S11.E06: I See Red Flags

[dirtypop90]

3 hours ago, JapMo said:

YES.  I mean it's as simple as that.  She knows he's a nice guy.  She knows she should feel over the moon lucky she got him.  She knows her family probably already loves him.  But physically, he just doesn't interest her.  There's no spark.  But of course she doesn't want to hurt him.  Plus she likes Amani and Woody and they would be disappointed.  So she makes excuses for not wanting to touch him or hold hands or kiss him.  She throws out anything that might stick...he's too young...he's had sooooooo many relationships.   Those things don't really matter to her.  And then she has Miles to confront.  The more she pulls back, the more understanding Miles becomes.  And why?  BECAUSE HE KNOWS.  Oh yes....Miles knows.  He feels it.  He's holding on by his fingertips, trying everything he can think of to be that better man that she will then like/love.

It's so sad, and I don't hate Karen for it.  She can't talk to Amani...she doesn't really know her that well and what if Amani told Woody and he told Miles?  Karen feels isolated.  If she calls Rev Cal, he'll say give it a chance.  But way down deep in the pit of her stomach, Karen knows she's going to have to hurt everybody...eventually.  It's just a matter of when she finally decides she just can't fake it anymore.

Are you sure Dave gave her a 7?  I thought he gave her a 5.

I feel for her. Because she seems like a nice woman. She’s no Matt or Luke or even Zach. If she told him she wasn’t into him, he wasn’t her type, like men have in this situation, she’d be torn to shreds. But she doesn’t want him, at all. He checks probably none of her boxes. She’s not being mean about it but you cant expect her to jump for joy about it. And you’re right, she likes Woody and Amani!! It’s a bad situation to be in. I blame the experts for thinking these two were in any way compatible. Like I couldn’t even see them striking up a convo at the bar. They don’t seem to even have good conversation. Just two people being cordial to each other.

[DrewPaul2010]

Quote

Are you sure Dave gave her a 7?  I thought he gave her a 5.

I recall 7.5 ultimately it was her own insecurities that led to their marriage failing. Hope she found someone better.

I wonder if they could get enough fan favorites to pick 5 previous woman and 5 previous men and match them with new spouses? I hope they do take this idea and run with it I'll watch!

I wonder if Heather from season 4 would take a chance? Probably not.

Sonia (season 4) was adorable maybe she would?

How about bring the virgin back on and see if we can fix that : )

 

[Meowwww]

I still like Olivia.  I also like nice things.  Hubby makes wayyyy more than I do, but he likes nice things too.  We don’t live outside our means, and I dont know why many think she does.  
Also, I have been on antidepressants forever.  They saved my life.  I am not weird or a red flag, I can’t help my brain chemistry.  It seems like a personal attack, those of you saying you wouldn’t be with someone on meds.  Those of us on meds, we don’t talk about it....guaranteed your friends and neighbors might be on them.  Doesn’t make us lesser people and worthy of being passed by.  
Sorry, but mental health is near and dear to my heart.  We aren’t out there murdering people or being awful....the comments here just make me sad.  If you haven’t lived it, don’t judge it.  I’m disappointed.  

Edited August 21, 2020 by Meowwww

[Yeah No]

37 minutes ago, Meowwww said:

I still like Olivia.  I also like nice things.  Hubby makes wayyyy more than I do, but he likes nice things too.  We don’t live outside our means, and I dont know why many think she does.  
Also, I have been on antidepressants forever.  They saved my life.  I am not weird or a red flag, I can’t help my brain chemistry.  It seems like a personal attack, those of you saying you wouldn’t be with someone on meds.  Those of us on meds, we don’t talk about it....guaranteed your friends and neighbors might be on them.  Doesn’t make us lesser people and worthy of being passed by.  
Sorry, but mental health is near and dear to my heart.  We aren’t out there murdering people or being awful....the comments here just make me sad.  If you haven’t lived it, don’t judge it.  I’m disappointed.  

I have been clinically depressed and on meds. and I wouldn't have wished myself on anyone when in that state.  But I overcame and dealt with it as have you, but this is not your situation or mine. This is being married to a stranger and not knowing what the deal is with them and how well they're managing their condition.  When you already love someone you don't leave them for being depressed, think less of them, judge them or anything else.  I never said that and it hurts me that people are assuming that.  I also never said that anyone should pass anyone by for being depressed.  I am talking about being married at first sight, not yours or anyone else's relationships, which are nothing like on this show.  It is simply unfair to commit someone to life to deal with another person's serious issues when they don't know them or know if they even like them.  We don't like it when the show matches people with other potentially destructive issues, so what's the difference here?  Miles may not be so healthy, and his issues could be potentially damaging to any committed relationship.  I'm glad to hear that everyone else is managing or has overcome their condition (I did) but we don't yet know if Miles is coping that well.  It's a red flag, that's all.  It doesn't mean I'm not open to giving him a chance or that Karen shouldn't give him a chance (another thing I never implied).  It just means that if he's not coping that well with it she got dealt a bad hand.  And I don't have much faith in this show to know how well he's coping either.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Yeah No

[LaLaLaLa]

5 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

Amelia has a great voice!  I typically hate the indie girl talk/sing but Amelia didn't over do that at all.  I really like her a lot and I'm enjoying watching two people really crush on each other.

I feel the same way and said the same thing. 

[TheMediumBopper]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

Look, I've had a really shitty life lately.  My father died of Covid in April, my first love and my favorite college professor both died in July, a good friend from HS died last week (none of those from Covid), TWO of my best friends were in the hospital at the same time with mystery illnesses for weeks and only just got out almost on the same day, my brother in law is in and out of the hospital with pancreatic cancer, my husband has ZERO income since the pandemic and I fell and bruised a rib 2 weeks ago after our power was out for two days in 90 degree heat due to a storm, and only now am feeling somewhat better although I think I might be developing an ulcer.  So please think about the person behind the opinion before you pile on me.   We are all entitled to an opinion.  Please respect mine.  Thank you.

I'm new to the forum, so perhaps these words won't mean much coming from me. But I did want to say that I am sincerely sorry for your recent losses and hardships. I also wanted to agree that we are all entitled to our opinions. There have been tremendous gains in our understanding and treatment of mental illness and recent decades, and with that has come a certain amount of de-stigmatization and a general understanding that a functional person with mental illness is essentially as 'normal' as anyone else in all the ways that count. I don't personally know many people who would view being matched with Miles, whose depression is self-described as "something [you] wouldn't even know unless I told you," as having been "dealt a bad hand." Nor do I know many people who would react as unsympathetically as Karen seemed to, with that bizarre comment about masculinity. Maybe I live in a bubble. If so, so be it.  I hope you have a change of luck soon and that better days await you.

