S04.E08: Lowkey Happy

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Issa and Lawrence catch up to discuss their lives, careers, past mistakes, and what makes each of them happy.

Promo:

Original air date: 5/31/20

[funnygirl]

Well written and executed episode, blah blah blah... I do not approve of this (re)union. 

Dammit, Issa!

 

[Momager]

Why Issa? Why???

[DearEvette]

Did that read as a reunion or closure?  There were parts that sounded like they were finally doing a post mortem on the end of their relationship. But then that ending made Issa seem optimistic.  And I am not sure.  If it is a reunion then it'll be interesting to see where Condola, who is suddenly blowing up Lawrence's phone, fits into all this.

I loved the writing in this one, kudos Natasha Rothwell.  It is nice to hear in real words how each party of a disintegrated romance saw the ending of it.  It is a given that different perspectives can color the same series of events, but for something as intimate as a dying relationship it is interesting to hear where each person saw the death throes.

As I was watching Issa and Lawrence at the art walk, I was struck by the fact that we had never seen Issa and Lawrence as a happy, functioning couple.  That bit of tonight's date felt almost like we got a glimpse of what a  pre-Season 1 Issa and Lawrence relationship looked like.

[candall]

I'm Lowkey Happy they tapped the brakes on the Lawrence Redemption Tour, but I think the writing for his character has been too weird and inconsistent.  All season he's been thoughtful and aware and tonight he's texting and talking with Condola when Issa is seconds away from walking up on it.  That's some really low-class behavior.  So is he a lowdown dog or is he the sensitive guy we saw at the baby party?

 

Issa was beautiful tonight and finally had some damn agency.  

[After7Only]

19 minutes ago, candall said:

So is he a lowdown dog or is he the sensitive guy we saw at the baby party?

I think he’s both.  He wants Issa but scared to fully commit to her, so he’s keeping Condola in the wings as a backup.   
 

[shoetingstar]

For some reason I thought this was the last episode of the season and kept waiting for other storylines to be wrapped up. So when it ended I went from shock, to confusion/anger, to relief after the preview came on. lol.

Whatever I feel about them, Lawrence and Issa have great chemistry. My favorite part was when her "ex" hook-up showed up "Brrrrrhatttt" and Lawrence kept imitating him.😂 Issa and Lawrences have the same sense of humor and just seeing them being open and honest (no eggshells) was refreshing. Not sure about the hook-up's long term consequences.

Edited June 1, 2020 by shoetingstar

[Eri]

Nice episode - I don't want them together and they hashed out their misgivings back in Season 2 but at least they kept it lowkey. I think the dinner was Lawrence's closure (asking questions, evaluating his role in their relationship), the nightcap was Issa's closure (she wanted a win once she knew Condola was still in the picture) and everything inbetween was equal ground (reminiscing, positive words of affirmation, open communication).

I thought Lawrence was lying when he said he was happy knowing what a crazy rollercoaster he's been on in the last year. Meanwhile Issa's had a lot more time to grow, assess and mature and she seemed more guarded this time around. 

The interesting backdrop  they were in at the art walk (Lawrence behind the red lights, while Issa against the blue lights) made me wonder if there was some symbolism hinted there and it reminded me of the Red Oni, Blue Oni trope:

Red Oni traits are associated with 'impetuousness, enthusiasm, willfulness, and they tend to be more people oriented' = Lawrence 

'Blue Oni traits are associated with 'serenity, control, observing authority, and they tend to be more goal-oriented' = Issa

I think Issa is now smart enough and more self aware to realise that Lawrence is no longer a possibility anymore and that it's okay.  While he seems more grounded, he still has a lot of things in his life to sort out which doesn't need her energy which is what I think her morning walk was supposed to symbolise. 

[scrb]

Way they explained it in the Wine Down, he was being polite not to completely shut off Condola.

Issa decided she was going to seize the moment, not let Lawrence meet up with Condola that night.  And he decided that he wanted her to stay.

Guess they still have a thing for each other, because he brought up Daniel but not in a way which showed he was still stung by it.  TSA Bae made him laugh, as he realized how embarrassed Issa was.

She noticed finally that Condola was trying to reach him.

So at the dinner or at the art walk she says something like she has to search for what makes her happy and then happiness is a abstract — or maybe she was just referring to the painting by that name.

But in Lawrence’s apt. she tells him that he makes her happy, to close the deal.

I guess it’s suppose to be maturation for both of them.

[candall]

18 minutes ago, After7Only said:

I think he’s both.  He wants Issa but scared to fully commit to her, so he’s keeping Condola in the wings as a backup.   
 

It slips my mind how the dinner tonight was arranged, but I got up off the couch and walked over to the tv to read the texts between Lawrence and Condola.  They had a date scheduled for "Tuesday" and she wanted to know if they could get together that night instead.  He needs to pick a damn lane and not be stringing two women along.

I did NOT like at all that he had to sneaky text Condola back while Issa was away from the table and twice he made efforts to keep Condola on the line for that night, even though he was out with Issa.

So again, I expect that sort of behavior from men who are more or less scum.  But Lawrence is cute and smart and funny. With a tastefully appointed apartment!

#######

Edited to add:

So the Wine Down explanation is that Lawrence is just being considerate of Condola?  Okay, not buying that, but from rereading my post, maybe I am being too intense about Lawrence's behavior.  Maybe "scum" is too strong--but, really, do not be engaging with a second woman while you're on a date with the first.

Edited June 1, 2020 by candall

[heavysnaxx]

33 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Did that read as a reunion or closure?  There were parts that sounded like they were finally doing a post mortem on the end of their relationship. But then that ending made Issa seem optimistic.  And I am not sure.  If it is a reunion then it'll be interesting to see where Condola, who is suddenly blowing up Lawrence's phone, fits into all this.

I loved the writing in this one, kudos Natasha Rothwell.  It is nice to hear in real words how each party of a disintegrated romance saw the ending of it.  It is a given that different perspectives can color the same series of events, but for something as intimate as a dying relationship it is interesting to hear where each person saw the death throes.

As I was watching Issa and Lawrence at the art walk, I was struck by the fact that we had never seen Issa and Lawrence as a happy, functioning couple.  That bit of tonight's date felt almost like we got a glimpse of what a  pre-Season 1 Issa and Lawrence relationship looked like.

I thought it could just as easily be either and that rang true to me. Not sure about Lawrence but Issa seemed pretty at peace on her way on home. (Nitpick: Not cool to leave your Lyft driver hangin' cause you can't wait to start your bangin'!)

Like you, I was reminded that we never saw them when their relationship was working. Their conversation at dinner - and other times - gives me reason to believe they were a good couple because they have a solid foundation of liking each other. They didn't just fall into bed in this episode, which is such a relief, story-wise.

