S01.E20: O, Mouse!

[Trini]

SEASON FINALE - When one of Gotham's former heroes returns to his old stomping grounds to settle a score, both Batwoman and Commander Kane find themselves on the defensive. Meanwhile, Alice has uncovered what could finally take down Batwoman, but she is losing hold on her henchman Mouse and Hush (guest star Gabriel Mann), sending her spiraling into her most wicked self.

Amanda Tapping directed the episode written by Holly Henderson and Don Whitehead.

Airdate: 5/17/2020

[Jediknight]

Jacob opened fire on Batwoman, and Alice killed Mouse.

Yet, those were nothing compared to the biggest shock of the episode.  This show just cast Batman, and kept it a secret.  Who saw that coming?

[bettername2come]

Damn. I did not see that end coming. It was a good way to end the season. And Kate and Mary's toast of "sisters" was very nice. Was that the first time she's called Mary her sister without the "step?" I liked how she wants to talk to Kara bout the kryptonite and that she's not mentioning Supergirl. I forget sometimes that Kryptonite's ability to kill the Supers isn't always known. I would really like to see that conversation between them, especially to see if Kate would tell Kara they'd found a way to destroy it. 

[Lantern7]

Hello, Cousin Bruce! And Tommy becoming Bruce did play out for a while in the comics, when the actual Batman was dead. Who is the handsome sumbitch that get to play Bargain Bruce?

Biggest question: if Kate's suit can stop high-caliber projectiles, and the weakness is Kryptonite . . . is the suit made of Superman? Maybe DNA? Skin?? Maybe that's the reasoning behind this series crossing over with the new Clark/Lois series. Apparently, at some point, Superman let Batman use him as the basis of the most bleeding edge suit. Or Bruce developed it on his own because -- truth be told -- he could be an asshole.

RIP Mouse. You will be missed . . . but if your death leads to Alice leveling up while maintaining that delightfully insanity? That it would not be in vain.

Shut up, Jacob. Just . . . shut up. I did like the Crazy Of The Week, though.

[Lady Calypso]

Wow, that was quite a makeshift finale. Thank goodness the show was able to get this big reveal filmed before shutdown.

First off, I knew Mouse wasn't surviving the season. I just didn't expect his death to be at the hands of his own sister. Alice killing Mouse was rough. Even though she made it quite clear why she did it, she didn't take any joy in killing him. Poor guy. All he wanted was to leave with Alice and he was absolutely right about how they should have left and why it didn't make any sense to stay. 

But, in the end, Alice chose. Alice is such a fascinating villain. I know they'll add some redemption to her, but hopefully not too much. I like her shades of grey, leaning toward villainy. It makes her interesting.

No surprise on the Batwoman/Jacob front. It's good to see Jacob finally get into the plot, though! He's been on the outs for most of the season so it was good to see more of his view on Batwoman and him making some moves, even if it sucks to see. 

Kate's devastation at Jacob's betrayal was a great scene for her. I'm glad Mary is in on the secret, because her scenes with Kate are just so good. 

But, that ending? Damn, I was wondering if they'd ever cast Bruce Wayne. I guess they finally did (although I DO know the actor was previously in an Arrow episode way back in its first season as one of Oliver's playboy friends so...) But still, I like Warren Christie and I think he'll do a great job as Bruce/Batman. And this also opens the door for the real Bruce Wayne to show back up at some point. 

Overall, I think the show accidentally stumbled onto the perfect season 1 finale cliffhanger, so that made the episode worth it.

[quarks]

1. Bruce Wayne sorta shows up - and it turns out, he did annoy the hell out of Oliver Queen back in the day. Who would have thought! (The actor was in a season 1 episode of Arrow where he played someone that Oliver and Thea disliked.)

I hope the first thing Team Bat says to him is "Wait, YOU KILLED JOKER?" It won't be, but I can hope.

2. So, even though plenty of people know about Supergirl and Superman, they don't know about kryptonite?  Wondering if this is partly because Lex Luthor changed the past to make himself look like the good guy - and thus never had the chance to threaten Superman as openly with kryptonite. (Which, Google Chrome, is indeed a word. Stop spell-checking it.)

