The Bachelor Season 25: Spoilers and Speculation

[catrice2]

1 hour ago, Thumper said:

Wait ... what is the “current scandal?”

The contestant on there that allegedly has posted and participated in racist behavior after they pledged to vet contestants more closely..

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by catrice2

[catrice2]

Now I find out Matt and Tyler....in addition to the TikToks this summer are continuing to run around maskless.  I, for one, am glad if he did choose Rachael. Most of the other girls are way out of his league from what I have read.....and they both deserve each other because they have a lot of growth to do. 

Besides I have heard Gonzo, Frozone and Stephon (steve urkel from family matters) and I can't unsee it.  Like his buddy Tyler, nice physique, but not really attractive. Also your actions can really make you unappealing.  At this point, does he have a job? 

At this point the girl who left is looking like a genius. 

How much longer until the apology tour and the promise to "learn" begins so that they can get on to the business of making money from "believers?"  

I am sure her Insta numbers have increased similar to the country singer who was caught saying racist things....because these days that is a clear show of support. 

[EllenB]

If Matt picks Rachel, then discovers her racist tendencies, will he take as long to break up with her as Becca did with Garrett? In this incestuous Bachelor world, will Garrett and Rachel find each other and raise a family of Proud Boys? Will Matt and Becca join forces (and hearts) and blandly try to make the world a better place, or at least instagram better?

[catrice2]

1 hour ago, EllenB said:

If Matt picks Rachel, then discovers her racist tendencies, will he take as long to break up with her as Becca did with Garrett? In this incestuous Bachelor world, will Garrett and Rachel find each other and raise a family of Proud Boys? Will Matt and Becca join forces (and hearts) and blandly try to make the world a better place, or at least instagram better?

Just read up on Garrett and this is funny ....and yes I think that is a possibility.  

[DEL901]

Harrison had to apologize 

https://people.com/tv/chris-harrison-apologizes-perpetuates-racism-addressing-bachelor-contestant-rachael-kirkconnell-controversy/

[alexa]

22 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Harrison had to apologize 

https://people.com/tv/chris-harrison-apologizes-perpetuates-racism-addressing-bachelor-contestant-rachael-kirkconnell-controversy/

I have a question, and I apologize if it makes me look naive or having a lack of understanding.  I know some of the things Rachel has done have been more obvious, but wearing an antebellum gown for college a few years ago?  I guess I just don't think people wear old style clothes with the intention of the full value of those times.  My guess is that they feel like they are wearing old style clothing.  I am not sure what she wore when she was dressed as a native American, but I thought the issue was more when you were misrepresenting a population.  I know we have moved away from wearing certain things as costumes, but my feeling is that many people wearing that type of thing are wearing it for the type of outfit/costume.  Again, I am not trying to minimize it, and moving forward it is best to avoid any of this--I just am not sure these two specific examples speak badly about her.  I think she had other situations that were more at issue.

It just gets to be difficult if we judge everyone based on what they wore at a time when people were less aware.

[LBS]

2 hours ago, alexa said:

I have a question, and I apologize if it makes me look naive or having a lack of understanding.  I know some of the things Rachel has done have been more obvious, but wearing an antebellum gown for college a few years ago?  I guess I just don't think people wear old style clothes with the intention of the full value of those times.  My guess is that they feel like they are wearing old style clothing.  I am not sure what she wore when she was dressed as a native American, but I thought the issue was more when you were misrepresenting a population.  I know we have moved away from wearing certain things as costumes, but my feeling is that many people wearing that type of thing are wearing it for the type of outfit/costume.  Again, I am not trying to minimize it, and moving forward it is best to avoid any of this--I just am not sure these two specific examples speak badly about her.  I think she had other situations that were more at issue.

I don’t think you need to apologize for not knowing.  However it’s more than just dressing up.  The ‘Old South’ parties perpetuate the myth of the benevolent confederacy while ignoring the real cruelty and inhumanity of what the antebellum south was.  Those parties were actually banned from campuses so it is also not like they didn’t know it was wrong.  They purposefully went out and participated in harmful stereotypes.   

