S05.E08: Serving up Betrayals

[RealReality]

4 minutes ago, Legalbeagle421 said:

I know it's rude for Gizelle to refer to him this way and I know he did a whole Instagram Live with Monique in his feelings about her calling him that but this confessional makes me laugh every single time. She said it at Candiace's party too ("WHEREEEE is Big Boy?" 😂)  I just think "Big Boy" is hilarious and accurate.  But I just can't like Monique and Chris, even though it seems the general audience is Team Monique no matter what actually happened with this fight. 🤷🏾‍♀️ I tend to like the unpopular, so another day in the life for LegalBeagle, I suppose. 😊

I don't think its at all rude to call Chris "big boy," he is like 8 feet tall and was a defensive lineman right?  I don't think you play that position if you're "average sized boy"  He has lost a lot of weight, but he is always going to be a big, teddy bear type.  I actually like that body type so I guess I dont see the offense.  

I hated Candace in her first season, but she has grown on me lately.  I think they are fleshing her out as a character and not so much a one-note person.  In retrospect, I think she took a lot of ribbing and hazing her first season and was able to make peace with everyone.  I don't like all the singing and I think she is very extra, but she was able to put herself into a good position. 

I mean, not only was he able to secure a third season, but she somehow managed to get Bravo to put an ally on the show for her and create a sixth position.  Dr. Wendy is also a bit much, but she seems pretty fierce. 

[Legalbeagle421]

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

I don't think its at all rude to call Chris "big boy," he is like 8 feet tall and was a defensive lineman right?  I don't think you play that position if you're "average sized boy"  He has lost a lot of weight, but he is always going to be a big, teddy bear type.  I actually like that body type so I guess I dont see the offense.  

I guess I say that because he was VERY offended by it. He also said it was demeaning because of the racial implications of Black men being referred to as boy, etc., which I understand. But you're right. He is a "big boy" lol. I'm gonna laugh any time Gizelle says it regardless. 😂

[ErikaAlyson]

To me when Gizelle calls Chris that she is being disrespectful. Especially when she said it in her TH when she mentioned the affair lol. I agree also that Monique is intimidated by Charrisse's role in her social circle.

[drivethroo]

5 hours ago, RealReality said:

1. Who is Gigi, I've seen this person mentioned on Reddit.  Was she a friend Monique met through Charisse, or was this solely Monique's friend?

Gigi is Monique's BFF from back home.  She appeared in several episodes in Season 2.  Apparently Gigi and her husband and Monique and her husband were like relationship accountability partners.  Allegedly (according to Gigi), Gigi, Monique and the trainer went clubbing, Monique & the trainer were acting inappropriately, Gigi told her she was acting inappropriately with the trainer, Monique told her to mind her business, Gigi called her husband to find out what to do and started recording Monique acting inappropriately with the trainer.  Gigi's husband called Chris, Chris called Gigi to find out what was going on.  Monique was upset and cut Gigi off.  Gigi tried to call Monique to make amends but Monique paid her dust.

Then Gigi called Candiace to vent about Monique and Gigi says Candiace told her to just calm down and give Monique space.  That wasn't a good answer for Gigi and several days later she called Candiace and asked for Charrisse's number and Candiace gave it to her.  Then she connected with Charrisse and spilled Monique's tea and then Charrisse ran around Potomac spreading the rumor.

So that's who Gigi is and all of this happened off camera.

[RealReality]

19 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Gigi is Monique's BFF from back home.  She appeared in several episodes in Season 2.  Apparently Gigi and her husband and Monique and her husband were like relationship accountability partners.  Allegedly (according to Gigi), Gigi, Monique and the trainer went clubbing, Monique & the trainer were acting inappropriately, Gigi told her she was acting inappropriately with the trainer, Monique told her to mind her business, Gigi called her husband to find out what to do and started recording Monique acting inappropriately with the trainer.  Gigi's husband called Chris, Chris called Gigi to find out what was going on.  Monique was upset and cut Gigi off.  Gigi tried to call Monique to make amends but Monique paid her dust.

Then Gigi called Candiace to vent about Monique and Gigi says Candiace told her to just calm down and give Monique space.  That wasn't a good answer for Gigi and several days later she called Candiace and asked for Charrisse's number and Candiace gave it to her.  Then she connected with Charrisse and spilled Monique's tea and then Charrisse ran around Potomac spreading the rumor.

So that's who Gigi is and all of this happened off camera.

Wow, thanks for the rundown.  With friends like that, who needs enemies!  I can't imagine going to the club with my trainer!

[LaurelleJ]

Why does everyone want to assume the rumor is true? This is what I mean about the power of suggestion. People could seem just fine and when someone plants a seed, the plant grows quickly. Maybe Monique could see that this was just a way they thought to get Charisse back on the show, at her expense, using her ex best friend. That would piss me off. And my supposed friend Candiace knew and didn't tell me, and gave Charisse's number to Gigi???

Since we are throwing out theories, new theory here. In the beginning of the season it was clear that Gizelle and Candiace were on the outs. Gizelle didn't care for Candiace or Monique. There was talk of icing out Candiace. Gizelle says to Charisse, hey, if you bring up these rumors about Monique, it will give a reason for you to be on the show, and if Candiace is iced out because no one is talking about her, and Monique is humiliated, two birds with one stone, and you can come back. Cut to Monique and Candiace having problems, now Monique has fought and she can be iced out, and Charisse can also come back. Who knows how badly Gizelle's comments about Charisse affected her life/divorce. Could that have been a way for them to mend fences?

