MAFS Social Media, Spoilers & Speculation

[MommyToMyCats]

A few observations... More so than the 2 prior seasons, this season seems practically bereft of true (reliable) spoilers. All I've read are unsubstantiated rumors, gossip, and speculation. The alleged spoilers have no indicia of reliability, e.g. no mention of the source, no earlier spoilers which haven proven true to make it seem likely the current spoilers might also be true, no definitive verification of any of the allegations being presented as fact. One also gets the sense some of the supposed spoilers are being planted not to truly spoil anything, but because the people who claim to have the info are just enjoying the attention. Oh well, guess we'll just have to wait until the end to find out what happens! As fun as spoilers can be, suspense can be kind of fun, too. (-:

Two, regarding the location of Ashley and David's honeymoon being support for a criminal history of some sort....the US Virgin Islands, where the other two couples went, is a US territory. No passport required, no different than traveling to another state. Thus, if David was able to leave GA for AZ, he could have left GA for the USVI.

Three, the tweet warning Ashley about David's arrest and "conviction" doesn't ring true because, well, even assuming the AZ court record is for "our" David, he wasn't convicted...and therefore, the tweet is not in fact true. A conviction occurs only when one pleads not guilty and after trial is found to be guilty. Whomever is referenced in the court records appears to have entered what we would call a "no contest" please in my state and agreed to fulfill certain conditions in exchange for same. This is FAR different from a conviction.

Four, I have no idea how the production company could prove that Ashley, or Jamie, or anyone for that matter, participated in the show in bad faith such that they could meet the required burden of proof for breach of contract. The only person who knows my true intentions is me, and it would be damn near impossible for anyone to prove otherwise. I had a boyfriend who I now want to make jealous...yeah, never going to be able to prove that. I wasn't really ready for marriage? Can't prove that either. This, of course, assuming their contracts actually require these things. (I personally haven't seen a MAFS contract to confirm what is/isn't included).

Five, I keep seeing people saying they're saving screen shots of things on social media, but I can't figure out for what purpose. Sincerely curious...what would you ever do with them? The only thing I can think of is maybe to send them to the show participants to point out inaccuracies is what they've said, but that seems over the top and kind of pointless, as I have a difficult time imagining any of them responding, "Hey, thanks for showing me those. You're right...I AM a total hypocrite." Lol

Finally, a quick look at the different twitter accounts of the participants is a bit disturbing, honestly. There are so many people who seem obsessed with them, in a way that just seems out of proportion with reality. They obviously don't actually know any of them...and at the end of the day, first and foremost, this is just a TV show...

Edited February 18, 2016 by MommyToMyCats

[ohsrysly]

I don't know if anyone has discussed/pointed this out yet so I apologize if they have.  I've been lurking for a while without posting but I just noticed something so I wanted to post it.  The arrest record lists a birthday of 05/1985.  On the show David is said to be 29.  The couples were married in June of 2015.  If the birthday on the arrest record is correct then David would be 30 at the time of filming.  I suppose the arrest record birthday could be wrong but I doubt it.  It also seems unlikely that David would lie about his age on the show but I guess he could.  Seems like it may be a different guy...

[Nffftshewasgone]

I don't know if anyone has discussed/pointed this out yet so I apologize if they have. I've been lurking for a while without posting but I just noticed something so I wanted to post it. The arrest record lists a birthday of 05/1985. On the show David is said to be 29. The couples were married in June of 2015. If the birthday on the arrest record is correct then David would be 30 at the time of filming. I suppose the arrest record birthday could be wrong but I doubt it. It also seems unlikely that David would lie about his age on the show but I guess he could. Seems like it may be a different guy...

YUP!

And, Welcome!

Edited February 18, 2016 by Drogo
Duplicate post removed.

[sniglet]

I don't know if anyone has discussed/pointed this out yet so I apologize if they have. I've been lurking for a while without posting but I just noticed something so I wanted to post it. The arrest record lists a birthday of 05/1985. On the show David is said to be 29. The couples were married in June of 2015. If the birthday on the arrest record is correct then David would be 30 at the time of filming. I suppose the arrest record birthday could be wrong but I doubt it. It also seems unlikely that David would lie about his age on the show but I guess he could. Seems like it may be a different guy...

This has already been addressed. Cast bios were likely written prior to the weddings and released just before the show aired. It is not uncommon in the reality tv world for packages to get put together early. 5 years from now his bio will still say he's 29. David has said that his father died when he was 7. His father died (according to the tombstone) on 9/23/92, meaning David's birthday would have to be sometime between 9/24/84 and 9/23/85. At one point during their argument about the text message, Ashley says, "I want you to talk to me like a 30 year-old man". Also there's this:

starsmoonandsun ‏@starsmoonandsun

@David_MAFS may I have your zodiac sign?

David Norton

David Norton – Verified account ‏@David_MAFS

@starsmoonandsun Taurus, why do you ask?

8:04 PM - 8 Feb 2016

 

This narrows it down to late April/early May - meaning he turned 30 a month before the wedding.

