S01.E10: Day Twenty-Three

[paulvdb]

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On the island, Leah feels closer than ever to proving that someone’s behind their predicament. Post-rescue, fed up with the tight-lipped authorities, Leah goes searching for her own answers.

 

[Cranberry]

Argh cliffhanger! I hope this show is popular enough to get renewed. Reviews are certainly good enough (90% fresh critic score and 92% fresh audience score on Rotten Tomatoes right now), but in these times of Covid, good reviews and popularity aren't always enough (I'm still mad about that Teenage Bounty Hunters cancellation).

Thoughts after finishing the series:

Fatin is my favorite of the girls, hands down. All the most memorable lines came from her. I love how unrepentant she is about everything.

I always enjoy stories of closeted Christian girls embracing who they really are, so I like Shelby a lot too, and I'm always a sucker for that enemies to lovers trope. I'm worried about Shelby now that she's gone all shaved head and manic, though.

I did not call Nora as the confederate. I thought it was Shelby and that Leah accusing her relatively early on was meant to throw us off the scent. Never really bought Dot as the confederate even after we saw her meeting with Gretchen. She seemed genuinely upset about not getting her Hawaiian vacation, and I couldn't see her dad knowingly setting her up for something like that; he wanted her to relax after caring for him for so long. Nora makes a lot of sense, though, with all of her knowledge and that constant journaling, plus her ability to blend into the background. 

If we do get a second season, I hope it still follows the girls and we only see occasional glimpses of the all-boys control group.

[peachmangosteen]

On 12/12/2020 at 9:48 PM, Cranberry said:

I did not call Nora as the confederate.

I'm super proud of myself because I did call her and I never get anything right lol. I started getting suspicious about her pretty early since they had Rachel talking about 'what happened with Nora' and then we just kept not seeing Nora flashbacks. I suspected she was the other confederate in ep 7. Until then I thought it was probably Dot, even though that seemed too obvious.

I did not expect that ending. I loved Leah's "What the fuck?" to the camera.

I hope they don't plan on featuring The Twilight of Adam in a potential season 2. I'm not sure I'm really interested in watching a season of teenage boys being fake stranded on an island. I'm with you @Cranberry in hoping we still follow the girls and just get glimpses into the boys' experiment.

[peachmangosteen]

Oh also, I really didn't expect for Nora's boyfriend to be dead. I legit gasped. And then to find out it was Gretchen's son who killed him. Like what lol? There is way too much going on!

[Cementhead]

I just finished this last night and have just a few random thoughts.  I really, really enjoyed watching the girls on the island and their individual flashback scenes, too.  But I really, really hated all of the 'Experiment' nonsense which took me out of the show every single time and caused me to strain my eyes from rolling them into the back of my head so much.  Every time Rachel Griffiths went off on "the patriarchy" I wondered how she was even able to take her role seriously enough to get through filming.  I also discovered I am not a big fan of Rachel Griffiths.

Anyways... since the whole point of this show and it's raison d'être IS 'The Experiment,' I don't expect any follow up season to be different so this is my problem and not the series' problem.  And even though angsty, teen dramas are my favourite of all the genres, this one and its battle against The Patriarchy (!!!) was a little  too absurd for me and had me mutter a few times to myself, "I'm too old for this shit."

Kudos to all of the young actresses though, most of them were stellar!  Hoping for bright careers ahead.

Oh, and I am really thankful to the show for introducing me to Robyn Hitchcock's cover of The Ghost in You.  Beautiful!

Edited December 17, 2020 by Cementhead
added one last thought

[bilgistic]

2 hours ago, Cementhead said:

I just finished this last night and have just a few random thoughts.  I really, really enjoyed watching the girls on the island and their individual flashback scenes, too.  But I really, really hated all of the 'Experiment' nonsense which took me out of the show every single time and caused me to strain my eyes from rolling them into the back of my head so much.  Every time Rachel Griffiths went off on "the patriarchy" I wondered how she was even able to take her role seriously enough to get through filming.  I also discovered I am not a big fan of Rachel Griffiths.

I fully agree with all of this. I kept thinking that the show would've been so much better if company behind the "experiment" was more of a shadowy background conspiracy. I have residual Rachel Griffiths hate from Six Feet Under, and I found her to be such a cartoony mustache-twirling villain here that I couldn't take her seriously at all.

There absolutely should've been more of a resolution because there's currently no plan for nor guarantee of a second season. I'm pretty mad that there are so many unanswered questions after ten freaking episodes.

I definitely don't want to see anything about a boys' island. This show was touted as "Lord of the Flies meets Lost", so we don't need a literal Lord of the Flies. And if the "experiment" is supposed to be proof of how women-led societies function better than male-led societies, why would there even be a boys' island?

Finally, the actress that played Nora bugged me to no end. I guess that she was supposed to be playing someone on the spectrum, but it just came off as really bad acting. It was unnatural and watching her and her boyfriend(?) together was cringeworthy.

Edited December 17, 2020 by bilgistic

[Cementhead]

30 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

Finally, the actress that played Nora bugged me to no end. I guess that she was supposed to be playing someone on the spectrum, but it just came off as really bad acting. It was unnatural and watching her and her boyfriend(?) together was cringeworthy.

I agree.  And it would have served the actress much better for the viewers to have known this character trait much earlier on in the show because without knowing that for most of the episodes, she just came across as being really bad at acting.  I really had a head scratching moment when I looked up all of their bios on IMDB and hers boasts of being professionally trained at a couple drama schools and winning a scholarship and I was like, "huh?" 

[Mabinogia]

7 hours ago, bilgistic said:

There absolutely should've been more of a resolution because there's currently no plan for nor guarantee of a second season. I'm pretty mad that there are so many unanswered questions after ten freaking episodes.

I thought this was one of those one off limited series so imagine my disappointment when this episode ended with a freaking cliffhanger!

