S02.E07: The Shillelagh

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, Elizzikra said:

Team Betty seems pretty rabid in its defense of her and criticism of anyone and everyone "anti-Betty." Kim, the oldest child, falls into that category because she testified for the prosecution. Several of them have commented on other sites that she was "an adult" when she testified (I think she was 20 at the first trial and maybe 21 - 22 at the second) and that she "knew what she was doing." She also maintains a cordial relationship with Linda's sister, which Team Betty also holds against her. I know that two of Betty's children have opposed her parole so maybe Kim was one of those two. That would further incite the wrath of Team Betty.

I don't think that the (now adult) Broderick children deserve anything but peace and privacy. None of them asked for any of this and none of them appear to have sought out any sort of media or public attention in many, many years. i think their childhood was unimaginably difficult and I'm sure it haunts each of them to this day. So I don't offer any of this as a rational explanation for what Team Betty does - I think it's repugnant that they would say any of these sorts of things and in particular, seek out one of the Broderick siblings to say it to them, but evidently they do.

Wow. Thanks for the explanation. I can certainly understand sympathizing with Betty's anger and pain in and of itself, and even if someone thinks the killing was justified, well...I disagree with that, but okay, others have that opinion, whatever. But yeah, that's where their feelings on the matter should stop. If they honestly think harassing her family somehow helps their arguments for supporting Betty and demanding her freedom, then they sound just as messed up as Betty herself does. Like minds, though, I guess? 

I fully agree with you about the kids, too. Whether they testified against her or support her, I can sympathize with both attitudes. Some kids cut off any and all contact with a parent who commits murder, some try and keep the lines of communication open, some remain close and supportive. I can't even begin to imagine how complicated and complex a child's feelings towards their parent would be in the wake of something like this, so I don't feel it's my place to judge them for whichever decision they make. If their decision, whichever one it is, helps them learn to cope with and move past such a tragedy, then so be it. 

[Mrs. Hanson]

20 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

Team Betty seems pretty rabid in its defense of her and criticism of anyone and everyone "anti-Betty." Kim, the oldest child, falls into that category because she testified for the prosecution. Several of them have commented on other sites that she was "an adult" when she testified (I think she was 20 at the first trial and maybe 21 - 22 at the second) and that she "knew what she was doing." She also maintains a cordial relationship with Linda's sister, which Team Betty also holds against her. I know that two of Betty's children have opposed her parole so maybe Kim was one of those two. That would further incite the wrath of Team Betty.

I don't think that the (now adult) Broderick children deserve anything but peace and privacy. None of them asked for any of this and none of them appear to have sought out any sort of media or public attention in many, many years. i think their childhood was unimaginably difficult and I'm sure it haunts each of them to this day. So I don't offer any of this as a rational explanation for what Team Betty does - I think it's repugnant that they would say any of these sorts of things and in particular, seek out one of the Broderick siblings to say it to them, but evidently they do.

Unrelated - why was this episode called "Shillelagh?" I know what that is (I had to look it up) and I saw where the woman in the bar referenced it but other than that - why is it significant enough for the episode title?

I believe it is Kim and Dan IV who are opposed to parole and Lee and Rhett who want her out.

I, too, want more input on the title.  Anyone?

[laprin]

19 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

Unrelated - why was this episode called "Shillelagh?" I know what that is (I had to look it up) and I saw where the woman in the bar referenced it but other than that - why is it significant enough for the episode title?

Betty and Dan met at the Notre Dame/USC game. Shillelagh refers to the trophy. It’s fitting that the episode in which she kills Dan references the first time they met. Brings their relationship full circle.

[divsc]

I think Dan bringing Linda to the USC/Notre Dame game that late October, the week before the murders, was a real emotional trigger for Betty. 

[Elizzikra]

7 minutes ago, divsc said:

I think Dan bringing Linda to the USC/Notre Dame game that late October, the week before the murders, was a real emotional trigger for Betty. 

Hadnt Dan taken Linda to that game before they were married too? I can see where it was still upsetting but I don’t think it was the first time she suffered this particular insult.

[marybennet]

About the title...As people have said above, the Shillelagh is the game trophy, which is in the shape of an Irish heavy, knotty -looking walking stick. It has a history of being used as a weapon and so is not just a walking stick. The Shillelagh is the gun, in a way, I think, if we’re being figurative.  And it’s also her support.  And in the Irish song Finnegans Wake (a song you’d probably know if you hung out drinking with a Notre Dame sports crowd and also the title used by James Joyce for his long and crazy last novel), a fight breaks out at a wake, where everybody is drunk and the corpse is laid out in something like a bed, and the song says that “shillelagh law” ruled, which is to say a kind of a brawl breaks out.  The social gathering is ruled by the shillelagh. Betty (I’m thinking figuratively, again) is operating on the principle of shillelagh law (not Dan's law), in which violence rules. (In the song, Finnegan, the dead guy, wakes up when whiskey is spilled on him, so he’s kind of resurrected,  sadly not the way the Broderick story can end.)