3. Though all of this kryptonite talk made me kinda wish that the Supergirl and Batwoman writers would communicate just a bit more - Supergirl has this huge, world event going on which no one in Gotham seems to be aware of, which could just be because everyone in Gotham is too traumatized and depressed to even think about entering an alternative reality and ordinarily would be something I wouldn't notice, but with everyone waving kryptonite around it kinda bugged me.

4. And on a related note, all of this THERE ARE ONLY TWO PIECES OF KRYPTONITE SORRY ONE wasn't quite as effective given all of the kryptonite getting tossed around on Supergirl, but moving on.

5. Awwww, poor Mouse, just wanting a nice normal life, finally getting to be the voice of reason....and then betrayed and dead.

6. Jacob, my dude, since the Crows are privately owned, they're not all that different from a privately funded vigilante, so maybe you can back off on this. That was one thing over on Arrow where the complaining people were at least nominally members of law enforcement - cops, FBI, Argus - and it would work here if Jacob was an elected official, but since you aren't, Jacob, shut up.

7. Especially since your security guys suck. I get that Batwoman has Super Armor and a bullet deflecting cloak but last I checked HER CHIN, CHEEKS AND NOSE aren't covered in the slightest. You dudes know her clothing is bulletproof so why were you aiming at the body armor and not her face? I guarantee that even Batwoman will be slowed down if a bullet goes into her jaw.

8. As always, yay Mary! Voice of reason, voice of comfort, and provider of alcohol!

I'll miss this show. Fingers crossed that it will be safe to film again soon and that Batwoman really can return, as hoped, next January. 

[thuganomics85]

I could definitely spend quite a bit ranting over Jacob's actions thanks to his "quest" to takedown Batwoman; from actually having The Crows and himself open fire on her, to blaming her for the actions of Alice; but, I'll just focus on the fact that he threw Mary's phone after talking with Batwoman, and I certainly doubt it survived.  Father of the year right there!  He better not only pay for a new phone, but give her a damn upgrade!  Dickbag.

For the life of me, I can't figure out how I would actually get emotional over watching one psycho killer kill another psycho killer, but the Alice/Mouse scene was so sad!  They're both are just messed up individuals, who never recovered from their horrible childhood, and have gone down a dark path that they can never recover from.  And that certainly goes double for Mouse, of course.  Alice's motivations for killing him were obviously selfish and unnecessary, but I truly believe that the Alice character honestly thinks that this is the only way to move forward and for both of them to "find peace."  Crazy.  Rachel Skarsten and Sam Littlefield gave some standout performances here.

Surprised that "The Titan" ended up being sympathetic himself in his own way.  But I figured he was going to be a goner.

At least Jacob's dickery is making me even more happy that Mary knows the truth and is able to be a supportive sister towards Kate.  And her scenes with Luke continue to be awesome as well!  Everyone needs a Mary in their life!

Looks like Julia's former boss not only has her in her sights again, but Sophie as well.  Uh oh!

So, Tommy Elliott finally gets his new face and it's... Bruce Wayne?!  Damn, leave it to Alice to find new ways to shake things up!  I imagine he'll be a major factor next season.  Curious to see how Warren Christie does in the role.  Totally forgot he was in a season one episode of Arrow as well!

All in all, a bit rushed in some aspects, but a pretty good finale all things considering.  Hopefully things will get better enough to keep its return in January.  While there were a few iffy moments early on in the season, the show has really grown on me and been one of the best ones this season.  Ruby Rose kept improving and has now become a great Kate/Batwoman, and both Camrus Johnson and Nicole Kang have really shined as Luke and Mary.  And then there is Rachel Skarsten, who has already made Alice one of the best villains out of the D.C. shows.  Can't wait to get more of their adventures next season!

[possibilities]

It really bothers me that they are portraying mentally ill people as dangerous monsters. In reality, they are much more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence.

I get that Arkham is a hellhole, but still-- the overall portrayal of its residents is really offensive.

--

I don't like Jacob. He's just really smug, for a guy with his track record and body count. I get that he doesn't like vigilantes, but really the only difference between his organization and Batwoman is that she's not getting wealthy off her work, and is more popular. She never goes after anyone who doesn't deserve it. She isn't just the usual vigilante troublemaker. It's almost like he hates her because she's the competition. She manages to do a better job than The Crows, despite their enormous resources and staffing. Maybe Jacob is just feeling his ego and his income threatened. What if Gotham had an effective volunteer hero supply? Jacob would be out of business.