Edited August 21, 2020 by TheMediumBopper

[Rae Spellman]

 

9 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

I’m not sure a young man who struggles with mental health is appropriate for an experience like this.

I still like Amani and Woody, with caution, but she probably shouldn’t have slept with him so soon.

Oh, this could be a terrible experience for Miles. Even so, he seems like he'll be a better spouse (in a couple of years) than plenty of the people on this show who haven't disclosed a mental health diagnosis. 

If Woody is a player who isn't really ready to settle down, he'll still be that guy in three weeks, five weeks, or eight weeks. Maybe it's a a tiny bit difficult to wait to have sex with a flirty guy that you are attracted to who is in your bed every night. I'm impressed that she was able to make it past that first shower with the chastity belt in tact. 

7 hours ago, SabineElisabeth said:

I would actually guess we're low balling Olivia's salary ...  Salaries for NPs differ greatly based on specific area of practice/specialty, as well as how much/little you choose to work. Given that Olivia is currently in a position where she works a lot, she might lean towards the higher end of the salary spectrum. 

One could make $90K in ITD or $138K as a nurse working for my employer, a county social services agency. Both jobs are  civil service jobs, 40 hrs/week, day shift, weekends and holidays off in a region w/ a higher cost of living than NOLA. Still, I could imagine Brett making $70K and Olivia making $150K if he's in the public sector and she is working in a setting that would allow her to make more due to different work hours, her specialty, overtime, etc.   

Regarding the discussion about Olivia finding time to speak to her relatives and friends daily while working a lot, it wouldn't necessarily take that much time. I use to talk to my sister several days a week on the drive to work, walk to the local Starbuck w/ work friends during break, and chat w/ my next door neighbor for a few minutes after work. So, on any given day I could have interactions with 4+ people that didn't live in my home, and describe it in a way that makes it seem like I am very social when only the 5-10 minute chat with the neighbor took place outside commuting/work hours.  A couple of those people Olivia mentioned could have been staff at or owners of the places she buys dinner!

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, RaeSpellman said:

Regarding the discussion about Olivia finding time to speak to her relatives and friends daily while working a lot, it wouldn't necessarily take that much time. I use to talk to my sister several days a week on the drive to work, walk to the local Starbuck w/ work friends during break, and chat w/ my next door neighbor for a few minutes after work. So, on any given day I could have interactions with 4+ people that didn't live in my home, and describe it in a way that makes it seem like I am very social when only the 5-10 minute chat with the neighbor took place outside commuting/work hours.  A couple of those people Olivia mentioned could have been staff at or owners of the places she buys dinner!

I think Brett did ask her, though, where he fit in with all of that, and all she gave him was a sour face.  And then said something about she shouldn't be expected to change her life around.  Hmmm.  Hello, marriage changes things. 

[Yeah No]

13 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

In the minority I’m sure, but I’m not feeling Miles. Karen’s statements re masculinity were ignorant. But Miles is too young for her. He’s not romantic; does a lot of annoying teasing instead.  I really saw it when he was asking the others where they thought she could beat him in a race. That was something me and my old college boyfriend used to argue about because were both athletes. I would think it was a little weird now that I’m in Karen’s age range. And dropping a bomb like that about being on medication for clinical depression during honeymoon also shows his age because he hasn’t learn “right place and right time.” And I don’t think they’ve mentioned a career for him yet which concerns me. Karen also just isn’t physically attracted to him. Karen needed an older man. And I’m not sure a young man who struggles with mental health is appropriate for an experience like this.

I agree with you.  While I think his "bomb drop" about the depression was producer-timed, I see the signs of immaturity in him.  That's not saying that Karen is a prize package because I think she thinks she's better and more mature than he is and deserves someone older and more mature than him.  She may not be giving him enough of a chance.  And I agree with you about him struggling with depression.  Not everyone has conquered it, and we don't yet know if Miles has and is all we hope he will turn out to be.  So I'm not sure either.  Nothing against Miles - I have been hoping since day one that he turns out to be a great catch like he seemed to be in the beginning.  But like you I have been seeing some flags to indicate that this may not be the case.  Like I also thought him bringing up the 10 monogamous relationships so soon and in that way was a little strange, although that also might have been producer instigated.  Time will tell.

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, TheMediumBopper said:

I'm new to the forum, so perhaps these words won't mean much coming from me. But I did want to say that I am sincerely sorry for your recent losses and hardships. I also wanted to agree that we are all entitled to our opinions. There have been tremendous gains in our understanding and treatment of mental illness and recent decades, and with that has come a certain amount of de-stigmatization and a general understanding that a functional person with mental illness is essentially as 'normal' as anyone else in all the ways that count. I don't personally know many people who would view being matched with Miles, whose depression is self-described as "something [you] wouldn't even know unless I told you," as having been "dealt a bad hand." Nor do I know many people who would react as unsympathetically as Karen seemed to, with that bizarre comment about masculinity. Maybe I live in a bubble. If so, so be it.  I hope you have a change of luck soon and that better days await you.

Thank you, I appreciate it.  I didn't mean to stigmatize Miles, it's just that this show tends to match people with unresolved problems that they should have passed over, and so I'm just not optimistic that Miles is doing that well given their dismal track record.  Karen being matched with Miles IS a "bad hand" if he's not managing his depression so well.  Of course he could be managing it well, but this show has been famous for matching people who are not doing so well, so despite what he says about it being something "you wouldn't know" I'm still skeptical until he proves otherwise. 

[Yeah No]

21 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

I didn't get the impression from Brett that's he's not going to pick up a tab and isn't going to want to do anything.  

I get the impression Brett lives within his means.  He doesn't need to be on the go constantly like Olivia apparently does.

Olivia makes a nice salary, but the way she talks about luxury, I would have thought she's the CEO in health care.  She isn't.  If she wants the high life, maybe she needs to get on Sugardaddy.com instead of going on MAFs.  Not wanting to spend a boatload of dough on expensive wine is not the character flaw she seems to think it is.

I agree with you about Brett, but I didn't get the impression that Olivia wants to live the high life.  Isn't living in New Orleans pretty cheap?  Maybe her salary would be even bigger there than most places.  I don't think she was talking like she wants to live some overly luxurious life.  I just think she has different tastes.  She likes to go out and do things while he's a homebody.  They just have a lifestyle difference, that's all.  He's not better than her because of it.  She didn't mention anything that extravagant that I recall anyway.  YMMV.