Edited July 9, 2020 by marybennet

[vmcd88]

I remember watching a 20/20 episode on this case years ago. I was struck by how much Linda looked like Betty when she was younger.   Dan was restarting his life with a younger Betty.  Not excusing Betty’s behavior but that had to be a total mind f*ck.  

[watcherwoman]

I watched the movie Upside of Anger last night.  If anyone remembers it, the movie starred Joan Allen and Kevin Costner.  Joan played a woman who believed her husband ran off with his secretary.   Joan's portrayal of the jilted wife reminded me a bit of Betty, without going that far.   Joan's character was extremely bitter and it took a long time for her to return to her former happy self, but she never had the contentious fighting back and forth with her husband.  He just disappeared and left her to raise her 4 daughters.  Horrible way to go too.  I won't tell the ending, but it's a good one.  Betty, Clara Harris,  and Jean Harris and the Scarsdale murder scandal really showed the over the top reaction to being betrayed.  Scary stuff!

[CynicalGirl]

23 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

I'm not sure Betty will ever be granted parole due to her lack of remorse that's held steadfast all of these years.  Maybe she's adapted so well to prison life that she's content there.  Maybe in her mind, it's worth losing her "outside" life just so she can sleep at night knowing Dan and Linda aren't inhabiting the earth.  

 

 

 

 

 

I absolutely agree. She's been up for parole 3 times and has never shown remorse. She still feels she was the victim and they got what they deserved.  She's 72 now and has been in prison around 30 years. Anyone who wanted to get out would at least feign remorse but I agree she's content and probably sleeps just fine. Her next parole date is 2032 so I think it's more likely she will die in prison.

[kitmerlot1213]

On 7/7/2020 at 11:58 PM, DanaK said:

Very tense episode leading up to the murders. <snip>

Throughout the series there's been this ominous sense of doom and this last episode was beyond disturbing.  The scenes where Betty just laid in bed and daylight kept rising and falling and you realize that was days passing by--DAMN!  But I think what disturbed me the most was the wordless scene between Betty and her second daughter--the young girl is staring at her mother in horrified silence, knowing she's just shot her dad, while Betty just gazes back at her with a broken expression, like she can't quite believe what's happened.

Both Meredith Baxter and Amanda Peet's versions of Betty are worthy of praise and I especially like that this series has Peet showing just how psychologically damaged Betty was and that she couldn't comprehend going on with her life.

My sympathy will always be with the four Broderick children, especially the two little boys and I don't feel any angst for Dan or Linda--by no means did they deserve to be killed, but you can't find your personal happiness while destroying someone else's and not expect some kind of karmic payback.   Of course Betty shouldn't have left vulgar messages on thei answering machine that the kids could over-hear, but I don't care one iota that Linda's feelings might have been hurt by them. 

I wonder, if Dan had left Betty and then six months later met Linda, would she still have been as vengeful?

Edited July 9, 2020 by kitmerlot1213

[poeticlicensed]

10 hours ago, divsc said:

I think Dan bringing Linda to the USC/Notre Dame game that late October, the week before the murders, was a real emotional trigger for Betty

Yeah, she seemed super fixated on that game each year. Again, unhealthy behavior from Betty. Why go to a bar and sob about it? Why not do something fun on that day? Same with the wedding day. Why would you sit at home going though your wedding album on the day your douchebag ex marries his bimbo? I'd be on the beach in Hawaii having Mai Tais and shopping. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by poeticlicensed

[poeticlicensed]

12 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I wonder, if Dan had left Betty and then six months later met Linda, would she still have been as vengeful?

Idk but my observation is that in general men leave when they find someone. I had a neighbor whose husband walked out on her out of the blue,. When he left he wouldn't tell her why so she thought he was mentally ill because he was acting so crazy. She seriously thought he had a nervous breakdown and was suicidal and was trying to get him committed or to see a therapist. Seriously. Turns out he was having a long term affair with a co-worker, who finally gave him an ultimatum. And he had systematically been draining all their bank accounts and investments to support his double life, which included an apartment across town. The money was running out and his side piece was getting demanding, so he was losing it. 3 kids under the age of 6. Unbelieveable. 

[mamadrama]

34 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

Yeah, she seemed super fixated on that game each year. Again, unhealthy behavior from Betty. Why go to a bar and sob about it? Why not do something fun on that day? Same with the wedding day. Why would you sit at home going though your wedding album on the day your douchebag ex marries his bimbo? I'd be on the beach in Hawaii having Mai Tais and shopping. 

