S05.E12: Never My Love

[Athena]

Quote

Claire struggles to survive brutal treatment from her captors.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

[ferjy]

I’m wavering on this episode. It was well acted and had a satisfying revenge fight scene. I’m glad that although they brought the horror of the rapes across, they thankfully didn’t show too much. And I loved Claire’s dissociation scenes from the 60’s. 

But I’m disappointed in the stones outcome. Could it have been any duller? After the anticipation for a week to find out where Roger, Brianna and Jemmy ended up, it was where they started from! I joked about them spinning in the stones and ending up back in the past looking at Ian, but I didn’t really think it was what they would go with. I was hoping to see them in the future next season and have the past focus on Jamie and Claire. And they never elaborated on it beyond Bree’s quick “we ended up home”. Seemed a waste of a storyline. 

It also didn’t feel like a finale to me. I would have preferred this episode (minus the travelling revelation) to have aired as the penultimate episode, and last week’s episode as this week’s finale.

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by ferjy

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ugh, fuck this show. I am not here for FIFTEEN MINUTES STRAIGHT of Claire being beaten and raped. I know it was to set up everyone who loves Claire rallying in her name and murdering to avenge her but FFS. And Jamie has such a magical penis that she was ready to have sex with him like two whole days later? Okay then.

Marsali for MVP though. Her quiet rage just before she killed Lionel was more mercy than he deserved. It tells you a lot that he was lying there beaten, bloody, and shackled and he was still being a complete pig.

ETA: I forgot to mention the co-MVP of this episode - the guy who offered Claire a knife so she could kill them all herself is someone I want on my team.

Edited May 10, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[cardigirl]

Points to ferjy for figuring out what happened to Bree and Roger. I didn’t think the show would go there either.

I liked the 60s scenes, but having Bree and Roger killed in a traffic accident? Was that supposed to show us that the future isn’t safer? 

Also kind of mad that this episode was only 40 minutes. 
 

Now the long wait til season 6. 

[Mezzaluna]

Was the fantasy sequence in the book? It took me a while to figure out what it was, since it started the episode. It was a treat to see Murtaugh - everyone actually - in a late 1960's/ early 1970's setting. What a hoot that Ian was a soldier with that hair!

I didn't assume that Jamie and Claire had sex in the last scene.  Back when Jamie got bitten by the snake, Claire took off her top so they could be skin to skin, a sort of enhanced healing thing. That's what I figured happened here.

It'll be a long wait for the next season.

[sas616]

I didn't get the feeling they had sex in that scene either.  I took it as being for comfort and healing.  

[nara]

Happy Mother’s Day! Enjoy a gang rape! WTF? 

Other than the tone deaf timing of the episode, I rather liked it. 

Bree and Roger, I am glad that they are still part of the story. I do think that they both subconsciously consider this home and now they openly acknowledge it. Now Roger, in particular, can build a life here without one foot in the future. I thought it was very appropriate that he could only confess to killing someone when Bree could not see him...

Fantasy sequence. Everyone looked so cute in their 1960’s garb. Jocasta/Maria Doyle Kennedy in particular. I think I have literally never seen her look so happy in any tv show. Marsali was almost unrecognizable. I enjoyed the retreat to a happy place.

 I assume we will see more of Wendigo next season. I get Claire’s anger, but I am also sympathetic to him. He did help her and tried to prevent the rapes by painting her as a witch.

I hate that this series relies so much on rape. I really hope we’re done with it. But that being said it was portrayed reasonably well, and in this case it was realistic for those men to behave that way—unfortunately. I get that they didn’t want it to be a rift between Claire and Jamie, but she would still be sore so I think they should have waited for them to have sex (which is what I assume happened in that scene).

I am glad that Claire did not kill Lionel. He deserved it but that would have really haunted her. 

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Also kind of mad that this episode was only 40 minutes. 

My tv said that the episode ended after the 48 minute mark (including the end credits, the episode was 51 minutes long). It was shorter than usual (last week's episode was 60 minutes long including the previouslies) which seems unusual. I feel like normally the season finales of shows run a little longer than normal.

