S01.E01: Filmed Before a Live Studio Audience

[Ottis]

On 1/16/2021 at 11:31 AM, Racj82 said:

It's a 9 episode story so my assumption is that the story will evolve and this the beginning of the story. It so happens that we are in the mystery without the setup. Like many stories start.

That part I understood. The question was why this particular set up? If the villain named “Classic TV Man?” I suspect this particular set up is the vanity of the creator. Which would be disappointing. 

[kiddo82]

I have a theory that Wanda and Pietro would watch these old sitcoms in syndication as children in Sokovia.  Hence, if she is manifesting this reality herself, it's based on childhood memories of an idealized American life.  That or Tony Stark got ME TV at the Avengers compound.

Edited January 18, 2021 by kiddo82

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Ottis said:

That part I understood. The question was why this particular set up? If the villain named “Classic TV Man?” I suspect this particular set up is the vanity of the creator. Which would be disappointing. 

People escape into fantasy worlds all the time. Combine that with a powerful witch and it’s not a stretch. 

[Racj82]

12 hours ago, Ottis said:

That part I understood. The question was why this particular set up? If the villain named “Classic TV Man?” I suspect this particular set up is the vanity of the creator. Which would be disappointing. 

This era has always been seen or often portrayed in media as the good old days. Simpler times.  I do think this a construct created to make whatever Wanda is going through easier or more idealic. Even if the world she's was in were based in 70s or 80s, the shows started ushering more and more real life situations even if it may have been sanitized for tv. 

This is era really is not the good old days. It's was for white men and that's about it. 

I'm sure some of it that it's an era they could really have fun with as well. As viewers we have been forced to watch 80s and 90s presentation over and over again in recent years. I like looking at a different era. There may end up being no grander purpose but I love the style.

[Cotypubby]

I almost turned this off halfway through. This was literally just a cheesy 1950s sitcom. It felt like a bad joke that went on 25 mins too long. 

[tkc]

After thinking about the choking scene some more, I am thinking that might have been a manifestation in the "sitcom reality" of something occurring in Wanda's prime reality. That is, Wanda was actually hurting someone in her prime reality (which is currently submerged in her consciousness), with that someone's colleague trying to get Wanda to stop it, and this was coming out in her sitcom world as the situation with the Harts.

[Morrigan2575]

28 minutes ago, tkc said:

After thinking about the choking scene some more, I am thinking that might have been a manifestation in the "sitcom reality" of something occurring in Wanda's prime reality. That is, Wanda was actually hurting someone in her prime reality (which is currently submerged in her consciousness), with that someone's colleague trying to get Wanda to stop it, and this was coming out in her sitcom world as the situation with the Harts.

That was my thought during the scene. If this is a delusion/dream then it would make sense, especially the "stop it, stop it" line repeated.

[swanpride]

Yeah, I suspect the same thing. Also fits that immediately after the guests stopped pushing, gave Vision his promotion and were gone.

[Spaceman Spiff]

On 1/17/2021 at 10:29 AM, Zahdii said:

I've not watched a lot of the other Marvel movies, so this show is new to me.  I've never heard of Wanda or Vision before.  I've watched both Guardians of the Galaxy movies, a couple of Thor movies, Dr. Strange, and one of the Captain America movies.  I watched the Avengers: Infinity War.  On TV I watched both seasons of Peggy Carter.  

Disney+ does have a Marvel show called Legends, to tie into these TV shows. They are basically quick little recaps of each characters movie clips. So 1 for Wanda and 1 for Vision. Maybe 10 minutes each, but it may give you a bit more insight into the characters.

[FnkyChkn34]

I honestly have no idea what I just watched, and I loved it. 🙂  

I really can't even make much more of a comment than that, because it was so trippy and there was so much going on.  Everything is clearly not as it seems!  But I have no idea what really IS going on. 😉  The acting and the casting was great.  One scene (and I can't remember if it was this episode or the second), Paul Bettany really reminded me of his character from A Knight's Tale.  No complaints there!

[Britneys Scrunchie]

Quote

On 1/16/2021 at 12:39 PM, bethy said:

I laughed at this, then realized it might be a genuine question? Oh dear. *feels ancient* Kids today! 😂

I'm old enough to remember The Dick Van Dyke Show in reruns (and the wonder of those boxy remote controls) and loved the call backs to that set. Then the added weirdness was fun. I'm definitely intrigued.