So...I don't know what Lawrence is up to with Condola. My first thought was he's just being a typical serial-relationship dude, where he's making sure he won't be without anyone. My fear is the show will veer away from the really great character-driven relationship storytelling like this episode had and introduce a cliche Plot Obstacle, like Condola being pregnant.

 

[Hera]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

As I was watching Issa and Lawrence at the art walk, I was struck by the fact that we had never seen Issa and Lawrence as a happy, functioning couple.  That bit of tonight's date felt almost like we got a glimpse of what a  pre-Season 1 Issa and Lawrence relationship looked like.

We saw shades of it when they were chatting in the café: "Oh, so we're spoiling things now?" It was very like their riff on the Bourne films tonight. I really like their chemistry and as I said last week, I wouldn't really have a problem with them getting back together. Even in the immediate aftermath of their break-up, Lawrence wasn't as bitter about it as you might have expected. I think it was Chad who called Issa a ho, and Lawrence defended her by saying she had done "ho shit", but that she wasn't a ho. I think on some level, Lawrence always knew that he had contributed to the breakdown of his and Issa's relationship, and tonight, both he and Issa were sufficiently past it that they could talk calmly about specifics.

14 minutes ago, heavysnaxx said:

Nitpick: Not cool to leave your Lyft driver hangin' cause you can't wait to start your bangin'!

When the first started hooking up, I expected Issa to suddenly freeze up and go, "Oh shit! The Lyft!" and then rush out to dismiss him.

13 minutes ago, heavysnaxx said:

My fear is the show will veer away from the really great character-driven relationship storytelling like this episode had and introduce a cliche Plot Obstacle, like Condola being pregnant.

A couple of people have predicted in other episode threads that this was where that storyline was heading, and after this episode, I'm inclined to agree. According to the text she sent Lawrence, they had initially planned to meet up on Tuesday, which isn't exactly the night people pick for dates. The LA artwalk takes place on a Thursday (according to Google), so clearly if he had wanted to see her on Friday or Saturday night (or at any point during the weekend), nothing about his night out with Issa would have stood in the way.

For similar reasons, I'm not sure the evening out with Issa was meant to be an official date either. He may have been testing the waters with her, but they're also each other's most significant relationship to date—and definitely each other's most significant relationship of their early adulthood—so I think their chemistry and intimacy are to be expected, even if it does turn out they're broken up for good.

[Racj82]

I know that Lawrence can never win no matter what he does in some eyes but look at things in a case by case basis.

Lawrence and Issa are not actually dating or any sort of committed relationship. He can talk or kick it with anyone he wants.

Neither one of them have defined anything. They went on A date.

Lawrence doesn't know what he wants. Neither does Issa. They are figuring things out now but he had no idea where this was going to go.

Even if one were to say he should have just cut Condola off by now, we don't have the whole picture. We never truly saw what caused the end of their relationship. If it was truly related to the question of what if, it makes sense that feelings are still mixed up.

It doesn't make him a asshole or a fuck nigga. Everyone in relationships this season seems be full of conflict.

I think it's been clear all season that Issa and Lawrence have a chemistry that others can never fully match. Issa always seems more awkward with everyone else except maybe Nathan. Lawrence always seems way more stiff and on his toes with anyone that isn't Issa.

That doesn't mean they should be together but at least it shows why they made sense in the first place and could make sense now.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Racj82

[Joimiaroxeu]

Lol, Issa got a free drink for busting her ass.

Whee, that Lyft driver got all up in Issa and Lawrence's business. Issa wanted a quiet ride!

Was TSA guy's girlfriend's name  "Mazda"?

Oh, I hope Issa wasn't deliberately trying to block Condola, though Condola looked questionable to me trying to get Lawrence to come over to "talk" late at night. I'm thinking that was a booty call trying not to look like a booty call.

Did Issa have a spare set of clothes at Lawrence's apartment? I don't understand how she left the next morning in a different outfit. I guess maybe she bought the top at the art walk?

Still got money on Condola being pregnant.

[loki310]

Aw man, I enjoyed that. After the recent events it was just nice to see two beautiful black people flirt and laugh and connect with each other. I don’t care what happens next, it was just nice to see Issa stroll through View Park and Leimert on her way home and look out over the Baldwin Hills oil fields to the strains of Blood Orange. I love how this show reps my version of LA. Just beautiful. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

What I loved about this episode was how accurately it depicted an evening out with an ex. It's such a wide range, from bringing up old jokes and reverting back to that comfort level with someone who has known you for a long time to those awkward moments and the moments of temptation to fall back into old habits.

If nothing else, I hope that this night gave both Issa and Lawrence some answers about their relationship. Sometimes when things get bad, you selectively remember what happened so that you can feel like you weren't the bad guy and then after a while, what you choose to remember becomes your version of the truth. When you're fresh off of a breakup, you're still nursing your wounds but now that Issa and Lawrence have had time to get some distance, they were much more able to hear the other person's truth without being defensive. It still hurt to hear, but they were able to accept it without getting upset enough to argue about it because it was no longer about winning or being right. It was about admitting what really happened and trying to understand the other person's point of view. 

It kind of reminded me of Rob's quest in High Fidelity to contact his top five break ups and ask them what went wrong. He was looking for answers and closure. I know that isn't exactly what happened with Issa and Lawrence (and I don't think that was necessarily the intention for either of them going to this dinner) but I liked that over the course of their conversation, that's what they got. I think a lot of times when people consider a certain ex the one who got away, it's really that they never got the answers and closure that they really needed.

4 hours ago, loki310 said:

it was just nice to see Issa stroll through View Park and Leimert on her way home and look out over the Baldwin Hills oil fields to the strains of Blood Orange. I love how this show reps my version of LA. Just beautiful. 

I agree. In my lifetime, I have heard so many people complain that Los Angeles has no soul and it is too crowded/smoggy/dirty but those people have obviously not seen the real Los Angeles. Sure, there are lots of strip malls and traffic sucks, but that's true of a lot of cities in the world. There is so much art, culture, and beauty in Los Angeles. If you don't see it, that's because you aren't looking very hard.

[Irlandesa]

I enjoyed that as well and I don't have a problem with how either behaved during the evening.  I got the sense that it wasn't really set up as an official "date". Both approached as such in a way but there were a few times in the evening where it felt like they were wrapping up. 

I don't think he tried to hide the fact that Condola was  calling all that much or the fact that they were still in touch.  I think when he said his evening was wrapping up, he thought his evening was wrapping up.

In the morning after, Issa didn't really seem like a woman who necessarily thought there would be a "second" date.  There might be but she started talking about him moving to San Francisco and chose to walk him. 

I don't think she regretted the evening.  I think it was good for both of them.  But I didn't get the sense of a renewed commitment.

9 hours ago, Hera said:

We saw shades of it when they were chatting in the café: "Oh, so we're spoiling things now?" It was very like their riff on the Bourne films tonight.