Yeah, really, but I think these are good examples of how far her mental health had deteriorated. At the beginning of the episode Dan was talking about how one person's perception of reality became that person's truth. I don't think she could control her obsessiveness and stuff either (excluding the murders) there at the end-she'd already taken a dive at the deep end. She had good advice given to her, even had some support, but she couldn't see anything outside of that box she was living in. Whatever broke inside of her was no longer easily fixable. Her lack of impulse control, obsessiveness, anger issues...

"Billing" her for her actions wasn't going to work. Keeping her kids away wasn't going to work. Threatening wasn't going to work. Whatever rational part of her brain that normally responded to those things wasn't on. She needed to be in an inpatient treatment facility with around-the-clock care and good drugs. And, even then, I'm not sure it would've helped. Here we are 30 years later and she's still pretty much refusing to admit that when she did was wrong.

 

[Mrs. Hanson]

14 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Yeah, really, but I think these are good examples of how far her mental health had deteriorated. At the beginning of the episode Dan was talking about how one person's perception of reality became that person's truth. I don't think she could control her obsessiveness and stuff either (excluding the murders) there at the end-she'd already taken a dive at the deep end. She had good advice given to her, even had some support, but she couldn't see anything outside of that box she was living in. Whatever broke inside of her was no longer easily fixable. Her lack of impulse control, obsessiveness, anger issues...

"Billing" her for her actions wasn't going to work. Keeping her kids away wasn't going to work. Threatening wasn't going to work. Whatever rational part of her brain that normally responded to those things wasn't on. She needed to be in an inpatient treatment facility with around-the-clock care and good drugs. And, even then, I'm not sure it would've helped. Here we are 30 years later and she's still pretty much refusing to admit that when she did was wrong.

 

I agree with this whole post, especially the second part.  Billing her, keeping the kids from her, thretening, all did not work.  They seemed to amp her up even more.  She did need an inpatient therapy program because it seemed she was brainwashed or something!

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

Throughout the series there's been this ominous sense of doom and this last episode was beyond disturbing.  The scenes where Betty just laid in bed and daylight kept rising and falling and you realize that was days passing by--DAMN!  But I think what disturbed me the most was the wordless scene between Betty and her second daughter--the young girl is staring at her mother in horrified silence, knowing she's just shot her dad, while Betty just gazes back at her with a broken expression, like she can't quite believe what's happened.

Agreed on all of this. They did really well with the tension in these last few episodes especially...you knew what was coming and it made every awful moment leading up to this (and the few bittersweet and happy moments as well) all the more upsetting. My stomach just kept sinking further and further the closer we got to the final act in this crazy story. 

3 hours ago, watcherwoman said:

Betty, Clara Harris,  and Jean Harris and the Scarsdale murder scandal really showed the over the top reaction to being betrayed.  Scary stuff!

Funny you mention the Scarsdale murder scandal-I just caught an episode of some show about that story this morning. 

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, indeed. 

[mamadrama]

2 hours ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I agree with this whole post, especially the second part.  Billing her, keeping the kids from her, thretening, all did not work.  They seemed to amp her up even more.  She did need an inpatient therapy program because it seemed she was brainwashed or something!

Yeah, she really fell apart. Even if she'd closed her mouth around her kids and friends, she was still super obsessed and wouldn't have been able to shut off what was going on inside. Her crazy behavior wasn't necessarily her being hateful, it was an outward display of what was happening inside. That's terrifying.

Oddly enough, since she'd pretty much convinced herself that Dan and Linda were ruining her life, she probably DID get the best night's sleep in jail. 

[Goodtimes]

The "Team Betty" people on Facebook are also harassing a relative of Linda Kolkena. These fans are rabid, you would think they lived this personally. Last I read Betty seems happy to stay in prison, she calls it "her gated retirement home."  

[mostlylurking]

I was 9 when this happened so obvi didn’t really get it or care, although I do remember it and all the subsequent movies.  Like others before me I will put a disclaimer on my comments that the end result was obviously not OK At All, but I do see how Betty got to that point.  I feel very badly for everyone, particularly the young boys.  Betty actually had some good friends that were sticking by her and sticking up for her.  She had competent lawyers and even therapists.  She had a lot more support than many women in similar situations; it’s such a tragedy that none of that helped her in the end.

Except for the murder part I really didn’t feel much sympathy for Linda or Dan.  They should have changed their locks, gotten a security system, been more proactive with security in general, but no, they were too busy mocking Betty and thinking they were superior.  Not quite sure why a cheat and his mistress would think they had the higher moral ground ever, but ok.  Linda was young but I have to agree, Dan would have done the same to her as he did to his first wife.  If he’s cheating on his wife with you, he will cheat on you with someone else.  Thems the breaks.

I don’t know how to feel about Amanda Peet in this role except it really grosses me out that she’s always eating and talking with her mouth full.  Yuck.  Christian Slater is one of those actors that doesn’t age, a la John Stamos.  The 80’s fashions are on point.

Edited July 9, 2020 by mostlylurking

[Joimiaroxeu]

Wonder why Linda didn't have the wedding list on a computer instead of on a piece of paper?
 
