E01.02: Shock and Delight

[ursula]

I think it also showed that Anthony was putting himself under pressure to be the perfect Lord Bridgetown. I don’t know when his Dad passed but it felt recent and it looked like Daphne’s season was his first big test so he took the first guy that proposed.

 

That said I don’t think Anthony’s overbearing scrutiny of her suitors would have been such a problem without Lady W fanning the flames.

[Growsonwalls]

3 hours ago, bijoux said:

The only reason I can think of is to establish Anthony’s bossiness and high handedness. But as for him as a character or Daphne, no, those actions don't make sense. Especially him blowing the lid when Daphne was beset with suitors. Like, let her chose between them or weed out the undesirables. There were at least 30 dudes there. Even if you discard 90% of them, that's still three as potential prospects. 

While Daphne is very low on my list of charavters I cared about, I appreciated that they showed her truly enjoying the attention she was getting. Good for her. 

I appreciated the message that a guy could be a totally gross creep but as long as he was "respectable" enough he was considered a catch while a girl couldn't have an eyelash out of place. But the whole storyline seemed contrived. Daphne would have lots of suitors to choose from. Her ovaries weren't drying up. And Anthony and Daphne have a good relationship. Why would Anthony want to marry Daphne off to the creepiest of the lot?

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I have no idea why Anthony was so fixated on Daphne marrying Berbrooke. The guy was a creep and Daphne is pretty, young and comes from a good family. She would have found someone more appealing on her own.

Anthony is a bit of a “rake” himself, and so are his many friends. He wants to find someone “better” for his sister, so he looks outside his own circle, which is why he had to research Berbrooke. Berbrooke had succeeded in hiding his neglect of his offspring —which probably means he has hidden a lot of other bad qualities too——men don’t tend to only sexually harass or assault once. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, Growsonwalls said:

I appreciated the message that a guy could be a totally gross creep but as long as he was "respectable" enough he was considered a catch while a girl couldn't have an eyelash out of place. But the whole storyline seemed contrived. Daphne would have lots of suitors to choose from. Her ovaries weren't drying up. And Anthony and Daphne have a good relationship. Why would Anthony want to marry Daphne off to the creepiest of the lot?

Anthony was also working with insider knowledge gained from him hanging out at his gentlemen's club.  He knows which ones are heavy gamblers with tons of debt, the ones who have a mistress they won't give up, the ones who are alcoholics, and the ones who may have picked up a venereal disease.  As far as he knows, Berbrooke is not one of those men.  He doesn't see Berbrooke as a creep, he sees him as a gentleman with few vices.  Anthony is looking to set Daphne up with a gentleman who will take care of her and their children with no scandal.  

[Atlanta]

53 minutes ago, ursula said:

I think it also showed that Anthony was putting himself under pressure to be the perfect Lord Bridgetown. I don’t know when his Dad passed but it felt recent and it looked like Daphne’s season was his first big test so he took the first guy that proposed.

 

That said I don’t think Anthony’s overbearing scrutiny of her suitors would have been such a problem without Lady W fanning the flames.

Not really spoiling anything here, but just in case.

Spoiler

His dad passed when he was 18 from a bee sting. You see hints of bees flying around and on clothes.

 

[bijoux]

These are taken from bridgertonseries Instagram account. Instagram isn't embedding for some reason, and I think these need to be part of this thread. 

[Growsonwalls]

I mean if Mama Bridgerton had 8 kids you'd think the little ones would figure it out ...

[bijoux]

Well, Eloise does say she thought a person needed to be married, which the Bridgerton parents were. 😁

Book spoilers on the topic from a later book, but I don't think they really give away any plot. 

Spoiler

We find out Eloise and Francesca pooled their pin money and bribed a maid to tell them. I certainly hope we get to see this. 

 

[Featherhat]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Anthony was also working with insider knowledge gained from him hanging out at his gentlemen's club.  He knows which ones are heavy gamblers with tons of debt, the ones who have a mistress they won't give up, the ones who are alcoholics, and the ones who may have picked up a venereal disease.  As far as he knows, Berbrooke is not one of those men.  He doesn't see Berbrooke as a creep, he sees him as a gentleman with few vices.  Anthony is looking to set Daphne up with a gentleman who will take care of her and their children with no scandal.  

That's true. Although the fact that his sister was so against the marriage and wouldn't even consider it should have given him pause. She wasn't on her 5th season with no other options she was newly out and had plenty of opportunities yet even if she wasn't always the Diamond. They are supposed to be close, he could have at least talked to her about why she was so dead set against it. 