I agree.  We did get a glimpse of flirtier times back then. 

[marny]

8 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Did Issa have a spare set of clothes at Lawrence's apartment? I don't understand how she left the next morning in a different outfit. I guess maybe she bought the top at the art walk?

She bought that sweatshirt at the art fair-- there was a rack of them hanging next to one of the paintings they were looking at, and she was carrying a bag with one in it when she and Lawrence were walking away. He had the painting and she had a plastic bag.

[Sheenieb]

Quote

Did that read as a reunion or closure?  There were parts that sounded like they were finally doing a post mortem on the end of their relationship. But then that ending made Issa seem optimistic.  And I am not sure.  If it is a reunion then it'll be interesting to see where Condola, who is suddenly blowing up Lawrence's phone, fits into all this.

It can go either way, but I took it more as closure. They had a mature conversation about the demise of their relationship and all their old feelings and chemistry got stirred up. I liked this episode a lot. It was nice to see them both in better mental spaces having a good time.

I teared up a bit during their postmortem conversation because I went through something similar. You lose your sense of self when you're out of work. When I was laid off, I felt like a loser. Although I was friends with/kept in contact with my team that was also laid off along with me, so I knew I wasn't alone, but seeing people going to work and doing shit while it took me a long time to find another job again was rough. It's part of the reason why my own long-term relationship suffered, so that's why I have a soft spot for Lawrence.

While he and Issa aren't together, I did think it was in poor taste that he was texting Condola while they were out. The person you're out with should have your attention, so it did come off as lowdown to be sneak texting. To be fair, he was transparent with Issa that he doesn't know where things are going to go with Condola, which, if he's honest with himself, it means he isn't interested in her. 

I'm curious as well as to why she was blowing up his phone, but I really hope it isn't a pregnancy storyline. 

Edited June 1, 2020 by Sheenieb

[DearEvette]

12 hours ago, Hera said:

Lawrence wasn't as bitter about it as you might have expected. I think it was Chad who called Issa a ho, and Lawrence defended her by saying she had done "ho shit", but that she wasn't a ho.

He may not have been immediately bitter, but he got bitter after he misinterpreted a picture of her and Daniel.  He blocked her on his social media, rolled up to Derek's birthday party with Aparna in tow and  he straight up called her a  "fuckin ho"  to her face.

 

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I agree.  We did get a glimpse of flirtier times back then. 

Yeah, I could see that.  I guess that scene in the cafe didn't quite resonate with me as much because they seemed self conscious about seeing each other at first and also it felt like a set up for Condola to see them together laughing and start her own insecure phase.

This episode with just the two of them, felt more intimate and natural.  This is the most comfortable we've seen them together (well after Lawerence's altoids mishap and Issa bustin her ass) since Issa cheated.

[RealReality]

I'm so mad at issa for proving Molly right.  

That whole thing with Lawrence was messy, messy, messy.  She knows how involved he is with condola.  Issa only offered to spend the night after he had gotten off the phone with condola.  I got the impression issa knew that he was going to see condola as soon as she left and that's why she insisted on staying.  

Not only that, there is a good possibility that Lawrence is going to move!  

So not only is he involved with someone else, he is likely moving away.  Why be intimate with him?  Such a mess!  Both of their feelings run too deep for sex not to be emotional.  

I wonder if this season will end with Molly and issa being proven right about each other.  Molly will be so miserable that she drives Andrew away and issa will end up in some mess between kinda dating two men and developing feelings for a man who is involved with someone else.  

No Latoya updates!  

 

[RealReality]

10 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I know that Lawrence can never win no matter what he does in some eyes but look at things in a case by case basis.

Lawrence and Issa are not actually dating or any sort of committed relationship. He can talk or kick it with anyone he wants.

Neither one of them have defined anything. They went on A date.

Lawrence doesn't know what he wants. Neither does Issa. They are figuring things out now but he had no idea where this was going to go.

Even if one were to say he should have just cut Condola off by now, we don't have the whole picture. We never truly saw what caused the end of their relationship. If it was truly related to the question of what if, it makes sense that feelings are still mixed up.

It doesn't make him a asshole or a fuck nigga. Everyone in relationships this season seems be full of conflict.

I think it's been clear all season that Issa and Lawrence have a chemistry that others can never fully match. Issa always seems more awkward with everyone else except maybe Nathan. Lawrence always seems way more stiff and on his toes with anyone that isn't Issa.

That doesn't mean they should be together but at least it shows why they made sense in the first place and could make sense now.

I think my only technical beef with Lawrence was about the ring.  I felt the conversation around the ring kinda made it feel like his feelings were still strong enough to want to get back together.  

If you're giving the impression you have "ring feelings" for an ex you specifically asked out because you wanted to talk about "what if" with them it can reasonably lead them to think that your thoughts are more serious than seeing someone else.  

It just felt like he was getting her hopes up or allowing her to believe that his feelings about rekindling their relationship were stronger than they were. 

[tennisgurl]

When Issa and Lawrence were bantering at dinner and at the art walk, I think I finally saw what might have been the relationship that Issa so clung to early in the show, even when it was clear their relationship was dead in the water. I am guessing that this was what they used to be like, a cute funny couple with similar senses of humor, it gives me a lot more context as to why they were together for so long even after it seemed like their relationship was basically over, it can be hard to give up something that was so good for so long. 

I liked this episode, even though I really want to move forward with Molly and Issa and their issues, especially because I have always had a bit of a soft spot for Lawrence. I think he has made a lot of mistakes and really needs to work on himself, but he is basically a good guy, and is actually trying to be better, even though I dont really think that he and Issa should be together. I think they're relationship has run its course, and any attempt to get back together would be a mistake., falling back into the familiar. I read this evening as Issa and Lawrence getting closure with each other, having a frank discussion about what went wrong in their relationship, how they are feeling now, and them sleeping together read to me more like a goodbye than starting something again, especially if he is going to probably be moving soon. They got to have one more nice night together, Lawrence got more context as to why Issa cheated and Issa more understood why Lawrence became the way he was towards the end of their relationship, and now they can hopefully move on. They always seemed to have so much unpacked baggage with each other, and especially Lawrence seemed kind of confused as to how their relationship went down the toilet so dramatically, so now with context, maybe they can get closure. 

Of course, I could be talking out of my ass right now and Lawrence and Issa are gonna get back together, or they are going to throw us a big ass drama bomb by having Condola get knocked up (please no) or Lawrence starts to revert back to his worst of season one self, but thats is what I hope this was. Speaking of Condola, I really want to know why she and Lawrence broke up, and why she ghosted Issa so suddenly. Did she break up with Lawrence because she thought he still had feelings for Issa? I found Lawrence texting Condola while hanging out with Issa to be kind of tacky, but not all that terrible. I dont think they really saw this as a real date, more like catching up and doing a sort of relationship postmortem, so I dont really see it as him trying to get with both of them in one night or something. But, again, what do I know? 