Sad to see how Betty was slowly disintegrating until she finally broke.

The most sad to me was how the kids were used by both Betty and Dan as weapons.

[divsc]

9 hours ago, CynicalGirl said:

I absolutely agree. She's been up for parole 3 times and has never shown remorse. She still feels she was the victim and they got what they deserved.  She's 72 now and has been in prison around 30 years. Anyone who wanted to get out would at least feign remorse but I agree she's content and probably sleeps just fine. Her next parole date is 2032 so I think it's more likely she will die in prison.

Agreed. Betty is just not sorry. It was totally worth it to her to kill them and spend the rest of her life in prison than to stomach Linda living the life that was supposed to be hers and watching Dan go on with his life after leaving her. But man, you would think after a certain point, she would at least try to fake some remorse and say the right things to get out of prison. They are dead, it's over, she could have still had many years left in the outside world with her family and grandchildren. I don't think she's capable of being able to even *feign* remorse. If you watch her speak on her case in real life at all, she can never contain herself. The anger and rage and justifying and blame starts spewing out like this all just happened last week. And apparently she must not mind prison life all that much. She really doesn't play any kind of game or strategy just for the sake of getting her own freedom back. She's got some chip missing. 

[lovesnark]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Wonder why Linda didn't have the wedding list on a computer instead of on a piece of paper?
 
Sad to see how Betty was slowly disintegrating until she finally broke.

The most sad to me was how the kids were used by both Betty and Dan as weapons.

In the mid to late 80's, computers weren't everywhere like they are now. Some businesses were using them and there were a few homes with them, but home computers were more of a novelty. We saw Linda learning to type on an IBM Selectric typewriter, so I'm thinking the office wasn't using computers either. It wasn't until the mid 90's that you'd find a computer in most homes and those were used for bookkeeping, writing letters and some games. All installed on the hard drive because the world hadn't gone online yet.

Edited July 9, 2020 by lovesnark

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

In the mid to late 80's, computers weren't everywhere like they are now. Some businesses were using them and there were a few homes with them, but home computers were more of a novelty.

I think by the late 80s, besides tech workers, well-heeled people in places like LA, San Francisco, and New York did have PCs and it seemed to me Dan would've been all over it as a status symbol. And as far as software was concerned, I envisioned them using Lotus 1-2-3 and WordPerfect until Microsoft took over so-called "office" software market. But I agree that PCs didn't really become commonplace until regular people could access the internet.

[divsc]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Wonder why Linda didn't have the wedding list on a computer instead of on a piece of paper?
 
Sad to see how Betty was slowly disintegrating until she finally broke.

The most sad to me was how the kids were used by both Betty and Dan as weapons.

Well according to Betty and Dan's other secretaries, Linda couldn't type, remember?!! 

[geauxaway]

One thing I noticed is Betty was still wearing her wedding set.  Not surprising, but still just another symbol of her delusion and failure to MOVE ON.

[Elizzikra]

23 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I think by the late 80s, besides tech workers, well-heeled people in places like LA, San Francisco, and New York did have PCs and it seemed to me Dan would've been all over it as a status symbol. And as far as software was concerned, I envisioned them using Lotus 1-2-3 and WordPerfect until Microsoft took over so-called "office" software market. But I agree that PCs didn't really become commonplace until regular people could access the internet.

I was in college 1988 - 1992 and then working in a pretty large hospital. Late 80’s a decent home PC would cost around $10,000 and people still weren’t sure they were going to “catch on.” Dan might have wanted/had one as a status symbol but if Linda couldn’t type, she wouldn’t have had any motivation to put manage her wedding list on a computer. It makes perfect sense to me that she was managing her wedding planning with paper and pen. 

I worked in a pretty major hospital out of college and while there were computers on the units, administrative and leadership didn’t have them. Correspondence was handled on a typewriter until at least 1993-1994. I think large law firms were about on par with that. It was really email and the internet that sped up adoption of computers as a tool for almost anyone...

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Late 80’s a decent home PC would cost around $10,000 and people still weren’t sure they were going to “catch on.”

Pretty sure I had a Zenith laptop in the late 80s and I didn't pay anywhere near $10k for it. It only had DOS though; I don't recall whether Windows had arrived yet.

As far as needing to type to use a PC, plenty of programmers as well as well-known writers don't type and manage to use computers just fine albeit perhaps more slowly. Now if the point is that Linda was likely too dim or lazy to use a PC, I can't disagree with that.

[Elizzikra]

5 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Pretty sure I had a Zenith laptop in the late 80s and I didn't pay anywhere near $10k for it. It only had DOS though; I don't recall whether Windows had arrived yet.

As far as needing to type to use a PC, plenty of programmers as well as well-known writers don't type and manage to use computers just fine albeit perhaps more slowly. Now if the point is that Linda was likely too dim or lazy to use a PC, I can't disagree with that.