[RealReality]

12 minutes ago, LaurelleJ said:

Why does everyone want to assume the rumor is true? This is what I mean about the power of suggestion. People could seem just fine and when someone plants a seed, the plant grows quickly. Maybe Monique could see that this was just a way they thought to get Charisse back on the show, at her expense, using her ex best friend. That would piss me off. And my supposed friend Candiace knew and didn't tell me, and gave Charisse's number to Gigi???

Since we are throwing out theories, new theory here. In the beginning of the season it was clear that Gizelle and Candiace were on the outs. Gizelle didn't care for Candiace or Monique. There was talk of icing out Candiace. Gizelle says to Charisse, hey, if you bring up these rumors about Monique, it will give a reason for you to be on the show, and if Candiace is iced out because no one is talking about her, and Monique is humiliated, two birds with one stone, and you can come back. Cut to Monique and Candiace having problems, now Monique has fought and she can be iced out, and Charisse can also come back. Who knows how badly Gizelle's comments about Charisse affected her life/divorce. Could that have been a way for them to mend fences?

Monique would have to be absolutely delusional to think that Bravo wouldn't see a juicy social media rumor circulating and not use it on the show.  

She could have cut all of this off at the knees by confronting Charisse at Candace's party.  

I don't, for a nanosecond, believe that Monique cheated with her trainer.  But, if she is worried about the rumors being "out there" why not use this HUGE platform to squash the rumors?  Hell, she has a podcast that no one is interested in being on....why not use that platform to address the rumors?  Instead she ridiculously thought that she could control Bravo?

By having it mentioned on the show by Gizelle and never addressing it outright with Charisse she ends up looking like she might have done something that he didn't do.  

And frankly, Monique should be thanking Bravo, because I know that they could have edited her footage to make her look like a flirt and a floozy.  But, the Bravo editing, even this season has never supported the story that Monique is cheating.  

So now Candace isn't allowed to share phone numbers between two people who want to talk?  Particularly in 2020 when they would have found each other on social media anyways?  

IMO, Monique has played herself.  There were 50 million ways to handle it rather than trying to keep it off of a reality show with millions of viewers.  

[luckyroll3]

6 hours ago, drivethroo said:

Gigi is Monique's BFF from back home.  She appeared in several episodes in Season 2.  Apparently Gigi and her husband and Monique and her husband were like relationship accountability partners.  Allegedly (according to Gigi), Gigi, Monique and the trainer went clubbing, Monique & the trainer were acting inappropriately, Gigi told her she was acting inappropriately with the trainer, Monique told her to mind her business, Gigi called her husband to find out what to do and started recording Monique acting inappropriately with the trainer.  Gigi's husband called Chris, Chris called Gigi to find out what was going on.  Monique was upset and cut Gigi off.  Gigi tried to call Monique to make amends but Monique paid her dust.

Then Gigi called Candiace to vent about Monique and Gigi says Candiace told her to just calm down and give Monique space.  That wasn't a good answer for Gigi and several days later she called Candiace and asked for Charrisse's number and Candiace gave it to her.  Then she connected with Charrisse and spilled Monique's tea and then Charrisse ran around Potomac spreading the rumor.

So that's who Gigi is and all of this happened off camera.

Where'd all this tea come from? I, too, was wondering who the hell Gigi was, so I'm glad someone asked. But what kind of best friend films you when you're doing something inappropriate?!?!  And then calls people she knows you're not really that cool with to talk about it?!?!

[LaurelleJ]

8 hours ago, RealReality said:

Monique would have to be absolutely delusional to think that Bravo wouldn't see a juicy social media rumor circulating and not use it on the show.  

She could have cut all of this off at the knees by confronting Charisse at Candace's party.  

I don't, for a nanosecond, believe that Monique cheated with her trainer.  But, if she is worried about the rumors being "out there" why not use this HUGE platform to squash the rumors?  Hell, she has a podcast that no one is interested in being on....why not use that platform to address the rumors?  Instead she ridiculously thought that she could control Bravo?

By having it mentioned on the show by Gizelle and never addressing it outright with Charisse she ends up looking like she might have done something that he didn't do.  

And frankly, Monique should be thanking Bravo, because I know that they could have edited her footage to make her look like a flirt and a floozy.  But, the Bravo editing, even this season has never supported the story that Monique is cheating.  

So now Candace isn't allowed to share phone numbers between two people who want to talk?  Particularly in 2020 when they would have found each other on social media anyways?  

IMO, Monique has played herself.  There were 50 million ways to handle it rather than trying to keep it off of a reality show with millions of viewers.  

I get what you are saying. IMO, Monique confronting Charisse and giving the story legs would have sent people in the opposite direction, saying why is she defending herself so hard. It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations, hence the rumors being a problem in the first place. She has said that she is thankful to bravo for not running with stories that are obviously not true. 

I think the problem with Candiace giving Gigi Charisse's phone number is that Candiace knew that Monique and Gigi had fallen out, and Monique and Charisse had fallen out. She knew what she was trying to do when she provided the phone number, and if we are supposed to be friends, that's a no no. Charisse also had. a public IG, so if Gigi really wanted to contact her, it would have been easy. Who is to say that she didn't already do that, with no success.

Edited September 24, 2020 by LaurelleJ

[Mr. Miner]

15 hours ago, RealReality said:

I don't think its at all rude to call Chris "big boy," he is like 8 feet tall and was a defensive lineman right?

Offensive lineman, 6'5",  played in 6 Pro Bowls.

[Vanderboom]

18 hours ago, qtpye said:

I wanna say that when Ashley came into the winery with her bullshit excuse for Michael cheating and "Oooh, I might be pregnant" ( I know she is in real life) that the ladies respected her and her marriage in way that she has never respected anyone else or their relationship on the show.

Of course, she was right back at it when she asked if Candiass and Monique were good.

