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S02.E15 Double Blind


Whimsy
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21 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Okay, so I've been thinking about this for 2 hours.  What was the actual point of the incest storyline?  What message was the show trying to convey?  What did it do to further anyone's story?  Why was it there?  I don't feel like it paralleled any of the other arcs.  Was it supposed to illustrate something about Iggy?  Was it supposed to be a social commentary?  

Yes it was.

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16 hours ago, bybrandy said:

The ancestry/23 and me/FTDNA tests all have family finder (or whatever name they've chosen) you opt in but most people do that shows you your DNA relatives.   You share about 25 percent of your DNA with a half sibling so not only would this half sibling show up on your list of matches they would be literally right towards the top as the results are usually sorted by closest match.  

So, so, so, so many people have discovered unknown half sibs or unknown parents.  I tested in all the ponds because I wanted to uncover some deep dark family secret.  I haven't.  My parents are exactly who my parents purport to be.   But I know people personally who have found out that their father wasn't their father due to them not having any matches at all with their father's side of the family or that their mother, father, uncle, aunt had previously unknown to them children. 

I literally encouraged somebody to test who then had to call his uncle and say, "Um, I don't know if you know this but you have a son..."  It was super awkward and I was pretty sure he was going to hate me but he has since paid for or encouraged loads of other people to test.

The siblings aren't legal siblings so I think legally they are probably fine to marry but why?  Plus the whole, "you can't have kids" was fobbed off with, "that's not the biggest issue right now."  Well, maybe not right now but it might be something you want to address before you walk down the aisle?   

The whole story was weird and disturbing and weird and disturbing.

I took mine to troll racist relatives, but it back fired because I'm super white.  Like basically translucent.  I did find out that my parents might be distantly related, but my mom isn't a brotherfucker, even reluctantly.  Neither of my parents will take their own DNA test so I can unravel the inbreeding mystery. 

4 hours ago, Granny58 said:

Yes it was.

Care to elaborate because I'm honestly puzzled on this one.  I'd really appreciate some light shed. 

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17 hours ago, bybrandy said:

The siblings aren't legal siblings so I think legally they are probably fine to marry but why?  Plus the whole, "you can't have kids" was fobbed off with, "that's not the biggest issue right now."  Well, maybe not right now but it might be something you want to address before you walk down the aisle?   

Here's the law in NYS:
"Persons known to be related to him or her, whether through marriage or not, as an ancestor, descendant, brother or sister of either the whole or the half blood, uncle, aunt, nephew or niece. Half-blood uncle/niece marriages are valid pursuant to a 2014 State Court decision."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_incest_in_the_United_States

It is known that they are related to each other, therefore, the marriage is illegal.

1 hour ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I took mine to troll racist relatives, but it back fired because I'm super white.  Like basically translucent.  I did find out that my parents might be distantly related, but my mom isn't a brotherfucker, even reluctantly.  Neither of my parents will take their own DNA test so I can unravel the inbreeding mystery. 

Care to elaborate because I'm honestly puzzled on this one.  I'd really appreciate some light shed. 

Get some siblings and aunts and uncles and cousins to take it

Edited by bros402
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On 2/26/2020 at 10:59 PM, Lovecat said:

Oncology trials don’t have placebo arms; it’s unethical to give a placebo to someone with a life-threatening disease.  Do better, show.

I'm a Project Manager for a large, comprehensive cancer center in the US. They actually do have placebo arms. Not always, but a lot of them do, once they get into Phase 2/3. 

They're used if there isn't a standard treatment established to give to a patient. Or, more recently a lot of multi drug trials/multi modality trials will have placebo arms to compare more than 1 treatment, against each other or against what standard treatment is already FDA approved. Language is typically: 'Pt will get Drug 1 & Drug 2, but for Drug 3, they will be randomized to Drug 3 or placebo.' OR 'Pt will be randomized to Standard Treatment or Drug 1 or Drug 1/Placebo. 

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11 hours ago, bros402 said:

Here's the law in NYS:
"Persons known to be related to him or her, whether through marriage or not, as an ancestor, descendant, brother or sister of either the whole or the half blood, uncle, aunt, nephew or niece. Half-blood uncle/niece marriages are valid pursuant to a 2014 State Court decision."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_incest_in_the_United_States

It is known that they are related to each other, therefore, the marriage is illegal.

Get some siblings and aunts and uncles and cousins to take it

Interesting that it is specifically uncle/niece that is okay.  

I think the crossover in my family tree might be a by marriage thing.  My 4th cousin on my mom's side is a distant cousin to my 3rd cousin on my dad's side.  I tried untangling it further, but it's all people I don't know and I start getting confused and it would just be a lot easier if my mom and dad both took the test so I could link to them and have side designations showing.  Also though, I'm a lot Irish and Ireland isn't that big of an island.

 

Edited by yourmomiseasy
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11 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Interesting that it is specifically uncle/niece that is okay.  

