S02.E15 Double Blind

[Whimsy]

Quote

Tasked with turning the opioid epidemic around, Max shuts down the ED and proposes a huge change. Meanwhile, Sharpe goes to great lengths to prove a point.

Original airdate 2/25/20

[ams1001]

Why is the Chair of Behavioral Health at a huge hospital doing couples counseling? Is there any kind of therapy this guy doesn't do?

(No comment on the idea that Max is supposed to single-handedly fix the entire opioid epidemic.)

[LittleIggy]

What if, instead of a cute young couple, the people seeing Iggy were an older man and a younger woman who turned out to be father (was an anonymous sperm donor while in college) and daughter? Would Iggy encourage that? I was squicked out by the whole thing. BTW, their marriage would be void ab initio.

Gina Gerson sure looked good. I dislike Bloom so much, I didn’t feel sorry for her.

Knew it was personal for Brantley.

Yay! Max’s new assistant was back.

[CoyoteBlue]

Eh, I wasn't nearly as wigged out about the half-sibling thing. It became taboo for two big reasons: in-breeding (but we know how to avoid that) and the need to create connections and alliances outside your birth group. They weren't raised as siblings, they aren't part of the same family and they don't need to have children together (although, honestly, with some real genetic workups, I'm sure they can be given a risk value for breeding, As long as their genes are healthy and they aren't carriers for dangerous recessives...). Just because some of their DNA is in the same formation doesn't mean anything qualitative - don't tell anyone and calm the hell down.

[preeya]

1 hour ago, CoyoteBlue said:

Eh, I wasn't nearly as wigged out about the half-sibling thing. It became taboo for two big reasons: in-breeding (but we know how to avoid that) and the need to create connections and alliances outside your birth group. They weren't raised as siblings, they aren't part of the same family and they don't need to have children together (although, honestly, with some real genetic workups, I'm sure they can be given a risk value for breeding, As long as their genes are healthy and they aren't carriers for dangerous recessives...). Just because some of their DNA is in the same formation doesn't mean anything qualitative - don't tell anyone and calm the hell down.

And on the other side of the "what if" . . . . . What if they never had the DNA test and did procreate without any knowledge of their backgrounds??

How many of those couples really exist?

Edited February 26, 2020 by preeya

[LittleIggy]

I didn’t like Iggy putting all of the pressure on the woman to “get over it.” 

[hula-la]

2 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

What if, instead of a cute young couple, the people seeing Iggy were an older man and a younger woman who turned out to be father (was an anonymous sperm donor while in college) and daughter? Would Iggy encourage that? I was squicked out by the whole thing. BTW, their marriage would be void ab initio.

I learned a new word! 

[CarpeFelis]

6 hours ago, hula-la said:

I learned a new word! 

Speaking of words: Iggy says there’s one “inconvertible” truth, that they can never have kids. Sorry, Iggy, the word you wanted is “incontrovertible” — shame on you, writers!

[Kelda Feegle]

34 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

Speaking of words: Iggy says there’s one “inconvertible” truth, that they can never have kids. Sorry, Iggy, the word you wanted is “incontrovertible” — shame on you, writers!

Thank heavens i wasn't the only one that picked this up! I shouted at the TV.

[ams1001]

36 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

Speaking of words: Iggy says there’s one “inconvertible” truth, that they can never have kids. Sorry, Iggy, the word you wanted is “incontrovertible” — shame on you, writers!

lol, I caught that, too. Was it the writing or did he screw up his line and no one noticed?

Edited February 26, 2020 by ams1001

[CarpeFelis]

7 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I didn’t like Iggy putting all of the pressure on the woman to “get over it.” 

Same here. I wonder, had their feelings been reversed, would Iggy have pressured him to “get over it”, or pressured her to accept that it was over between them? Either way, he shouldn’t be pressuring anyone!

This, plus they resolved it in one session?!

[CarpeFelis]

19 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

lol, I caught that, too. Was it the writing or did he screw up his line and no one noticed?

If he screwed up his line and no one noticed, that’s almost as bad!

[UNOSEZ]

3 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

This, plus they resolved it in one session?!

Yeah seems like that would've taken some time... He felt biased to make it work.. Didn't like that... 

Never trusted or liked Castro so not surprised... 

Still wondering how they'll keep Reynolds at new Amsterdam... Cuz I don't think the actor is leaving the show... 

Those nylers really dropped the hammer when max ripped up the contract.. 

