Season 9 Discussion

[Sew Sumi]

And just to show how far behind production is, they're starting off the season with Carlin's (apparently comped) honeymoon. 

[answerphone]

Does anyone know exactly what happened during Kelton's sister's birth, that caused his mother's death?

He looked sad tonight, obviously scared something would happen to Josie. 😔

[Sew Sumi]

No, they've never given any details as to the cause of her death. Kelton talking about the epidural masking symptoms was more detail than we've ever gotten. And I am curious what symptoms the epidural masked? Something that could have been caughr? Was malpractice involved? 

So many questions...

[andromeda331]

I was wondering about that too. I haven't heard of epidurals having that kind of problem.

Yes, Erin we know you want everyone there when you give birth. You always want to be the center of attention.. And we saw you flip out when Tori didn't show up for Every's birth. 

Anyone else kept laughing as both Trace and his parents went on and on about Chaney and his parents? 

I do love how despite all the claims of loving courtship and chaperone rules every since couple continues to be happy the most that their finally alone. Carlin, Evan you think its great now imagine if you had that during your entire courtship? 

[RebeccatheWriter]

I will say I liked the way they didn't chop up the episode by going back and forth between the different couples/stories. I could tune out a couple and then watch the one I wanted without it changing back and forth. I almost feel like the first episode back should give a little bit of a re-introduction to the family to get people to know where everyone is at this point. Kelly Jo and Gil could narrate and say, "Our son Zach is our oldest and he's married with two kids and one on the way..." Yes, it would take up time but it would help fill in the gap for people who follow them on social media and watch the show. It could include the younger kids who aren't in relationships and could explain that this was filmed in June/July and all these pregnant women have since given birth.  

Erin is already grating on my nerves and this was the first episode of the new season. She, Lawson, and Carlin seriously want an audience for everything they do. I adore my best friend (who is like a sister to me) and I love her three children as if they were my own. I didn't want to be the delivery room with her. There are some things I don't need to see and experience with her. 

They covered quite a bit of time in this episode. Carlin and Evan married at the end of May and immediately went on their honeymoon. I remember because I was laughing that her first post wedding instagram post included her wearing jeans. I wondered if she had to sneak out to buy them while still living at home. Josie was due and gave birth in July. So clearly the Charleston thing was staged as the honeymoon since they went to a resort in the Dominican Republic (not filmed). 

I love that Josie is less like her sisters and mother and appreciate her attempts to avoid the circus show in the labor and delivery area. While I'm not so sure about the fad of a professional photographer taking snaps of every moment, I preferred it to the video where Erin and Kelly Jo are cheering and throwing out comments every few seconds. I'm not a fan of Kelton, but I felt for him in this. His mother's death was clearly on his mind as Josie struggled. I'm sure there were some rough moments for him and some rough ones for Josie with having to be in pain and worry about him freaking out.

I also liked how Zach is a dad to his kids. He actually had conversations with them when they were there for Whitney's ultrasound. Asking if the baby's mouth or nose looked like which child was cute. Of all the boys in the Bates family, he seems the most personable and normal. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by RebeccatheWriter

[Jeanne222]

I like the Bates.  They seem happy and cheerful.  Unlike the Duggers doom and gloom.

The Bates also seem to be prospering and moving along.  They all have homes or nice apartments.

I still can't get over the Duggers John David and Abby living in that old trailer on the Duggers ranch!  And Joy living in a camper.  Jesse in a mold house.

[lookeyloo]

31 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I like the Bates.  They seem happy and cheerful.  Unlike the Duggers doom and gloom.

The Bates also seem to be prospering and moving along.  They all have homes or nice apartments.

I still can't get over the Duggers John David and Abby living in that old trailer on the Duggers ranch!  And Joy living in a camper.  Jesse in a mold house.

I just think they are a prettier package of the same repulsive beliefs.  Joy moved into a house.  The inside of the trailer is pretty cute.  I wonder what it would take to get Jessa out of that tiny house.  Eleventy hundred kids?

[RebeccatheWriter]

41 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I like the Bates.  They seem happy and cheerful.  Unlike the Duggers doom and gloom.

The Bates also seem to be prospering and moving along.  They all have homes or nice apartments.

I still can't get over the Duggers John David and Abby living in that old trailer on the Duggers ranch!  And Joy living in a camper.  Jesse in a mold house.

The Bates are just as dangerous if not more so with their beliefs. Gil is still on the IBLP board. They have taken a lesson from how the Duggar family has screwed up, but they still slip and show themselves frequently. 

In terms of living conditions, the Duggars are still following Jim Bob's idea of no debt. While Gil Bates talks about that, the majority of the married kids don't own their own homes and rent. That would be an issue in the Duggars's no rent world. Right now Zach/Whitney and Josie/Kelton are the only ones who purchased a home. I don't know about Alyssa/John. Gil has commented that some of them don't want to go into debt on a mortgage. 

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with renting and prefer it at certain points in my life because I move more frequently. I just comment that the families view that IBLP principle of no debt very differently from each other.  