I know, right?! I get that no one wants to bully a first-time mom (except Dr. Wendy, possibly), but I'm not feeling this Our Sainted Lady of Motherhood attitude toward Ashley this season. I thought Candiace handled the Michael intel with class, but let's not forget the pile on of a few weeks ago when everyone was trying to force Candiace to apologize to Ashley for the previous season. Ashley is incredibly messy, and deserves to be called out on it.

 

3 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

Where'd all this tea come from? I, too, was wondering who the hell Gigi was, so I'm glad someone asked. But what kind of best friend films you when you're doing something inappropriate?!?!  And then calls people she knows you're not really that cool with to talk about.

Until the last few posts, I thought Gigi was a nickname for Gizelle. I feel . . . not smart about that.  Now I have to go reread!

[SailorGirl]

On 9/22/2020 at 2:02 PM, Kerrey92 said:

Was Ashley implying that they have an open relationship so what happened in the hotel was not surprising so the ladies (and America) can take a seat?  But was it that the open relationship only applies when it’s the two of them?   So she was unhappy because he went solo with someone?  Because I had no idea what they were getting at that dinner. 

 

My takeaway is that they had an open relationship prior to the baby and engaged in threesomes. The impression they both gave at the dinner, and that Ashley as much as told the other women, is that they both knew when the other stepped out and it was discussed. It seems Michael's step-out while Ashley was at the Lake House was NOT discussed prior, and she found out about it second-hand instead of directly from him, which was an insult to her and their parameters for the step-outs. She was rightfully mad about both of those things.

She made it clear at the dinner that she doesn't want to have an open relationship anymore -- not surprising -- I know couples who were pretty open with their marriages and then a kid came along and they switched to a traditional, monogamous marriage.

I think Michael started the timer on the end of the marriage when he said "So, no more fun?" after Ashley told him she didn't want an open marriage any more. Fuck you, dude, sorry being monogamous isn't enough "fun" for you.

Edited September 24, 2020 by SailorGirl
grammar matters

[drivethroo]

12 hours ago, LaurelleJ said:

Why does everyone want to assume the rumor is true?

Because Monique is behaving as if it was true.  I also tend to think it's true because Chris has been acting assy to her in a way he didn't do before.  I don't believe for one minute she slept with the trainer but I do believe she was inappropriate with the trainer.

6 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

Where'd all this tea come from? I, too, was wondering who the hell Gigi was, so I'm glad someone asked.

Monique has been on a social media campaign for the past year, ever since this fight broke out.  She's been running to bloggers and gossip sites to paint Candiace out to be the bad guy and attacker.  Apparently some of Monique's social media team started talking about Gigi and to defend herself Gigi went the bloggers a few weeks ago to share her side of the story.

3 hours ago, LaurelleJ said:

I get what you are saying. IMO, Monique confronting Charisse and giving the story legs would have sent people in the opposite direction, saying why is she defending herself so hard. It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations, hence the rumors being a problem in the first place. She has said that she is thankful to bravo for not running with stories that are obviously not true. 

What gave the story legs was Monique coming for Candiace harder than she came for Gigi who started the rumor or Charrisse who spread it.  If she had just ignored/avoided Candiace like she ignored/avoided Charrisse, we wouldn't be discussing any of this.  But because Monique wanted to put her hands on Candiace, people now want to know what's going on and why.

3 hours ago, LaurelleJ said:

I think the problem with Candiace giving Gigi Charisse's phone number is that Candiace knew that Monique and Gigi had fallen out, and Monique and Charisse had fallen out. She knew what she was trying to do when she provided the phone number, and if we are supposed to be friends, that's a no no. Charisse also had. a public IG, so if Gigi really wanted to contact her, it would have been easy. Who is to say that she didn't already do that, with no success.

Candiace may be 100% at fault but don't try to fistfight Candiace (who made the connections) but not want to fistfight the people (Gigi & Charrisse) who started and spread the rumors in the first place. Gigi actually said more salacious stuff about Monique than just the trainer rumors but we don't see Monique trying to fist fight her or coming for her like she is coming for Candiace.  Candiace and Monique have known each other for a couple of years, this Gigi woman was supposedly Monique's BFF from back in HS/NJ so it would seem like Monique would be wanting to fist fight Gigi before anyone else. Unless she knows Gigi has the receipts on her.

3 hours ago, Vanderboom said:

Ashley is incredibly messy, and deserves to be called out on it.

 

Ashley has been given the grace she never ever gave to Robyn.

 

1 hour ago, SailorGirl said:

I think Michael started the timer on the end of the marriage when he said "So, no more fun?" after Ashley told him she didn't want an open marriage any more. 

 

The timer on the end of the marriage started with the conception of Dean.  The marriage was open but Ashley closed her doors when she got pregnant. I wouldn't think too many pregnant women are trying to swing, engage in 3somes or step out on their partner.  I think Ashley assumed when she got pregnant and closed her open doors Michael would do the same and he did not and whats more didn't even bother to tell her when he was stepping out.  That's why she was getting her Sherlock Holmes on and sniffing underwear.

I also think Ashley drove up and down the Arlington streets realizing Michael will never change, he manipulated Ashley into taking Dean with her so he could cheat in peace and in order to keep getting what she wants financially, she will have to look the other way on Michael. Even if she wants to keeps swinging & having 3somes, she can't because she's tired from taking care of a little one.

That's why she exposed their arrangement on camera.  Michael wasn't angry at that, he was angry because she announced her swinging doors were closed.  That's why he said "so, no more fun?"

Ashley may want all of her children to have the same father (she and her siblings all have different fathers) and that's why she decided to have another child with Michael.  She also may have to stay with Michael to make sure she has enough money to support her mom & little sister* until the girl turns 18 (or until the girl graduates from college).

