Tough As Nails - General Discussion

[candall]

I really enjoy this show, and I have no idea how they could fix it so the people with less brute strength (aka the women) aren't systematically gutted. 

 

The team challenges are shaking out evenly, and tonight's final competition between the two women with roughly equivalent strength was very exciting, but that individual challenge is going to pick off the women one-by-one.

Hanger had his dyslexia handicap last week and there might be other situations where a man will have a personal impediment, but I bet there will never be two men in the "time out" challenge until the women have been culled.

I was thinking about this while I watched Mike zooming out to his rescue dummy like he had an outboard motor attached to his feet.  Sigh.

#####

That big buoy chain challenge was so creative!

#####

Seeing her father's copter blow into the electric wire and crash--made me cry.

.

[TeapotWakeen]

5 hours ago, candall said:

I really enjoy this show, and I have no idea how they could fix it so the people with less brute strength (aka the women) aren't systematically gutted. 

there was a plumbing challenge last season that relied as much -- if not more -- on attention to detail. That seemed like a pretty good "even"er in the task. I join others in thinking that quality should be a factor in at least some of the challenges, as sometimes just brute strength results in crap work. That snow fence challenge where the one guy busted through the boards a la football drills? Yuck. requiring the boards to be re-usable/undamaged? something like that adds in problem-solving skills or finesse....

[SuburbanHangSuite]

8 hours ago, candall said:

The team challenges are shaking out evenly, and tonight's final competition between the two women with roughly equivalent strength was very exciting, but that individual challenge is going to pick off the women one-by-one.

#####

Seeing her father's copter blow into the electric wire and crash--made me cry.

.

This is probably my new favorite show since Survivor has gone off the rails with unlikeable castaways and too many random advantages.  Every season, TAN just seems to have really good people performing some crazy-hard tasks.

I love the way the women really are kicking ass.  The Iron-Worker?  She made ALL the difference in the team challenge.  And the men respect these women too.  Nice.

I thought Lia was going to annoy me with her constant "Jill-of-All-Trades" chatter but then she won me over when she talked about how it didn't feel good to win at the expense of Sarah losing.  Sniff, sniff.

And Sarah put me through it tonight!  Overcoming her fear of water, finishing just SECONDS behind Lia.  i was a wreck after this episode.

[sharkerbaby]

I love this show too.  The best part for me is that it exalts the salt of the earth type folks.  Those that value hard work and perseverance and do what they do for the good of their families all with pure grit and dedication.  I appreciate and love that Phil created this show to honor his family and their blue collar roots with the goal of spotlighting the importance of their contributions and elevating the blue collar workers' standing in society.

As far as quality assurance, I think they are kind of trying to acknowledge this aspect this year.  For the first time, we have seen people who actually do the jobs on site and acting as a type of supervisor and "approving" certain aspects before they can move on to the next task and/or complete the job.

The physical strength advantage as it pertains to the challenges and the success of the women contestants... That's a really tough nut to crack considering the nature of the type of work this show tries to emulate.  I will point out though there was a woman finalist last season, albeit she was pretty far behind in the actual show down but she did make the finals.  There is a reason the trades and other "dirty" professions are dominated by men and it's not because women are "prissy" or "fragile" or any of the other silly notions that may be spouted but there is no denying that typically (emphasis on typically) men have more brute strength than women and that lends itself nicely to these types of jobs.

[candall]

Kelsey:  "I fly helicopters.  I'm sure I can figure out how to operate this crane."  True.  And then I will perform this task faster than someone who already knows exactly what she's doing.  False. 

Well, bye, Kelsey.  You were spunky.

 

[Grizzly]

On 11/4/2021 at 7:01 PM, candall said:

Kelsey:  "I fly helicopters.  I'm sure I can figure out how to operate this crane."  True.  And then I will perform this task faster than someone who already knows exactly what she's doing.  False. 

 

The funny thing is, it wasn't the crane that cost Kelsey the challenge, it was the light cover. 

[SVNBob]

4 hours ago, Grizzly said:

The funny thing is, it wasn't the crane that cost Kelsey the challenge, it was the light cover. 

It was a little of both, combined with her physical stature.