--

I wouldn't blow kryptonite dust around. What if Supergirl shows up and inhales it? I'm overthinking, I know. But it just feels like radioactive particles or lead paint dust or something. Who knows what trouble that could lead to?

--

I have had a cracked rib. That fight scene post-injury was insane. She must have been on massive amounts of drugs to pull that off. A cracked rib makes breathing painful. Flying around hanging from one arm? Stick fighting? Holding off the insane maniac super-strong guy who is looming over you? All the adrenaline in the world would not be enough to make any of that possible.

--

Bats don't eat rats, do they? I thought they ate small flying insects and fruit.

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by possibilities

[tennisgurl]

For a finale that had to kind of cobble itself together, that was actually really good, it certainly felt epic enough for a finale, with a LOT of shit going down, and a lot to interesting new ideas for next season. I mean, we finally have Bruce Wayne! Well, not really, but we know what he looks like! 

I really didnt see that ending for Mouse and Alice coming at all, and its amazing how much I ended up feeling for these two murderous lunatics. While they both have done terrible things, they had such awful upbringings and had so many unimaginable traumas so young, it just adds this level of sadness to their existence. I mean, the best time of Mouses life was apparently being in Arkham with Alice, and thats just so unimaginably sad, the poor guy never had a chance. I dont know whats worse, being Mouse with no happy memories or idea of what a normal happy life could be, or Beth/Alice, who did have a happy life at one point and lost it all. And as horrible and selfish as what Alice did, killing the one person she still has left in her corner because he wanted to move on from her revenge quest, I also totally see her thinking that this is for the best, and the only way for him to find peace, that he was better dead than separate from her. 

The stuff with the Titan was a decently interesting little case of the week in the middle of all the plot stuff, and he actually turned out to be rather tragic, given that his brain is basically mush. A PSA about football players brain issues and how often the are left untreated, courtesy of Batwoman! 

Jacob, you idiot, what the hell are you doing? Not only did you try to gun down Batwoman when she was trying to help you, but you tossed Marys phone! How could he say no to Mary and her sad eyes? Even though Jacob doesent know that Kate is Batwoman, she just feels so hurt that her father could hate any version of her so much, especially considering her arch nemesis is her own sister. Thank God she has Mary, and I am even more glad that Mary is in on the secret now, Kate needs a whole lot of familiar support now. Their toast at the end was sweet, especially considering the season started with Kate still keeping her at arms reach. Its still I think kind of hard for Kate to navigate their family situation (like when she kind of forgot that Jacob is Marys dad too, just not biologically) but they have made a lot of great strides. Mary is just such an awesome person to have in your corner, sweet, supportive, fun, and willing and able to provide back ally medical need.

So Luke found a way to destroy Kyptonite! A giant hammer! Time to add something to the Arrowverse hero groupchat! Luke/Mary/Kate are a great trio, they play off each other super well, and I enjoy having a smaller team on an Arrowverse show again. Not that I dont enjoy big ensembles (and Kate especially needs people, as she doesent have powers and is still new to heroing) but so many of the Arrowverse teams have gotten so big, I like having a small crew again here. 

This show took a few episodes to find its feet, and I think struggled with feeling a bit like an Arrow redoux, but I feel like its really carved out a solid place for itself in the Arrowverse and has found ways to find its own unique personality. Ruby Rose increasingly came into her own as Kate/Batwoman, they have increasingly given layers to the supporting cast, have done some fun stuff with the Bat Lore (without going as batshit insane as previous Batman without Batman show, Gotham. At least not yet) and Alice is one of the best villains that DC has going for it in any of its shows. I am really excited to see what a second season can bring. 

Edited May 18, 2020 by tennisgurl

[Trini]

Wow, didn't think they'd kill off Mouse, and have Alice do it! He and Alice made a good pair, and if they ever came to an impasse I figured he would leave Gotham or end up back in Arkham so he could pop up later. He wasn't as important as Alice, but I still think the show is losing something here. And Alice/Hush just doesn't have the pizazz and history.

This is not news, but man, Alice is crazy/selfish!

Didn't think we'd get to see Bruce Wayne's face so soon!

Yes, Jacob is Mary's dad too; sucks that they barely featured that relationship at all.

