S05.E06: Wexler v. Goodman

[scenario]

I just had this vision of the last scene in the last episode of BCS is a line for line remake of the scene where they introduced Saul in BB. They leave, he answers the phone, "Hi Kim, I'll be home in a couple of hours...." 😀

[tennisgurl]

I swear, I feel like I need the Sassy Gay Friend from those YouTube videos to show up and tell Kim to get her shit together and tell Jimmy to take a hike. “What What WHAT are you doing?!?” 

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Kim’s exasperating “proposal “ might be her realizing she can’t be a corporate law firm lawyer and be with Jimmy. She could marry him and be another type of lawyer. She knows he’ll love her and support her whatever she does.
Wexler & Goodman, Criminal Law & Cri-mi-nal Law

After thinking about this for awhile, I've come up with what I think could possibly be the motivation, because that didn't seem like she could have any kind of a rational though in that high state of emotion.

Kim has been trying to distance herself from Mesa Verde, and her job, for quite some time and has been frustrated at every point. What if this reaction was more along the lines of an animal gnawing its leg to get out of a trap? If she marries Jimmy after this, there's no way Wachtel will want Kim as his lawyer, and Schwiekert would have a serious reaction to it as well.

Burning down the house? (so to speak)

[Eulipian 5k]

28 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Kim has been trying to distance herself from Mesa Verde, and her job, for quite some time and has been frustrated at every point. What if this reaction was more along the lines of an animal gnawing its leg to get out of a trap? If she marries Jimmy after this, there's no way Wachtel will want Kim as his lawyer, and Schwiekert would have a serious reaction to it as well.

Burning down the house? (so to speak)

Yes. If she stayed with Wachtel / Schwiekert, she knows she'll end up tempted to lie to or betray the big shot lawyers on behalf of the Archers and other little guys; and she doesn't want to lie to her clients. The cold open shows she had a completely different upbringing than the Howard types and she'll never see things the way Paige does vis-a-vis the Archers of the world.

Burning down the house? Ouch! Too soon! (sheds a tear for poor crispy Chuck)

 

[Sam Spayaid]

Now this may be way off but didn't Howard want to hire Jimmy? Didn't he repeatedly go to bat for him and this is how he thanks him?!!! 

That whole scene was like something you'd see on some horrible network sitcom - something along the lines of "Mom" or "Bless This Mess" stupid, juvenile shit that did not belong here. 

I was so shocked by Kim's suggestion that I didn't even think about the whole spouse can't testify against their spouse thing. Not exactly romantic but in this world, it somehow makes perfect sense.

I'm finding this season slow. Scenes with Nacho, Mike and Fring I look forward to. The stuff with Jimmy/Saul and Kim seem to move at a snail's pace.

[Eulipian 5k]

The Bitsui vs Mesa Verde logo case is reminiscent of the Shepard Fairey, artist / Obama 'Hope' poster. Fairey used a photo of 44 to create his iconic HOPE poster which became a campaign poster.  From Wikipedia:

"In January 2009, after Obama had won the election, Fairey's mixed-media stenciled portrait version of the image was acquired by the Smithsonian Institution for its National Portrait Gallery. Later in January 2009, the photograph on which Fairey based the poster was revealed: a June 2006 shot by former Associated Press freelance photographer Mannie Garcia. In response to claims by the Associated Press for compensation, Fairey sued for a declaratory judgment that his poster was a fair use of the original photograph. The parties settled out of court in January 2011, with details of the settlement remaining confidential."

[PeterPirate]

Here is a review of the episode from the controversial guy from last week.  He's toned done the distasteful language, thankfully, but his take on Kim is pretty much the same as before.  One interesting new observation is the connection he makes between Kim's Mom's addiction to alcohol and Jimmy's addiction to running scams.  
 

 

Also, as to Jimmy's stunt with the hookers, I would point out that Howard won't stop contacting Jimmy.  Talk to the hand, Howie! 

[ByTor]

2 hours ago, Sam Spayaid said:

That whole scene was like something you'd see on some horrible network sitcom - something along the lines of "Mom" or "Bless This Mess" stupid, juvenile shit that did not belong here. 