 

Huh, this is not the reaction I expected. I’m in my 50s and well aware of what a remote is. I did not, however, watch the Dick Van Dyke show, but I thought remotes were not in wide use at the time that show aired. And did Van Dyke break the fourth wall? That’s what it seemed like Vision was doing, and given the scene flashed to a control room, it appeared to me more like he was using a device to communicate with someone in there. The device did not remind me of a remote...it actually reminded me of what Fury used to call to Captain Marvel. So I asked. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Britneys Scrunchie
Not everything needs an apostrophe.

[Kromm]

17 hours ago, tkc said:

After thinking about the choking scene some more, I am thinking that might have been a manifestation in the "sitcom reality" of something occurring in Wanda's prime reality. That is, Wanda was actually hurting someone in her prime reality (which is currently submerged in her consciousness), with that someone's colleague trying to get Wanda to stop it, and this was coming out in her sitcom world as the situation with the Harts.

This is my main contention with that theory. I do think Wanda is responsible for these people being trapped. I do think it's a shared delusion. I'm unsure if there's an outside force that drove this and/or tricked her, but suspect there is (per references in Episode 2). And I DO think that it's a shared delusion that's mostly (but not entirely) in physical form. So I do think Arthur Heart was actually choking.  But I still don't think Wanda caused it. There's a moment in Episode 2 where Wanda insists that she and Vision "don't mean any harm".  I think she honestly believes that, even while being willfully ignorant of the fact that it's HER powers that are enslaving people. And I think the key mover here is that her delusion is that life would be easier if it just followed a script. But they ARE still humans under what's been done to them. Mr. Heart may be forced to say certain lines and eat eggs and chocolate covered Strawberries at that table, but eating is at least half a subconscious act. So maybe he really choked.  Or maybe not. Maybe, just like Agnes showing up at a certain strategic point in Episode 2 to distract Wanda, this was more of the same. a way an outside force had to get Wanda over the hump of panicking at the lack of a proper backstory in this fake sitcom. In essence I think Wanda powers the delusion, but someone else wrote the scripts. 

[arc]

Early remote controls only had four buttons and mostly communicated with their TVs by ultrasonic tones. Certainly seemed like that’s what Vision was holding.

[bethy]

53 minutes ago, Britneys Scrunchie said:

Huh, this is not the reaction I expected. I’m in my 50s and well aware of what a remote is. I did not, however, watch the Dick Van Dyke show, but I thought remotes were not in wide use at the time that show aired. And did Van Dyke break the fourth wall? That’s what it seemed like Vision was doing, and given the scene flashed to a control room, it appeared to me more like he was using a device to communicate with someone in there. The device did not remind me of a remote...it actually reminded me of what Fury used to call to Captain Marvel. So I asked. 

Oh interesting. It sounds like we’re about the same age. I actually think I remember my grandmother having that same remote (though maybe I need to look more closely), but it was probably in the late 70s so you’re absolutely right that that wouldn’t have been in the DvD era. 

[Fukui San]

On 1/17/2021 at 4:38 PM, Jenniferbug said:

I'll admit I knew that Wanda and Vision were married at one point in the comics, so them becoming a couple in the MCU was something I was expecting. But I was surprised how quickly I bought into their relationship. When he asks her to stay with him in Infinity War, I bought into all their offscreen relationship development to the point that I was really sad at the end of Infinity War and also sad to see that Shuri hadn't somehow resurrected him at the end of  Endgame. They didn't get a lot of screen time or development, but I think Paul Bettany and Elizabeth Olsen have great chemistry and are talented enough to convey everything they need to with their limited time on screen. 

The chemistry and history of the Wanda/Vision pairing in the comics has been very well explored and had huge consequences across the comics universe. I don't know how much of how well it works on screen is because of that knowledge from comics fans or because of the execution itself from all involved. In contrast, the Hulk/Widow relationship came out of nowhere and was awkwardly rendered. I don't doubt that Mark Ruffalo and Scarlett Johanssen could have chemistry together in the right vehicle. Ultimately, I think Wanda/Vision together feels right because it's so baked into each character.

[Ilovepie]

7 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Disney+ does have a Marvel show called Legends, to tie into these TV shows. They are basically quick little recaps of each characters movie clips. So 1 for Wanda and 1 for Vision. Maybe 10 minutes each, but it may give you a bit more insight into the characters.

I did watch the Legends show to catch up with these characters, but I did not find it helpful in the least. There is not really any actual backstory there, it's just clips from the movies they were in, which taken out of context, does not make their story up to this point any clearer. I think if you need a recap for these characters you are better off just googling it on the internet, which I eventually did.