The Bates have been more covert with some of their beliefs, but there are some horrible ones that make me cringe. I prefer people who tell me who they really are rather than try to shine it up as something better. The best I can say for the Bates is that they don't have a Josh in the family that we know about now.  

[sadtvjunkie]

John and Alyssa don't own their home according to the Orange County property appraiser's page. They showed a video and they need to seriously declutter their home. It's a small 3 bedroom with stuff packed everywhere. I wondered if she has hoarding tendencies since they never had anything when she was growing up in their very small house. She was older when they enlarged their home with the Duggar's "help" and all the freebies started coming their way.

[BitterApple]

13 minutes ago, sadtvjunkie said:

John and Alyssa don't own their home according to the Orange County property appraiser's page. They showed a video and they need to seriously declutter their home. It's a small 3 bedroom with stuff packed everywhere. I wondered if she has hoarding tendencies since they never had anything when she was growing up in their very small house. She was older when they enlarged their home with the Duggar's "help" and all the freebies started coming their way.

Wow, I'm surprised to hear they don't own. I also agree about the clutter. For as perfect and coordinated as Alyssa projects herself on Instagram, her house is a cluster-you-know-what.

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

I just think they are a prettier package of the same repulsive beliefs.  Joy moved into a house.  The inside of the trailer is pretty cute.  I wonder what it would take to get Jessa out of that tiny house.  Eleventy hundred kids?

 

6 hours ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

The Bates are just as dangerous if not more so with their beliefs. Gil is still on the IBLP board. They have taken a lesson from how the Duggar family has screwed up, but they still slip and show themselves frequently. 

In terms of living conditions, the Duggars are still following Jim Bob's idea of no debt. While Gil Bates talks about that, the majority of the married kids don't own their own homes and rent. That would be an issue in the Duggars's no rent world. Right now Zach/Whitney and Josie/Kelton are the only ones who purchased a home. I don't know about Alyssa/John. Gil has commented that some of them don't want to go into debt on a mortgage. 

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with renting and prefer it at certain points in my life because I move more frequently. I just comment that the families view that IBLP principle of no debt very differently from each other.  

The Bates have been more covert with some of their beliefs, but there are some horrible ones that make me cringe. I prefer people who tell me who they really are rather than try to shine it up as something better. The best I can say for the Bates is that they don't have a Josh in the family that we know about now.  

Exactly. The Bates are just a prettier package then the Duggars. They've also tried their best to scrub their website to keep with their image. Such as removing the Pearls that they promoted and of course taking down their infamous "Patriots room" which had three Confederate generals one who was grand wizard of the KKK. They did do the buddy system which left Callie and Judson sobbing when their "moms" married and left and their daughters still did everything. They still do. Kelly doesn't part, cook, clean, teach or do anything and neither does Gil. Conveniently they've always had a daughter "volunteer" to take over that job from her sister who married and left. Kelly of course got really worried when it was Carlin's turn to leave since she'd only have three girls who are in pre-teens or early teens to do everything and tried to convince Alyssa to move back home who turned her down. Never fear Michael moved back home and is probably back doing her old job especially since every time she returned for a visit Kelly put her to work immediately. I know Tori moved back to but the jury's still out whether she's doing anything.

Gil's on the board of Gothard and covered up Gothard's sexual harassment until he became a liability and helped get him removed and kicked out. They even had a birthday cake made for Gothard when he came to Erin's wedding (and I think performed all or some of it) which Kelly later tried to lie and claim it was a groom's cake despite the picture clearly showing a small sign that read "Happy Birthday Gothard.

[RebeccatheWriter]

2 hours ago, sadtvjunkie said:

John and Alyssa don't own their home according to the Orange County property appraiser's page. They showed a video and they need to seriously declutter their home. It's a small 3 bedroom with stuff packed everywhere. I wondered if she has hoarding tendencies since they never had anything when she was growing up in their very small house. She was older when they enlarged their home with the Duggar's "help" and all the freebies started coming their way.

That is possible. My mother was the oldest of nine kids. She has that hoarder tendency with things, but also with food. Sometimes she has to remind herself that there is enough and she doesn't have to keep or eat everything.

I missed the part with Trace and Chaney last night due to my long time crush texting me (priorities). I just rewatched that part. So apparently lying on camera is perfectly acceptable. On the last season's I Love You Day episode, Trace brought Chaney to the party. Gil and Kelly both did interviews that they were totally shocked and Kelly Jo even talked about how she didn't expect it. Last night they both interviewed that Trace had asked them permission to invite her and that they had encouraged him to bring her. 

Between that and Evan and Carlin lying about going to Charleston before their honeymoon, it's getting to the point you can't really call them honest. They could have easily been more honest in both cases. They could have showed Carlin and Evan returning to their newly rented duplex and saying they had a wonderful honeymoon. They could have shown a few of the pictures they took while there and said something about having a private honeymoon, later showing the Charleston trip for what it was - a birthday trip and made-up on camera honeymoon. Kelly Jo really didn't have to say anything and contradict herself about Chaney. She could have simply said that Chaney attended that event and it was good to know she and Trace were still talking. Why make up lies when you contradict yourself. 