[Yeah No]

17 hours ago, KateHearts said:

See, I didn't hear it the same way. To me, she was saying she likes to spend her money on herself, and when he said he preferred to save, she quickly got put off because these are two totally different views on money. But instead of just saying, "I guess I'm more of a spender and you are a saver," she had to add, "I like expensive wine and I eat out a lot." She could have been feeling him out or she could have been saying that those would continue to be a priority for her and how she spends her money- but it came off like a snobby brag. 

I noticed that she was quick to put on a grumpy face if he said something she didn't like. For example when he said he liked cheap wine. She got that stanky face really fast.

Perhaps, but Brett is going out of his way to look like the opposite of someone that appreciates the finer things in life, which I can understand from her perspective would be a turn-off.  Frankly, it would turn me off too if a guy really pushed loving everything that was just the opposite of what I loved in life.  It really looked like he was digging his heels in about being open to being introduced to new things outside his limited comfort zone.  When I met my husband he had never even eaten seafood much less had any finer wine, but he didn't dig his heels in and act defensive when I tried to introduce him to those things and now he LOVES them.  She's just reacting like someone who's afraid that she got matched with someone who is determined to be opposite to everything she appreciates about life.  I can see how she came off as a snobby bragger, but given what she was reacting to I understood it a little better.

[Boo Boo]

8 hours ago, Meowwww said:

I still like Olivia.  I also like nice

things.  Hubby makes wayyyy more than I do, but he likes nice things too.  We don’t live outside our means, and I dont know why many think she does. 

Did Hubby ever make you feel like shit b/c he makes more than you do? Did he talk about how he likes expensive wines, expensive vacations when he found out your salary?

That's where the rub is really for me.  I get that she didn't want someone who made significantly less than her, but hey, if you've ever watched this show and then sign up, you know they aren't going to abide by your wishes. 

For me, it was her comments directly after finding out his income and her talk of all the expensive things she likes and then the eye rolls, turning her head to the side when he was talking about cheap wine and going without.  I'm sure there have been a lot of MAF men that have made a lot more money than their spouse but never made that salary difference a problem. 

She may not live outside her means, but when he talked about living inside his and building wealth, it was her eye rolling looking off to the side that I found shitty.  

I'd rather have a guy who was responsible with the money he makes than someone that blows what he makes.  If they are in a partnership with no kids, seemingly they could do some of the expensive things she likes.  But she already strikes me as what is hers is hers.  "I" "I" "I" and not changing anything but mysteriously wants to be married.

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Boo Boo

[Boo Boo]

37 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I agree with you about Brett, but I didn't get the impression that Olivia wants to live the high life.  Isn't living in New Orleans pretty cheap?  Maybe her salary would be even bigger there than most places.  I don't think she was talking like she wants to live some overly luxurious life.  I just think she has different tastes.  She likes to go out and do things while he's a homebody.  They just have a lifestyle difference, that's all.  He's not better than her because of it.  She didn't mention anything that extravagant that I recall anyway.  YMMV.

Once she found out his salary, it was all about her lifestyle.  She likes expensive wine.  She likes expensive vacations.  She eats out all the time. That might not be the high life, but the implication was:  Oh shit, I got paired with someone who can't afford to do the things I want to do and I sure as shit ain't paying for him.  

And then when he talked about living within his means, the eye rolls and side eyes.  

For me, it was all about how she handled that discussion and then the discussion later about how she isn't giving up anything, changing anything about herself at all when she gets married. Let me preface this by saying, no you should not give up your friends and things you enjoy doing.  But marriage does involve some kind of compromise or don't get married.   

I also feel like she's done a 180 since we first met her and the wedding.  She does not seem like the same person that I liked.  I don't like Brett, but she's starting to make him seem likeable to me!

I'm still of the mindset that Olivia knows he isn't into her so she's detaching and making it seem like it's mutual.

Also, I'm so sorry Yeah No for the shitty hand life has dealt lately.  That's a lot all at once.  Cyber hugs!

. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Boo Boo

[Boo Boo]

On Miles and Karen, I do understand why she could be concerned about his battle with depression.  But it's couching it as not being masculine is what's the disturbing part.  Yes, she does have a right to be concerned -- is his depression under control?  How does his depression affect his day to day?  Has he ever been suicidal?  Is this the overly emotional stuff she was concerned about with his online persona?

It's stigmatizing someone who was very brave to (1) seek help, and (2) be open about it, is what is appalling to me.

 

 

[Booger666]

I have a different take on how Olivia handled the salary discussion with Brett.  I have been the high earning woman with a man who makes less.  I have had friends in a similar situation.  Sadly, it is more of an issue than you would expect in this day and age.   She asked him if he had a problem with it.  When she was talking about the expensive things she enjoyed I took it as her explaining she wasn’t going to be ashamed of spending her money.  I had a boss who made double what her husband made and he would shame her spending.  He was OK with her earning it, but did not like their family and friends to see the purchases because then they would be able to figure out the earning discrepancy.  My husband had a boss who was greatly offended that I made more than my husband and anytime I got a raise (I worked for a large company so the annual merit was in the local news) he would give my husband a raise.  Just as Karen and ChristinA want a “traditional” and “aggressive” manly man type, there are plenty of people who think the a woman should be in a traditional role and earn less.  YMMV.

[Boo Boo]

19 minutes ago, Booger666 said:

I have a different take on how Olivia handled the salary discussion with Brett.  I have been the high earning woman with a man who makes less.  I have had friends in a similar situation.  Sadly, it is more of an issue than you would expect in this day and age.   She asked him if he had a problem with it.  When she was talking about the expensive things she enjoyed I took it as her explaining she wasn’t going to be ashamed of spending her money.  I had a boss who made double what her husband made and he would shame her spending.  He was OK with her earning it, but did not like their family and friends to see the purchases because then they would be able to figure out the earning discrepancy.  My husband had a boss who was greatly offended that I made more than my husband and anytime I got a raise (I worked for a large company so the annual merit was in the local news) he would give my husband a raise.  Just as Karen and ChristinA want a “traditional” and “aggressive” manly man type, there are plenty of people who think the a woman should be in a traditional role and earn less.  YMMV.

That's a good take -- thanks for sharing that!  Yes, there's still a lot of weirdness about a woman making more than a man.  And maybe that's where she was coming from.

 

[Jax7917]

Karen just comes off like a bitch to me . Christina is an obvious one , whereas Karen tries to come off nice , but her true colors shine through easily , as it’s hard for her to hide it . She wrote Miles off before she even met him . Karen wants the muscle bound guy who says all the right things ( like Woody ), but those guys are so often players and not genuine about what they say . I actually find Miles more attractive than Woody , but he doesn’t radiate confidence the way woody does , and I think Karen is looking for that confidence . Some girls seek good guys , and some seek bad boys . Karen seems like the latter . 
 