[cam3150]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And Jamie has such a magical penis that she was ready to have sex with him like two whole days later? Okay then.

I didn’t get they they had sex in that scene. I thought he was just comforting her and the skin to skin made her feel closer to him and more safe. She did something similar with him after the snake bite when he was near death and said that’s what brought him back. I may wrong but that’s how I saw it. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm kind of over tv shows using the 'light music' scene cut to a traumatic scene. Lost did it *once* and it's been copied for years. I actually would have liked to see actual scenes of Claire in the 60s. Although seeing everyone in their 60s clothes was fun. Really, the makeup people do a great job. Claire looked like two different people to me. 

So, like we talked about last week, all Claire had to do was close the drawer and none of this would have happened? I mean, I do like the show or I'd stop watching, but it seems like they resort to characters being dumb because plot.

I did like the guy being freaked out about Claire being a witch. 

13 hours ago, ferjy said:

I joked about them spinning in the stones and ending up back in the past looking at Ian, but I didn’t really think it was what they would go with.

I had a huge laugh. I would have liked if they just went to the past and then back to 1772 because that should have been what happened even with the same outcome. I'm still laughing because someone said Ian would be there too. 

You know, if you're blaming Claire because you're wife won't fuck you, is it really on her? Because it seems like all the other wives don't have problems fucking their husbands. Oooh, you found out Claire's secret identity and are going to tell everyone!

Well shit! 'You know Bob?' I wasn't expecting another traveler. That was cool.

13 hours ago, ferjy said:

Seemed a waste of a storyline. 

Someone else commented a while back that nothing really much happened this season. I feel like we had a lot of discussion of interesting storylines that were left on the table this season. 

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ugh, fuck this show. I am not here for FIFTEEN MINUTES STRAIGHT of Claire being beaten and raped. I know it was to set up everyone who loves Claire rallying in her name and murdering to avenge her but FFS.

With all the interesting things to explore in 1772, it's kind of derivative to resort to assault. Again. I'm beginning to wonder of the author has some issues. Plus, do they need that as motivation to rally for Claire in the first place? Or really anyone? Like if Fergus' wife was abducted, they all being to be like, 'Did she get raped? I'm not getting my bow and arrows out for nothing.' I'm not squeamish and it's fine if a tv show is violent, and they surely live in a violent time, but come on. I didn't care that Jamie et al. killed all of them, for example. They were setting fires and killing people, taking away their livelihood (the still). It's not like you can arrest them all. 

7 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Was that supposed to show us that the future isn’t safer? 

I guess? I mean, I would say 1972 is probably at least an order of magnitude safer than being 5 years out in arguably from the biggest revolution ever, even if you're at risk of a car accident. 

44 minutes ago, cam3150 said:

She did something similar with him after the snake bite when he was near death and said that’s what brought him back.

Claire definitely jerked Jamie back to life. 

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[BitterApple]

I need to rewatch because I had a tough time understanding a lot of the dialogue. 

Did the time traveler guy die? If so, bummer that we didn't get to hear more than a quick summary of his backstory. 

I agree the penultimate and the finale should've been swapped. For some reason, this episode didn't pack the emotional punch that the last one did (at least in my opinion). Claire's ordeal was awful, but I'm so tired of rape being used as a theme. It's starting to feel gratuitous at this stage. It wasn't necessary to instill rage in the Fraser clan. The kidnapping and beatings alone would've done that.

Roger needing the lights out to confess he just killed a man? Seriously, Bree, dump this wuss and have a friendship marriage with Lord John. 

The failed time travel was kind of a let down. I expected a much bigger wtf?! out of both of them rather than a quick head scratch and taking off for the Ridge. I would much rather have seen them return to the future so we could get back to the alternating timeline in Season 6. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

24 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Did the time traveler guy die? If so, bummer that we didn't get to hear more than a quick summary of his backstory. 

I think in the scene by the river (I'm watching now), Claire asked if he was dead and told Jamie, 'He was like me. From the future.' Jamie said he was killed. Not really clear why a guy from the 60s is running around killing people and setting fires though.