Saul continuously harassing Howard is ridiculous.  Maybe I need to rewatch the scene, but I didn't see a lack of joy at all, I thought he looked rather pleased with himself.  What's he trying to do,  cause a chain of events that will result in Howard's suicide so he could now have two on his head?   What also didn't belong was that stupid commercial, which wasn't even funny in a "tee hee I'm 12" kind of way.  I mean, "He was wearing no pants"???  All this for a miserable, cantankerous old man who was in the wrong.  

Regarding the casting, I agree with all the sentiment about how great it was for both Kim and her mother.  I also thought they did a great job casting "little Kevin," I could totally see Kevin having looked like that as a kid.

The only scenes I really enjoyed were the Mike ones (and I'm one who gets quickly annoyed with "always has all the answers" Mike).  Jonathan Banks was soooo good in that scene with Nacho.  He acted mildly annoyed when Nacho was talking to him, but you could see a very subtle shift in facial expression to sympathetic the second Nacho mentioned his father.  It may or may not have made me tear up a bit, so bravo JB!

 

[tennisgurl]

Kim Kim Kim, this just has to stop. You are throwing your entire career away all to be with a clearly deeply messed up and unethical person (who just scammed and humiliated you!) and because of your apparent need for a rush! Or maybe its to "save" Jimmy the way that she couldn't save her mom? Is it because she feels uncomfortable with her success and is self sabotaging herself because she feels she isn't meant to be this successful? That she feels so much more connected with the underdogs that she resents the rich people she now works with? She has always loved the thrill of being a little bad, but staying with this obviously crappy person and trying to scam your own company? This is basically just douses yourself with lighter fluid and deciding to light a cigarette. Its so sad, I think that Kim is fundamentally a good person who worked really hard to get to where she is, but there is something hurt in her that she never really dealt with, and its catching up to her. Way too many amazingly intelligent and decent people in the world have met their undoings because of their loyalty to people that never deserved it and their own demons. Kim needs to keep up that riotous fury, she was right! This is clearly all about Jimmy, it will always be about Jimmy.

As hilarious as Saul's video was, its also just so intensely unethical and crappy as a legal professional, it really is just showing that, as much as I can often admire Jimmy's hustle, he is pretty much down the Saul rabbit hole at this point. Its not about winning for his client, its about beating Mesa Verde. For both Jimmy and Kim, this isn't about the old guy (who is really just an old stubborn asshole who has a pretty shoddy case anyway) anymore, its about getting back at Mesa Verde for...you know, wearing suites and stuff. Yeah, this is all about their own personal stuff and getting this win. For Jimmy, maybe its also about increasing his brand as a Criminal Lawyer (you know, a criminal lawyer) who will use many ridiculous means to win, or at least put off the inevitable, but is going through some real personal stuff here, that I hope to get more into on. I mean, Kim was going to give this guy, who has done nothing but spit venom at her, her own money! This is clearly personal, and based on her own issues, maybe of fighting for lost causes, maybe for the rush, maybe for her need to fight the big guys for the little guys (even if the big guys honestly seem a lot more likable) out of her own past, this is clearly part of a bigger issue. 

Jimmy's increasingly mean spirited and immature pranks on Howard are also probably not really based on Howard himself, not even Jimmy seems to be enjoying it, even as he keeps them up. Really, the whole thing between them is probably all based around Chuck. Howard feels guilty about everything, so he is trying to help Jimmy, while Jimmy is still furious at Chuck, but he cant do anything about it, so he is taking it out on Howard, who is the easiest target, even if he doesn't really deserve it. Or maybe its just an addict who cant stop even if he wanted to. Jimmy/Saul just needs to fuck with people, so he does. 

So, was the stuff with the photographer even true? Jimmy made a comment about finding a twenty something Native American photographer nearby, so was that story about Kevin's dad using a photographers imagine even real, or just more of the hustle, like the obviously full of crap video? 

The casting for young Kim and Kevin were seriously spot on.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

Here is a review of the episode from the controversial guy from last week.  He's toned done the distasteful language, thankfully, but his take on Kim is pretty much the same as before.  One interesting new observation is the connection he makes between Kim's Mom's addiction to alcohol and Jimmy's addiction to running scams.  
 

Also, as to Jimmy's stunt with the hookers, I would point out that Howard won't stop contacting Jimmy.  Talk to the hand, Howie! 