Opiod episodes are always a bit bittersweet for me... I'm happy the epidemic is being addressed.. And they are looking at all the ways the problem can be addressed and how it started...

But depressed at how different this was treated compared to the crack epidemic that went on before I was born.. How the sick ppl are treated as victims now compared to then... Even in the boss lady's actions tonight... If this was a worse show I'm  sure she  would've looked into the camera and  said.. This time its personal... In other words this time it matters... Hard not to see the racial and societal differences ( especially in the early stages of both epidemics)  and not feel a certain type of way 

[CarpeFelis]

I was surprised the OD turned out to be Brantley’s daughter. But when they first wheeled her in I thought it would be Bloom’s mother!

Anyone else wondering if Bloom’s stairwell conversation about Castro altering records was overheard? I half expected Castro to walk in on it.

[nixgirl28]

8 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I didn’t like Iggy putting all of the pressure on the woman to “get over it.” 

Yes. She was obviously very upset about the situation and neither Iggy or the fiance seemed to care, just wanted to move along towards the wedding. and do any of them think her feelings won't pop up again, or possibly grow over time? Her discomfort about it was really but Iggy didn't care.

[preeya]

1 hour ago, CarpeFelis said:

Speaking of words: Iggy says there’s one “inconvertible” truth, that they can never have kids. Sorry, Iggy, the word you wanted is “incontrovertible” — shame on you, writers!

I didn't catch the "mistake," however, the dictionary definition of INCONVERTIBLE is as follows:

"The first definition of inconvertible in the dictionary is incapable of being converted or changed.

I don't recall how he used it in a sentence, but we may have to give him/them the benefit of the doubt.

[LittleIggy]

2 hours ago, nixgirl28 said:

Yes. She was obviously very upset about the situation and neither Iggy or the fiance seemed to care, just wanted to move along towards the wedding. and do any of them think her feelings won't pop up again, or possibly grow over time? Her discomfort about it was really but Iggy didn't care.

Wouldn’t want them to lose the deposits for the catering, etc. 🙄

[preeya]

32 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Wouldn’t want them to lose the deposits for the catering, etc. 🙄

OR disappoint their family members some of which caused the mess.

I don't recall what was said, but how were they related, if anyone recalls?

[UNOSEZ]

6 minutes ago, preeya said:

don't recall what was said, but how were they related, if anyone recalls?

Half siblings due to anonymous sperm donor

[meira.hand]

2 minutes ago, preeya said:

I don't recall what was said, but how were they related, if anyone recalls?

Both mothers used sperm from a sperm bank that apparently came from the same donor (they came from a small town) but the families were not acquainted. It did seem a little strange because I would assume, to be on the safe side, that sperm banks would not leave multiple samples in the same place, especially not if its a small town.

[LittleIggy]

14 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Why is the Chair of Behavioral Health at a huge hospital doing couples counseling? Is there any kind of therapy this guy doesn't do?

(No comment on the idea that Max is supposed to single-handedly fix the entire opioid epidemic.)

I mentioned in a prior episode thread that NA department heads handle a lot of cases one would think residents or attending would handle.

[ams1001]

37 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

I mentioned in a prior episode thread that NA department heads handle a lot of cases one would think residents or attending would handle.

I wouldn't think you'd go to a hospital for couples counseling in the first place. Seems like the kind of thing you'd find at a private practice in an office park somewhere.

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, meira.hand said:

to be on the safe side, that sperm banks would not leave multiple samples in the same place, especially not if its a small town.

Even if not the banks when you both realize you're from the same place and about the same age and both conceived with a sperm donor.. I know I'd probably do a test.. Even if before you got deep into backstory of each other you sleep together once its out.. I'd think that just because it would be worst case scenario.. How 9 years go by and it isn't broached by either one of them or their families is confusing 

[auntiemel]

Also, the half-sibling from sperm donor plot is a retread from Private Practice.

[preeya]

2 hours ago, auntiemel said:

Also, the half-sibling from sperm donor plot is a retread from Private Practice.

The plot regarding sperm donor mistakes and fraud has been done on a few shows; SVU is one. Then there is the joke of a show "Almost Family."

[LittleIggy]

How did the incest couple find out the identity of their newly discovered siblings in the first place? 23 and Me or Ancestry couldn’t hand out that kind of personal information. 