[possibilities]

While I of course agree that Alice killing Mouse was wrong, bad, and generally terrible, it's also true that Mouse didn't want to help her leave him, when they were kids. In a way, his selfishness caused their current predicament, and her turning the tables on him was sad and horrible but poetic justice in some way.

If he had helped her escape when they were kids, she could have rescued him as well, and neither of them would have ended up suffering so long.

Now that he finally sees a way out and can imagine a different kind of future, she's lost her ability to let go of her pain and her past, and she's refusing to let him go, either.

It's a mess. But it kind of has a weird internal logic.

---

I knew they would eventually make the comparison that Kate's secret identity is like being in the closet as a lesbian, and contrast it to Sophie finally coming out of the closet just as Kate is heading back in. Even if it's a different closet, there are similarities.

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

While I of course agree that Alice killing Mouse was wrong, bad, and generally terrible, it's also true that Mouse didn't want to help her leave him, when they were kids. In a way, his selfishness caused their current predicament, and her turning the tables on him was sad and horrible but poetic justice in some way.

Yep, it was all of that. And from a narrative POV it was the right decision to get rid of Mouse too. It sets Alice free to roam on her own without having to deal with his opposing agenda.

Good final episode. I'm so glad they brought Mary into the bathuddle (he!). Not sure we needed Julia and Sophie's B-plot but there it is. Guess Safiyah is going to be the other big bad wolf for season 2.

I wasn't too sure about this show in the beginning but I must say that it delivered one of the best first seasons of the Arrowverse.
 

[Delphi]

Carter Bowen is Bruce Wayne.   No wonder Ollie hates him.

[Primal Slayer]

 

Hopefully if WB is letting them use Bruce Wayne....we end up getting the real Bruce Wayne and it leads into using other characters like Dick, Barb, Gordon, etc...so Gotham can finally start to REALLY feel like Gotham. The actor has the right look, age is actually good (unlike Tyler), decent actor. And he'd be around 5-6 years older than Oliver depending if they age him down a few years.

[CletusMusashi]

How does "angry super-strong football player" translate into "manipulating two lightweight cutting weapons at the same time?" I'd think something heavy and two-handed, like an axe or hammer, that would allow him to easily put his body weight into each blow, would fit the character better. Maybe they don't want to do the Casey Jones sledgehammer cliche, but there are lots of objects smashier than machetes, as well as being more likely to be quickly available to an escapee. Did Arkham make him do a lot of work in the Gotham City sugarcane gardens or something?

Edited May 18, 2020 by CletusMusashi

[mtlchick]

As other have said, for makeshift finales, this was pretty good.  Alice loved her Mouse, but loves revenge more so byeeeeee!!!! And in a way, he was kind of holding her back so I'm ok with him being gone.  

The show is still rough in some places (and I HAAAAATE that they need to use a blue tint to most scenes) but this rag tag Bat Team is pretty rad.  I think Batwoman already getting a crossover event with Superman/Lois shows the amount of faith the CW has in this. 

 

[bettername2come]

14 hours ago, quarks said:

As always, yay Mary! Voice of reason, voice of comfort, and provider of alcohol!

I want a Mary thread with this title.

[Trini]

5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Yep, it was all of that. And from a narrative POV it was the right decision to get rid of Mouse too. It sets Alice free to roam on her own without having to deal with his opposing agenda.

 

They could have done that without her killing him, though. Also I liked that she had an ally to contrast Kate's Bat-team.

[Rushmoras]

Well, this was... AWESOME as far as season finales go. Was surprised to see Alice poison Mouse; for that matter, when did she get the time to do that and how? They weren't eating or drinking anything... So, Jacob, you rehire Sophie, but you do not want her in the loop cause she's pro-Batwoman? Why you rehired her, then? I mean besides the obvious plot reasons. So,,kryptonite got destroyed with 40K T of pressure? Wow, that's a lot of pressure. I guess.. we will see the SuperBat cross-over next year, or the asking Kara whether it's OK to destroy the remaining kryptonite will happen off-screen?

 

Anyways, I fairly liked this season. I rate it 7 out of 10.

P.S. on a really shallow note, I somehow find Ruby Rose in her Batwoman costume very very sexy 😄

Edited May 18, 2020 by Rushmoras

[hypnotoad]

Quote

Especially since your security guys suck. I get that Batwoman has Super Armor and a bullet deflecting cloak but last I checked HER CHIN, CHEEKS AND NOSE aren't covered in the slightest. You dudes know her clothing is bulletproof so why were you aiming at the body armor and not her face? I guarantee that even Batwoman will be slowed down if a bullet goes into her jaw.

