S11.E08: You Can Get Out of This!

[PamelaMaeSnap]

On 9/3/2020 at 10:13 AM, LaLaLaLa said:

I think Bennett's friend has a "thing" for him and is not happy that she missed out.

Absolutely positively this. 

[TheMediumBopper]

6 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

In the same vein, Brett is Mr. HomeBody versus Mr. HardBody...

Mr. Spreadsheet Versus Mr. In Between the Sheets

Mr. PennyPincher versus Mr. BottomPincher

The jokes write themselves....

Mr. Skinflint vs. Mr. Skin Trade.

Mr. Cheap Eats vs. Mr. Cheap Thrills.

Mr. Tightwad vs. Mr. Sticky Wad.

 

You're right; this could go on forever!

[TheMediumBopper]

I finally caught the episode late, but of course I read this whole thread beforehand and was really looking forward to seeing Henry show some evidence of having a spine. It did not disappoint. The long-suffering smirk he has on his face when Christina is floundering around bitching about production tells all. I thought to myself, "Where have I seen that smirk before?", and then I remembered: Ed O' Neil as Al Bundy. That would make Christina Peg by extension. These two people really are miserable around each other. Why I by far prefer Henry is because I think Christina can find a way to be miserable in any situation, whereas Henry is probably a pretty affable guy in his own quiet, low-key way. At the wedding, I remember one of Christina's guests (her mom, maybe?) saying that Henry's family was "a real Cajun family." I think about that sometimes when I think about Henry. I've only known one Cajun family, but they were a low-key lot with a sense of humor so subtle that you'd miss it if you weren't looking for it.

Another thing that hit me during this episode is when Christina said, "Why won't you look me in the eye?" and Henry said, "I have trouble with eye contact. I know it's something I need to work on." I felt like that was a real moment; he sounded a little pained as I said it, and I felt for him.  I've noticed that he often does something I used to do: He'll look at people when they're talking, but then when he starts talking he breaks eye contact and looks off in a different direction. I used to find it especially hard to make eye contact when I was talking because that made me feel self-conscious about what I was saying.  Maybe I was afraid of seeing that "You're an idiot!" look in the other person's face. But really, I can remember finding it hard to focus on what I wanted to say and to look at someone's face at the same time. It took me many years to train myself to do this.

I have not heard Christina utter a single thing that she needs to work on, but I'm sure the list is long.

[ShowFan]

On 9/3/2020 at 6:05 PM, princelina said:

I have felt like after Luke, Zach and Brandon everyone was looking for this year's villain and decided it would be Brett on day 1.  I'd take Brett all day long over the 2 douchebag kings and the drunken asshole.

He is nowhere close! I’ve been following him on Reddit and he pretty much won me over with his wittiness. The way he responds to the haters is just hilarious and he comes across pretty emotionally intelligent. I’m not saying that I actually like him as in i would date him, that I would not do. But he is funny!

[Shieldmaiden]

On 9/2/2020 at 6:50 PM, Silver Bells said:

I could NEVER live with a guy that was so cheap.  I believe in saving, but not to that extent.  I’m surprised he bought steak.

THIS!! My college boyfriend was sooooooo cheap - why should I get you a card or flowers for Valentine’s Day, they just get thrown away or die?! Dinner and a show was all you can eat at Pizza Haven and the $1.00 movie theater 🙄 He did show me EVERY SINGLE free parking spot in the city of Seattle but I traded him in for a lovely guy who understands the value of treating yourself and others as well as paying for parking! (32 years and counting). 

[Shieldmaiden]

On 9/3/2020 at 12:41 PM, Retired at last said:

At least when Olivia and Brett have a conversation, they are both speaking and asking questions like normal people do. For example, when Brett mentioned blowing, Olivia answered that she loved bowling and that lead Brett to ask her what her bowling team's name would be - like a real conversation.

ChristinA is interviewing Henry, not talking to or with him. He clearly doesn't (that we have seen) give her much to work with and doesn't seem to bounce off her questions to him to ask what her thoughts are, so I can understand her frustration. Plus, the dopey music the show plays to highlight the awkwardness doesn't help. But the way they keep the camera on ChristinA when she is obviously embarrassed and makes goofy faces isn't really necessary.