I believe he probably did have to ask permission. So last season's speech about the surprise was probably the actual lie. But people truly are expected to believe that Kelly Jo Bates - self-proclaimed secret spiller - would have a son invite a girl with permission to a big family event and keep it a secret from her daughters who all interviewed about being so shocked about it too. Right...it was a creative decision for the storyline. Too bad the producers forgot the storyline and had to go back to being overly involved and controlling hypocrites. 

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, I also caught the I Love You Day discrepancy and also believe that Trace had to ask permission to bring Chaney. It's possible that the other marrieds were truly surprised, but we know that Kelly is a gossiping busybody,so it's equally possible that she spilled the beans. 

[65mickey]

53 minutes ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

That is possible. My mother was the oldest of nine kids. She has that hoarder tendency with things, but also with food. Sometimes she has to remind herself that there is enough and she doesn't have to keep or eat everything.

I missed the part with Trace and Chaney last night due to my long time crush texting me (priorities). I just rewatched that part. So apparently lying on camera is perfectly acceptable. On the last season's I Love You Day episode, Trace brought Chaney to the party. Gil and Kelly both did interviews that they were totally shocked and Kelly Jo even talked about how she didn't expect it. Last night they both interviewed that Trace had asked them permission to invite her and that they had encouraged him to bring her. 

Between that and Evan and Carlin lying about going to Charleston before their honeymoon, it's getting to the point you can't really call them honest. They could have easily been more honest in both cases. They could have showed Carlin and Evan returning to their newly rented duplex and saying they had a wonderful honeymoon. They could have shown a few of the pictures they took while there and said something about having a private honeymoon, later showing the Charleston trip for what it was - a birthday trip and made-up on camera honeymoon. Kelly Jo really didn't have to say anything and contradict herself about Chaney. She could have simply said that Chaney attended that event and it was good to know she and Trace were still talking. Why make up lies when you contradict yourself. 

I believe he probably did have to ask permission. So last season's speech about the surprise was probably the actual lie. But people truly are expected to believe that Kelly Jo Bates - self-proclaimed secret spiller - would have a son invite a girl with permission to a big family event and keep it a secret from her daughters who all interviewed about being so shocked about it too. Right...it was a creative decision for the storyline. Too bad the producers forgot the storyline and had to go back to being overly involved and controlling hypocrites. 

So  You are saying that Carlin and Evan did not go to Charleston before leaving for the honeymoon in what ever the island was that they went to? Why would they make this up? Why not just say we went to Charleston after we back? Doesn't make sense to me.I don't get this. 

[RebeccatheWriter]

18 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

So  You are saying that Carlin and Evan did not go to Charleston before leaving for the honeymoon in what ever the island was that they went to? Why would they make this up? Why not just say we went to Charleston after we back? Doesn't make sense to me.I don't get this. 

I assume it is producer driven. They were at a resort for their honeymoon. I remember they posted pics on Instagram that included Carlin wearing jeans and both of them holding their passports. It was within 24 hours of their wedding. There is no way they went to Charleston first. Carlin and Evan even said on Instagram that no film crew was with them on their honeymoon. People were joking about all the pics they were taking of themselves on the beach and places, wondering if they propped their phones up strategically or harassed every resort employee to play paparazzi. 

Most of those resorts don't allow filming so the show seems to like to stage a honeymoon for the couples more local that can be filmed. They did it with Josie and Kelton too with Asheville. You could tell it was after their honeymoon because the leaves had changed colors and when they got married in October of 2018 the leaves hadn't changed yet in that area. Josie and Kelton basically had the same conversation about being able to kiss and be alone, as did Tori and Bobby on their honeymoon episode. You'd think the show producers would want something new.

My issue with both of these is that they don't just film these other trips and have people assume it is the honeymoon. That would be one thing, but they don't just show them on vacation. They have them say on camera that they took a trip before the honeymoon and have stilted fake conversations about how strange it is to be alone together when they have been married for a month or two when it is filmed.

 For people who claim to want to be so virtuous, they don't seem to have a problem lying. 

From a story perspective, it would have made more sense for the first scene we saw of them is them coming home to their first home together. They could do their talking heads that they had a nice private honeymoon and shown a picture or two. Then show them at home and excited about their new "normal" life together. They can still show Charleston but do it in the appropriate timeline and not faked as something it wasn't. It's lazy storytelling and very disingenuous.

With them being so blatant about the lying and inconsistencies, it is hard to believe anything they say as anything other than branding for the their family show and all their little side businesses.  

[cereality]

Only caught maybe ½ of the episode so I missed all of Trace/Chaney and saw just the last few min of the Evan/Carlin Charleston trip and then all of Josie and Kelton.

Didn’t even realize that E&C didn’t go to Charleston as part of their honeymoon. Looks like the wedding/honeymoon were in May/June and then Charleston was more like August/Sept. Watching it they seemed like giggly-hardly know each other married couple that is so common in fundie world. It’s kind of sad that they had been living and sleeping together for 2 mos at that point and were still acting like 6th graders holding hands or being alone with a boy for the first time. Until you all said it, I figured they went to Charleston first for a few days and then to the actual honeymoon in the Caribbean. I feel like some Bates have done that – Kelton and Josie went to Asheville first I believe and then maybe the Bahamas; and many of the Duggar couples have done that.