Thanks for gleaning the worthwhile nuggets so we don’t have to watch it. 

[Ed-]

5 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Saul continuously harassing Howard is ridiculous.  Maybe I need to rewatch the scene, but I didn't see a lack of joy at all, I thought he looked rather pleased with himself.  What's he trying to do,  cause a chain of events that will result is Howard's suicide so he could now have two on his head?   What also didn't belong was that stupid commercial, which wasn't even funny in a "tee hee I'm 12" kind of way.  I mean, "He was wearing no pants"???  All this for a miserable, cantankerous old man who was in the wrong. 

Maybe it is not aimed at Howard specifically, but rather at HHM as a company? What Would Saul Do? Some options:

• Get rid of the McGill name - eventually
• Replace Howard as CEO, then wreck havoc for a month, use the company for a con, etc
• Bring HHM to its knees, then outright buy-out of HHM for breadcrumbs, then use it for a  con or something, or maybe change HHM to Saul Goodman & Associates

Considering meta information though, and seeing as there are so few episodes left, and we have yet to see the Breaking Bad and Gene timelines, I think everything that happens will be swift.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

The video above is not as compelling as the one last week.  The very great flaw in it, imo, is that while Kim's anger at Saul was rightfully seen by all as real, she now has no choice.  She has to dump Saul, or she has to dump Rich and Kevin.  The fact she is now so boxed in is proof enough for me that despite the narrator's seemingly open/legit question as to who is playing whom, Kim is the one out of options.  Generally, I'd take Saul over her 1,000 times out of 10. 

I also take issue with his assertion that Saul really enjoyed his latest pranking of Howard.  While in the moment, he was certainly energized, at the point it was done, there was real emptiness.  The drug just doesn't work as it once did.  This is the fate of addiction.   

 

[smartymarty]

Issues: How did Mike get into the police station mail room? He's not a New Mexico cop?

Mesa Verde could easily prevent Jimmy's commercial from airing. It's called a TRO (temporary restraining order). All they needed to do was take the CD to court to prevent it being aired. I was surprised the writers had the lawyers all in a tizzy about that when they clearly understand TROs since they had Jimmy mention one in connection with the cowboy/horse logo.

Googled "spousal privilege" in New Mexico, since in some states, only one spouse can claim it (i.e., witness spouse can decline to testify based on it, but defendant spouse can't prevent witness spouse from testifying if s/he wants to). New Mexico allowed either spouse to claim it. But interestingly, in a 2019 court decision, NM got rid of spousal privilege entirely as an outdated notion.

Edited March 25, 2020 by smartymarty
looked up spousal privilege

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Mesa Verde could easily prevent Jimmy's commercial from airing. It's called a TRO (temporary restraining order). All they needed to do was take the CD to court to prevent it being aired. I was surprised the writers had the lawyers all in a tizzy about that when they clearly understand TROs since they had Jimmy mention one in connection with the cowboy/horse logo.

Maybe the writers figured that today's viewers would be thinking of the commercial escaping and going viral on social media, even though that was a very rare occurrence before smart phones?

[Clanstarling]

4 hours ago, ByTor said:

Saul continuously harassing Howard is ridiculous.  Maybe I need to rewatch the scene, but I didn't see a lack of joy at all, I thought he looked rather pleased with himself. 

He did, but there was this moment when it all fell away and he no longer looked like he was enjoying it.

[ByTor]

27 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

He did, but there was this moment when it all fell away and he no longer looked like he was enjoying it.

Like I said, to see if my interpretation of BO's expression changes I'd have to rewatch...which is pretty unlikely since I really didn't like this episode at all.  Actually, this episode made me realize I'm only still watching so I could finish what I started, I haven't enjoyed BCS as much since Chuck's exit.

[Irlandesa]

59 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

He did, but there was this moment when it all fell away and he no longer looked like he was enjoying it.

I agree. Or at least it looked like he came down from the high.  It's not that he was sad about it or regretted it but the satisfaction of it all was over pretty quickly.  He needed another scheme to focus on right away which is why we see him make the phone call to the photographer even though he had told Kim he'd stop.

[scenario]

2 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Issues: How did Mike get into the police station mail room? He's not a New Mexico cop?