Edited February 18, 2016 by sniglet

[ctbabe]

A few observations... More so than the 2 prior seasons, this season seems practically bereft of true (reliable) spoilers. All I've read are unsubstantiated rumors, gossip, and speculation. The alleged spoilers have no indicia of reliability, e.g. no mention of the source, no earlier spoilers which haven proven true to make it seem likely the current spoilers might also be true, no definitive verification of any of the allegations being presented as fact. One also gets the sense some of the supposed spoilers are being planted not to truly spoil anything, but because the people who claim to have the info are just enjoying the attention. Oh well, guess we'll just have to wait until the end to find out what happens! As fun as spoilers can be, suspense can be kind of fun, too. (-:

Five, I keep seeing people saying they're saving screen shots of things on social media, but I can't figure out for what purpose. Sincerely curious...what would you ever do with them? The only thing I can think of is maybe to send them to the show participants to point out inaccuracies is what they've said, but that seems over the top and kind of pointless, as I have a difficult time imagining any of them responding, "Hey, thanks for showing me those. You're right...I AM a total hypocrite." Lol

Finally, a quick look at the different twitter accounts of the participants is a bit disturbing, honestly. There are so many people who seem obsessed with them, in a way that just seems out of proportion with reality. They obviously don't actually know any of them...and at the end of the day, first and foremost, this is just a TV show...

1. It's not feasible to cite one's source. If I reveal my source's identity, I would definitely lose. My source stays in ATL and knows both Ashley and David. Most of the spoiler had to be sanitized to avoid putting our source in trouble. If I wanted attention, I would put my full name in the post. It's left to the readers to determine which part they believe. I am also hoping some parts are not true but a couple of things our source said has already be proven true. Remember this is the spoiler page, what would become of this page without spoilers.

2. Most people on this forum are not on facebook and twitter. Information are more authentic and believeable when seen in their natural form instead of when paraphrased. Remember you just said you dont really believe spoilers when the source isnt cited. I also don't think anyone here sends it to the participants but I could be wrong.

3. I don't understand why people would following the participants SM account, leave unwanted/insulting comments.. it's fine to talk about them in a forum but to personal attack anyone of them is so wrong.

Edited February 18, 2016 by ctbabe

[Snarklepuss]

Thank you. I'm so old.

I remember when there were just bars and alcohol, but no models.

 

You're obviously too young to remember the cigarette girls, but they were before my time too as I've only seen them in old movies.

[ctbabe]

An article about David's arrest:

http://okhereisthesituation.com/2016/02/appears-like-married-first-sight-david-norton-arrest-record/

Anyone can write an article/blog on a gossip website, It doesn't make it true.. SM 101.

For example I can write about how Ashley was a prostitute in 2010 and it's absolutely false but a handful of reader tend to believe everything written on the internet is true.

BTW when the website ends the article with 'who knows', it's all a rumor..

We've discussed the DN possible arrest record several pages back, over and over. Until someone can definitely say it is him (and don't you think the tabloids would have done so if they could?), it seems pointless to me and makes me very uncomfortable (as if we are stalking David) to bring it up. I actually feel the same way about researching Ashleys' past from 7 years ago. YMMV

I totally feel that way too.. can we just conclude that if it's really them, they both did less than stellar things while young. How about we focus on what happened from the wedding till now? Just saying.

Edited February 18, 2016 by ctbabe

[qtpye]

Could David address the arrest record?  I mean it has nothing to do with the show and does not seem to breach any agreement he probably signed. 

 

I just hate to see someone's name get dragged through the mud, unless there is solid proof.

 

If the arrest does apply to the David Norton on the show, then the show really is shitty for not doing background checks.  However, I will still judge Ashley on her nasty behavior, because his arrest does not excuse how she conducted herself on the show.

[ProzacQueen]

In the last 4-5 years you can find mug shots of people arrested on the internet.  However, depending on where you are arrested some states did not publicize mug shots over 5 years ago.   So could that be why it is not available?  I have family with similar situations.

I'm scared to look for my mugshot. I got arrested for underage drinking when I was 19. It was on Halloween, and I was in a Queen Nefertiti (or as I called myself Queen Neverhavetitties) costume and makeup. I even remember doing that drunk, "I LOOK FABULOUS" smile for my mugshot (you know, where the beer goggles affect your own reflection, so you think you look amazing, but in reality your fake eyelash is barely hanging on, and your eyeliner is down to your chin). My mom left me in jail for HOURS, so long that I had to go to court, in front of a judge, to get a talking to.

 

In all honesty, I refuse to look for that mugshot, in earnest. I have looked at the sites that put up funny/awkward/etc mugshots, and mine isn't there, so I revel in my delusion, that my aforementioned mugshot, ceases to exist. I sure as heck don't google myself using my maiden name, to see if it pops up.

Edited February 18, 2016 by ProzacQueen

[Snarklepuss]

Could David address the arrest record?  I mean it has nothing to do with the show and does not seem to breach any agreement he probably signed.

 

I know I was just coming here to post that myself.  If this is truly a spoiler thread why don't one of our sleuths ask him point blank about it?  I'd see if I could get a response out of him but I'm frightfully busy these days at work.

[stuckin60s]

Mommytomycats, thank you.

 

I would like to add a little more.  Who Cares?   If David did this 10 years ago, he was wrong and wouldn't have been arrested unless had too much to drink, hit a wall, made a scene etc.  If David did this 10 years ago, he was punished.  If David did this 10 years ago he hasn't done it since and probably learned his lesson.  We have not seen any temper at all (editing)

 

I don't think any of us could stand to have the public scrutiny and research into our pasts.

 

I think we are getting terribly close to crossing the line.  This could affect possible current and future employment. If I were David and someone he didn't know asked about this, I would appreciate it at all.

 

Perhaps the production did a background search and didn't go back far enough.  Her family didn't know his name ( unless they got an insider to talk) so they couldn't have done an intensive search prior to the wedding.

 

Remember Seans big arrest and mugshot was from a DUI

 

My husband was picked up for drunk and disorderly conduct when he was 19 and in college.  He told me right before our wedding, sobbing that he hadn't told me before.  He was 30 when we married.  I thanked him and we are still together.

