S40.E14: It All Boils Down to This

[meep.meep]

12 hours ago, North of Eden said:

Ben looked like a serial killer once he was on the jury. I'll submitt his suddenly quitting for no reason was he realized the powers that be weren't going to pull a rabbit out of their ass to save him this time.

Sophie must have been still sick at final tribal...she did not look with it at all and Jeremey looked murderous.

I think that Ben knew he was Tony and Sarah's goat and didn't want to be seen that way.  So he figured out a way to be a hero and go out with his head held high.

The whole jury looked sick at final tribal.  There's no reason to make a bunch of people freeze in the rain.  They aren't competing.

And if that's the last I have to see of Rob and Amber, it'll be great.

[skybolt]

Random thoughts

The advantages for the return challenge were too much. Since the remaining players had accumulated so many tokens at the end, the only thing an EoE player needed to do was find that last clue and get a gazillion tokens for it. That being said, I give credit to Natalie for grinding while everyone else on EoE basically stopped playing the game. Parvati could've also had 3 advantages if she hadn't bought peanut butter for the group. She could've also asked Natalie for a couple of tokens for helping her. Tyson had 2 tokens at the end of the coconut challenge, but had zero 3 days later. That one extra advantage could've made a big difference.

I understand Natalie not being confident at beating Tony or Sarah at the fire making challenge, but I wish she would've practiced all day like Michelle to see if she had it in her. That fire making challenge took a long time, even Michelle had a good shot to win. The reason why Chris won Season 38 is because he took out the clear winner at that point (Devens) in the fire making challenge. The point Rob was trying to make is that if you come back to the island with all this information and gunning for the clear favorite, friggin practice making fire and take him out yourself.

Not sure how I feel about Ben. He's a good guy, but he had final 3 locked with his fire making ability. If he made that decision at final 4 where Sarah was guaranteed final tribal, I would get it. However, there was still one more person to eliminate.

I'm super happy that Tony won. He played the best game and was never obnoxious to anyone. He definitely exaggerated his idol hunting and tree spying to the jury, but they just believed him because he's Tony.

Denise needs a hairstylist in the worst way.

Kudos to Michelle for having a positive spirit since day 1. She respected the game and played her best.

[peachmangosteen]

4 minutes ago, MrsR said:

I was rooting for Natalie but I can live with Tony because HE ISN'T SARAH LACINA.

At least we have that!

4 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

And if that's the last I have to see of Rob and Amber, it'll be great.

Yes, please!

[amazingracefan]

29 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Oh, I remember something very annoying. I mean, there were tons of annoying things but anyway ... Amber saying she only came for Rob. Fuck off! And I was really excited to see her again.

When that crying segment came on I just skipped over it, not my thing.  I guess they talked to Adam too as I thought I saw a glimpse of him in a challenge from earlier.  I just wanted to continue with the game so I just skipped ahead to that on my download.

[peachmangosteen]

3 minutes ago, amazingracefan said:

When that crying segment came on I just skipped over it, not my thing.  I guess they talked to Adam too as I thought I saw a glimpse of him in a challenge from earlier.  

I don't remember them talking to Adam, but honestly, I started to zone out during that segment. And also during the last like 2 hours lol.

[AntFTW]

8 hours ago, blackwing said:

I feel like Michelle got zero votes because it's like she said... she didn't work hard enough to get into a good alliance at the beginning.  She was trying to just play nice with everyone, then she became the odd one out.  She didn't have enough bonds with anyone.  Not even Nick, probably her closest ally.

Someone mentioned that Michelle seemed to take her zero votes well... I'm not so sure.  As the votes were being read, alternating between Tony and Natalie and it became obvious that she was getting zero votes, she looked a little sad and leaned back into a hug from her sister.

As for Natalie, what other bigger splash would you have expected?  She made a huge splash.  It was obvious that she wasn't going to be able to break up the four, but she came back with a target on her back and made the most of it.  She moved to ally herself with Michelle.  She had an idol and was safe.  The only thing wrong was that they didn't consider that any of them would have idols.  She found the last idol and made herself safe at final five.  She and Michelle worked Sarah and got Sarah to flip and vote out Ben.  This was even after Sarah told Tony about Natalie's idol.  I don't think Natalie got enough credit for doing that.  Then she won the final immunity challenge and got herself into the final three.

Her two idols and convincing Sarah to flip got her to the end.  In addition, when she listed out all of the advantages/disadvantages she had found on Extinction that she had given to others... there were like five or six of them.  I thought she made a good case for herself

I don't disagree at all. Natalie made moves. It got the job done as far as getting her to the end. I was rooting for Natalie once she came back in. They just weren't "flashy" like Tony's moves tend to be perceived. Tony's moves made everyone chaotic and scramble at TC. That's a "splash." That's the kind of splash I believed she needed because she hadn't been in the game. In the short amount of time she had to build a resume, she just needed some more "pizazz" for the jury.