I am coming into this with very little MCU knowledge. My Marvel viewing is limited to the Thor movies, the Guardians movies, Black Panther, 20 minutes of Dr. Strange, 15 minutes of Ant Man, and Peggy Carter. I have seen zero Avengers movies, so I don't know if this is for me because all of the easter eggs are lost on me, reducing it to a mediocre 1950's sitcom. I know it's more than that, but I can't even begin to speculate on what these clues represent. Unlike The Mandalorian which works for the casual Star Wars viewer because it's a whole new character, I don't think this translates as well for people not up to date on the MCU due to the long backstory on Wanda and Vision. Not sure I'm going to continue this one....

[johntfs]

13 hours ago, Fukui San said:

The chemistry and history of the Wanda/Vision pairing in the comics has been very well explored and had huge consequences across the comics universe. I don't know how much of how well it works on screen is because of that knowledge from comics fans or because of the execution itself from all involved. In contrast, the Hulk/Widow relationship came out of nowhere and was awkwardly rendered. I don't doubt that Mark Ruffalo and Scarlett Johanssen could have chemistry together in the right vehicle. Ultimately, I think Wanda/Vision together feels right because it's so baked into each character.

One of the problems with Black Widow is that the movies kept throwing her various guys to see if she'd stick to them.  In Avengers she and Hawkeye seemed to be ex/current lovers.  In Winter Soldier they seemed to be trying to build something with her and Cap.  Then in Age of Ultron we learn that Hawkeye is happily married with a couple of kids (and another on the way) while now BW and Bruce are a couple.

[swanpride]

I actually ship her with Falcon.

[Linderhill]

On 1/19/2021 at 2:18 PM, arc said:

Early remote controls only had four buttons and mostly communicated with their TVs by ultrasonic tones. Certainly seemed like that’s what Vision was holding.

yes, my family had neighbors with a color Zenith TV with a remote control.  In contrast, my grandparents had a Zenith B/W TV with a remote control with only 2 buttons for volume and channels.

[paigow]

On 1/20/2021 at 4:39 AM, johntfs said:

In Winter Soldier they seemed to be trying to build something with her and Cap.

Disagree. She frequently suggested he date other SHIELD employees [a huge HR issue] and his neighbour [covert Agent Carter]. Besides, he was a bad kisser... 

[swanpride]

Yeah, Nat and Cap always acted just as friends. Nat had clearly no interest in him and Cap is still hung up over Peggy.

[Chaos Theory]

Ok I got onto my sisters Disney plus account.  I had no idea what I was actually in for considering I have been burnt out on Marvel movies for a long time now.  The closest I got were  the Netflix series that all got cancelled a few years ago.  I and agents of shield.   So I had no idea Wanda and and Vision we’re actual Marvel characters. 
 

Anywhoo. I thought this was funny even though I have also never been much of a sitcom person. And this era was before my time anyway.  I still know what they were going for and if hit enough that I got enough of the meta jokes.    
 

I actually do think when Wanda gets stressed and things get too out of control she lashes out “the chocking scene” but then tried to make it right.   She so wants this version of reality to be true.  

I think Vision is truly unaware it isn’t.

[Kromm]

On 1/25/2021 at 7:00 AM, Chaos Theory said:

And this era was before my time anyway.

I'll never fully get this objection. TVLand has made the concept of "before my time" a bit obsolete with sitcoms. I mean if this was really restricted to people who were around watching sitcoms DURING the 1950s, they likely wouldn't be Marvel movie fans. 

I fully understand not liking old TV conventions. But I don't think the blame for that is inherently an age thing. It's simply an exposure thing.  Less "it's before my time", more "I just never got to see it". 

On 1/25/2021 at 7:00 AM, Chaos Theory said:

I had no idea what I was actually in for considering I have been burnt out on Marvel movies for a long time now.  The closest I got were  the Netflix series that all got cancelled a few years ago.  I and agents of shield.   So I had no idea Wanda and and Vision we’re actual Marvel characters. 

Cool. Although they've been in the MCU since 2015, so I guess you've been away quite a while. 

On 1/25/2021 at 7:00 AM, Chaos Theory said:

I think Vision is truly unaware it isn’t.

Part of the debate is if he's actually real, but there are a couple of shades in the middle (like him maybe being a disconnected part of Wanda's mind). 

[Bruinsfan]

On 1/15/2021 at 9:14 AM, AimingforYoko said:

And I would definitely but that Stark toaster.

You could tell it was a Stark design because they didn't stop to wonder if they should while determining if they could. Open faced grilled cheese sandwiches? shudders in horror...