24 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Seriously, Bree, dump this wuss and have a friendship marriage with Lord John. 

I'm still assuming it was the baby that prevented them from going to 1972, so Roger can just go back himself, and Bree can watch over her little half brother with Lord John. 

I guess they were able to make the needles. 

I know last season ended with the firing up of the regulator plot, but I'm surprised they are still dragging out the fire. 

Jamie telling me he hunted down my brother's little gang all killed them all for abducting his wife, I'm not so sure I'm going to be issuing threats. 

Honestly, I found myself marking time during this episode. I'm going to watch S6 because I do legitimately want to know what happens with the fire. I really want them to leave the ridge behind and all head north for the war so Jamie and Ian can become one of Washington's spies. But I'm not awaiting with bated breath. I really hope at the least they actually find something for Roger to do.

Cool version of the theme at the end though. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[Hanahope]

Claire asked if there was an Indian with those that were killed and Jamie said no.  So Wendigo is still out there for next season.

I too thought brother Brown was a bit cheeky to be issuing threats after Jamie & co killed their “watch gang.”  

At least no real cliffhanger which is nice. I thought the time travel stones story was a cop out.  Shouldn’t Bree and Roger have communicated about their thoughts beforehand?  Like think of automobiles or airplanes or something.  Good thing Ian hadn’t left yet.  And they had impeccable timing returning to the Ridge.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Hanahope

[jenn31]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

You know, if you're blaming Claire because you're wife won't fuck you, is it really on her?

“Dr. Rawlings” wrote that if women didn’t want to get pregnant, to avoid sex at certain times. Lionel’s wife took that advice and refused to sleep with him during that time (hence he broke her arm that Claire mended) because she didn’t want to bring a child into the world for Lionel to beat. Lionel must have either read the leaflet or his wife owned up to reading it. So in essence it was because of Claire, that’s what he was referring to. Though with Lionel, I’d use any excuse, the slimy bastard. 

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by jenn31

[jenn31]

11 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I liked the 60s scenes, but having Bree and Roger killed in a traffic accident? Was that supposed to show us that the future isn’t safer? 

It seemed that way. Showing that there are dangers in any era. I guess they used the statistic of the modern world that more people die in car accidents than airplanes and whatever else. 

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, Hanahope said:

And they had impeccable timing returning to the Ridge.

 

 

Speaking of timing, how did Marsali go from barely showing to a third trimester pregnancy in a matter of weeks? It couldn't have taken that long for Jamie to return with Claire, considering Bri and Roger traveled to New York and back in only a month. 

[Lola82]

I’m just glad we got closure for all the cliff hangers from last episode. 
As much rape as there is in this show, at least it’s taken as serious trauma and not dismissed like some other shows. 

[WatchrTina]

Ack!  I posted in the wrong thread.  Sorry!

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by WatchrTina

[Cdh20]

 I have not felt this physically sick since 115/116. I highly doubt survivors of sexual assault can even watch this show at all! I do wish the author used it less. Cait’s portrayal was outstanding. 

I liked the stylized filming/Claire’s disassociation. All the throwbacks- Jamie wrapping her in a plaid, the orange, how she lost her loved ones ( Mom& dad & Frank) in car accidents. 

I love Claire’s fiestiness to survive this, & Jamie’s gentleness towards her. He rescued her physically & he will rescue her soul as well! 

I was one of the people who guessed Roger, Bree, & Jem did not go to the future, or anywhere. I loved that Roger was very upset to have killed someone.

Marsali is the best, we’ve all been saying it since late last season. 

I thought it ended on a happy note- the family all together on a peaceful day, & Claire safe in Jamie’s arms. 

My one complaint was editing! Some of the scenes ended abruptly. ( I do have to watch with commercials, so this ruins the flow somewhat).

I am sad the season is over already. 

15 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Points to ferjy for figuring out what happened to Bree and Roger. I didn’t think the show would go there either.

I liked the 60s scenes, but having Bree and Roger killed in a traffic accident? Was that supposed to show us that the future isn’t safer? 

Also kind of mad that this episode was only 40 minutes. 
 