Issa running into the TSA guy she was sleeping with was hilarious, in general I thought their night out was really fun. That looked like a great night, this show does a lot to make me want to some day take a trip to LA!

[RealReality]

50 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

When Issa and Lawrence were bantering at dinner and at the art walk, I think I finally saw what might have been the relationship that Issa so clung to early in the show, even when it was clear their relationship was dead in the water. I am guessing that this was what they used to be like, a cute funny couple with similar senses of humor, it gives me a lot more context as to why they were together for so long even after it seemed like their relationship was basically over, it can be hard to give up something that was so good for so long. 

I liked this episode, even though I really want to move forward with Molly and Issa and their issues, especially because I have always had a bit of a soft spot for Lawrence. I think he has made a lot of mistakes and really needs to work on himself, but he is basically a good guy, and is actually trying to be better, even though I dont really think that he and Issa should be together. I think they're relationship has run its course, and any attempt to get back together would be a mistake., falling back into the familiar. I read this evening as Issa and Lawrence getting closure with each other, having a frank discussion about what went wrong in their relationship, how they are feeling now, and them sleeping together read to me more like a goodbye than starting something again, especially if he is going to probably be moving soon. They got to have one more nice night together, Lawrence got more context as to why Issa cheated and Issa more understood why Lawrence became the way he was towards the end of their relationship, and now they can hopefully move on. They always seemed to have so much unpacked baggage with each other, and especially Lawrence seemed kind of confused as to how their relationship went down the toilet so dramatically, so now with context, maybe they can get closure. 

Of course, I could be talking out of my ass right now and Lawrence and Issa are gonna get back together, or they are going to throw us a big ass drama bomb by having Condola get knocked up (please no) or Lawrence starts to revert back to his worst of season one self, but thats is what I hope this was. Speaking of Condola, I really want to know why she and Lawrence broke up, and why she ghosted Issa so suddenly. Did she break up with Lawrence because she thought he still had feelings for Issa? I found Lawrence texting Condola while hanging out with Issa to be kind of tacky, but not all that terrible. I dont think they really saw this as a real date, more like catching up and doing a sort of relationship postmortem, so I dont really see it as him trying to get with both of them in one night or something. But, again, what do I know? 

Issa running into the TSA guy she was sleeping with was hilarious, in general I thought their night out was really fun. That looked like a great night, this show does a lot to make me want to some day take a trip to LA!

I don't know, I sincerely hope I was wrong.  I don't think both parties had an equal understanding.  Issa looked sad when she left and I perceived that as the realization that she had just embroiled herself in some mess.  That not only was Lawrence still in touch with condola but that he was moving and that her feelings were involved.  

But, if I'm wrong and issa was just breaking it off once and for all, I'd be pleased.  However the fact that she was kinda ready to leave until she realized that Lawrence was ready to meet up with condola feels icky to me.  Condola was wrong, but somewhere in there is a human being who shouldn't be treated like a second class citizen.  

[talktoomuch]

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I think they're relationship has run its course, and any attempt to get back together would be a mistake., falling back into the familiar.

Has it though? They are both at such different and more mature places now. Even wanting to do a post mortem is a big sign of maturity. Sharing their hopes, dreams and recent realizations about themselves with no filter is another.

I mean they just turned 30. Their relationship started in college and many of those are difficult to last through the broke-ass-finding-myself 20s. Now that they're both grown and they clearly had a good foundation, would it be terrible for them to try again?

[Amethyst]

Man, as someone who was over Lawrence, this episode really highlighted why he and Issa work.  Or worked well.  Their chemistry is real, and they have all the goofy humor and inside jokes that you can only have with someone you've known a long time.  

This episode was so well-written and beautifully shot.  It's clear that Issa and Lawrence have changed, but they also make a point to show each other that they changed, like Issa with the drink and the fancy meal, and Lawrence with his impressive new apartment.  They both still care about what the other thinks. 

The unseen painting from the art walk has to factor in somewhere down the line.  There had to be a reason they didn't show it to the viewers, yet Lawrence ended up buying it.

Hope Condola isn't pregnant, but I'm definitely leaning there.  

Even though they're still great together, I'm hoping that was it for Issa and Lawrence.  No more questions, just closure.  It would be different than last time if they're both making the conscious choice to move on from each other, not just because of the break up.  But they should move on.  Especially if Lawrence gets a job in SF.

Natasha Rothwell did an excellent job with the writing.  I'm hoping she does more episodes.

Almost forgot the best part: Issa telling Lawrence that she wanted more that night.  Even if it doesn't add up to them having a future together, I loved seeing Issa take charge of her life and what she wanted.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Amethyst

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, talktoomuch said:

Has it though? They are both at such different and more mature places now. Even wanting to do a post mortem is a big sign of maturity. Sharing their hopes, dreams and recent realizations about themselves with no filter is another.

I mean they just turned 30. Their relationship started in college and many of those are difficult to last through the broke-ass-finding-myself 20s. Now that they're both grown and they clearly had a good foundation, would it be terrible for them to try again?

But the more they have changed, the more they have stayed the same, right?

Lawrence was still kinda stringing issa along knowing he was still involved, at least to some degree, with condola.  

Issa was still ready to knowingly involve herself in a situation that, at least superficially, seems messy.  She knows that Lawrence can't commit to her and she knows he is actively involved with someone else.  

She pushed to spend the night right after she realized that Lawrence was going to be with condola.  It seemed like a desperate move.  And it also seemed unnecessarily mean to condola.  

Yeah, condola fucked up.  But knowing that issa was in some quasi competition with her felt icky and messy.  

And isn't issa seeing Nathan? 

I mean no one is married and no one owes anyone anything, but it all feels very interconnected and messy.  

 

[mrsbagnet]

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

She pushed to spend the night right after she realized that Lawrence was going to be with condola.  It seemed like a desperate move.  And it also seemed unnecessarily mean to condola.

I think she decided that she wanted to stay before his call with Condola. Going to the bathroom was a stalling tactic. She didn't live that far from him, so she could have just used the bathroom at home. I think she went in there to try to figure out what she wanted to do and and to get up the courage to keep the night going.

I think their night together with closure for Issa. She left and walked home on her own because she is done with the relationship.

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by mrsbagnet

[RealReality]

24 minutes ago, mrsbagnet said:

I think she decided that she wanted to stay before his call with Condola. Going to the bathroom was a stalling tactic. She didn't live that far from him, so she could have just used the bathroom at home. I think she went in there to try to figure out what she wanted to do and and to get up the courage to keep the night going.

I think their night together with closure for Issa. She left and walked home on her own because she is done with the relationship.