[alexa]

33 minutes ago, LBS said:

I don’t think you need to apologize for not knowing.  However it’s more than just dressing up.  The ‘Old South’ parties perpetuate the myth of the benevolent confederacy while ignoring the real cruelty and inhumanity of what the antebellum south was.  Those parties were actually banned from campuses so it is also not like they didn’t know it was wrong.  They purposefully went out and participated in harmful stereotypes.   

That is what I wasn't sure of.... was it being done at the time knowing that or people cluelessly dressing up.  I understand what you are saying and that makes perfect sense!

[LakeGal]

I am surprised that Chris Harrison mentions that Rachael is not at the WTA taping.  He pretty much gave away that she makes the final 2.  He usually does not do that.  

[leighdear]

How can anybody over the age of 12 NOT know that slaves were used on plantations in the South?  And that it was BAD.  And we've known that for decades.  And pretending to be those people is BAD.  Because slavery was so BAD that it was abolished.  

The schools outlawed the events.  They knew it was BAD.  That's why you will never, ever, ever see a black person in any of those photos.  Because the concept is horribly racist.  And the "kids" had to take the events off campus.  Because they knew it was horribly racist.  Their parents knew too.

Rachel knew.  Even at 18, she knew.  She's from freakin' GEORGIA!  

Hell, I'm not even watching this season, but there's enough in the media to tell me what's obvious.  

I can't even defend Chris Harrison's defense of her, and that hurts.  Because he knows she knew it was wrong.  I don't adore him anymore.

 

[Kiss my mutt]

I’d love Rachel Lindsay to interview Rachael Kirkconnell. 

[alexa]

1 hour ago, leighdear said:

How can anybody over the age of 12 NOT know that slaves were used on plantations in the South?  And that it was BAD.  And we've known that for decades.  And pretending to be those people is BAD.  Because slavery was so BAD that it was abolished.  

The schools outlawed the events.  They knew it was BAD.  That's why you will never, ever, ever see a black person in any of those photos.  Because the concept is horribly racist.  And the "kids" had to take the events off campus.  Because they knew it was horribly racist.  Their parents knew too.

Rachel knew.  Even at 18, she knew.  She's from freakin' GEORGIA!  

Hell, I'm not even watching this season, but there's enough in the media to tell me what's obvious.  

I can't even defend Chris Harrison's defense of her, and that hurts.  Because he knows she knew it was wrong.  I don't adore him anymore.

 

I guess the reason I was asking is because sometimes certain aspects are glamourized, kind of like the Gone with the Wind phenomena type thing, etc.  So I picture some people thinking of period wear and nothing about what happened there.  But I get it, and I am not justifying their actions.  Just a thought that came to my mind.  

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, leighdear said:

I can't even defend Chris Harrison's defense of her, and that hurts.  Because he knows she knew it was wrong.  I don't adore him anymore.

I posted in the media thread but I actually don't think he knew it was wrong.  A lot of people have had the privilege of never having to examine what those parties are glorifying.   He acted like this was all brand new information.

To be clear, that doesn't make it better but I think his defense of Rachel's ignorance was defense of his own while also trying to shirk personal responsibility for never thinking about it.

[Crashcourse]

I think it will be interesting to see Rachael's family on the hometown date, how they react to Matt, and vice versa.

[catrice2]

6 hours ago, alexa said:

That is what I wasn't sure of.... was it being done at the time knowing that or people cluelessly dressing up.  I understand what you are saying and that makes perfect sense!

Yes, the chapter banned them in 2016 with an explanation of why and they had it anyway.  Even if the chapter hadn't banned it, at what age are you aware that racism exists?  At some of those parties (don't know about this one) they literally had some people in black face. Let's take away them calling it an Old South affair.  Are you saying at 21 she didn't know what a plantation was and what happened there?   I can totally understand that not everyone is aware of everything but the odds are against her not knowing what she was doing. 