Well to be fair, I would expect most security people are taught to shoot center mass - that's how we were taught in the Army too. And shooting for the head, particularly someone who is in motion isn't as easy as tv shows or movies like to make it.

I thought this show started out rather slowly but did find it's feet. I ended up really liking it and I will miss it. Overall good season finale. I do enjoy Alice and her brand of crazy.

[sugarbaker design]

21 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

But, in the end, Alice chose. Alice is such a fascinating villain. I know they'll add some redemption to her, but hopefully not too much. I like her shades of grey.

Shades of grey?  Alice isn't charming jewel thief Selina Kyle, she's a face-ripping psychotic mass murderer!

[Chyromaniac]

Huh?  But Kate definitely recognized Old Man Batman when she and Kara met him during Crisis - which means that her Bruce should have also looked like Kevin Conroy.  Is this another thing that got changed when they rebooted the universe?  If so, dammit Ollie!

[Lantern7]

@Chyromaniac . . . I was assuming that Old Man Bruce started out at Batman further back in the past on his Earth, and that Hush wouldn’t have to resemble Kevin Conroy. Thinking about it, how hysterical would it be for Tommy to stop quoting Aristotle and start reciting lines from The Dark Knight Returns?

[CB-LXX]

I'm really so over Jacob Kane at this point, though of course I know that by season 3 (at least by then), he'll do a complete turnaround and be Batwoman's biggest fan (sorry Arrowverse, you are way too predictable, and the initial "vigilante hate" has become such a cliche), especially when he learns she's his daughter.

On 5/17/2020 at 8:23 PM, Lady Calypso said:

But, in the end, Alice chose. Alice is such a fascinating villain. I know they'll add some redemption to her, but hopefully not too much. I like her shades of grey, leaning toward villainy. It makes her interesting.

How do you redeem someone who has done such despicable things? For me, she loses any and all sympathy when she murders innocent people that had absolutely nothing to do with that horridly wretched childhood she had. I hate that she blames Kate for not having that magical twin intuition that should have made her realize that she was on the other side of that damn door, and now she wants to kill her. Please. Believe me, I feel for the innocent, lost child that she was, but personally, I wish Alice had died in that one episode and Beth had stuck around. I imagine if Rachel Skarsten is as great of an actress as people say (I have no experience with her prior to this show), she would have done wonders for that character. But Alice? Redemption? I just don't see it.

So how old is Bruce Wayne supposed to be? Guy looked like he was in his mid-30s. Wouldn't Commissioner Gordon still be around, leading the GCPD? Did he retire? Is he dead?

[quarks]

1 hour ago, Kenadi O said:

 

So how old is Bruce Wayne supposed to be? Guy looked like he was in his mid-30s. Wouldn't Commissioner Gordon still be around, leading the GCPD? Did he retire? Is he dead?

Maybe Commissioner Gordon found Jacob as irritating as I do and decided that any city would be better than a city that Jacob lives in.

Or I am just projecting here. You decide. 

[scarynikki12]

On 5/19/2020 at 8:32 PM, Kenadi O said:

So how old is Bruce Wayne supposed to be? Guy looked like he was in his mid-30s.

Christie is mid forties so he’s the right age to play Bruce.

Clever way to bring in Bruce Wayne without bringing in Bruce Wayne.

[appositival]

If you are standing in a circle and shooting at something in the centre, and you miss, what do you hit?

You hit your buddy who is standing on the other side of the circle! Batwoman could have just jumped from side to side and they would have wiped themselves out. Canonically, this is known as a "polish firing squad" formation (Przepraszam!).

[legaleagle53]

10 hours ago, appositival said:

If you are standing in a circle and shooting at something in the centre, and you miss, what do you hit?

You hit your buddy who is standing on the other side of the circle! Batwoman could have just jumped from side to side and they would have wiped themselves out. Canonically, this is known as a "polish firing squad" formation (Przepraszam!).

Her reflexes aren't that fast. She's Batwoman, not Supergirl (nice use of Polish, by the way!).

[Rushmoras]

6 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Her reflexes aren't that fast. She's Batwoman, not Supergirl (nice use of Polish, by the way!).