 

I lowkey hope you're right and I'm wrong 🤗

Edited June 2, 2020 by RealReality

[Hera]

12 hours ago, DearEvette said:

He may not have been immediately bitter, but he got bitter after he misinterpreted a picture of her and Daniel.  He blocked her on his social media, rolled up to Derek's birthday party with Aparna in tow and  he straight up called her a  "fuckin ho"  to her face.

You're right. I must have blocked it out because that scene was so uncomfortable, even without Lawrence confronting Issa.

For me, the joking—both in the café and at the art walk—was less about flirting and more about showing us why these two might have ever made sense as a couple in the first place. It's clear they share a sense of humor—plus everything else @tennisgurl (among others) said. In the alternate universe Issa imagined at the end of Season 2, where she and Lawrence get married and have a kid, they would have used their shared sense of humor to torment their child—at least until he or she was grown up enough to find it funny and join in.

My guess is that Condola turns out to be pregnant right about the time Lawrence gets an offer for a job further north. It gives Lawrence a dilemma beyond Issa/Condola, and also gives him a narrative reason to continue to be in LA, even though it makes more career sense for him to be in the Bay Area.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Hera

[RealReality]

Oh, I meant to ask y'all insecure fam...

What do you think they were trying to say about Lizzo?  At first I was super excited because I really like Lizzo (and I liked her before she blew up).  

But then issa said that it looked like a Lizzo concert and so was she trying to say that it was a bunch of white people who attended (something I never knew, but Lizzo acknowledges).

But then the guy bumping to Lizzo was black, so then was I wrong?  

I wasn't sure what to think.  I hope it was Lizzo love!

[Amethyst]

2 hours ago, RealReality said:

I hope it was Lizzo love!

I’m sure it was.  Some of the hype has died down on Lizzo, but “Truth Hurts” was probably still on the radio regularly when they were filming this episode. 

Lizzo has a huge fan base and a lot of crossover appeal.  And “Truth Hurts” was a major hit, so I’m not surprised to see people singing along with it like they were at the bar.  

[heavysnaxx]

On 6/1/2020 at 5:35 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What I loved about this episode was how accurately it depicted an evening out with an ex.

Yeah, it was the accuracy of the emotional arc that struck me - though I realize what I'm calling accuracy is "something I went through myself." We were long-broken up, we had a reason for a catch-up chat, yada yada - it was great, warm, loving, blah blah - but I was maybe most pleased to feel zero need to have it turn into relationship 2.0. Like Issa and Lawrence, we were both single, 30-ish, and my ex had another ex page him twice (ha!) during our interlude.

I feel like the look on Issa's face on her way home showed that it was a bittersweet experience. What I saw was Issa continuing to navigate clear of potential messiness by being self-aware and adjust in the moment as she was figuring out what she wanted. Again, I think Molly's own limitations in the self-awareness area often distort Issa's greater maturity into "messiness."

It's not that Issa's maturity (or anyone's) prevents them from having some messiness or hurt feelings, and it seems like Molly conflates hurt feelings with failure. Issa, on the other hand, demonstrates that what matters more is how her mistakes precede her growth.

Truthfully, if it were Molly in Issa's position, I'd say it was a sad mistake. If it had been Molly and Dro, for example. But that's because Molly (never mind Dro) has shown a lesser capacity for self-reflection and far less generosity or grace when a relationship could use them. (Also, it's always been weird to me that Molly feels entitled to school Issa on relationships, given that Molly has no experience with a committed partner, much less one with whom she's shared a home. Not to mention her seriously fucked-up attitude toward queer people like Jared. It's like bisexuality is just too messy.)

The script's precision showed that both Issa and Lawrence were feeling their way through the evening to see what they each really wanted. They both had easy escapes at different points; they both chose to keep the evening going. Finally, Lawrence invites her in. Finally, Issa states, "I'm not ready for this evening to end." "This evening," not "our relationship."

I won't be surprised if Issa realizes she DOES want to keep going with Lawrence. But it won't seem like a reflexive, desperate gesture.

Edited June 3, 2020 by heavysnaxx

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, heavysnaxx said:

Yeah, it was the accuracy of the emotional arc that struck me - though I realize what I'm calling accuracy is "something I went through myself." We were long-broken up, we had a reason for a catch-up chat, yada yada - it was great, warm, loving, blah blah - but I was maybe most pleased to feel zero need to have it turn into relationship 2.0. Like Issa and Lawrence, we were both single, 30-ish, and my ex had another ex page him twice (ha!) during our interlude.

I feel like the look on Issa's face on her way home showed that it was a bittersweet experience. What I saw was Issa continuing to navigate clear of potential messiness by being self-aware and adjust in the moment as she was figuring out what she wanted. Again, I think Molly's own limitations in the self-awareness area often distort Issa's greater maturity into "messiness."

It's not that Issa's maturity (or anyone's) prevents them from having some messiness or hurt feelings, and it seems like Molly conflates hurt feelings with failure. Issa, on the other hand, demonstrates that what matters more is how her mistakes precede her growth.

Truthfully, if it were Molly in Issa's position, I'd say it was a sad mistake. If it had been Molly and Dro, for example. But that's because Molly (never mind Dro) has shown a lesser capacity for self-reflection and far less generosity or grace when a relationship could use them. (Also, it's always been weird to me that Molly feels entitled to school Issa on relationships, given that Molly has no experience with a committed partner, much less one with whom she's shared a home. Not to mention her seriously fucked-up attitude toward queer people like Jared. It's like bisexuality is just too messy.)

The script's precision showed that both Issa and Lawrence were feeling their way through the evening to see what they each really wanted. They both had easy escapes at different points; they both chose to keep the evening going. Finally, Lawrence invites her in. Finally, Issa states, "I'm not ready for this evening to end." "This evening," not "our relationship."

I won't be surprised if Issa realizes she DOES want to keep going with Lawrence. But it won't seem like a reflexive, desperate gesture.

Like i said, I hope I'm wrong.  But I think another reasonable read could be that issa, having been put on notice that Lawrence is still at least semi-involved with condola used "our night" instead of "our relationship" because she knows how messy it would sound.  

I really like issa, I hope I'm wrong, but I think objectively....this is messy. 

If I'm right (and I hope I'm not) she is entangling her emotions in a man who is not only still involved with his ex-gf but is considering a pretty major move seriously enough to fly to SF for interviews.  Not to mention that she may kinda be dating someone else (although I assume that isn't at all serious with Nathan so that's not a huge deal).

I mean, I guess he could be doing it just as more of an exploratory move, but he seems ready to leave his current job. 

And, while issa doesn't owe condola a darn thing, it felt kinda ugly that she knew Lawrence was going to spend time with her and didn't want to go.  Technically issa didn't do anything wrong, it just felt wrong.  Definitely for Lawrence to do that. 

I think I would have been 100% team issa and fully in her corner had she just gotten in the Lyft (if he was still waiting) and gone home. 