Might have been mentioned but when she does ask him questions, she doesn’t even listen to his answers - when she asked about wine, he said “I’d like rose” but she went on and said “red?”... She’s exhausting.

[Lois Sandborne]

On 9/3/2020 at 9:34 AM, Stinamaia said:

 

Say what you will about Henry’s lack of communication (take a drink,) Christina doesn’t bother to have civil conversation with him even for the camera.  

Yes. I think it's kind of getting lost because of Henry's whole deal and all of the complaining she's doing about it, but Christina is quite the dullard herself. This episode and especially the example you quoted, @Stinamaia, put a fine point on it, but I've thought of Christina as a poor communicator from the beginning; during their awkward wedding first she cut him off when he was talking to fret about her earrings, then for the rest of the night she had as many one or two word answers to all those dumb yes-or-no questions as Henry did. She might be able to look people in the eyes and say bitchy things, but a sparkling conversationalist she is not.

I'm wondering like everybody else why in the world Henry and Christina were matched, but the only thing I'm sure of is it wasn't compatibility. They don't like each other, aren't attracted to each other, don't seem to share interests in hobbies or lifestyle. People with more personality might have actually done something for the both of them. Instead, it feels like they're both holding out to see if the other will leave first. But I agree with whoever said "rude" is a better descriptor for Christina's attitude than "impatient." Lesson 1, Henry. Use your words.

In other news, I wish Miles could get a second crack at this show. Or call me. Whichever.

One last thought: musical chairs is fun at any age.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Lois Sandborne

[Mrs. Button]

Quote

I don't either. A cheapskate would be eating hamburger rather than that delicious steak he cooked. 

Please, it was probably on sale during double coupon day.

I still can't get over the fact that he thought an alarm was an unreasonable expense for a woman living on her own. That says EVERYTHING about what's important to him. He's pennywise and (incredibly) pound foolish.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Mrs. Button

[DrewPaul2010]

On 9/4/2020 at 11:11 AM, Yeah No said:

I'm married but never had kids and don't feel like the holidays or any other days would have "meant so much more" if I had had kids.  Different things make different people happy.  People can throw themselves into other worthy pursuits that take the focus off of them and onto others, it doesn't have to be your blood children.  None of these pursuits are something having kids necessarily makes better.  The things I was able to do with my life without kids aren't somehow less meaningful or wonderful.  A person's life can be filled with other things that are just as meaningful to THEM and no less meaningful just by virtue of not involving kids.  I know a couple that breeds show dogs - they are big into animal rescue too, and have dedicated their lives to helping dogs.  I was able to use my "extra" time to help friends and be there for them when they needed me, which I probably would have less time or energy to do if I'd had kids.  So it's all relative, IMO, and the reason I don't judge anyone who chooses not to be married or have kids.  Olivia might be missing something in life for other reasons.  Not wanting marriage or kids is not necessarily the reason.

I hope you don't think expressing an opinion in a discussion board about a reality TV show is judging anyone. The point of what I said is some don't have children because they mistakenly think its a terrible burden and indeed it is a sacrifice but one full of immeasurable rewards. My gut feeling tells me there are far fewer who regret having children then those who regret not having children if they could have.

[StatisticalOutlier]

4 hours ago, Lois Sandborne said:

One last thought: musical chairs is fun at any age.

I've never played musical chairs as an adult, but I hated it when I was a kid.  Who wants to push and shove over a fucking chair?

 

1 hour ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

The point of what I said is some don't have children because they mistakenly think its a terrible burden and indeed it is a sacrifice but one full of immeasurable rewards. My gut feeling tells me there are far fewer who regret having children then those who regret not having children if they could have.

I'm not sure what you mean by "if they could have."  If you mean people who wanted to bear children but couldn't, then I'm sure they regret not being able to have them.  But it's not a universe of just the barren and people who have children.  There are a lot of people who don't want children just because they don't want them, without any calculation of what a burden it would be.  They just don't want them.  And I've never done a study but I added it up the other day and I have a huge number of childfree friends, and none of them regret it.