I always figured immediately after driving away from the reception (or ice cream in the parking lot or whatever), all they want to do is boink each others brains out – or if they are going to progress like a normal couple – kiss; hold hands; lay there undressed in front of each other etc. even if they don’t go all the way on night 1.  So why fly somewhere when you legit have no interest in even leaving the room.  Much better to spend 2-3 days non stop naked at a local Marriott and THEN when you actually want to engage with the world again, you can fly off to the Bahamas.

Kelton and Josie – he just seemed no where near ready to be a father. I don’t say that in criticism.  He was only 13 years old when his mother passed, and instantly he went from being in a traditional nuclear family being around his mother all the time to being raised by a single dad and likely having some responsibility for helping raise his siblings.  And then 10 years later he gets married. 10 years isn’t that long of a time when he’s processing his life being forever altered while simultaneously going thru puberty; discovering girls; being reigned in re girls bc GOD; going off to college; and then BAM 3 minutes after college, he’s married and 9 mos later, he’s confronting the very process that took his mother from him. 

I’m not saying he won’t always be freaked out by childbirth, I’m sure he will. But I just think a 30 year old MAN would deal with it differently than this boy.  But gotta keep racing thru life with your bible college buddies, emotional readiness be damned . . . must marry at 22 bc you can’t be the only guy not having SEX; must impregnate the wife on your honeymoon bc as bestie Bobby said in the wedding toast – they were in SUCH different life stages in the 10 mos one was married and having sex and the other wasn’t. . . . I mean how on earth would a father relate to his bestie if he wasn’t also a father in the same exact time frame??

[answerphone]

Well said, Cereality!

[curbcrusher]

On 3/6/2020 at 3:45 PM, sadtvjunkie said:

John and Alyssa don't own their home according to the Orange County property appraiser's page. They showed a video and they need to seriously declutter their home. It's a small 3 bedroom with stuff packed everywhere. I wondered if she has hoarding tendencies since they never had anything when she was growing up in their very small house. She was older when they enlarged their home with the Duggar's "help" and all the freebies started coming their way.

They might not show up on the Orange County Property Appraisers page because they live in Lake County. The HOA park they visit in their YouTube videos is for a neighborhood in Cleremont. 

[Sew Sumi]

Yes, they live in Cleremont.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Sew Sumi
Stupid autocorrect

[Squirrely]

Did anyone else notice that they blurred the tiny sliver Carlin's midriff peeking out when they were crabbing? Her shirt came up a little bit while she was flailing about. That's almost as bad as the black boxes covering Michelle Duggar's knees that one time. 

[Absolom]

Ratings for episode 1:  238 K viewers and a .06 rating.  128th cable show of the day.

[Temperance]

3 hours ago, Absolom said:

Ratings for episode 1:  238 K viewers and a .06 rating.  128th cable show of the day.

High or lower than average?

[answerphone]

Gosh, it's so boring and scripted now.

And Gil, please take your hand off your wife's thigh for a few minutes.

[Sew Sumi]

7 minutes ago, answerphone said:

Gosh, it's so boring and scripted now.

It's the Duggars with prettier packaging.

[iluvobx]

On 3/6/2020 at 7:31 PM, 65mickey said:

So  You are saying that Carlin and Evan did not go to Charleston before leaving for the honeymoon in what ever the island was that they went to? Why would they make this up? Why not just say we went to Charleston after we back? Doesn't make sense to me.I don't get this. 

We could find out when they were in Charleston by asking Tia.  She is the one that did the crabbing adventure.  She is really great at it and a lot of fun and she stays booked!  My family had to make reservations with her over 3 months in advance!

[RebeccatheWriter]

20 hours ago, iluvobx said:

We could find out when they were in Charleston by asking Tia.  She is the one that did the crabbing adventure.  She is really great at it and a lot of fun and she stays booked!  My family had to make reservations with her over 3 months in advance!

Or you can look at Carlin's social media. They got married May 25.  May 26 the photo is their hands and passports. Next pics are at the resort.  Pics of them returning home are June 4. Charleston pics are posted at the end of August. On August 28 she posts a pic of herself in Charleston and says it is their first time there and wants suggestions on what to see.  

Edited March 10, 2020 by RebeccatheWriter

[iluvobx]

13 hours ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

Or you can look at Carlin's social media. They got married May 25.  May 26 the photo is their hands and passports. Next pics are at the resort.  Pics of them returning home are June 4. Charleston pics are posted at the end of August. On August 28 she posts a pic of herself in Charleston and says it is their first time there and wants suggestions on what to see.  

I don't care enough to follow them on Instagram 😜  I actually have no words---I really don't care enough about what they are doing, where they go, what they wear, etc.  Only time I would care is if they were somewhere where I was at.  That would be a disaster.  It really got me when Evan said to the hostess I understand you have a roof top where we can eat.  BARF!  Talk about a set up, that and the carriage ride.  That has to be booked in advanced also.  The one thing I was excited about was Tia getting some exposure.

