S05.E09: The Tipping Point

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

 

Not a big Candiace fan but I think it is a bit pointless to say if Chris hadn't been there last season, then she would have assaulted Ashley. Chris was there, no assault took place and we don't know if cooler heads would have prevailed. 

 

If the point of having a knife is to stab someone I guess I just never see the intent when someone has a butter knife.  I just don't see how anyone is going to do much bodily harm by stabbing someone else with a butter knife.  I never took the butter knife situation that seriously, I think she was more likely to THROW it at Ashley, which could definitely be problematic, but I don't think she was going to stab Ashley with it.  IIRC, Candace had picked up the butter knife to pretend it was a microphone or to punctuate her words.  

I don't think I liked Candace at all back then, so I don't think my view was colored by pro-Candace bias.  I didn't think Candace was going to use that butter knife combatively to stab anyone.  

[RealReality]

That was better and worse than I thought.

Monique came off looking like a rabid dog.  I'm embarrassed for her.

Also the "I blacked out" defense is overplayed girl.  You didn't black out because you remember every single thing that happened, so just stop it.  I think the most chilling thing was Monique having some time to cool down and calmly plotting a way to get out so she could attack Candace again.  To me, that was scary because she not only wanted to go back at Candace again, she had to strategically think through how she was going to get out of the backroom of a winery she had never been to before.  

I'm used to that behavior on bad girls club, but not from a married woman over 30 with three kids.  Having said that, I don't think Monique is some badass Mike Tyson, she was mostly able to pull hair and I'm not sure she even landed a punch.

I think Monique was the instigator, because what was Candace supposed to do when Monique started flipping her hair?  

Silver lining though, this is a really, REALLY great advertisement for Candace's wig glue, because that wig barely moved!

Karen said they were egging each other on, but when Monique was like "well thats what she gets" Karen just folded her arms over her chest and gave Monique "a look"

[RealReality]

Wow, this revisionist history!

Monique realizes this is all on tape, because I don't see how Candace was "threatening" her.  Monique was the one doing the hair flicking, not Candace and Monique was the one grabbing the hair.  

Control freak Monique is trying to get some sort of justification on camera and its not working for me.  

Apparently Monique needed to beat her up because she was "talking crazy" to everyone and then it is because she was threatened and Monique, who assaulted Candace and then creepily was stalking her to assault her again has the nerve to call Candace "batshit crazy?"

Did anyone else ask Monique to defend their honor by beating Candace up?  

ALL of these women talk crazy to each other and say offensive things you wouldn't say in polite company.  If Monique feels like she is justified in physically assaulting everyone who talks to her sideways, she shouldn't be on the show.  How can the other cast members freely express themselves if they think they are going to be on the receiving end of a beating should they say something that annoys or upsets Monique?

I think the women are all onto something when they say that they don't even understand what the problem is between Monique and Candace that would be so serious as to justify violence.  

IMO, the answer is that there ISN'T  anything.  Every single thing she has complained about Candace doing, someone else has done worse and Monique won't go after that person.....she conveniently doesn't "black out" around them.  

People like Monique thrive on bullying and getting in a pack to pick on a common target.  Monique saw Candace as the easiest target.  At the beginning of the season no one liked her at all and she was in conflict with Gizelle (and therefore Robyn) and Ashley.  So three of the cast members already didn't like her.  Karen was ambivalent.  I think they talked on the show about icing Candace out.  

BUT, Candace played a reverse UNO and made amends with Ashley and Gizelle.  THEN she got another cast member added who was clearly going to be an ally for Candace.  So, now all of the other women like her, and Monique is isolated and alone with her inexplicable Candace hate.  Particularly inexplicable because Candace apologized for not telling Monique that Charisse was coming to the party.  

I think Monique felt further isolated and stymied when Ashley, Candace and Gizelle were all talking at the lakehouse.  Monique tried to get the Candace vendetta going again by attempting to fight her the next day, but not only did Candace walk away, but Monique looked crazy.  So not only was Candace no longer the common enemy Monique could lead the group in getting rid of, but it was MONIQUE that was on the outs.  

I think that this upset Monique more than ever.  At the end of the day, Monique may have used Candace to get in with the group, just as much as she used Charisse for her rolodex and clout.  

 

[qtpye]

7 hours ago, Legalbeagle421 said:

Monique grabbed that girl for a good 15 minutes (exaggerating). Good Lord. 😳

 

7 hours ago, loveaux said:

so maybe im tripping or maybe i didn’t watch the same episode as Monique, but Monique started that and egged that fight on. she threw the first punch and regardless of how much shit candiass talks, i just feel like that fight was...unnecessary.

 

but was that Karen screaming “MONIQUE LET HER GOOOOOOOO” like that LMAO

 

7 hours ago, Legalbeagle421 said:

I thought it was Robyn, but whoever it is my new favorite Potomac housewife. 

And I agree with you 100%. Monique went too far and said she would kill her. Okay, psycho. I've never been a fan. 

 

7 hours ago, dosodog said:

Shut up Ashley. You were in the bathroom, you have no idea what happened. Stop escalating the situation with Monique.

Monique just stepped in a big old pile of bird poo.  That was beyond.  

And then she ran off to go get her again!

 

7 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

Monique and Candiace handed Ashley a gift. Barely anyone talking about Michael now.

 

6 hours ago, Stats Queen said:

Gizelle so excited the cheater, cheater pumpkin eater gifted his daughters ownership in a restaurant - that’s a hard burden because restaurants have a large failure rate. This seems like a tax dodge to me.

Of course the restaurant is shut down (prior to COVID). The interior of the restaurant looks like a rip off of Stony River (a small chain of excellent steakhouses in metro Atlanta).

And no Gizelle, One restaurant does not make generational wealth.

Gizelle throws shade, but her ex, is a shady, shady, shady person who, while a pastor, does not seem to have a personal grasp on the Ten Commandments.

Monique, your hubby played professional football for years, where players are tough on the field, because it’s a game and most of them don’t carry that into their “non-work” life.  He looked appalled at your behavior - you were not on the field nor in the Boxing ring, you were at a wine tasting.

 

6 hours ago, loveaux said:

Tonight’s episode goes to Gizelle’s dad!! I could tell he wasn’t feeling it when she first brought it up, and even more so when she brought it up at dinner.

Monique taking zero responsibility for the fight is something that’s really making me side eye her, and her acting as if Candiace was the one that is completely in the wrong is showing how immature she still is. Big Chris being annoyed with her should’ve been something of a sign where she should’ve been like “okay, well, when you put it that way I’m wrong as well”. And her insisting that Candiace threw the wine glass; girl gravity threw that damn glass when you yoked that girl up like a puppy being snatched up by by their mother. 

 

5 hours ago, Legalbeagle421 said:

I think Monique's behavior was psychotic. I am indifferent to Candiace, honestly. Worse than the fact that Monique was already crazy for grabbing Candiace and holding her despite EVERYONE telling her to let go, was her (1) walking away calling Candiace a stupid bitch and calmly telling the producer that Candiace deserved it; (2) running outside to try to find Candiace again like a crazy person; and (3)calmly talking to her husband about the fight in front of her child and continuing to defend her behavior. What.a.crazy.person. There is no defense. There is nothing that Robyn or Gizelle or Ashley or Karen or Wendy or anyone else could have said or done. Monique had already made up in her mind that she was going to come for Candiace like this. I agree with Wendy. "I didn't sign up for this". Monique looked really bad and to me, there is no coming back from this. 