I, too, have no interest in seeing the Boys Island since this show is trying so very hard to be feminist which means the Boys Island is going to be a hot mess of every macho toxic masculinity stereotype on Earth. Ugh. No interest in that. I still don't get how this experiment will prove a female ruled world would be any better since the one female we've seen with any power, Gretchen, is a horrible human who is basically torturing a bunch of fairly screwed up young women, risking their lives and treating them like lab rats all to prove that women are better than to stoop to exactly that. WTF?

I was really hoping to find out that the whole feminist thing was a cover for whatever her real plan was but it does look like she's actually being truthful about what her experiment is about. 

I did get very invested in the girls. While I ended up liking most of them less as the show went on there were a couple I grew to like enough to want to carry on, if the show comes back while I still remember what happened in it. I wouldn't rewatch this season though so the show doesn't have long before I do forget about it. 

[Straycat80]

I really liked this series. It was The Truman Show with angsty teenagers trying to survive on a deserted island. I thought there was too much sex for teenagers but maybe I’m just getting old and out of touch. 
I liked all the backstories. The acting was good. The Nora character was annoying tho. I’m assuming her and the boyfriend were on the spectrum but didn’t really get the connection of why she wanted to put herself in the role of the confederate. 
I was disappointed there was a cliffhanger. They didn’t answer a lot of questions I had. I had flashbacks to ‘Lost’.

IF there is a second season with boys on the beach I would probably watch it. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Straycat80

[raven]

On 12/17/2020 at 10:02 AM, Cementhead said:

I really, really enjoyed watching the girls on the island and their individual flashback scenes, too.  But I really, really hated all of the 'Experiment' nonsense which took me out of the show every single time and caused me to strain my eyes from rolling them into the back of my head so much.  Every time Rachel Griffiths went off on "the patriarchy" I wondered how she was even able to take her role seriously enough to get through filming.  I also discovered I am not a big fan of Rachel Griffiths.

Totally agree.    Rachel Griffiths and the experiment were easily the weakest part of the show for me.

I stuck with it even though I thought the first episode was pretty bad - tropes all over the place and the acting was not good.   Glad I hung in there because then I saw the tropes were deliberate and our characters more complicated.  Nearly all of the "teens" looked well over 25 to me so I just had to roll with that but that's probably just me being my own old self, heh.

Fatin and Dot ended up being my favorites.   Fatin for just being herself and loving it and Dot for being such a good leader, which I would not have called from the beginning.    I did call Shelby and Toni getting together; I've seen too many "enemies are sexually attracted to each other" stories.    I think Shelby's bond with Martha was because she saw something in her of her friend who committed suicide.   Martha killing the goat broke my heart for her and I wanted to see more of her post reaction to that.  I hoped she was picturing the face of the abusive doctor each time she slammed the rock down. 

I ended up feeling terribly for Leah; not just because that gross older guy but because of the gaslighting.  I loved that Shelby just wanted to give her the note telling her that she was right.

The cliffhanger - I didn't expect that.   We can assume Rachel lost her hand due to the shark attack and maybe Nora was killed just trying to save her?  We don't know what happened to Martha and why Shelby is on crutches, etc. 

I did not expect Nora to be the second plant so good job, show.   Gretchen really preyed on her which made me dislike Gretchen even more.  I had assumed that Gretchen was lying about her son being in the frat at first but I guess that would be too easy for Nora to check so now I think it was the truth.  

I went in with Lord of the Flies expectations and this ended up being much different.  I did like it but wish the cliffhanger were different - maybe the girls getting out of their cells and seeing the control experiment together or something. 

[bilgistic]

I'm still mad about nothing being resolved. This was promoted pretty heavily on Amazon Prime TV (or whatever they're calling it now), just as Utopia was, which was cancelled after one season.

[EdnasEdibles]

So considering we intentionally weren’t shown the boys faces, do we think the boyfriend is there on Boy Island? I don’t believe the murdering son backstory at all. 

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, EdnasEdibles said:

So considering we intentionally weren’t shown the boys faces, do we think the boyfriend is there on Boy Island? I don’t believe the murdering son backstory at all. 

Oh, good spec. I mean, that's a bit much but I could see them going there. Or perhaps Rachel Griffith's (I forgot the character's name lol) son is there.

[rideashire]

I got super sucked into this show and was surprised how invested I felt in all the girls. I didn't really dislike any of them and I enjoyed all their individual episodes, but this last one was absolutely the rotten apple in a bunch of otherwise good eps. Like someone else here I also kept waiting for the conspiracy to be revealed because it can't just be what they say it's about, but....I guess it is? Which is dissappointing. If you're gonna go all secret agency then may as well give them seriously screwed up motives or what's the point?

Head conspiracy chick was annoying as hell and her backstory felt out of place.

Not enough resolution but I'm not sorry I watched the season. It was a good way to pass the time stuck in my house.

Regarding nora, I liked her but her way of speaking was confusing at first because it was never addressed, yet she was clearly much different from her sister, but then I guess that's just how it is in life sometimes. People are different and we don't get to know why.

[qtpye]

So, I loved a lot of the teenage girl characters but this whole "I want to create a gynotopia" thing is just embarrassingly bad. It almost feels like a bad parody.

I loved Fatin.  It was so refreshing to see a female character who liked sex for the sake of sex and not be slut shamed or turned into a clown, like Samantha from Sex In The City.

[Evie]

I liked all of the girls and loved the stuff on the island but agree that the experiment part was weak. I don't mind the idea of it but the Rachel Griffiths character was so crazy, I don't see how she even got people to invest. Then there is the fact that even if this experiment proved that women were better leaders, her research was based on a boatload of lies. Who would even take it seriously? Also, I don't understand how those involved didn't fear criminal charges and lawsuits. Trying to make the girls feel guilty enough not to talk doesn't seem like much of a plan. 