Mesa Verde could easily prevent Jimmy's commercial from airing. It's called a TRO (temporary restraining order). All they needed to do was take the CD to court to prevent it being aired. I was surprised the writers had the lawyers all in a tizzy about that when they clearly understand TROs since they had Jimmy mention one in connection with the cowboy/horse logo.

Googled "spousal privilege" in New Mexico, since in some states, only one spouse can claim it (i.e., witness spouse can decline to testify based on it, but defendant spouse can't prevent witness spouse from testifying if s/he wants to). New Mexico allowed either spouse to claim it. But interestingly, in a 2019 court decision, NM got rid of spousal privilege entirely as an outdated notion.

The lawyers can stop TV stations from airing it but can they stop the rumors.

The bank is forcing an old guy out of his home. Accurate but not the whole story.

The bank used a poor old ladies property and used it without permission. True.

There is a film out there of people accusing the bank of all sorts of illegal stuff. True the video exists but its all lies.

There are an awful lot of people who love conspiracies and hate banks. The first two stories have a glimmer of truth to them. All sorts of people will believe the third. Especially if the bank goes to court to suppress the video. Why spend the money to suppress it if its not true? 

Mike got into the building by walking in like he owned the place. It wouldn't work in a small department where everyone knows each other but in the big city lots of out of town cops come in and out to see people. One more guy who looks, acts and talks like a cop wouldn't be suspicious. 

I'm not sure if spousal privilege should be an outdated idea. Get someone's spouse on the stand and go on a fishing expedition. "Did your spouse ever talk about robbing something?" "Does your spouse have any unusual sexual habits?" Read through someones social media and you can find something to make someone look bad. People can't be forced to incriminate themselves but now you could make their spouse do it for you. 

[sistermagpie]

Another thing about those awful commercials is if they ran they'd be terrible for MV's brand even if no one believed them. They look cheap and people would start to associate them with MV.

[PeterPirate]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Thanks for gleaning the worthwhile nuggets so we don’t have to watch it. 

You are welcome.  Now that others have posted about how Jimmy is "addicted" to scamming people, I will have to go back and watch the episode and look for that.  

23 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Another thing about those awful commercials is if they ran they'd be terrible for MV's brand even if no one believed them. They look cheap and people would start to associate them with MV.

I don't think Jimmy had any intention of actually running those ads.  I think they were so outrageous they would have led to his own disbarment.  In fact, now that I think about it, I suppose Kevin and Rich could have called his bluff and dared him to run it, since it could have damaged Kim's professional reputation as well as his own.  "Did you hear about Kim Wexler?  Her boyfriend is the one who ran the ad that said Mesa Verde funded terrorists.  If you hire her, your adversaries will hire Saul to go after you."

  

[sistermagpie]

18 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I don't think Jimmy had any intention of actually running those ads.  I think they were so outrageous they would have led to his own disbarment.  In fact, now that I think about it, I suppose Kevin and Rich could have called his bluff and dared him to run it, since it could have damaged Kim's professional reputation as well as his own.  "Did you hear about Kim Wexler?  Her boyfriend is the one who ran the ad that said Mesa Verde funded terrorists.  If you hire her, your adversaries will hire Saul to go after you."

Oh, I don't think he did either. I meant that the point of showing them would in itself be uncomfortable for the people in the room because they'd basically be seeing these commercials as being Mesa Verde ads that were not just attacks, but also just cheap and embarrassing and attached to their name. So for what Saul/Jimmy was doing, the worse they looked the better. A serious dad questioning their integrity with some dignity wouldn't have even gotten the same visceral repulsion.

[Dev F]

5 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Issues: How did Mike get into the police station mail room? He's not a New Mexico cop?

Just a few years after 9/11, no less. You'd think they'd still be pretty vigilant about strangers sneaking into a police station.

4 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Mesa Verde could easily prevent Jimmy's commercial from airing. It's called a TRO (temporary restraining order). All they needed to do was take the CD to court to prevent it being aired. I was surprised the writers had the lawyers all in a tizzy about that when they clearly understand TROs since they had Jimmy mention one in connection with the cowboy/horse logo.

As Saul also mentions, a TRO enjoining him from airing the ad would amount to "prior restraint," which is generally disallowed under the First Amendment. Once the commercial aired, Mesa Verde would likely win any lawsuit it filed against Saul, Acker, and any TV stations that broadcast the ad, but until then I don't think they could do much but rattle the saber: If you air this, we will sue your butt off.