[catrice2]

3 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I’d love Rachel Lindsay to interview Rachael Kirkconnell. 

 I would love for that NOT to happen .  Why? 

Because I am tired of them trotting RL out as their unpaid diversity consultant and putting a target on her back. 

Because I am tired of Black people being put in the situation where they have to talk and ask about painful and uncomfortable things 

Because I am tired of when they do talk about these thing (asked or unasked)  they are labeled as aggressive , angry, problematic and unforgiving. 

Nah for once let this be someone else's burden.   

Besides, doesn't Rachel and now her husband still work for Podcast affiliated with this franchise?  Rachel knows there is a lot further she can go about their foolery, but she holds back some.  I would expect her to be fair and ask some tough questions, but still not go in on MATT and Racheal the way someone else might. 

[catrice2]

5 hours ago, leighdear said:

How can anybody over the age of 12 NOT know that slaves were used on plantations in the South?  And that it was BAD.  And we've known that for decades.  And pretending to be those people is BAD.  Because slavery was so BAD that it was abolished.  

The schools outlawed the events.  They knew it was BAD.  That's why you will never, ever, ever see a black person in any of those photos.  Because the concept is horribly racist.  And the "kids" had to take the events off campus.  Because they knew it was horribly racist.  Their parents knew too.

Rachel knew.  Even at 18, she knew.  She's from freakin' GEORGIA!  

Hell, I'm not even watching this season, but there's enough in the media to tell me what's obvious.  

I can't even defend Chris Harrison's defense of her, and that hurts.  Because he knows she knew it was wrong.  I don't adore him anymore.

 

Thank you.  I am tired of people defending what can't be defended. Being from Texas, being white  or "insert" is no excuse for Chris. It is not just what he said, it is how he said it.   The number of "whistles" that were in his speech was astounding.  Since this franchise has been dealing with accusations of racial issues for years, and since he is a producer, HE of all people should have been "doing the work" regardless of whether or not there as a RESURGANCE of the attention on Black Lives this past summer.  I say it that way because he seems to think it wasn't an issue until last summer, when many, many events happened long before then and even long before  2018 when she allegedly went to this party. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by catrice2

[leighdear]

Chris Harrison was raised in Texas, went to college in Oklahoma and was in a fraternity, Kappa Sigma in the 90's.  Not Kappa Alpha, but I guarantee he knew about those events, even if he never went to one. Greek life is insular and connected. 

I'm convinced hHe knew about them.  I just don't think he's so stupid or unaware as to NOT know. 

[Lemons]

4 hours ago, alexa said:

I guess the reason I was asking is because sometimes certain aspects are glamourized, kind of like the Gone with the Wind phenomena type thing, etc.  So I picture some people thinking of period wear and nothing about what happened there.  But I get it, and I am not justifying their actions.  Just a thought that came to my mind.  

What did the Black guests dress as?  Mammy or Prissy? 

He was not even embarrassed to claim that it was a different era all the way back 2.5 years ago.   

[alexa]

1 hour ago, Lemons said:

What did the Black guests dress as?  Mammy or Prissy? 

He was not even embarrassed to claim that it was a different era all the way back 2.5 years ago.   

I wasn’t excusing it or him.  I was just asking some general questions to get a better understanding and it makes sense to me why it is an issue.

[LBS]

5 hours ago, leighdear said:

Chris Harrison was raised in Texas, went to college in Oklahoma and was in a fraternity, Kappa Sigma in the 90's.  Not Kappa Alpha, but I guarantee he knew about those events, even if he never went to one. Greek life is insular and connected. 

This is from DateCard Instagram. Chris is obviously deflecting.

[catrice2]

1 minute ago, LBS said:

This is from DateCard Instagram. Chris is obviously deflecting.

Makes perfect sense .....but of course according to him that was BEFORE we were looking at things from a "lens." 