I want Ashley to get some money of her own other than her BRAVO paycheck so she has choices in the future.  Do not count on child support ...Michael seems like the type to sue for full custody (even though he don't want them kids) so he won't have to pay child support and cite Ashley's dysfunctional background and swinging ways to justify it.

Michael will end the marriage when he decides he needs a swinging partner and Ashley refuses to resume that lifestyle.

Ashley will pull the plug after she's done having kids and her family has been taken care of.

*Ashley's sister is cute as a button.

Edited September 24, 2020 by drivethroo

[luckyroll3]

25 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

The timer on the end of the marriage started with the conception of Dean.  The marriage was open but Ashley closed her doors when she got pregnant. I wouldn't think too many pregnant women are trying to swing, engage in 3somes or step out on their partner.  I think Ashley assumed when she got pregnant and closed her open doors Michael would do the same and he did not and whats more didn't even bother to tell her when he was stepping out.  That's why she was getting her Sherlock Holmes on and sniffing underwear.

I also think Ashley drove up and down the Arlington streets realizing Michael will never change, he manipulated Ashley into taking Dean with her so he could cheat in peace and in order to keep getting what she wants financially, she will have to look the other way on Michael. Even if she wants to keeps swinging & having 3somes, she can't because she's tired from taking care of a little one.

That's why she exposed their arrangement on camera.  Michael wasn't angry at that, he was angry because she announced her swinging doors were closed.  That's why he said "so, no more fun?"

(Sorry, I could't help myself! :-D)

[Baltimore Betty]

I am thinking about Ashley and Michael's marriage and I cannot help thinking that Ashley had played with Michael and his first wife, first wife realizes that Michael is stepping out with Ashley a bit too on his own too much and tells him that there will be no more swinging so Michael leaves...Michael and Ashley get together and continue to swing and she knows that Michael likes men in the mix and is okay with it...now she has a child and wants to stop but Michael does not stop, in fact he keeps going and hides it from her.  That is where the problem lies.

Swinging is a tricky thing, it can very much be a couples thing, sharing experiences together but the minute you step out alone and have to hide it, it changes things.  Rules must be put in place and adhered to otherwise...well we have seen what happens.  

Just my two cents.

 

[biakbiak]

28 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

and I cannot help thinking that Ashley had played with Michael and his first wife, first wife realizes that Michael is stepping out with Ashley a bit too on his own too much and tells him that there will be no more swinging so Michael leaves...Michael and Ashley get together and continue to swing and she knows that Michael likes men in the mix and is okay with it...now she has a child and wants to stop but Michael does not stop, in fact he keeps going and hides it from her.  That is where the problem lies.

Michael and his first wife divorced several years before he met Ashley.

[Baltimore Betty]

3 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Michael and his first wife divorced several years before he met Ashley.

Well, it was just a theory.

[SailorGirl]

4 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Well, it was just a theory.

sounded like a good one to me! 

[qtpye]

12 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

Where'd all this tea come from? I, too, was wondering who the hell Gigi was, so I'm glad someone asked. But what kind of best friend films you when you're doing something inappropriate?!?!  And then calls people she knows you're not really that cool with to talk about it?!?!

A best friend who is jealous as fuck of your good fortune. However, Monique should not have given her the ammunition in the first place by clubbing and flirting with the trainer. I know my husband would not tolerate me going "clubbing" with another man and I sure as hell would not tolerate him clubbing with other women.

It is great when you have authentic friends. However, it is always kind of shocking when you start doing well for yourself how many of your supposed "Ride or Die" crew can turn on you.

Gigi was stupid. She could have easily been the Gail to Monique's Oprah. I bet you Monique would probably hire her as her 'assistant and probably put her on the payroll  (this seems to happen a lot to women whose best friends "marry money").

I am sick of Bravo dragging out this stupid fight that happened a year ago for almost 1,000 episodes. They are banking too much on this now that the plotline of "Ashley's husband will literally sleep with anything that moves...better yet if it has a dick" storyline has gotten stale.

Edited September 24, 2020 by qtpye

[Sheenieb]

50 minutes ago, qtpye said:

A best friend who is jealous as fuck of your good fortune. However, Monique should not have given her the ammunition in the first place by clubbing and flirting with the trainer. I know my husband would not tolerate me going "clubbing" with another man and I sure as hell would not tolerate him clubbing with other women.

It is great when you have authentic friends. However, it is always kind of shocking when you start doing well for yourself how many of your supposed "Ride or Die" crew can turn on you.

Yeah, this Gigi person sounds like trash. She did Monique a favor by showing Mo her true colors. Who records their friend? Trash people, that's who! 

Agreed that Monique shouldn't have been out with her trainer, but she clearly thought she was amongst friends. Joke's on her.

Ride or Die friends becoming shitty reminds me of what happened with Eva's bridesmaid after her wedding on RHOA. I don't remember exactly what happened that led to their falling out, but the bridesmaid went spilling tea about Eva being broke.

8 hours ago, LaurelleJ said:

I think the problem with Candiace giving Gigi Charisse's phone number is that Candiace knew that Monique and Gigi had fallen out, and Monique and Charisse had fallen out. She knew what she was trying to do when she provided the phone number, and if we are supposed to be friends, that's a no no. Charisse also had. a public IG, so if Gigi really wanted to contact her, it would have been easy. Who is to say that she didn't already do that, with no success.

While Gigi should definitely have the brunt of the blame, and Charisse is trash for minding Monique's business, if this is how it went down, then Candiace can't play innocent with why Monique is mad at her. However, Mo is being passive aggressive AF and she should just come out and say what the deal is. Right now, Monique is caught up in the Streisand Effect. 

