S40.E13: The Penultimate Step of War

[skybolt]

Even though Ben will get zero votes, it may make more sense for Tony to bring Denise or Michelle to the end with him and Sarah to split the women's jury vote. I think Denise is the better option because I can see Amber and Danni voting for her, while Kim and Sophie may go for Sarah.

[Cornhusker12]

23 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

This whole fire coin thing has been poorly explained and handled by the show.  I had no idea that they were supplementing their food supply by using their fire coins to buy rice for the tribe.  No wonder we hardly ever saw anyone out in the bay spearfishing or foraging, or scraping and toasting coconut at camp.  They just go to the Survivor bodega down the beach and pick up supplies.  Not until last night when Denise explicitly talked about cooking up a big portion of rice, then using her fire token to buy another bag for the rest of the tribe did I realize that's what they were doing.  It does put an interesting dynamic into the game, who hoards their tokens for personal use, who spends their tokens for the good of the tribe...  Interesting only if they actually show it, that is.  Yeah, they show us when people needed extra tokens to buy this or that advantage dangling in front of them, but that isn't as interesting as the deeper token game being played.

Completely agree, I can't stand it. I don't like the gimmicks in the first place, but if you're going to do the gimmicks why keep the newer/convoluted parts of the game so unexplained for the entire season? Fire tokens and Edge of Extinction both feel completely tacked onto the already-existing game of Survivor and have barely added any excitement or intrigue.

I just listened to Chuck Klosterman talk about this season on a podcast and he had a lot of interesting things to say about the state of the show in general, and particularly this bit about the fire tokens: "If people crashed on a desert island and had to survive, I don't think they would be like 'one of the first things we need to do is fabricate an economy!' It's just a weird thing to add, it's moving it back toward actual life... As a viewer, I don't want to see people this comfortable. Being able to purchase a 24 ounce tub of peanut butter? That doesn't really seem like a 'survival' world."

[AntFTW]

Specifically looking at the social aspect of the game, I'm starting to think Sarah believes her social game will beat Tony's (thinking back to the episode where they did the 2020 Survivor Fashion Week lol).

Sarah hasn't really pissed anyone off. I'm beginning to think that Sarah thinks her social game is better and therefore will deliver her the win, even if Tony is at the F3 with her. However, I wouldn't be quick to downplay Tony's social game compared to Sarah's. Tony's social game is why he's controlling the game thus far. He's been able to build trust and maneuver back and forth between alliances seamlessly.

Edited May 8, 2020 by AntFTW

[BonnieD]

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Natalie should get back into the game. Given the number of tokens she wound up obtaining, she should have been able to buy her way back outright. 

I believe most people are rooting for her. I certainly am. I said to my husband last night, wouldn't it be a hoot if the Big Twist this season was that the person with the most fire tokens wins the entire game. Period. Take that, fans! 

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, Cornhusker12 said:

I just listened to Chuck Klosterman talk about this season on a podcast and he had a lot of interesting things to say about the state of the show in general, and particularly this bit about the fire tokens: "If people crashed on a desert island and had to survive, I don't think they would be like 'one of the first things we need to do is fabricate an economy!' It's just a weird thing to add, it's moving it back toward actual life... As a viewer, I don't want to see people this comfortable. Being able to purchase a 24 ounce tub of peanut butter? That doesn't really seem like a 'survival' world."

What is he talking about?  Since when has Survivor been about actual surviving?  I remember way back in the summer of 2000 with Gretchen the air force veteran who said after the show aired that she truly had thought when she applied for the show that it would be about actual survival skills.  The early years, they certainly seemed to get a bag of rice and were expected to do whatever they could to get more food.  TAAAAPeeohcah!  Then somewhere along the way, apart from fishing, they seem to have stopped hunting for food.  Whether it was because of the abundance of rewards or the fact that the local government didn't want them doing it, I don't know.  But complaining about them getting peanut butter is pretty much complaining about every single merge feast or reward.

I don't mind the fire tokens, I think it makes things more interesting.  But I would have loved to have seen more discussions about these... if someone buys peanut butter, and doesn't share, how does that add to the game?  Do people hold grudges against those that are perceived to be selfish?  What about sharing with someone not in your alliance?  Or pooling tokens together?  I feel like we didn't get any of these answers and I'd like to know what impact they had on the game.

[skybolt]

1 hour ago, Cornhusker12 said:

Completely agree, I can't stand it. I don't like the gimmicks in the first place, but if you're going to do the gimmicks why keep the newer/convoluted parts of the game so unexplained for the entire season? Fire tokens and Edge of Extinction both feel completely tacked onto the already-existing game of Survivor and have barely added any excitement or intrigue.