First, the good:

Monique has one of the prettiest daughters I have ever seen on reality television. I am impressed that they do not exploit her on social media like a lot for reality show people do to their babies.

Gizelle's daughters also seem very lovely and well behaved. I am sorry they have such a shit bird for a father who gifted them with a failing restaurant...probably part of some elaborate financial scam he has going on. The thing has already closed (not because of Covid), which makes it even more embarrassing. 

Gizelle's dad...SIR, YOU HAVE NOTHING BUT MY RESPECT...Gizelle looks so stupid pretending to want to be with Jamal...even for a fake reality show storyline.

Now the rest:

Monique....why did you not bow out two seasons, ago? You could have easily been the next Ayesha Curry with your beauty, glamourous rich lifestyle, and awesome family. Instead, you embarrassed the hell out of your family by acting like a damn fool. Girl, you have almost a perfect life but your hunger for d-level fame could fuck up everything. You looked like a giant asshole.

When Monique was running outside...she reminded me of an evil version of wonder women...it was legitimately scary. 

For those who were saying that Ashley got lucky...maybe, not. I actually think we are all sick of the Darby's marriage and would not mind them off the show. The same could also be said for many other members of the cast (looking at you, Robyn).

Gizelle and Robyn have used all their pedigreed privileges and good looks to attracts two of the sorriest ass men I have ever seen. The same can be said of Ashley but I understand she probably looked at Michael as a way to escape poverty.

 

 

[RealReality]

OMG, Gizelle's father!  Not used to these new mics, ha ha.  He is so slick, because he really had me going until he got caught talking shit.  I was here for it!  

Jamal and this restaurant are so slimy. 

I don't know what the scam is, but I KNOW its a scam.  I hope Gizelle consulted an attorney on her daughter's behalf.  s

I don't understand Gizelle at all.  Jamal has never not cheated on her.  He cheated while they were engaged and they cheated while they were married.  Gizelle is beautiful, fit and financially secure, she doesn't need to get into an Ashley Darby situation.  Maybe Jamal just wants to be on TV.

And what was with that restaurant, it was just so....blah.  I think Arizonas is a perfectly servicable chain steak place, like the Black Angus or Outback, right?  When I think of a family legacy restaurant, I think of something with down home food or a special recipe from the old country or something.  Who gives their kid a chain restaurant?  Maybe he is trying to get some sort off spinoff around the restaurant?  Like whatever Kandi did with that OLG restaurant.  But that wasn't a chain.  Its all just so bizarre.

Whoever guessed money laundering operation may be onto something.  I just know its a scam.

*******************************************************************************************

I have a hard time reading Ray.  I know Karen felt awful, but I wonder if this isn't his passive aggressive move to get Karen to spend more time with him.  He seems so happy when they are just joking and having fun and talking.  But I really think he wants her to stay home, have adventures with him and cook some dinners.

Or maybe its all just a storyline.  

************************************************************************************

Man, I really want to see what happens next week!  

I'm so glad that the other women aren't going to let Monique get away with her deflections, excuses and revisionist history. 

I also don't blame Candace for not agreeing to attend.  

I do not agree with the implication from Candace's therapist that she may have brought this on herself.  I just disagree that words justify a beating* and I think that is an incredibly slippery slope.  

* -- this is a general statement, there are some words that are rightfully justify a physical response

[RealReality]

Gizelle has straight up called Monique a motormouth in her own home.  

When Monique threatened to choke her out with an umbrella, Robyn literally said "do it do it" and taunted Monique much worse and much longer.

Somehow, on neither of these occasions did Monique "blackout" and get violent.  Somehow Monique managed to keep her composure around tall, athletic Robyn when she was taunting her.  She managed to keep her composure around Gizelle, who is likable and more powerful than her on the show.  But, she blacked out when 5 foot, 100 pound, poor and powerless candace said "drag me" a couple times?

 

Not buying it.  I think Monique has been after Candace all season because she thought Candace was an easy victim.  I imagine that Monique felt that everyone would choose her over Candace because Candace can be annoying.  

Edited September 28, 2020 by RealReality

[Keywestclubkid]

The other ladies were appalled because that’s not the show they signed up for .. yes G and the others are messy with the mouths but they don’t throw hands ... they have every right to be appalled this isn’t some vh1,WeTv, or hell even lifetime bottom of the barrel reality show where physical fights are encouraged and paraded out like a badge of honor & gawked at like a spectacle and that’s not what was pitched to the ladies when they signed up. but slowly bravo has been turning them all into it.. remember when physical violence got you immediately rejected from a show? Why do they still not do that? 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[Vanderboom]

3 hours ago, RealReality said:

That was better and worse than I thought.

Monique came off looking like a rabid dog.  I'm embarrassed for her.

Also the "I blacked out" defense is overplayed girl.  You didn't black out because you remember every single thing that happened, so just stop it.  I think the most chilling thing was Monique having some time to cool down and calmly plotting a way to get out so she could attack Candace again.  To me, that was scary because she not only wanted to go back at Candace again, she had to strategically think through how she was going to get out of the backroom of a winery she had never been to before.  

You're right. I had forgotten Monique has run this play before to dodge accountability for her actions. But it doesn't work if you keep going Energizer Bunny style even after the heat of the moment. I'm very surprised by how much Monique is in the wrong. When I heard about the fight, I was ready to think the worst of Candiace. I also thought Monique's comment about Candiace's mom was just extra mean; we all know that Candiace's mother has hit her.

As much as I hate the whole respectability politics thing (looking at you, "Pound Cake" Cosby, you sick mutha . . .), I get why everyone was all This Makes Us All Look Bad. Real Housewives is not exactly known for its decorum, but physical harm crosses a line that can't be explained away with "editing" or "fun shade." 

In other news, I can't be the only one who sees the similarities between Karen's talking head look and Miss Finch from Follow That Bird, right?

[luckyroll3]

3 hours ago, RealReality said:

OMG, Gizelle's father!  Not used to these new mics, ha ha.  He is so slick, because he really had me going until he got caught talking shit.  I was here for it!  

 Damn I was multitasking after the fight and missed him talking shit. Now I have to go back and watch. Was this during the restaurant opening?

[laprin]

11 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Ok honestly how much money does Michael actually have for all this postnuptial talk? Like the way she’s acting he should have a couple hundred million or something 

Ashley thinks she’s a real business woman, but Michael’s casual willingness to keep making additions to their pre-nup and now post-nup makes me suspect he secretly has a lot of his assets in someone else’s name - maybe his other kids. I also don’t believe she gets 50% of all his assets. I think she gets 50% of his assets earned during the time of their marriage. Any man who wants a pre-nup is trying to protect his previous assets. 