Look in long shots at Christine and Kelsey.  Christine is about half-a-head taller.  That means she's got longer limbs.   Which means that she could stop the crane sooner because she could reach the light cover from a little further away.  Meanwhile, Kelsey had to move in somewhat closer to reach due to being shorter.  Not too much further, but still, that cost her some time.

Kelsey's smaller stature also made it harder for her to even reach some of the clips on the light cover.  Again, Christine's height became an advantage on that part of the task.

[Fretful]

And... another all-femaie overtime and another woman out.  I'm not sure why the men did so much better, at the tire task,  but all the men finished ahead of all the women except Lia (who was the first to find her tires, but had to carry them 2 at a time). 

They really need to rethink this show.

[mlp]

21 hours ago, Fretful said:

They really need to rethink this show.

The only way to equalize things IMO would be to have one show with all women and one with all men.  As I've said before, some women are stronger than some men but, overall, men are stronger and better suited to the highly physical tasks this show features.  If they were to make the tasks a bit easier so the women had a better chance, the tasks would be easier for the men at the same time and the end results (and complaints) would be the same.

[Fretful]

On 11/7/2021 at 2:36 PM, mlp said:

The only way to equalize things IMO would be to have one show with all women and one with all men.  As I've said before, some women are stronger than some men but, overall, men are stronger and better suited to the highly physical tasks this show features.  If they were to make the tasks a bit easier so the women had a better chance, the tasks would be easier for the men at the same time and the end results (and complaints) would be the same.

To me, it's a question of re-thinking the challenges themselves. Stamina-based or organization/logic based tasks would even things out.  Being 'Tough" and having brute strength are two different things.

 

[DEL901]

8 hours ago, Fretful said:

To me, it's a question of re-thinking the challenges themselves. Stamina-based or organization/logic based tasks would even things out.  Being 'Tough" and having brute strength are two different things.

 

And they need to incorporate the quality aspect as well.  

[DEL901]

Good on Lia for sharing her prize.  

[zoey1996]

Neither of tonight’s individual challenges (cilantro and harrowing) involved brute strength or brawn. Lia won cilantro, Quincy won harrowing, but either challenge could have gone either way. Harrowing was especially attention to detail and quality control.  
Observation: if you know you have a past injury that could recur, is competing in this really a good idea? I guess it’s a risk/reward calculation at some point.

I was imagining the scent of cilantro, which I love, during that challenge. I’m lucky that cilantro tastes as good as it smells to me. I know people that can’t tolerate the taste. Does it smell bad/soapy to them too?

[Grizzly]

Mike should wear his hair down more often. He is such a good looking guy. Only problem is, he is the type that wins this show and it would be nice to see that streak broken.

Can't believe Elizabeth kept going after having back spasms. I'm not a doctor, could she have done more damage by continuing?

[mertensia]

Loved Quincy just leaning back and going.

Yeah, Elizabeth probably should have punched out, I think. 

[theschnauzers]

I get those kinds of spasms in my upper back due to a huge scar mass and although excruciatingly painful at that moment, it passes and I just continue on.

[Lamb18]

9 hours ago, Grizzly said:

Mike should wear his hair down more often. He is such a good looking guy. Only problem is, he is the type that wins this show and it would be nice to see that streak broken.

Can't believe Elizabeth kept going after having back spasms. I'm not a doctor, could she have done more damage by continuing?

Actually it can help to keep on moving so you don't freeze up.

[TeapotWakeen]

I liked all of the challenges this week -- smart moves and ability to adjust on the fly made the difference. The irrigation challenge really wasn't about brute strength, and some of the men struggled more than some of the women because of sinking so deeply into the mud.

12 hours ago, zoey1996 said:

I know people that can’t tolerate the taste. Does it smell bad/soapy to them too?

I thought the same thing! I like cilantro, but have occasionally had it taste soapy (maybe as it ages?) so I wondered if there were cilantro haters in there too! I also really appreciated Lia sharing the produce reward, that was a class act, and I hope producers honor it. Good episode! A big laugh when Phil was in the mud at the irrigation challenge and deadpanned "And I'm stuck in the mud too....." I love Phil. And naturally I'm thinking of pairs from Tough as Nails I want to see on Amazing Race (Drywall Danny and Freight Train anyone? 😁 also, the woman military pilot from season 2, Merryl, and Kelsey from this season would be an interesting pairing too)

Edited November 11, 2021 by TeapotWakeen
found pilot's name

[Quickbeam]

The cilantro thing is a genetic trait. It tastes like soap to people with that propensity. Sorry, too many DNA tests.