Olivia seemed cute and sweet at the wedding , but she was a wet blanket this episode . No smiles , high maintenance , just had a snarl on her face the whole time . I don’t blame her for seeing red flags in Brett . The guy is an asshole who always needs to say or do the opposite of what someone else says or does .. but Olivias constant resting bitch face is very off putting . 

[Boo Boo]

3 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Olivia seemed cute and sweet at the wedding , but she was a wet blanket this episode . No smiles , high maintenance , just had a snarl on her face the whole time . I don’t blame her for seeing red flags in Brett . The guy is an asshole who always needs to say or do the opposite of what someone else says or does .. but Olivias constant resting bitch face is very off putting . 

Yeah I think that's what is bugging me about her.  She talks about having fun, but she seems so wet blanket.  Even the monkey bar show of force didn't seem fun.  And it seems like she's always "I, I, I, I."  Plus I don't understand her.  On one hand, all she does is work, come home and sleep but somehow she goes out to dinner all the time, and then hangs out with "Heather and Joe" (who?) "like almost every day."  Who is she really?  I just don't feel like she's being authentic, but the baby doll voice of her makes people think she's such a sweetie pie.  Like she's one of those people that drops "I'm so busy" as though this makes her very important.  

[Empress1]

58 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

Yes, there's still a lot of weirdness about a woman making more than a man. 

My best friend has out-earned her husband for most of their relationship (she was laid off recently so now isn't making anything, and her husband finished school before she did so he was working for a year while she was still a student. Other than that, she’s earned more) and while they have a strong marriage, that’s probably the biggest issue in it. (Part of it is that they’re in the same profession so he expected to make what she did, but shit happens.) I’ve outearned a couple of men I’ve dated and they didn’t like it either. I’ve known more men than not who would prefer to be the breadwinner, and I roll in pretty progressive circles. Olivia isn’t wrong to be cautious there. For me, it’s less about income (above a certain point) and more about having the same attitude about money. Being with someone who didn’t save would stress me out, I couldn’t do it.

[Retired at last]

I think we maybe saw more of how Olivia reacts when she doesn't get her way. Sometimes, being single and not having long relationships just makes you more independent and less flexible than you want to admit.

And,  as for ChristinA, who is basing all relationships and marriages on what she sees on TV, she is appearing as a total bitch. Every time she exclaims that she has NEVER had to be the aggressor before and that all the men tell her how gorgeous she is (she isn't, at all), it is obvious what they want, since apparently, none of all those men have bothered to send her flowers! I think you can tell a lot about people based on how they treat others, such as wait servers, and she clearly makes Henry uncomfortable with how impatient and critical she is.

[Boo Boo]

8 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

I think we maybe saw more of how Olivia reacts when she doesn't get her way. Sometimes, being single and not having long relationships just makes you more independent and less flexible than you want to admit.

And,  as for ChristinA, who is basing all relationships and marriages on what she sees on TV, she is appearing as a total bitch. Every time she exclaims that she has NEVER had to be the aggressor before and that all the men tell her how gorgeous she is (she isn't, at all), it is obvious what they want, since apparently, none of all those men have bothered to send her flowers! I think you can tell a lot about people based on how they treat others, such as wait servers, and she clearly makes Henry uncomfortable with how impatient and critical she is.

Yes, indeed on Olivia.

And I guffawed at ChristinA's preview of men telling her she's gorgeous. Babushka, what?!  Maybe the guys who booty call her?

[cinsays]

14 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Jamie’s under the impression the longer and stringier the extensions the hotter you are. She’ll be hanging onto that long hair thinking it makes her younger forever. Girl, ya, basic! 

What I can't understand is why someone, anyone!, doesn't tell her how ridiculous it looks, too long and way too thick. 

Just dial it back and have a nice do down to your shoulders or whatever and, maybe try something besides that same blue dress. 

But, better would be her just gone, though she seems to have a firm toe hold on that position for some reason. 

[cinsays]

3 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

Did Hubby ever make you feel like shit b/c he makes more than you do? Did he talk about how he likes expensive wines, expensive vacations when he found out your salary?

That's where the rub is really for me.  I get that she didn't want someone who made significantly less than her, but hey, if you've ever watched this show and then sign up, you know they aren't going to abide by your wishes. 

For me, it was her comments directly after finding out his income and her talk of all the expensive things she likes and then the eye rolls, turning her head to the side when he was talking about cheap wine and going without.  I'm sure there have been a lot of MAF men that have made a lot more money than their spouse but never made that salary difference a problem. 

She may not live outside her means, but when he talked about living inside his and building wealth, it was her eye rolling looking off to the side that I found shitty.  

I'd rather have a guy who was responsible with the money he makes than someone that blows what he makes.  If they are in a partnership with no kids, seemingly they could do some of the expensive things she likes.  But she already strikes me as what is hers is hers.  "I" "I" "I" and not changing anything but mysteriously wants to be married.

 

As usual, I completely agree with you. They just don't match and she's being pretty dismissive of his viewpoint. And, doesn't he want kids and she is not too sure about it?

 

[Neurochick]

15 hours ago, greeneyedscorpio said:

I don't see what's wrong with a woman (or a man) thinking quite highly of themselves.  It's called a healthy self-esteem and I really believe the world would be a much better place of more people had one.  

Completely agree with this.  

 

15 hours ago, spunky said:

I truly like Karen because I can identify with her in some ways. She seems like the type who is reserved when she first meets someone and eventually warms up once she gets to know them. She’s guarded because all she’s ever dated were scrubs and finds Miles too good to be true. I will side eye her for her “masculine” comment. Miles isn’t less of a man because he has Clinical Depression, in fact he’s more of a man for being able to openly discuss his mental health. It’s time that we in the black community stop stigmatizing mental health or minimizing men showing their emotions.

I think Karen needs to ask herself, "WHY does she keep dating scrubs?"  It's not fair for her to bring all her suitcases into new relationships.  Maybe she thinks scrubs are all she deserves.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Neurochick

[Jax7917]

How you handle money is a very important part of marriage in order to make it work . Both my husband and I are on the same page when it comes to money and we’ve never had an argument about it ( we do about other things obviously  , just not that .) We both are not into material things and wasting money on expensive clothes , accessories , etc .. but would rather put money into vacations and experiences / nights out . But everyone is different . I don’t think Olivia or Brett  is wrong for how they spend money, but the fact that they’re on very different pages about it is not gonna work . 