Edited May 14, 2020 by AntFTW

[amazingracefan]

5 minutes ago, skybolt said:

Not sure how I feel about Ben. He's a good guy, but he had final 3 locked with his fire making ability. If he made that decision at final 4 where Sarah was guaranteed final tribal, I would get it. However, there was still one more person to eliminate.

Were we shown the full story there, it didn't make sense to me.  It looked like Sarah was probably telling him that he was such a threat making fire (this had been mentioned at some point I think) that she had to vote him out, and he showed he understood that.  That would just make more sense.

[neece26]

I gave a huge eyeroll at Sarah's little speech about how women are perceived.  Please.  The only reason she thought of that was because Natalie told her that the consensus of the jury members who had played with both of them felt like Tony was running things, which he was.  

I think the right person won this season.  Early in the game, Tony consciously worked to modify his gameplay from previous seasons and not become a target.  He worked hard finding advantages, made moves like knocking out Sophie, won a lot of immunities and his mind was always thinking about the game.  He was quite entertaining.  

Natalie is an impressive athlete but I think being on EOE takes the Outwit part out of Survivor, so advantage there went to Tony.  Much harder to survive every TC to get to the end.

Would have loved for some of the early EOE old schoolers to have made it further but overall it was a good season.

 

[SoWindsor]

1 hour ago, nutty1 said:

Interesting quote form Michele in an ET interview....

""I knew that Adam, Nick, Wendell, and Danni were actually on the cusp of voting for me, and they voted for Tony. And I've talked to them about this post-game. They all, as soon as the votes were read, and they came to me and they told me that there was a situation that Natalie could have potentially won. So instead, they sided with Tony, just to make sure that the right person won the season."

That makes total sense and must have helped her feel better about it. Still think it would have been nice if one person voted Michelle — maybe Nick or Wendall.

I actually think Sarah hurt her chance of winning by voting off Ben. Let’s say she voted Michelle out and Nat still won FI. Nat would have taken Sarah and let Ben & Tony battle Fire. Ben probably would’ve won so F3 would’ve been Nat, Sarah and Ben. It would have been really close between Nat and Sarah. 
 

I’d like to have seen Tony’s reaction to Sarah voting out Ben.

Edited May 14, 2020 by SoWindsor

[thesupremediva1]

For me this was the clearest vote I can remember - Tony dominated the whole game. He hit all three pillars - building relationships, working hard and winning challenges, and managing to find a way to spy on people in a tree! I love this guy! I hadn't watched Survivor in over a decade but I came back for this one to see my old-school loves like Boston Rob, Amber, Sandra, and Ethan. I didn't think I'd watch once they were gone but I grew fond of the new-schoolers as well. 

Tony is just my kind of guy and, starting about a month ago, I couldn't have rooted for him any harder. I didn't watch his original season so, pardon me, but I'm puzzled by any dislike of him. 

Natalie had every advantage going into that last challenge and still almost lost. If she didn't have all those idols in her pocket she wouldn't have made final 3. No disrespect to her at all, she definitely was Queen of Extinction, but I am just not a fan of putting someone back in the game that late. Tyson's entrance should have been the only opportunity to rejoin. 

Oh and Natalie didn't break up the alliance; Ben made one of the stupidest decisions I've ever seen. There was NO reason for him to willingly leave the game. If I was his wife, I'd be furious that he threw it away to give an advantage to Sarah. What was he thinking?! Michelle would have been out.

Tony really won it for me when he told Ben and Sarah that Natalie had an idol and they had to vote Denise. Both of them prattling on about what they "knew" - and then Sarah going off about calming down Tony when he was right on the money - just told me that these two overly confident yahoos didn't have the "outwit" acumen Tony possessed. 

Natalie wasn't around camp long enough to realize it, but she should never have put Tony against Sarah in that fire challenge in front of the jury. Their love and respect for one another, plus their reactions to the result, sealed the deal. I knew once the jury watched that exchange that the winner of the fire challenge would likely win the game. They both played exceptionally well and stayed true to their original alliance. When a jury sees some level of true "loyalty" and love in this game, it sticks with them.

Natalie got where she did on challenge strength and hidden immunity idols. Having just rewatched season 1 on Hulu, it's funny to see that, even 20 years later, challenge dominance will get you to the final but it won't get jury votes. Kelly Wigglesworth literally made it to the final 2 on nothing but immunity challenges. Most contestants couldn't stand Rich but they respected his gameplay. Tony's 4 immunity wins helped immensely but he still managed to NEVER see a vote go to him. And as the recognized alpha of the game, that's amazing. 