I know they have tried to make things gender neutral (like with weight) but I think it’s harder than I thought to make challenges even.

[Fretful]

On 11/10/2021 at 7:46 PM, zoey1996 said:

Neither of tonight’s individual challenges (cilantro and harrowing) involved brute strength or brawn. Lia won cilantro, Quincy won harrowing, but either challenge could have gone either way. Harrowing was especially attention to detail and quality control.  
 

I was imagining the scent of cilantro, which I love, during that challenge. I’m lucky that cilantro tastes as good as it smells to me. I know people that can’t tolerate the taste. Does it smell bad/soapy to them too?

I liked this week's challenges.   I would like to see more of these kinds of things.

I have that "cilantro tastes like soap" gene.  I've never noticed it in the smell, but I've never been in a whole field of it either.   Anyway, it's not the same as an allergy, so I'd just have to ignore the smell and keep going.

[RunningMarket]

This is not the first time Kelsey has insisted she knows best - only to fail. Elizabeth mentioned she has done actually irrigation work, but they deferred to Kelsey because "she IS agriculture!" And it turns out that Elizabeth's idea of two at a time/partnering was the best one. They realized it too late.

Christine was done as soon as she couldn't get the tractor into gear. They go the same speed, so unless Quincy made a huge error, she was never going to catch up. (Regardless of how close the editing made it look.)

[Leeds]

I wrote the following paragraph before I watched this episode lol.  (Although I still think my version is better!)

 

Here's an idea for an equalizing task - have them harvest a lot of a low-growing crop (ideally strawberries) in 120 degree heat.  Do proper quality control.  Highest weight wins.  Ask anyone who works in the fields whether that's tough or not, even though it doesn't require brute strength.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Leeds
The show beat me to it!

[Grizzly]

Tonight is reminding me of Amazing Race. Very detailed tasks and the judge doesn't tell them what's wrong with it. So they drive themselves crazy trying to figure it out.

[Leeds]

On 11/14/2021 at 8:51 AM, Fretful said:

I have that "cilantro tastes like soap" gene.  I've never noticed it in the smell, but I've never been in a whole field of it either.   Anyway, it's not the same as an allergy, so I'd just have to ignore the smell and keep going.

I used to taste "fresh cilantro as soap", but while spending time in Thailand (not on a Westerners' beach!) there was no other choice than to get accustomed to and appreciate it.  Since then I've loved it!

[Lamb18]

10 hours ago, Grizzly said:

Tonight is reminding me of Amazing Race. Very detailed tasks and the judge doesn't tell them what's wrong with it. So they drive themselves crazy trying to figure it out.

I think they had a task like that in TAR in the finale in Detroit. Actually it was putting a drum set together, I think.

The individual and last place competitions were good in that brute strength did not matter. You had to have some strength for the letters, but finesse was needed more. The DJ stands needed good visual memory and attention to detail more than strength.

[SuburbanHangSuite]

Alfie, Alfie, Alfie.  How did you not see that the "Get" and "To" were too close together?!  Kadooz to Quincey for remaining calm and focused on his task and not his competition..  That's two weeks in a row that his methodical nature paid off.  

Early in the season, I really thought I would root against Lia because her "Jill-of-All-Trades" thing kind of annoyed me but she has grown on me.  She does everything well, she's always right up there near first place and she's a woman of a certain age.  They'd better not sleep on her for the Final.

[mlp]

I couldn't understand how any of them could miss seeing that the records were missing from their turntables.  It looked obvious to me but several of them made the same mistake so I guess it wasn't if you were right there.

I like both Alfie and Quincey so I hated seeing both of them in the Overtime round knowing one of them had to lose.  I hope Alfie makes some money anyway.

 

 

[Taeolas]

I think the records on the demo setup were Grey or something, while the records for their own stands were coloured to match their stand. So it could be the records just blended in on the turntable and weren't obvious on the demo as being an extra set of items. 