[bichonblitz]

I don't get why people are saying that Brett is a homebody. Maybe he doesn't enjoy the same things as Olivia but that doesn't mean he doesn't have interests of his own. 

He has a full time job, enjoys working out regularly and apparently before the marriage he dated A LOT. Dating takes time and money. He probably has a few buddies he likes to hang with and have a few beers, too. How does that qualify him as a "homebody"? 

[Boo Boo]

7 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I don't get why people are saying that Brett is a homebody. Maybe he doesn't enjoy the same things as Olivia but that doesn't mean he doesn't have interests of his own. 

He has a full time job, enjoys working out regularly and apparently before the marriage he dated A LOT. Dating takes time and money. He probably has a few buddies he likes to hang with and have a few beers, too. How does that qualify him as a "homebody"? 

Hell, didn't he say he volunteers at the animal shelter?  

16 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

How you handle money is a very important part of marriage in order to make it work . Both my husband and I are on the same page when it comes to money and we’ve never had an argument about it ( we do about other things obviously  , just not that .) We both are not into material things and wasting money on expensive clothes , accessories , etc .. but would rather put money into vacations and experiences / nights out . But everyone is different . I don’t think Olivia or Brett  is wrong for how they spend money, but the fact that they’re on very different pages about it is not gonna work . 

No question. My late husband and I were both simpatico with how we spent, how we saved.  If they are truly that different in how they approach money, they should never combine bank accounts if they were to stay married.  

[spunky]

39 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Completely agree with this.  

 

I think Karen needs to ask herself, "WHY does she keep dating scrubs?"  It's not fair for her to bring all her suitcases into a new relationships.  Maybe she thinks scrubs are all she deserves.

I agree, she needs to question why she's attracted to scrubs. It could be that she doesn't think she deserves more or that she can mold them into the type of man she wants. I used to be like Karen in a way.  I used to date scrubs because I saw "potential" in them. Hopefully she realizes that she has a good man in front of her and holds on to him.

[JapMo]

Brett seemed to have an OK attitude about Olivia making so much more than him, so unless she isn't willing in their marriage to allow him a say-so in their mutual finances and she can't get past the fact she's contributing so much more, then it will be a major roadblock in their marriage.  They can compromise on how many times they go out to eat, and they can agree that occasionally they can splurge on a really good meal and expensive wine, but if she feels she should have more say in where their money is spent because she makes the lion's share of it, a guy like Brett is not going to roll over and play dead.  

I don't think Olivia was as bad as a lot of posters thought this last episode.  I think some of her eyerolls weren't done derogatorily against him but were more kind of laughing and playing along with him.  The problem I have with Olivia is she's too clinical.  She has said several times she thinks Brett's cute, but she's not putting out any feminine vibes towards him (from what I see).  Okay, before you start screaming about that statement, I see them holding hands, but I don't remember seeing them kiss except when they said 'I Do'.  I don't see them embrace.  They both say there's chemistry....but I'm not seeing any demonstrations of it.  All I hear is Olivia going over and over about communication and taking things slowly blah blah blah.  When Brett apologized for giving her the cold shoulder and she in turn said she was sorry for hurting his feelings on her rating of their marriage, it would have been nice to see them maybe hug.  Some sweet moment.  And yeah, you can say all day 'what about Brett?  He could have just as easily initiated it, too", but let's face it....men are clods.  We love them but they are.  This was simply a huggable moment.  A man would hug...see the bed 2 feet away...and immediately think sex.    

[seacliffsal]

When Amelia spoke about how wonderful her childhood was, she used the example of asking her father if she could go over to a friend's house and he basically responded 'I don't care' I thought that might have been the genesis of her quirkiness.  It's as if she is 'quirky' as a way to get attention.  An ideal childhood in which one's parents don't care what one does?  More likely she really wanted parental attention and developed a personal that guarantees attention as an adult.

Anyone who has ever watched this show would know to respond with "10" whenever asked to rate their marriage, spouse, spouse's income, etc...  We all learned that via Dave and Amber.  I guess a rating of "9" also works (with the explanation that there is still so much to learn...).  

And, I am totally amazed that I am now on "Team Brett."  How did that happen?  I guess it's because Olivia shows that she wants things her way when she wants them.  If it's clear the other person doesn't want to talk about something at that moment, give them some time.  But, she kept pushing at him and when he did answer she basically told him he was wrong.  No, just no.  I also agree with numerous posters that her indication that she wasn't going to change anything about her schedule and social activities, it indicated that she wasn't willing to blend her life with Brett or compromise any of her preferred activities in order to accommodate Brett.

I love Amani.  I like her humor and how she interacts with others.

I'm still mixed on Christina and Henry.  I believe that the couples have specific producers that work with them.  I would probably also be frustrated if the producer assigned to me kept getting my name wrong and kept referring to me with the name of a very questionable close friend of my new spouse for whom he may be carrying a torch.  I also saw Henry's temper during the paddle board excursion and his inability to steer the paddle board.  Yes, once he got the hang of it he started having a good time, but there was some temper first.  I think they both have issues (as do we all...) but I also think they are a huge mismatch and for whatever reason the producers put them together, it's not enough to justify this match.  

[KateHearts]

15 hours ago, LaLaLaLa said:

Beauty is definitely subjective. I view Olivia (in the limited, edited portion of her life that I see) as someone who does not prioritize her appearance because she'd rather prioritize other components of her life like her career, talking to family/friends, no children, and fine dining, which is typically not healthy. These are all worthwhile pursuits but they do not mesh with Brett's priorities (e.g., healthy diet and lifestyle, working out, planning for the future including creating a family). Brett is fit and he cares about his appearance/body because that's one of his priorities.

I'm not sure I get this point.  I see no negatives to being dedicated to one's career in their early 30s, prioritizing relationships with family and friends, making the decision not to have children, or enjoying good wine/food. Everyone has their priorities, and unless they prioritize illicit drugs or a life of crime, I'm not seeing the unhealthiness here.  The second part of your statement may be what you are indicating: that she has listed a bunch of priorities that applied prior to her marriage, but that she needs to amend them to include her husband now that she is a married woman.

As for the working out aspect, she stated that she does work out and is athletic (view the monkey bar competition). I don't consider fine dining to be antithetical to a healthy diet or lifestyle. I work out and eat very healthfully, but I definitely enjoy a good restaurant meal (and not necessarily an "unhealthy" one ) as well.

As for the children aspect, that should match and I lay blame for that big difference squarely on the "experts."