This has actually brought me back to Survivor. I enjoyed this season and will watch 41. Kudos, Probst and cast. 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by thesupremediva1

[AncientNewbie]

FYI so many mentioned missing Ponderosa in this thread—CBS dropped about an hour worth of videos this morning. 

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Wendell doesn’t seem like a mature enough person to consider voting for an ex even if he actually did believe she should win. 

[AntFTW]

5 hours ago, cherrypj said:

Natalie started at the finish line in the battle-back challenge, but barely won. She did not break up the Tony, Sarah, Ben alliance: Sarah did. If Ben doesn't fall on his sword, Natalie might not even be at the FTC. Rob was right: she didn't play the perfect game, she was voted out first.

I thought Natalie was gonna blow it. She kept fucking up. How exactly to do you buy a challenge damn near-complete and still lose? I was asking myself that during the battle back challenge watching Natalie fumble.

Edited May 14, 2020 by AntFTW

[skybolt]

In his interview Tony gave a lot of props to Sophie. He said she was playing the best game out of anyone (including himself) and he had to pull that move because she would've won. He also explained his lion designation. He based it on how viewers perceive play from previous seasons. He said next time Sophie plays she will be regarded as a lion by everyone.

[KittyMom4]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I never watched the season that this Danni person was on, and she kind of didn't get any airtime at all.  When they showed her onscreen last night for five seconds, my kids and I instantly went "YEEEEEECH!"  Looks like Caitlyn Jenner with even more overinflated lips.

Omg, when they showed her in close ups on EoE I would shudder. I remember her season and at the final tribal she wore so much lip gloss she looked like she'd smeared vaseline from her nose to her chin. Yuck.

Sorry if this has been answered but did they ever explain why Sophie was sick? From watching the Ponderosa video I wondered if eating all that sugar so quickly did a number on her.

 

[amazingracefan]

1 minute ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Tony is just my kind of guy and starting about a month ago I couldn't have rooted for him any harder. I didn't watch his original season so pardon me but I'm puzzled by any dislike of him.

I liked Tony on his original season, if you liked him here you'd probably like him there.

[Growsonwalls]

Interview with Tony. He thinks he would have lost to Sarah.

Quote

Our dream — Sarah and I, we would always say, "Imagine Cops ‘R’ Us at the end." But now thinking about it, Sarah would have kicked my ass at the final Tribal. So, I guess it worked out perfectly for me, but it was so hurtful, man. That was the worst, that was the worst feeling in the world.

Again, there just must have been stuff about Sarah that we didn't see. I still think that Tony wins if it's Tony vs. Sarah.

[blackwing]

6 minutes ago, MrsR said:

I was rooting for Natalie but I can live with Tony because HE ISN'T SARAH LACINA.

God what an ego. I loathe her and watching her realize Tony was right was the highlight of the episode. I only wish she would have left right then and there. 

Ben you suck. Denise still had some fight in her, why couldn't you fall on your sword earlier. You simply suck.

Loved Michelle completing that puzzle in a hot minute. Wish she had gotten at least one vote.

The spy nest was such bullshit. Sarah could have simply told Tony what Natalie had said. I was wishing he fell out on his ass. I do appreciate that he didn't have a "journey", he just wanted a fat bank account.

Oh well now Sarah can go back to working the mean streets of Cedar Rapids. 

 

This!  Her gameplay was so spectacularly bad in the last two episodes.  For all she talked about her vaunted powers of observation and how "I'm a cop, I NOTICE things", she was sure clueless.  She assured Tony that Natalie didn't come back with an idol.  I don't know why she felt so assured about that, she knew that Edgers were getting fire tokens, what did she think they were being used on?  Natalie comes back and says Tony is going to win and that's the first time Sarah realized that she doesn't have any chance?  She was completely delusional if she thought that she and Tony were being viewed as playing an equal game.

I do think she would have stood a good chance of winning if she had been up against Natalie and Michelle in the finals.  Which is why I rooted so hard for Tony to beat her in fire.  Even though I wanted Natalie to win, I can tolerate a Tony win but I would have been really ticked off if Sarah won. 

Sarah is an idiot if she thought she had any chance of beating Tony in the end.  Her best chance of winning would have been if she had worked with Nick and Michelle earlier to get Tony out.  Then she could have been at the end with Ben and Natalie and probably would have won easily.

[skybolt]

14 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

For me this was the clearest vote I can remember - Tony dominated the whole game. He hit all three pillars - building relationships, working hard and winning challenges, and managing to find a way to spy on people in a tree! I love this guy! I hadn't watched Survivor in over a decade but I came back for this one to see my old-school loves like Boston Rob, Amber, Sandra, and Ethan. I didn't think I'd watch once they were gone but I grew fond of the new-schoolers as well. 

Tony is just my kind of guy and starting about a month ago I couldn't have rooted for him any harder. I didn't watch his original season so pardon me but I'm puzzled by any dislike of him. 