 

I am not condoning DV against anyone

[Snarklepuss]

I think we are getting terribly close to crossing the line.  This could affect possible current and future employment. If I were David and someone he didn't know asked about this, I would appreciate it at all.

 

I think the kind of companies David works for would probably have done background checks on him during the hiring process, and if it's that easy for anyone to find arrest records, I'm sure they knew/know about it and don't care.  It's something so minor when he was young that I'm sure his employers aren't making the huge mountain out of a molehill that some people online are.  I mean, even our own freaking PRESIDENT admitted he smoked pot when he was young, surely David's employers would not take his one time offense when he was young that seriously!

[tinypeanut]

Could David address the arrest record?  I mean it has nothing to do with the show and does not seem to breach any agreement he probably signed. 

Good question.  If you are being slandered by a lie why wouldn't you address it publicly?

Edited February 18, 2016 by tinypeanut

[BBDi]

Good question. If you are being slandered by a lie why wouldn't you address it publicly?

Well, it has not been brought up on the show - if it had I would expect David and the producers to address it on the show.

It's just rumor at this point. If it's true perhaps he will discuss it in some venue.

I'm of 2 minds about it myself. I feel that the show absolutely is obligated to do a very thorough background check before they put 2 strangers together. If they didn't, they fucked up. I wonder if there are things in the other 5 contestants' pasts that haven't been investigated or disclosed either.

At the same time, if it's true I don't think an incident like this in the past with no subsequent incidents is a huge deal - though would be worth disclosing to a partner.

[interestedinMAFS]

Hi.  New here, but the discussion of David's possible arrest record got me interested enough to post instead of just read.  About 12 years ago, my brother in law was arrested and tried for domestic violence charges.  He REFUSED to plead guilty (because he wasn't) and instead took his case to a jury.  Had he pled guilty, it would have been to the charges similar to David's.  He was advised by his attorney to plead guilty because people would "never" believe he wasn't guilty and the "best" thing was to plead guilty, pay a small fine, and attend domestic violence classes...simple and done.  

 

A bit of background.  My BIL is over 6 feet and runs around 200.  His now ex-wife is tiny...around 5'2" and weighs maybe 100 pound soaking wet.  She was a complete and utter nut case, as I personally witnessed over the years.  She would extinguish her cigarettes ON my BIL's arm (yes, that's true).  She was verbally abusive.  She was psychotic as hell (a total nut job) and would turn on a dime from sweet and innocent to the most evil witch you can conjure up.  I do believe she had mental health issues.  It all came to a head one night when they had a verbal altercation, started by her (according to BIL) and he decided she was escalating and that the safest course of action was to leave the home.  So he did.  She JUMPED on his back to stop him from leaving.  He "shrugged" her off, and she fell, breaking a bone in her arm (she has brittle bone disease).  She said "give me a divorce and all the $$$ and the house or I will accuse you of domestic violence."  He left.  She had him arrested.  

 

A jury deliberated for less than 10 minutes after hearing her testify, him testify and numerous witnesses to her abusive behavior over the years.  The believed HIM not her.  And, he was acquitted.  But, there it is on his record that he was charged with domestic violence.  Never before.   Never since.  Never.  Yet, it haunts him even though he was found "not guilty."  The only thing he was guilty of was having the bad sense to marry her.  She was just completely wacky....for years.    Thank goodness he didn't plead, or everyone would "assume" that he must have done something horrible to her.  He didn't.  I am no apologist for domestic violence offenders, but he WAS innocent!

 

Who knows what happened with David?  Honestly, unless you were there, you don't know what happened or didn't happen with David.  All I can tell you is that people DO make up claims of domestic violence.  

[Snarklepuss]

Good question.  If you are being slandered by a lie why wouldn't you address it publicly?

 

Even if it's the truth (and I personally think it is given what I've read here and elsewhere on it), basically he got charged with disorderly conduct after possibly having a drunken row with his girlfriend.  BFD.  Seriously - Who hasn't had a drunken fight with their SO, only in this case perhaps the girlfriend had it in for him and called the cops?  My record is so clean it squeaks but I'd be lying if I said I never had a huge row with Mr. Snarklepuss back when we were very young.  Also, cops these days make mountains out of molehills.  Geesh, I got pulled over for speeding 3 years ago and you'd think I just robbed a bank the way they act anymore.  In decades past they would have seen the two of them so young and given them some fatherly advice and a warning that if it happened again they'd get a bigger slap on the wrist.  No arrest, no nothing.  So this is a huge issue made out of absolutely NOTHING.  There have been no future arrests, no record of any kind.  David has not once shown any signs of an anger problem on the show, unlike Ryan D, so to me this is a total non-issue made into a huge ridiculous deal just because there isn't anything else to rag on about the guy.  I don't blame him for not saying anything about it, because no matter what he says there are people who are going to make him into some huge criminal for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

[Jack Sampson]

He was advised by his attorney to plead guilty because people would "never" believe he wasn't guilty and the "best" thing was to plead guilty, pay a small fine, and attend domestic violence classes...simple and done.

These days, the accusation alone is enough to ruin someone's life.

[Snarklepuss]

But he was charged with disorderly conduct, he wasn't charged with physical abuse of any kind.  Disorderly conduct usually means there was foul language and disturbing the peace involved, so maybe the only reason he was charged is that the fight took place in a public place.  But let's not confuse this with the kind of "domestic violence" that involves physical abuse.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[sniglet]

But he was charged with disorderly conduct, he wasn't charged with physical abuse of any kind.  Disorderly conduct usually means there was foul language and disturbing the peace involved, so maybe the only reason he was charged is that the fight took place in a public place.  But let's not confuse this with the kind of "domestic violence" that involves physical abuse.