I think the crossover in my family tree might be a by marriage thing.  My 4th cousin on my mom's side is a distant cousin to my 3rd cousin on my dad's side.  I tried untangling it further, but it's all people I don't know and I start getting confused and it would just be a lot easier if my mom and dad both took the test so I could link to them and have side designations showing.  Also though, I'm a lot Irish and Ireland isn't that big of an island.

 

Half uncle/half niece is what is fine, not uncle/niece.

It sounds like you have some pedigree collapse in your tree, but hopefully not too much. Irish genealogy can be quite difficult at times - as a building that held most of the Irish genealogy records burnt down in the early 1900s

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On 2/27/2020 at 9:00 AM, Johnny Dollar said:

I took a business law class in college and I’m almost certain that tearing up a contract doesn’t void it, no matter have many pieces you rip it into. The other side also has a copy.

I think it was more of a symbolic move. The contract is still valid, but Max was saying he has every intention of breaking the contract regardless.

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On 2/27/2020 at 2:35 AM, Dowel Jones said:

Because he was able to convince the big health insurance companies to allow a billing code for "incest."

There actually is a diagnosis code for "History of consanguinity," which is more genteel doctor speak.

While the actual elements were silly, I actually found myself kind of moved by the resolution to the opioid story.  I think I'm at the point of thinking about this show like The Night Shift, which was abjectly stupid but had its heart in the right place.  

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On 2/26/2020 at 12:17 AM, CoyoteBlue said:

Eh, I wasn't nearly as wigged out about the half-sibling thing. It became taboo for two big reasons: in-breeding (but we know how to avoid that) and the need to create connections and alliances outside your birth group. They weren't raised as siblings, they aren't part of the same family and they don't need to have children together (although, honestly, with some real genetic workups, I'm sure they can be given a risk value for breeding, As long as their genes are healthy and they aren't carriers for dangerous recessives...). Just because some of their DNA is in the same formation doesn't mean anything qualitative - don't tell anyone and calm the hell down.

It is not feasible to test for every possible known genetic defect; there are thousands and it would be ridiculously expensive.  The couple, since they are half siblings share somewhere between zero and just under 50% of the same chromosomes since we know they received different sex chromosomes from the male donor. Their risks are lower than with full siblings.

They need to see a genetic counselor and also obtain records from the sperm bank to get as much of the sperm donor’s medical and family history as possible; maybe even locate him.  Then, test the couple for any obvious risks.  The risk of birth defects with non related parents is around 4%.  First cousins would have about double that risk. That still means over 90% of their kids are ok.  Also, many genetic defects lead to miscarriages, so their risk of that would also be higher.

However, Iggy surely has heard of sperm and/or egg donation which is most likely what a geneticist would advise to minimize their risk.

The big problem in the storyline, of course, was Iggy’s blatant siding with the man. Therapists are not supposed to favor one partner’s POV in situations where there is no abuse or criminality. The woman’s gut reaction was to leave the relationship after learning such disturbing information and she was entitled to that opinion and deserved to be respected and supported.

When she told Iggy that having kids wasn’t the issue, I wanted to shout at the TV that, no, having to process the information, decide that the relationship was ready to move forward and marry all within a couple of weeks was the biggest problem at present and the solution was obvious. Coercing her into marrying him on that timetable so their families wouldn’t be upset was ridiculous.  Put the dam*ed wedding on hold, see a real relationship counselor and see what happens.

Anyone know where an old guy would be taking scuba lessons in NYC in the winter where his instructor could’ve taken him down far enough to get the bends?  You can’t get the bends in the pool at the Y which is where most people take scuba class in the winter.  It is possible to get the bends in shallow water by doing multiple dives over a short period, but one would think the instructor would be aware and careful to avoid the risk. 
 

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14 hours ago, bros402 said:

Half uncle/half niece is what is fine, not uncle/niece.

It sounds like you have some pedigree collapse in your tree, but hopefully not too much. Irish genealogy can be quite difficult at times - as a building that held most of the Irish genealogy records burnt down in the early 1900s

My mistake for leaving off the half, I think faster than I an type sometimes and should have been more clear.  It is the specified genders that are interesting to me.  I'm imagining that in most cases that's not going to be a healthy relationship due to certain power dynamics (half or not) and apparently it's okay for females to be in that situation, but not males. 

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also uhhhh for a few minutes there I was thinking Iggy was going to end up being the father.

 

23 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

The Cajuns in Louisiana tell a joke that 'most Cajuns are related to their fathers but they're not sure how'.

Oh jeez yeah Louisiana genealogy can be a bush.

Just like French Canadian.

9 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

My mistake for leaving off the half, I think faster than I an type sometimes and should have been more clear.  It is the specified genders that are interesting to me.  I'm imagining that in most cases that's not going to be a healthy relationship due to certain power dynamics (half or not) and apparently it's okay for females to be in that situation, but not males. 

It is pretty interesting.