I don't really want to watch Boy Island but glimpses would be okay and there is still so much to mine with the girls. I wonder if the experiment ended with the shark attack or if the girls spent more time on the island? It feels like they spent more time there. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Evie

[bilgistic]

It has been renewed for season 2.

https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/109606-the-wilds-in-the-media/?do=findComment&comment=6508561

[Vivigirl10]

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There absolutely should've been more of a resolution because there's currently no plan for nor guarantee of a second season. I'm pretty mad that there are so many unanswered questions after ten freaking episodes.

If there's one thing I hate, it's an unresolved ending.  Did they run out of ideas and couldn't figure out how to explain a bunch of things so they just wrapped it up and called it a day?  That's how it feels.  After I finished, later in the night I decided I must have missed an entire episode.  Nope.

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We can assume Rachel lost her hand due to the shark attack and maybe Nora was killed just trying to save her?  We don't know what happened to Martha and why Shelby is on crutches, etc. 

Why were they all so beat up?  Was it from rescuing Rachel?  How did Rachel's hand heal up completely and so neatly by that point?  Why didn't we get to see them rescued from the island?  I also need an explanation for how this was all presented to the parents.  I know from the one video chat Leah's parents understood she had been sent to a summer camp and not just away for the weekend.  But how did Rachel Griffith's character expect to have the girls not tell about the horrifying ordeal they had actually been put through? What good was all this interrogating going to do?  

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I guess that she was supposed to be playing someone on the spectrum, but it just came off as really bad acting. 

OMG, the extra slow way of speaking.  I kept waiting for her back story to include an explanation of her being on the spectrum but it never came.

I also don't understand why Shelby was suddenly presented as this multiple personality lunatic with a shaved head.  Her behavior and history seemed pretty clear cut.  

I'd also like to know how Toni was included in this posh trip.

So many questions, and not enough material to even come to your own conclusions about things.  

 

[bilgistic]

1 hour ago, Kiki620 said:

OMG, the extra slow way of speaking.  I kept waiting for her back story to include an explanation of her being on the spectrum but it never came.

That stilted speech pattern just isn't true to life. Obviously, I don't know why that choice was made, but it doesn't seem like they did any research.

[Mabinogia]

6 hours ago, Kiki620 said:

But how did Rachel Griffith's character expect to have the girls not tell about the horrifying ordeal they had actually been put through? What good was all this interrogating going to do?  

I really don't get what the purpose of the interrogating is. If the whole experiment was meant to show that women would make better leaders in an emergency situation or whatever, now that they are rescued what is Gretchen trying to prove? That women do better at the Prisoner's Dilemma test? Or is it because we don't know the final big twist of what happened out there (I'm guessing one of the girls we haven't seen in the prison/basement place was killed ruining Gretchen's whole "girl power" message because really. I still hope that's not what she's trying to prove because I don't think your gender is what makes you a good or bad person/leader, it's way more complicated than that. 

[raven]

I also wanted to know who sent Leah's birth certificate to the author.   I had thought it was Leah's male friend but when they showed their confrontation, I believed him when he said he didn't do it.  I wonder if it was Gretchen?  Who else could it be?

[Mabinogia]

40 minutes ago, raven said:

I also wanted to know who sent Leah's birth certificate to the author.   I had thought it was Leah's male friend but when they showed their confrontation, I believed him when he said he didn't do it.  I wonder if it was Gretchen?  Who else could it be?

My money is on Gretchen as a way to kind of push Leah over the edge so that her parents would then want to send her to the retreat. Why Gretchen wanted someone that paranoid and unhinged on her Girls Rule Boys Drool Island is beyond me though. I mean, if I was setting up an experiment to prove girls make better leaders than boys I'd have gone with a more elite crew than the island of misfit toys she ended up with. Which makes me think maybe the experiment was more about pushing people to their breaking point and showing women are more resilient when broken than men?

I just feel like she picked a very odd assortment of fairly broken young women. The only one who really makes sense to me, if Gretchen is telling the truth about her thesis, is the one who cared for her dying father since that experience gave her very strong protective instincts and she has had to fight to survive in a way the others don't. The rest are a bulimic diver, a supposedly split personality closeted gay princess, a rich girl with the worlds shittiest (without actually being abusive) parents, a girl who is in denial about being molested and a complete obsessive paranoid and a young woman with some serious rage issues. 

Not who I would pick to build a society but certainly who I would pick if I wanted to see how far unhinged people can be pushed before they snap. 

[Umbelina]

21 hours ago, raven said:

I also wanted to know who sent Leah's birth certificate to the author.   I had thought it was Leah's male friend but when they showed their confrontation, I believed him when he said he didn't do it.  I wonder if it was Gretchen?  Who else could it be?

I never thought of that, but great guess!

Well, I randomly watched the first episode around 9 last night.  I couldn't stop watching and finished around 5AM this morning, so?  I'd say I liked it.

Good point about why choose such damaged teens if you are trying to prove "women are better at running things peacefully?"  

That said, I believed in all of those girls, and thought their stories were both interesting and true to life.  Teen years ARE often angsty, so none of it felt fake to me, actually the opposite really.  We weren't seeing surface, especially as the show went on, we were seeing the inside feelings and problems that they had, as we all have in one way or another...revealed.

Thrilled that we are getting a second season, and I doubt it will be about the boys (that much) but more about Leah and others, perhaps even trying to help them, or expose this whole thing.

 

[Mabinogia]

41 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

That said, I believed in all of those girls, and thought their stories were both interesting and true to life.  Teen years ARE often angsty, so none of it felt fake to me, actually the opposite really.  We weren't seeing surface, especially as the show went on, we were seeing the inside feelings and problems that they had, as we all have in one way or another...revealed.

I do think all the teens were very well developed characters. I think it says a lot that I at some point loved and hated each one of them as their layers got pulled away. I was riveted by everything going on on the island. The changing alliances, the highs and lows as they dealt with small successes (finding luggage, making fire, seeing that plane) and gut-wrenching lows (pretty much everything else), their assumptions about each other changing as they get to know each other. The only sour bit for me was the "secretly gay lashes out at gays to hide own gayness" story with Shelby. It's tired and I wish they had gone a different route with a character I otherwise found very complex. 