This was posted on another forum by someone else.  Providing for clarification.

 

According to AZ law and plea deals involving property destruction and/or violence in conjunction with a partner, spouse, friend or family member. Domestic Violence, including assault can be tried as a misdemeanor.  This means pleading to a crime with a lesser penalty. Such a defendant's record would likely show either a conviction for assault in the 3rd degree , a misdemeanor, or for harassment, property destruction, disorderly conduct or a petty misdemeanor. The criminal history of these defendants will contain no record of any violation of Domestic Violence, but the charges fall within the legal definition of Domestic Violence.

Here's a link to AZ law regarding Domestic Violence which explains the definition and classifications.

http://apaac.az.gov/images/stories/DV/APAAC%20-DV.pdf

This link will explain the nuances of Domestic Violence and how a victim is defined.

Edited February 18, 2016 by sniglet

[Koda1969]

Have to agree with the thoughts about the supposed arrest record. We just don't know one, if it's truly him, and two, the true nature of the situation. My brother had a very similar situation to what interestedinMAFS points out above, including the nutbag ex-wife. She was a total basket case behind closed doors, when the need arose, she could turn on the water works to make herself out to be a perfect victim. She even threw herself down the stairs once, and claimed he beat her! The reason I know, is that after the fact, she laughed about it to me and my mom!!

 

And yes, Jack Sampson, just the allegation nowadays can ruin your life. Because of what my brother's ex did, it haunts him to this day. He has to constantly explain that the charges were dropped, etc. But still..there are a handful of people that refuse to believe it was made up and think he's an abuser.

 

Having been married to an abusive alcoholic myself, to the point where he beat me when I was pregnant and I miscarried (and yes, that's when I finally left him)...I don't agree that the term abusive should be so readily thrown out, especially when it can (and does) affect those accused.

 

But, I should also stress, that if it really is the case than the abuser does need to face repercussions. I guess my point, is to be sure what you're doing before you make allegations.

[visaidso]

I have worked in law enforcememt in Texas for years and in the old days when someone would get cited/arrested for a fight they would have to take anger management classes.  Those classes were often called BIPP classes, which stood for Batteres Intervention Prevention Program, as it was mostly geared toward DV/FV cases.  Is it possible that that is just the code for the class he had to take?  

 

Again, not sure if it is him.  He has a super common name and I would hate to think a show that I watch is putting their participants in any kind of danger like that. 

[Snarklepuss]

This was posted on another forum by someone else.  Providing for clarification.

 

According to AZ law and plea deals involving property destruction and/or violence in conjunction with a partner, spouse, friend or family member. Domestic Violence, including assault can be tried as a misdemeanor.  This means pleading to a crime with a lesser penalty. Such a defendant's record would likely show either a conviction for assault in the 3rd degree , a misdemeanor, or for harassment, property destruction, disorderly conduct or a petty misdemeanor. The criminal history of these defendants will contain no record of any violation of Domestic Violence, but the charges fall within the legal definition of Domestic Violence.

Here's a link to AZ law regarding Domestic Violence which explains the definition and classifications.

http://apaac.az.gov/images/stories/DV/APAAC%20-DV.pdf

This link will explain the nuances of Domestic Violence and how a victim is defined.

 

I see enough choices under "misdemeanor" to account for any physical endangerment that might have happened so he could have been charged with that and it would still be classified as a misdemeanor without a plea deal necessary.  And there's no evidence of any plea deal in his case so far so it just looks to me like he was charged to fit the crime.  And as it was a first offense, he just got to go to DV classes.  Just because it was disorderly conduct within a domestic situation is why he got sent to DV classes because it falls under that loose classification under AZ state law, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he was guilty of a greater offense as defined by AZ state law and just charged with a lesser one due to a plea deal.

[sniglet]

I see enough choices under "misdemeanor" to account for any physical endangerment that might have happened so he could have been charged with that and it would still be classified as a misdemeanor without a plea deal necessary.  And there's no evidence of any plea deal in his case so far so it just looks to me like he was charged to fit the crime.  And as it was a first offense, he just got to go to DV classes.  Just because it was disorderly conduct within a domestic situation is why he got sent to DV classes because it falls under that loose classification under AZ state law, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he was guilty of a greater offense as defined by AZ state law and just charged with a lesser one due to a plea deal.

A plea deal was entered on 10/2/2007.  It's in the court records.

[Drogo]

Snipe at the show, not at each other. 

[ctbabe]

2 criminal defense lawyers have reviewed this case and they both said that this case is more of disorderly conduct but people are known to cut weird deals with prosecutors.

I just feel that people are hoping that this true so we can excuse Ashley's bad behavior. If this is true, maybe he shouldn't have been casted. Should we hold a 10yrs allegation against someone without knowing the fact.

Edited February 18, 2016 by ctbabe

[sniglet]

I just feel that people are hoping that this true so we can excuse Ashley's bad behavior. If this is true, maybe he shouldn't have been casted.

 

I'm speaking only for myself here, but my beef is entirely with production and casting.  Not with David.  Not with Ashley.  If it's true, it is despicable that they would cast someone with a criminal record that may include a violent offense towards a live-in partner for a show involving arranged marriage.  ESPECIALLY after last season's fiasco resulting in a restraining order between ex-spouses.