I always worry about them being in the PF-Gatlinburg area when I am there, hope that I don't have to worry about Charleston in the future.

[RebeccatheWriter]

11 minutes ago, iluvobx said:

I don't care enough to follow them on Instagram 😜  I actually have no words---I really don't care enough about what they are doing, where they go, what they wear, etc.  Only time I would care is if they were somewhere where I was at.  That would be a disaster.  It really got me when Evan said to the hostess I understand you have a roof top where we can eat.  BARF!  Talk about a set up, that and the carriage ride.  That has to be booked in advanced also.  The one thing I was excited about was Tia getting some exposure.

I always worry about them being in the PF-Gatlinburg area when I am there, hope that I don't have to worry about Charleston in the future.

I don't follow them either. I simply looked it up to confirm my guess about all the lies that I detected in one episode. It's one thing with producers and editors switch stuff around to make the story more cohesive and understandable in smaller bites. I can accept that and have had to do it myself in my job. What I can't and don't condone is the fact that several of the family members, including Kelly Jo and Gil will blatantly lie while branding themselves as some wholesome and religious family. If they are going to lie, it would be better to at least stick to the same story. 

Last season was the season of product placements with the Cheerios segment that Zach and family did, the chicken products episode of Valentines, and the Top Golf segment that they must have been paid by the mention. Those are just a few. I guess this season will be the one of lies. 

[65mickey]

What I don't understand is why lie about when they went to Charleston?  What's the point of this? Who cares if they went before the honeymoon or in August? I must be missing something here. Wouldn't it have been better to do another show on the Charleston trip? I'm sure that they could have stretched it out for a 30 minute show. As it was shown last week it was just thrown in to a show with a bunch of other random stuff. 

[Absolom]

For some reason the producers wanted us to think they were showing us part of the honeymoon.  I guess the wedding isn't enough any more.

[iluvobx]

10 hours ago, Absolom said:

For some reason the producers wanted us to think they were showing us part of the honeymoon.  I guess the wedding isn't enough any more.

Truthfully, I am glad that they didn't do a whole half hour or hour with those two.  That I could not take, I would rather watch commercials than those two.  Same with Tori & Bobby.  Nope, they really get on my last nerve and truthfully, I can do without Kelly Jo.  Gil doesn't bother me as much.

 

[PradaKitty]

I have finally decided the reason that so many fundie brides become pregnant on their honeymoon is that the virgin grooms finally get to release all of the sperm that’s been building up for years. It’s like a flood...

 

[Eureka]

On 3/14/2020 at 2:28 PM, PradaKitty said:

I have finally decided the reason that so many fundie brides become pregnant on their honeymoon is that the virgin grooms finally get to release all of the sperm that’s been building up for years. It’s like a flood...

 

Lol. But seriously, do you think they plan their weddings around their cycles?

[IndianPaintbrush]

No, I don't think they plan weddings around their cycles. Their weddings happen rather quickly after the engagement, and I just don't see how you could book a church with your menstrual cycle in mind. It's really not a mystery why so many get pregnant on the honeymoon - all it takes is one time, and being a virgin doesn't make you immune.

 

[RebeccatheWriter]

My pet peeve this season and the last few is the word baby in front of the names of the grandkids. Baby Willow and Baby Kade. Seriously, do they do that to remind themselves?

Edited March 16, 2020 by RebeccatheWriter

[Misslindsey]

9 hours ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

My pet peeve this season and the last few is the word baby in front of the names of the grandkids. Baby Willow and Baby Kade. Seriously, do they do that to remind themselves?

Oooh, I want to be called Adult Misslindsey now. 

[RebeccatheWriter]

On 3/17/2020 at 12:18 AM, Misslindsey said:

Oooh, I want to be called Adult Misslindsey now. 

I grew up next to a woman named Rebecca. Around the neighborhood she was Big Becky and I was Little Becky. However, outside of that I was Becky and later Rebecca. I assume most people were not confused. It would make sense of they were using the same name as someone else (Kade going by Robert or Bobby), but they aren't. I first picked up on it when they decorated Kade's nursery.  Tori, Kelly Jo, Erin, and the others kept referring to him as Baby Kade. "I love Baby Kade's crib." "I think we need to shop for Baby Is a nursery." " I am planning to be there she Baby Kade is born. " It seems redundant. I hear It now with Erin's kids - each with that title until the Layla and Willow seem to get that reference too. 

It is a minor thing that bothers me. i cannot say I have never referred to a baby that way. It is just sort of one of those things that results in a twitch from me like their grammar. At the same time it seems to speak to the family's reliance on labels and categories. 

Edited March 19, 2020 by RebeccatheWriter

[cereality]

So I caught last week and this week's episodes tonight. Same as usual.