My read was that Lawrence wanted to potentially explore getting back together and if that's the case, let him make a clean break from condola and hang out with each other a few times.  See how the job pans out.  

Edited June 3, 2020 by RealReality

[mrsbagnet]

I do hope that Lawrence contacted Condola to tell her that he was definitely not coming.

In the Wine Down, Issa Rae and Prentice said they thought Issa was doing one of her mirror raps in the Lawrence's bathroom.

[loki310]

22 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Almost forgot the best part: Issa telling Lawrence that she wanted more that night.  Even if it doesn't add up to them having a future together, I loved seeing Issa take charge of her life and what she wanted.

Yeah I literally said “Yes!” and did a fist pump and then realized I was lowkey celebrating imaginary people and then chuckled. But then I was back in! Lol

[Empress1]

On 6/1/2020 at 11:19 PM, Amethyst said:

Almost forgot the best part: Issa telling Lawrence that she wanted more that night.  Even if it doesn't add up to them having a future together, I loved seeing Issa take charge of her life and what she wanted.

I agree, I like this arc she's on. She was drifting for a bit and now she's taking ownership over her own life: forging her own professional path, standing up for herself with Molly, and now taking charge of her romantic life. I don't doubt that whatever happens with Lawrence, she will be able to assert herself re: what SHE wants.

... She still awkward though, hence the fall. That whole exchange was gold. "You need a minute?"

On 6/1/2020 at 11:39 AM, Sheenieb said:

You lose your sense of self when you're out of work. When I was laid off, I felt like a loser. Although I was friends with/kept in contact with my team that was also laid off along with me, so I knew I wasn't alone, but seeing people going to work and doing shit while it took me a long time to find another job again was rough.

Yeah. In 2015 I was on a team that got laid off. None of my real-life friends were laid off, so I felt dumb being home and vacillating between sending out resumes and trying to find some way to entertain myself. I didn't even LIKE the job or the company that laid me off, but I still felt like a loser - like everyone had a purpose except me. So I understood Lawrence there. (I was a few months into something with a man at the time, and he was actually very helpful both in terms of reassuring me that I wasn't a failure and circulating my resume and making introductions.) My best friend was laid off recently and she's really struggling - she was the primary breadwinner, so there are real financial struggles, plus she's now in more of a SAHM role, which she doesn't enjoy. It's hard.

I think it's pretty profound to tell someone they make you happy, especially as Issa is in a season of building a life she actually likes.

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

... She still awkward though, hence the fall. That whole exchange was gold. "You need a minute?"

I loved that moment of awkwardness.

Also, this episode was truly funny in places.  I liked how the bartender said the drink was on the house because she busted her ass and she said "everybody forgot about that though." to which Lawrence immediately shot back "nobody forgot about that."

And the entire meeting with TSA Bae and Mazda.  Once again Lawrence's reaction was great.  His big grin followed by 'That was PERFECT!" made me cackle.

[Empress1]

41 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I liked how the bartender said the drink was on the house because she busted her ass and she said "everybody forgot about that though." to which Lawrence immediately shot back "nobody forgot about that."

I think I read that "everybody forgot about that" was ad-libbed!

[qtpye]

10 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I agree, I like this arc she's on. She was drifting for a bit and now she's taking ownership over her own life: forging her own professional path, standing up for herself with Molly, and now taking charge of her romantic life. I don't doubt that whatever happens with Lawrence, she will be able to assert herself re: what SHE wants.

... She still awkward though, hence the fall. That whole exchange was gold. "You need a minute?"

Yeah. In 2015 I was on a team that got laid off. None of my real-life friends were laid off, so I felt dumb being home and vacillating between sending out resumes and trying to find some way to entertain myself. I didn't even LIKE the job or the company that laid me off, but I still felt like a loser - like everyone had a purpose except me. So I understood Lawrence there. (I was a few months into something with a man at the time, and he was actually very helpful both in terms of reassuring me that I wasn't a failure and circulating my resume and making introductions.) My best friend was laid off recently and she's really struggling - she was the primary breadwinner, so there are real financial struggles, plus she's now in more of a SAHM role, which she doesn't enjoy. It's hard.

I think it's pretty profound to tell someone they make you happy, especially as Issa is in a season of building a life she actually likes.

I knew a Finnish girl who was absolutely shocked that Americans put so much of their self esteem into a job when the truth is that anyone can be laid off at any time for any reason. There is even more pressure on black folk because we have to simultaneously represent for our community and face unrealistic racist hurdles that other people don’t.

The problem with Lawrence and Issa is that they are both too easy going, slightly passive, and avoid confrontation at all cost.

This means that they don’t push each other enough. When one is floundering, the other will not help right the course.

Both have grown quite a bit since the relationship. Now, they have both learned to push themselves and take chances with their lives.

This is shown by Issa organizing a successful block party and Lawrence actively pursuing new job opportunities and wanting more from himself.

They probably could be really good friends or friends w/benefits but are a little to alike to make a go of it successfully.

[Empress1]

4 hours ago, qtpye said:

I knew a Finnish girl who was absolutely shocked that Americans put so much of their self esteem into a job when the truth is that anyone can be laid off at any time for any reason.

Especially in the US because we don’t really fuck with worker protections too tough. I’ve had conversations in groups of Americans & non-Americans & the non-Americans mention employment contracts, and the Americans are like “Oh, bless your heart.”

[BallisticNikki]

 

On 6/1/2020 at 12:16 AM, candall said:

It slips my mind how the dinner tonight was arranged, but I got up off the couch and walked over to the tv to read the texts between Lawrence and Condola.  They had a date scheduled for "Tuesday" and she wanted to know if they could get together that night instead.  He needs to pick a damn lane and not be stringing two women along.

I think he purposely double booked them. Just like Issa double booked her wine down and Lawrence dropping by to pick up his mail. Lawrence wanted the phone o be ringing when he was with Issa and wanted to be breathlessly late if/when he finally caught up w/ Condola.

On 6/1/2020 at 3:00 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Lol, Issa got a free drink for busting her ass.

Whee, that Lyft driver got all up in Issa and Lawrence's business. Issa wanted a quiet ride!

Was TSA guy's girlfriend's name  "Mazda"?

Oh, I hope Issa wasn't deliberately trying to block Condola, though Condola looked questionable to me trying to get Lawrence to come over to "talk" late at night. I'm thinking that was a booty call trying not to look like a booty call.

Did Issa have a spare set of clothes at Lawrence's apartment? I don't understand how she left the next morning in a different outfit. I guess maybe she bought the top at the art walk?

Still got money on Condola being pregnant.

Same jeans from the night before. And she bought the sweatshirt, as someone mentioned upthread.

I have to say, Issa's sweatshirt game is tough.

On 6/1/2020 at 1:23 PM, RealReality said:

I'm so mad at issa for proving Molly right.  