Though saber-rattling would probably be pretty effective -- not at stopping Saul or Acker, who have little to lose, but at preventing them from finding a platform for their ads. Any TV station they approached would have to know the ad was hugely libelous, and despite Saul's insistence, I doubt any local news outlet would be interested in running a dog-bites man story like "Local TV stations refuse to run sleazy, libelous ad."

So, yeah, the whole thing was basically a smoke screen -- a way of knocking Kevin off guard so he'd act rashly when faced with the real threat, the copyright infringement charge.

[Ohwell]

Oops, wrong show! 😲

Edited March 26, 2020 by Ohwell

[PeterPirate]

15 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The video above is not as compelling as the one last week.  The very great flaw in it, imo, is that while Kim's anger at Saul was rightfully seen by all as real, she now has no choice.  She has to dump Saul, or she has to dump Rich and Kevin.  The fact she is now so boxed in is proof enough for me that despite the narrator's seemingly open/legit question as to who is playing whom, Kim is the one out of options.  Generally, I'd take Saul over her 1,000 times out of 10. 

I wonder how things will play for Kim viz Rich and Kevin.  Sure, she was outsmarted, but in the end she looked like a loyal corporate attorney.  

I don't know how often lawyers in relationships end up on opposite sides of cases, but I remember a TV show called Adam's Rib where the two leads were lawyers who were married.  I only remember one scene from it, where the husband won a case using a gun made out of licorice.  

Edited March 26, 2020 by PeterPirate

[Clanstarling]

42 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I wonder how things will play for Kim viz Rich and Kevin.  Sure, she was outsmarted, but in the end she looked like a loyal corporate attorney. 

She did, which Saul intended, and was proud of. However, if after this she marries him, I think she won't look quite so good to them.

Married lawyers can often be on opposite sides, and it's no problem, but when one is a scummy lawyer using essentially blackmail tactics, I can't see how they'd do anything other than lose trust and respect for Kim. Not to mention, questioning her judgment.

[Pike Ludwell]

I think what is needed in the season's remaining episodes is a smart, suspicious opponent on the verge of discovering what they are doing, to create some good dramatic tension. Like Hank did in BB. Or was done throughout Dexter and many shows. Most likely it would be either Paige or Schweikart.  As others have said Saul's bluff could have been called. Schweikart and Paige's caving seemed inconsistent with the intelligence and toughness they have shown, but more is to come, I'm sure. I'm just tired of seeing them out"smarting" everyone.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Pike Ludwell

[Ohwell]

Yes!  I would love for Paige and/or Schweikart to put the screws to Saul and make him sweat like he's in a sauna.  Pull a masterful prank on him and give him a taste of his own medicine.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Ohwell

[PeterPirate]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

She did, which Saul intended, and was proud of. However, if after this she marries him, I think she won't look quite so good to them.

Married lawyers can often be on opposite sides, and it's no problem, but when one is a scummy lawyer using essentially blackmail tactics, I can't see how they'd do anything other than lose trust and respect for Kim. Not to mention, questioning her judgment.

Yeah, I can't see Kevin or Rich putting Saul on retainer.  

 

40 minutes ago, Pike Ludwell said:

I think what is needed in the season's remaining episodes is a smart, suspicious opponent on the verge of discovering what they are doing, to create some good dramatic tension. Like Hank did in BB. Or was done throughout Dexter and many shows. Most likely it would be either Paige or Schweikart.  As others have said Saul's bluff could have been called. Schweikart and Paige's caving seemed inconsistent with the intelligence and toughness they have shown, but more is to come, I'm sure. I'm just tired of seeing them out"smarting" everyone.

I still believe Howard is going to be the one to finally "outsmart" Jimmy.  As a famous philosopher once said, "Namaste, my ass".   

[ByTor]

10 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I still believe Howard is going to be the one to finally "outsmart" Jimmy. 

Ohhhh I hope you're right!

[Adiba]

23 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Here is a review of the episode from the controversial guy from last week.  He's toned done the distasteful language, thankfully, but his take on Kim is pretty much the same as before.  One interesting new observation is the connection he makes between Kim's Mom's addiction to alcohol and Jimmy's addiction to running scams.  
 