Now the long wait til season 6. 

Dying in a car accident was how Claire lost her mom & dad & Frank!

[Cdh20]

I wished the fellow time traveller helped Claire out more! Is he dead?

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Cdh20 said:

I wished the fellow time traveller helped Claire out more! Is he dead?

No. Claire asked if Jamie saw a Native American with the group, and he said no. She said he didn’t hurt her, but that he didn’t help  her. And that he was like her—from the future.

[Cdh20]

4 hours ago, Lola82 said:

I’m just glad we got closure for all the cliff hangers from last episode. 
As much rape as there is in this show, at least it’s taken as serious trauma and not dismissed like some other shows. 

I expect Claire’s continued recovery to be shown next season, just like Jamie’s & Bree’s were. I think the show does a good job of showing the characters strength to overcome adversity, & trauma, to recover, but I wish the author had used rape less often. 

[Belle Fleures]

11 hours ago, cam3150 said:

I didn’t get they they had sex in that scene. I thought he was just comforting her and the skin to skin made her feel closer to him and more safe. She did something similar with him after the snake bite when he was near death and said that’s what brought him back. I may wrong but that’s how I saw it. 

From my perspective, it looked like Jamie was still within her during that scene, from the body positions and Jamie's strategically placed arm to shield the view.

[Ziggy]

18 hours ago, nara said:

I assume we will see more of Wendigo next season. I get Claire’s anger, but I am also sympathetic to him. He did help her and tried to prevent the rapes by painting her as a witch.

 

Two different men.  The person who thought she was a witch and actually tried to help her was Tebbe.  Wendigo Donner was the time traveling, Native American, who asked her if the name Ringo Starr meant anything to her.  She told Jamie that he was a time traveler and that he did not help her.

[nara]

3 hours ago, Ziggy said:

Two different men.  The person who thought she was a witch and actually tried to help her was Tebbe.  Wendigo Donner was the time traveling, Native American, who asked her if the name Ringo Starr meant anything to her.  She told Jamie that he was a time traveler and that he did not help her.

I guess I need to stop doing other things while watching the show...

[Cdh20]

3 hours ago, nara said:

I guess I need to stop doing other things while watching the show...

This is one show you have to pay attention to when you watch. Much of their feelings are shown & not spoken also.

[Cdh20]

7 hours ago, Belle Fleures said:

From my perspective, it looked like Jamie was still within her during that scene, from the body positions and Jamie's strategically placed arm to shield the view.

Both her legs were on top of him. If they did have sex, then all the power to Claire, who loves sex,  & communicates best that way, for not having that experience take that away from her.

[SassAndSnacks]

57 minutes ago, Cdh20 said:

Both her legs were on top of him. If they did have sex, then all the power to Claire, who loves sex,  & communicates best that way, for not having that experience take that away from her.

I saw this as a callback to the snake bite episode, when she places her body over Jamie's to keep him warm/heal him.  When they wake up that next morning, you very deliberately see her leg draped over his body, like it was here.  

Whatever happened between them in this scene last night, I loved.  Sex, no sex, comfort, healing, simple warmth, whatever.  I loved the imagery.  I loved the dialogue.  It was incredibly powerful.  

[Cdh20]

1 hour ago, SassAndSnacks said:

I saw this as a callback to the snake bite episode, when she places her body over Jamie's to keep him warm/heal him.  When they wake up that next morning, you very deliberately see her leg draped over his body, like it was here.  

Whatever happened between them in this scene last night, I loved.  Sex, no sex, comfort, healing, simple warmth, whatever.  I loved the imagery.  I loved the dialogue.  It was incredibly powerful.  

Agree! Jamie is her safe place!

Edited May 11, 2020 by Cdh20
added a thought

[BitterApple]

16 hours ago, Hanahope said:

 

At least no real cliffhanger which is nice. I thought the time travel stones story was a cop out.  Shouldn’t Bree and Roger have communicated about their thoughts beforehand?  Like think of automobiles or airplanes or something.  