[auntiemel]

30 minutes ago, preeya said:

The plot regarding sperm donor mistakes and fraud has been done on a few shows; SVU is one. Then there is the joke of a show "Almost Family."

No, but I mean much more specifically than that - the exact plot of "engaged couple finds out that they are half siblings because they share the same anonymous sperm donor father and work through their feelings about it in a therapy session" was on Private Practice years ago.

[preeya]

42 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

How did the incest couple find out the identity of their newly discovered siblings in the first place? 23 and Me or Ancestry couldn’t hand out that kind of personal information. 

Actually you are correct. Don't they just tell you what type of ancestry you are from (i.e. Irish, Italian, Spanish, German, etc) not anything specific that would identify the actual DNA matches. I'm calling a foul on this plot.  😦😦

Edited February 26, 2020 by preeya

[Aliconehead]

23 minutes ago, preeya said:

Actually you are correct. Don't they just tell you what type of ancestry you are from (i.e. Irish, Italian, Spanish, German, etc) not anything specific that would identify the actual DNA matches. I'm calling a foul on this plot.  😦😦

You can opt in or out on DNA matches on both.   I have a few friends that have discovered siblings or bio parents.  My cousin found all of her dads family by his father that he had never met.  

[jrzy]

18 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I didn’t like Iggy putting all of the pressure on the woman to “get over it.” 

Exactly my thought,  they really discounted her legitimate concerns and feelings.  I wouldn't be a fan of therapy by watching how Iggy puts his personal issues into everything.

[CarpeFelis]

9 hours ago, preeya said:

I didn't catch the "mistake," however, the dictionary definition of INCONVERTIBLE is as follows:

"The first definition of inconvertible in the dictionary is incapable of being converted or changed.

I don't recall how he used it in a sentence, but we may have to give him/them the benefit of the doubt.

In the context in which he used it, it would make more sense to substitute “indisputable” or “undeniable” (incontrovertible) rather than “unchangeable” (inconvertible). Inconvertible is not a word you often (or ever, really) hear anyone use, either, outside the contexts of finance and science. I really think the writers wanted “incontrovertible” but missed the mark.

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, preeya said:

Actually you are correct. Don't they just tell you what type of ancestry you are from (i.e. Irish, Italian, Spanish, German, etc) not anything specific that would identify the actual DNA matches. I'm calling a foul on this plot.  😦😦

No, 23 and Me will tell you that you have relatives in their system, and what the relation is. If both parties opt in you can contact each other.

If your father was an anonymous sperm donor, and you met someone from the same town who's father was also an anonymous sperm donor, wouldn't you wonder about whether you were related sooner? I feel like if I didn't know one of my parents I would always be wondering that, but maybe I watched too many soaps or something.

[UNOSEZ]

12 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

? I feel like if I didn't know one of my parents I would always be wondering that,

I asked the same thing upthread.. And even if the two kids lied to themselves and pushed the idea out of their minds with love.. Wouldn't the moms at some point over the 9 years compare notes  d wonder.. Oh u went to the blah blah clinic too... Hmmmm

[txhorns79]

Hey Max, instead of shutting down the entire emergency department (and apparently cause serious disruption at your own hospital and others) by sending everyone to a one day class, how about spacing things out with who goes to training so your ED can operate, and you can get more people certified.  I know it isn't as dramatic and headline catching as your plan, but it seems a lot more reasonable. 

2 hours ago, jrzy said:

Exactly my thought,  they really discounted her legitimate concerns and feelings.  I wouldn't be a fan of therapy by watching how Iggy puts his personal issues into everything.

This made me crazy.  A bad therapist approaches his patients with an eye towards guiding them to the therapist's preferred outcome, regardless of what they are saying.  The girl raised legitimate concerns about not wanting to marry her brother, but Iggy seemed to think the happy ending for those two is a future with lots of incest, so her concerns are discounted.  It was disturbing and annoying. 

[yourmomiseasy]

Ignoring the fact that Iggy shouldn't be counselling anyone because he's the worst and the fact that going to the hospital for marriage counselling is stupid, are we supposed to consider Iggy pressuring that woman into an incestuous marriage a win?

I can't even with all the other stupidity going on in the other plots.  Was this show always this dumb or has it been extra dumb lately?  Or am I just being cranky?

[txhorns79]

4 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Was this show always this dumb or has it been extra dumb lately? 

The opioids storyline was particularly dumb, and of course it all turned out to be a personal crusade of the board lady.