 

I completely agree. Add to that someone like Nick makes it to Day 35 and now has to go to EoE without any tokens or advantages. In contrast, Natalie has been there since Day 1 and gotten really familiar with her surroundings to figure out the clues. Not only that, I hate the fact that everyone gets together on EoE and helps each other out. Parvati helped Natalie startegize to figure out who to target for the extortion, as well as lead everyone away from camp, and that apparently from the goodness of her heart. Then this time around everyone gets together, sings kumbaya, and helps Natalie target someone for the challenge disadvantage. This is not Survivor folks. I absolutely hate EoE. I guarantee that most people who want Natalie back to win the game either A.) dislike the remaining players or B.) really like Natalie. If Boston Rob makes it back, the same people will be saying how stupid EoE is and that producers are rigging it for him. 

[AncientNewbie]

19 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I'm not entirely clear on what was Nick's plan. Give the disadvantage to Ben so that Michele or Nick wins... and then what?

 

245% speculating, but Ben seems to be the link that ties Denise to the larger Tony/Sarah/sometimes Ben group. Cutting Ben loose maybe frees up Denise for Nick/Michelle? Although speaking of Nick and Michelle like there was any coordination is weak...

[skybolt]

5 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I don't mind the fire tokens, I think it makes things more interesting.  But I would have loved to have seen more discussions about these... if someone buys peanut butter, and doesn't share, how does that add to the game?  Do people hold grudges against those that are perceived to be selfish?  What about sharing with someone not in your alliance?  Or pooling tokens together?  I feel like we didn't get any of these answers and I'd like to know what impact they had on the game.

This is a key point. If they wanted us to care about EoE and fall in love with how a certain player is operating, then extend the show to 1:30 and give us 15-20 minutes of edge each week. Heck, throw in reward challenges and give some food to the winner. Add some dynamics to it vs. everyone starving and feeling miserable all the time. I can get that watching a show where they just throw 10 people in the woods and let scavenge for food. 

[iMonrey]

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Michelle did a great job trying to convince Sarah that she cannot beat Tony.

Did she? Unless I missed something, there was no indication it made any impression on Sarah whatsoever. What I saw was Michelle doing that passive aggressive thing with her head down (they appeared to be painting something), without making any eye contact, and quietly pouting that things weren't going her way, while Sarah tried her best to downplay her fears to no avail. By the time Michelle got around to bringing up Tony's name she'd already given away whatever leverage she might have had by wasting so much time whining how badly she was doing in the game. It felt very desperate and pathetic. She's right about Tony but her presentation utterly failed her.

I'd have been more impressed if she'd confronted Sarah the same way she did with Nick: ask her straight-up, what exactly is your path to winning if you are sitting next to Tony? Explain that to me. 

[AncientNewbie]

I don't want to sound like a Michele stan because she's a mixed bag for me, but I can totally see how one might approach Sarah and Nick differently. Sarah doesn't react well to being confronted and gets defensive, so Michele tries to play to her mom/cop caretaker side. Nick is a Southern Man (tm, Bobby Jon and Jamie, s11) and an attorney where direct confrontation is more acceptable.

Or it's exactly as @iMonrey said it...I don't know anymore. The inconsistent narrative this whole season has me filling in way too much in my head about hows and whys.

[jabRI]

Natalie for the win.  Felt so bad for the poor girl when she was showing off her fire tokens, those dirty fingernails.  Imagine a month of not being able to get really clean.

[JudyObscure]

31 minutes ago, AncientNewbie said:

Nick is a Southern Man (tm, Bobby Jon and Jamie, s11) and an attorney where direct confrontation is more acceptable.

I agree Nick  handles direct confrontation well, but I have a clear memory* of Bobby Jon going all, "She can't tell me what to do! I'm a grown ass man!" over some unfortunate older woman who had suggested they all keep their machetes under the same tree.  She was voted out next.

*Many of my clear memories turn out to be wrong so it's possible it was someone else.

[AncientNewbie]

@JudyObscure your recollection is probably better than mine, but just yesterday I watched those two s11 contestants grunting like baboons at each other and then saying "Well, we're Southern" so it stuck in my mind.

But it's like Denise snapping at Jeremy a couple eps ago. It may have been something or may have been not, because everyone has different interaction styles and we don't get to see all of it.

I'm just cynical this season. For all I know, Wendell and Michele had one conversation that's been spliced and redubbed ten times and she's not out of the loop but intentionally voting "wrong" to look harmless. I really don't think she's playing 4D chess, but I can't rule much out given that Tony in Trees is the theme of the season.