Natalie had every advantage going into that last challenge and still almost lost. If she didn't have all those idols in her pocket she wouldn't have made final 3. No disrespect to her at all, she definitely was Queen of Extinction, but I am just not a fan of putting someone back in the game that late. Tyson's entrance should have been the only opportunity to rejoin. 

Oh and Natalie didn't break up the alliance, Ben made one of the stupidest decisions I've ever seen. There was NO reason for him to willingly leave the game. If I was his wife, I'd be furious that he threw it away to give an advantage to Sarah. What was he thinking?! Michelle would have been out.

Tony really won it for me when he told Ben and Sarah that Natalie had an idol and they had to vote Denise. Both of them prattling on about what they "knew" and then Sarah going off about calming down Tony when we was right on the money just told me that these two overly confident yahoos didn't have the "outwit" acumen Tony possessed. 

Natalie wasn't around long enough to realize it, but she should never have put Tony against Sarah in that fire challenge in front of the jury. Their love and respect for one another, plus their reactions to the result sealed the deal. I knew once the jury watched that exchange that the winner of the fire challenge would likely win the game. They both played exceptionally well and stayed true to their original alliance. When a jury sees some level of true "loyalty" and love in this game, it sticks with them.

Natalie got where was on challenge strength and hidden immunity idols. Having just rewatched season 1 on Hulu, it's funny to see that, even 20 years later, challenge dominance will get you to the final but it won't get jury votes. Kelly Wigglesworth literally made it to the final 2 on nothing but immunity challenges. Most contestants couldn't stand Rich but they respected his gameplay. Tony's 4 immunity wins helped immensely but he still managed to NEVER see a vote go to him. And as the recognized alpha of the game, that's amazing. 

This has actually brought me back to Survivor. I enjoyed this season and will watch 41. Kudos, Probst and cast. 

 

Not sure what happened between Amber and Natalie. They seemed like besties on EoE. Would like to hear more about why Natalie avoided her that last week. It was likely because she didn't want Rob to have any idea of her advantages. Still, not a great social play.

I thought Natalie consistently harking on breaking up the 4 person alliance was not a very good move. First of all, Denise knew she was a number in that group, so why bundle her with them and lose her vote? Also, if she truly believed she converted Sarah, which she didn't, why alienate her as well. Her approach was like screw you 4, I don't need your vote.

I had previously noted that Natalie gave Tyson the idol so he would convince the jury that she should win. However, it does appear that all this move did was get Tyson's vote. 

Like I mentioned above, if I was sitting on EoE for 30+ days, I would practice making fire every single day. This should be a no brainer for someone already voted out with nothing to do. You're main goal is to get the big threat out anyway you can. If that means beating them at the fire making challenge, then you need to do it.

 

[amazingracefan]

13 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Well, this season and finale wasn’t an epic shitshow. For the last time: I get the Tony hate, but I’m okay with him winning. I just wanted Natalie to win because an ex-Racer winning twice would’ve been the ultimate “FUCK YOU” to CBS for shafting TAR fans.

She was on The Amazing Race, but the 'twinnies' really annoyed me and I thought that season was terrible as well for various other reasons.

[blackwing]

5 hours ago, cherrypj said:

Natalie started at the finish line in the battle-back challenge, but barely won. She did not break up the Tony, Sarah, Ben alliance: Sarah did. If Ben doesn't fall on his sword, Natalie might not even be at the FTC. Rob was right: she didn't play the perfect game, she was voted out first.

Sarah didn't break up the alliance.  Natalie did.  First off, at final 6, Natalie offered that if anyone wanted to talk with her, she was listening.  Michelle was the only one who took her up on it.  Natalie approaches Michelle and wants to work with her.  Michelle won immunity.  Natalie played an idol that nobody knew about.  So she was guaranteed that they would lose one out of the 4.

Then, with five left, if Natalie hadn't said anything about Tony being well respected by the jury right when she returned, there is no seed of doubt in Sarah's mind.  Sarah doesn't cry about how "it's so unfair to be a woman, I'm playing just as well as Tony but I am perceived as a bitch while he is being lauded".  Sarah wouldn't have thought twice about going to the end with Ben and Tony because in her mind she truly thought she was playing the best game.  

I still don't fully understand why Ben would sacrifice himself at that point in time... at the very least, why not vote out Michelle and then when it is final 4, anything goes?  But while Sarah made the decision to vote out Ben, she never would have done so if it weren't for Natalie.

I do think that Natalie was fantastic in chipping away at that alliance... she got rid of Denise and then she engineered Ben's exit.  Then she made the remaining two make fire against each other.  Of the six remaining players, Tony's alliance constituted four.  For only one of them to make it to the final tribal is a testament to the way Natalie was able to work and chip away.