 

Also, as to Jimmy's stunt with the hookers, I would point out that Howard won't stop contacting Jimmy.  Talk to the hand, Howie! 

The reviewer’s tone of voice kind of irritates me, I don’t know why— so it’s hard to listen to the whole thing.

I do take issue with his assertion that Kim is more toxic to Jimmy than he to her. Who is more toxic? Is it a competition? Is the addict or the drug more toxic? 

In my opinion, both people are making their own choices and are responsible for the outcomes. Yes, perhaps they are a bad combination, but Slippin’ Jimmy existed well before Kim. And stubborn, damaged Kim existed before Jimmy.

[scenario]

7 minutes ago, Adiba said:

The reviewer’s tone of voice kind of irritates me, I don’t know why— so it’s hard to listen to the whole thing.

I do take issue with his assertion that Kim is more toxic to Jimmy than he to her. Who is more toxic? Is it a competition? Is the addict or the drug more toxic? 

In my opinion, both people are making their own choices and are responsible for the outcomes. Yes, perhaps they are a bad combination, but Slippin’ Jimmy existed well before Kim. And stubborn, damaged Kim existed before Jimmy.

Blame the woman is in full force there. 

Kim is in favor of Slippin' Jimmy rather than full fledged Saul. There is a meanness to Saul that isn't there with Slippin' Jimmy. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

still believe Howard is going to be the one to finally "outsmart" Jimmy

That makes sense now that you mention it. Howard has been set up this season as being unjustly made the butt of Jimmy/Saul's revenge punks. This makes Howard sympathetic to us, so we would cheer him on if he outsmarted Jimmy/Saul.

Edited March 26, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Pike Ludwell]

Howard would be good. We know he has some spine and determination. Just haven't seen it lately. I'm sort of hoping to see more of that petite Chinese assistant of Kim, and that she will be involved.  I know she's been pretty sharp in previous seasons. She had only one line this episode - an awkward reply to Saul's "How's it hangin?", which was pretty funny, actually. She seems too interesting a character to waste and maybe they have been low-keying her for a surprise emergence in coming episodes.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Pike Ludwell

[Ohwell]

Howard has been eerily calm, knowing that Saul is the prankster.  I do believe something's gonna happen.

[TVFan17]

3 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Howard has been eerily calm, knowing that Saul is the prankster.  I do believe something's gonna happen.

I think so.  I keep thinking that either Howard will snap and do something extreme and unexpected that has bad consequences, or Saul will set another prank in motion that backfires and has some unfavorable consequences.  An innocent bystander could be caught in the middle of it.  Somehow it just seems like it's not going to end well for someone.

[Blackie]

On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2020 at 11:10 PM, dwmarch said:

I don't remember Lalo killing an innocent bystander but that is probably because this show waits 87 years between seasons.

I have no clue what is going on in the Gus-Nacho-Lalo-Mike story.  Mr Blackie and I have tried to remember it, run through it but we can't .  It has dragged on too long and too slow unfortunately

[qtpye]

On 3/25/2020 at 9:00 AM, Clanstarling said:

After thinking about this for awhile, I've come up with what I think could possibly be the motivation, because that didn't seem like she could have any kind of a rational though in that high state of emotion.

Kim has been trying to distance herself from Mesa Verde, and her job, for quite some time and has been frustrated at every point. What if this reaction was more along the lines of an animal gnawing its leg to get out of a trap? If she marries Jimmy after this, there's no way Wachtel will want Kim as his lawyer, and Schwiekert would have a serious reaction to it as well.

Burning down the house? (so to speak)

 

On 3/25/2020 at 10:29 AM, Sam Spayaid said:

Now this may be way off but didn't Howard want to hire Jimmy? Didn't he repeatedly go to bat for him and this is how he thanks him?!!! 

That whole scene was like something you'd see on some horrible network sitcom - something along the lines of "Mom" or "Bless This Mess" stupid, juvenile shit that did not belong here. 

I was so shocked by Kim's suggestion that I didn't even think about the whole spouse can't testify against their spouse thing. Not exactly romantic but in this world, it somehow makes perfect sense.

I'm finding this season slow. Scenes with Nacho, Mike and Fring I look forward to. The stuff with Jimmy/Saul and Kim seem to move at a snail's pace.