Chad continues to look like the oldest 32 year old ever, as he goes on about #blessings and how his heart grows with each child esp as each child gets old enough to say -- I love you. Great but it's a mystery how he intends to support 20 kids with all the free work he gives away. This episode featured turning Kelton and Josie's 1970s home into the HGTV home of his dreams. While Chad was there on a weekend adding beams to support the structure, we know from IG he did plenty of weekday work there as well with his crew in tow and while I'm sure (or I hope) he charges for these family jobs, you know it's more like cost or very minimal profit -- he can't be charging double time as he would to do a job for a stranger on a weekend. As I've been saying for years, he should've been out there doing jobs for strangers 24-7 to make money bc home remodeling is a discretionary good and when a recession comes -- like it looks now -- remodeling is one of the first things that goes as people decide their closed concept home or their un-remodeled kitchen is perfectly fine.

Why do these idiots have kids so close together that they can't raise and homeschool them effectively?? Unethused, I don't care about anything Tori is now the homeschool teacher for Carson and Brooklyn and Bradley and whatever Whit's oldest daughter's name is? So I guess as they get older 1-2 sister will do the homeschooling for all? Good thing Michaela is pursuing nursing and already talking about not staying in the area or else it would be her job.

And Chaney was NOT comfortable in that family since day 1 but 23 year old Trace is too inexperienced with girls to even notice; as her his brothers as no one could have seen the discomfort written on her face?? She clearly did NOT want to "model" for the Bates sisters boutique and agreed out of politeness. Then Kelly has to FaceTime Trace and Kelly and all the sisters have to be like -- you always call her Ch-Baby, why aren't you calling her that now -- as Chaney is embarrassed and goes "now look your whole family is calling me crazy names . . . ." And then they get on her about moving to Tenn and working with the sisters and again she is NOT interested . . . as Trace goes, sounds great to me! And then there's bringing your 7 and 8 yr old brothers on a date with your girlfriend esp when your gf isn't local and you only see her every so often!?

Good for Chaney for cutting her losses. IDK what her family situation is -- I'm guessing not such an overly large family. But in any event she saw the writing on the wall -- a guy who isn't his own man and just wants to be the nice guy in front of his nuclear family and thus would NOT stand up for what his woman wanted -- i.e. if she wanted to live back in Texas or pick a 3rd place on their own. Trace is looking for a girl who doesn't separate him from his family (like Carlin separated Evan or even moreso Bobby and Tori), but one who just wants to come into this family and be besties -- or at least pretend besties -- with his mom and sisters so that his life stays 100% the same as he works for Chad, hangs out with his brothers and college friends in town etc. That's fine but that wasn't this particular girl. Frankly he needs a hometown girl so he can get into the Josie and Kelton set up.

[Tikichick]

I will say this, Tori is a completely different person working with those little kids.  I would never have guessed from watching her personality and demeanor previously that she's seemingly cut out to be a preschool or kindergarten teacher.  She was very relaxed and seemed genuine in her interactions with the kids themselves.  Sure, she expressed how exhausting it is, but she never once demonstrated being frazzled in the least.  Maybe it was just super clever editing, but considering several young children and a baby were involved it seems like something would have made it to screen.

[BitterApple]

I skipped the first episode, so I didn't see the initial scenes between Chaney and Trace. However, catching up with ep.02, it's easy to see why Chaney (and Ashley before her) fled for the hills. The Bateses are soooo pushy and domineering. Having a close family is great but I don't want relatives up in my business 24/7.

Is it me or does Kelton seem way more excited about the house than Josie? 

It doesn't seem like there's all that much structure going on with the homeschool. Tori's surprisingly good with the kids, but she's about to have 2 babies under 2. There's no way she can deal with that and four pre-schoolers. 

Chad is digging himself an early grave. I hope he's prudent with finances, because construction is heavily dependent upon the economy. If this Corona thing drags out, he could be in for a world of hurt. 

[Tikichick]

31 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I skipped the first episode, so I didn't see the initial scenes between Chaney and Trace. However, catching up with ep.02, it's easy to see why Chaney (and Ashley before her) fled for the hills. The Bateses are soooo pushy and domineering. Having a close family is great but I don't want relatives up in my business 24/7.

Is it me or does Kelton seem way more excited about the house than Josie? 

It doesn't seem like there's all that much structure going on with the homeschool. Tori's surprisingly good with the kids, but she's about to have 2 babies under 2. There's no way she can deal with that and four pre-schoolers. 

Chad is digging himself an early grave. I hope he's prudent with finances, because construction is heavily dependent upon the economy. If this Corona thing drags out, he could be in for a world of hurt. 

I wondered why the story was so Kelton heavy, and then it sunk in -- their baby was ten days old.  Then I was shocked Josie was there at all, let alone supposedly wielding a paint roller.  I about fell off my chair when they showed the newborn herself was there, while a home with heaven only knows what environmental pollutants floating in the air was undergoing demolition and renovation around her.   And I got stuck wondering where was baby when Josie and Carlin were filming their bits in the house?

I thought it was more than a bit much when Erin told the girlfriend in front of God, the television cameras and everybody -- well you're gonna be a Bates anyway.   I understand they do chaperones and no one on one dating and have rules about kissing, embracing, etc -- but are they moving to proposals by proxy?   If so that one was severely lacking -- and NOT one Erin would dream of for herself!  