I think it's important for Anthony's character to set up the pressures he feels as head of the Bridgerton family and de facto father figure to many of his younger siblings but He kind of swung from one extreme to the other with Daphne in the first few episodes and it also didn't make sense with some of the Sienna stuff later. 

Spoiler

And it rankled because in the book he's something of an arse but he let Daphne turn down four suitors including Not Blackmailer/Attacker Nigel even though she was never the Diamond and that showed he cared about her as more than responsibility. 

 

[bijoux]

Taking the Daphne and Anthony bit to the book thread. 

[shapeshifter]

49 minutes ago, bijoux said:

These are taken from bridgertonseries Instagram account. Instagram isn't embedding for some reason, and I think these need to be part of this thread. 

 

The funniest part for me was right after this when Mum says, "I hope you two aren't encouraging improper conversation?!"
to which Colin replies: "Not at all, Mother. In fact, we were just heading off to take our sticks out,"
to which the horrified mum declares "Colin Bridgerton!"
and to which he mock-innocently responds while his brother smirks: "a round of fencing."

[bijoux]

HonestlyI think all parts of this sequence were the funniest part. 

[Featherhat]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

I mean if Mama Bridgerton had 8 kids you'd think the little ones would figure it out ...

It's not like they're in a small house or one room where they're likely to hear their parents having sex. The older boys would probably find out at Eton and get embarrassed when they realised their parents were having sex but for the girls, sometimes all they'd be told was that their mother was "busy" and not going out in society and then a few months later they'd be presented with another baby sibling and not told any details, like many kids today. 

Violet managed to talk to her 18 year old about marrying a man neither of them wanted her to by saying her children will be her great love without going into the details or expressing anything about the awful parts of having sex with Nigel. 

It fits with Eloise thinking a baby is something that comes along once you're married without any details.

[sugarbaker design]

I'm two episodes in and I just don't want to watch anymore.  I don't like shows that feature bland, colorless leads like the actors who play Simon and Daphne (they're gorgeous, and lovely to look at, but they have no charisma whatsoever), and relegate exciting vibrant characters like Eloise and Penelope to supporting status.  I was also looking forward to seeing Jonathan Bailey, but all I've seen so far is a momentary schtup against a tree, and constant grimacing towards his family. 

[PRgal]

I'm only halfway through this episode and goodness, the previous Duke of Hastings was SUCH AN @$$hole, even for his time.   

Edited December 31, 2020 by PRgal

[Growsonwalls]

23 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I'm only halfway through this episode and goodness, the previous Duke of Hastings was SUCH AN @$$hole, even for his time.   

I was kind of thinking ... maybe a better storyline for why Simon doesn;t want kids is because his mother killed herself trying to bear children. Giving birth was very dangerous for women at the time, and it's totally believable that an unwanted, unloved child would associate women giving birth with death and misery.

That's not the way the writers or the author of the books went but I thought it might have been more plausible.

[nodorothyparker]

On 12/26/2020 at 7:22 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Rege-Jean Page is devilishly handsome, I loved his portrayal of Chicken George in the 2016 Roots remake.

Thank you! That's where I've seen him before. Now I don't have to google it.

Everything in the scenes of Eloise and Penelope trying to figure out where babies come from was such a hoot it almost makes me forget how much I hate that hair and makeup can't seem to figure out anything at all to do with Eloise's hair.

This episode gelled a lot better than its predecessor, as is often the case once you get all the exposition of a pilot out of the way. Lady Danbury was FIERCE in her scene of telling young neglected Simon how it's a conscious choice to make yourself someone worth noticing. The dialogue suggested that Terrible Daddy Duke thought it his wife's failing that it took her many years to produce one living male child and then promptly died before she could give him a spare. But as is often the case in these kinds of stories, he fails to realize that it's all on him either not spending some of his considerable fortune hiring the best tutors and staff to help his son become more "acceptable" to him or remarry and try again for a more acceptable heir. Sure, it's then kind of self-defeating for Simon to vow to end the family line out of some sense of vengeance on someone who's dead and will never really know the difference, but that's one of those realizations he may very well come to on his own once he's lived a little.