Honest question to the board.

Why the hell would Mesa not fire Rich’s law firm after the horror that happened with Saul?

I know Kevin thinks that Kim is the best lawyer that ever lawyered in lawyer town, but he would have to be an idiot to continue with her after Saul’s stunt.

If Mesa is Kim’s only big money client...why would Rich want to keep her on?

[ByTor]

6 minutes ago, qtpye said:

 

Honest question to the board.

Why the hell would Mesa not fire Rich’s law firm after the horror that happened with Saul?

I know Kevin thinks that Kim is the best lawyer that ever lawyered in lawyer town, but he would have to be an idiot to continue with her after Saul’s stunt.

If Mesa is Kim’s only big money client...why would Rich want to keep her on?

Plus, knowing Saul & Kim are together, I STILL think Rich would be suspicious that she was in on the shenanigans.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

There is no way in Hades that Kevin would continue to retain Rich's firm.  Whether Giselle was conflicted out or not, he was forced to endure a special kind of hell because of Saul.  But for her, his crews would already be merrily erecting his beloved call center.  That poor deputy would never have been forced to make a phone call. 

Any rationality as to Giselle's competence or Rich's deep connections went out the window with the cucumber water.

Don't think that other Big Law firms have merely stood by and not tried to get their claws into Mesa Verde.  With the maturation and increasing scale of the company, a significant lobbying component has become essential.   This area became a yooge differentiator and revenue stream for the really big boy firms right at this time. 

[Ailianna]

3 hours ago, Blackie said:

I have no clue what is going on in the Gus-Nacho-Lalo-Mike story.  Mr Blackie and I have tried to remember it, run through it but we can't .  It has dragged on too long and too slow unfortunately

Quick summaries

[Arkay]

Rhea in college. So they did a great job with the child actress of matching the Rhea of today. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Arkay

[Clanstarling]

17 hours ago, qtpye said:

 

Honest question to the board.

Why the hell would Mesa not fire Rich’s law firm after the horror that happened with Saul?

I know Kevin thinks that Kim is the best lawyer that ever lawyered in lawyer town, but he would have to be an idiot to continue with her after Saul’s stunt.

If Mesa is Kim’s only big money client...why would Rich want to keep her on?

Maybe next episode they'll do all those things. It's too soon to tell.

[ShadowFacts]

On 3/25/2020 at 12:15 PM, tennisgurl said:

Or maybe its just an addict who cant stop even if he wanted to. Jimmy/Saul just needs to fuck with people, so he does. 

That's a very good distillation of him. 

18 hours ago, ByTor said:

Plus, knowing Saul & Kim are together, I STILL think Rich would be suspicious that she was in on the shenanigans.

Yes.  If Mesa Verde cuts ties with Schweikert, and with Saul being radioactive, I don't think Kim has a future there. 

[gallimaufry]

Few things I noticed on a second rewatch.

The Detective Tim scene was joyous.  I love the oxygen the show gives to even these minor characters and moments.

Kim says "you played me again" and Jimmy, before getting sidetracked, responds to "again" with mystification.  I assume this refers to 410.  This seems like an unexploded land mine in their relationship and I'm curious to see when it's going to go off.

I'm going to be surprised at this point if Rich isn't gathering evidence against Kim now.  The plan-switch on the Lubbock branch surely has to be paid off at some point.  And Jimmy's switcheroo with the address of the house in 505 is eerily reminiscent of 1261 and 1261 in Season 2 (a nice touch because now we recognise it as a quintessential Jimmy trick in the same way Chuck obviously recognised the 1216 con as a quintessential Jimmy con).  My guess is that he will, very abruptly and out of the blue, lay it all out to force her to cut ties.  Whether she goes down without a fight though, I wonder...

I do wonder how Kim will explain marrying Jimmy to Kevin and Paige.  I think Kevin might understand more readily the idea that Jimmy will do whatever it takes to get a victory as that's how he sees Kim.  But Paige has several times seen another side to Kim.  I've long thought that it would be Paige, not Kevin, who would be Kim's biggest problem.

What's most interesting though is that in Breaking Bad, Saul was part of "Saul Goodman & Associates".  Associates plural.  Now maybe that was just a grand way of referring to people like Huell and to give himself a touch of class.  But assuming Kim is one of the associates... who are the others?  