Edited February 18, 2016 by sniglet

[ctbabe]

I'm speaking only for myself here, but my beef is entirely with production and casting. Not with David. Not with Ashley. If it's true, it is despicable that they would cast someone with a criminal record that may include a violent offense towards a live-in partner. ESPECIALLY after last season's fiasco resulting in a restraining order between ex-spouses.

Ok.. I understand your point. I just want us to be very sure of what happened before we destroy someone's life. We may be after the production Company but they would nt suffer the consequences to these allegation, if they are false. David will

[Evil Queen]

2 criminal defense lawyers have reviewed this case and they both said that this case is more of disorderly conduct but people are known to cut weird deals with prosecutors.

I just feel that people are hoping that this true so we can excuse Ashley's bad behavior. If this is true, maybe he shouldn't have been casted. Should we hold a 10yrs allegation against someone without knowing the fact.

 

This is the thing. IF it is him, it is so old at this point. The only thing to look at is after the fact. Did he have other charges over the years between then and now? If not it was most likely a stupid mistake that was never repeated. If this had to do with an old girlfriend, sometimes certain people together bring out things that normally wouldn't happen. As the saying goes you don't mix oil with water. Some people live and learn from those type of situations and some rinse, wash and repeat but don't learn. Now someone that repeated or had other arrests happen after the fact should not have been cast on this show. BUT I can't see him having the jobs he has if he was to have a rap sheet or was seen as a risk. I would bet his jobs have done background/credit checks because the type of jobs they are. Now aside from all that, it would NOT be any excuse for Ashley's behavior at all. There was no way she knew when she say him what his background was or anything else. All she say was what he looked like and that was it for her. After seeing 2 different guys she was pictured with here, I only see that he wasn't dark haired as the difference between her type. SMH I will bet they found out after the filming of the show and were just trying to find anyway they could to try to place blame on someone else rather then accept it herself and admit she should have been more friendly instead of a closed off bitch during filming or that she was doing something else when not filming and she was the guilty party on certain things instead (IF those rumors are true). In the end this shows though another reason why SM can be such a bad thing IMO. As well as, who is to say she is squeaky clean on anything in her life or any other person on the show at this point? Things happen in life. Yet we only have this thing about if this is or not David because Ashley's camp or whoever put it out there to take heat off her. So no one has looked into others on the show because no other person. their family or friends were out there talking crap like that. I'd question them putting someone like Sam on this show because of her verbal abusive behavior and letting that go on and on as it had during it. Right there is a mentally unstable person IMO that should not be on this show at all. Yet they let her get by somehow. I'd wonder what her background is myself with that kind of behavior more then someone like David who hasn't shown signs of aggression at all towards Ashley. Just my thoughts on it all. 

[Snarklepuss]

2 criminal defense lawyers have reviewed this case and they both said that this case is more of disorderly conduct but people are known to cut weird deals with prosecutors.

I just feel that people are hoping that this true so we can excuse Ashley's bad behavior. If this is true, maybe he shouldn't have been casted. Should we hold a 10yrs allegation against someone without knowing the fact.

 

ITA, we don't know the circumstances surrounding the accusation.  He may have explained it to the show producers and they were satisfied that he's not some kind of hothead or abuser.  Charges like this don't tell the full story, which he could have explained to everyone's satisfaction.  The girlfriend could have taken a swing at him and he being drunk swung back.  Something he would NEVER do under normal circumstances or 10 years later.  Or maybe she was lying because she was angry with him, who knows?  I don't like to blame victims but I'm just illustrating that we may not know the full circumstances.  We don't even know what it was that he supposedly DID in the first place!  How can we throw the book at him for something when we don't even know THAT?

 

Just like me being pulled over for speeding doesn't explain why I was speeding - In my case I was chasing after a moving van with all my stuff in it that was following me to my new place.  They missed the turn to my street and went careening off into the sunset.  Phone calls to the driver were unsuccessful at getting him to understand how to get to my house.  So I told them to stay put and was trying to catch up to them.  I think under those circumstances anyone might speed.  BTW, getting pulled over prevented me from catching up to them, which caused me a huge hassle in that the van didn't find its way back for another hour and a half and we were unloading furniture until past midnight - I was EXHAUSTED by then.  BTW, I beat the ticket with my story believe it or not, but had to donate money to a charity which was fine with me.

[Aethera]

Folks, this discussion has gotten very heated, and a bit frenzied as well. We've had to hide posts on multiple occasions. We understand dissecting the lives of these folks is fascinating, and I love gossip as much as the next person, but it's time we agree to disagree on David & Ashley until we get more concrete facts from the show or from the news. Playing armchair detective is fun, but at this point, I think we've exhausted things. As others have pointed out, we don't know whether this is the right David, and we don't know all of the context surrounding the case. This is the Speculation thread, yes, but when everyone is going after each other for their respective guesses, this ceases to be fun reading for most people here.

We love spirited discussion here, but this thread is crossing the line into incivility too often. So let's all take a deep breath and walk away from this subject for a little while, please, until another shoe drops. If incivility continues, we'll have to lock the thread, and we really don't want to do that. Thanks.

 

(And please, if you have a comment on this mod note, send Drogo, FrenchToast & Aethera a PM.)

[Jellybeans]

Did anyone see the brief preview in the Jamie Otis thingmajing showing Sam leaving Neil sitting on the couch on decision day? Is that the "twist" alluded to?

By no means do I think that is all that happened but who knows.

[Meliss]

I haven't posted for a few weeks because I needed to sit back & try to see why my opinion of David is soooo different than almost everyone else's. And I promise not to bring it up again because I know the David & Ashley posts are getting old.