[LBS]

5 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I would love for that NOT to happen .  Why? 

Because I am tired of them trotting RL out as their unpaid diversity consultant and putting a target on her back. 

Because I am tired of Black people being put in the situation where they have to talk and ask about painful and uncomfortable things 

Because I am tired of when they do talk about these thing (asked or unasked)  they are labeled as aggressive , angry, problematic and unforgiving. 

Nah for once let this be someone else's burden.   

Thank you @catrice2 .  It should not always be on Rachel or Taylor or Mike Johnson or every BIPOC on this show/life in general  to bear the brunt of recognizing, calling out, and educating about racism.  I’m white and I’ve been listening and learning my entire life and course correcting.  
 

 

[chocolatine]

Rachael has issued an apology on her IG. It sounds like it was written by a publicist, but at least she's admitting that what she did was wrong, which is more than can be said about Garrett.

[Dejana]

All Chris had to do was say that Rachael attending the plantation ball was bad, but he wants to hear what she has to say for herself before writing her off completely. Harrison has a long history of questionable racial comments about the franchise through the years without really being called on it, and I guess he thought this interview would be more of the same. 

Reality Steve has implied Rachael has wanted to address the controversy for weeks but the show wasn't letting her and/or wanted to limit her to 100 words and it had to be approved by TPTB first. Other ex-contestants have said nothing in the contract would prevent them from addressing things that happened before the show. Whatever the truth is, Rachael released her apology and it undercuts the Chris Harrison "nobody knew racism was bad 5 years ago in 2018" defense. I wonder if she went rogue? The women of color from the season also released a statement about Chris and broader racism in the franchise (they've posted it to their individual social media accounts). It's one thing for Bachelor Nation alumni to comment but another for people still in the farm system, hoping for spots on Paradise. I guess TPTB can't sue them all...

I wonder if all this media controversy surrounding Rachael makes it more obvious to the non-spoiled that she is F1 (even more than Matt telling her that he was falling in love halfway into the season, lol). If she'd just been Top 9, they would happily throw her under the bus, instead of trying (and failing) to sweep her racist history under the rug.

Somewhere, the UnREAL writers are saying, "I told you so!"

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Dejana

[leighdear]

7 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Makes perfect sense .....but of course according to him that was BEFORE we were looking at things from a "lens." 

Those lenses obviously only appear AFTER you leave college, because no way any college kid could POSSIBLY have taken any US history courses to actually get IN to college and learn about slavery in the old South.  Idiot.  

Good for Diggy not buying what Chris is trying to sell.  It's too damn transparent.  

[seacliffsal]

I really hate the idea that so many people try to "sell" that we (as a culture) have only learned that racism exists and is bad within the last 3-5 years along with the idea that when one is younger they are exempt from all responsibility for their actions and beliefs.  I am older and have known racism is wrong my entire life-especially having lived through the 1960s and beyond (plus my parents continually tried to teach us about the 'wrongness' of racism [along with other issues]).  Too many people try to justify their recent activities with "I didn't know..."  The other thing that irks me is that while in school, too many students and their families have the idea that their history classes do not matter and are therefore unimportant (former history teacher here).  No-history classes is where we learn about historical interactions and efforts to reform beliefs, actions, and policies.

[Jeanne222]

18 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

I think it will be interesting to see Rachael's family on the hometown date, how they react to Matt, and vice versa.

Yes I too have thought of how that is going to work out.  I'm sure everybody will be watching for any and all reactions.

[UMAngela]

54 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Yes I too have thought of how that is going to work out.  I'm sure everybody will be watching for any and all reactions.

I wouldn’t be surprised if her hometown date was re-edited to cut out any questionable reactions and drama. It’s going to be all smiles and no tough questions. 

[chocolatine]

8 minutes ago, UMAngela said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if her hometown date was re-edited to cut out any questionable reactions and drama. It’s going to be all smiles and no tough questions. 