The weak part of the story was clearly the "experiment" side of things. If it is what Gretchen says it is, it just doesn't make any sense. If it's not, they should have dropped a hint that it wasn't in the finale, rather than seeming to confirm it's a "female vs male" experiment by showing us Boys Island. 

I'm on the fence about whether I feel they showed their hand with the experiment too soon, but I appreciate that they didn't pull the rug out from under us at the end by making the show something different than what we'd been watching the whole time. 

[Umbelina]

35 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

The only sour bit for me was the "secretly gay lashes out at gays to hide own gayness" story with Shelby. It's tired and I wish they had gone a different route with a character I otherwise found very complex. 

I thought they were going for a different trope, that her super religious dad was sexually abusing her.

I actually liked that story, having lived in a place with plenty of girls (or boys) who rejected their natures because of religion.  If they had left it at just the island resolution, I might agree with you, but when they added in the story of the young girl she'd loved?  It worked for me.

I appreciated the depth and changes and revelations of complex and whole humans, bit by bit.  I hated some, admired some, liked some, but by the end?  After seeing their stories evolve?  I liked them all, or at least felt I understood them all.

As far as the holes in the experiment, initially I let it go, because I was enjoying the show.  Now that I know there is a season 2?  I expect to see those holes plugged.

[bilgistic]

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I thought they were going for a different trope, that her super religious dad was sexually abusing her.

I'm waiting for that to come out in season 2. I definitely got weird, "too-close" vibes from Shelby's father.

[Mabinogia]

18 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I definitely got weird, "too-close" vibes from Shelby's father.

I got the "you are my property and therefore if I want to have you I can" vibe off him. He made my skin crawl. But since they are going with sexual abuse for Martha I'm not sure they plan on going there with Shelby as well. I wish they had gone there with Shelby instead of Martha though. Martha is such a pure soul that I don't want her to have been abused in any way, but, since they are all "damaged" in some way, I'm guessing she was and just repressed it. 

[kdm07]

On 12/19/2020 at 9:22 AM, raven said:

Nearly all of the "teens" looked well over 25 to me so I just had to roll with that but that's probably just me being my own old self, heh.

Funnily enough the oldest of the cast is the actress who plays Fatin, who's 24/25. The rest turned 21 or 22 this year.

The first episode had me intrigued but by the time I got to episode 3, I was hooked. Each girl is complex and fascinating in their own right and seeing them have to battle their internal issues as well as being on the island was a great viewing experience. Each back story was intriguing and well done but I want to give a special shout out to the actress who plays Shelby. That pageant performance after she finds out her friend died was some of the best acting I saw on the show.

I'm still not sure how Gretchen thinks she'll get away with this especially now that Shelby's caught on too (how exactly did she do that?). Eventually, she'll get caught and nothing these girls could do/have done will excuse this "experiment" of hers.

Are both Nora and Martha dead since we didn't see either of their standalone episodes? Season 2 will hopefully answer that and how Shelby's now got a dissociative personality? We also saw an island with boys but tbh, I don't want to follow their stories as we still have so much unanswered with the girls.

[chaifan]

I did a semi-slow binge of this over 5 days.  I was pretty much hooked in the beginning, loved the twist of this being an experiment, and was really looking forward to Rachel Griffith's character.  But in the end, Gretchen was low point for me.  The whole experiment just has so many holes in it, and the more time they spent on the experiment plot the more ridiculous it became.  I could buy it if it ended with the girls being rescued, and then maybe their crisis/grief counselors would be Rachel's plants.  But this whole fake FBI interrogation set up seems like there was no way out even if it didn't go horribly bad at every turn.  And how entirely fucked up are these girls going to be, for the rest of their lives?  What type of exit strategy existed in the first place?  None of it makes any sense, and that's on the writers/producers.

The whole thing with Nora's boyfriend dying, Rachel's son being the kid responsible, meeting at the jail, etc. is so incredibly implausible.  But for it to be some long con set up for Nora to be part of the experiment seems even more implausible.  That would not only mean the boyfriend was an actor the whole time, but had to rely on Nora breaking up with him, then wanting him back, then just randomly checking his instagram and finding out he "died" that way.  Not to mention paying off jail staff to pretend Rachel's "son" was in jail, faking someone's death, etc. 

I also agree with other posts that question why Rachel would choose a bunch of seriously damaged girls to prove her experiment.  Is her premise "if a group of truly fucked up teenage girls can make things work under these circumstances, imagine what fully rational, sane, grown women could do"?  I do see why the "control" group of boys had to exist though, if this was to be an actual experiment, and I was glad they showed that.

All this is a shame, because I liked the overall premise, and I liked the character development of all of the girls.  The biggest problem is that this was only 10 episodes and left an incredibly unfinished story.  They should have planned for 15 episodes, and resolved the big questions, leaving the 2nd season to cover what happens when they all leave the bunker and how Rachel has somehow convinced/bribed/blackmailed them all into not ratting her out.  In the good old days of 22 episode seasons (remember those?) this would have been the mid-season cliffhanger to bring us all back after the holidays.  I think I'd be more forgiving if Ep. 10 wasn't the end of the season.  So now we have to wait what, a year, for season 2?  By then hopefully I'll be able to go out and have a social life again (fingers crossed) and won't be spending so much time in front of the tv.  So it's a crapshoot if I'll care enough by that point to tune back in.

On 12/24/2020 at 8:06 PM, kdm07 said:

Are both Nora and Martha dead since we didn't see either of their standalone episodes?

Nora's episode was Ep. 10 and Martha's episode was Ep. 9.  They varied a bit in format from the others, but all the flashbacks in those episodes were on them.  We just didn't see them in the bunker. 

Oh, and a word of advice for whoever creates the episode titles... since this series was dumped all at once, coming to a site like this let everyone know instantly they were on the island for 23 days (at most).  Please find a less spoilery way of titling your episodes. 