 

 

I wish they'd elaborated more on that. I know the writers were going for Roger subconsciously viewing the Ridge as home, but I don't buy it. He was pushing to return to the future the entire season, and was packing their bags five seconds after Jemmy heard the buzzing. It seems like a pretty big heel-turn to me, but hopefully this means Roger's accepted his fate and doesn't spend S6 whining about it. 

On 5/10/2020 at 3:56 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

ETA: I forgot to mention the co-MVP of this episode - the guy who offered Claire a knife so she could kill them all herself is someone I want on my team.

I thought the same! I knew Claire would never be able to slaughter a whole group of men, but I appreciated Myers' offer to give her first crack at it. 

Overall I thought this was a good finale. I think they did a great job with the dream sequence. The vibrant colors and happy family scenes were a jarring contrast to the dark and brutal ordeal Claire was suffering in reality. I also thought it interesting the 1700s characters were modernized yet she pictured Jamie in period clothing. 

[Cdh20]

30 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I wish they'd elaborated more on that. I know the writers were going for Roger subconsciously viewing the Ridge as home, but I don't buy it. He was pushing to return to the future the entire season, and was packing their bags five seconds after Jemmy heard the buzzing. It seems like a pretty big heel-turn to me, but hopefully this means Roger's accepted his fate and doesn't spend S6 whining about it. 

 

 

Maybe Bree & Jem thinking of 1700's as home overpowered Roger's thought? I think Roger's arc this year was to come to terms with staying, so that is what this accomplished!

[BitterApple]

12 minutes ago, Cdh20 said:

Maybe Bree & Jem thinking of 1700's as home overpowered Roger's thought? I think Roger's arc this year was to come to terms with staying, so that is what this accomplished!

I think that would've been a likelier explanation, especially considering Jemmy's travel powers were so strong he cracked the opal just by holding it. Like you said, either way, it accomplishes the mission of Roger deciding he's meant to stay in the 1700s, so hopefully that debate is put to rest. 

[Blakeston]

Thank god for Marsali, the one character on this show with a brain.

I thought the season reached peak stupidity with Bree insisting that Bonnet should be tried for his crimes - even though she knows damn well that he's escaped the gallows multiple times. And then she decides to kill him herself anyway!

But then came this episode, where the men of Fraser's Ridge decide that every single person involved with Claire's abduction and rape needs to be executed. But when Lionel, the most culpable man of all, is still alive, they suddenly remember they have questions for him, which can only be asked back at home!

Did they ever ask them? Who knows?

I get that it was all a set-up for Marsali to take him out with the syringe. But surely there was a better way to get there. Just off the top of my head, he could have escaped, and then shown up at the surgery later to attack Claire and Marsali. Someone could knock him out, and then Claire could choose to spare him - only for Marsali to kill him with the syringe when she gets a chance.

[domina89]

I actually really liked the episode.  While I don't enjoy seeing any of my favorites traumatized, I thought it was well done and Caitriona's performance was Emmy worthy.

I love how much Ian has grown as a person.  He didn't bat an eye or even hesitate at all when Jaime told him to kill Claire's attackers.  He is very far removed from the young scared boy we saw in season three.  He hasn't lost his humanity, though, which makes me like him even more.

I adore Marsali and every scene she is in.  She and Ian have really been a welcome addition to this season.

Loved the disassociation scenes.  It was a very interesting way to incorporate so much of the history of the show (the orange, the dragonfly, the vase, etc.) while also giving us a glimpse of what could have been in another existence.  And I welcome any scene that shows me a happy Murtagh!

I liked the themes of "home" or "what is home?" sprinkled throughout the episode.  That's been a core idea this entire season, actually.  

I did have a few nitpicks:

- How did Jamie and the others know the Browns definitely had Claire before they started killing everyone?  We only see it from Claire's perspective, but it seems they find her rather late in the massacre.  That would have been a big WHOOPS if they hadn't had her after all.

-Just how long does that fiery cross burn?  Roger and Bree would have been traveling at least a couple weeks in order to arrive right on time.  The editing made it seem like the stones were just on the next hill over.  Obviously they were already on their way back when Claire was taken, but the timing of all of it just seemed odd.