Agree to disagree then. I didn’t find this particular point of the story odd at all.

[lovesnark]

24 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

I was in college 1988 - 1992 and then working in a pretty large hospital. Late 80’s a decent home PC would cost around $10,000 and people still weren’t sure they were going to “catch on.” Dan might have wanted/had one as a status symbol but if Linda couldn’t type, she wouldn’t have had any motivation to put manage her wedding list on a computer. It makes perfect sense to me that she was managing her wedding planning with paper and pen. 

I worked in a pretty major hospital out of college and while there were computers on the units, administrative and leadership didn’t have them. Correspondence was handled on a typewriter until at least 1993-1994. I think large law firms were about on par with that. It was really email and the internet that sped up adoption of computers as a tool for almost anyone...

I worked in a hospital from 1975 to 1986 and part of my job was typing up the surgery schedule for the next day. Watching Linda use that IBM Selectric really brought back memories. Instead of having standard typewriter keys, they had a little ball that rotated around and hit the ribbon. And, there were different balls with different fonts you could change out! I thought it was the coolest thing ever because I could type in cursive😂 Back then, the only computer in the hospital was in the data processing department. The printer was as big as a kitchen table and took up half of one wall in the room.

[txhorns79]

3 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Late 80’s a decent home PC would cost around $10,000 and people still weren’t sure they were going to “catch on.” Dan might have wanted/had one as a status symbol but if Linda couldn’t type, she wouldn’t have had any motivation to put manage her wedding list on a computer. It makes perfect sense to me that she was managing her wedding planning with paper and pen. 

We had an Apple IIgs in the late 80s.  I looked up the cost of the higher end version, and it was around $1,300.00, which would be close to $3,000.00 in today's money.  I can't imagine there would have been much of a market for a PC that cost up to $10,000.00. 

 

9 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

 Not quite sure why a cheat and his mistress would think they had the higher moral ground ever, but ok.  

I mean, when your ex is driving her car into your living room when she knows the kids are home, you might feel she has given up the high ground. 

[Armchair Critic]

11 hours ago, Goodtimes said:

The "Team Betty" people on Facebook are also harassing a relative of Linda Kolkena. These fans are rabid, you would think they lived this personally.

Scary. I feel so bad for the relatives (except maybe Dan's brother who was also a jerk). 

Even some of the wackos on the reality shows I snark about here, I wouldn't go on their Facebook or Instagram or whatever and harass them.

[VagueDisclaimer]

On 7/8/2020 at 9:37 AM, Persnickety1 said:

So tragic all the way around.  

After watching my BFF go through her own Dan debacle, I've always understood why Betty did what she did.  I don't condone it, but I do understand it.  In Betty's mind, it was psychological self-defense.  Dan was never coming back, her life would never be the same, and her entire world was yanked out from under her feet.  When the ending scene showed Betty laying down on her cot in the cell, my first thought was that was probably the first good night's sleep she'd had in years because the "enemy" was no longer a threat.  

I don't believe I could ever have been driven to do what Betty did, though.  From getting the gun, stealing the daughter's key (I can't even imagine the level of guilt that girl still deals with), driving over to Dan's house, using said key to find a way into the house, climbing the stairs, going into their room with the loaded gun drawn and pointed...damn, that's a whole lot of fucking premeditation right there.  A sane person would have pulled back at some point and not followed through.  Unfortunately, at that point, Betty wasn't sane.  Not even close.  Her friends obviously knew this and had concerns about Dan's safety, but their concerns fell on Dan's deaf ears.  She would never kill her "golden goose."  Well, guess again, Dan.  Unlike what you believed, this was never actually about money for Betty.  

I'm not sure Betty will ever be granted parole due to her lack of remorse that's held steadfast all of these years.  Maybe she's adapted so well to prison life that she's content there.  Maybe in her mind, it's worth losing her "outside" life just so she can sleep at night knowing Dan and Linda aren't inhabiting the earth.  

Like I said, the level of premeditation that went into murdering Dan and Linda was pretty significant.  A sane person would have stepped back and reconsidered.  I think combined with her lack of remorse, the premeditation is also a sticking point for the parole board.  As unstable as she was, she was cognizant enough to form that plan and then carry it out.  No matter how much (justified) hatred I had towards Dan and Linda, I believe I would have stayed rational enough to talk myself off that proverbial edge.  

Not that I'm an angel by any extent of the imagination.  I can absolutely put myself in Clara Harris' place and hitting that gas pedal with the quickness.  Of course, Clara served her sentence and is now back in society whilst Betty still sits in prison white-knuckling her hatred of her victims.  

I'm looking forward to seeing how next week's episode puts all the ensuing legal shenanigans what with the two trials, etc., into a 45-minute time frame.  