Random thing for the hivemind: I thought I saw on the Jeremy boot though--when the jury comes in, is Wendell wearing Danni's sparkly KC shirt under his jacket?

[skybolt]

15 minutes ago, jabRI said:

Natalie for the win.  Felt so bad for the poor girl when she was showing off her fire tokens, those dirty fingernails.  Imagine a month of not being able to get really clean.

Rudy lost over 30 pounds at the age of 72 while playing 39 days, and drinking non boiled dirty water. Let's give him the million dollars over Richard Hatch.

[ljenkins782]

On 5/7/2020 at 10:33 AM, Fallacy said:

If Tony makes it to the end, he should win. 

Also, Nick is an absolute moron voting out Jeremy instead of Ben. As Michelle so accurately noted, he had no path to the final 3 after that vote.

Nick made the mistake of looking too far ahead. He was looking at who he wanted to sit next to in the end and not worrying enough about actually getting there. Jeremy has won very few immunities and has been a giant bullseye of a target for a long time, better to keep him in and take out one of the members of Tony's alliance. Nick was sitting right there when Tony spilled the beans of Jeremy's plot to oust Ben, he knew Tony wasn't actually working with Jeremy. I was rooting for Nick, but he shot himself in the foot.

I thought Nick's "advantage" kinda sucked for someone in his position. Crippling just one person at the immunity challenge is only an advantage if you have a group to back you up in booting them while they're vulnerable. If he'd had a steal a vote or double vote, he could have really shaken up the game, but this didn't do much at all.

Quote

 

Did she? Unless I missed something, there was no indication it made any impression on Sarah whatsoever. What I saw was Michelle doing that passive aggressive thing with her head down (they appeared to be painting something), without making any eye contact, and quietly pouting that things weren't going her way, while Sarah tried her best to downplay her fears to no avail. By the time Michelle got around to bringing up Tony's name she'd already given away whatever leverage she might have had by wasting so much time whining how badly she was doing in the game. It felt very desperate and pathetic. She's right about Tony but her presentation utterly failed her.

I'd have been more impressed if she'd confronted Sarah the same way she did with Nick: ask her straight-up, what exactly is your path to winning if you are sitting next to Tony? Explain that to me. 

 

IIRC, it only motivated Sarah to get Michele out. And agreed that it was a bit weak and passive. It's rare that a person on the bottom can convince a player in the majority group that they're making a mistake (even when it's true), it's always written off as a last-ditch effort by someone on their way out the door. 

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Of the people left I would like to see a Tony, Michelle, Natalie final three. Tony may be annoying to some but he is always hustling. He works hard at the game and never stops. He cracks me up spying on everyone in the secret tree house.

I feel like Tony's even hustling in his talking head interviews. His spiel about not wanting to take goats to the final because it's an all winners season seemed like calculated BS to me. He's totally taking Ben to the end for the goat factor. The guy has made zero moves that he can point to besides tucking himself under Tony's wing. He was part of the group that booted Boston Rob, but that was handed to him on a silver platter by the tribal shakeup and Sarah was also part of that group (and a more controlling party, IIRC). 

And it remains to be seen if Tony will actually stick by Sarah if he has control over the final votes. I can 100% see him sending her to make fire vs Ben knowing that she'll likely lose and he can keep his goat Ben and whoever else is left. 

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

I thought Nick's "advantage" kinda sucked for someone in his position. Crippling just one person at the immunity challenge is only an advantage if you have a group to back you up in booting them while they're vulnerable.

Yes and it meant he had to share the advantage with everyone but Ben.  So much better to have given Nick four fewer blocks.

[Jobiska]

Wildlife cam:  So this time they showed a frog or frogs hopping around the nighttime campsite!  Usually it's a rat or a snake 😄  

I'm one of the few who doesn't mind TC whispering, and these two TCs really bore home to me what we get instead if they just sit there:  Jeff going on and on and ON with questions we've heard in a million different forms.  I did laugh when Michele used Jeff's blue shirt and khakis as an analogy in one of her answers.  She's still not my favorite, but that, even more than the immunity shimmy, did endear her to me a little.

With that, it IS....time to post.

[Dominii]

On 5/6/2020 at 8:47 PM, Maggie Mae said:

Michele is getting prettier as the days go by...

Yeah, isn't that something? I think it has to do with her finally putting her big girl pants on and deciding that she will not go gentle into that bad Edge of Extinction night.  She has an aura and a light in her eyes that was missing before.  I never would have thought that I'd be rooting for her to win, but it seems like she has finally come into her own.

I'm still rooting for Tony too.  How stupid everyone has been to keep him on!!!  They could have voted him out and didn't because they're idiots!  Good God, what a bunch of losers.