[ShadowFacts]

On 3/25/2020 at 3:34 PM, smartymarty said:

Googled "spousal privilege" in New Mexico, since in some states, only one spouse can claim it (i.e., witness spouse can decline to testify based on it, but defendant spouse can't prevent witness spouse from testifying if s/he wants to). New Mexico allowed either spouse to claim it. But interestingly, in a 2019 court decision, NM got rid of spousal privilege entirely as an outdated notion.

I think it's pretty irrelevant anyway.  It would not apply to anything that just happened, before they marry if they do.  And if Kim has the idea to use it in the future when they do underhanded/criminal things and want to avoid being compelled to testify, I don't think either one of them would have much problem lying under oath to begin with.  If she's going to marry him it should be for some other reason. 

[Clanstarling]

59 minutes ago, gallimaufry said:

I do wonder how Kim will explain marrying Jimmy to Kevin and Paige.  I think Kevin might understand more readily the idea that Jimmy will do whatever it takes to get a victory as that's how he sees Kim.  But Paige has several times seen another side to Kim.  I've long thought that it would be Paige, not Kevin, who would be Kim's biggest problem.

I agree. Kim has looked less and less enamored of Kim as time has gone on.

[scenario]

29 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think it's pretty irrelevant anyway.  It would not apply to anything that just happened, before they marry if they do.  And if Kim has the idea to use it in the future when they do underhanded/criminal things and want to avoid being compelled to testify, I don't think either one of them would have much problem lying under oath to begin with.  If she's going to marry him it should be for some other reason. 

My take is that Kim is at a decision point. She can either dump Jimmy and stay as a corporate attorney, which she hates but is the smart move. Or she can do what her hearts telling her to do and dump the corporate world, marry Jimmy and take a walk on the wild side. 

She didn't have any objections to the unethical things that Jimmy did. She had objections to Jimmy not letting her in on the scam. She hated being blindsided. 

[Eulipian 5k]

Since I don't see in Slippin Jimmy, a deep and abiding love and respect for the rule of law, I assume Jimmy became a lawyer only because Chuck had a law firm. (something he can raid, like Papa McGill's cash register.)

However, nothing in the scene with Lil Kim gave any reason she became a lawyer vs say, an Alcoholism Counselor. Do we know why Kim is so attached to being a lawyer? Jimmy has been able to make the Law play to his strengths, but Corporate law and her pro-bono Public Defender cases also seem beyond her sensibilities .

Financing a chain of Cinnabons in the mid-west is lookin' like a good career move for Kim.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Eulipian 5k
think BIG

[scenario]

4 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Since I don't see in Slippin Jimmy, a deep and abiding love and respect for the rule of law, I assume Jimmy became a lawyer only because Chuck had a law firm. (something he can raid, like Papa McGill's cash register.)

However, nothing in the scene with Lil Kim gave any reason she became a lawyer vs say, an Alcoholism Counselor. Do we know why Kim is so attached to being a lawyer? Jimmy has been able to make the Law play to his strengths, but Corporate law and her pro-bono Public Defender cases also seem beyond her sensibilities .

Financing that Cinnabons in the mid-west is lookin' like a good career move for Kim.

I get the feeling she wants to help the little guy against the big guy. But she ended up working for the big guy because that's where the money is and they were willing to pay for her to go to school. 

The problem for her is that most of the little guys are in trouble because they deserve to be in trouble because they are criminals. The cases with a perfectly innocent person being railroaded by a big mean corporation aren't as common as it seems, they are difficult to prove and they don't pay much. 

[Clanstarling]

28 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Since I don't see in Slippin Jimmy, a deep and abiding love and respect for the rule of law, I assume Jimmy became a lawyer only because Chuck had a law firm. (something he can raid, like Papa McGill's cash register.)

I don't either - and yet, Cinnabon Gene started spouting legal advice when the guy who'd been caught by the cops in the photo booth was dragged away by the cops. There's some reflex there that doesn't quite tally with Jimmy only getting into because of Chuck. And he was truly a good and thoughtful lawyer with the elderly.

I think Jimmy and Kim both think of themselves as one of the little guys, and lean toward helping the little guy - with up until now - very different tactics.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Clanstarling