[Keywestclubkid]

3 minutes ago, laprin said:

Ashley thinks she’s a real business woman, but Michael’s casual willingness to keep making additions to their pre-nup and now post-nup makes me suspect he secretly has a lot of his assets in someone else’s name - maybe his other kids. I also don’t believe she gets 50% of all his assets. I think she gets 50% of his assets earned during the time of their marriage. Any man who wants a pre-nup is trying to protect his previous assets. 

the way Ashley has been circling this man and this money issue for the entire time they have been on this show you would think he had bill gates money lol

[qtpye]

13 minutes ago, laprin said:

Ashley thinks she’s a real business woman, but Michael’s casual willingness to keep making additions to their pre-nup and now post-nup makes me suspect he secretly has a lot of his assets in someone else’s name - maybe his other kids. I also don’t believe she gets 50% of all his assets. I think she gets 50% of his assets earned during the time of their marriage. Any man who wants a pre-nup is trying to protect his previous assets. 

I was kind of wondering why the Hell anyone would make up a prenup in which their spouse gets 50% of their assets?  I mean isn't that quite often what the spouse gets anyway...or it is actually probably more then Ashley would get before they had children.  It almost seems like it would benefit Ashley more...which makes me think she has no idea what she signed.

9 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

the way Ashley has been circling this man and this money issue for the entire time they have been on this show you would think he had bill gates money lol

I imagine that he has trusts and other financial instruments set up in the name of his other children. He will probably do the same for his youngest children from his second marriage but I doubt if he is worth as much as she thinks he is.

[laprin]

8 hours ago, charming said:

I felt bad for Gizelle's Dad! Damn, you never know when the producers will air the hot mic footage. I can't blame him for not supporting the relationship. I didn't realize Jamal cheated on Gizelle before they even got married and then her Dad didn't go to the wedding. I don't understand the hold Jamal has over her.  He's not even cute like Juan. 

I think Gizelle misses being taken care of by a man. Jamal is the only man she has dated, other than Sherman, with the financial means to support her and her daughters (that we’ve seen). I think she wants security beyond being on RHOP. By the way, what’s going on with her Every Hue makeup line? She hardly talks about it anymore. 

[nexxie]

9 hours ago, charming said:

I felt bad for Gizelle's Dad! Damn, you never know when the producers will air the hot mic footage. I can't blame him for not supporting the relationship. I didn't realize Jamal cheated on Gizelle before they even got married and then her Dad didn't go to the wedding. I don't understand the hold Jamal has over her.  He's not even cute like Juan. 

Wish dad would’ve told Gizelle what a horrible example she’s setting for those beautiful girls.

[nexxie]

Hey Karen, he’s just not that into you. Stop forcing the issue. Move on - let him either walk away or pursue you. 

[Boofish]

Gizelle's house is just as messy as she is

Gizelle's daughters DO NOT want to be on TV and she needs to respect that

If the producer wants to know how many kids Jamal has, she should ask the internet. She will probably get a response in 10 minutes or less. The internet delivers quicker than 1990 Dominoes.

Oh Monique ... oh hon .. why. If you had just "let her go" and not did the one more run up for good measure.... oh hon *insert sideways grandmother face with hand on hip for effect*

Lots of "hood rat" "ghetto" etc flying around. Don't recall any of those names when the white women across franchises got violent and it has happened but moving on.

[Neurochick]

12 hours ago, Legalbeagle421 said:

Monique grabbed that girl for a good 15 minutes (exaggerating). Good Lord. 😳

Monique was on Twitter last night trying to justify her actions.  A lot of people were on her side.  But two things kept bugging me:

1) Production must have screamed "LET HER GO" about 10 times before her fingers had to be pried from Candiace's wig.

2) After the fight was over and Candiace was in the car, why did Monique run outside?  She was charging like she wanted to continue the fight.  WTF was that about?   Was she still blacked out?

Then the next day, when Monique was washing her daughter's hair, on Twitter, Monique commented, "I'm back in mommy mode," someone commented that maybe it wasn't appropriate to discuss the fight (she was talking to Chris) when her little girl was right there.  

I'm not on Team Monique.  I am on Team Gizelle's dad.  The man's a real OG.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Neurochick

[mytmo]

I felt so bad for Karen.  With all the bravado she puts out and believing in the illusion of having a fully loving man for him to say otherwise gotta hurt.  I would tell him I'll make it perfectly clear and you can leave now.

Frankly bored with the physical altercations.  Been done too many times before.

Jamal just doesn't exude the caring husband/father/pastor vibes.  Why the sunglasses all the time?  We loved Dad's parting shots.

[Keywestclubkid]

I wonder how many of those managers and workers at the restaurant were like why are they parading some 13 and 15yos through here like they will be running the place.. everyone knows they were on that deed for name only ... none of them seemed remotely interested in having or owning a and running  a restaurant  at their age

[Neurochick]

13 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I wonder how many of those managers and workers at the restaurant were like why are they parading some 13 and 15yos through here like they will be running the place.. everyone knows they were on that deed for name only ... none of them seemed remotely interested in having or owning a and running  a restaurant  at their age

I thought that whole part was silly.  But I like seeing Gizelle's daughters.  

 

Quote

I felt so bad for Karen.  With all the bravado she puts out and believing in the illusion of having a fully loving man for him to say otherwise gotta hurt.  I would tell him I'll make it perfectly clear and you can leave now.

This might sound strange but I think Karen is just an older version of Ashley.  She married an older man who was financially stable.  What she didn't get was, if you marry a man 20 years older, he's always going to be 20 years older.  Cool when you're 30 and he's 50, but different when you're 55 and he's 75.  

Edited September 28, 2020 by Neurochick

[byrd]

On 9/26/2020 at 2:16 PM, OnceSane said:

Airs September 27, 2020.

I'm sure I'll be dragged for this , but honestly I have been wanting to drag Candy-Ass for the last 2 seasons myself ( but I digress ) however, there was no excuse for this behavior from either lady . It would have been so much better for Monique to grab her purse and say goodnight and let candy-ass continue to unravel. Monique was on the edge of becoming unhinged . she's angry with Candy -ass, Chris and her life right now in general.  I don't know why these women think they can provoke each other to the point of physical violence, it was the same scenerio with Porsha and Kenya Moore.   Now Monique was wrong for attacking her physically , but they both contributed to this. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by byrd

[Mr. Miner]

I’m team Gizelle’s dad! I know Gizelle is tired of being alone, but why with this skeevy mfer?

Candiace was acting like the Candiace I hate when Monique grabbed her. I don’t condone what she did, but I understand it and it didn’t bother me.

[byrd]

12 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Ok honestly how much money does Michael actually have for all this postnuptial talk? Like the way she’s acting he should have a couple hundred million or something 

Obviously enough to take good care of Ashely and baby Dean. 

[BloggerAloud]

10 hours ago, charming said:

I felt bad for Gizelle's Dad! Damn, you never know when the producers will air the hot mic footage. I can't blame him for not supporting the relationship. I didn't realize Jamal cheated on Gizelle before they even got married and then her Dad didn't go to the wedding. I don't understand the hold Jamal has over her.  He's not even cute like Juan. 

I think everybody knows that this reunion is just so Gizelle can have a storyline, that's why everybody around it is being so honest about how ain't shit Jamal is. The daughters don't see it for him, the Dad dislikes him, and that's why the other cast members are always shadily asking where Jamal is at all these functions because they know this stuff ain't real.

[byrd]

12 hours ago, Grumpbump said:

How is Monique still on the show?  Honestly, Porsha from RHoA was kicked off the show and had to attend anger management classes for her altercation with Twirl Girl (sorry...temp amnesia).  She had a death grip on Candiace's wig.