Plus, we as a society are just now beginning to accept people who say out loud that they don't want to have children.  We're nowhere near ready for people to actually express regret at having them, so nobody's going to admit it in public.  Which is fine with me--it's bound to hurt if a parent says, "I wish I'd never had you."  But that doesn't mean they don't think it.

 

22 hours ago, TheMediumBopper said:

Another thing that hit me during this episode is when Christina said, "Why won't you look me in the eye?" and Henry said, "I have trouble with eye contact. I know it's something I need to work on." I felt like that was a real moment; he sounded a little pained as I said it, and I felt for him. 

He invoked Dr. Pepper in his statement (like "Ask Dr. Pepper"), which seemed weird.  I can guarantee you she doesn't know any more about his not looking people in the eye than he does.

[LuvMyShows]

3 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

He invoked Dr. Pepper in his statement (like "Ask Dr. Pepper"), which seemed weird.  I can guarantee you she doesn't know any more about his not looking people in the eye than he does.

I simply took that to mean that he and Dr. Pepper had discussed it previously...either because he brought it up to her, or she noticed and asked him about it.

[TheMediumBopper]

2 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I simply took that to mean that he and Dr. Pepper had discussed it previously...either because he brought it up to her, or she noticed and asked him about it.

Yes, I also took this to mean that he had probably discussed this at length with Dr. Pepper. Which further underscores how weird it is that the 'experts' picked him to be on this show, knowing of at least some of his social and communicative difficulties. I love Henry, don't get me wrong, but reality TV material he ain't.

Another revealing line was when Henry said, "I would never do this in a million years! My friends think I'm crazy!" But he is doing it, and some of us have speculated elsewhere on why he ever signed on for this. Maybe somebody's blackmailing him. Maybe someone's got video footage of him doing something dastardly, like cutting a tag off a mattress. I just can't even imagine.

[StatisticalOutlier]

1 hour ago, TheMediumBopper said:

Another revealing line was when Henry said, "I would never do this in a million years! My friends think I'm crazy!" But he is doing it, and some of us have speculated elsewhere on why he ever signed on for this. Maybe somebody's blackmailing him. Maybe someone's got video footage of him doing something dastardly, like cutting a tag off a mattress. I just can't even imagine.

I'll just blame Trishelle.

[TheMediumBopper]

12 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I'll just blame Trishelle.

Seriously, though. Sometimes I've imagined a pre-casting scenario that went something like this:

Trishelle: Henry, if you get picked for the show, I can be on TV for five minutes again. Five minutes is all I need. Pleeeease, Henry? The last time I was on TV was on that shitty Steve-O show all the way back in 2007. Thirteen years is a long time. This could be my big break, Henry. Don't you want me to get my big break?

Henry: Well.. um.... hm.

Trishelle: Come on, Henry! I thought we were friends! At least just apply. Humor me. They probably won't even pick you in a million years, right?

Edited September 7, 2020 by TheMediumBopper

[Ilovepie]

On 9/5/2020 at 5:02 AM, Empress1 said:

I once went on a date with an actuary who didn’t want kids, primarily because he just didn’t want them, but he’d also literally done the math (because: actuary) and figured out how much he’d saved by being child-free, and done his budget and long-term savings and investment goals accordingly. He was like “I can retire at 55!”

 

Wow. If looking for financial freedom is more important than the intangible benefits that having kids brings, you are definitely better off childless bc kids are certainly a drain on the old bank account!

But people having been having kids on accident and on purpose in less than ideal financial situations and somehow they managed it. I was raised by my divorced dad with a middle class income from the age of five. He put me through private school, and we also took vacations. Did we go to Europe or Hawaii? No, we went camping. Sometimes there are trade offs. 

If Brett really wants kids he can make it happen. Something else in his budget will have to go, like beer or one or two of his twenty hobbies.....