[Cranberry]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Oh, and a word of advice for whoever creates the episode titles... since this series was dumped all at once, coming to a site like this let everyone know instantly they were on the island for 23 days (at most).  Please find a less spoilery way of titling your episodes. 

Nobody here comes up with the titles; those are the official titles. Standard/required title format on this site is SXX.EXX: Official Title.

 

On 12/21/2020 at 12:04 PM, Kiki620 said:

Why were they all so beat up?  Was it from rescuing Rachel?  How did Rachel's hand heal up completely and so neatly by that point?  Why didn't we get to see them rescued from the island?  

I expect that season two will continue in the same format -- that we didn't see the girls being rescued yet because there's still a lot of island story to come. I hope they make the experiment stuff make more sense, though, because that was the weakest part of the show for me, just as it seems it was for most viewers.

[chaifan]

8 hours ago, Cranberry said:

Nobody here comes up with the titles; those are the official titles. Standard/required title format on this site is SXX.EXX: Official Title.

Yeah, that was my little message to the show people - the writers or whoever create the episode titles.  I know Primetime is stuck with the titles the show gives them.  With more and more shows getting put out on streaming all at once, and being able to see the titles of all episodes of a season at once (on the streaming site, on sites like this, IMDB, etc.), I think the show people need to realize an episode title can be a bit of a spoiler in and of itself. 

[Shermie]

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And it would have served the actress much better for the viewers to have known this character trait much earlier on in the show because without knowing that for most of the episodes, she just came across as being really bad at acting. 

I completely disagree. I thought it was pretty obvious she was on the spectrum almost from the beginning. It was an interesting contrast to her twin sister. I know someone on the spectrum who speaks almost exactly like that.

In fact, I disagree with a lot of the criticism here. It seems some were expecting a CW-esque teen drama. Even the crazy premise of lying to people to get them to send their teens away for a month says more about the parents of the teens than it does about Gretchen. Some parents had good motives, thinking their daughter was getting a fun trip. But several were intentionally sending them off for reprogramming, in whatever format that was relevant to their circumstance. 

This is exactly the kind of show I love - twisty, turny, unexpected, with great characterization. I agree with those who said they liked and disliked all the girls at some point, which is a hallmark of good writing and acting. I really wanted - and still want - to see what happens next. Is the concept of secret experimentation creepy and unmanageable in the long term? Yes, but history tells us it's not new.

FWIW, I don't think they look 25, maybe 20. I give the hair/makeup people huge props for the slow changes in their looks - sunburn, peeling skin, zits, frizzy hair, random scrapes. Very realistic compared to some lesser shows that choose to show trauma by placing an artful scar over the brow on an otherwise flawless face.

So glad this has been renewed. We got lots of answers, and new questions. Looking forward to seeing the rescue, how the injuries happened, more back strikes, when did Shelby shave her head, what the girls do next.

[Mabinogia]

3 hours ago, Shermie said:

I give the hair/makeup people huge props for the slow changes in their looks - sunburn, peeling skin, zits, frizzy hair, random scrapes. Very realistic compared to some lesser shows that choose to show trauma by placing an artful scar over the brow on an otherwise flawless face.

So agree. I found the passage of time regarding their appearance very realistic and helped create the sense of desperation and suffering. Which again makes this all being some experiment just to show women are better than men horrible, because, as a fair skinned person, all I kept thinking was, will they be suing Gretchen when one or more of them get sin cancer from her irresponsible, dangerous experiment? 

I was glad to hear this got renewed because, despite my concerns about the experiment side of things, I really am invested in the girls and want to see more of them. I thought all the actresses (none of whom I had seen before (the island girls that is)) were very good and made the characters seem real to me, which is what I need to make me care about them. I care, even the ones I don't much like, I still want to know what happened to them. This is one of the better young adult shows I've seen in a long time. 

[weightyghost]

On 12/25/2020 at 11:27 PM, chaifan said:

since this series was dumped all at once, coming to a site like this let everyone know instantly they were on the island for 23 days (at most). 

Do you mean at least? Given we still don't know when/how they were removed from the island so it's at any point after 23 days (I think at one point they mentioned the experiment being 12 weeks though given the girls nearly starved after 3 weeks, that seems like a stretch that they'd make it that far). 

[Umbelina]

11 minutes ago, weightyghost said:

Do you mean at least? Given we still don't know when/how they were removed from the island so it's at any point after 23 days (I think at one point they mentioned the experiment being 12 weeks though given the girls nearly starved after 3 weeks, that seems like a stretch that they'd make it that far). 

I'm guessing they had to get them off after the shark attack.  I doubt she would have survived losing a hand on that island.  Then there is her missing sister.  I don't know if she died trying to save her, or is just somewhere else because she was a confederate?  

[chaifan]

16 minutes ago, weightyghost said:

Do you mean at least? Given we still don't know when/how they were removed from the island so it's at any point after 23 days (I think at one point they mentioned the experiment being 12 weeks though given the girls nearly starved after 3 weeks, that seems like a stretch that they'd make it that far). 

Oh, you're right.  I was thinking "at most" because I was putting day 23 as the day of the interviews in the bunker.  So not knowing how long they were in the bunker I said "at most" 23 days on the island.  But looking back on it, to follow the pattern of the Episode Titles, "Day 23" would have to be day 23 on the island. 

Eh, either way, it's still a bit spoilery.  Also not very creative.  So demerits either way.  😉 

I know we won't know for certain for quite some time (probably close to a year 'til season 2, if we're lucky), but my guess is that if the shark really is how Rachel loses her hand, they're going to have to be "rescued" at that point.  I can do a little handwaiving here and there, but there's no way they could expect us to buy her recovering from that without real medical attention. 

So that brings us to, how long have they been in the bunker? 