Still having trouble telling the Bridgerton brothers apart, but didn't Mama Bridgerton make it clear last episode that Anthony had screwed up Daphne's chances by being so nitpicky and overbearing out of the gate? He's clearly taking the role of family head in his father's absence VERY seriously and it seemed like he overcorrected in then jumping on the first proposal he couldn't immediately name an objection to that came her way. But ye gods, how uncomfortable was all that dickering over being able to force Daphne into marrying him or ruin her reputation over something he did? While I'm still not terribly bowled over by the actress, I do think this is doing a nice job of illustrating what a one-sided meat market the marriage scene in their society really was. She's a commodity and she knows it.

 

[Growsonwalls]

The actress they got for Lady Berbrooke has a remarkable resemblance to her "son" Nigel. Really good casting on the part of the show.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

The actress they got for Lady Berbrooke has a remarkable resemblance to her "son" Nigel. Really good casting on the part of the show.

I noticed that too. And though we complained about having trouble telling the Bridgerton brothers apart, that's a good thing too.

[Growsonwalls]

1 minute ago, shapeshifter said:

I noticed that too. And though we complained about having trouble telling the Bridgerton brothers apart, that's a good thing too.

Also the little Simons look a lot like Rege Jean Page. 

I also think Rege Jean Page portrays the slight speech impediment well. 

[Kim0820]

On 12/26/2020 at 9:31 PM, Enero said:

 The Duke’s father was a POS. I thought maybe he’d come around after hearing his son speak without stammering, but I guess the “damage” had been done with him having difficulty speaking. What a horrible man. 

 

I thought that too; why wasn't he glad his son had defeated the stammer?  

The last scene shows the father recognized that his son would be a fine Duke.  Now only to hear that he did not intend to continue the family tree. 

[Unraveled]

I think there was something more detail to why the late Duke was so adamant that his heir be perfect. He seemed to apply that the Dukedom was recent. (Or perhaps I heard wrong?) He talked about honor and how all future Dukes must be absolutely perfect.

I think it's only been recent that stammering did not mean that you were stupid. So while the Simon's father was an ass, I can see why he thought that his son's stammer meant that he wasn't so intelligent. Heck, even King George VI, had a stammer that he had to overcome. (If anyone remembers "The King's Speech.")

[Growsonwalls]

16 minutes ago, Unraveled said:

I think there was something more detail to why the late Duke was so adamant that his heir be perfect. He seemed to apply that the Dukedom was recent. (Or perhaps I heard wrong?) He talked about honor and how all future Dukes must be absolutely perfect.

I think it's only been recent that stammering did not mean that you were stupid. So while the Simon's father was an ass, I can see why he thought that his son's stammer meant that he wasn't so intelligent. Heck, even King George VI, had a stammer that he had to overcome. (If anyone remembers "The King's Speech.")

There used to be a huge social stigma about speech impediments. Thomas Jefferson had one and apparently was so self-conscious about it he didn't give public spoken speeches but rather wrote his speeches. With Bertie/George VI, one could argue his speech impediment killed him because he was told to smoke constantly to hide the stammer.

[WatchrTina]

On 12/31/2020 at 5:48 PM, nodorothyparker said:

didn't Mama Bridgerton make it clear last episode that Anthony had screwed up Daphne's chances by being so nitpicky and overbearing out of the gate? He's clearly taking the role of family head in his father's absence VERY seriously and it seemed like he overcorrected in then jumping on the first proposal he couldn't immediately name an objection to that came her way.

I found this episode really frustrating for that very reason.  Anthony's determination that Daphne should settle on the creepy dude was clearly due to his trying to salve his own ego after his mother chastises him for not being more proactive in finding a suitable match for Daphne (and for actually being an obstruction to the process).  But I nearly got whiplash from his sudden about-face on that topic (as well as his brutal break-up with his mistress.)  Furthermore, 180 degrees from wrong is often also wrong.  Having decided to take up the cause of getting Daphne settled, he ignored her feelings (and even ignored all the attention she was getting as a result of her having been noticed by the Duke -- which he should have known increased her prospects) and he just tried to force her to settle for the first man to make an offer.  What a douche.  Were it not for his long-standing mistress, Anthony's angry reaction to the Duke's courting of Daphne would have made me wonder if he was secretly gay and in love with the Duke.