And screw Rob Mariano... so bitter.  Natalie answered as well as she could.  She made mistakes on the first two days and it resulted in her getting voted out.  But she didn't give up and she clawed her way back and managed to get to the end. 

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

56 minutes ago, amazingracefan said:

When that crying segment came on I just skipped over it, not my thing.  I guess they talked to Adam too as I thought I saw a glimpse of him in a challenge from earlier.  

I don't remember them talking to Adam, but honestly, I started to zone out during that segment. And also during the last like 2 hours lol.

Jeff didn't talk to Adam at the actual challenge (just Kim, Tyson, Amber, Rob, Parvati, and Ethan - though I'm sure they cut out bits from the others), but after the challenge, they had an extended segment where each of the 20 had a little voice-over talking about the game over footage of them from the season. Sort of a New and Improved Walk of Fallen Survivors, Now With Non-Fallen Survivors.

[skybolt]

Sarah taking advice from Ben on game play was a dumb move. Her blindsiding him at that point made zero sense, even if he put her up to it. It's like if Tony took out Ben instead of the true ring leader, which was Sophie at that time. Not only that, but the whole point of a blindside is that you want to show the jury that you were the mastermind behind that move. A.) Natalie and Michelle were the ring leaders in taking out Ben, and B.) Sarah and Ben hugging right after she blindsided him made it clear that he was in on it. It was such a stupid move orchestrated by none other than Ben.

[preeya]

5 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I was touting for Tony.  Yes he is manic and over the top, but he also seems like a genuine, nice guy and he played hard.  
 

I just cannot envision Tony as a police officer IRL.  His antics/personality on Survivor do not, IMO, fit that of a cop.

[skybolt]

2 minutes ago, preeya said:

I just cannot envision Tony as a police officer IRL.  His antics/personality on Survivor do not, IMO, fit that of a cop.

Luckily for all us, Tony has been confined to doing office work since he played on Cagayan. They took him off the streets. 🙂

[Growsonwalls]

1 minute ago, skybolt said:

Luckily for all us, Tony has been confined to doing office work since he played on Cagayan. They took him off the streets. 🙂

"Hey buddy, so they told me you might have gotten into a fight with your girlfriend so I gotta arrest you. Maybe you did it, maybe you didn't, I don't know, I'm kind of second-guessing whether I should be making this arrest, but my buddies sent me out here so you know, yeah, gotta do this. But if you're innocent? I feel real bad. But if you're guilty? Then I don't feel so bad. It's possible that you're being set up, and my mind;s racing with that possibility, but you know, my buddy Lacina wouldn't let me down ..."

[Growsonwalls]

Sandra just tweeted a picture of Natalie and Michele and she called them "Queens." I get why she's so popular within the Survivor community. In the game she is cutthroat but once the game is over it seems like she is a huge fan and gracious to most everyone (except Russell):

 

[iMonrey]

The show has been telegraphing a Tony win all season long so this came as no surprise. I'm fine with it because he earned it, but I've just never warmed up to him so it's been an unsatisfying season overall. It wouldn't sit right with me if the first person voted out of the game ended up winning it and I don't think Michelle earned any votes either so I'll take this, I'm just not enthused about it.

When Natalie told everyone that the jury saw Tony as making all the moves and the rest of them just following his instructions, they looked positively gobsmacked. I don't know whether that speaks to the editing, or their lack of self-awareness. Probably a little of both.

I don't understand why they had to sit in the pouring rain for tribal council. Surely they could have postponed it until the rain let up, but I suppose they thought the visual would be compelling. It's a wonder none of them came down with pneumonia. 

The downside of dropping the live reunion is we got an awful lot of padding, especially in the first hour. I didn't need to hear from every EOE player about their damn "journey." 

I'm crossing my fingers they never do EOE again. It hasn't been popular with fans and while I can see why they wanted to do it again with Winners At War, let's hope they drop it now.

Edited May 14, 2020 by iMonrey

[nutty1]

Poor Sophie.....she looked as sick as could be. I wonder what was wrong with her? Has anyone read anything about that?

[SuburbanHangSuite]

1 hour ago, neece26 said:

I gave a huge eyeroll at Sarah's little speech about how women are perceived.  Please.  The only reason she thought of that was because Natalie told her that the consensus of the jury members who had played with both of them felt like Tony was running things, which he was. 

 

 

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

Those tears are one of the reasons why I despise her so much.  She's such a fake person.  She was clearly pandering to the jury when she cried about how "it's so hard to be a woman" and then went on about her journey and how she finally feels like it's ok to be her and not feel bad about winning the game last time she played.  She was obviously gunning for the win when she voted out Ben.  I still don't get why Ben told her it was ok.  The three of them could have easily voted out Michelle and attempted to get to the end.  But she selfishly wanted to get credit for "making a move" and voting out one of her closest allies because she knew she wouldn't win if she was sitting next to Tony.