[RealReality]

8 hours ago, LaurelleJ said:

I get what you are saying. IMO, Monique confronting Charisse and giving the story legs would have sent people in the opposite direction, saying why is she defending herself so hard. It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations, hence the rumors being a problem in the first place. She has said that she is thankful to bravo for not running with stories that are obviously not true. 

I think the problem with Candiace giving Gigi Charisse's phone number is that Candiace knew that Monique and Gigi had fallen out, and Monique and Charisse had fallen out. She knew what she was trying to do when she provided the phone number, and if we are supposed to be friends, that's a no no. Charisse also had. a public IG, so if Gigi really wanted to contact her, it would have been easy. Who is to say that she didn't already do that, with no success.

I don't think Monique confronting Charisse would have resulted in people assuming that she was cheating.  Given what they have shown of the Samuels marriage, I think the rumor is ridiculous on its face.  But she could have forced Charisse to admit that she really doesn't know much of anything other than rumors from Monique's ex-best friend and I believe that that would have further put a nail in the coffin to the rumors.  

If she didn't want to confront Charisse, for whatever reason, she could have addressed the rumors on the show....with her pastor and his wife.  That would have given Monique an opportunity to get her side of the story out without interruption.  This would have worked especially well if Gigi has some tape or video of Monique being inappropriate with the trainer, but not actually cheating or admitting to cheating.  That way Monique could get out in front of it and control the narrative.  She and her pastor could discuss how easy it is to get tempted and how you have to exercise self control to keep from crossing a line.  Do you discuss any of this with a spouse, like Karen and Ray do with "eye candy" or do you just get rid of anyone you might be physically attracted to, etc, etc.  Monique could have sought guidance on where the "line" is from her pastor.  They would have been thrilled to give their guidance on television.  

So, Gigi and Charisse spoke and Charisse spread some gossip.  Now lets say Candace didn't give her the number....now Gigi goes directly to a blog site and spills the tea.  How much worse is that for Monique?  Now you don't even have the source of the information to judge as reliable.  To date, it sounds like Gigi has receipts in the form of recordings and she has not yet shared them.  Perhaps Charisse talked her out of sharing those, which would have been 100x worse for Monique's image.  It sounds like Monique blew Gigi off when she said she should get rid of the trainer and so perhaps just having the rumor out there made Monique get rid of the trainer or made Chris more vigilant, which is what it sounds like her friend kinda wanted her to do in the first place.  

Had Gigi and Charisse gotten together through social media or had Gigi gone to a blog site (and some of them are not very strict about proof or evidence) I think that would have been worse for Monique.   

[RealReality]

8 hours ago, Mr. Miner said:

Offensive lineman, 6'5",  played in 6 Pro Bowls.

Thank you for assuming that I know what those words mean.  LOL

But, to me, 6'5 is big, its quite literally over a foot taller than me.  

[RealReality]

8 hours ago, Vanderboom said:

I know, right?! I get that no one wants to bully a first-time mom (except Dr. Wendy, possibly), but I'm not feeling this Our Sainted Lady of Motherhood attitude toward Ashley this season. I thought Candiace handled the Michael intel with class, but let's not forget the pile on of a few weeks ago when everyone was trying to force Candiace to apologize to Ashley for the previous season. Ashley is incredibly messy, and deserves to be called out on it.d

I totally agree.  And in spite of admitting that everyone is being nicer to her than she deserves she turns right around and starts some mess and drama.  

I don't get the Ashley love at all  -- she is the ultimate example of someone who is gleefully happy to dish it out, but can't take it.  

6 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

I think Michael started the timer on the end of the marriage when he said "So, no more fun?" after Ashley told him she didn't want an open marriage any more. Fuck you, dude, sorry being monogamous isn't enough "fun" for you.

I think its strategically brilliant to get Michael to end the marriage.  Ashley doesn't end up looking like a golddigger, but a much wronged wife.  

5 hours ago, drivethroo said:

 

Ashley has been given the grace she never ever gave to Robyn.

 

This x1000 

She never, ever stayed out of Robyn's business after being begged and yelled at not to, but now everyone is supposed to treat her marriage like some sacred topic?

I wish someone would get in Ashleys face and tell her that her relationship with Michael "IS NOT CONDUCIVE TO A HAPPY LIFE!"

28 minutes ago, Sheenieb said:

Yeah, this Gigi person sounds like trash. She did Monique a favor by showing Mo her true colors. Who records their friend? Trash people, that's who! 

Agreed that Monique shouldn't have been out with her trainer, but she clearly thought she was amongst friends. Joke's on her.

While Gigi should definitely have the brunt of the blame, and Charisse is trash for minding Monique's business, if this is how it went down, then Candiace can't play innocent with why Monique is mad at her. However, Mo is being passive aggressive AF and she should just come out and say what the deal is. Right now, Monique is caught up in the Streisand Effect. 

Devil's avocado (TM: 30 Rock) but IIRC, Gigi had first approached Monique and tried to get her to stop the behavior and Monique blew her off.  I'll re-review @drivethroo excellent summary, but I got the impression that Gigi was a devout Christian and didn't think that Monique's behavior was in step with those for a married Christian woman.  

If this is the case, she MAY have filmed Monique at the club, so she could SHOW her objectively, that she was acting inappropriately with the trainer.  It sounds like she got angry and petty once Monique cut her off.  I say that, because I think if she, at that point, was truly just trying to save the Samuel's marriage she could have reached out to Chris.  I don't know if she did.   And its also possible that control freak Monique, trying to keep everything under wraps, told Chris not to talk to Gigi because she was crazy and jealous and so Chris, trusting his wife, didn't talk to Gigi.