How boring to have someone come back from EOE.  Since we do have to suffer through this, I hope that my boy Yul makes it back.  If not him, then maybe Ethan or Parv.

[skybolt]

So with Denise buying the rice for 5 tokens, did that basically solidify the votes towards Nick? What I mean is that although it was mentioned that someone from EoE may have sent the disadvantage directly to Ben, wouldn't he have been asked to pay up like Tony did? No matter how you slice it, I'm confident that Tony/Ben/Sarah put 2 and 2 together and figured out that a remaining player made the conscious decision to pay for that disadvantage, even if the EoE player had picked Ben as the target (which was not the case). With Tony having 0 tokens and Sarah being a strong ally, when Denise used her tokens to buy the rice, it likely signaled to everyone that either Nick or Michelle had pulled the trigger. Since Michelle was safe, Nick was next on the chopping blocks. 

[skybolt]

Just finished re-watching the episode and had a couple of thoughts:

I didn't notice it the first time, but loved Sophie's reaction to Adam asking if Denise's move was a bluff. She mouthed "I don't know", but did it in a way where someone is trying to shush another person behind them in a movie theater.

I'm still not 100% sure about the token count, but now I actually think Natalie's move to buy Tyson an idol is genius. At first I assumed (as others did) that they miscalculated and she had 16 tokens in her possession (6 for 3 advantages, 6 for the immunity idol for Tyson and 4 for peanut butter from the new menu). However, she clearly says that she had 14 tokens, which means she had already spent 2 of her tokens a while back (maybe for a slice of pizza or something). I then noticed that Tyson's token count was actually zero (even though he earned 2 at the coconut challenge when he finished 4th with Parvati). What this tells me is that he likely pooled his 2 tokens with Natalie's remaining 4 to buy the immunity idol. The reason why this a genius move by Natalie is that her 4 remaining tokens and the idol purchased for Tyson mean nothing to her game. However, keeping the challenge beast from purchasing 1 advantage with his 2 fire tokens would give her a better shot to win the return challenge. It also makes sense for Tyson to get the idol, since even if he wins the challenge, they'll likely vote him out first. If this is truly what she planned (in addition to getting Tyson's vote if she makes final tribal), it was definitely genius.

[srhall79]

When the sliding puzzle came out, I knew Tony's immunity run was at an end. There was a moment where I thought he almost had it, then noticed at least three pieces way out of place. Not that he needs immunity with an alliance that seems to want nothing so much as to put him in the final. I believe that if Tony makes it to FTC with any two of Denise, Sarah, and Ben, Tony wins and will deserve it.

When Denise said she was done at the last episode, I took it to just mean she was done talking about that vote, not with the whole game. But, she does seem like she's content to get 4th or a 0-vote 3rd. Voting out Sandra was cool, but it feels more like Sandra's failure than Denise's accomplishment. She didn't have to do anything besides sit there and let Sandra's greed override her sense.

Sarah's place in FTC seems like the "I was by his side, making all the decisions along with him (except when he blindsided the people closer to me)." Has that ever been a winning position? The toothpick thing bugged me about Wendell, isn't any better on Sarah.

I'm seeing Michelle in a better light, though not a huge fan. She did pull off immunity when she needed it (and it looked like Tony tried his dominoes and it would have failed. I wonder if Ben's would have worked?)

I wondered if Rob bringing up his idol was a clue that he was getting back in. But I think it might have been building up to the reminder that Natalie still has one. I'd like it if she got back in and won. I hope she at least gets more money than what the first vote off usually gets.

It sounded like real emotion coming from Tyson when talking about the idol, not his usual default sarcasm. 

[30 Helens]

15 hours ago, skybolt said:

Even though Ben will get zero votes,

Are you sure about that? The majority here may dislike him, but I get the sense that he is generally well regarded by the other players (excepting Jeremy).

13 hours ago, skybolt said:

Not only that, I hate the fact that everyone gets together on EoE and helps each other out. Parvati helped Natalie startegize to figure out who to target for the extortion, as well as lead everyone away from camp, and that apparently from the goodness of her heart. Then this time around everyone gets together, sings kumbaya, and helps Natalie target someone for the challenge disadvantage. This is not Survivor folks.

But isn’t it? People on Survivor work together and help each other out all the time. It’s called alliances.

11 hours ago, skybolt said:

Rudy lost over 30 pounds at the age of 72 while playing 39 days, and drinking non boiled dirty water. Let's give him the million dollars over Richard Hatch.