Then for her to sit there and sob about how much she loves Tony and how it was so hard to go up against him in fire?  Whatever.  Go piss up a rope.  She clearly wanted to beat him otherwise she wouldn't have voted out Ben.  Hate her.

 

It's nice to know that we all saw through her BS with the gender equality card she tried to pull.  Don't get me wrong--I know gender bias is real and happens everyday.  But I don't think it occurs within this game as much as folks like to allege.   All of her tears and righteous emotion?  That's in direct response to how she's perceived by the viewers, not her fellow contestants.  If viewers find her arrogant, unlikeable and insufferable, don't use that as a reason to guilt jurors into a vote. If she really was going to be so powerful and own her game (what game?!) then she shouldn't let people run her off of Twitter.   

 

[amazingracefan]

46 minutes ago, skybolt said:

Sarah taking advice from Ben on game play was a dumb move. Her blindsiding him at that point made zero sense, even if he put her up to it. It's like if Tony took out Ben instead of the true ring leader, which was Sophie at that time. Not only that, but the whole point of a blindside is that you want to show the jury that you were the mastermind behind that move. A.) Natalie and Michelle were the ring leaders in taking out Ben, and B.) Sarah and Ben hugging right after she blindsided him made it clear that he was in on it. It was such a stupid move orchestrated by none other than Ben.

There was a segment where they were talking about what a threat Ben would be at the fire challenge, I'm convinced much of the plan did come from Sarah and that she did want to vote for him.  It really doesn't make any sense otherwise.  The Ben edit has been weird all through to me and sometimes the audience has to read beyond the edit.  Whether it was the right move for her is another matter.  She didn't beat Tony at fire either anyway.  It was weird how it was presented as Ben's decision and not Sarah's, it was obviously hers and I believe it was what she wanted and very likely even put forward to Ben as what she would do. 

[Jordan3928537]

Heres a compilation with all the vote offs :)

https://youtu.be/98TaFCtVqq8

[amazingracefan]

That whole sidetrack about gender inequality seemed from that other rather maligned season we recently had.  We do get these attempts now at making Survivor more than just a reality show but a social issues one too, it always seems forced though.

[Lamb18]

14 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Also, I’m wondering if Sia doled out any sympathy money.

I was thinking maybe Sarah's speechifying about gender bias and perception in Survivor was in hopes of some Sia money.

[preeya]

Why did NONE of these so-called "best players ever" make any attempt at voting out KING TONY?

[princelina]

12 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

What the hell was that dead animal on top of Denise’s head? Did she pack that, or find it in the jungle on her way out of TC?

It was her David Bowie wig 😈

 

36 minutes ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

 

It's nice to know that we all saw through her BS with the gender equality card she tried to pull.  Don't get me wrong--I know gender bias is real and happens everyday.  But I don't think it occurs within this game as much as folks like to allege.   All of her tears and righteous emotion?  That's in direct response to how she's perceived by the viewers, not her fellow contestants.  If viewers find her arrogant, unlikeable and insufferable, don't use that as a reason to guilt jurors into a vote. If she really was going to be so powerful and own her game (what game?!) then she shouldn't let people run her off of Twitter.   

 

Also - right after that TC - SHE was not the one out all night in the dark sticking her hand into scary treeholes.  Just saying.

[Aaron Barnhart]

I predict EOE will be with us forever, or until they replace it with a lifebuoy floating 500 meters from shore. It’s too compelling, and as we saw last night, the jury has now baked in the design flaw. That’s why to quote Les Moonves (who was talking about a very different CBS show, or a sexual harassment case, I forget which) you can’t kill Survivor with a stick. All the bugs turn into features. Or get eaten. 

[blackwing]

46 minutes ago, amazingracefan said:

That whole sidetrack about gender inequality seemed from that other rather maligned season we recently had.  We do get these attempts now at making Survivor more than just a reality show but a social issues one too, it always seems forced though.

Yes, there are really issues at times on this show that need to be addressed.  Dan Spilo repeatedly touching multiple women.  The year that Will (?) went off on Shireen.  These are real issues, and unfortunately, Jeffy loves it and will do whatever he can to bring them into the show.  He alluded to the Dan Spilo incident last night.  Jeffy still wishes his talk show had taken off and that he would become the next Oprah.  I truly think that he thinks of himself as this beloved icon of the entertainment industry.  He sees a twerp jackhole like Ryan Seacrest with his multiple projects and duties and is probably wondering why that's not him. 