Do we even know at this point if Monique is still on the show ? I agree she needs some down time. I don't want Monique kicked off I like her a lot, but she's under too much stress for this right now.  I hope her tubes are tied or Chris is fixed because she does not need anymore kids .. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by byrd

[drivethroo]

9 minutes ago, laprin said:

By the way, what’s going on with her Every Hue makeup line? She hardly talks about it anymore. 

Everyhue is on hiatus.  She said the manufacturer shut down because of COVID and they're trying to find another manufacturer that passes the regulations because they don't know when or if their manufacturer will be back in operation.

35 minutes ago, laprin said:

I also don’t believe she gets 50% of all his assets. I think she gets 50% of his assets earned during the time of their marriage.

 Michael may have very little personal assets which is why he's cool with giving Ashley 50% of nothing.  His company's website claims the company's portfolio has a total market value of over $6 billion.  How much of that is Michael's personal assets? Who knows. I think Ashley will get a nice sum in additional to the child support but she won't be rich.

I'd like to see Ashley get into real estate herself. She's intelligent, we know from the restaurant that she will work hard, she's attractive and she has an energetic personality.  I often wondered why Michael never had her working at his business.  I don't want Ashley to have to depend on Kickback Jack for the rest of her life.

More thoughts on Monique v Candiace:

I've seen a lot of commentary on social media, on forums etc saying sure Monique was wrong, but Candiace had it coming to her.  You can't speak reckless to people and expect not to get popped, etc.  I think people are viewing this situation with biased lenses against Candiace because Candiace's actions on the show on this season in no way justifies Monique's attack on her:

• At Ashley's dinner party, Monique went on the "Miley Whats Good?" attack on Candiace at the table and Candiace refused to engage with her.  Candiace did tell all of them to STFU but that's because Gizelle, Robyn and Monique were ganging up on Candiace.
• At Ashley's Sip N See, Monique tried to turn up on Candiace, but Candiace refused to engage and left.
• Candiace decided not to do the podcast with Monique so she wouldn't have to engage with Monique.  This likely happened before the lake house trip based on Monique's hairstyle in the scene.
• At the lake house, Monique tried to turn up on Candiace 2x regarding the pow-wow with Gizelle and Ashley, to the point where Wendy & Robyn were asking her why was she turning up on Candiace to the 100th power but not Ashley and Gizelle.  Candiace refused to engage with her both times and walked away.

So I'm trying to understand how people feel like Candiace deserved to get her ass beat this season because by this logic of "if ya keep coming at a person, you deserve a beatdown", CANDIACE would've been more than justified to whoop MONIQUE's ass.  And lowkey, all Monique did to Candiace was whopp her upside the head and shift her wig.  Candiace busted her lip with the glass.

Further, Monique told the producer in the stairwell that Candiace had it coming for a long time.  So Monique did not lay hands on Candiace because of "you sleep, I'm sleep", she just wanted to fight Candiace to show her who's on top.

Then I see people say Candiace had it coming because of the plot.  But the plot didn't come to light until after the beatdown so the beatdown couldn't have been about the plot and if it was, why beat Candiace's ass when Gizelle was allegedly the ringleader?  This "plot point" is why allegedly Chris is now backing Monique in beating Candiace's ass (allegedly)*.

I've seen people say the GEB + Candiace have always felt Monique was a hoodrat & looked down on her which is true, but Monique herself said "if you provoke people then the hood comes out" so are you a hoodrat or are you a hood rat?  You can't be mad at people for looking at you like a hoodrat when you are running around saying "this what happens in the hood".  Ma'am you are no longer in the hood and where is all this hood energy for Gigi? If anybody needs a hood beatdown it's Gigi but I suspect Monique knows Gigi will match that hood energy pound for pound.

Why is it that Monique decides not to engage with Gigi who started a rumor and spread it to her castmates but she has MMA energy for Candiace?

The GEB + Wendy want nothing further to do with Monique because

• the GEB never liked Monique from the beginning
• Monique was over the top violent on Candiace, then running around claiming several times she will kill Candiace if Candiace is ever around her again
• Monique immediately ran to social media to start up a smear campaign on Candiace, which has been going on for a year.

If you saw your cast mate beat your other cast mate to the point where SIX people (5 producers + Karen) are struggling to get them off of her, then they claim several times CALMLY if that other cast mate is ever brought around them they will kill them, you're not going to want to be around that cast mate either.

Monique better be announcing she's going in for extensive counseling because she's already got 4 cast members who don't want to film with her and that only leaves Karen + Ashley.  I don't see it for Monique because she wasn't remorseful, she's STILL not remorseful ("Drag Queens" song) and it's in her best interests to leave this show at the end of this season. 

Monique played herself because she thought she was joining in with the GEB to get rid of Candiace but saw them laughing at Candiace's "I'm Sleep/You Sleep," could not defend herself with words and decided to show Candiace who was top dog with her fists.  Sad.

 

 

[byrd]

12 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

What was the name of that restaurant Jamal gifted to his daughters?  Was it “New Mexico’s“ or something?  I can’t recall, because the show was ever-so-subtle in promoting it.  

Oh my God, I love the producer—“how many kids did Jamal give birth to?”!!  And Gizelle won’t respond out of respect for “the kids”?  Because...giving an accurate number with no additional commentary would really hurt Jamal’s “kids.”  It has nothing at all to do with Gizelle’s ego, nothing, I tell ya.  

I don’t care that much about Ashley.  I feel like she has the same storyline every year.  But this is the best her hair has ever looked.  It’s longer than it used to be, and the weight is giving it more curl and less frizz and I dig it.  This is what I notice when she is talking to Kangaroo Jack, because everything they talk about has been recycled four times, give or take.  The only thing I do like is how upfront and matter of fact Ashley is about the fact that divorce is on the table and that she wants to get paid if there’s another indiscretion.  That is perhaps more embarrassing to Michael in the long term than cheating—that someone is putting his shit out there on front street, and no longer has his misshapen back.  

Wow, Karen doesn’t cook as much as she used to.  Ray is blocked on the word “love.”  The radio host is stressing “honesty” because it is conducive to communication, not because it brings more salacious details to the forefront, not at all.  This is some boring shit.  I blame Monique.  If someone can’t keep her hands to herself, as if she is a two year old in the sandbox, all we’re going to get are scenes of them filming alone or with husbands.  

Jamal strikes me the most insincere person I’ve ever seen.  “Generational wealth,” my foot.  Stop having kids for a hot second and you can support the ones you do have through college and they can create generational wealth that way.  Of course, there are fewer tax loopholes in higher education.  Gizelle does not look good standing by her man.  She looks like a woman who is taking Ray’s advice from a few seasons yonder about how she is not going to look this good 10 or 15 years from now, and she’d better secure a man now.  Gizelle’s dad having Jamal’s number on a hot mic would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.  

Robyn had the right idea by hightailing it out of there with the fight, not to be seen again for the rest of the episode.  I have a feeling that whatever Robyn was up to—folding Juan’s drawers or whatever—would have been better than the rest of the post-fight episode.  

Arizona..