And if Monique cut Gigi off, simply for saying that she was acting inappropriately and Gigi didn't have a way to get a hold of Chris its possible.....POSSIBLE.....not probable that Gigi felt that she had to go for the nuclear option to stop Monique's "dangerous" behavior by going to someone like Charisse, who would start a rumor.  It would suck, but it would mean that Monique would definitely get rid of the trainer and stop being so close to him because Monique is very concerned about her public image.

This is obviously the KINDEST interpretation of Gigi's behavior and I think the truth could be in the middle.  Gigi saw something going on with the trainer that could easily turn bad.

Monique and the trainer were hanging out off the clock and she was clubbing with him and being flirty with him AND he has a history of sleeping with clients.  And, at least where I lived, a lot of trainers have aspirations of fame, training is just something they are doing t pay the bills.   The trainer could have just as easily gone to the blogs and painted a picture of infidelity just to get on the show.  

But Gigi goes to Monique, shows her video of how poorly she is behaving and how it could be interpreted....Monique goes cold and cuts her off and Gigi gets petty and mean and takes the information to Charisse because she is mad.  What started out as good intentions just morphed into something ugly.  

 

[goofygirl]

I'm 5'1" and weigh 90 pounds.  I have a cousin 6'6" and weighs 300 pounds.  I call him "SHORTY".

[FozzyBear]

Wendy’s “Pick me! Pick me!” was the most I have liked her so far. 😂😂

Edited September 29, 2020 by FozzyBear

[Neurochick]

16 hours ago, RealReality said:

If this is the case, she MAY have filmed Monique at the club, so she could SHOW her objectively, that she was acting inappropriately with the trainer.  It sounds like she got angry and petty once Monique cut her off.  I say that, because I think if she, at that point, was truly just trying to save the Samuel's marriage she could have reached out to Chris.  I don't know if she did.   And its also possible that control freak Monique, trying to keep everything under wraps, told Chris not to talk to Gigi because she was crazy and jealous and so Chris, trusting his wife, didn't talk to Gigi.

And if Monique cut Gigi off, simply for saying that she was acting inappropriately and Gigi didn't have a way to get a hold of Chris its possible.....POSSIBLE.....not probable that Gigi felt that she had to go for the nuclear option to stop Monique's "dangerous" behavior by going to someone like Charisse, who would start a rumor.  It would suck, but it would mean that Monique would definitely get rid of the trainer and stop being so close to him because Monique is very concerned about her public image.

I think Gigi filmed Monique to have some proof of what she'd seen.  If she just told someone, they'd accuse her to being a liar.  

People today are like, "if it's not on video (or phone) it didn't happen."

[FozzyBear]

On 9/23/2020 at 7:32 PM, drivethroo said:

Gigi is Monique's BFF from back home.  She appeared in several episodes in Season 2.  Apparently Gigi and her husband and Monique and her husband were like relationship accountability partners.  Allegedly (according to Gigi), Gigi, Monique and the trainer went clubbing, Monique & the trainer were acting inappropriately, Gigi told her she was acting inappropriately with the trainer, Monique told her to mind her business, Gigi called her husband to find out what to do and started recording Monique acting inappropriately with the trainer.  Gigi's husband called Chris, Chris called Gigi to find out what was going on.  Monique was upset and cut Gigi off.  Gigi tried to call Monique to make amends but Monique paid her dust.

Then Gigi called Candiace to vent about Monique and Gigi says Candiace told her to just calm down and give Monique space.  That wasn't a good answer for Gigi and several days later she called Candiace and asked for Charrisse's number and Candiace gave it to her.  Then she connected with Charrisse and spilled Monique's tea and then Charrisse ran around Potomac spreading the rumor.

So that's who Gigi is and all of this happened off camera.

What. The. Actual. Fuck.  Like what the fuck? Who has friendships like that? If all of that is true than Monique should be mad at Gigi. The only thing that Candace did wrong was give Gigi the phone number but that is assuming that Candace was aware of why Gigi wanted to talk to Charisse. If Candace did know that she should apologize for that. It’s very passive aggressive villainy though that strikes me as more Giselle or Ashley style. Candace like to be the center of attention when she’s plotting. She likes to buy a new outfit and get her hair done and maybe plan a musical performance to give her villainy some sparkle! She’s like a little Karen in that way. 

[drivethroo]

17 hours ago, RealReality said:

I say that, because I think if she, at that point, was truly just trying to save the Samuel's marriage she could have reached out to Chris.  I don't know if she did.   And its also possible that control freak Monique, trying to keep everything under wraps, told Chris not to talk to Gigi because she was crazy and jealous and so Chris, trusting his wife, didn't talk to Gigi.

From what has been said on various blogs, Gigi allegedly told Monique she was acting inappropriately with the trainer at the club. Apparently the trainer either told Gigi or told Monique that Gigi was being the "p*ssy police."  Gigi claims she called her (Gigi) husband to find out what to do.  Her (Gigi) husband called Chris and told him what was going on.  I'm not sure if Chris contacted Gigi, but after all of this went down Monique cut Gigi off. Gigi allegedly texted/called Monique for a month, then Monique texted her with a "may you have a nice life" type of text.  Gigi got angry and then went to Monique's cast members.

Gigi also told how Monique allegedly got with Chris in the first place, which is not flattering to Monique.

For me, Monique going hard after Candiacetells me there is probably some truth as to what Gigi is saying. Why would you decide to not engage with Gigi and Charrisse who started and spread the rumors but you want to lay hands on Candiace, who passed along a phone number? And then embark on a year long social media campaign against Candiace? Why would you go hard on Candiace for "destroying people's marriages" but you avoid & disengage with Gigi and Charrisse who actually did try to destroy your marriage?