ETA:  Umbelina - you and I were thinking the same thing re: Rachel's hand, you posted while I was still typing!  🙂

Edited December 28, 2020 by chaifan

[chaifan]

4 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I'm guessing they had to get them off after the shark attack.  I doubt she would have survived losing a hand on that island.  Then there is her missing sister.  I don't know if she died trying to save her, or is just somewhere else because she was a confederate?  

I think I missed something... is Nora missing?  If so, when was that said?   I know we haven't seen her (or Martha) in the bunker, so is this just an assumption based on that or did someone mention she's actually missing? 

[peachmangosteen]

12 hours ago, chaifan said:

I know we won't know for certain for quite some time (probably close to a year 'til season 2, if we're lucky), but my guess is that if the shark really is how Rachel loses her hand, they're going to have to be "rescued" at that point.  I can do a little handwaiving here and there, but there's no way they could expect us to buy her recovering from that without real medical attention. 

I think they must have been on the island for at least a bit longer after the shark attack because Shelby apparently became a split personality and shaved her head before they were rescued.

Quote

So that brings us to, how long have they been in the bunker? 

I was assuming they hadn't been in the bunker long as it appeared they were giving their initial interviews. But thinking about it did they maybe say how long it had been? I feel like there was a convo between maybe Rachel Griffith's and the pretend FBI guy about how they'd been apart and I'm thinking maybe they said how long but I'm not sure.

12 hours ago, chaifan said:

I think I missed something... is Nora missing?  If so, when was that said?   I know we haven't seen her (or Martha) in the bunker, so is this just an assumption based on that or did someone mention she's actually missing? 

In Rachel's interview she said something like, 'what happened to Nora' but we don't know exactly what happened. 

[Umbelina]

8 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I think they must have been on the island for at least a bit longer after the shark attack because Shelby apparently became a split personality and shaved her head before they were rescued.

I don't think that caused Shelby's split.  She was unhappy when the plane went over them, and the others were celebrating being rescued.  I don't think she wanted to go back to her "real" life.  On the island, she'd finally become her true self, in love with another girl.  Back home, it would all come back, the pretentions, the judgements, the forced routines.

I think she shaved her head as a way to stop going back to her pageant expected beauty and burdens.  Anyway, that's how I took it all.  The "show" was gone, and she was determined to stay Shelby now.  I think that's part of the reason she saw through "the show."  She'd been putting on a show for so long, she recognized it, and slipped the note to Leah saying "you were right."

8 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I was assuming they hadn't been in the bunker long as it appeared they were giving their initial interviews. But thinking about it did they maybe say how long it had been? I feel like there was a convo between maybe Rachel Griffith's and the pretend FBI guy about how they'd been apart and I'm thinking maybe they said how long but I'm not sure.

I think they'd been there a while.  Rachel's hand amputation was pretty healed up, no bandages, and most of them showed signs of going stir crazy, several asking "how much longer?" etc.  

Of course, I don't know either, but I felt like it had been a couple of weeks at least.

8 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

In Rachel's interview she said something like, 'what happened to Nora' but we don't know exactly what happened. 

We do know we didn't see her being interviewed by the fake FBI team.  I think that's significant, especially when we saw her running towards her sister and the shark.

They could go either way though.  Nora is somewhere else, since she was a confederate, and they either need to seriously deprogram her to get her to keep her mouth shut about that, or, she died from the shark, or in the attempt to save her sister.  She, I suppose, could also have had some kind of complete breakdown after watching the shark bite off her sister's hand, and knowing it was her fault.  

Either way?  She wasn't shown, and all the others were.  I doubt that was a mistake.  (or hell, am I misremembering?  I don't think so, but sleeping has become an issue for me, so perhaps...)

20 hours ago, chaifan said:

I think I missed something... is Nora missing?  If so, when was that said?   I know we haven't seen her (or Martha) in the bunker, so is this just an assumption based on that or did someone mention she's actually missing? 

4. Where Nora is.

The implication is found out and “in custody” (Faber asks Rachel if she wants to talk about what happened with her sister, not to), but could be worse.

5. What happened to Martha.

The implication is dead (her flashback episode comes from Young being tasked with sorting through a box of her things before recommending to Gretchen that she should just write Martha’s family an enormous check), but it could be clearer.

https://collider.com/the-wilds-ending-explained-season-2-questions/

Dang!  I forgot about Martha!  Now I need to watch the finale again!

ETA I googled that article above after replying to most of the quotes here, not before.  It's a pretty good article, not just that stand alone quote that reminded me we didn't see Martha either, and I didn't take that scene above as proof of her death, but looking back...maybe.

ETA again.

I just realized that they had a perfect excuse to "rescue" them, pretend the pilot notified authorities and it was a routine rescue, possibly military, not the people running "the camp vacation."

(I still think she had that pilot killed)

Edited December 29, 2020 by Umbelina

[Slovenly Muse]

I just caught up with this show after a few recommendations, and I have some pretty mixed feelings! I really liked the island stuff - more than I expected to. I think the story of the girls trying to make it work in a desperate situation on an island was compelling, enhanced even more by the flashbacks to their lives before the island, so we see how their individual struggles inform their behaviour, the way they treat each other, the way they approach survival... I thought it was fascinating and really well-drawn from a psychological and sociological point of view (and great storytelling).

And then, as others have mentioned, there was the experiment plot. WTF was that? It seems like they had a GREAT premise for a show, and then bumped it up to a comedically absurd level with this experiment nonsense. It makes no sense at all and is insulting. Gretchen and a couple of young women have been victimized by the patriarchy so much that they decide to do something about it... by victimizing other young women to an even greater degree? No one, no matter how feminist, could think that is feminist! And it just doesn't track. From her conversation with Leah's parents, it sounds like the families don't know what the girls are going through. So how can she possibly ever discuss this experiment in academic circles without getting into a shitload of legal trouble? She doesn't have informed consent from the participants or their families. Her experiment has resulted in at least one death and one mutilation (of minors!), as well as severe psychological trauma. How is she going to reunite these girls with their families without anyone figuring out that they were lied to and exploited? Making the girls feel guilty so they "won't sue" just doesn't cut it. What about when the parents get their kids back from their "therapeutic summer retreat" and find out what was happening all those weeks while the nice therapist lady was videoconferencing them about how great their daughter was doing? And then there is the control group. The names "Twilight of Adam" and "Dawn of Eve" perfectly convey the immense bias baked into the very premise of the experiment. It's just stupid! Even calling them "Camp Adam" and "Camp Eve" would have been at least a NOD to impartiality. If the NAMING process is biased so heavily towards the girls, how much faith can we really have in the selection process, intervention decisions, or the interpretation of the results? Everything about this experiment seems like they're just shooting themselves in the foot if they attempt to share their findings with ANYONE in possession of half a brain.