58 minutes ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

 

It's nice to know that we all saw through her BS with the gender equality card she tried to pull.  Don't get me wrong--I know gender bias is real and happens everyday.  But I don't think it occurs within this game as much as folks like to allege.   All of her tears and righteous emotion?  That's in direct response to how she's perceived by the viewers, not her fellow contestants.  If viewers find her arrogant, unlikeable and insufferable, don't use that as a reason to guilt jurors into a vote. If she really was going to be so powerful and own her game (what game?!) then she shouldn't let people run her off of Twitter.   

 

I agree, it was the viewers that thought she was a nasty witch.  Clearly the jury didn't the year she won, because they voted for her.  It just strikes me as complaining for the sake of complaining, and especially, to try and get some votes against Tony.  When she said that, she was clearly planning on running to the end with Tony, and she was already writing her "I'm not getting any credit for my moves because I'm a woman" speech.  Whatever.

This brings me back to her soliloquy from a few weeks ago that "Some people look at me and they think I'm funny.  That I'm smart.  That I'm pretty.  I'm so much more than that.  I am Lacina hear me roar."  Some here thought she was clearly joking.  I think that last night proved to me that she wasn't.  She truly is delusional and has a very high opinion of herself and if people don't share that same opinion, well then, they are just gender biased.

No.  Maybe she is just unlikeable.  And she has a hard time accepting it.  Her being unlikeable has nothing to do with being a woman.  There are plenty of arrogant and aggressive men on this show that I have found just as unlikeable, and it has nothing to do with them being a man.  Wendell and Dominick Abbate, to start.  Scottt Pollard and Kyle Jason.  Sarah said that a man could be arrogant and aggressive and viewed as powerful and dominant but a woman would be called a bitch.  I would submit these four as examples to prove her wrong.

Her speechifying last night also reminded me of the extremely unlikeable and delusional Angelina Keeley, and it made me realize they are very similar people.  I hated both of them because of their delusions and overconfidence and trying to claim more credit than they deserved.  And both ended up complaining about how people don't like them because they are a woman.

I hope to never see Sarah again.  But I have a feeling Jeffy will invite her back for the next returnee season, because he eats that kind of crap up.  He loved her "journey" and wants it to continue with another chance and another win.

Edited May 14, 2020 by blackwing

[sara416]

I think all three at the end played the game well in different ways and I would have been okay with any of them. 

I think the difference with Natalie coming back from EoE and winning rather than whe Chris did it a few seasons ago is that EoE was actually an active part of the game this season. I wasn't sure how I would feel about them having the fire tokens and being able to influence the game, but it meant that the people on EoE were actually still playing the game, and not just in a social way with building alliance with jury members. I think that is what made Natalie prove that she was able to win. Can you imagine how the Q&A would have gone if the first person voted out would have sat on EoE all season doing nothing and then been asked why she should win? She was absolutely an active part of things strategically. And damn, she made a lot of those physical challenges look easy (rope untangling aside). 

Sophie looked absolutely awful. Does anyone know what happened to her?

[amazingracefan]

The one thing I didn't mind was the bigger jury, that and Extinction were probably just to encourage more winners to turn up but there could be a benefit.  It does means players have to play hard from the start, people can't just be treated like crap because they aren't on a jury.  There could be a way to weigh jury members importance more the longer in the game they go, so some votes counts for more in some weighting system.  Also they joy at 'we've made jury so we're winners anyway' can end.

But Extinction itself feels like there's a kind of fake hardship that we have to hear about all the time.  They felt sad at leaving, enjoyed the sunsets and liked laying on the beach.  And when that final race came they all ran fully of energy like they were all in fine health.

Redemption Island actually had plenty more action, different elimination challenges every week and for someone to get back in the game they had to do a lot more.  Extinction was largely who's good at running, climbing and carrying, just some basic physical fitness.

[threebluestars]

Has the third person ever got any votes before? It never seems like it splits three ways at all. I prefer a final two.

[skybolt]

 

1 hour ago, amazingracefan said:

There was a segment where they were talking about what a threat Ben would be at the fire challenge, I'm convinced much of the plan did come from Sarah and that she did want to vote for him.  It really doesn't make any sense otherwise.  The Ben edit has been weird all through to me and sometimes the audience has to read beyond the edit.  Whether it was the right move for her is another matter.  She didn't beat Tony at fire either anyway.  It was weird how it was presented as Ben's decision and not Sarah's, it was obviously hers and I believe it was what she wanted and very likely even put forward to Ben as what she would do. 

If Sarah orchestrated this move to avoid going up against Ben in the fire making challenge, she badly miscalculated. If Michelle was voted out at 5, I can't see a scenario where those two go head to head in a fire making challenge. If Tony won immunity he would tell Ben to take out Natalie. Natalie would surely pit Ben against Tony. Sarah would not participate and Ben would either give up the immunity and go up against Tony or Natalie, or have Tony take on Natalie. Sarah was guaranteed final 3 if she didn't pull this or go along with it. Ben pretty much sealed both their fates.