Fine by me!! (A little too late, though. 😥)

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, srhall79 said:

I'm seeing Michelle in a better light, though not a huge fan. She did pull off immunity when she needed it

With the help of Nick's advantage.  If Nick hadn't used that, Ben might have won and Michelle would have been out.  The "advantage" really ruined Nick.  Now Whiny Michelle has turned into Cocky Michelle who does victory dances and kids around with Jeff.  If she wins it will be just what this season deserves.

[Eolivet]

I was rewatching the episode and I wasn't sure if Nick said this wrong, or was technically right, but with an odd interpretation of these concepts.

Nick was talking about how he had six fire tokens, but never had anyone approach him: "I have all the demand and none of the supply."

Now if he has fire tokens (supply), but nobody approaching him (demand), wouldn't he have "all the supply, and none of the demand?"

Unless he was interpreting "demand" as "I have demand for advantages" and "supply" as "advantages offered." Which is such an odd way to look at it, but maybe that's what he meant?

Forget who's going to win the game: this is what's been keeping me up at night.

[AntFTW]

14 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

I was rewatching the episode and I wasn't sure if Nick said this wrong, or was technically right, but with an odd interpretation of these concepts.

Nick was talking about how he had six fire tokens, but never had anyone approach him: "I have all the demand and none of the supply."

Now if he has fire tokens (supply), but nobody approaching him (demand), wouldn't he have "all the supply, and none of the demand?"

Unless he was interpreting "demand" as "I have demand for advantages" and "supply" as "advantages offered." Which is such an odd way to look at it, but maybe that's what he meant?

Forget who's going to win the game: this is what's been keeping me up at night.

I interpreted that as Nick’s demand for advantages and no one willing to supply him with any.

[peachmangosteen]

 

19 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

Random thing for the hivemind: I thought I saw on the Jeremy boot though--when the jury comes in, is Wendell wearing Danni's sparkly KC shirt under his jacket?

I just went back and rewatched and he did indeed have on her bedazzled Chiefs shirt.

10 hours ago, skybolt said:

I didn't notice it the first time, but loved Sophie's reaction to Adam asking if Denise's move was a bluff. She mouthed "I don't know", but did it in a way where someone is trying to shush another person behind them in a movie theater.

Sophie looked 100% done this whole ep. She's over it lol.

[AntFTW]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

With the help of Nick's advantage.  If Nick hadn't used that, Ben might have won and Michelle would have been out.  The "advantage" really ruined Nick.  Now Whiny Michelle has turned into Cocky Michelle who does victory dances and kids around with Jeff.  If she wins it will be just what this season deserves.

I think Nick was ultimately doomed no matter what. Without the advantage, he would have survived one more TC assuming Michele didn't win the challenge. The moment he got caught in that lie about blindsiding Tony, Nick was playing from the bottom ever since... he just didn't know it. The moment Nick voted out Jeremy, his game was over.

He must've thought his acting skills were flawless.

[JudyObscure]

I don't think you can ever be sure who will go out next, particularly this late in the game.  The reasons Nick has been on the bottom until now might be the very reasons people want to keep him as they head into the finals.

[Josh371982]

On 5/8/2020 at 11:28 AM, skybolt said:

I think this is exactly why Tony took out Sophie. He wanted to eliminate her numbers so she's forced to stay loyal to him. 

I don't believe anyone knows anything about Natalie having an idol. I highly doubt her and Rob told Tyson anything last time around before he came back. I don't think idols can be shared after the challenge ends.

I don't agree with this "triumvirate of evil" statement being tossed around to describe Tony and Sarah. Just because they're playing the game doesn't make them evil. It's not like they're burning people's socks or berating them. They are playing survivor to win just like everyone else.

Man fuck that. Sarah wasnt forced to do Jack shit. She looks stupid and Pathetic crawling back to Tony. She couldve easily tried to get others and Target Tony

On 5/8/2020 at 11:28 AM, skybolt said:

I think this is exactly why Tony took out Sophie. He wanted to eliminate her numbers so she's forced to stay loyal to him. 

I don't believe anyone knows anything about Natalie having an idol. I highly doubt her and Rob told Tyson anything last time around before he came back. I don't think idols can be shared after the challenge ends.

I don't agree with this "triumvirate of evil" statement being tossed around to describe Tony and Sarah. Just because they're playing the game doesn't make them evil. It's not like they're burning people's socks or berating them. They are playing survivor to win just like everyone else.

Doesnt look like anyone is playing to win to me except maybe Michelle everyone else wants Tony to win the way they are playing 

[Josh371982]

8 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

With the help of Nick's advantage.  If Nick hadn't used that, Ben might have won and Michelle would have been out.  The "advantage" really ruined Nick.  Now Whiny Michelle has turned into Cocky Michelle who does victory dances and kids around with Jeff.  If she wins it will be just what this season deserves.