On 1/15/2021 at 8:35 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Oh yea and the only thing that would have made it better would be if James Spader had played Vision's boss.

Maybe they're saving him for when Wanda meets her in-laws?

[WatchrTina]

On 1/18/2021 at 9:49 AM, Cotypubby said:

I almost turned this off halfway through.

I *did* turn it off.  But then I read some good reviews that made me go back and finish it and then I immediately watched three more episodes.  I'm glad I did but -- that being said -- they really took a chance by kicking things off with this strange, slow episode.  It did NOT (initially) intrigue me enough to want to see more to solve the mystery of what is really happening.

 

On 1/19/2021 at 12:21 PM, Britneys Scrunchie said:

did Van Dyke break the fourth wall? That’s what it seemed like Vision was doing, and given the scene flashed to a control room

No, the old Dick van Dyke Show did NOT break the fourth wall.  We watched Rob and Laura Petrie's life strictly as invisible spectators to their marriage and Rob's career.  That being said, the lead character played by Dick van Dyke -- Rob Petrie -- was a TV writer for the fictional Alan Brady Show, so we regularly saw depictions of what went on behind-the-scenes of THAT show-within-the-show.  So they broke the 4th wall of the fictional show that the character Rob wrote for, but not the 4th wall of the actual Dick van Dyke Show.  (It's complicated, isn't it?)

Edited February 16, 2021 by WatchrTina

[arc]

51 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

That being said, the lead character played by Dick van Dyke -- Rob Petrie -- was a TV writer for the fictional Alan Brady Show, so we regularly saw depictions of what went on behind-the-scenes of THAT show-within-the-show.  So they broke the 4th wall of the fictional show that the character Rob wrote for, but not the 4th wall of the actual Dick van Dyke Show.  (It's complicated, isn't it?)

Did they use the inner show for meta-commentary? I still think about the episode of Community where the cast put on a little play and the writers used that opportunity to make Chevy Chase’s character do all the stuff they hated (and liked) about the real Chevy.

[WatchrTina]

25 minutes ago, arc said:

Did they use the inner show for meta-commentary?

I don't recall that . . . I don't recall much about the show at all other than Mary Tyler Moore could really rock a pair of capri pants and her saying tearfully "Oh Rob!" on many occasions.    I also recall the infamous episode where Laura gets interviewed and lets slip that Alan Brady wears a toupee.  But the show was really focused on the relationships between Rob and his wife or Rob and his co-workers.  As such, I don't think we (the viewers) actually "saw" the Alan Brady show very often.

Meanwhile, back on topic, I do think that WandaVision has done a great job mimicking the vibe of the old Dick van Dyke show while being just "off" enough to create cognitive dissonance.

[Anela]

On 1/19/2021 at 6:53 AM, Spaceman Spiff said:

Disney+ does have a Marvel show called Legends, to tie into these TV shows. They are basically quick little recaps of each characters movie clips. So 1 for Wanda and 1 for Vision. Maybe 10 minutes each, but it may give you a bit more insight into the characters.

I'll look that up, because I'm not familiar with most of the characters or back-stories, either. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 1/25/2021 at 11:44 PM, Kromm said:

I'll never fully get this objection. TVLand has made the concept of "before my time" a bit obsolete with sitcoms. I mean if this was really restricted to people who were around watching sitcoms DURING the 1950s, they likely wouldn't be Marvel movie fans. 

I fully understand not liking old TV conventions. But I don't think the blame for that is inherently an age thing. It's simply an exposure thing.  Less "it's before my time", more "I just never got to see it". 

In some cases, it might also be an I-can't-relate thing, rather than a convention thing.

Even if "Leave It to Beaver" or "Green Acres" were remade in the style of a modern sitcom, the concept of a stereotypically bland middle class family hanging in the suburbs(?) or a  NYC couple getting into shenanigans in a rural community probably isn't going to resonate the same way with all audiences today.

[Ailianna]

I just watched this again and noticed something. During the choking scene, several people said that Mrs. Hart's "stop that" seemed to almost break character and become a plea to Wanda. But before he started choking, Mr. Hart kept looking right at Wanda and repeatedly--and heatedly--asking her "Why did you come here?" That, on this rewatch, seemed even more like he was asking Wanda why she came to Westview and did this to them (although the second part is unsaid). It really struck me that he was trying to break control and ask her, and made me think, for the first time, that Wanda may have caused him to choke, though I do think that was subconscious. Before I thought she was too slow to react, but not that she had lodged the food in his throat to stop him asking her that question.