I think Monique wanted Candiace iced out of the group (and thus off the show), but is frustrated because not only was Candiace not iced out of the group, but everyone is taking Candiace's side instead of hers.  So she let her emotions get the best of her & seemingly provoked the fight & went on the year long social media campaign to convince viewers that Candiace was at fault (and thus has to go).

Like I said before, the grave you dig for others is the grave you dig for yourself.  IMO Monique crying next week "Then maybe I don't need to be a part of this" is because those women still don't see it for her and are still taking Candiace's side.

Candiace isn't Monique's issue.  CHRIS is Monique's issue and until she works through that, she's going to continue having problems with other women (on and off the show).

[FozzyBear]

4 hours ago, drivethroo said:

From what has been said on various blogs, Gigi allegedly told Monique she was acting inappropriately with the trainer at the club. Apparently the trainer either told Gigi or told Monique that Gigi was being the "p*ssy police."  Gigi claims she called her (Gigi) husband to find out what to do.  Her (Gigi) husband called Chris and told him what was going on.  I'm not sure if Chris contacted Gigi, but after all of this went down Monique cut Gigi off. Gigi allegedly texted/called Monique for a month, then Monique texted her with a "may you have a nice life" type of text.  Gigi got angry and then went to Monique's cast members.

Gigi also told how Monique allegedly got with Chris in the first place, which is not flattering to Monique.

For me, Monique going hard after Candiacetells me there is probably some truth as to what Gigi is saying. Why would you decide to not engage with Gigi and Charrisse who started and spread the rumors but you want to lay hands on Candiace, who passed along a phone number? And then embark on a year long social media campaign against Candiace? Why would you go hard on Candiace for "destroying people's marriages" but you avoid & disengage with Gigi and Charrisse who actually did try to destroy your marriage?

I think Monique wanted Candiace iced out of the group (and thus off the show), but is frustrated because not only was Candiace not iced out of the group, but everyone is taking Candiace's side instead of hers.  So she let her emotions get the best of her & seemingly provoked the fight & went on the year long social media campaign to convince viewers that Candiace was at fault (and thus has to go).

Like I said before, the grave you dig for others is the grave you dig for yourself.  IMO Monique crying next week "Then maybe I don't need to be a part of this" is because those women still don't see it for her and are still taking Candiace's side.

Candiace isn't Monique's issue.  CHRIS is Monique's issue and until she works through that, she's going to continue having problems with other women (on and off the show).

I think the tipping point for the other ladies was the lake house trip. Nobody seemed to be having fun and Monique just flat out lost her shit instead of paying attention to the very good Ashley gossip. Now I do not blame Monique for everyone’s stank attitude about having to go 48 hours without high speed internet and constant stimulus (good lord I could not travel with any Housewife group. They are so high maintenance and incapable of making their own fun. I have no patience for adults like that.). I do however blame her for her hissy fit over the campfire when everyone had important Housewife pearl clutching to do over Michael. She just would not let the fucking campfire go. By the time they left it felt like everyone was exhausted by hearing about how Candace showed poor campfire etiquette and should be very ashamed. No one cared! They all wanted to talk about Michael and the hookers and Monique was ruining it! Imagine having that hot piece of gossip and your hostess won’t even let you properly spend the entire day talking about how you’re not going to talk about it.  Poor form, Monique. Poor form.

Edited September 25, 2020 by FozzyBear

[RealReality]

3 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

I think the tipping point for the other ladies was the lake house trip. Nobody seemed to be having fun and Monique just flat out lost her shit instead of paying attention to the very good Ashley gossip. Now I do not blame Monique for everyone’s stank attitude about having to go 48 hours without high speed internet and constant stimulus (good lord I could not travel with any Housewife group. They are so high maintenance and incapable of making their own fun. I have no patience for adults like that.). I do however blame her for her hissy fit over the campfire when everyone had important Housewife pearl clutching to do over Michael. She just would not let the fucking campfire go. By the time they left it felt like everyone was exhausted by hearing about how Candace showed poor campfire etiquette and should be very ashamed. No one cared! They all wanted to talk about Michael and the hookers and Monique was ruining it! Imagine having that hot piece of gossip and you’re hostess won’t even let you properly spend the entire day talking about how you’re not going to talk about it.  Poor form, Monique. Poor form.

LOL you're right, these housewives wanted activities.  And not of the s'mores variety.  

I'm not even sure what Monique's end game was, like was everyone supposed to yell at Candace for missing s'mores?  There was less drama when Gizelle and Robyn missed a planned event in a completely different country.  NOTABLY, this was ALSO on a Monique planned trip, so I'm not sure why she wasn't outright harassing Gizelle and Robyn the way she was Candace.  

ETA: the rest of the housewives probably beat feet out of there and met up at a coffee shop to discuss the hot gossip without Ashley or Debbie Downer Monique around

Edited September 25, 2020 by RealReality

[Axie]

10 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

I think the tipping point for the other ladies was the lake house trip. Nobody seemed to be having fun and Monique just flat out lost her shit instead of paying attention to the very good Ashley gossip. Now I do not blame Monique for everyone’s stank attitude about having to go 48 hours without high speed internet and constant stimulus (good lord I could not travel with any Housewife group. They are so high maintenance and incapable of making their own fun. I have no patience for adults like that.). I do however blame her for her hissy fit over the campfire when everyone had important Housewife pearl clutching to do over Michael. She just would not let the fucking campfire go. By the time they left it felt like everyone was exhausted by hearing about how Candace showed poor campfire etiquette and should be very ashamed. No one cared! They all wanted to talk about Michael and the hookers and Monique was ruining it! Imagine having that hot piece of gossip and your hostess won’t even let you properly spend the entire day talking about how you’re not going to talk about it.  Poor form, Monique. Poor form.