Victory Dances? You mean the one? LOL oh please people like Tony have been way cockier it's one reason I cant stand him. Calls himself a "Lion" GAG 

[meep.meep]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I don't think you can ever be sure who will go out next, particularly this late in the game.  The reasons Nick has been on the bottom until now might be the very reasons people want to keep him as they head into the finals.

Didn't he just get voted out?

There's Tony, Sarah, Denise, Ben, and Michelle left.  With someone else coming back from EoE.

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, Josh371982 said:

Victory Dances? You mean the one? LOL oh please people like Tony have been way cockier it's one reason I cant stand him. Calls himself a "Lion" GAG 

She also did some sort of nah-nan-na-na hip wiggling thing, maybe not a dance exactly, but obnoxious in it's own right.  What I don't see is what my dislike of Michelle has to do with Tony. I wasn't comparing her with him or anyone else.  

[violet and green]

7 hours ago, Josh371982 said:

Victory Dances? You mean the one?

She did two Victory Dances, publicly, one after she played her 50/50 token successfully, and one after she won immunity, both equally dorky, and then she did a nyahnyahnyahnyahya complete with handwiggle on ears in a confessional.

7 hours ago, Josh371982 said:

Doesnt look like anyone is playing to win to me except maybe Michelle everyone else wants Tony to win the way they are playing 

Cannot wait for Michele's final tribal council speech: I tried really really hard, but weirdly I was on the wrong side of the votes most of the time and nobody wanted to work with me, my social game is however excellent, what's that describe my strategy?, don't be mean, you big meanies, booohooohooo... You win again!

Edited May 10, 2020 by violet and green
typo

[Josh371982]

9 hours ago, violet and green said:

She did two Victory Dances, publicly, one after she played her 50/50 token successfully, and one after she won immunity, both equally dorky, and then she did a nyahnyahnyahnyahya complete with handwiggle on ears in a confessional.

Cannot wait for Michele's final tribal council speech: I tried really really hard, but weirdly I was on the wrong side of the votes most of the time and nobody wanted to work with me, my social game is however excellent, what's that describe my strategy?, don't be mean, you big meanies, booohooohooo... You win again!

She probably wont win. Still like her a hell of a lot more than a an Arrogant Punchable face annoying Jackass flip flopper who calls himself a lion and his sheep who stupidly think they can beat him like Sarah who should know better. Screwed her over how many times and she keeps taking it. 

[North of Eden]

I didn't realize how much I don't care about this season until the other night after Jeremey got voted out and I knew Ben was staying. I didn't even watch the second hour until the next night.

This whole thing is just going to be a cluster F. I mean I want Natalie to get back in but what' the  point...she'll just be voted right back out again and even if she did somehow manage to win the season it will be forever a "tainted win" like the last time when someone sat out almost  the entire season and then wins like someone slipping into the Boston Marathon in the last half mile and taking the prize.

Please stop now with Tyson, Boston Rob, Sandra  even people I like such as Jeremy...after 40 seasons...its time to MOVE ON...let's build up a whole new crop of superstars for the next I don't  know 20 seasons but it's time to say goodbye to these people...they've had their time in the sun. Borrowing from Elsa if I may be so bold...Let THEM go! Let THEM go! Let THEM go!

[peachmangosteen]

29 minutes ago, North of Eden said:

Please stop now with Tyson, Boston Rob, Sandra  even people I like such as Jeremy...after 40 seasons...its time to MOVE ON...let's build up a whole new crop of superstars for the next I don't  know 20 seasons but it's time to say goodbye to these people...they've had their time in the sun. Borrowing from Elsa if I may be so bold...Let THEM go! Let THEM go! Let THEM go!

+ 1 million

[AncientNewbie]

1 hour ago, North of Eden said:

Please stop now with Tyson, Boston Rob, Sandra  even people I like such as Jeremy...after 40 seasons...its time to MOVE ON...let's build up a whole new crop of superstars for the next I don't  know 20 seasons but it's time to say goodbye to these people...they've had their time in the sun. Borrowing from Elsa if I may be so bold...Let THEM go! Let THEM go! Let THEM go!

Very much so. I like some of these players quite a bit but the stalwarts are getting a bit grizzled. I’m ready for some fresh blood, either new players or second timers.  

[North of Eden]

8 minutes ago, AncientNewbie said:

Very much so. I like some of these players quite a bit but the stalwarts are getting a bit grizzled. I’m ready for some fresh blood, either new players or second timers.  