 

I'm surprised once one person got it, they didn't start using that stand as their template. I don't think they did anything to cover it up, but maybe it was against the rules. Looking at "active" stations was allowed since it was done a few times, but no one looked at completed stations. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Taeolas

[Maverick]

On 11/18/2021 at 7:59 AM, Lamb18 said:

I think they had a task like that in TAR in the finale in Detroit. Actually it was putting a drum set together, I think.

 This task was a cake walk compared to this.   In TAR, they had like a dozen bands playing Seven Nation Army, over and over and over again.    It was so loud the band members had to wear headphones.   But yes, I was totally getting TAR vibes this episode with the judging and graphics pointing out the error.   

[bunnyface]

I hate to say this, but if they could have gotten Kelsey and Elizabeth to stop sniping at each other and concentrate on the work, they might have had a chance.  There have been a few challenges where they have been at each other and it just brings the whole team down.  I'm not sure, but it seems Kelsey is the bigger sniper.  She just gets on my nerves.

[mertensia]

Man, I did not see Tak losing to Quincey. I like Quincy so I'm glad he stayed.

[Taeolas]

Those were some really well balanced tasks that didn't need brute strength like others tend to do. And it showed, when the two remaining women finished well before the rest of the pack. They certainly weren't easy tasks too, with the attention to detail needed for the line painting. 

 

The Valet task was interesting too. A little contrived in some ways, but still something many people probably don't really think of.  After all, in a real valet parking lot, they'd just pull the four cars forward and park in the road, drive the truck out, and then back the cars back into the slots and call it a day. But under the rules, it made sense and was both a mental and an endurance challenge. 

[NYGirl]

I'm not so enthused this year.  I'm very tired of the sob stories every single week from every single contestant.  Also when did Phil start sounding like Jeff Probst during the challenges?  I always loved Phill and now I can't stand the sound of his voice as he yells out what's going on.

That said I'm rooting for the Jill of all Trades!

[mlp]

7 hours ago, NYGirl said:

I'm not so enthused this year.  I'm very tired of the sob stories every single week from every single contestant.

I am losing interest in this show, partly because of the sob stories but even more because of the very saccharine bonhomie which is probably producer-driven to a large extent.  I have a hard time believing that a whole team was motivated by a sad story about the nephew of a competitor.  And I'm sick of all the THs by Sarah who has a bad attitude and was eliminated weeks ago.  They should be focusing on the people still in the running.

[SVNBob]

16 hours ago, NYGirl said:

Also when did Phil start sounding like Jeff Probst during the challenges?

To be fair, it's not like Phil can do live commentary like this on TAR all the time.  Even ignoring the timing issues, Detours totally preclude commentary (as that could require Phil to literally be in two places at once), and doing it for Roadblocks wouldn't be fair. 

The closest he's had on TAR were the Head-to-Heads that were literally right before and in sight of Pit Stops.

Given that he's still learning how to do commentary like this, it's not too surprising that he's aping the style of the host of the long-runner on the same network who has been doing live commentary for a lot longer.

[aemom]

I was pleased to see that they didn't wind up needing a tiebreaker for the winning team challenge. Last season it looked a little bit suspicious. 

Kelsy and Elizabeth are constantly sniping with each other.

I liked how the challenges weren't brawn related at all and how women finished 1-2 in the individual challenge. 

I'm curious to see how the final will play out.

[Grizzly]

That was unexpected. Mike fit the type who've won the first 2 seasons, thought he would take it. Not that I wanted him to. I'd like to see a woman win and Elizabeth & Lia are quite capable. But Quincy and Jerome are also likable and capable.

Watching the tasks was kind of boring. I didn't like the team challenge coming down to individual head to head competitions.

[Angeleyes]

 I’m starting to think maybe Lia will win the whole thing. Mike’s loss tonight was huge. It was a weird overtime competition. Building a custom piece of furniture is not something that should have been done for speed. Maybe it’s just the times we are living in, but I felt squeamish at both contestants bleeding all over the place. I know everyone is screened for illness, but it was hard to watch. 

[Bumblebee84047]

I went from being annoyed by Lia to rooting for her to win the whole thing.

[Taeolas]

While it was a "custom" piece of furniture, it was more like Ikea than "here's a log, build a rocking chair" level. Most of the hard work was done, aside from the dowels; all the pieces were precut and shaped, so it was literally just making 6 dowels and being able to hammer them into place. 