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

I wondered why the story was so Kelton heavy, and then it sunk in -- their baby was ten days old.  

Oh, wow, I didn't realize Willow was literally fresh out the womb. That would explain Josie being tired and lackluster. I didn't understand Kelton's big push for a house in the first place. I mean, I get that it would be in the long-term plan, but right now all Willow does is eat and sleep. It's not like a yard or more living space is an absolute necessity at this point. I think I would've at least waited until my wife's lady parts had healed before undertaking a big move and renovation. 

[Absolom]

Ratings this week:  215 K viewers and a .06 rating.  113th cable show of the day.

[Sew Sumi]

Interesting that they're not gaining viewers while the entire country is cooped up. 

[Absolom]

How many homes get UP?  That may be a big factor in their viewership.

[Sew Sumi]

With flat ratings, that would assume that the maximum number of homes were already watching before coronavirus.

[Kiss my mutt]

3 hours ago, Absolom said:

How many homes get UP?  That may be a big factor in their viewership.

That’s a great question. We don’t get it in our package so I just follow along here and watch the older episodes online. 

[andromeda331]

Chad looks terrible. I can't imagine have a spouse looking that bad and just ignoring that to keep piling on work. Chad you can say no to your in-laws. Or just start demanding they pay you that'll probably get them to stop calling you in for free jobs. 

They ended up closing two days after Willow was born but did they really have to start working right away? You own the house you can wait a little bit before starting or at least have your wife wait a few weeks before painting. Why on would you take a baby that young to a construction site? That can't be good for her. Where did she go when Josie and Carlin were painting the room? How much would it stink to constantly have to give up free labor for your in-laws. Chad with his free labor, Evan with free electrical work. 

Its getting easy to see why Chaney bolted. The family keeps putting her on the spot and being obnoxious. Plus Trace really isn't given her any time to just get use to him or any of it. He meets her skiing and thinks the best time for her to come and meet his family is that I Love You Day, with everyone there and on camera for their show. Then they make her be the one to pick the winners of their contest. Now she comes to visit and they immediately put her on the spot again to be a model. Trace blows it by calling her his nickname on the phone in front of his mother and sisters. Great that had to be fun for her. Follow that up by bowling with Judson and Jed who are decide to be completely obnoxious. Or at least Judson with not letting the two sit next to each other. Not to mention being on camera both times for his family's show.

Part of me does wonder if Trace is just more into finally having a girlfriend then Chaney. Why out of all the times to when he could have introduced her to his family did he pick the big holiday with all the couples and cameras? He easily could have picked a more low key time.  Saying the nickname in front of his mother and sisters? Most guys try really hard not to do that because of the teasing that follows. Maybe he's just an idiot and making a lot of mistakes in his first relationship. I don't know. 

[RebeccatheWriter]

14 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

They ended up closing two days after Willow was born but did they really have to start working right away? You own the house you can wait a little bit before starting or at least have your wife wait a few weeks before painting. Why on would you take a baby that young to a construction site? That can't be good for her. Where did she go when Josie and Carlin were painting the room? How much would it stink to constantly have to give up free labor for your in-laws. Chad with his free labor, Evan with free electrical work. 

I am not sure, but I have a feeling that the timeline was muddled by the producers there. Willow was born July 19. So that puts them closing July 21. July 21 was a Sunday. So let's say they closed on July 22. I'm guessing they probably filmed a little when they started the process of remodeling. My guess is that Josie was only there with Willow for a few minutes to be seen on camera and then went back to the apartment. 

I don't know when Carlin and Evan announced her pregnancy to the family, but we know the picnic with the pinata was announced after Willow's birth. So my guess is that the filming of the painting was even later than the filming of the demolition and not at the same time. Otherwise it doesn't make sense for Carlin to talk about being pregnant within days of Josie giving birth. 

ETA: I looked back and at the picnic, Josie or someone has Willow on her hip. So that would indicate that it wasn't in July or early August. We know they went to Charleston in late August and announced the pregnancy to the world on September 4. 

My best guess would be that they filmed the painting scene in September. 

14 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Its getting easy to see why Chaney bolted. The family keeps putting her on the spot and being obnoxious. Plus Trace really isn't given her any time to just get use to him or any of it. He meets her skiing and thinks the best time for her to come and meet his family is that I Love You Day, with everyone there and on camera for their show. Then they make her be the one to pick the winners of their contest. Now she comes to visit and they immediately put her on the spot again to be a model. Trace blows it by calling her his nickname on the phone in front of his mother and sisters. Great that had to be fun for her. Follow that up by bowling with Judson and Jed who are decide to be completely obnoxious. Or at least Judson with not letting the two sit next to each other. Not to mention being on camera both times for his family's show.

Part of me does wonder if Trace is just more into finally having a girlfriend then Chaney. Why out of all the times to when he could have introduced her to his family did he pick the big holiday with all the couples and cameras? He easily could have picked a more low key time.  Saying the nickname in front of his mother and sisters? Most guys try really hard not to do that because of the teasing that follows. Maybe he's just an idiot and making a lot of mistakes in his first relationship. I don't know. 