The ONLY people I would welcome back at this point would be a suggestion I've seen on the forums here for years:  all FIRST BOOTS....especially ones removed on the flimsiest grounds.

[amazingracefan]

The challenges on Extinction are largely a lot of racing to somewhere, basic.

The Denise story of being ok with going didn't seem very convincing.  It was hard for the editors to create suspense.

Nick's advantage ended up helping Michele survive, so it ironically sealed his own fate.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Doesnt look like anyone is playing to win to me except maybe Michelle everyone else wants Tony to win the way they are playing

They probably all think nobody would ever vote for Tony since he's so "kooky" and back-stabbed so many people. This, despite the fact that he did win once. But I disagree Michelle is the only one playing to win just because she recognizes that Tony would win in the F3. Even if she managed to get Tony voted out and got to the F3 herself I'm not sure she would win. She's just been on the wrong side of the vote too many times and doesn't seem to have been a factor driving the game the whole season.

Quote

Doesnt look like anyone is playing to win to me except maybe Michelle everyone else wants Tony to win the way they are playing

They probably all think nobody would ever vote for Tony since he's so "kooky" and back-stabbed so many people. This, despite the fact that he did win once. But I disagree Michelle is the only one playing to win just because she recognizes that Tony would win in the F3. Even if she managed to get Tony voted out and got to the F3 herself I'm not sure she would win. She's just been on the wrong side of the vote too many times and doesn't seem to have been a factor driving the game the whole season.

[Guest]

Quote

Well this special did its job of getting me excited for the season. I kind of wish it could just stay like this forever, with all the promise and potential and anticipation, without actually airing and risking disappointment.

This was what I said after they aired the preview special back in February. If I had only known...

[skybolt]

If the fire tokens are here to stay, something has to change if EoE ever returns. What I dislike about EoE the most is how much of an advantage someone voted out early has over someone making it far into the game before getting voted out. Is it really fair for someone like Kim to make it this far into the game, but have to give up her 3 tokens before going to EoE? On the flip side, not only did Natalie have all the time in the world to collect fire tokens, but was also able help or mess up people's games by sending advantages, and socialize with a majority of the players in this game. If EoE does come back, I really hope that after the first challenge, whomever doesn't get back in the game is sent to Ponderosa. There has to be some disadvantage for getting voted out early.

[blackwing]

10 hours ago, North of Eden said:

The ONLY people I would welcome back at this point would be a suggestion I've seen on the forums here for years:  all FIRST BOOTS....especially ones removed on the flimsiest grounds.

Francesca!  I have no idea however if she would even want to come back for a third time.  And I'd love to see how Nadiya would play... although I feel like she could get booted first again because people would be afraid she'd be as fierce as her sister.

I'm also on board with the runners-up idea.  I bet Jeffy would be too, I'm sure he'd love to have both CULPEPPER and CULPEPPER in the same season again.

[TzuShih]

On 4/27/2020 at 7:24 AM, cynicat said:

 I'm still wondering how Denise fits into the equation.  The way she was talking, it's like she's a solid member of his alliance, but since when?  Her game play has been puzzling, it seems like she's just following the numbers.  And I agree, besides the Sandra move, what does she have going for her?  She said she found an idol, but is anyone impressed by that?  Other people found idols.  Other people actually had  advantages sent to them from EOE (or disadvantages).

This is (or seems to be) Denise's "Last Chance Kitchen." OOOOPS...I mean 'Final Three bid.'  She's quite the actor!  But if I was casting, she would not get the part. ☺️ She 'SEEMED' to be setting herself up so that her teammates would think that she was a defeatist (in front of the Jury) and that that would make her an excellent candidate to take to the Final Three.  (Hoping that her 'tribe' would think:  "Wow!  She's shown weakness & resignation, and so the jury will not vote for her.")  But...she obviously has "other plans" to NEGATE that "woe is me role" WHEN & IF she gets to the end.  Will it work?  Who knows.  BUT - one of the jurors - I think it was Adam - figured out what she was doing and whispered to the jury member next to him:  "Fake Out!"  SOoooo...IF she get to the end, the jury may just possibly see her 'set-up' as a "power move."  The plot is ever afoot!! ;->  (I've been a fan of Denise, but she's confusing me now with her choices, & I am curious to see HOW she'd handle herself if she made it to the Final 3.)

One other thought...  Natalie is playing the game with heart & soul.  Certainly eons above some of the actual remaining tribe members (so little time...so many lame Tribal Council moves!!).  She may have been immediately targeted because it was obvious that she was such a strong competitor, but her spirit & game on E0E SO outranks the remaining tribe players.  Hope she can fight her way back.  Go Twinnie!