[Boo Boo]

23 minutes ago, JapMo said:

Brett seemed to have an OK attitude about Olivia making so much more than him, so unless she isn't willing in their marriage to allow him a say-so in their mutual finances and she can't get past the fact she's contributing so much more, then it will be a major roadblock in their marriage.  They can compromise on how many times they go out to eat, and they can agree that occasionally they can splurge on a really good meal and expensive wine, but if she feels she should have more say in where their money is spent because she makes the lion's share of it, a guy like Brett is not going to roll over and play dead.  

I don't think Olivia was as bad as a lot of posters thought this last episode.  I think some of her eyerolls weren't done derogatorily against him but were more kind of laughing and playing along with him.  The problem I have with Olivia is she's too clinical.  She has said several times she thinks Brett's cute, but she's not putting out any feminine vibes towards him (from what I see).  Okay, before you start screaming about that statement, I see them holding hands, but I don't remember seeing them kiss except when they said 'I Do'.  I don't see them embrace.  They both say there's chemistry....but I'm not seeing any demonstrations of it.  All I hear is Olivia going over and over about communication and taking things slowly blah blah blah.  When Brett apologized for giving her the cold shoulder and she in turn said she was sorry for hurting his feelings on her rating of their marriage, it would have been nice to see them maybe hug.  Some sweet moment.  And yeah, you can say all day 'what about Brett?  He could have just as easily initiated it, too", but let's face it....men are clods.  We love them but they are.  This was simply a huggable moment.  A man would hug...see the bed 2 feet away...and immediately think sex.    

I think Brett said all the right words to make it sound like the disparity didn't bother him.  And it might not have bothered him at first. I think what did bother him was how she started talking about love of expensive things.  You could see his posture change.  And then you could see her exacerbation with his comments on cheap wine, going without, we'll cook, I want to build a foundation... anyway, beating a dead horse lol

On chemistry, I don't see it at all. I'm waiting to see a fun side of Olivia.  Brett thinks he's funny but often he just isn't.  They are not a match.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Boo Boo

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 8/19/2020 at 11:13 PM, DrewPaul2010 said:

I saw some signs of like in Henry this week. He seems like a very temperate man not given to highs or lows. I suspect he will be a great father.

I just read an article about parenting around the world, and there are some people in Kenya, I believe, who don't look their babies in the eye.  He'd win father of the year there.

 

On 8/20/2020 at 4:49 AM, Yeah No said:

I definitely think the producers put her up to bringing that up, precisely because they want to stir up trouble. Given what we saw in this episode I am starting to think that all the constant, incessant questions and "bomb drops" in the past few seasons (or more) have been fed to them by production. 

I've always suspected "suggestions" about conversation topics, but now I've seen the producer propose a question and the participant repeat it pretty much verbatim.  Ugh.

 

On 8/19/2020 at 7:29 PM, ShowFan said:

“It’s a massive turn on that you’re loaded!” Omg I’m dying!

Me too!  I think Brett has a quick wit, and I love a quick wit.  I'm trying to believe that he was just drunk at the bachelor party, and it affected his behavior.  We shall see.

 

On 8/19/2020 at 7:29 PM, ShowFan said:

Amani is truly a queen! I loved how she stabbed Brett with “don’t wink at me, it’s not cute!” She is the kind of woman that every man should aspire to have by his side. Beautiful, strong, honest and loyal  

I've seen her be direct like that on several occasions, and I find it very appealing.

 

22 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I freaking loved Amelia's song! Maybe the show should hire her to do the music - the stuff they use now is so terrible!

I loved it, too, and I have an aversion to guitar-strumming songs.

Speaking of the music on the show, you know the intro thing, where they show this little drawing of a couple, accompanied by a few notes?  Are y'all aware that those are lyrics?  My captions say, "It's all or nothing."  And if I listen real hard, I can kind of almost get that.  But without the captions it never would have occurred to me that it was anything other than noise.

 

21 hours ago, lizajane said:

Amelia and Bennett are coming across as two 10 year old besties, having a sleepover in a fort. I just can't with all the quirkiness, and I don't remember seeing any signs of physical affection between them.

I don't think they're being particularly physical, but sometimes that comes later.  There are plenty of people who were friends, even pretty good friends, before getting romantic.  At least with Amelia and Bennett, it's to be expected.  It can be a pretty awkward hurdle in regular life.

 

18 hours ago, Adeejay said:

I couldn’t for the life of me figure out why they paired Olivia and Brett. I am starting to believe it’s for the disparity between their salaries and lifestyles. There is bound to be drama.  Funny how none of the other couples had the salary discussion.

They probably had drama-free salary-free discussions.  Hence their absence from the screen.

 

18 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

I still like Amani and Woody, with caution, but she probably shouldn’t have slept with him so soon.

I'm a little troubled.  She'd said she wants to take it slow on the sex front, but he had a full-court press.  Laying out the rose petals made me uneasy.  It would be one thing if they were already having sex and it was a special-occasion or one-off romantic thing, but this looked like a ploy.  She probably wasn't helping things, with taking showers together apparently constantly. 

If he'd verbally pressured her for sex, that would be considered bad, and possibly harassment.  I see the rose petals as just a different form of persuasion.  Really, now that I think about it, not that different from getting liquored up, actually.  I just hope it's what she really wanted to do, in her own head.

 

14 hours ago, greeneyedscorpio said:

I don't see what's wrong with a woman (or a man) thinking quite highly of themselves.  It's called a healthy self-esteem and I really believe the world would be a much better place of more people had one.  

Can't say I agree.  There are way too many people who have more self-esteem than I think they should.

 

14 hours ago, spunky said:

Lastly why are they rating their marriages?  Someone always gets offended because of their spouse’s rating.

Q:  Why are they rating their marriages?

A:  Someone always gets offended because of their spouse's rating.

[JapMo]

7 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

14 hours ago, spunky said:

Lastly why are they rating their marriages?  Someone always gets offended because of their spouse’s rating.

Q:  Why are they rating their marriages?

A:  Someone always gets offended because of their spouse's rating.

Oh ho.....that's good.

[Ilovepie]

12 hours ago, Meowwww said:

Also, I have been on antidepressants forever.  They saved my life.  I am not weird or a red flag, I can’t help my brain chemistry.  It seems like a personal attack, those of you saying you wouldn’t be with someone on meds.  Those of us on meds, we don’t talk about it....guaranteed your friends and neighbors might be on them.  Doesn’t make us lesser people and worthy of being passed by.  
Sorry, but mental health is near and dear to my heart.  We aren’t out there murdering people or being awful....the comments here just make me sad.  If you haven’t lived it, don’t judge it.  I’m disappointed.  