That whole thing with Lawrence was messy, messy, messy.  She knows how involved he is with condola.  Issa only offered to spend the night after he had gotten off the phone with condola.  I got the impression issa knew that he was going to see condola as soon as she left and that's why she insisted on staying.  

I wouldn't really call it messy bc she started out w/ the best of intentions. Actually, she was worried he might be trying to tell her he was sick. And she didn't seem all that interested to see his new apartment. The sex seemed more spur of the moment.

And I tend to judge "messy" on a sliding scale. Molly's threshold for messiness is a lot lower than Issa's bc Molly has no emotional intelligence. So if Molly did it, i would call it mess. But not so much w/ Issa bc she can roll with stuff better.

On 6/1/2020 at 2:30 PM, tennisgurl said:

Issa running into the TSA guy she was sleeping with was hilarious, in general I thought their night out was really fun. That looked like a great night, this show does a lot to make me want to some day take a trip to LA!

Only if Issa could be our tour guide!

On 6/1/2020 at 10:23 PM, talktoomuch said:

Has it though? They are both at such different and more mature places now. Even wanting to do a post mortem is a big sign of maturity. Sharing their hopes, dreams and recent realizations about themselves with no filter is another.

I mean they just turned 30. Their relationship started in college and many of those are difficult to last through the broke-ass-finding-myself 20s. Now that they're both grown and they clearly had a good foundation, would it be terrible for them to try again?

It started in college? I didn't get that impression. Didn't Molly and Isa both attend school in CA? But Lawrence attended somewhere else. He mentioned it in one episode and it wasn't in CA, if I recall. I'm re-watching so I may catch the episode soon.

I think it would be awesome if they could try again but the time apart really highlighted their differences IMO. There was something really weird about all of the time he spent w/ coworkers at Meridian and the sudden revelation that he no longer wished to pursue entrepreneurship/app development. I think they had to make Issa trip and fall in the restaurant bc that is really the only connection she still has to the awkward, passive, self-doubting person in Season 1. She's dressing better, she's self employed, she's branching out trying to make new friends, she's being direct and honest w/ ppl (We Got Y'all, Nathan, Condola, Molly, now Lawrence). I feel like she would be underwhelmed w/  the  new Lawrence.

[DearEvette]

4 minutes ago, BallisticNikki said:

And I tend to judge "messy" on a sliding scale. Molly's threshold for messiness is a lot lower than Issa's bc Molly has no emotional intelligence. So if Molly did it, i would call it mess. But not so much w/ Issa bc she can roll with stuff better.

Truth.

Molly's perception is skewed.  I also think  Molly's level of self-awareness is really low.  She is a text book projector.  I would say that Molly's relationship with Dro was messier than anything Issa has done throughout the course of the show.  And yet she gets offended when Issa tries to point out anything about Dro.

Molly wants to project messiness onto Issa because it fits her narrative of Issa at the moment. Just like calling Issa a user or how she implied Issa shies away from hard work.  It fits her narrative in her own head, when in fact we see Issa as a scrapper who as a building manager is basically on the job 24/7.  

She hated Issa's relationship with Condola even before she learned about the Lawrence connection.  She jumped on that and labeled it messy to gaslight Issa back toward her and away from Condola.  Meanwhile Issa and Condola were navigating the issue fairly well.  It was awkward, but they were actually acting grown up about it all.

 

 

[Empress1]

42 minutes ago, BallisticNikki said:

It started in college? I didn't get that impression. Didn't Molly and Isa both attend school in CA? But Lawrence attended somewhere else. He mentioned it in one episode and it wasn't in CA, if I recall. I'm re-watching so I may catch the episode soon.

Lawrence went to Georgetown. I remember the white cop mentioned it when he pulled Lawrence over.  Their relationship started when they were 24-ish - in the pilot, Issa said she was 29 and they'd been together for 5 years. So I assume they met after college. They do give me a college sweetheart vibe though. Their whole group gives me "we've all been friends since college" vibes.

21 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I would say that Molly's relationship with Dro was messier than anything Issa has done throughout the course of the show. 

Without question.

I forgot to mention that my favorite moment was when the Lyft driver asked if they were married and Issa whined "nooooo" like a toddler.

[Eri]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

3 hours ago, BallisticNikki said:

It started in college? I didn't get that impression. Didn't Molly and Isa both attend school in CA? But Lawrence attended somewhere else. He mentioned it in one episode and it wasn't in CA, if I recall. I'm re-watching so I may catch the episode soon.

Lawrence went to Georgetown. I remember the white cop mentioned it when he pulled Lawrence over.  Their relationship started when they were 24-ish - in the pilot, Issa said she was 29 and they'd been together for 5 years. So I assume they met after college. They do give me a college sweetheart vibe though. Their whole group gives me "we've all been friends since college" vibes.

You're right - Lawrence knew Derek in college and Derek introduced him to the rest of the social circle so they've all known each other for a while now.

[heavysnaxx]

On 6/2/2020 at 5:42 PM, RealReality said:

I really like issa, I hope I'm wrong, but I think objectively....this is messy. 

If I'm right (and I hope I'm not) she is entangling her emotions in a man who is not only still involved with his ex-gf but is considering a pretty major move seriously enough to fly to SF for interviews.  Not to mention that she may kinda be dating someone else (although I assume that isn't at all serious with Nathan so that's not a huge deal).

I mean, I guess he could be doing it just as more of an exploratory move, but he seems ready to leave his current job. 

And, while issa doesn't owe condola a darn thing, it felt kinda ugly that she knew Lawrence was going to spend time with her and didn't want to go.  Technically issa didn't do anything wrong, it just felt wrong.  Definitely for Lawrence to do that. 

I gotta say, being 25 years on from this stage of life, this does not seem messy to me at all. (Apologies for sounding like a cranky old person.) Jumping into an affair with your married friend without really understanding anything about open relationships like Molly did with Dro - that's messy. Cheating on your partner like Issa did - that's messy.

I think what this is, is single adults dating, who are also doing very common things like maybe changing jobs, trying to decide if a move is worth it, figuring out your professional goals, sharing a social group, and maintaining a relationship with an ex that might/might not lead to a reconciliation.

There wouldn't be anything wrong or even messy with Lawrence dating/sleeping with two different people. (Or Issa deciding in the next episode to go out with Nathan.) But I don't even think Lawrence did that in this episode, since I saw his evening with Issa more as a drink with a friend that turned into more, and our most current intel is that he and Condola are broken up. The idea that Lawrence should just cut ties altogether with Issa or Condola purely for form's sake seems wasteful and sad.

It's not necessarily messy to not know what you want from a relationship - that's what the beauty/function of dating is! It's not like they can go to the store and find a replacement person with customizable features. It's not messy for people to have lives and for multiple issues to happen at once. Any of these 3 characters seem entirely capable of managing the typical challenges of moving, finding a new job, etc. if that's what they want.