We don't even know if her parents will show up for the hometown date. On the most recent Bachelorette season, which also had an onsite "hometown week," two of the men only had siblings and/or friends there. 

[catrice2]

So glad to see so many people from the last two seasons supporting Rachel and denouncing racism, specially the men of Tayshia's season.  The former alums only posted something after they were called out except for a few.  (edited to add that I don't think anyone has to support and I personally don't care if they don't, that should be a choice). I also hope the people who posted did so because it is what they felt, not because they felt pressured to. They should be free to support whatever they want or don't.   What I would like to see from here is POC starting to move away from trying to be contestants on the show.  I am also interested to see if they will air a final rose of Matt supporting and defending a racist that is "working on herself." 

Also, happy that Rachel has said she is leaving this franchise. Although I have never respected her decision to participate, and I find some of her comments contradicting, I have always felt that she has received undeserved hate for speaking the truth.  If she follows through I am thrilled that she finally realized that the franchise cares nothing about her except as a token representation.   Luckily she was able to find an authentic partner in it all,  in spite of all the roadblocks (Lee, too young men, men who did not date black women) they put in her way, and the situations to humiliate her ( Demario) things they did not do to other leads.  Not mention the edit of the "angry black woman" and not showing more of what from all told was a real love story with Bryan to make it seems as if she was totally conflicted with Peter to prop him as the next lead.   

Her take on the conversation with Chris Harrison just confirmed what I knew she was feeling in those moments and the comment about how yes, they had conversations before (which he led you to believe were great friends talking about serious issues) and that is why she let him talk, because she was not surprised, she was only surprised that he would say them in public and she wanted him to expose himself.   She also knew that if she reacted she would be the angry blackk woman. This only underscores what he did....used his power over her in her place of work knowing she could  not push back..

From accounts, it sounds like they are  currently doing  the same with with another white female on the show, propping her for the next lead and making her a hero  at the expense of showing info on other women who have stories. I saw a graphic that shows screen time per person and it is very telling. It will be interesting if the continue with their plan to have her as the new lead. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by catrice2

[EllenB]

11 hours ago, catrice2 said:

So glad to see so many people from the last two seasons supporting Rachel and denouncing racism, specially the men of Tayshia's season.  The former alums only posted something after they were called out except for a few.   What I would like to see from here is POC starting to move away from trying to be contestants on the show.  I am also interested to see if they will air a final rose of Matt supporting and defending a racist that is "working on herself." 

Also, happy that Rachel has said she is leaving this franchise. Although I have never respected her decision to participate, and I find some of her comments contradicting, I have always felt that she has received undeserved hate for speaking the truth.  If she follows through I am thrilled that she finally realized that the franchise cares nothing about her except as a token representation.   Luckily she was able to find an authentic partner in it all,  in spite of all the roadblocks (Lee, too young men, men who did not date black women) they put in her way, and the situations to humiliate her ( Demario) things they did not do to other leads.  Not mention the edit of the "angry black woman" and not showing more of what from all told was a real love story with Bryan to make it seems as if she was totally conflicted with Peter to prop him as the next lead.   

Her take on the conversation with Chris Harrison just confirmed what I knew she was feeling in those moments and the comment about how yes, they had conversations before (which he led you to believe were great friends talking about serious issues) and that is why she let him talk, because she was not surprised, she was only surprised that he would say them in public and she wanted him to expose himself.   She also knew that if she reacted she would be the angry blackk woman. This only underscores what he did....used his power over her in her place of work knowing she could  not push back..

From accounts, it sounds like they are  currently doing  the same with with another white female on the show, propping her for the next lead and making her a hero  at the expense of showing info on other women who have stories. I saw a graphic that shows screen time per person and it is very telling. It will be interesting if the continue with their plan to have her as the new lead. 

The current Raechael (or however she spells it) and Chris Harrison both remind me of politicians who apologize, not because they think they were wrong, but because they were caught.