So here goes: I previously posted that I found him to be manipulative & childish. I also felt that Ashley could sense this. She was already not attracted to him and then his personality (to me) really bombed. He's super needy & when you get married you want a partner, not a child to take care of.

I actually thought Ashley was considerate & I know I am in a very, very small minority with that opinion. She's quiet & not does not like him--that does not make her a snob or a bitch. I'm so sick of reading this because this is a problem women face in our society - if we do not respond to a man who is "nice" to us, we have the right to be called a bitch. This has happened to me countless times so maybe it offends me more. Its so bad that if I even turn a man down after just meeting him out at a club, it is within his reason & is socially accepted for him to call me profane names as I try to get away from him. Why? I ask fellow posters, why do we put women down because they do not respond to a man's advances??

Again I tried to see it the way you all do & it didn't happen. I felt that he kept getting moodier, more childish, selfish & creepier as the show went on.

I also think he is very good at telling a story (kind of a nice way of saying "making things up."). This has bothered me since the beginning - the story he is trying to sell to the audience makes no sense for a reason--it's not true. He created this in his mind. Again, his actions continued to not jive with words. This, to me, is one of the biggest things I look at when I am trying to decide if I trust someone because talk is cheap (obviously).

I am not an Ashley fan or making excuses for her. She's seems very boring & although we don't know what she was thinking--she should not have signed up for this show. I do not know her & I don't care about her but I do care about how women in general are treated in our society.

On a side note I am with the majority with the opinion that Neil needs to get away from Sam asap. She's scary!!

Moving on:

My biggest issue with the show is with the lack of background checks as well. This was a major problem last year & remains a problem for Jessica. Since the arrest record has not been verified or explained if it is David, we can't jump to any conclusions about it. And I agree that if it is him, I'm pissed at the producers & it has nothing to do with making excuses for Ashley.

Next issue is with the experts but I don't need to go in detail because you all know they suck.

Third, the editing seems biased. I agree with another poster that they seemed to really want to make the men to look like the good guys.

I thought the worst part of the show would be that it makes a mockery out of marriage, but amazingly these producers & experts managed to make the show even more disgusting!

I predict that future seasons will be full of the reality TV type personalities that can really entertain & play up to the camera, but it will have nothing to do with being married -only fame & winning public opinion.

I know I was all over the place in this post & obviously these are my opinions about a TV show & not meant to be snarky towards other posters. I have enjoyed reading everyone's opinions, even if I disagreed with some of them. It'd be pretty boring if we all had the same opinions.

[rab01]

Meliss - if you go into the episode threads, you will find plenty of people with similar takes to yours (albeit not a majority) rather than on this thread where the discussion seems to be largely whether or not a court docket sheet from 8 years ago is about a cast member and, if so, whether it matters ;)

 

That said, my issue with Ashley is not dislike of David -- if that's how she feels, it is more honest to not pretend to like him. My issue with how she acts is a nagging sense that she should never have gone on the show and wondering whether she HAS actually been honest with him.

[stuckin60s]

That said, my issue with Ashley is not dislike of David -- if that's how she feels, it is more honest to not pretend to like him. My issue with how she acts is a nagging sense that she should never have gone on the show and wondering whether she HAS actually been honest with him.

 

rab01. I would like to add that Ashley had told the experts she always went for the same type and it don't work out well, she was willing for another look. 

 

Sam - I still cannot forget how she behaved at the wedding, dancing with her dress up, laying on the floor, talking with food hanging out of her mouth.  Anxiety yes, not that   that was something totally different

 

Vanessa - beautiful at the wedding, fun and flirty, turned into a whiney blob.  Even Tres made a comment about her giggling while horseback riding

[tinypeanut]

Meliss

 

You are correct that 95% of posters seem to love David and hate Ashley.  I don't get it. 

 

Ashley should have never been on this show and how she got by the experts is anyone's guess.  David is a saint according to almost everyone who watches the show.  Ashley crossed Saint David and she shall be torched at the stake for how she treated the nicest guy to ever walk the earth.  I don't get it.

 

I don't hate Ashley and I don't understand all the I love David, I will date David and I will marry David. 

 

When a spoiler is found or written about Ashley it is CONFIRMED to be the truth but when spoilers are written about David it is coming from Ashley's camp.  I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle. 

 

To me David seems needy and there is something about him that seems fake.  Of course, everyone will says he is coming across that way because of how Ashley is treating him.  No, I sense a salesman fakeness.  You know, the one who says and does anything and everything to close the deal.

 

This season can not be over fast enough and I have a feeling only one couple will be together after a year.  Season 4 will probably mirror this one.   The script is written and in place and the characters will fall into their roles.

[stuckin60s]

Apologies - obviously I don't know how to copy a post

[okerry]

I actually thought Ashley was considerate & I know I am in a very, very small minority with that opinion. She's quiet & not does not like him--that does not make her a snob or a bitch. I'm so sick of reading this because this is a problem women face in our society - if we do not respond to a man who is "nice" to us, we have the right to be called a bitch. This has happened to me countless times so maybe it offends me more. Its so bad that if I even turn a man down after just meeting him out at a club, it is within his reason & is socially accepted for him to call me profane names as I try to get away from him. Why? I ask fellow posters, why do we put women down because they do not respond to a man's advances??

 

 

***I completely agree with you. I've had strange men yelling at me in mall parking lots when I didn't return their unsolicited attention. It was infuriating and scary. And online dating is a cesspool of angry, nasty men who accuse women of "playing games" and far worse if you don't immediately return their interest with instant delight and offers to meet.