I have been vocal that I was curious about how Kelly Jo would react to a potential daughter-in-law. She bullies the boys who date her daughters terribly. Clearly she is the same way with the girls who have interest in her sons. 

Judson and Jed were not even close to being ready to be chaperones. Chaney and Trace were basically babysitting instead of having a date. These Bates kids need to learn to say back off to their parents. While I believe that they certainly knew her and knew of her before the "I Love You Day" party, I still think they are horribly presumptuous and rude to her. She is trying to get to know Trace, not the whole family. Just like there was no need for Brandon to have to get to know the whole family like Kelly Jo wanted, there was no need to Chaney to have to either. Heck if I'd gotten to know my extended family, I wouldn't have chosen to be a part of my family either (if it was a choice). 

If they are going to insist on chaperones, Trace should have arranged for some double dates with the married siblings. Dinner with Erin and Chad (probably a bad idea) or movie night with Zach and Whitney. It would have been a lot more lowkey and less obtrusive. Sure the siblings could have called each other and gossiped about who had or hadn't met her yet, but she would not be subjected to it. 

If I was her, I would have said something to him about pulling in his family. He should have stood up to his mother and sisters and said, no to the modeling with everyone present and questioning/teasing her. 

 

_____

 

That brings up another thing. So the other week Kelly Jo tells everyone she doesn't want to intrude on her daughters'/children's lives with things. It was in response to telling Josie things about childbirth. She is notoriously all up in their business all the time. The big example this episode was her being the one in charge at the photo shoot. Last I checked it was the Bates Sisters Boutique. She is not a sister or even a sister-in-law. She's the mother. Let the girls do their thing and stop trying to be one of them. Good grief, Kelly Jo! You are 53 not 25. 

Edited March 23, 2020 by RebeccatheWriter

[cereality]

I genuinely think Trace (and Nathan) gave ZERO thought to how he'd get a girl while getting around his family's dumbass requirements and make it easy and comfortable for the girl he supposedly loves. I think they both think they are God's gift and/or the headship so of course ANY girl will do anything to be with them and she'd be lucky to have his obnoxious mom and sisters as her bestie. Cue -- exit from said girl.

All the other courtships thus far (besides Zach) have been girl courtships. The lame jobless men who came thru the door had to deal with Kelly being overbearing and Tori/Carlin etc. being obnoxious but they laughed along with it when they visited bc they knew this was only 50% of the relationship. The other 50% was when the girls visited them and there they could act like a normal couple. When one of these people dates and then goes to visit her bf in Michigan or Fla. or DC, sure she brings a sibling chaperone bc she isn't bringing a 7 year old who'll need babysitting and will decide to be an obnoxious show off; she tends to bring an age 15+ yr old chaperone who doesn't need to her veggies cut up.

Sure the couple may do group dates still -- but like Evan and Carlin or Alyssa and John, they went out skating/to the beach etc. w a group of his siblings/friends and the chaperone sibling could hang with his siblings allowing the dating sibling some time with their bf. Frankly while at his place, they even go out alone -- as Brandon and reluctant rule following Michaela even did. Erin and Josie were the only ones who dated locally. Erin is Kelly Part 2 and that's what she wants to be, so in her case she wasn't even trying to get away from Kelly -- she was showing Chad 100% what he was getting into -- and he was horny enough that he was fine with it. And Josie -- she gave it some thought re how she'd skirt the rules will dating locally bc given that she doesn't even like her family once, you know she wasn't going to let 7 or 10 yr old siblings block. She she gave it 2 seconds of thought and her chaperones were often Zach and Whit -- who already think Gil and Kelly are full of BS and thus they likely were able to hang in their living room talking or watching a movie without Z&W sitting on top of them. I mean Z told Kelton how much BS this was when Kelton asked his advice about asking Gil for permission to get engaged and Z dismissively says -- tell him you've prayed on it, and this is what God wants, what's he going to do about that. LOL.

Trace OTOH carved out NO time for Chaney to just get to know. When she's visited she's accosted by I Love You day, the damn siblings boutique, and being teased over a nickname while being told she's got to move to Knox to be with Trace. When he visits her, he brought MOMMY with him. I mean he couldn't have thought about his gf (or any girl's) comfort with a future LOUD, obnoxious mother in law and NOT brought her but instead brought one of his quieter bros who couldn't care less either way if they go on long walks together and kiss -- like Jackson/Warden/Isaiah??

The only way it will work for these guys is if they do what Z did. After his broken courtship he realized his parents BS and then got to know Whit ON HIS OWN -- established his own friendship and relationship with her before really bringing her around the family; after all he was even able to kiss before marriage so clearly he didn't have a sibling hanging off his leg all the time. And IDK for sure but it seems like there was some strategy there too bc I don't think he was bringing her around during the big camera worthy times of the year like I Love You day or Christmas when the family is apt to be even more obnoxious as it plays up to the cameras.