Or, they could take a page from Arkham video-games where Lucious in the third (fourth) instalment gave Bruce a more advance nano-tech suit, which lets him be quicker. I mean, basically, its' the same Iron Man suit, just less sophisticated.

[Joe Hellandback]

On 5/18/2020 at 2:01 AM, Jediknight said:

Jacob opened fire on Batwoman, and Alice killed Mouse.

Yet, those were nothing compared to the biggest shock of the episode.  This show just cast Batman, and kept it a secret.  Who saw that coming?

And I think a great choice of actor, he REALLY looks the part. 

On 5/18/2020 at 2:12 AM, bettername2come said:

Damn. I did not see that end coming. It was a good way to end the season. And Kate and Mary's toast of "sisters" was very nice. Was that the first time she's called Mary her sister without the "step?" I liked how she wants to talk to Kara bout the kryptonite and that she's not mentioning Supergirl. I forget sometimes that Kryptonite's ability to kill the Supers isn't always known. I would really like to see that conversation between them, especially to see if Kate would tell Kara they'd found a way to destroy it. 

Thing is do they actually destroy it? Powdered Kryptonite would still affect Supes. 

On 5/18/2020 at 2:17 AM, Lantern7 said:

Hello, Cousin Bruce! And Tommy becoming Bruce did play out for a while in the comics, when the actual Batman was dead. Who is the handsome sumbitch that get to play Bargain Bruce?

Biggest question: if Kate's suit can stop high-caliber projectiles, and the weakness is Kryptonite . . . is the suit made of Superman? Maybe DNA? Skin?? Maybe that's the reasoning behind this series crossing over with the new Clark/Lois series. Apparently, at some point, Superman let Batman use him as the basis of the most bleeding edge suit. Or Bruce developed it on his own because -- truth be told -- he could be an asshole.

RIP Mouse. You will be missed . . . but if your death leads to Alice leveling up while maintaining that delightfully insanity? That it would not be in vain.

Shut up, Jacob. Just . . . shut up. I did like the Crazy Of The Week, though.

Or you could just shoot at her mouth? Or use toxin? (always worked against WW). 

[Joe Hellandback]

On 5/18/2020 at 2:23 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Wow, that was quite a makeshift finale. Thank goodness the show was able to get this big reveal filmed before shutdown.

First off, I knew Mouse wasn't surviving the season. I just didn't expect his death to be at the hands of his own sister. Alice killing Mouse was rough. Even though she made it quite clear why she did it, she didn't take any joy in killing him. Poor guy. All he wanted was to leave with Alice and he was absolutely right about how they should have left and why it didn't make any sense to stay. 

But, in the end, Alice chose. Alice is such a fascinating villain. I know they'll add some redemption to her, but hopefully not too much. I like her shades of grey, leaning toward villainy. It makes her interesting.

No surprise on the Batwoman/Jacob front. It's good to see Jacob finally get into the plot, though! He's been on the outs for most of the season so it was good to see more of his view on Batwoman and him making some moves, even if it sucks to see. 

Kate's devastation at Jacob's betrayal was a great scene for her. I'm glad Mary is in on the secret, because her scenes with Kate are just so good. 

But, that ending? Damn, I was wondering if they'd ever cast Bruce Wayne. I guess they finally did (although I DO know the actor was previously in an Arrow episode way back in its first season as one of Oliver's playboy friends so...) But still, I like Warren Christie and I think he'll do a great job as Bruce/Batman. And this also opens the door for the real Bruce Wayne to show back up at some point. 

Overall, I think the show accidentally stumbled onto the perfect season 1 finale cliffhanger, so that made the episode worth it.

With his father dead Mouse had no one to take revenge on any more? 

On 5/18/2020 at 3:29 AM, quarks said:

1. Bruce Wayne sorta shows up - and it turns out, he did annoy the hell out of Oliver Queen back in the day. Who would have thought! (The actor was in a season 1 episode of Arrow where he played someone that Oliver and Thea disliked.)

I hope the first thing Team Bat says to him is "Wait, YOU KILLED JOKER?" It won't be, but I can hope.

2. So, even though plenty of people know about Supergirl and Superman, they don't know about kryptonite?  Wondering if this is partly because Lex Luthor changed the past to make himself look like the good guy - and thus never had the chance to threaten Superman as openly with kryptonite. (Which, Google Chrome, is indeed a word. Stop spell-checking it.)