[Crazydoxielady]

BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO??!!?!?! Fire Monique. Point blank. That assault was completely disgusting. And she tried to run back for more? And calling her a trick. I did not tune into Love and Hip Hop Potomac. And I am SO ANNOYED that I am standing up for Candace! CANDACE! She is an annoying little gnat that is best ignored. I used to fast forward thru her scenes in other seasons. But this season knowing what was coming I have watched carefully. She has actually been more gracious and not as annoying.

I can not speak on the Charrisse thing, but its clear Monique did something with the trainer. Rumor has it she acted inappropriate in a club with him, with her ex friend Gigi witnessing, and it went down hill from there. Who knows what that means. But Monique is acting hella guilty and hella hood. My goodness how embarrassing for her children and husband.  The clock is ticking on that marriage. I would give it five years tops. Chris isn't having it.

And isn't it sad that Monique married well, yet never learned humility or true appreciation for that? She's spent 200K on a pod cast? Say what now? This woman is led by ego. She even put out a "diss track" about the fight? Just fire her Bravo. She is a liability and I will never look at her the same way.  Good luck to her husband Chris. She is clearly in it for the money, and when not being watched is crawling all over her trainer. And when she is being watched and filmed feels its ok to assault another female that weighs 50 pounds less than her.  Bye girl. I'm good with your unlawful shenanigans, cheating, and ego trip.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Crazydoxielady

[byrd]

12 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Monique is completely crazy.  I don’t care if she’s cheating, her husband’s cheating, I don’t care if Mrs Claus is cheating on Santa...bitch is crazier and more violent than Nene Leakes.  Getting ahold of Candiace’s hair and not letting go forever like she was clutching a fumbled football was so fucked up.  Then going around and coming for Candiace a second time...???  All the distance Monique created between being a hood rat from Atlantic City and the Lady of the Manor of Potomac has disappeared for me.  I don’t know why they didn’t call the police, and why Monique wasn’t arrested.  

And then Moniques brags—brags!—to Chris that the hood is going to come out when Candiace talks shit.  Chris did not seem pleased.  I’m putting a shelf life on that marriage now.  Maybe they won’t get divorced or separated this year or next year, but I doubt they’re going to grow old and grey together, the way that Ashley is not going to grow old and grey with the already old and grey Michael.  Monique is just carrying around way too much anger.  I wonder how she treats people off camera.  

I think Bravo is on Candiace’s side with all the footage they put out there of Candiace apologizing to Monique.  I don’t know how Bravo got on the right side of something, but I’ll take what I can get...

Yes, Karen, Monique and Candiace were “both wrong” as in Monique wasn’t 100% wrong.  Candiace had some complicity in the single digit percentile.  But I think Karen was implying that Monique and Candiace shared the blame for the fight evenly, and that’s dead wrong, unless this is some soap opera and that was Monique’s long lost evil twin carrying through on her threat to drag Candiace...twice.  Damn.  That might be the worst physical shit I’ve seen go down in Bravo history.  I don’t know how Monique comes back from this, or if I even want to see her try.  Whatever is going on with Monique is too dark and sordid that I think she should sort it out off TV.

When Monique called Candiace a “trick” after she assaulted her, it brought me back to the good old days of season two, when Monique had to apologize for simply calling Gizelle a “trick” and how appalled her pastor was when she repeated the story to him.  

Also, nice way to deflect and make no apologies for violence, Monique.  This was a long time coming and Candiace’s mother should have smacked her face a long time ago????  I think someone needs to take a season or two off and go to a mental health spa.  

Well if you think that was the worst  then obviously you did not see Porsha Williams drag Kenya Moore all the way across the floor by her hair. or Evelyn Lozada from Basketball wives jump from a table top to attack someone or Theresa Gudice turn over a table.  Emotion run very high on these show..

Lol !!!

[Neurochick]

15 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

I've seen people say the GEB + Candiace have always felt Monique was a hoodrat & looked down on her which is true, but Monique herself said "if you provoke people then the hood comes out" so are you a hoodrat or are you a hood rat?  You can't be mad at people for looking at you like a hoodrat when you are running around saying "this what happens in the hood".  Ma'am you are no longer in the hood and where is all this hood energy for Gigi? If anybody needs a hood beatdown it's Gigi but I suspect Monique knows Gigi will match that hood energy pound for pound.

Monique doesn't want to be called a hoodrat, but she kept referencing the hood last night.

It's very dangerous when people say,  "Well, Candiace provoked her...."  because that's very close to saying something like, "well, if she didn't dress like that/didn't walk down that street/ that wouldn't have happened to her."  

The only reason to fight is when your life of the life of someone you care for is being threatened.  What I saw is something that I saw outside a few months ago TWICE.  The same two girls fighting over some nonsense, and BTW, that was in the hood, so shut it Monique, don't talk about "hood" when you have four houses, okay?

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Neurochick

[Keywestclubkid]

9 minutes ago, byrd said:

Well if you think that was the worst  then obviously you did not see Porsha Williams drag Kenya Moore all the way across the floor by her hair. or Evelyn Lozada from Basketball wives jump from a table top to attack someone or Theresa Gudice turn over a table.  Emotion run very high on these show..

Lol !!!

Theresa flipping a table wasnt the same has grabbing someone by the hair and swinging on them ... but like i said before these shows are slowing letting them get away with more and more Kinda like Danielle  attacking Margaret last season and pulling her by the hair and taking like 4 steps doing it but she wasnt a full time housewife and got dumped but still got to come to the reunion  ... and Jennifer getting with the breaking glass on tables and lunging at people ....It used to be Zero tolerance now its like eh the fans are gonna love this and they laugh about it ...

[byrd]

10 minutes ago, Crazydoxielady said:

BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO??!!?!?! Fire Monique. Point blank. That assault was completely disgusting. And she tried to run back for more? And calling her a trick. I did not tune into Love and Hip Hop Potomac. And I am SO ANNOYED that I am standing up for Candance! CANDACE! She is an annoying little gnat that is best ignored. I used to fast forward thru her scenes in other seasons. But this season knowing what was coming I have watched carefully. She has actually been more gracious and not as annoying.

I can not speak on the Charrisse thing, but its clear Monique did something with the trainer. Rumor has it she acted inappropriate in a club with him, with her ex friend Gigi witnessing, and it went down hill from there. Who knows what that means. But Monique is acting hella guilty and hella hood. My goodness how embarrassing for her children and husband.  The clock is ticking on that marriage. I would give it five years tops. Chris isn't having it.

And isn't it sad that Monique married well, yet never learned humility or true appreciation for that? She's spent 200K on a pod cast? Say what now? This woman is led by ego. She even put out a "diss track" about the fight? Just fire her Bravo. She is a liability and I will never look at her the same way.  Good luck to her husband Chris. She is clearly in it for the money, and when not being watched is crawling all over her trainer. And when she is being watched and filmed feels its ok to assault another female that weighs 50 pounds less than her.  Bye girl. I'm good with your unlawful shenanigans, cheating, and ego trip.

No Bravo don't fire Monique, she need anger management counseling, and she and Chris need help. what is saw was behavior that can't be excused it was wrong, but I like seeing her lifestyle, she an Ashely are the richest ones on the show now I believe.  I know she has to be remorseful as to how she was portrayed by now. All of these women are on ego trips, not one of them thinks like a humble person,  Robyn maybe the only one because everyone know her situation. I was disappointed as to how she reacted to Chris when he expressed his opinion , he was right. I just think she deserves another chance , everyone else gets one on these realty shows. . 