[Ms Blue Jay]

15 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Forgive me but this particular title of two time winner is just not as "prestitgious" (lack of better words) because it was a season of winners. By default, that was gonna happen with the exception of Sandra of course.

I think it's the opposite, it's more "prestigious" to win against winners than non-winners.

Regardless, both Sandra and Tony are both two-time winners now, and I'm very happy for both.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, SoWindsor said:

I’d like to have seen Tony’s reaction to Sarah voting out Ben.

We did see it.  He was there, at tribal, reacting.  He was shocked.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[plurie]

I was rooting for Natalie, but Tony did play a better game this time around.

I think where Natalie messed up was in picking Michelle. She should have chosen Sarah. If Michelle beat Tony, he'd be gone and I think Nat would have won. If Tony won, Sarah and Tony would have had to turn on one another to convince the jury that they were the one "in charge" and Nat would have had a chance. And I also think that Michelle had a better chance of beating Tony in the fire-making.

No way should Nat have given away her immunity to take on Tony herself. Unless she thought she was the bestest fire-maker ever, this was not a risk worth taking, no matter what Rob says.

[skybolt]

2 minutes ago, plurie said:

I was rooting for Natalie, but Tony did play a better game this time around.

I think where Natalie messed up was in picking Michelle. She should have chosen Sarah. If Michelle beat Tony, he'd be gone and I think Nat would have won. If Tony won, Sarah and Tony would have had to turn on one another to convince the jury that they were the one "in charge" and Nat would have had a chance. And I also think that Michelle had a better chance of beating Tony in the fire-making.

No way should Nat have given away her immunity to take on Tony herself. Unless she thought she was the bestest fire-maker ever, this was not a risk worth taking, no matter what Rob says.

She lost via a 12-4 vote. It was a risk worth taking. Tony, Sarah and Michelle were practicing all day to get decent. She could've done the same thing.

[Growsonwalls]

I really, really feel like the current events affected the editing of this season. Especially this finale -- they didn't want to bury anyone with their edits. It's understandable. People are losing family members left and right across the U.S. They didn't want to make anyone look truly awful with the editing. 

[skybolt]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why Sarah and Ben were so sure Natalie didn't have an idol. Didn't they just witness her winning the return challenge with all the advantages she acquired via fire tokens? It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together to figure out she was behind the extortion advantage and some of the other ones. Sarah was thinking more like Ben this episode than Tony.

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, threebluestars said:

Has the third person ever got any votes before? It never seems like it splits three ways at all. I prefer a final two.

It's happened occasionally. China (15), San Juan Del Sur (29), and Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers (35), for example.

 

42 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

4 hours ago, SoWindsor said:

I’d like to have seen Tony’s reaction to Sarah voting out Ben.

We did see it.  He was there, at tribal, reacting.  He was shocked.

Shocked with a smile, though! 

[blackwing]

14 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I really, really feel like the current events affected the editing of this season. Especially this finale -- they didn't want to bury anyone with their edits. It's understandable. People are losing family members left and right across the U.S. They didn't want to make anyone look truly awful with the editing. 

I am not so sure... this series was filmed last summer - May 22 to June 29, 2019.  I would have thought the editing would have been completed long before the onset of any COVID-19.  The show started airing in early February, at a time when COVID was around but definitely nobody was in lockdown and it hadn't exploded like it has now.  I think the editing would have been done by January 1 at the latest.  And they wouldn't edit episodes as they go along, I think they would want to finish the editing on the whole season to make sure they tell the story they want told.

Certain people definitely got a "clueless" edit... Nick for one.  Adam's edit wasn't great either.  Jeremy was edited to look like an idiot, to the point where a new viewer might be amazed that he won once before.  Sarah didn't get a great edit.  Neither did Ben.

Rob Mariano was edited to look like a bully - forced everyone to dump out their bags, made everyone sit in the playpen, and clearly influenced the vote against Natalie.  I was surprised because it seems to me that Amber had really bonded with Natalie and praised her for her path.  But in the end she falls in line with her bully of a husband and votes as he directs her to.  For all the talk of growth... it seems to me she was transformed back into Jerri's sidekick from Season 2, ohmigawding her way through the season and doing exactly what someone else told her to do.

12 minutes ago, skybolt said:

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why Sarah and Ben were so sure Natalie didn't have an idol. Didn't they just witness her winning the return challenge with all the advantages she acquired via fire tokens? It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together to figure out she was behind the extortion advantage and some of the other ones. Sarah was thinking more like Ben this episode than Tony.

It goes along with their delusions and sense of entitlement.  I wouldn't be surprised if their line of thinking was something like "the three of us are in control of the game, and it would be so unfair for them to punish us for dominating this game by letting her have an idol to come back with.  This is a season of winners, and they wouldn't screw over winners like that."