Which brings me to Nora. I appreciate that they wanted to keep the "confederate" a bit mysterious, but Nora makes no sense. This was clearly a decision based on "shock value" rather than story logic. DOT makes sense - she's lost a parent and is vulnerable and potentially seeking a new parental figure, this could keep her off CPS's radar, and she's enough of a survival nut to willingly sign up for this nightmare. But Nora? No way. I'm sorry... her not-boyfriend was killed by toxic masculinity (i.e., Gretchen's son), and her response is to torture other girls, including her sister? I just don't buy it. Not only that, but I don't buy that someone as naive as Nora wouldn't be completely shattered to learn that Jeanette, the one who was supposed to look after them and be the adult, has actually DIED and Gretchen is not going to intervene! If the death of the person who is arguably most crucial to the experiment's safety and success is not enough to warrant an intervention, whose death would be? Any of them could die at any time, and Gretchen would likely still let the experiment take its course. There's no way Nora wouldn't realize that once they lost Jeanette! Why is she still calmly playing along and reassuring Leah that she's "safe?" This makes no sense to me. And unlike Dot, whose participation in this could be seen as empowering, Nora comes across as an idiot being exploited by Gretchen, which is just not narratively satisfying.

So they took a great idea for a psychological drama, and ruined it by adding this meta layer of stupid, poorly-thought-out conspiracy stuff. I do not want to watch this dumb non-scientific experiment conducted by apathetic morons who embody the worst stereotypes about "radical feminists" wanting to take over the world from men. I want to watch the gripping, heartfelt TV dramatization of the RESULTS of the experiment. Could I just have that, please?

[chaifan]

21 hours ago, Slovenly Muse said:

And then, as others have mentioned, there was the experiment plot. WTF was that? It seems like they had a GREAT premise for a show, and then bumped it up to a comedically absurd level with this experiment nonsense. It makes no sense at all and is insulting.

 

I am totally, ok mostly, with you on this.  I initially liked the experiment twist on the "stranded on a desert island" plot.  Without it, this really would have been teenage Lost.  But the experiment plot line was so poorly thought out and executed.  I agree with every fault you point out.  Could it have been written more plausibly?  I think so, and that is what is disappointing.  When the experiment was first revealed at the end of Ep. 1, my reaction was "oooh, this is different, where are they going to go with this?".  Not "oh, come on, there's no possible way this will ever work."   It looked like they had a good idea and then they wrote themselves into a proverbial corner with every episode getting more and more ridiculous in the details.  I honestly wonder what goes on in the writing room on shows like this.  Is there no one who will speak up and say, "oh, come on!", has everyone convinced themselves this is a great plot line?  I don't get it.

And I didn't even consider the biased/sexist implications of the naming of the two groups.  Good catch!  

 

 

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

I initially liked the experiment twist on the "stranded on a desert island" plot.

Same here. Love the idea that some scientist is behind the crash and that it was all orchestrated for an experiment. It's just what the experiment is that I have issues with. Taking a group of unstable teenager girls is no way to prove that women are better than men. 

 

On 1/7/2021 at 7:40 PM, Slovenly Muse said:

Gretchen and a couple of young women have been victimized by the patriarchy so much that they decide to do something about it... by victimizing other young women to an even greater degree?

And this is the worst of it. Gretchen is trying to prove that women will join together and build a better society, but she is proving this by torturing and actually facilitating in the death of other women. When whatsherface died, even though it was an accident, that should have been the end of it, if Gretchen's hypothosis that women would build a more caring, less "alpha" society, but instead she carries on because she's as horrible as the men she thinks are so terrible. 

I totally agree that Gretchen is far too biased for anyone to take her findings seriously. 

The island stuff though is great. I would have been okay with this being a straight up female Lord of the Flies rather than Lost with all the people watching and mystery and don't trust anyone conspiracy stuff. 

[Cotypubby]

I’m not sure I agree that the experiment being faulty means the writers did a bad job because I thought that was the point? That Rachel Griffith’s character has basically gone off the deep end, possibly exacerbated by her sons actions, and recruited several people to follow her “mission”, but that us the viewers know it’s all screwed up and failing and doesn’t really make sense. I didn’t get the sense that we were supposed to be on her side.

I did like that they included the glimpse of the Twilight of Adam island because of course she would need a control group to prove her theory. 
 

re: Leah’s birth certificate, I just assumed that since the writer was someone famous another of his fans (or exes) had seen them together and did a little research into Leah’s background. I don’t think there was any kind of conspiracy around it, that was just Leah’s mind going crazy.

[Mabinogia]

14 minutes ago, Cotypubby said:

I’m not sure I agree that the experiment being faulty means the writers did a bad job because I thought that was the point? That Rachel Griffith’s character has basically gone off the deep end, possibly exacerbated by her sons actions, and recruited several people to follow her “mission”, but that us the viewers know it’s all screwed up and failing and doesn’t really make sense. I didn’t get the sense that we were supposed to be on her side.

That does make sense. Gretchen does come across as unhinged. I'm just curious who would fund that nutjob. lol

[Umbelina]

20 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

I’m not sure I agree that the experiment being faulty means the writers did a bad job because I thought that was the point? That Rachel Griffith’s character has basically gone off the deep end, possibly exacerbated by her sons actions, and recruited several people to follow her “mission”, but that us the viewers know it’s all screwed up and failing and doesn’t really make sense. I didn’t get the sense that we were supposed to be on her side.