One thing I did think was different was I thought Bloom's recent troubles with addiction would have made her a little more sympathetic towards her mother's alcoholism.  It was interesting the writers didn't go that way.

[yourmomiseasy]

Bloom might have been projecting.  I'd assume it is easier to be furious with her mom than deal with the anger she feels at herself over her own addiction problems.  Maybe she and her mom should book a family therapy session with Iggy.

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by yourmomiseasy

[Lovecat]

Oncology trials don’t have placebo arms; it’s unethical to give a placebo to someone with a life-threatening disease.  Do better, show.

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I thought Bloom's recent troubles with addiction would have made her a little more sympathetic towards her mother's alcoholism

I appreciate that they didn't.. At least not yet.. Her mom has caused her so much pain.. And on some level she probably feels her mom's behavior plus genetics at least put her on the path to addiction.. 

[yourmomiseasy]

Okay, so I've been thinking about this for 2 hours.  What was the actual point of the incest storyline?  What message was the show trying to convey?  What did it do to further anyone's story?  Why was it there?  I don't feel like it paralleled any of the other arcs.  Was it supposed to illustrate something about Iggy?  Was it supposed to be a social commentary?  

[bros402]

8 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

How did the incest couple find out the identity of their newly discovered siblings in the first place? 23 and Me or Ancestry couldn’t hand out that kind of personal information. 

 

8 hours ago, preeya said:

Actually you are correct. Don't they just tell you what type of ancestry you are from (i.e. Irish, Italian, Spanish, German, etc) not anything specific that would identify the actual DNA matches. I'm calling a foul on this plot.  😦😦

Incorrect - assuming they both opted in to DNA Matches (Which they most likely would) it would show that they had an approx ~1700 cM match, which is firmly in the half sibling range.

and uhhh that plot was... something - I'm pretty sure in NY it'd be at least a misdemeanor for them to get married now that they know they are siblings. Why was Iggy pushing them to marry? That was just screwed up.

Also, oncology trials don't have placebos! They are typically either "Give the drug at different doses to test what is a good dose" or "Give the drug at a dose we know works, with or without chemo/radiation/other treatment"

And in this world, are contracts magical documents that when they are ripped, the person/people on the other side of the contract know it has been ripped up, making it null and void?

Also, I thought the mom was going to say "I have cancer/I am dying."

[Dowel Jones]

17 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Anyone else wondering if Bloom’s stairwell conversation about Castro altering records was overheard?

I was expecting her to trip on a stair and go tumbling down a few flights.

On 2/25/2020 at 7:23 PM, ams1001 said:

Why is the Chair of Behavioral Health at a huge hospital doing couples counseling? 

Because he was able to convince the big health insurance companies to allow a billing code for "incest."

[UNOSEZ]

Lol at every one pointing out all the silly... I need this show to be good... I only have one other doctor/medical show now... 

Chicago Med.. Just doesn't have anyone I wanna see.. At least no one they are gonna feature heavily

I never connected with The Good Doctor

The Resident may as well ask Morris Chestnut to grow his moustache a bit more so he can really twirl it... 

Grey's I just have to watch as it's been on basically my whole life

 

[bybrandy]

The ancestry/23 and me/FTDNA tests all have family finder (or whatever name they've chosen) you opt in but most people do that shows you your DNA relatives.   You share about 25 percent of your DNA with a half sibling so not only would this half sibling show up on your list of matches they would be literally right towards the top as the results are usually sorted by closest match.  

So, so, so, so many people have discovered unknown half sibs or unknown parents.  I tested in all the ponds because I wanted to uncover some deep dark family secret.  I haven't.  My parents are exactly who my parents purport to be.   But I know people personally who have found out that their father wasn't their father due to them not having any matches at all with their father's side of the family or that their mother, father, uncle, aunt had previously unknown to them children. 

I literally encouraged somebody to test who then had to call his uncle and say, "Um, I don't know if you know this but you have a son..."  It was super awkward and I was pretty sure he was going to hate me but he has since paid for or encouraged loads of other people to test.

The siblings aren't legal siblings so I think legally they are probably fine to marry but why?  Plus the whole, "you can't have kids" was fobbed off with, "that's not the biggest issue right now."  Well, maybe not right now but it might be something you want to address before you walk down the aisle?   

The whole story was weird and disturbing and weird and disturbing.