There is absolutely nothing worse than someone with poor campfire etiquette.  Nothing!

[Legalbeagle421]

I was too busy looking at Eddie last week to pay attention to his and Wendy's actual conversation. Upon rewatch, I am not looking forward to Wendy's inevitable on-camera conversation with her mom about changing career paths. Wendy is like 36/37 years old with a whole family. Who cares what your mom says? Also, we have enough mother/daughter drama on this show. Thank goodness Robyn and Gizelle have normal relationships with their mothers, but we don't see them nearly enough. Just crazy Dorothy and handouts Sheila (Is that Ashley's mom's name?). 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Legalbeagle421

[ladle]

God, I just hate Michael so much. Flames, on the sides of my face. FLAMES. 
 

Eddie looks like he could be Kanye West’s brother. 
 

[ladle]

I liked Ashley’s little cloak and her whole look at the wine tasting. 

[ladle]

On 9/23/2020 at 2:56 AM, RealReality said:

I think Dr. Wendy is tired of being an associate professor.  Every professor I know wants to get tenured because I think being an associate professor may not have as many....advantages.    

Typically, being an associate *does* mean you have tenure. You come in as an “assistant professor” and get promoted to “associate professor” when you’re tenured. (And yes, the nomenclature is super weird.)

[nb360]

According to this, Wendy is an assistant professor, which means she is untenured: https://education.jhu.edu/directory/wendy-osefo-phd/

Depending upon when she was hired, she will be coming up for tenure in the next few years. I wonder how being on this show will affect her tenure decision. (Some assistant professors have been denied tenure just based on their Twitter feed.)

[RealReality]

39 minutes ago, ladle said:

Typically, being an associate *does* mean you have tenure. You come in as an “assistant professor” and get promoted to “associate professor” when you’re tenured. (And yes, the nomenclature is super weird.)

Thanks for the clarification.  I'm not at all familiar with the world of academia!

13 minutes ago, nb360 said:

According to this, Wendy is an assistant professor, which means she is untenured: https://education.jhu.edu/directory/wendy-osefo-phd/

Depending upon when she was hired, she will be coming up for tenure in the next few years. I wonder how being on this show will affect her tenure decision. (Some assistant professors have been denied tenure just based on their Twitter feed.)

Thats kinda what I'm thinking. 

I remember watching a PBS documentary a while back about higher education and basically they said that more and more, colleges are looking to hire part time professors in an effort to save money.  I'm not sure if that desire to save money extends to trying to make it harder for professors to attain (achieve) tenure?

If thats the case, Wendy may have been strategic.  A stable career as a tenured professor may be worth turning down a chance to be on a Real Housewives franchise.  BUT if she is thinking that the university would deny her tenure or make it her for her to get tenured than it might make sense just to quit and pursue these other avenues while she can.  

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, ladle said:

Typically, being an associate *does* mean you have tenure. You come in as an “assistant professor” and get promoted to “associate professor” when you’re tenured. (And yes, the nomenclature is super weird.)

 

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

Thanks for the clarification.  I'm not at all familiar with the world of academia!

Thats kinda what I'm thinking. 

I remember watching a PBS documentary a while back about higher education and basically they said that more and more, colleges are looking to hire part time professors in an effort to save money.  I'm not sure if that desire to save money extends to trying to make it harder for professors to attain (achieve) tenure?

If thats the case, Wendy may have been strategic.  A stable career as a tenured professor may be worth turning down a chance to be on a Real Housewives franchise.  BUT if she is thinking that the university would deny her tenure or make it her for her to get tenured than it might make sense just to quit and pursue these other avenues while she can.  

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/04/bad-job-market-phds/479205/

The academic job market has been a nightmare. It used to be tenured professors had to retire at 65 but that became illegal in the United States.

Sadly, she might have a more stable job and make more money in reality tv.

Edited September 28, 2020 by qtpye

[nb360]

52 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I remember watching a PBS documentary a while back about higher education and basically they said that more and more, colleges are looking to hire part time professors in an effort to save money.  I'm not sure if that desire to save money extends to trying to make it harder for professors to attain (achieve) tenure?

Yes. Basically, colleges and universities hire recent Ph.Ds as "adjuncts" or visiting assistant profs., pay them about $20-50,000, and minimal benefits. The gold standard for a newly minted Ph.D. is a tenure-track position in which you work for about 6 to 7 years and then come up for tenure. A positive tenure decision results in a tenured position which you hold until you resign, retire, or do something really egregious such as harass a student.

Depending upon the field (English, Psychology, etc.), you may have to write a book or a several articles and have good teaching evaluations to get tenure. Some departments/schools are notorious for NOT awarding tenure, no matter how good you are w/ publications and teaching, such as Harvard and Yale. 

Johns Hopkins is a top university and I imagine they expect a lot of publications and/or a book in Educational Leadership.

[nb360]

On 9/21/2020 at 7:52 AM, mytmo said:

$280k for a vanity project.  What a waste.  

Especially since podcasts are relatively inexpensive to produce, once you have the equipment. And the equipment can be rented fairly inexpensively if it is not owned by the person doing the podcast.  

[ladle]

I have no idea what her CV looks like or what the expectations are in her field,  but maybe there’s something to the theory that Dr Wendy fears her tenure will be denied. The adjunctification of higher ed is very real. It is incredibly difficult to land a tenure-track job, especially in a desirable urban area like DC where your spouse also has a chance of holding a good job. I recognize that academia is not for everybody, but there’s no way I’d give up my tenure for a stint as a Housewife (not that Bravo is calling... 😂).

[bosawks]

How cool would it be to say your Dad was a jazz singing dentist.

And Ashley noshing on her salad while Michael was flop sweating all over the producer made me love her for just a little bit.