2 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

Both her legs were on top of him. If they did have sex, then all the power to Claire, who loves sex,  & communicates best that way, for not having that experience take that away from her.

I don't think they had sex.  I think the skin contact was a comfort to Claire and also a way they could show the damage done all over to her body.  You can clearly see the extent of the beating she took with all the bruising.

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 minutes ago, domina89 said:

How did Jamie and the others know the Browns definitely had Claire before they started killing everyone?  We only see it from Claire's perspective, but it seems they find her rather late in the massacre. 

I would assume that Marsali to them who it was. Maybe she recognized someone before they knocked her out? 

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I wish they'd elaborated more on that. I know the writers were going for Roger subconsciously viewing the Ridge as home, but I don't buy it. He was pushing to return to the future the entire season, and was packing their bags five seconds after Jemmy heard the buzzing. It seems like a pretty big heel-turn to me, but hopefully this means Roger's accepted his fate and doesn't spend S6 whining about it. 

He was fairly keen on getting back home after being hung to a tree to die too, and prior to that expended zero effort on making himself useful beyond griping about Jamie tooling on him. This whole plot was a joke. As much as I am interested in time travel, I understand that's not what the show is about, but it's clear there never was any thought put into it. Not that I expect some high level physics narrative, but even a brief discussion about maybe because the baby was born there. But again, there's way too much plot of characters being dumb to move the plot. Why bother to go to the stones in the first place? Why not just decide this is where they think they belong now?

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Like you said, either way, it accomplishes the mission of Roger deciding he's meant to stay in the 1700s, so hopefully that debate is put to rest. 

But it's an ass way when the characters could have actually had that discussion and we could learn what's going on in Roger's head. To not be sour, because I do like the show, I will give them credit to have Bree say that the baby is definitely his. Which also could have put him over the top to want to stay. 

26 minutes ago, domina89 said:

While I don't enjoy seeing any of my favorites traumatized, I thought it was well done and Caitriona's performance was Emmy worthy.

I like all the actors, but it's kind of a sad commentary that to be award worthy, the characters have to be egregiously abused to be considered. Equal time, the actor playing Roger did great with the ptsd, but still. 

[domina89]

12 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I would assume that Marsali to them who it was. Maybe she recognized someone before they knocked her out? 

That makes sense.  I guess what puzzled me was when Jamie says to Bree and Roger they "think" the Browns took her.  I wish it had been worded slightly different to make that clearer to the viewer.

[Ziggy]

On 5/10/2020 at 1:21 AM, ferjy said:

But I’m disappointed in the stones outcome. Could it have been any duller?

Lol!  Exactly!

I'm not disappointed that Roger & Bree are still in the 18th century with everyone on the Ridge, but after wondering all week (since I have no life), it was kind of a let down.

[Lola82]

My take on the last scene was that they did have sex. Claire made a whole speech how this will not be the thing that breaks her. Sex has always been one the best ways Claire and Jaime connected so she wanted to reclaim it for herself as a nonviolent act. That's why Jaime called her brave during that scene and she said she felt safe.

One unintentional moment of comedy for me was the Indian asking if she knows who Ringo Starr is. Why not pick a more popular Beatle?

I can't seem to remember what the orange symbolized. Was it in a past scene?

[Cdh20]

9 minutes ago, Lola82 said:

My take on the last scene was that they did have sex. Claire made a whole speech how this will not be the thing that breaks her. Sex has always been one the best ways Claire and Jaime connected so she wanted to reclaim it for herself as a nonviolent act. That's why Jaime called her brave during that scene and she said she felt safe.

One unintentional moment of comedy for me was the Indian asking if she knows who Ringo Starr is. Why not pick a more popular Beatle?

I can't seem to remember what the orange symbolized. Was it in a past scene?

The orange is from 207 when Claire went to see the King of France to secure Jamie’s release from the Bastille. He gave it to her, she sat it on a side table. After she “paid “ him  & he dismisses her she grabbed it & took it! 