 

 

[amazingracefan]

Natalie has had an amazing edit, still don't want her to come back though.  Anyone who does come back won't win anyway, so it feels pointless to me.  At least someone on Redemption Island had to win a challenge every week, and a variety of challenges as well.

[skybolt]

8 hours ago, TzuShih said:

This is (or seems to be) Denise's "Last Chance Kitchen." OOOOPS...I mean 'Final Three bid.'  She's quite the actor!  But if I was casting, she would not get the part. ☺️ She 'SEEMED' to be setting herself up so that her teammates would think that she was a defeatist (in front of the Jury) and that that would make her an excellent candidate to take to the Final Three.  (Hoping that her 'tribe' would think:  "Wow!  She's shown weakness & resignation, and so the jury will not vote for her.")  But...she obviously has "other plans" to NEGATE that "woe is me role" WHEN & IF she gets to the end.  Will it work?  Who knows.  BUT - one of the jurors - I think it was Adam - figured out what she was doing and whispered to the jury member next to him:  "Fake Out!"  SOoooo...IF she get to the end, the jury may just possibly see her 'set-up' as a "power move."  The plot is ever afoot!! ;->  (I've been a fan of Denise, but she's confusing me now with her choices, & I am curious to see HOW she'd handle herself if she made it to the Final 3.)

One other thought...  Natalie is playing the game with heart & soul.  Certainly eons above some of the actual remaining tribe members (so little time...so many lame Tribal Council moves!!).  She may have been immediately targeted because it was obvious that she was such a strong competitor, but her spirit & game on E0E SO outranks the remaining tribe players.  Hope she can fight her way back.  Go Twinnie!

 

 

The problem with Denise is that her reactions come off as being very confusing to viewers and probably to some of the jury. It's hard to tell if she's joking, being sarcastic, playing the role of a defeatist, angry, motivated, etc. For instance, I noticed that she got up and whispered to a couple of people before shushing Jeremy. If I was part of jury I would be confused as to whether it was a power move, was she just fed up, is she just done playing the game in general, does she hate Jeremy, etc.? I had the same feeling when Nick did that wild call after being voted out. The rest of the group either laughed or smiled,  but I had no clue what her facial expression / shaking of the head was supposed to mean. It was like she was amused, confused, dismissive and embarrassed all at the same time.

Even her closest ally in the game Adam was confused as to whether she was bluffing or not. Sophie said I don't know when he asked her and Parvati and Kim seemed confused. I bet if she makes final tribal and was asked by the jury if she was bluffing, she would reply "yes, yes, of course I was bluffing, but after 39 days of a game filled with deceit and scrambling at the last minute, there are times where you just want to lay down and quit and just be done with it. You're tired, hungry and feeling miserable all the time, which plays with your mind. So to answer your question, no, I was not ready to quit and was just being sarcastic with a part of my response ;)"

I also didn't like Sarah's response from a couple of weeks ago where she said she's not enjoying sitting in her seat. If I was part of jury I would want to see someone strategizing like Tony or enjoying the whole experience like Michelle. Michelle seems energized like she just landed on the island and is cracking jokes and showing life. For an all winners season you want to vote for someone still playing the game.

Edited May 11, 2020 by skybolt

[ladymon]

 

On 5/6/2020 at 10:25 PM, Lantern7 said:

 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by ladymon
nvm

[skybolt]

Assuming that Ben, Tony and Sarah make the final 4, which I'm guessing won't happen (Michelle and/or the returning player will likely take 1 or 2 of those spots), what would Ben do if he wins the immunity challenge? Will he give up the necklace to either Sarah or Tony and face the fire making challenge himself? If not, whom from Sarah or Tony would he pick to go up against the other individual, or would he just have them face each other?

[EllenB]

On 5/8/2020 at 12:48 PM, AncientNewbie said:

 

245% speculating, but Ben seems to be the link that ties Denise to the larger Tony/Sarah/sometimes Ben group. Cutting Ben loose maybe frees up Denise for Nick/Michelle? Although speaking of Nick and Michelle like there was any coordination is weak...

I can see Ben as the missing link. 😀

[amazingracefan]

On 5/11/2020 at 12:57 PM, skybolt said:

The problem with Denise is that her reactions come off as being very confusing to viewers and probably to some of the jury. It's hard to tell if she's joking, being sarcastic, playing the role of a defeatist, angry, motivated, etc. For instance,

I thought it was made obvious in the episode to both viewers and her alliance that she didn't want to go.  I just don't see why it would ever be convincing to Nick either however and the whole point of it was to somehow fool him he was safe, I just didn't think that was the way to do it.