I also have to register my disgust at the way creepy dude genuinely believed that he could blackmail Daphne into marrying him by threatening to ruin her reputation.  Why should anyone in society believe anything he said about Daphne -- a woman who rejected his proposals?  I sort of hate the suggestion that any scorned man could ruin a woman by merely gossiping about her having been spotted NEAR a dark walk (one that I presume was known for secret assignations) in the unchaperoned company of a man.  The hubris of his position -- "Marry me or I'll ruin you" -- was infuriating but what was worse was that it looked like it was actually going to work.

Edited January 5, 2021 by WatchrTina

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Why should anyone in society believe anything he said about Daphne -- a woman who rejected his proposals?  I sort of hate the suggestion that any scorned man could ruin a woman by merely gossiping about her

It still works that way when a woman tries to get a man prosecuted for rape.

[Roseanna]

On 12/30/2020 at 7:51 PM, Growsonwalls said:

Daphne would have lots of suitors to choose from. Her ovaries weren't drying up.

But how about her dowry? Having so many siblings was no advantage, as the fortune left from eldest son must be divided between them.

Come to think about, what about Marina's dowry? One simply can't explain her sudden favor on the basis of Lady W alone.

[Ohiopirate02]

18 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

But how about her dowry? Having so many siblings was no advantage, as the fortune left from eldest son must be divided between them.

Come to think about, what about Marina's dowry? One simply can't explain her sudden favor on the basis of Lady W alone.

The Bridgertons are wealthy enough where none of the younger sons have to work and all of the girls have substantial dowries.  We are in romance fantasyland here.  Daphne struggles to find a suitable husband because Anthony is a notorious rake.  Having older brothers is a double-edged sword.  One one hand, they keep the fortune hunters and undesirable suitors away; on the other, they can scare off respectable men.

Marina has some kind of dowry.  The Fs have taken her in for the season because Lord F was bribed by Marina's father.  She would not have been beset by that many suitor if she did not have something to back it up.  Looks and Lady W's approval will only do so much.

[Roseanna]

58 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The Bridgertons are wealthy enough where none of the younger sons have to work and all of the girls have substantial dowries.  We are in romance fantasyland here.

I would like more variety. Money problems can cause interesting plots. And men who *do* something like Captain Wentworth in Austen's Persuasion are more interesting than men who just enjoy themselves.

[tennisgurl]

Simon's dad really was an epic level piece of shit, no wonder he couldn't be bothered to even pretend to care when he died. I am guessing that it was really his side that was having the fertility problems and not his wife, but like an asshole, he blamed everything on her for "failing" him. Of course now Simon has his vow to never marry ever ever and that sets up our drama for when he and Daphne fall in love for real. Its a Regency romance, there always have to be complications as to why the main couple cant just get married already when that's half their job in society. 

The gossip all being passed from person to person about Berbrooke was great, especially ending with all the men in the club giving him very judgmental looks while he reads the latest from Lady Whistledown exposing him for the dishonorable dick he is. 

The modern music in Regency style still continues to be fun, I am enjoying trying to pick up what songs are being played at the many dances and teas and such. 

Marina is really living the whole tragic Regency romance isn't she? She fell in love, her lover went to war, and now she is left here unwed and pregnant with her city relatives she hardly knows, forced to hide her "condition". What are the odds that her love/baby daddy dies in the war? At least Penelope is sympathetic to her plight, even if she doesn't really understand what her plight actually is. Man, Penelope and Eloise trying to figure out where babies come from is a trip, ladies really had no clue how this whole baby making thing worked. I guess the wedding night and everything following it was just a whole long string of surprises. 

I am already getting all suspicious of who Lady Whistledown actually is. After not getting right on Gossip Girl I want to make better guesses this time around. 

Poor Penelope is really quite cute and charming, even if she isn't the traditionally beautiful willowy women that was fashionable at the time, its too bad her mother insists on dressing her like a banana nut cake. 

[Ohiopirate02]

18 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

I would like more variety. Money problems can cause interesting plots. And men who *do* something like Captain Wentworth in Austen's Persuasion are more interesting than men who just enjoy themselves.

I would as well.  I prefer my heroes to actually do something in my books.  But that is not the world Julia Quinn created.  

 

5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

The gossip all being passed from person to person about Berbrooke was great, especially ending with all the men in the club giving him very judgmental looks while he reads the latest from Lady Whistledown exposing him for the dishonorable dick he is. 

 

That was a good scene.  I want to believe they are all snubbing him because Berbrooke took liberties with someone under his employ.  But, I know his biggest sin is not financially supporting his child.