2 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Theresa flipping a table wasnt the same has grabbing someone by the hair and swinging on them ... but like i said before these shows are slowing letting them get away with more and more Kinda like Danielle  attacking Margaret last season and pulling her by the hair and taking like 4 steps doing it but she wasnt a full time housewife and got dumped but still got to come to the reunion  ... and Jennifer getting with the breaking glass on tables and lunging at people ....It used to be Zero tolerance now its like eh the fans are gonna love this and they laugh about it ...

Truth , and note that the only reason Theresa did not grab Danielle was because Joe was holding her back.. Lol !!!  

[drivethroo]

Let me just add something on Porsha: Porsha did fight Kenya, she did fight Cynthia and she did run down the alley to fight her friend Jami.  But we ain't never see SIX people STRUGGLE to pry Porsha off of any of those people.  We didn't even see that when Nene came after the cameraman.  The closest thing we've seen is RHOA Pillow Talk when Apollo beat down Brandon.  I don't even think 6 people even had to get Apollo off Brandon.  If you've got that much pent up rage that "I'm sleep/You sleep" provokes you, you've got serious issues.

As far as "ghetto/hoodrat" is concerned, we can't say "EFF respectability politics" then also say "Well nobody calls white women hoodrats." Do we care about what white people think or not?  The white women who watch white housewives toss tables and throw down think those white women are trash, too.

Some of the RHOP castmembers belong to organizations that may not want to be associated with Love & Hip Hop Potomac and while they get into verbal scuffles, they haven't had any physical fights up until now. As Wendy said, they did not sign up for that.

Two, while Robyn, Gizelle & Candiace look down on Monique and call her a hoodrat/ghetto, MONIQUE HERSELF went around saying "this what we do in the hood" and "the hood jumped out."  How are you going to get mad somebody calls you a hoodrat when you walk around saying "well the hood jumped out."

And maybe this is at the core of Monique's rage: she's pretending to be somebody she's not and for all of her pretending, a brat like Candiace is and will always be more accepted by the people Monique wants to be accepted by but will never be and she took that out on Candiace.  Monique should've never fallen out with Charrisse because I suspect Charrisse is also from the hood or hood-adjacent and could've showed her how to work these women.

2 minutes ago, byrd said:

I know she has to be remorseful as to how she was portrayed by now.

That's the problem: Monique is NOT remorseful.  She wasn't remorseful at the time, she wasn't remorseful when Chris said "Um that's embarassing," she told Chris she didn't give a F how she looked (which is a problem), she started up a smear campaign on Candiace which is still ongoing and she just released a song about beating Candiace's ass called "Drag Queens."  We ain't never see Porsha, Nene or Apollo releasing songs about beating somebody's ass.  Monique is in her mid to late 30s, not 22 years old.  It is not a good look and if she can't understand that she needs to exit the show.  Kick her off and bring in a new (older) housewife for Karen.

[byrd]

10 hours ago, funnygirl said:

I am not at all a fighter, but unpopular opinion: 

I understand that sometimes some people deserve to get their ass beat. You run your mouth and push buttons enough thinking you can go unchecked, eventually you will step to the wrong one and some form of karma will come back at you. It's why I was never mad at RHOA's Porsha for going at Kenya. 

 

 Yes, Sorry but as I said before I have been wanting to Pop Candy-Ass in her mouth for the last 2 seasons.  This does not make what I feel right at all, but everyone is not going to just walk away ,  

[byrd]

8 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Let me just add something on Porsha: Porsha did fight Kenya, she did fight Cynthia and she did run down the alley to fight her friend Jami.  But we ain't never see SIX people STRUGGLE to pry Porsha off of any of those people.  We didn't even see that when Nene came after the cameraman.  The closest thing we've seen is RHOA Pillow Talk when Apollo beat down Brandon.  I don't even think 6 people even had to get Apollo off Brandon.  If you've got that much pent up rage that "I'm sleep/You sleep" provokes you, you've got serious issues.

As far as "ghetto/hoodrat" is concerned, we can't say "EFF respectability politics" then also say "Well nobody calls white women hoodrats." Do we care about what white people think or not?  The white women who watch white housewives toss tables and throw down think those white women are trash, too.

Some of the RHOP castmembers belong to organizations that may not want to be associated with Love & Hip Hop Potomac and while they get into verbal scuffles, they haven't had any physical fights up until now. As Wendy said, they did not sign up for that.

Two, while Robyn, Gizelle & Candiace look down on Monique and call her a hoodrat/ghetto, MONIQUE HERSELF went around saying "this what we do in the hood" and "the hood jumped out."  How are you going to get mad somebody calls you a hoodrat when you walk around saying "well the hood jumped out."

And maybe this is at the core of Monique's rage: she's pretending to be somebody she's not and for all of her pretending, a brat like Candiace is and will always be more accepted by the people Monique wants to be accepted by but will never be and she took that out on Candiace.  Monique should've never fallen out with Charrisse because I suspect Charrisse is also from the hood or hood-adjacent and could've showed her how to work these women.

That's the problem: Monique is NOT remorseful.  She wasn't remorseful at the time, she wasn't remorseful when Chris said "Um that's embarassing," she told Chris she didn't give a F how she looked (which is a problem), she started up a smear campaign on Candiace which is still ongoing and she just released a song about beating Candiace's ass called "Drag Queens."  We ain't never see Porsha, Nene or Apollo releasing songs about beating somebody's ass.  Monique is in her mid to late 30s, not 22 years old.  It is not a good look and if she can't understand that she needs to exit the show.  Kick her off and bring in a new (older) housewife for Karen.

Okay , but I felt that since she wanted to meet with the other women, it was her conscience , was not aware of any song ( crazy) Maybe the others didn't put up a song, but it does not lessen their actions either. Well, if she does not get it together , she will leave Bravo no choice, they will fire her because this behavior is ongoing.  This is really sad , I wanted her to have another chance, still hope that she gets one. By the way it took the whole production crew to get Porsha off off Kenya. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by byrd

[Jel]

Monique was wrong to get physical. Period. 

Having said that... Candiace is the type of person who sees "the line" and walks right up to it and stands on it and doesn't budge from it. Candiace is a much, much better communicator than Monique, and I think smarter, too, and she uses that to her advantage. It's easy to see the wrong in the physical assault.

I think this whole thing goes back to Candiace inviting Charisse to that party. Imo, Monique genuinely  believed that Candiace was her friend and so she felt deeply betrayed by Candiace. Instead of saying as much, sincerely, she tried to dismiss it/ignore it. But that betrayal really stung. Personally, I thought that was a shit move and it showed me who Candiace is.

Candiace is now coming across as mostly the innocent victim. She's innocent of violence, and Monique is not, that's true. But Candiace is capable of a different kind of abuse, and she engages in it for reasons that stymie me.

Bottom line is if I were friends with Monique, and things went bad, I might get my hair pulled because Monique is pissed at something I did. But if I were friends with Candiace, I might get betrayed for no reason, or for Candiace's own amusement or so Candiace can better her own position at my expense. One seems so much worse to me. Shrug.

[sATL]

14 hours ago, Grumpbump said:

Running back after her....Monique was 100 percent wrong.  And I dislike Candiace.