I think the show has painted itself into a corner now and whoever they pick as the lead for the next few seasons of both franchises, whether a white person or a person of color, it's going to be damned if they do, damned if they don't.  They were so artificial and heavy-handed with finally having Black leads rather than doing it earlier and more naturally, that it's always going to look like tokenism on their part. And that makes it tough for white leads in the near future, too, since they'll be under scrutiny for every move and word that they might not otherwise deserve to be. It will make an unnatural situation even more bizarre. Maybe the geezer version is an attempt to avoid it.

Edited February 13, 2021 by EllenB

[catrice2]

12 hours ago, EllenB said:

The current Rachael (or however she spells it) and Chris Harrison both remind me of politicians who apologize, not because they think they were wrong, but because they were caught.

I think the show has painted itself into a corner now and whoever they pick as the lead for the next few seasons of both franchises, whether a white person or a person of color, it's going to be damned if they do, damned if they don't.  They were so artificial and heavy-handed with finally having Black leads rather than doing it earlier and more naturally, that it's always going to look like tokenism on their part. And that makes it tough for white leads in the near future, too, since they'll be under scrutiny for every move and word that they might not otherwise deserve to be. It will make an unnatural situation even more bizarre. Maybe the geezer version is an attempt to avoid it.

@EllenB Yes.  Casting leads of color in response to BLM, (especially Matt because it was so clear he was chosen because of his Tyler/Hanna proximity) was not a good look.  Everything was done in haste. Also Tayshia lucked up and hopefully found love, but the lackluster dates, etc. was unfair to her when we see how creative they have been with Matt.  The POC got the cut rate, budget seasons.  

Again, the show may have advised Rachael not to speak, but she could have spoken on her social media without violating her contract That has been confirmed. .  Sure she may have been scared, but it would have been way better for her if she had done it earlier rather than waiting until more things came out, and after the Chris debacle.  Sometimes you just have to have courage.  Now it does just seem to be not authentic, even though she may mean every word.  Since Rachel said that after  the interview Chris sent her a text basically thinking it went well and saying, "I might get a little flack" but dismissing it, then I absolutely think his is not genuine.   The truth is that they thought that once they showed the "love story" it would go away and she would make some reference to it on the ATFR and everyone would say, "ooh she's changed," and then move on.  

You know I am not for him being fired. I actually have no time for people like that.  If people want to support people like that then let them. Sure they can change and I hope they do.  If it is authentic you just do the work in private, not to appease others or change a public persona for monetary reasons,  but because YOU think it is the right thing to do and because you want to.  Personally I respect people more who let you know who they are and stand by that instead of pretending to be something they are not. The fact is Rachael should never have been on the show if they were really vetting people which makes me wonder if it was intentional?   She is just a symptom of a larger disease.  You also can't make or shame people into doing the things.  Sending mean comments, etc. does nothing but make them think  are right and makes them defensive. The best you can do is ignore them. 

If she is the final pick even if she does change clearly her family has not. So Matt wants to have children with a recovering racist and expose them to active racists in laws and extended friends and family?   Everyone keeps saying but they are ok with him.....they are ok with him because it brings their daughter fame and money.....if he was just some random man of color....hmmmm

[Crashcourse]

It's just a show.  If Rachael's selected, she and Matt will probably go their separate ways after it's over.  Even if they stay together, I don't care.  It's their life and their business what they do with it.  

[catrice2]

Chris' stepping aside for the AFTR will only make certain people madder.  I doubt his reason is about doing the work and more that he didn't want to have to ask Rachael about the topic.  Or that after his debacle production decided he could not be impartial when he did. He was going to be in a no win situation and they realized it. If he asked her tough questions the larger audience was going to be mad, if he ignored it another segment mad, and if he asked someone would say he didn't ask enough.  I don't, however, want to see Rachel L. step in. That would really infuriate people.  Or even Tayshia for that matter. 