I'm still not sure Ashley wasn't hung up on the old boyfriend, but I'd say if a bride is that disinterested in her groom after a few days *for any reason* the Show needs to cut their losses and put a stop to it right then. Otherwise, it's just too painful to watch. They could get another couple to fill in.

Edited February 18, 2016 by okerry

[Evil Queen]

That said, my issue with Ashley is not dislike of David -- if that's how she feels, it is more honest to not pretend to like him. My issue with how she acts is a nagging sense that she should never have gone on the show and wondering whether she HAS actually been honest with him.

 

See my issue was wasn't at all with her not liking him but the fact that as you said is how she acts and her being honest at all. To me she could have not liked him but at least been upfront and said something like she didn't think it would work to make a go of being married but could they be friends....I think if she had and had been decent to him (talking to him) that things would have come off alot different with her. But she isn't a bitch because she doesn't like him. Its because she decided to not even talk to him and get to know him as a friend. Plus I think with him coming off needy as some have seen it, is because of editing plus her not carrying her share of a conversation or anything else for most of the season. I have never had a guy in all my years call me a bitch btw. Never because I didn't want a thing to do with one or because of something I did or said. I have always lived in a large city. So maybe its just where I am compared to some that might have that issue but also there is always ways to go about responding to people as well so that it can't be taken in that context. Tone in a voice or even the look given when saying things or looking at someone can come off in that way. Not saying that is the case with anyone here. Just giving examples of how someone can think that. It goes the other way as well with guys..not just girls. 

 

 

Next issue is with the experts but I don't need to go in detail because you all know they suck.

I thought the worst part of the show would be that it makes a mockery out of marriage, but amazingly these producers & experts managed to make the show even more disgusting!

I predict that future seasons will be full of the reality TV type personalities that can really entertain & play up to the camera, but it will have nothing to do with being married -only fame & winning public opinion.

 

  I agree that experts need to go. They have done more harm then good IMO. That was part of the issues I think with David coming off needy as well. They kept telling him to do this and that. So he would. Then on top it the excuses they make for the behaviors of some is a joke. 

  I also agree that it will becoming about those playing it up for the camera. There will always be those that will do anything (including marrying a stranger) to get their 15 mins of tv time and hope for fame from it. They won't care if they get good or bad attention...just as long as they get that air time sadly. I think there is so many ways this show could be made to come off better and make work for some couples but we all know they rather have it is right now because they may feel any other way would be boring for us to watch. Yet I don't think it would be really. 

[sniglet]

See my issue was wasn't at all with her not liking him but the fact that as you said is how she acts and her being honest at all. To me she could have not liked him but at least been upfront and said something like she didn't think it would work to make a go of being married but could they be friends....

See, this is where I'm 100% convinced that editing played a role. I don't see why she wouldn't say something like that to him, especially after the conversation with Dr. C when all the cards were on the table about her not being attracted to him. As we're all aware, just because it didn't air, doesn't mean it didn't happen. You think the producers would show a conversation on the 3rd or 4th episode that leaves no doubt in the viewers' mind what the conclusion would be? Hell no, they're going to show the parts they want, rile people up, create drama, and count the ratings on decision day.

Edited February 18, 2016 by sniglet

[Evil Queen]

When a spoiler is found or written about Ashley it is CONFIRMED to be the truth but when spoilers are written about David it is coming from Ashley's camp.  I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle. 

 

To me David seems needy and there is something about him that seems fake.  Of course, everyone will says he is coming across that way because of how Ashley is treating him.  No, I sense a salesman fakeness.  You know, the one who says and does anything and everything to close the deal.

 

This season can not be over fast enough and I have a feeling only one couple will be together after a year.  Season 4 will probably mirror this one.   The script is written and in place and the characters will fall into their roles.

 

Let me say this. I don't like how Ashley has been but I have no clue if rumors that have been posted on her are true or not. I try to be careful on how I word things when it comes to rumors or responding to them. I enjoy reading all the things like everyone else but I would never say if what is said on these people is true or not. There are many going both ways saying things are true without proof on anyone. I think more then anything its just some feel it could explain why she acts one way or the other but in the end we have no way to know unless the truth from someone in the couple or with the show let's it all out. With what you said about him being a salesman and fake because of it..well then same could be said for Tres since he is one as well. For me I don't think things like that make the person fake all the time but that is just my opinion on that. 

    I do agree that this season can not get over fast enough. This one has really seemed like it dragged on for way to long. 

[Snarklepuss]

Ashley is arguably lying about her motives for being on the show.  Spoilers are posted here and elsewhere that she signed up to make her ex boyfriend jealous.  That would make perfect sense given her behavior on the show.  She basically ignored David the entire time and did not enter into the process AT ALL, which is something she was probably in breach of contract for because she signed up to make a go of it even if she didn't initially like the guy, but she would have nothing of it.  She acted the entire time like the guy had a disease and she didn't want to get too close to him.  It got so bad that Dr. Pepper even said on screen that she had completely opted out of the process.  Then she and her family and friends rip David apart on social media, dredging up one small offense from his past and making it into a huge deal, all designed to take away the negative attention from her and put it on him instead.  Sorry, sister, but most of the public is not buying into it.  I don't think it would matter if David was a 900 pound ugly child molester, Ashley all by herself would still be a vile excuse for a human being.

[tinypeanut]

I did not say all salesmen were fake.  Tres  is a salesman but does not come across fake to me.  I said David comes across as a fake salesman.   In my job, I work with many sales people.  Some are extremely fake, others genuine and some fall in the middle.