[humbleopinion]

On 9/5/2020 at 5:02 AM, Empress1 said:

 he’d also literally done the math (because: actuary) and figured out how much he’d saved by being child-free, and done his budget and long-term savings and investment goals accordingly. He was like “I can retire at 55!”

 

Brett: You mean if I stick to cats only, I can retire before any of my stupid brothers?

H+R Block representative: You really need to speak to your accountant, not this free 800 line....

Brett: And my health insurance will pay to get snip snipped free?

H+R Block: Sir, I cannot give you any assurances....

Brett: Wait, I can get neutered free at the Health Clinic...sign me up.....

H+R Block: You will need to call another phone number other than this one.....

Edited September 8, 2020 by humbleopinion

[Empress1]

37 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

If Brett really wants kids he can make it happen. Something else in his budget will have to go, like beer or one or two of his twenty hobbies..

I don’t think Brett has said anything about his finances being an obstacle to having kids. In fact, since he’s a planner and he’s said he wants them, I would guess he’s more likely to have made a timeline and budget for having them, particularly since I think he has a government job so his professional life and income is pretty stable. 

(The guy I went out with didn’t want kids because he didn’t want kids. He came to that conclusion long ago, independent of his finances. His mindset was “OK, I don’t want to have kids. Since I’m not going to have kids, how much am I saving, and how can I best put that money to use?” because that was how his mind worked given his profession. Not “wow, I can save how much? Better not have kids, then.”)

[zoltana]

On 9/3/2020 at 8:00 AM, humbleopinion said:

The segment showing XTinA directing the pre party by calling  “And scene“ then bitching that the film schedule was to be fifteen minutes means the editors wanted the audience to see she is a nightmare to everyone involved...not just Henry.

Get the feeling that she is huffy, stamps her feet and is openly hostile to the crew. 
The pettiness of having to be lavished with gratitude for grocery shopping, bedspread shopping is Pitiful.

Henry, Venmo her damn money, your half of the party supplies.

Good on Henny for the pushback on how light her gratitude was To him when he paid for her fancy Michelin starred dinner and then opened his wallet for a $70 tab at a Mexican eatery.
Tit meet Tat.

You know they're leaving that in for our benefit.  She can't cry, it was the editing!, when they've got her being snarky to them. 

I'm actually on the Henry side.  I feel like I understand his personality pretty well.  My SO is not a talker.  Doesn't matter if it's home or out (which isn't often because he doesn't like to be out).  When he does he has a hard time looking people in the eye.  For myself, I have an inner monologue going all the time, but I'm pretty quiet outwardly until I get to know others.  Once I know someone and I'm comfortable then I can talk your ear off.  My observation with Henry is that he's always thinking and prefers to avoid confrontation, and may live by that rule that if you don't have anything nice to say... Another poster mentioned how he was talkative with the guys.  The ability is there.  It's the company that's unappealing.  For myself, being around ChristinA would be draining and I'd want to be alone to recharge.  P.S. Henry kind of looks like a regular guys George Clooney.

[humbleopinion]

1 hour ago, zoltana said:

My observation with Henry is that he's always thinking and prefers to avoid confrontation, and may live by that rule that if you don't have anything nice to say... Another poster mentioned how he was talkative with the guys.  The ability is there.  It's the company that's unappealing.  For myself, being around ChristinA would be draining and I'd want to be alone to recharge.  

Henry shuts down most notably around his Hellish Bride and his Diarrhea of the Mouth Father.

Henny types have plenty to say...it may not be a running monologue of zinging retorts or slinging snarky comments...but they are defending themselves in their heads.

[Neurochick]

On 9/6/2020 at 4:03 PM, DrewPaul2010 said:

I hope you don't think expressing an opinion in a discussion board about a reality TV show is judging anyone. The point of what I said is some don't have children because they mistakenly think its a terrible burden and indeed it is a sacrifice but one full of immeasurable rewards. My gut feeling tells me there are far fewer who regret having children then those who regret not having children if they could have.

Many people just don't want kids and are glad they didn't have them.  You'd be surprised the many people who regret having kids.   

[humbleopinion]

For the few still keeping track....