More importantly, Issa (like Condola) has no responsibility to recuse herself from sleeping with and/or dating Lawrence because of Condola. What would be ugly to me is Issa deciding to manage Lawrence and Condola's relationship or positioning herself as an unrequested sacrifice. That's the kind of boundary-violating, codependent interference Molly got into between Nathan and Issa. It would all be based on Issa assuming she knows what other people want and what's best for them. I'm really glad she didn't do that and that she respected all three of them.

One thing I like about this show is that it doesn't do the villain thing, it really delves into the why of what people do. So I tend to not see Lawrence as being up to no good just because he's in touch with Condola. TBH, it would be Issa I'd be more watchful of, given that she was the cheater!

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, heavysnaxx said:

I gotta say, being 25 years on from this stage of life, this does not seem messy to me at all. (Apologies for sounding like a cranky old person.) Jumping into an affair with your married friend without really understanding anything about open relationships like Molly did with Dro - that's messy. Cheating on your partner like Issa did - that's messy.

I think what this is, is single adults dating, who are also doing very common things like maybe changing jobs, trying to decide if a move is worth it, figuring out your professional goals, sharing a social group, and maintaining a relationship with an ex that might/might not lead to a reconciliation.

There wouldn't be anything wrong or even messy with Lawrence dating/sleeping with two different people. (Or Issa deciding in the next episode to go out with Nathan.) But I don't even think Lawrence did that in this episode, since I saw his evening with Issa more as a drink with a friend that turned into more, and our most current intel is that he and Condola are broken up. The idea that Lawrence should just cut ties altogether with Issa or Condola purely for form's sake seems wasteful and sad.

It's not necessarily messy to not know what you want from a relationship - that's what the beauty/function of dating is! It's not like they can go to the store and find a replacement person with customizable features. It's not messy for people to have lives and for multiple issues to happen at once. Any of these 3 characters seem entirely capable of managing the typical challenges of moving, finding a new job, etc. if that's what they want.

More importantly, Issa (like Condola) has no responsibility to recuse herself from sleeping with and/or dating Lawrence because of Condola. What would be ugly to me is Issa deciding to manage Lawrence and Condola's relationship or positioning herself as an unrequested sacrifice. That's the kind of boundary-violating, codependent interference Molly got into between Nathan and Issa. It would all be based on Issa assuming she knows what other people want and what's best for them. I'm really glad she didn't do that and that she respected all three of them.

One thing I like about this show is that it doesn't do the villain thing, it really delves into the why of what people do. So I tend to not see Lawrence as being up to no good just because he's in touch with Condola. TBH, it would be Issa I'd be more watchful of, given that she was the cheater!

I guess it's possible I don't know what messy is.  

To me, all these entanglements are messy, because issa is putting herself in a position to get her feelings hurt.  I think Lawrence wanted to explore getting back together, issa was open to that.  Had she just left at the end of the night I woulda been happy for her.  

But sleeping with a man you really like?  I don't know how a person doesn't get emotionally attached.  Now, that could just be me. TSA bae, issa didn't really like him and never had feelings for him, but she has and had feelings for Lawrence. 

So I don't know how she sleeps with him without getting emotionally invested.....with a man who is seeing someone else.....and is likely to want to move.

That level of entanglement seems messy to me.  

And yeah technically you're right, but if I had someone who I was once friendly with and I knew that they were kinda involved with someone the way Lawrence is with condola....i wouldn't feel very comfortable being a party to that person getting ghosted. 

Particularly if that person seemed as effected by the breakup as condola was.  Issa owes condola nothing, but if I were in issas position, I wouldn't feel good about it.  I don't like being a party to someone's pain, even if I'm not responsible for it. 

This possible love triangle (quadrangle, is Nathan a thing) with a guy who may just be leaving for another job feels like a bad idea and it feels messy to me. 

Were Lawrence and issa spending time together and casually dating to decide if they could be a couple again that would seem much tidier to me.  

However, I would concede that I haven't read an official definition of messy, this just seems very, very messy to me.  

[RealReality]

7 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Truth.

Molly's perception is skewed.  I also think  Molly's level of self-awareness is really low.  She is a text book projector.  I would say that Molly's relationship with Dro was messier than anything Issa has done throughout the course of the show.  And yet she gets offended when Issa tries to point out anything about Dro.

Molly wants to project messiness onto Issa because it fits her narrative of Issa at the moment. Just like calling Issa a user or how she implied Issa shies away from hard work.  It fits her narrative in her own head, when in fact we see Issa as a scrapper who as a building manager is basically on the job 24/7.  

She hated Issa's relationship with Condola even before she learned about the Lawrence connection.  She jumped on that and labeled it messy to gaslight Issa back toward her and away from Condola.  Meanwhile Issa and Condola were navigating the issue fairly well.  It was awkward, but they were actually acting grown up about it all.

 

 

I have a fantastic remote memory, but terrible intermediate memory because I ALWAYS forget what happens in past season of nearly every show I watch.  It's a blessing and a curse.  Mostly a curse since I rarely want to rewatch past seasons for a storyline.  

So, I have forgotten everything about dro but his name, and that's a vague memory.  I think he might have had weird teeth/mouth?  Did Molly date a lightskinned guy with weird teeth/mouth?  Was that dro?

Anyway, insecure fam, can someone give my sorry ass a brief recap on the dro messiness?  

[RealReality]

On 6/1/2020 at 12:00 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Lol, Issa got a free drink for busting her ass.

Whee, that Lyft driver got all up in Issa and Lawrence's business. Issa wanted a quiet ride!

Was TSA guy's girlfriend's name  "Mazda"?

Oh, I hope Issa wasn't deliberately trying to block Condola, though Condola looked questionable to me trying to get Lawrence to come over to "talk" late at night. I'm thinking that was a booty call trying not to look like a booty call.

Did Issa have a spare set of clothes at Lawrence's apartment? I don't understand how she left the next morning in a different outfit. I guess maybe she bought the top at the art walk?

Still got money on Condola being pregnant.

LOL, her name was Mazda.  I get the hood fly appeal of wanting to name your baby girl some aspirational status symbol....but what community is this where the aspirational status symbol is a Mazda!?!???

I'm not sure if I should be happy that we are managing financial expectations so well that "Mazda" is the new "Mercedes" or "Maserati" 

[Empress1]

10 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Anyway, insecure fam, can someone give my sorry ass a brief recap on the dro messiness?

Dro was Molly’s childhood friend. Dro is married. He hit on her, she was like “? You’re married,” he told her his marriage was open, & they started sleeping together. She slept with him when she found out her dad had cheated (and ditched fine Sterling K. Brown to do it). I forget how it ended. Last we saw Dro was at the baby shower & we found out his wife was pregnant. He was pissy with Molly for ending it.