I don't care about Matt and Rachael that was speculation.  I do believe, however that most POC do not want to sit and watch a Black man  defend a racist...not in the climate of today.   All these people keep saying "its just a show" are the same people who care about these people's "journeys" and make them wealthy for posting on Instagram.   It is a a show that clearly has a large influence over a number of people  and if it continues to perpetuate stereotypes it is part of the problem as most shows on television are. As long as people say, "well that's just the way it is" then it will never change. 

And even though Rachel asked him one question and Chris went on a largely unanswered tirade...a question I might add that since it is a show based on topics any interviewer in her shoes would have.......people are blaming her and a Taylor Nolan? for his stepping aside.   As if they have that kind of power.... Chris spoke freely and this is on him. 

 

 

[Mu Shu]

I knew Michelle was a ringer. She’s just too full of life for Matt the boring bore. 
 

Hope she’s not on Paradise. She’s too level headed for that shit. 

[rebel2u]

 @catrice2, sorry, did you say you don't watch The Bachelor?   

Edited February 14, 2021 by rebel2u
memory lapse in how to write names

[Dejana]

After the Final Rose was going to be awkward anyway, given Matt's F1, but before Chris made himself part of the story, he would have largely steered the conversation away from the elephant in the room. Now, whomever they get to host this thing will ask much tougher questions of Rachael and Matt, should he stick with her. 

 

Also, I wonder if Katie as Bachelorette is still happening? It hasn't officially been announced and picking someone who finished eleventh or whatever, when most of the Top 10 runners-up this season are BIPOC, is not a good look for the show right now. I thought they would go with Abigail, who did make a strong first impression and goes far into the season, and would also (cynically) check off a couple of diversity boxes for TPTB (deaf and also half-Asian).

 

 

[Kiss my mutt]

Let’s, not be carried away, I don’t think Tayshia’s set up was because she was a poc. I think it was just a matter of trying to figure out how to manage in a COVID-19 world. Plus, Clare, was initially chosen and she is not seen as a poc and Matt has gotten nicer surroundings and he is a poc. I think they are trying to figure out the best way to stretch the parameters to make it like past seasons and feeling more comfortable on how to handle things since they’ve had a COVID-19 era season since then.  
And honestly, I thought Tayshia’s season was one of the best because it fostered more communication and quality time, not just the flash and bang of glamorous or adventurous dates. 

[Crashcourse]

35 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

All these people keep saying "its just a show" are the same people who care about these people's "journeys" and make them wealthy for posting on Instagram. 

Not "all," and certainly not me.  Some of us just watch the show for idle, stupid entertainment, especially during this pandemic.  Kind of like watching Married At First Sight.   

Edited February 13, 2021 by Crashcourse

[luvbadtv]

2 hours ago, catrice2 said:

 

The fact is Rachael should never have been on the show if they were really vetting people which makes me wonder if it was intentional?   She is just a symptom of a larger disease.  You also can't make or shame people into doing the things.  Sending mean comments, etc. does nothing but make them think  are right and makes them defensive. The best you can do is ignore them. 

If she is the final pick even if she does change clearly her family has not. So Matt wants to have children with a recovering racist and expose them to active racists in laws and extended friends and family?   Everyone keeps saying but they are ok with him.....they are ok with him because it brings their daughter fame and money.....if he was just some random man of color....hmmmm

Perhaps the vetting was done by CH or a different white male.  Through his "lens" he would not see any problem with her past behavior / posts.

[catrice2]

34 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Let’s, not be carried away, I don’t think Tayshia’s set up was because she was a poc. I think it was just a matter of trying to figure out how to manage in a COVID-19 world. Plus, Clare, was initially chosen and she is not seen as a poc and Matt has gotten nicer surroundings and he is a poc. I think they are trying to figure out the best way to stretch the parameters to make it like past seasons and feeling more comfortable on how to handle things since they’ve had a COVID-19 era season since then.  
And honestly, I thought Tayshia’s season was one of the best because it fostered more communication and quality time, not just the flash and bang of glamorous or adventurous dates. 