One Woodster shrug dance while browning flour tortillas for their get together....

Anyone disappointed that Miles/KareBear not invited?

[cardigirl]

41 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Many people just don't want kids and are glad they didn't have them.  You'd be surprised the many people who regret having kids.   

That's really a sad statement. Poor kids. 

 

 

[Empress1]

42 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

For the few still keeping track....

One Woodster shrug dance while browning flour tortillas for their get together....

Anyone disappointed that Miles/KareBear not invited?

I think the fact that Miles & Woody’s friendship predates the show is interesting because I suspect they’d do more stuff together if the show let them. Like, if only one of them were on the show, the other would probably be invited to a house party at the other’s house, but since they’re both on the show they have to do separate things. They couldn’t go to each other’s weddings either since the weddings seemed to happen on the same day (Amani & Woody stopped by Karen & Miles’s room after the weddings & everybody was still in their wedding clothes).

[humbleopinion]

The knuckleheads producing this show should be taking advantage of this bestie relationship and show them meshing all their friend groups...better than those awkward,  spin the bottle, jenga, truth or dare juvie games.

 

[StatisticalOutlier]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Many people just don't want kids and are glad they didn't have them.  You'd be surprised the many people who regret having kids.   

That's really a sad statement. Poor kids. 

Not necessarily.  Regret doesn't have to be acted on, or even manifested.  Regretting having kids doesn't mean you don't love them. 

[cardigirl]

45 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Not necessarily.  Regret doesn't have to be acted on, or even manifested.  Regretting having kids doesn't mean you don't love them. 

Um, I honestly believe that if one regrets something so HUGE as having children, the kids are going to know it. Now if it's a minor regret, like delaying your education, or career, or a trip around the world, etc., I guess I can see that might be something that doesn't really affect the kids too much, but what was implied by the statement, to me, was the regret of being a parent, meaning having kids was a MISTAKE,  ruined the parent's life, and nobody wants to be a mistake, NO ONE. If you are feeling it, you will manifest it.  Otherwise it's no longer a mistake, but something that  maybe you've accepted and come to terms with and by golly, even learned to enjoy along the way.  

[Ilovepie]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Many people just don't want kids and are glad they didn't have them.  You'd be surprised the many people who regret having kids.   

That's really a sad statement. Poor kids. 

Not necessarily.  Regret doesn't have to be acted on, or even manifested.  Regretting having kids doesn't mean you don't love them. 

This. I have a 15yo daughter who is mentally ill. She was 5150 twice in junior high. She has been difficult since birth, but puberty has magnified her problems 1000 percent. Raising her has been the most difficult thing I have ever had to do. Do I regret having her? No. Do I have dark moments where I think about how much easier my life would be without her? Yes. But I have given this kid everything I have to help her. Raising kids is hard!

[Mrs. Button]

Quote

Um, I honestly believe that if one regrets something so HUGE as having children, the kids are going to know it. Now if it's a minor regret, like delaying your education, or career, or a trip around the world, etc., I guess I can see that might be something that doesn't really affect the kids too much, but what was implied by the statement, to me, was the regret of being a parent, meaning having kids was a MISTAKE,  ruined the parent's life, and nobody wants to be a mistake, NO ONE. If you are feeling it, you will manifest it.  Otherwise it's no longer a mistake, but something that  maybe you've accepted and come to terms with and by golly, even learned to enjoy along the way.  

Looking at the world around me, I definitely wonder if having a child (she is now 14) was, ultimately, a wise choice, and at times I definitely regret bringing her into this world. I don't regret for *a moment* having her in my life — I adore her to the ends of the earth, even if she's a major PITA in this particular developmental stage, I wouldn't trade it for anything — but my love for her is such, at times I absolutely regret bringing her to life if it is going to hold challenges I did not envision for her. I seriously worry about the kind of world she will be an adult in. Maybe that makes me a bad parent — I think it makes me an honest one.