3. Though all of this kryptonite talk made me kinda wish that the Supergirl and Batwoman writers would communicate just a bit more - Supergirl has this huge, world event going on which no one in Gotham seems to be aware of, which could just be because everyone in Gotham is too traumatized and depressed to even think about entering an alternative reality and ordinarily would be something I wouldn't notice, but with everyone waving kryptonite around it kinda bugged me.

4. And on a related note, all of this THERE ARE ONLY TWO PIECES OF KRYPTONITE SORRY ONE wasn't quite as effective given all of the kryptonite getting tossed around on Supergirl, but moving on.

5. Awwww, poor Mouse, just wanting a nice normal life, finally getting to be the voice of reason....and then betrayed and dead.

6. Jacob, my dude, since the Crows are privately owned, they're not all that different from a privately funded vigilante, so maybe you can back off on this. That was one thing over on Arrow where the complaining people were at least nominally members of law enforcement - cops, FBI, Argus - and it would work here if Jacob was an elected official, but since you aren't, Jacob, shut up.

7. Especially since your security guys suck. I get that Batwoman has Super Armor and a bullet deflecting cloak but last I checked HER CHIN, CHEEKS AND NOSE aren't covered in the slightest. You dudes know her clothing is bulletproof so why were you aiming at the body armor and not her face? I guarantee that even Batwoman will be slowed down if a bullet goes into her jaw.

8. As always, yay Mary! Voice of reason, voice of comfort, and provider of alcohol!

I'll miss this show. Fingers crossed that it will be safe to film again soon and that Batwoman really can return, as hoped, next January. 

Yeah, everyone was really hitting the sauce this week?

[Joe Hellandback]

On 5/18/2020 at 5:52 AM, possibilities said:

It really bothers me that they are portraying mentally ill people as dangerous monsters. In reality, they are much more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence.

I get that Arkham is a hellhole, but still-- the overall portrayal of its residents is really offensive.

--

I don't like Jacob. He's just really smug, for a guy with his track record and body count. I get that he doesn't like vigilantes, but really the only difference between his organization and Batwoman is that she's not getting wealthy off her work, and is more popular. She never goes after anyone who doesn't deserve it. She isn't just the usual vigilante troublemaker. It's almost like he hates her because she's the competition. She manages to do a better job than The Crows, despite their enormous resources and staffing. Maybe Jacob is just feeling his ego and his income threatened. What if Gotham had an effective volunteer hero supply? Jacob would be out of business.

--

I wouldn't blow kryptonite dust around. What if Supergirl shows up and inhales it? I'm overthinking, I know. But it just feels like radioactive particles or lead paint dust or something. Who knows what trouble that could lead to?

--

I have had a cracked rib. That fight scene post-injury was insane. She must have been on massive amounts of drugs to pull that off. A cracked rib makes breathing painful. Flying around hanging from one arm? Stick fighting? Holding off the insane maniac super-strong guy who is looming over you? All the adrenaline in the world would not be enough to make any of that possible.

--

Bats don't eat rats, do they? I thought they ate small flying insects and fruit.

 

Yeah that occurred to me too? But Mouse and Alice are unreliable narrators to say the least, they make Verbal Kint look like Abe Lincoln. You also have to remember that Arkham is a prison for the criminally insane, it's not like the normal asylum where people have normal mental illness.  

On 5/18/2020 at 9:04 AM, Trini said:

Wow, didn't think they'd kill off Mouse, and have Alice do it! He and Alice made a good pair, and if they ever came to an impasse I figured he would leave Gotham or end up back in Arkham so he could pop up later. He wasn't as important as Alice, but I still think the show is losing something here. And Alice/Hush just doesn't have the pizazz and history.

This is not news, but man, Alice is crazy/selfish!

Didn't think we'd get to see Bruce Wayne's face so soon!

Yes, Jacob is Mary's dad too; sucks that they barely featured that relationship at all.

She's crazy but not selfish, this kills her to do it. 

On 5/25/2020 at 4:25 PM, appositival said:

If you are standing in a circle and shooting at something in the centre, and you miss, what do you hit?