 

 

 

 

OT, but I looove your avatar 🙂

[geauxaway]

A couple more observations from this episode. Once again Betty disrespects the judge and his court room.  She flat out LIES about the wedding guest list IN COURT, and she showed up in a sweatshirt and jeans.  
 

Then she unloads to a complete stranger at the sports bar.  That poor woman just wanted to cheer on ND, not hear crazy ass Betty go on about her dog of a husband.  And she couldn’t even talk about it in a “normal” way to a total stranger.  She had to get all graphic and vulgar.  
 

The scenes at the end were all very well done by all actors involved.  

[mamadrama]

11 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I was in college 1988 - 1992 and then working in a pretty large hospital. Late 80’s a decent home PC would cost around $10,000 and people still weren’t sure they were going to “catch on.” Dan might have wanted/had one as a status symbol but if Linda couldn’t type, she wouldn’t have had any motivation to put manage her wedding list on a computer. It makes perfect sense to me that she was managing her wedding planning with paper and pen. 

I worked in a pretty major hospital out of college and while there were computers on the units, administrative and leadership didn’t have them. Correspondence was handled on a typewriter until at least 1993-1994. I think large law firms were about on par with that. It was really email and the internet that sped up adoption of computers as a tool for almost anyone...

I mean, we had a computer in '88. My mom was a single parent going to college at the time and we lived in government housing. The first one I remember buying (as in, I was a part of the process) was in '91. It was $2,100. I remember this because I was there when we bought it and over the next few years my mom frequently hollered, "Don't drink/eat/play by the computer! It was $2,100!"

We had Comadores in my classroom from 1986 onwards and I lived in one of the poorest counties in the nation. (The War on Poverty was literally declared while the president was standing on a porch less than a mile away from our house.)

It was definitely possible to own a PC in the late 80s/early 90s for less than $2,500... Some brands could even be had for less than $1,000.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2018/06/22/cost-of-a-computer-the-year-you-were-born/36156373/

[Persnickety1]

12 hours ago, lovesnark said:

I worked in a hospital from 1975 to 1986 and part of my job was typing up the surgery schedule for the next day. Watching Linda use that IBM Selectric really brought back memories. Instead of having standard typewriter keys, they had a little ball that rotated around and hit the ribbon. And, there were different balls with different fonts you could change out! I thought it was the coolest thing ever because I could type in cursive😂 Back then, the only computer in the hospital was in the data processing department. The printer was as big as a kitchen table and took up half of one wall in the room.

Same here...then along came the Wang word processor with its huge floppy disks and changed everything.  Damn, I loved that stupid thing and its Word Perfect program.

Back on topic to Betty, I wasn't sure where to post this but Court TV now has an app for phone or TV that has a library of classic trials to watch, such as this one, OJ, Menendez, Harris, etc.  I installed it on my Roku TV last night and spent about 4 hours watching the opening statements and the first witness.  It's broken down into titled segments so if you want to watch a particular portion of the trial, you'll be able to find it easily.

Happy Friday!  😄

Edited July 10, 2020 by Persnickety1

[Snickerdoodle]

1 hour ago, mamadrama said:

I mean, we had a computer in '88. My mom was a single parent going to college at the time and we lived in government housing. The first one I remember buying (as in, I was a part of the process) was in '91. It was $2,100. I remember this because I was there when we bought it and over the next few years my mom frequently hollered, "Don't drink/eat/play by the computer! It was $2,100!"

We had Comadores in my classroom from 1986 onwards and I lived in one of the poorest counties in the nation. (The War on Poverty was literally declared while the president was standing on a porch less than a mile away from our house.)

It was definitely possible to own a PC in the late 80s/early 90s for less than $2,500... Some brands could even be had for less than $1,000.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2018/06/22/cost-of-a-computer-the-year-you-were-born/36156373/

I agree that they could have had a computer.  I think what we have to remember is that using the computer wasn’t second nature to a lot of people then.  Another thing I think of is back then we were taught to write a rough draft on paper first, and then type it up.  I started high school in 1990, and I can remember composing a first draft of anything on the computer was discouraged.  Even in 2002 when I started teaching some of my colleagues were opposed to having students compose using the computer.  It was hand write the rough draft, then type.  My point is while yes, there were personal computers in 1989, it wasn’t natural for some people to do everything on the computer. Linda having a hand written list is not surprising. 
 

Back to the rest of the show.  There are sometimes where I feel sorry for Betty. I just want to yell at the judge, “Can’t you see what Dan is doing?”  However, Betty really needed someone to rein in her behavior.  Unfortunately she pushed everyone away, so she was basically out of control.  I think she may be better off in jail - she’s provided for, has a roof over her head, and she can’t really make crazy decisions. 

[Elizzikra]

9 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

We had an Apple IIgs in the late 80s.  I looked up the cost of the higher end version, and it was around $1,300.00, which would be close to $3,000.00 in today's money.  I can't imagine there would have been much of a market for a PC that cost up to $10,000.00. 