[cardigirl]

12 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

This. I have a 15yo daughter who is mentally ill. She was 5150 twice in junior high. She has been difficult since birth, but puberty has magnified her problems 1000 percent. Raising her has been the most difficult thing I have ever had to do. Do I regret having her? No. Do I have dark moments where I think about how much easier my life would be without her? Yes. But I have given this kid everything I have to help her. Raising kids is hard!

 

1 minute ago, Mrs. Button said:

Looking at the world around me, I definitely wonder if having a child (she is now 14) was, ultimately, a wise choice, and at times I definitely regret bringing her into this world. I don't regret for *a moment* having her in my life — I adore her to the ends of the earth, even if she's a major PITA in this particular developmental stage, I wouldn't trade it for anything — but my love for her is such, at times I absolutely regret bringing her to life if it is going to hold challenges I did not envision for her. I seriously worry about the kind of world she will be an adult in. Maybe that makes me a bad parent — I think it makes me an honest one.

This is not TRUE REGRET in my very humble opinion. I have two children myself. Going through the teen years was extremely difficult (for them and me, lol) but I never doubted that I was glad they were mine and I was theirs. ILOVEPIE, you have all my admiration for the journey you are on. You definitely have a difficult path to follow. 

True regret is wishing the kids were gone, in my opinion.  That they had never been born.  And yes, I think there are parents out there who feel that way.  

As for bringing kids into the "awful world," the world had always been a dangerous and terrible place. Life is hard. No one would have ever been born if people waited for the world to be safe and secure. 

[Mrs. Button]

23 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

As for bringing kids into the "awful world," the world had always been a dangerous and terrible place. Life is hard. No one would have ever been born if people waited for the world to be safe and secure. 

Regret is a personal emotion. Different people experience it differently. Personally, I lived and worked downtown on 9/11— but everything changed for me, forever, when we lost a family member at Parkland. Losing a 14-year-old nephew in English class does make you see the world a lot differently, and parent a lot differently as well. I hope others never have to experience this. That is one (of many) reasons why I completely respect the decision of any woman not to bring a child into the world. And, so much of mothering in my experience is about criticizing women: you're having the baby too early, or too late, or you don't work, or you do work, or you send them to the wrong school, or you let them have phones too early ....

Why visit that judgment on those like Olivia who choose to remain childless for their own reasons? Having a baby because it is expected of you can lead directly into regretting said baby IMHO. That's why I so adore Amelia and Bennett — they could care less what anyone else thinks, they're true to themselves and the idea of living their best lives. I think that's also why, interestingly, they irritate so many; they don't care about society's "rules." Good for them!

Edited September 8, 2020 by Mrs. Button
grammar

[cardigirl]

To clarify, I was not addressing the decision to not have children.

I think people have the right to decide if they want to have kids or not, and they have the right to change their minds.  I have many friends who have decided they do not want to be parents and that is absolutely their decision to make and there is nothing wrong with that.

I was addressing a comment made about people having children and regretting it, which I find sad.  I'm sure it's true that some people do regret that choice, and if it is true regret (not just the momentary regret many parents experience during tough times), I'm sure the child suffers for it.  That's what I was speaking to. 

I don't think less of Olivia for not wanting kids or not being sure she wants kids (as she sort of said after talking with Brett one episode). If she declared that to the experts and they matched her with someone who definitely wants to have kids, that's bad on their part. She seems uncertain at this point, to me. More like she wants to do more travel, and experience more things before she decides about kids. Brett seemingly does not.

 

[Sycophant4Lease]

On a lighter note:

Did anyone (other than my wife, my daughter and her boyfriend, and I) laugh and rewind during the scene at the party?  When Olivia's friend turned and (annoyingly) greeted the cat? 

That cat's reaction was classic.  Basically it was something like:  "Bitch, please.  You know I never liked you.  And when the hell are y'all leaving?  As a matter of fact, we moved to a different place in another part of town, and you STILL found us?"  All as the cat turned away, and it's ears just laid back.

Goodness, cats are so damn funny.  We re-watched that scene at least four times.  Best part of the episode, in my opinion.