Thank you for this. Some of the comments here make me so sad - it shows that there is still a stigma to people with mental health issues. I get that these participants didn't choose their partners and so had no say in whether they want to deal with someone (like the diabetes with Katie last season) with health issues, but this is something that can be controlled. And I would rather be with a nice guy that is dealing with depression than a total asshole such as a Matt, Luke or Zach. Now there is something that has no treatment........

[ezzy4]

I just can't with Henry.

It seems he has almost ZERO to say to ChristinA.   No eye contact. Ug.  Even in the group setting, he talks without saying anything.  It's telling that a scene with Henry requires the breaking of the 4th wall because unless production weighs in who the hell would ChristinA converse with? 

And then...when he FINALLY claims to have something to say...still no eye contact...ChristinA leaning forward, hopeful, willing to engage ... he sputters some convoluted negative concern about her behavior...how she needed to try harder.  That's just the worst.  He's just the worse.

And then he rates the marriage a 7.  Yep, he seems content.  Nothing will change with him.  

I will admit ChristinA kind of rubs me the wrong way.  But it's really hard for me to judge her harshly.  I wonder how much of her behavior is influenced by frustration with her situation.  

 

[Boo Boo]

To clarify, there's a difference in my view of having confidence and self-esteem versus being full of themselves. 

I think confidence is sexy.  I just get the feeling that Olivia thinks she's the smartest person in the room, the busiest person in the room. 

I've yet to see a real sense of humor about herself either.  

I think Amani has healthy self-esteem.  Amelia has healthy self-esteem.  These are two confident women who do well in life.  They have a sense of humor about them.  And their partner.

To me, there's a big difference between being conceited and being confident with healthy self-esteem.

  

[JapMo]

19 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

I think Brett said all the right words to make it sound like the disparity didn't bother him.  And it might not have bothered him at first. I think what did bother him was how she started talking about love of expensive things.  You could see his posture change.  And then you could see her exacerbation with his comments on cheap wine, going without, we'll cook, I want to build a foundation... anyway, beating a dead horse lol

On chemistry, I don't see it at all. I'm waiting to see a fun side of Olivia.  Brett thinks he's funny but often he just isn't.  They are not a match.

I remember that part.  Olivia really looked hot under the collar, but she somehow she refrained from saying it outloud.  That evening Brett would not open up to her why he was pissed, but she knew he was.  Maybe they made a pact not to argue in front of the cameras, because as we all know, if there was a hint of conflict, the show would be all over it.  If they did talk to over and agree not to disagree when filming, I applaud them.  

They are definitely not a match if Olivia was lying about maybe, possibly, sometime in a galaxy far far away having kids.  And I think she was.  She doesn't want them at all.  So game, set, match.  Marriage over.

[Neurochick]

3 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

To clarify, there's a difference in my view of having confidence and self-esteem versus being full of themselves. 

I think confidence is sexy.  I just get the feeling that Olivia thinks she's the smartest person in the room, the busiest person in the room

I'm confused, or maybe dense.  Is thinking highly of oneself being full of themselves?  

Maybe if Karen had been full of herself more, she wouldn't have dated a scrub who had a baby with another woman while he was with her.

[Boo Boo]

1 minute ago, JapMo said:

I remember that part.  Olivia really looked hot under the collar, but she somehow she refrained from saying it outloud.  That evening Brett would not open up to her why he was pissed, but she knew he was.  Maybe they made a pact not to argue in front of the cameras, because as we all know, if there was a hint of conflict, the show would be all over it.  If they did talk to over and agree not to disagree when filming, I applaud them.  

They are definitely not a match if Olivia was lying about maybe, possibly, sometime in a galaxy far far away having kids.  And I think she was.  She doesn't want them at all.  So game, set, match.  Marriage over.

It's possible she doesn't know yet if she wants kids.  But if she really doesn't and she's leaving wiggle room it isn't fair to either one of them to be in this relationship.

Of course, this could be another one of those "I hate dogs" and then the expert sets them up with someone who has dogs.

[Boo Boo]

7 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I'm confused, or maybe dense.  Is thinking highly of oneself being full of themselves?  

Maybe if Karen had been full of herself more, she wouldn't have dated a scrub who had a baby with another woman while he was with her.

Try exaggerated sense of self-worth. Self-centered.  

Have you never run across anyone where you felt they need to take their love of themselves down a notch as they look down on others?

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Boo Boo

[KateHearts]

I am surprised after all of the objections to the numerous tooth-brushing scenes, that no one commented on Olivia Q-tipping her ears. Yuccck!

I really did enjoy Brett's jokes and humor this episode, and if I hadn't seen his douchiness at the bachelor party, I would really find myself liking him. He was really passive-aggressive when Olivia was trying to draw him out after her "7" rating, but considering he said he found the entire rating system stupid, it's odd that he placed so much value on it.  Points to him for explaining his standoffishness the next morning. I get that when you're already upset or hurt, someone grilling you often is the last thing you want. She was relentless.  If she wanted to open the conversation about what they might explore together, why not just say something in that vein like, "I'm excited to cook you dinner in our apartment! [oops, she's not into cooking though]; or "won't it be fun to see what each other's daily lives are like?" rather than the "TELL ME WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO AS A COUPLE!!"

Christina is yet another contestant that seemed oblivious when she signed up for this thing that it was going to be filmed. Which involves cameras and production personnel hanging around for a good part of the day. If she wasn't cool about it, she shouldn't have signed up. I really can't imagine knowing I'm on a TV show and then getting bitchy like she did before walking down the aisle, or making comments like "guys are usually telling me I'm beautiful!"  She's embarrassing herself. And if she wants Henry to "make a move," (does she mean come in for a kiss?) there's no reason she can't make the first move and see where it goes. I think I'm understanding why she hasn't gotten many bouquets in her life.

I feel like every show about dating or marriage involves rose petals scattered over hotel beds (watch Love after Lockup). All I think of is, "those are going to stain that pretty white bedspread"- although I assume most of them are fake. But it's as if the producers all have a kit full of the same stuff- champagne bottles, rose petals, fluffy robes- it's getting monotonous.

[JapMo]

3 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

It's possible she doesn't know yet if she wants kids.  But if she really doesn't and she's leaving wiggle room it isn't fair to either one of them to be in this relationship.

Of course, this could be another one of those "I hate dogs" and then the expert sets them up with someone who has dogs.

Uhhhh.....sorry, I just can't believe a 30 year old woman doesn't know if she wants kids.  I'll give you ambivalent.  No, that biological clock keeps    a-tickin and if we females pretend we don't notice it, every women's magazine will make sure we remember but not just that....there's the ultimate Big Ben chiming it out over and over....our parents!!! 