 

I mean, when your ex is driving her car into your living room when she knows the kids are home, you might feel she has given up the high ground. 

Maybe I'm misremembering - I knew a family that bought two computers, one PC and one mac and spent upwards of $10,000. Each had a printer and also purchased word processing software and maybe a couple of games?

[mamadrama]

12 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

Maybe I'm misremembering - I knew a family that bought two computers, one PC and one mac and spent upwards of $10,000. Each had a printer and also purchased word processing software and maybe a couple of games?

And a very basic Print Shop! Our computer paper was the kind that came perforated. I used to make banners and then use markers to color in each little grayscale rectangle. Sometimes the banner would be 6 feet long. That's how teachers kept us busy in the. 80's.

50 minutes ago, Snickerdoodle said:

I agree that they could have had a computer.  I think what we have to remember is that using the computer wasn’t second nature to a lot of people then.  Another thing I think of is back then we were taught to write a rough draft on paper first, and then type it up.  I started high school in 1990, and I can remember composing a first draft of anything on the computer was discouraged.  Even in 2002 when I started teaching some of my colleagues were opposed to having students compose using the computer.  It was hand write the rough draft, then type.  My point is while yes, there were personal computers in 1989, it wasn’t natural for some people to do everything on the computer. Linda having a hand written list is not surprising. 
 

Back to the rest of the show.  There are sometimes where I feel sorry for Betty. I just want to yell at the judge, “Can’t you see what Dan is doing?”  However, Betty really needed someone to rein in her behavior.  Unfortunately she pushed everyone away, so she was basically out of control.  I think she may be better off in jail - she’s provided for, has a roof over her head, and she can’t really make crazy decisions. 

Yeah, I have no idea if they had a computer, how skilled they may have been on it, or what they may have used it for. I was just replying to the price convo.

[Mrs. Hanson]

It makes perfect sense to me that she was managing her wedding planning with paper and pen. 

Not gonna lie:  I am 100 percent comfy on a computer, and when I remarried in 2017 I used all paper and pencil. First time bride in 1994....computers were not a commonplace thing.

 

[txhorns79]

32 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

First time bride in 1994....computers were not a commonplace thing.

My best example is this: For my brother's 1987 Bar Mitzvah, my mother used the computer to keep track of RSVPs and to do table assignments.  I know this because we found all the printouts when helping my parents move to a new home in 2008.  My only point being that if my mother (who had to be taught how a modem worked) was using that in 1987, it would be a sign to me that using PCs to help organize events was well into the mainstream.       

 

2 hours ago, Snickerdoodle said:

Back to the rest of the show.  There are sometimes where I feel sorry for Betty. I just want to yell at the judge, “Can’t you see what Dan is doing?”  However, Betty really needed someone to rein in her behavior.  Unfortunately she pushed everyone away, so she was basically out of control.  I think she may be better off in jail - she’s provided for, has a roof over her head, and she can’t really make crazy decisions. 

You know, I think the Judge did get what Dan was doing because there were times when the Judge shut Dan's lawyer down.  I just think at some point, Betty's actions probably overwhelmed him.  I mean, heck, even with this episode, Betty was given the chance to come clean about the guest list, and had her attorney lie to the Court before Betty realized the Judge was not buying it and she was going to be financially punished. 

[Armchair Critic]

1 hour ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

First time bride in 1994....computers were not a commonplace thing.

Same here, was married in 1994 and use pen and paper. Didn't get a personal computer until 1997. What's funny is that in high school we were taught on a word processor and I hated it, but went on to become a graphic designer and now spend my life on the computer.

[mamadrama]

8 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

My best example is this: For my brother's 1987 Bar Mitzvah, my mother used the computer to keep track of RSVPs and to do table assignments.  I know this because we found all the printouts when helping my parents move to a new home in 2008.  My only point being that if my mother (who had to be taught how a modem worked) was using that in 1987, it would be a sign to me that using PCs to help organize events was well into the mainstream.       

 

You know, I think the Judge did get what Dan was doing because there were times when the Judge shut Dan's lawyer down.  I just think at some point, Betty's actions probably overwhelmed him.  I mean, heck, even with this episode, Betty was given the chance to come clean about the guest list, and had her attorney lie to the Court before Betty realized the Judge was not buying it and she was going to be financially punished. 

The computer thing is a real interesting (off)topic. I'm 40, small Appalachian town, and most everyone I knew had a computer by the mid-90s. We had a huge computer lab in middle school (92-94) and I had girlfriends in 94/95 who were "meeting" guys online in rudimentary chatrooms. My first article was written in Word Perfect and published in 94. My first laptop was in 95, 4 inches thick, and weighed a ton. We got our scanner in 96 and I spent a week making posters of Leonardo DiCaprio and Ed Norton. It's interesting how, once again, we've all had different experiences and there isn't really a general consensus. Like @Mrs. Hanson, though, there's still some things I do by hand. Especially lists that I'm still adding to. 