You hit your buddy who is standing on the other side of the circle! Batwoman could have just jumped from side to side and they would have wiped themselves out. Canonically, this is known as a "polish firing squad" formation (Przepraszam!).

Hey this TV. Apparently if you have a SWAT team on your show you have to hire real SWAT members so that it's realistic, I guess the Crows don't count. 

[Joe Hellandback]

1. For crying out loud Jacob, shoot the man with the machetes who has just decapitated a commuter! Even in today's crazy political climate no one would question you.    

2. Why does Alice need to kill Kate when she's wearing the suit? To kill the symbol of Batwoman rather than just an anonymous girl? 

3. The Gotham Goliaths, nice!

4. Did this ep run short and they had to string it out with the professor scene?

5. Equally Sophie and Julia seem just wedged in there at the end without any backstory?

6. Shocking when they fire on Batwoman, imagine the tragedy if Jacob had killed his daughter?

7. Why did they need Mary to lure Jacob to the meeting? Why not just leave the phone for him?

8. Totally fooled me as to who Alice was turning Tommy into, I thought he was going to be Jacob?

9. Why are the Crows at the stadium armed with short range weapons like shotguns and SMGs? Surely this calls for a sniper rifle? 

10. Even with all the willpower in the world Kate must be doped up to the nines to keep fighting after breaking her ribs? 

11. Maybe Jacob learned his lesson from the train and blows Titan away, ruthless but who can blame him?

12. On the badside, if Ruby doesn't come back for a handover ep how the hell are they going to bring the new Batwoman in and have it fit with the storyline? Also a shame as you really feel Team Batwoman is coming together at the end of this ep.  

 

 

[John Potts]

Was very unimpressed with Luke's initial failure to destroy the Kryptonite - he'd only tried chemical attack (three acids, IIRC). Come back when it's survived a pile driver and being dropped into molten tungsten, then you can start complaining about it being hard to destroy!

Mary is absolutely right that somebody who thinks they know what they're doing is worse than knowing nothing.  She really is the hero Gotham needs and deserves right now.

Amazing how sad Alice murdering Mouse was.

Gee, if only the Crows had UV goggles (and weren't obsessed with taking down Batwoman), there might be a whole lot more of them alive.

On 5/18/2020 at 3:29 AM, quarks said:

Jacob, my dude, since the Crows are privately owned, they're not all that different from a privately funded vigilante, so maybe you can back off on this

I would love it if he admitted that the existence of a vigilante operating to protect citizens for free risked undermining his livelihood. It wouldn't be as justifiable, but it would be a hell of a lot more understandable. Especially as they seem to be diverting resources to kill Batwoman instead of actually protecting people.

On 5/18/2020 at 8:23 PM, Rushmoras said:

Was surprised to see Alice poison Mouse; for that matter, when did she get the time to do that and how? They weren't eating or drinking anything.

My guess? It was in the candle, releasing poisonous fumes (which would be why the first sign was a nosebleed). That would need Alice to have taken an antidote first that left her completely immune, but that's plausible in comic book science.

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

1. For crying out loud Jacob, shoot the man with the machetes who has just decapitated a commuter! Even in today's crazy political climate no one would question you.    

.......

12. On the badside, if Ruby doesn't come back for a handover ep how the hell are they going to bring the new Batwoman in and have it fit with the storyline? Also a shame as you really feel Team Batwoman is coming together at the end of this ep.  

1 Yes! I'm as bleeding heart a liberal as you're likely to find, but shooting a machete wielding maniac who just decapitated somebody in a train full of people is about as justifiable a kill as you're likely to get.

12 Maybe Kate deputises somebody to don the cape while her ribs mend? It would be an unusual admission that broken bones don't instantly fix themselves, but it would be somewhat realistic.

[quarks]

3 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

4. Did this ep run short and they had to string it out with the professor scene?

5. Equally Sophie and Julia seem just wedged in there at the end without any backstory?

Arrow always overshot at least five to eight minutes per episode to cover any potential issues with stunt or outdoor scenes. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Batwoman does the same.  Beyond that, the Supergirl cast and crew said they weren't able to film or finish filming every scene in what turned out to be their unexpected season finale, so again, it wouldn't be surprising to hear that Batwoman ran into similar problems - especially since Batwoman has said that they do sometimes need to film certain scenes out of sequence, and presumably they were also trying to film a few last minute pickup shots for earlier episodes.