ITA... I am not a lawyer so I could be incorrect  - but running after seemed criminal to me..

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by sATL

[byrd]

35 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Monique doesn't want to be called a hoodrat, but she kept referencing the hood last night.

It's very dangerous when people say,  "Well, Candiace provoked her...."  because that's very close to saying something like, "well, if she didn't dress like that/didn't walk down that street/ that wouldn't have happened to her."  

The only reason to fight is when your life of the life of someone you care for is being threatened.  What I saw is something that I saw outside a few months ago TWICE.  The same two girls fighting over some nonsense, and BTW, that was in the hood, so shut it Monique, don't talk about "hood" when you have four houses, okay?

 

True.. but having 4 houses has nothing to do with being a hood-rat , you can't' buy class. You can leave the ghetto, but the ghetto can still be in you . 

5 minutes ago, Jel said:

Monique was wrong to get physical. Period. 

Having said that... Candiace is the type of person who sees "the line" and walks right up to it and stands on it and doesn't budge from it. Candiace is a much, much better communicator than Monique, and I think smarter, too, and she uses that to her advantage. It's easy to see the wrong in the physical assault.

I think this whole thing goes back to Candiace inviting Charisse to that party. Imo, Monique genuinely  believed that Candiace was her friend and so she felt deeply betrayed by Candiace. Instead of saying as much, sincerely, she tried to dismiss it/ignore it. But that betrayal really stung. Personally, I thought that was a shit move and it showed me who Candiace is.

Candiace is now coming across as mostly the innocent victim. She's innocent of violence, and Monique is not, that's true. But Candiace is capable of a different kind of abuse, and she engages in it for reasons that stymie me.

Bottom line is if I were friends with Monique, and things went bad, I might get my hair pulled because Monique is pissed at something I did. But if I were friends with Candiace, I might get betrayed for no reason, or for Candiace's own amusement or so Candiace can better her own position at my expense. One seems so much worse to me. Shrug.

This, thank you so much..

Edited September 28, 2020 by byrd

[njbchlover]

55 minutes ago, byrd said:

Obviously enough to take good care of Ashely and baby Dean. 

And, possibly, Ashley's Mom and family.  

[sATL]

I want to give a shout out and separate post, to Grandpa Curtis Graves... I've said it before on several RHO* boards.. it is the grandparents who can say a short little line that is ROFL..

".. This is not a good move for her.. This guy has 6-7 baby mommas.. I'm done... I'm clean"

[eleanorofaquitaine]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Monique was on Twitter last night trying to justify her actions.  A lot of people were on her side.  But two things kept bugging me:

1) Production must have screamed "LET HER GO" about 10 times before her fingers had to be pried from Candiace's wig.

2) After the fight was over and Candiace was in the car, why did Monique run outside?  She was charging like she wanted to continue the fight.  WTF was that about?   Was she still blacked out?

Then the next day, when Monique was washing her daughter's hair, on Twitter, Monique commented, "I'm back in mommy mode," someone commented that maybe it wasn't appropriate to discuss the fight (she was talking to Chris) when her little girl was right there.  

I'm not on Team Monique.  I am on Team Gizelle's dad.  The man's a real OG.

I agree that these were so incredibly troubling. I don't understand what Monique's expectations were at the point where about 10 people are on you telling you to let go and when you are being physically restrained by members of production staff. What was her end game? To truly physically harm Candiace? Because that's what it seemed to me to be - she was bound and determined not just to put her hands on Candiace but to actually hurt her. And quite honestly, I think that is more than we have ever really seen before, even by someone like Porsha. In other words, I think Porsha was upset and let her anger get out of hand but I actually don't think Porsha wanted to actually physically damage Kenya in the long run.  Monique seemed bound and determined to actually harm Candiace and if I were Candiace, I too would say "no, I am never going to be around this person again." I am not sure I can blame Gizelle for saying that, either. 

9 minutes ago, Jel said:

Candiace is now coming across as mostly the innocent victim. She's innocent of violence, and Monique is not, that's true. But Candiace is capable of a different kind of abuse, and she engages in it for reasons that stymie me.

Bottom line is if I were friends with Monique, and things went bad, I might get my hair pulled because Monique is pissed at something I did. But if I were friends with Candiace, I might get betrayed for no reason, or for Candiace's own amusement or so Candiace can better her own position at my expense. One seems so much worse to me. Shrug.

The "she's no angel" stuff just seems like another excuse to defend the indefensible. I don't think anyone here thinks Candiace is an "innocent victim" when it comes to her bad relationships. Hell, I don't even think Candiace thinks that.  She said as much talking to Chris in the car ride home.  But actual adults don't resolve their conflicts with the kind of anger that Monique showed last night. 

Monique was well within her rights to say she doesn't consider Candiace a friend and to stop interacting with her.  But no, the person who WOULDN'T LET GO of another person's hair despite several people trying to pull her off and seemingly was interested in continuing to physically harm that other person IS the worse person. No amount of spinning about Candiace - who mostly just being an annoying jerk of a person - and her behavior is going to make her come off as "worse" here, in my opinion. 

I don't even like Candiace but what's the worst thing she's done this year - invite Charisse to a party? Try to talk to Ashley away from the group about her husband? Be a little annoying at a wine-tasting? Sorry, none of that rises to the level of assault, in my book. 

[sATL]

I thought  Gilselle's reply to the producer regarding the "how many children" question was very classy and kinda prepared -ie like she has given a formal statement before...

"I decided I am not speaking on children I did not give birth to. Because It is not fair to them, nor their mothers. The end".

Since most of the children are minors, it was a nice thing to say on their behalf.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by sATL

[Baltimore Betty]

My take away on this episode is this:

Ashley is telling Michael that she will soon be out of there so let's get the paperwork started, he is in full agreement.

Monique's PR team should have had her on the first plane to some spa for a detox and mindful whatever leaving behind a note to Candiace and the other housewives apologizing and asking for their prayers while she tries to better herself.

I find it interesting that Ashley was in the ladies room the whole time the fight was going on,  she sounded oddly fake when she was asking what had happened.

Jamal says he bought the restaurant for his girls, if I were Gizelle I would have asked to see the paperwork. They go to Atlanta to see the place, there are about ten customers in the place (it could have been an in between time for meals) they all cruise thru the kitchen sans hair nets...the next day there is a large crowd for the rebranding, does Gizelle not know what a friends and family opening is, nobody was paying for their meal, typically they try to work out issues with a new menu or what have you also they all wanted to see Jamal, Gizelle and kids so yes, there was a crowd of pre selected people.  Did we ever learn what changes were made to a corporate restaurant that sets the menus, hiring structures, pricing, decor, etc...

Father Gizelle and kids are not really feeling Jamal and Mom getting back together, Gizelle knows it and is forcing the one big happy family scenario for the sake of a story line.  Her house looks awful and she has too much stuff, everywhere.

What did Jamal do for his other children that would ensure a good work ethic, legacy, what have you?

Karen and Ray will be fine, clearly all he wants is a home cooked meal now and then. Was Karen taking the price stickers off of the pots and pans before the chef came over?  She should Blue Apron or some other kind of meal kit,  Ray would think she is a rock star in the kitchen.  