I do think that judge would've been more sympathetic to Betty if she hadn't been so batshit crazy. Every time something happened in her favor she'd find a way to fuck it up. At times it seemed like he WANTED to help her out.

With Amanda Peet I'm getting Sick Betty, but I miss Meredith Baxter's Angry Betty. She's still Betty to me. 

Also, whoever said that Real Betty reminds them of Laura from 90 Day Fiance is spot on. I can't unsee it. 

[geauxaway]

This is kinda off topic, but as a huge CFB fan I can’t help but laugh because there probably will be no Shillelagh this year because Notre Dame is as cocky as Dan Broderick 🤣.   I wonder if Betty still watches every ND game. I mean they’re on NBC, they do get that in prison.  

[Elizzikra]

1 hour ago, geauxaway said:

This is kinda off topic, but as a huge CFB fan I can’t help but laugh because there probably will be no Shillelagh this year because Notre Dame is as cocky as Dan Broderick 🤣.   I wonder if Betty still watches every ND game. I mean they’re on NBC, they do get that in prison.  

Will there even be college football this year? Do we know that yet?

Quote

Also, whoever said that Real Betty reminds them of Laura from 90 Day Fiance is spot on. I can't unsee it. 

They say everyone has a twin somewhere.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Elizzikra

[geauxaway]

1 minute ago, Elizzikra said:

Will there even be college football this year? Do we know that yet?

Not sure for sure but looks like if there is, it’s all going to be conference play only.  Sorry Notre Dame 😳🤷🏻‍♀️.   

[Starlight925]

Re:  Betty's vulgar over-talking with the Notre Dame fan at the bar.

Reminded me of a Clara Harris story.  (Clara Harris hired a private investigator to follow her husband, and when his affair was found out, he begged & pleaded Clara to take him back, only to go back to the affair.  Clara took his young teen daughter to the hotel where she knew they'd be, and ran him over in the parking lot, while his daughter watched).

I met a dentist who had to speak to Clara Harris, who is now in prison, about a patient that Clara Harris had treated (remember, Clara Harris was a dentist).  The dentist I met called Clara to discuss the patient, and Clara Harris went off on a whole story about how she's misunderstood, how no one knows what it's like to be left by her husband like that, etc.  The dentist kept trying to get her back on track, to discuss this specific patient, and even years later, with Clara Harris sitting in prison, she couldn't get off the track of how misunderstood she was.  The dentist was very uncomfortable and finally said goodbye.  Reminds me so much of the mind of Betty Broderick.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Sterling

[Persnickety1]

16 minutes ago, Sterling said:

Re:  Betty's vulgar over-talking with the Notre Dame fan at the bar.

Reminded me of a Clara Harris story.  (Clara Harris hired a private investigator to follow her husband, and when his affair was found out, he begged & pleaded Clara to take him back, only to go back to the affair.  Clara took his young teen daughter to the hotel where she knew they'd be, and ran him over in the parking lot, while his daughter watched).

I met a dentist who had to speak to Clara Harris, who is now in prison, about a patient that Clara Harris had treated (remember, Clara Harris was a dentist).  The dentist I met called Clara to discuss the patient, and Clara Harris went off on a whole story about how she's misunderstood, how no one knows what it's like to be left by her husband like that, etc.  The dentist kept trying to get her back on track, to discuss this specific patient, and even years later, with Clara Harris sitting in prison, she couldn't get off the track of how misunderstood she was.  The dentist was very uncomfortable and finally said goodbye.  Reminds me so much of the mind of Betty Broderick.

Clara was released in 2018 after serving 15 years.  

She was another unfortunate woman who had a prick for a husband.  

Edited July 11, 2020 by Persnickety1

[Starlight925]

21 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

Clara was released in 2018 after serving 15 years.  

She was another unfortunate woman who had a prick for a husband.  

Ahhh, I missed that she was released.  
Appreciate the update. 
Looks like Betty will spend her life in prison. 

[Persnickety1]

3 hours ago, Sterling said:

Ahhh, I missed that she was released.  
Appreciate the update. 
Looks like Betty will spend her life in prison. 

I believe Clara was truly remorseful and there was little to no premeditation in her actions that night.

Betty, OTOH, will likely never show remorse because she doesn't have any, and quite a bit of premeditation went into her acts that night.  I don't anticipate her ever being released.  She continues to be her own worst enemy in many ways.

Both of them really tragic situations.  😞  

[2dogmom]

her long term younger boyfriend/companion isn't mentioned in this series, she wasn't sitting around crying herself to sleep alone. 

 

 

 

 

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Opening scene:

Betty Takes Extreme Action

Betty Gets The Stolen Journal Back

Linda Changes Voicemail To Irk Betty