[Johnny Dollar]

When Max was addressing the doctors who prescribe all those opioids, there seemed to be about 75 of them in that room. He said they represented one percent of the total doctors at the hospital. That would equate to a total of 7,500 doctors on staff. Where are these people since there only seem to be about seven doctors that do any work. He also said that his hospital and the other top hospitals paid over $1 billion for opioid prescriptions a year. Since the total market for the entire country is about $8 billion, that’s a lot of freaking pills. Especially considering the seven day limit that exists for acute prescriptions. Numbers matter show, especially when trying to come up with simple solutions to complex problems.

I took a business law class in college and I’m almost certain that tearing up a contract doesn’t void it, no matter have many pieces you rip it into. The other side also has a copy.

Since when does the chief of the mental health department of one of the largest public hospitals in NYC have time for one-on-one couples counseling?

Max needs to stop playing the “dead Georgia” card to get his way. And Floyd - either leave or not. Just make up your mind. I couldn’t care less at this point  

I assume that Gina Gershon would only do this show for a somewhat juicy role. Not feeling the Bloom Mama Drama yet.

How funny would it be if Helen is still wrong about Castro and she’s just being gaslighted?

[preeya]

1 hour ago, Johnny Dollar said:

How funny would it be if Helen is still wrong about Castro and she’s just being gaslighted?

This ↑.  She was too quick finding another possible kink in the Castro trials. More than likely this will also come back to bite her.

[LittleIggy]

3 hours ago, bybrandy said:

The ancestry/23 and me/FTDNA tests all have family finder (or whatever name they've chosen) you opt in but most people do that shows you your DNA relatives.   You share about 25 percent of your DNA with a half sibling so not only would this half sibling show up on your list of matches they would be literally right towards the top as the results are usually sorted by closest match.  

So, so, so, so many people have discovered unknown half sibs or unknown parents.  I tested in all the ponds because I wanted to uncover some deep dark family secret.  I haven't.  My parents are exactly who my parents purport to be.   But I know people personally who have found out that their father wasn't their father due to them not having any matches at all with their father's side of the family or that their mother, father, uncle, aunt had previously unknown to them children. 

I literally encouraged somebody to test who then had to call his uncle and say, "Um, I don't know if you know this but you have a son..."  It was super awkward and I was pretty sure he was going to hate me but he has since paid for or encouraged loads of other people to test.

The siblings aren't legal siblings so I think legally they are probably fine to marry but why?  Plus the whole, "you can't have kids" was fobbed off with, "that's not the biggest issue right now."  Well, maybe not right now but it might be something you want to address before you walk down the aisle?   

The whole story was weird and disturbing and weird and disturbing.

No, as I mentioned earlier an incestuous marriage is void ab initio, void from the start. They cannot be legally married. The secret would have to get out, but once it did the marriage would be invalid retroactive to the wedding date. 

[Dowel Jones]

10 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

When Max was addressing the doctors who prescribe all those opioids, there seemed to be about 75 of them in that room.

And every one of them, male and female, was dressed in business attire.  And there's Max, in scrubs, trying to win their respect.  Swing and a miss, strike one.

[Granny58]

On 2/26/2020 at 9:06 AM, UNOSEZ said:

Yeah seems like that would've taken some time... He felt biased to make it work.. Didn't like that... 

Never trusted or liked Castro so not surprised... 

Still wondering how they'll keep Reynolds at new Amsterdam... Cuz I don't think the actor is leaving the show... 

Those nylers really dropped the hammer when max ripped up the contract.. 

Opiod episodes are always a bit bittersweet for me... I'm happy the epidemic is being addressed.. And they are looking at all the ways the problem can be addressed and how it started...

But depressed at how different this was treated compared to the crack epidemic that went on before I was born.. How the sick ppl are treated as victims now compared to then... Even in the boss lady's actions tonight... If this was a worse show I'm  sure she  would've looked into the camera and  said.. This time its personal... In other words this time it matters... Hard not to see the racial and societal differences ( especially in the early stages of both epidemics)  and not feel a certain type of way 

I think it is because opioids are prescribed and taken in good faith from a respected and trained professional, whereas crack wasn't.  There is not sympathy for heroin users.

[Granny58]

On 2/26/2020 at 5:31 PM, LittleIggy said:

How did the incest couple find out the identity of their newly discovered siblings in the first place? 23 and Me or Ancestry couldn’t hand out that kind of personal information. 

My brother and I show as dna matches on Ancestry.