I did like that they included the glimpse of the Twilight of Adam island because of course she would need a control group to prove her theory. 
 

re: Leah’s birth certificate, I just assumed that since the writer was someone famous another of his fans (or exes) had seen them together and did a little research into Leah’s background. I don’t think there was any kind of conspiracy around it, that was just Leah’s mind going crazy.

Oh I think Gretchen did send the birth certificate, and I'm still not sure that was her son who killed Nora's boyfriend.  That could have all been set up to get Nora on board.

Gretchen is definitely nuts, and people do contribute to people who are nuts.  More after next quote.

 

20 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

That does make sense. Gretchen does come across as unhinged. I'm just curious who would fund that nutjob. lol

Lots of people.  Having money doesn't mean you are rational.

Anyway, I can fan wank this into being, so I'm sure the writers can as well, now that they know there is a second season.  I expect they will make things more plausible.  

[Riplet68]

I enjoyed the show, but am not happy they didn’t answer ANYTHING!  All the “mysteries” they introduced had no resolutions. We have no idea what happened to Rachel’s hand, Martha and Norah, why Shelby is so unhinged all of a sudden.  They may have wrote themselves into a corner with Rachel’s hand. For it to be healed a significant amount of time needs to have passed. Yeah, shark attack can explain some things, but not the time elapse. 
I didn’t catch what they were talking about with “3 hours” after Leah fell in the trap.  Can anyone enlighten me?

[Umbelina]

6 hours ago, Riplet68 said:

I enjoyed the show, but am not happy they didn’t answer ANYTHING!  All the “mysteries” they introduced had no resolutions. We have no idea what happened to Rachel’s hand, Martha and Norah, why Shelby is so unhinged all of a sudden.  They may have wrote themselves into a corner with Rachel’s hand. For it to be healed a significant amount of time needs to have passed. Yeah, shark attack can explain some things, but not the time elapse. 
I didn’t catch what they were talking about with “3 hours” after Leah fell in the trap.  Can anyone enlighten me?

Of course the shark took Rachel's hand, but I don't think Shelby is unhinged at all.  I think she's fully "hinged" probably for the first time in her life.  She showed that by that note to Leah.  I think she shaved her head in the ultimate rejection of ever being a pretty little pageant girl who follows her parent's rules anymore, and that includes their closed and strict religious beliefs.

I didn't notice the 3 hours of being significant, but you could be right!  I just thought it took her that long to get out of the hole.  ????

Luckily we have a season 2, so we'll find out about Martha and Norah.  My guess is the shark took Norah when she tried to rescue her sister, but I could be way off there.  Martha is a complete mystery to me, she was obviously having a break down on the island, remembering the sexual abuse, killing the goat (the physical therapy guy?)  I hope she didn't kill herself, but that's my best guess, perhaps while in confinement there?

I am really looking forward to season 2.  The whole mystery of it is interesting to me, but honestly, I just loved the character study of these complex and diverse young women.

[jackjill89]

I enjoyed this series for the most part. I really care about the girls and their journeys. The Twilight of Adam? Not so much. I want to see what happened on the island until they were rescued and what is going on now. 

I was very intrigued by the idea that kids thought they were going away on a weekend retreat (to Hawaii, though? for a weekend? too far away for a weekend trek), but parents knew they were gone for the summer. However, not all parents thought that, or did they? The choosing of the girls for this trip seemed contrived. The plotting of this seemed sloppy. 

Gretchen, the puppet master pulling all the strings, is a few fries short of a Happy Meal, and this study of hers has devolved into a full-scale disaster. I do not like her character at all. That whole part, what could have been very interesting, is not. 

I want to keep the focus on the girls. 

[emma675]

I finally finished up the episodes this week and I have mixed feelings. 

I loved the backstories and the girl's experiences on the island, but I thought the reason that they were all there in the first place was the weakest part of the series. How on earth did Gretchen explain to each of the girl's parents a plausible enough story that would make them fine with sending their daughters away for seemingly months? Fatin, Dot, and Toni's situations I get, sadly no one cares or would notice. But the others? Did Gretchen have a different story for each family? And there is no way in hell not one of those girls or families is not going to sue. Rachel lost a hand, Martha appears to be dead, Shelby's had a mental break, and who knows what happened to Nora. Some grand explanation is not going to magically satisfy every single person. 

I think Gretchen and Leah were my least favorites. Fatin, Dot, Toni, and Shelby were my faves and I was neutral on Rachel, Nora, and Martha.

I'm interested in season 2 but only if the focus remains on the girls, I don't give a damn about watching a boys version of this.

And I'm a little irritated by the lack of answers and cliffhangers. The producers had no idea they were getting a season 2 when they filmed the last episode. If they hadn't gotten picked up would we have just been left hanging? That really sucks and doesn't make me trust the showrunners all that much.

[Mabinogia]

15 hours ago, emma675 said:

I think Gretchen and Leah were my least favorites. Fatin, Dot, Toni, and Shelby were my faves and I was neutral on Rachel, Nora, and Martha.

It's interesting because I initially couldn't stand Fatin and had no interest in Dot at all but they are my two favorites by the end. I always hated Leah from the moment I met her and that never changed, same with Gretchen, I don't find her "ideas" at all interesting. She is a dangerous combo of insane and pathetic to me. I like Nora. I'd put her and Martha as tier two with Rachel, Toni and Shelby close behind.

Honestly the only one of the girls I still dislike and don't care at all about is Leah.  At least with Gretchen I very much want to see her humiliated by her colleagues when they laugh at her pathetic attempt at an experiment, or killed by any one of the girls (justifiable homicide IMO), but with Leah I'd be perfectly find if she just vanished and they didn't even address it.

I very much want to see the rest of them again and continue their stories though.