[princelina]

On 9/6/2020 at 2:31 PM, Mrs. Button said:

I still can't get over the fact that he thought an alarm was an unreasonable expense for a woman living on her own. That says EVERYTHING about what's important to him. He's pennywise and (incredibly) pound foolish.

I didn't think he saw it as unreasonable - he seemed surprised that she had one because it probably never occurred to him, and then made a joke about getting a dog.

[Ilovepie]

13 minutes ago, princelina said:

I didn't think he saw it as unreasonable - he seemed surprised that she had one because it probably never occurred to him, and then made a joke about getting a dog.

The funny thing about that though is that a dog is definitely going to cost more than an alarm!

[TheMediumBopper]

On 9/8/2020 at 2:14 PM, cardigirl said:

That's really a sad statement. Poor kids. 

 

 

It's a true statement, though. Parents who regret having kids keep that pretty close to the vest because it's a taboo thing to express. I have had some people express this to me in confidence. It doesn't mean they don't love their children. It just means that if they could have a do-over, perhaps they'd choose differently. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by TheMediumBopper

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 9/9/2020 at 5:19 PM, TheMediumBopper said:

It's a true statement, though. Parents who regret having kids keep that pretty close to the vest because it's a taboo thing to express. I have had some people express this to me in confidence. It doesn't mean they don't love their children. It just means that if they could have a do-over, perhaps they'd choose differently. 

Regardless of whether it's a taboo thing to express (which I agree it is), the last thing you want is for your kids to find out how you feel.  So keeping it pretty close to the vest is a kind thing to do.

[Yeah No]

On 9/6/2020 at 4:03 PM, DrewPaul2010 said:

I hope you don't think expressing an opinion in a discussion board about a reality TV show is judging anyone. The point of what I said is some don't have children because they mistakenly think its a terrible burden and indeed it is a sacrifice but one full of immeasurable rewards. My gut feeling tells me there are far fewer who regret having children then those who regret not having children if they could have.

I wasn't offended by it, but I felt that you were assuming that most other people would feel the way YOU would feel if you didn't have kids, but people can feel differently about it, in my opinion.  Different people need different things and have differing gifts and shortcomings.  The wise and truly caring person knows how to channel those gifts in ways that put them to their best use.  Not everyone is cut out to be a parent.  It's not all about whether you are or aren't willing to make sacrifices.  Putting it in those terms seems like a judgment because you assume that people who choose not to have kids are unwilling to make sacrifices.  That's not always the case.  It can be about knowing that your talents don't lie in that area but lie somewhere else.  You can make sacrifices to some other cause in life that doesn't involve having kids.

Also, there is a difference between people who make an active choice not to have kids and those who would have if their lives had cooperated in some way.  I have read numerous articles with interviews over the decades, and all seem to indicate that most people who actively choose to be child free don't some day regret it.  Of course if they were on the fence and life didn't fully cooperate by presenting the ideal partner, or they weren't willing or able to have fertility treatments of course those people might have some regrets.  But those people are in a different group.

Also, as others have said, you'd be surprised how many people will admit to regretting having kids.  When you yourself don't have kids your friends and family members feel free to admit to you privately that they have had second thoughts about having their kids over the years.  Interestingly, none of my child-free friends has EVER voiced any regret to me (and they would if they felt it) nor would I feel that way myself.

My first boyfriend in high school was trapped into having kids by his wife.  She knew he didn't want them but knew he wouldn't divorce her if she just happened to get pregnant.  He has often admitted to me that he never wanted kids even though he loves his kids. 

My husband's friend's kids have many problems such as alcoholism, refusing to go to school, get a job, etc., etc.  He is almost 60 with two kids approaching 30 still living at home.  He often tells my husband how smart we were to never have kids.  I'm sure he doesn't mean to suggest that he doesn't love his kids, but given how they disrespect him despite how many BIG sacrifices he has made for them and advantages he gave them, we don't blame him for saying that one bit.  He has been a loving and supportive father and this is the thanks he gets.

Also, one of my best friends from college became a nun.  She gave up not only children but marriage as well and from everything I know about her I doubt very much that she regrets it.

Anyway, sorry to go on so long.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Yeah No