[Boo Boo]

1 minute ago, KateHearts said:

I am surprised after all of the objections to the numerous tooth-brushing scenes, that no one commented on Olivia Q-tipping her ears. Yuccck!

I really did enjoy Brett's jokes and humor this episode, and if I hadn't seen his douchiness at the bachelor party, I would really find myself liking him. He was really passive-aggressive when Olivia was trying to draw him out after her "7" rating, but considering he said he found the entire rating system stupid, it's odd that he placed so much value on it.  Points to him for explaining his standoffishness the next morning. I get that when you're already upset or hurt, someone grilling you often is the last thing you want. She was relentless.  If she wanted to open the conversation about what they might explore together, why not just say something in that vein like, "I'm excited to cook you dinner in our apartment! [oops, she's not into cooking though]; or "won't it be fun to see what each other's daily lives are like?" rather than the "TELL ME WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO AS A COUPLE!!"

.

And what she forgets is she basically she's so busy but somehow has time for Heather and Joe, "almost every day."  

Just now, JapMo said:

Uhhhh.....sorry, I just can't believe a 30 year old woman doesn't know if she wants kids.  I'll give you ambivalent.  No, that biological clock keeps    a-tickin and if we females pretend we don't notice it, every women's magazine will make sure we remember but not just that....there's the ultimate Big Ben chiming it out over and over....our parents!!! 

Ha, yeah, you're probably right.  It's usually just "not now" vs. not being sure.

[ezzy4]

22 hours ago, StarryNight said:

Henry is a nice guy, but I really, REALLY think he is on the Autism Spectrum. Someone very close to me is on the spectrum (Aspergers) and he wasn't diagnosed until he was 50, which is not unusual at all. Henry is JUST like him. JUST like him. It's not a bad thing, and it doesn't make him a bad guy. But it does make building a relationship difficult, especially in a situation like this which is pretty much the epitome of rushing into it. 

I don't disagree with you that it's a possibility he could be "on the spectrum", but what makes you think he's a "nice guy"?  He doesn't contribute enough to ANY interaction for me to form a good opinion about him.  

But he did sign up for a show where people can be pretty hurt by his lack of emotion/connection so he has an obligation to engage better than he's doing.  If he simply can't do the minimum emotional work... perhaps he really can't because he isn't "wired" that way...then he signed up in "bad faith". 

I just don't get the "he's a good guy" talk about him.

[JapMo]

4 minutes ago, ezzy4 said:

I don't disagree with you that it's a possibility he could be "on the spectrum", but what makes you think he's a "nice guy"?  He doesn't contribute enough to ANY interaction for me to form a good opinion about him.  

But he did sign up for a show where people can be pretty hurt by his lack of emotion/connection so he has an obligation to engage better than he's doing.  If he simply can't do the minimum emotional work... perhaps he really can't because he isn't "wired" that way...then he signed up in "bad faith". 

I just don't get the "he's a good guy" talk about him.

I've not had a high opinion of Henry since the wedding and he sat with his face in his plate shoveling food in while his new bride had to fend off his drunken friends Christine and that reality show chick.  

[LaLaLaLa]

56 minutes ago, KateHearts said:

I'm not sure I get this point.  I see no negatives to being dedicated to one's career in their early 30s, prioritizing relationships with family and friends, making the decision not to have children, or enjoying good wine/food. Everyone has their priorities, and unless they prioritize illicit drugs or a life of crime, I'm not seeing the unhealthiness here.  The second part of your statement may be what you are indicating: that she has listed a bunch of priorities that applied prior to her marriage, but that she needs to amend them to include her husband now that she is a married woman.

As for the working out aspect, she stated that she does work out and is athletic (view the monkey bar competition). I don't consider fine dining to be antithetical to a healthy diet or lifestyle. I work out and eat very healthfully, but I definitely enjoy a good restaurant meal (and not necessarily an "unhealthy" one ) as well.

As for the children aspect, that should match and I lay blame for that big difference squarely on the "experts."

Huh???

Where did I say that dedicating oneself to a career is a negative (or fine dining, or constantly talking to family/friends, etc.)? In fact, I said the opposite. I said a career (along with the other items I listed) is worthwhile pursuit, but I also said these may not mesh with Brett's priorities. What's wrong with that?

Olivia may be "athletic" in her mind but her body (from what we've seen) doesn't support that statement. She may have said she "works out" on the wedding night but, based on her follow-up conversations, she barely has time for her husband in her busy schedule (and that didn't include working out).

[JapMo]

28 minutes ago, ezzy4 said:

I just can't with Henry.

It seems he has almost ZERO to say to ChristinA.   No eye contact. Ug.  Even in the group setting, he talks without saying anything.  It's telling that a scene with Henry requires the breaking of the 4th wall because unless production weighs in who the hell would ChristinA converse with? 

And then...when he FINALLY claims to have something to say...still no eye contact...ChristinA leaning forward, hopeful, willing to engage ... he sputters some convoluted negative concern about her behavior...how she needed to try harder.  That's just the worst.  He's just the worse.

And then he rates the marriage a 7.  Yep, he seems content.  Nothing will change with him.  

I will admit ChristinA kind of rubs me the wrong way.  But it's really hard for me to judge her harshly.  I wonder how much of her behavior is influenced by frustration with her situation.  

I agree with every word.  And your last sentence.....the word frustration.....that's exactly why I can't dislike Christina.  She is so frustrated at this point and remember...she doesn't know everything that we do.  We got the preview of Henry and his gal pal Christine two weeks before the wedding.  We already knew he was weird going into the ceremony.  Christina has been stumbling around trying to figure out what the hell is going on with him and she's at the point now where she's pulling out the worst thing we women do to ourselves...she's questioning her physical appearance.  Does he think I'm pretty?  Yech.  But yet I can't blame her.  She gets NOTHING from this guy.  If I were her I would have smacked him with a 2x4 when he rated the marriage a 7.  Shame on the experts (not the show because they are loving this).  Rev Cal, Dr Pepper...shame shame shame.  You put a somewhat extroverted woman with a closed off, seriously shy, introverted man and expected what?  That she would draw him out and their imbalances would automatically meet in the middle by the end of 8 weeks?  These people trusted that you had their best interest at heart and would try to find them a good match, because after all, as you Dr Pepper say every stinkin week....this is a legally binding marriage.  

[humbleopinion]

15 hours ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

How about bring the virgin back on and see if we can fix that : )

Iris' total identity is wrapped up in being a virgin and is not going to give it up easily...

Double entendre absolutely intended.