 

It is a bit interesting, the show is going into the final and it doesn't have an Alpha-Male type in it. Two men and two women, and none are the type we used to see. Quincy might be the closest to that "type" but (no offense to him) he looks softer than the muscle bound alpha type like Mike (and Mike wasn't that muscle bound either).

 

I'm not sure if a woman can win this year, but they certainly have the best chance of pulling it off.

 

And yeah, I don't really like that the final "team" challenge was a series of individual tasks. I do like the idea of a skills challenge somehow, (Like the Top Chef relays), but I'm not sure how best to set it up in a ToughAsNails format that makes sense. 

[bunnyface]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:35 PM, bunnyface said:

I hate to say this, but if they could have gotten Kelsey and Elizabeth to stop sniping at each other and concentrate on the work, they might have had a chance.  There have been a few challenges where they have been at each other and it just brings the whole team down.  I'm not sure, but it seems Kelsey is the bigger sniper.  She just gets on my nerves.

I'm sure now.  It's official.  Kelsey is the one I don't like.  I would love to see Elizabeth or Lia win this whole thing, but more Lia.

[mlp]

8 hours ago, Taeolas said:

I'm not sure if a woman can win this year, but they certainly have the best chance of pulling it off.

I'm not so sure that there hasn't been some manipulation going on to that end.  Or maybe a woman did win and the producers have just focused on them all season.  Dunno but the women have had the lion's share of THs and kudos and "heartfelt" crap.

The last task really bugged me.  Mike cut himself and enough blood flew around to make it look like he sliced an artery.  In the next scenes, he had a Band-Aid on one hand and there was no blood in sight.  I understand that blood is a bio-hazard and they probably did have to stop and clean everything up but there was no acknowledgement that that happened.  Then Mike was way ahead while Elizabeth was breaking all her dowels when suddenly it was down to the wire, they were somehow neck and neck and Mike breaks a dowel and Elizabeth wins.  How did she catch up?  

Then Mike, who wanted to win just as badly as the rest of them, made a "heartfelt" speech about women in the trades and even mentioned all of them by name as the camera panned around.  I don't believe for one minute that he wasn't asked/required to do that.  

He won't win because he's the wrong gender for this season but I'm still rooting for Quincy just because I like him best.

[NYGirl]

I'm so excited Lia made it to the finals!  I really hope she wins

[judyri]

On 11/18/2021 at 7:59 AM, Lamb18 said:

I think they had a task like that in TAR in the finale in Detroit. Actually it was putting a drum set together, I think.

All while listening to an endless choir singing Seven Nation Army by the White Stripes (Detroit band so fitting!) I love the song but after an hour at top volume, really caused chaos.  I miss TAR so much!

[Lamb18]

I'm cheering for Lia. But any of them winning is OK.

[Lamb18]

Yay for Lia! In the final 3!

Let's see if Elizabeth can pull this off.

[Lamb18]

I have a kind of sad memory associated with a skidsteer. One winter several years ago I was walking around the winter cow pasture and there was a little dead calf. She was one of my favorites. I told the farm manager. She was still there the next day, so I mentioned the calf again. The farm manager said they had to wait for the skidsteer before they could move her. (The farm is part of the park district so I suppose the skidsteer was at a different location.) The mother was so unhappy. It's hard when the mother moos at you like she's saying "Help my baby!" and you can't do anything.

[Lamb18]

Hurray!!! Lia won!!! Congratulations!! 

[DEL901]

Yeah Lia.   I was sceptical when she started, but she won me over with her work ethic and attitude.  

[Taeolas]

Yeah, Lia pulled it off. I think her recognizing the ropes were slipknots were what gave her the edge in the end. The other two were spending a lot of time detangling ropes, while she managed to slip them free. 

In most of the rest of the challenges she was as fast or a hair slower than the others (until it came to the detangling task of the sledgehammer).  Still, it was an endurance race with a bit of strength involved and she pulled it off; probably partly because Mike didn't make it to the end. 

I do like that the Top 3 was ultimately a skill challenge; strength didn't come into play, just how well you could learn to handle the skid steer. Even the backflow valve wasn't really strength related; she was pretty on pace with Quincy to the end. Hard to say if Quincy's method was ultimately better or not compared to hers.