[TV Diva Queen]

On 12/28/2020 at 7:51 AM, Maya said:

I’m confused about Daphne and Simon’s fake romance. Why are the eligible girls and their mothers leaving him alone now? Suitors are now flocking to Daphne so it’s obviously not considered a done deal. 

I agree with the person who said the lead actress is lacking something. When I first saw her, I thought the character was supposed to be bland but apparently not.

I don't think it would be lady-like to pursue a man that's spoken for.  While on the other hand.....well we know how that goes.  😉

[iwantcookies]

I need to read the books. 
 

[Harvey]

On 1/12/2021 at 1:18 AM, iwantcookies said:

I need to read the books. 
 

I just started today, and gosh, It was hard to put it down. I agreed with myself that I will read 10-15 pages a day...instead I was able to tear myself apart from it at page 50. It's just really well-written.

[Blakeston]

On 1/4/2021 at 12:27 PM, Kim0820 said:

I thought that too; why wasn't he glad his son had defeated the stammer?  

Little Simon was speaking perfectly at first, but once his father gave him a withering stare, he started stammering again. The father wasn't going to accept anything less than perfection.

On 1/4/2021 at 3:42 PM, Unraveled said:

I think there was something more detail to why the late Duke was so adamant that his heir be perfect. He seemed to apply that the Dukedom was recent. (Or perhaps I heard wrong?) He talked about honor and how all future Dukes must be absolutely perfect.

My understanding is that the concept of the show is that it takes place in a fantasy world where Queen Charlotte did what she could to bring about racial equality, and gave lofty positions to people of color.

It sounded like the queen had bestowed the Hastings title onto Simon's family recently, and Simon's father felt extra pressure to keep his public image perfect.

As for Daphne - if the Dark Walk was a notorious "lovers lane" type of place, and being seen anywhere near a man there was so scandalous, I really don't buy that she'd absent-mindedly go strolling there during a ball. There would be a lot of pressure on her not to go off on her own at all.

[GaT]

On 12/30/2020 at 11:26 AM, bijoux said:

These are taken from bridgertonseries Instagram account. Instagram isn't embedding for some reason, and I think these need to be part of this thread. 

 

On 12/30/2020 at 12:28 PM, shapeshifter said:

The funniest part for me was right after this when Mum says, "I hope you two aren't encouraging improper conversation?!"
to which Colin replies: "Not at all, Mother. In fact, we were just heading off to take our sticks out,"
to which the horrified mum declares "Colin Bridgerton!"
and to which he mock-innocently responds while his brother smirks: "a round of fencing."

I loved this whole sequence, right through the "sticks" conversation."have you ever visited a farm?" LOL

[GaT]

I'm on a re-watch & this whole conversation is just as funny the 2nd time around 

[Cherry Cola]

What a fun show! 

Daphne in the blue dress in the drawing room makes me think of Wendy from Peter Pan. 

I love the colors and costumes and the Duke! 

[Camera One]

I'm beginning to like the characters a bit more.  I don't find Daphne bland, though I do like seeing a bit of everyone else as well.  I liked Mrs. Bridgerton taking control of the situation.  I even felt a bit for Anthony when he realized what a mess he had created.  Berbrooke was very odious with his pushiness, though I wonder if it was that easy to threaten to ruin the reputation of a young woman at that time, did it happen a lot? 

Simon's backstory was nicely done, and mostly made me like Lady Danbury in helping him to gain his confidence.  It's a little hard to relate to Simon's father caring that much about the Hastings line continuing, but I can see how that would be supremely important to men back then with titles.  

Who's Simon sleeping around with?  It was amusing how he and Anthony totally didn't get bruises from getting hit in the boxing ring.  What happens in the ring stays in the ring, I guess.

[katha]

I rewatched this in the aftermath of season two and the interaction with Anthony and Violet now has this additional layer of meaning, which is cool. She rightly knocks him down for the way he mishandled Daphne's debut and he doesn't say anything after she has rebuked him. But Bailey gives it a nuance of hurt and holding himself back from saying something more that now reads as more complex. It has this echo of "Oh, now you want to be a parent? But when dad died you emotionally checked out for years and I had to take charge of the family when I was a teenager." But of course he doesn't say it because blaming her for her grief would be cruel. The tense and complex relationship between Anthony and Violet is really enriched by the second season, I think. It's always messy when children take on the role of parents for whatever reason and it can't ever be completely restored to the way it was before. Which I think Bailey and Gemmel play beautifully in the second season, the hurt and confusion of that.