Edited February 18, 2016 by tinypeanut

[Kiss my mutt]

I'm definitely not an Ashley apologist but I think my views on David are fairly similar. I agree with our posters who find David manipulative and insincere. He seems like the type that burst into tears when he didn't get his way growing up citing his dad's death as the reason why his momma should give into him. He still does this. He hadn't even been to his fathers grave in ten years but now it seems like s good idea. He uses his dad as an excuse, I'm sorry, but I can't stand a guy who cries more than me and I'm no stranger to tears.

I can see why Ashley avoids physical contact. He seems like when given an inch, he would take a mile and loves playing the good guy, nice guys finish last victim role.

[Snarklepuss]

I think David seems fake and delusional because he's doing what the producers have told him to do.  What else could he do under the circumstances?  He could have walked out and refused to cooperate but he wanted to do his best to honor the contract.  He could have done nothing but whine and moan about how Ashley is ignoring him but I actually think he was possibly attempting to cover for her and not seem like a malcontent by acting positive about everything.  He could have gone for the jugular but to his credit, he didn't.  For a guy that is suspected of possible anger issues, he definitely dealt with this issue like a real adult if you ask me.  Besides, all the couples act fake on this show, there's nothing different about David.  This show makes them film all sorts of garbage that bears no resemblance to their real relationships.

[Snarklepuss]

David went to his father's grave I am sure because the show wanted him to go there.  When they saw how upset he got about his Dad in that earlier episode, I'll bet they suggested it.  They were looking for any kind of drama they could add to pad out the show.  I don't buy that anything these couples do is genuine.  When the couples bought each other gifts, who did I think made them do it?  Do I really believe that they all just happened to have the same wonderful idea in the same episode and went out to buy each other thoughtful gifts?  Not on your life!  I know producer manipulation when I see it.  Just about the worst I can say about David from what I've seen on this show is that he was very easily manipulated by the producers to do and say whatever they wanted him to.  Other than that it's too hard to say.

[moonxyz]

 

Something is wrong with Neil. he still doesn't get it. What's the point of asking her if she misses you if you're gonna say no. Either he's dumb or he's playing dumb. I think he's playing dumb. 

[Kiss my mutt]

If David is performing like a circus monkey for producers, it's not making me sympathize with him any more.

[Bankergirl]

I agree with Melis, David has always seemed to be trying too hard. In my opinion some are just too hard on Ashley. When you just don't feel it for someone it is so hard to pretend that you do. Maybe she did go on the show to find someone and at first she did seem to be trying a little. How do we know he didn't try to come on to her on the honeymoon. Maybe she recognized the creep factor in his personality and was just plain turned off. I say until you have actually been in her situation it is best to not pass too harsh judgement on the girl.

[rudy10]

David went to his father's grave I am sure because the show wanted him to go there.  When they saw how upset he got about his Dad in that earlier episode, I'll bet they suggested it.  They were looking for any kind of drama they could add to pad out the show.  I don't buy that anything these couples do is genuine.  When the couples bought each other gifts, who did I think made them do it?  Do I really believe that they all just happened to have the same wonderful idea in the same episode and went out to buy each other thoughtful gifts?  Not on your life!  I know producer manipulation when I see it.  Just about the worst I can say about David from what I've seen on this show is that he was very easily manipulated by the producers to do and say whatever they wanted him to.  Other than that it's too hard to say.

I am 100% in agreement with you on this.  These are just bad actors putting on a show for the camera.  Every time the camera "cuts" during a surprise moment you know they either filmed it more than once or there are 3 camera men in their house at all times.  Hard to show in organic moment in either scenario.

 

Also, I don't think everyone thinks David is saint.  Their main gripe with Ashley is that she went on a show to get married and then just didn't really do it.  When a women is at a bar and turns down a guy because she is not interested and she is called a bitch is not the same situation that Ashley is in on this show.  I completely agree it is unfair to women when they are accused of being cold and bitch for not putting up with unwanted advances.  Ashley is not at a bar hanging out and shutting down random guys.  She is on a tv show where the premise is to be married to someone you've never seen.  She put herself in that situation and she is not owning it.

[BunnySlippers]

I actually thought Ashley was considerate & I know I am in a very, very small minority with that opinion. She's quiet & not does not like him--that does not make her a snob or a bitch. I'm so sick of reading this because this is a problem women face in our society - if we do not respond to a man who is "nice" to us, we have the right to be called a bitch. This has happened to me countless times so maybe it offends me more. Its so bad that if I even turn a man down after just meeting him out at a club, it is within his reason & is socially accepted for him to call me profane names as I try to get away from him. Why? I ask fellow posters, why do we put women down because they do not respond to a man's advances??

 

I agree with you about women being harassed and worse if they reject a man's advances (there have been several cases when they were even killed because they had refused to give some man at a bar their phone number), but in my opinion, this case is just not in that same category. David didn't make an advance on Ashley at a bar; she signed up to be married to a stranger and she probably signed a contract to try her best to make the marriage work. And she has done nothing--absolutely nothing--to hold up her end of the bargain. The whole idea behind this "experiment" is to be open to getting to know someone you'd never met before and to give them a chance and see if you'll fall in love and want to stay married. Ashley hasn't done any of that. Even if she didn't like David, she could have been civil and at least pretend that she was willing to give this whole thing a try and to try to get to know him. And this is what most people have a problem with.

 

And if the rumors are true and she signed up for this only to make some money and to make her ex jealous, then that's utterly inexcusable.That does not make her considerate at all.

 

I don't put David on a pedestal at all; I criticized him when he'd snapped at her about the anniversary of his father's death and stormed into the bathroom and when he'd thrown her on the bed, but at least he's been trying.