It does seem that award winning acting comes up a lot in the saddest, & most horrific scenes. (115, 116, 207, 507, 512)

[Lorna Mae]

24 minutes ago, Lola82 said:

One unintentional moment of comedy for me was the Indian asking if she knows who Ringo Starr is. Why not pick a more popular Beatle?

To avoid the possibility of Claire's knowing someone named Harrison, McCartney or Lennon in this time. (Or O'Lennain; John's family was Irish a few generations back.) There can't be anyone named Ringo or Starr in colonial America. 

[ruby24]

Yeah, there can't be any mistake with "Ringo." Of course I guess he could have said President John F. Kennedy or something too.

[DoctorAtomic]

33 minutes ago, Lola82 said:

One unintentional moment of comedy for me was the Indian asking if she knows who Ringo Starr is. Why not pick a more popular Beatle?

I thought Claire said 'Ringo' when she was sitting at the dinner table in her disassociative state and said it out loud, so the guy heard her like, 'wtf she saying Ringo?'

[Ziggy]

1 hour ago, Lorna Mae said:

To avoid the possibility of Claire's knowing someone named Harrison, McCartney or Lennon in this time. (Or O'Lennain; John's family was Irish a few generations back.) There can't be anyone named Ringo or Starr in colonial America. 

That's what I thought, too.  One thing that bugged me a little, though was that the big tip off to him was "Jesus H Roosevelt Christ."  So, obviously she had been alive in the 1940's, but what if she had traveled back before the Beatles were well known?  Wouldn't it have been safer for him to say Frank Sinatra or something?

But I absolutely agree that Ringo was the safest Beatle to choose.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Ziggy

[Hanahope]

Yeah I guess perhaps women’s attitude towards birth control had changed a lot since 1945.  Had Claire stayed through Culloden, maybe she wouldn’t have been recommending such actions, and she wouldn’t know who Ringo Starr was.   But Wendigo assumed she was more modern because of those recommendations (and her attitude which hadn’t changed since 1745) and I guess lucky for him (maybe), she had returned to 1948 and stayed until 1968 so she knew Ringo.

 

He should have asked if she knew who FDR was given her exclamation.

 

[toolazy]

15 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

Yeah I guess perhaps women’s attitude towards birth control had changed a lot since 1945.  Had Claire stayed through Culloden, maybe she wouldn’t have been recommending such actions, and she wouldn’t know who Ringo Starr was.   But Wendigo assumed she was more modern because of those recommendations (and her attitude which hadn’t changed since 1745) and I guess lucky for him (maybe), she had returned to 1948 and stayed until 1968 so she knew Ringo.

 

He should have asked if she knew who FDR was given her exclamation.

 

I'm pretty sure women in the 40's were every bit as interested in birth control as women in the 60's.  They just didn't have the same kinds of choices. 

[ferjy]

On 5/10/2020 at 6:56 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Marsali for MVP though. Her quiet rage just before she killed Lionel was more mercy than he deserved. It tells you a lot that he was lying there beaten, bloody, and shackled and he was still being a complete pig.

The actor playing Lionel, Ned Dennehy, is superb. He’s a character actor in a lot of British shows, and is always good in his roles, just as he was here. He did slimy creep perfectly. He was great as Ebeneezer Scrooge in Dickensian. Fun series. I was disappointed when it wasn’t renewed.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

Make the safe choice. Choose Ringo. 

[Quickbeam]

7 hours ago, domina89 said:

-Just how long does that fiery cross burn?  

I know! That was my first thought! 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 5/10/2020 at 7:05 PM, jenn31 said:

“Dr. Rawlings” wrote that if women didn’t want to get pregnant, to avoid sex at certain times. Lionel’s wife took that advice and refused to sleep with him during that time (hence he broke her arm that Claire mended) because she didn’t want to bring a child into the world for Lionel to beat. Lionel must have either read the leaflet or his wife owned up to reading it. So in essence it was because of Claire, that’s what he was referring to. Though with Lionel, I’d use any excuse, the slimy bastard. 

 

I'm pretty sure Doctor Atomic knew that, and was just referring to how Lionel's wife taking Claire's advice was his own fault.