 

[drivethroo]

12 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

What was her end game? To truly physically harm Candiace? Because that's what it seemed to me to be - she was bound and determined not just to put her hands on Candiace but to actually hurt her. And quite honestly, I think that is more than we have ever really seen before, even by someone like Porsha. In other words, I think Porsha was upset and let her anger get out of hand but I actually don't think Porsha wanted to actually physically damage Kenya in the long run.  Monique seemed bound and determined to actually harm Candiace and if I were Candiace, I too would say "no, I am never going to be around this person again." I am not sure I can blame Gizelle for saying that, either. 

1, to physically hurt Candiace.  Otherwise she wouldn't have told Karen & Ashley that if she saw Candiace again she would kill her (which is why Karen was trying to hush her up) and she wouldn't have told Wendy, Robyn & Gizelle they better not bring Candiace around again or she would kill her.

2, to snatch Candiace's wig off her head on national TV.

 

 

[njbchlover]

I don't know what the heck Monique was doing with her trainer while not actually "training", but damn - whatever they're doing while she's working out must be working. 

She's pretty strong if she was able to hold onto Candiace's hair while four big guys and Karen tried to separate them.  

[Jel]

2 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I agree that these were so incredibly troubling. I don't understand what Monique's expectations were at the point where about 10 people are on you telling you to let go and when you are being physically restrained by members of production staff. What was her end game? To truly physically harm Candiace? Because that's what it seemed to me to be - she was bound and determined not just to put her hands on Candiace but to actually hurt her. And quite honestly, I think that is more than we have ever really seen before, even by someone like Porsha. In other words, I think Porsha was upset and let her anger get out of hand but I actually don't think Porsha wanted to actually physically damage Kenya in the long run.  Monique seemed bound and determined to actually harm Candiace and if I were Candiace, I too would say "no, I am never going to be around this person again." I am not sure I can blame Gizelle for saying that, either. 

The "she's no angel" stuff just seems like another excuse to defend the indefensible. I don't think anyone here thinks Candiace is an "innocent victim" when it comes to her bad relationships. Hell, I don't even think Candiace thinks that.  She said as much talking to Chris in the car ride home.  But actual adults don't resolve their conflicts with the kind of anger that Monique showed last night. 

Monique was well within her rights to say she doesn't consider Candiace a friend and to stop interacting with her.  But no, the person who WOULDN'T LET GO of another person's hair despite several people trying to pull her off and seemingly was interested in continuing to physically harm that other person IS the worse person. No amount of spinning about Candiace - who mostly just being an annoying jerk of a person - and her behavior is going to make her come off as "worse" here, in my opinion. 

I don't even like Candiace but what's the worst thing she's done this year - invite Charisse to a party? Try to talk to Ashley away from the group about her husband? Be a little annoying at a wine-tasting? Sorry, none of that rises to the level of assault, in my book. 

Unless you're Canadian, there's no need to apologize  ;)

If you read my post, you'll notice I said, immediately, that Monique was wrong to get physical. Nothing I said after that negates that. But, to me, the physical assault is kind of a base, action-reaction, childish reaction. It was wrong,  but I can at least understand the motivation: you hurt me; I hurt you back.  Candiace's invitation to that party seemed calculated and intentionally designed to either hurt Monique, or to dismiss any bad consequence for Monique because Candiace was going to get something out of it personally.  Both types of behavior is wrong, but if I had to pick (and I hope I never do), *I* will take the hair pull over the betrayal any day.YMMV.

Monique should have been smart enough to see what Candiace did with the party invite that was so much more than a mere invitation, and then immediately lowered her expectations, closed up ranks and kept any further interactions with Candiace at "cordial only", very surface. But she didn't or wasn't able to do that. Sure, fine, that's also on her.  But while Candiace is no match for Monique physically, it seems to me that Monique is no match for Candiace psychologically, emotionally and cognitively.  Beyond school yard bullying, in adult world, who is really at the disadvantage there? Not Candiace, because the law is going to agree with physical assault being wrong -- and there's no law against shady bitch moves. 

Also, I'm not spinning anything. I'm just relaying how I interpret the events, and the potential motivations behind them.  If I had to choose a friend, I'd choose Monique over Candiace because I think Candiace is a very calculating person, and that scares me more.  JMO.

[Boofish]

Why is everyone acting like women who marry well should be grateful for him .. his ass getting something out the deal as well. What happened with Candiace aside - Chris got a beautiful wife, 3 gorgeous kids. Monique is no slouch; everyone saying Chris can do better, hell so can Monique and Ashley for that matter! Monique seemed like she was down to earth and didn't take herself too seriously until she contracted Housewife Syndrome. 

I did not marry a poor man and I don't care who knows it or what they think. I didn't live 53 years only to marry a man with no assets. Financial stability was on my vision board. I'm not about to struggle. Didn't struggle without you and for damn sure not about to struggle with you. If this was a 30 year marriage and sickness or something catastrophic happened that is a different perspective. But I sought out a man who had means. Not ashamed and wouldn't change a thing. Call it gold digging if you want *Kayne shrug* 

 

[drivethroo]

I think Candiace inviting Charrisse to the party is only part of it.  I think Monique is deeply hurt Candiace doesn't see her as a friend in a way Monique saw her.  One thing that's stood out this season is how many times Monique has complained about Candiace not giving her a "heads up":

• Charrisse's party
• Dropping out of the podcast
• Pow wow with Ashley

Candiace not giving her a heads up about anything deeply hurt her but she's not capable enough of saying that to Candiace.  (But she should've known who and what Candiace was all about with the Katie/Amistad comments and there was some situation with text messages).  I think Monique flashed back to her days in the hood where if you got bested by your enemy you were seen as weak and a punk and fair game and she wasn't going to let that happen to her in front of the group.  But this group doesn't respect fists, so...

7 minutes ago, Boofish said:

Why is everyone acting like women who marry well should be grateful for him

Because men with means can always find a replacement quickly.  Women without their own means*, not so much.  Chris gets a gorgeous wife & beautiful kids and the gorgeous wife makes him look better.  When Monique stops making him look better and if that image is very important to him, then she's gotta go and he will have a new wife within a few years.  Monique with 3 small kids? Not so much.

*Women with means aren't trying to get married.

[bichonblitz]

14 hours ago, Stats Queen said:

And no Gizelle, One restaurant does not make generational wealth.

Jamal running some kind of game giving a restaurant (in Atlanta) to his daughters (who live in Potomac) is some kind of shady. He hasn't changed a bit and their daughter's and Gizelle's dad know it. After 12 years Gizelle really wants to start over with him? I'm so disappointed in her.  She can't say they're getting back together for the kids because those kids don't give a shit about daddy coming back.  

[Boofish]

13 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Because men with means can always find a replacement quickly.  Women without their own means*, not so much.  Chris gets a gorgeous wife & beautiful kids and the gorgeous wife makes him look better.  When Monique stops making him look better and if that image is very important to him, then she's gotta go and he will have a new wife within a few years.  Monique with 3 small kids? Not so much.

*Women with means aren't trying to get married.

So can a broke fool .. Men with or without means don't need a reason. If they want to go - they will.  This seems to most apply to black women who marry well. No offense to you personally but it's a tired old trope and I for one will not celebrate a narrative where we are not considered a prize or worthy.