Who is carried away? I am not suggesting that anyone was "set up" because they are a person of color, what I SAID was that the POC got the budget seasons. They had waited that long to have one, why give them the seasons where they could not travel?  Why not wait until  it was the "full" experience?   They could  have given both seasons a lot more consideration.   I SAID that they did it as a backlash to the climate and they got short changed.   Also, when Clare was chosen it was not COVID.    Matt got a nicer surrounding because they learned from Tayshia/Claire's season.  

Thank you. 

[catrice2]

9 minutes ago, luvbadtv said:

Perhaps the vetting was done by CH or a different white male.  Through his "lens" he would not see any problem with her past behavior / posts.

I agree. I think Lee was a plant because his was so obvious that no vetting had been done or someone wanted him there. That's why I wonder about Racheal.   To your point however, there may indeed be a certain type of person who is in charge of certain aspects that either doesn't know better (or they pretend not to) , or they do. 

The problem is that when there was so much scrutiny last year one of the things they promised was to do a better job of vetting. 

[Jeanne222]

The climate was calling for a poc.   covid be damed and full steam ahead!

[catrice2]

59 minutes ago, rebel2u said:

At catrice2, sorry, did you say you don't watch The Bachelor?   

@rebel2u  I don't have to watch the show to comment on it.  Is that a rule of this board?  The board said "speculating."  It is all over pop culture and I have friends that watch it.  You can't get away from it or the "Real Housewives " of anything.  Do I have to watch the show to know it has a problem with race?   Do I have to watch the show to know that  in my opinion it sets a bad example for young girls and boys that I work with every day and who frequently bring up these reality shows? 

I feel that way about reality tv in general as well as Rap music.    I don't find perpetuating stereotypes and laughing at other people's bad behavior entertaining, but that is just me. For people who do, so be it.  Mindless to me is when I know people are playing a character, not thinking they actually act that way in real life.  Everyone has their own opinion.  If this was , for instance, Unreal it would be a different experience.  I think reality tv  contributes to desensitizing young people to outrageous behaviors and in some instances encouraging it, especially after they see that people are rewarded for such behaviors financially.  I don't have to watch the show to watch a clip of Chris Harrison and Rachel to know that it was a problem. 

I have watched the show for some episodes in the past, but I have never watched a season in totality.  Primarily when a POC was involved to see what happened and how they were portrayed.....so yeah, I have thoughts about it.  I also don't actively listen to rap music either, but I have thoughts about most of that as well.  People don't have to read them, or agree with them. 

[chocolatine]

Rachel Lindsay is not my favorite person, but now that CH has announced that he's "stepping aside" for the ATFR, I wouldn't mind if she hosted it and TPTB let her really grill Rachael Kirkconnell (and Matt). I doubt that's going to happen though. 

[Jeanne222]

I'd like to see Sean Lowe be the replacement for Chris Harrison!  Seems like he'd be quite good!

Edited February 13, 2021 by Jeanne222

[Kiss my mutt]

I would like to have a woman host it for awhile, like Jillian. She has her own shows and is has very good presence and maturity though I doubt she’d want to get involved in this again. I’m tired of Sean Lowe, but I think he gives level headed advice to the guys, but he likes to hear himself talk too much which could be problematic as a host. 

[leighdear]

20 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I'd like to see Sean Lowe be the replacement for Chris Harrison!  Seems like he'd be quite good!

I agree.  He's mature enough (37), married and with 3 kids.  Plus, an actual Bachelor success story.  He's personable and humorous, but can be serious.  Gravitas with a dash of goofy.  

I've always loved Sean, and think he could do a great job keeping things civil and respectful.  

[alexa]

27 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I'd like to see Sean Lowe be the replacement for Chris Harrison!  Seems like he'd be quite good!

He hosted some Bachelor related show--I can't remember what it was--the after show they did for a while?  And he wasn't all that interesting.