It looks like the case in NY was a woman married her US citizen half uncle in 2000, then 2 years later, ICE tried to deport her. He sued, court decided that since the NY law does not extend the "half blood" language to the part of the statute referring to "an uncle and niece or aunt and nephew" and that the authors most likely were not considering that possibility when writing it, so it was legal. It was legal in NYS to marry full blood aunt/uncle/niece/nephew until 1893

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On 2/25/2020 at 11:06 PM, LittleIggy said:

What if, instead of a cute young couple, the people seeing Iggy were an older man and a younger woman who turned out to be father (was an anonymous sperm donor while in college) and daughter?

Yeah - that was done on L & O SVU.   After the daughter had her father's baby, she went to prison and the father/grandfather wanted to adopt the baby (naturally, there were no .  INCEST pure and simple, father-daughter, mother-son, brother-sister.   As someone mentioned up thread, what was the point of this particular story arc?   I wondered as well what the take-away is supposed to be.  Unconscionable! 

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(edited)
On 2/25/2020 at 10:06 PM, LittleIggy said:

What if, instead of a cute young couple, the people seeing Iggy were an older man and a younger woman who turned out to be father (was an anonymous sperm donor while in college) and daughter? Would Iggy encourage that? I was squicked out by the whole thing. BTW, their marriage would be void ab initio.

Gina Gerson sure looked good. I dislike Bloom so much, I didn’t feel sorry for her.

Knew it was personal for Brantley.

Yay! Max’s new assistant was back.

 

The whole thing was EWWWWWW! Like, why??? And Iggy straight up taking sides was disappointing.

Bloom by far is not a favorite of mine at all (especially season 1 Bloom), but in this case, with my own parental issues, I couldn't help but feel for her.

Finally some humanity!

Yay! I like her, she's got spunk.

Edited by Kenadi O
Just trying to get the format right
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On 3/2/2020 at 4:29 PM, DarkHorse said:

I'm pretty sure Iggy's job is to remain neutral rather than virtually shame someone into doing something they are uncomfortable with especially when it's having a relationship with your brother!

I found the story line about the the drug company boring and too simple. 

I'd like to see more of the nerdy dark haired doctor with the glasses. She's the only thing worth watching in this now. 

Iggy doesn't really remain neutral.  Ever. At all. 

Which makes him a perfect fit for New Amsterdam. 

I thought the ending where the Board members daughter was the one they found dead was touching even though I think it was telegraphed pretty early on.

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As a person living with chronic pain due to a rare muscle disease who struggles to get pain relief because of the opioid crisis, I was glad that at least there was *some* mention of opioids being effective and necessary for some people. 

However, it seemed to be only a symbolic statement. The needs of the addicts which is only about 1-2% of patients with legitimate prescriptions, BTW) seemed to overrule the needs of those with chronic pain. No one, for example, offered any real alternatives to opioids, just "stop prescribing". It's not that simple - and you would think Bloom, who has spent most of the past year, struggling with horrific pain, would have spoken up about that. Instead, she now seems magically healed and only remembers her past addiction issues. Disappointing.

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Ugh.

I've been catching up on this show, because I had thought it was some hidden gem that I hadn't yet discovered.  I want to keep going, but it's really testing my paitence.

I can't say anything more really about the couples counselling that hasn't already been said.  Essentially the argument was "yeah, you're related, but you two WUV each other, so nothing else matters". Horseshit.  I hate the fact the woman was essentially looked as being weak for getting the willies about marrying a half-sibling.  In what world is this an incorrect reaction?  House M.D had a similar episode, and one character tried to tell them the whole "you WUV" each other speech, but that situation had a more realistic result-it was too much for the couple to handle.

There's been a few episodes now where things happen that make me roll my eyes.  First, there was the business with the "DNR doesn't count because I said so" with Bloom, where Stevens was made to look like the bad guy for "following the rules". I keep seeing this on medical shows, and it drives me nuts.

Then, there was the "racism causes tumors".  PUH-LEEEEEZE!

I want to keep going, because, for all his bluster, I think of Max as bascially a likeable guy, and I like Helen, but....I dunno..

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13 hours ago, StarBrand said:

Ugh.

I've been catching up on this show, because I had thought it was some hidden gem that I hadn't yet discovered.  I want to keep going, but it's really testing my paitence.

I can't say anything more really about the couples counselling that hasn't already been said.  Essentially the argument was "yeah, you're related, but you two WUV each other, so nothing else matters". Horseshit.  I hate the fact the woman was essentially looked as being weak for getting the willies about marrying a half-sibling.  In what world is this an incorrect reaction?  House M.D had a similar episode, and one character tried to tell them the whole "you WUV" each other speech, but that situation had a more realistic result-it was too much for the couple to handle.

There's been a few episodes now where things happen that make me roll my eyes.  First, there was the business with the "DNR doesn't count because I said so" with Bloom, where Stevens was made to look like the bad guy for "following the rules". I keep seeing this on medical shows, and it drives me nuts.

Then, there was the "racism causes tumors".  PUH-LEEEEEZE!

I want to keep going, because, for all his bluster, I think of Max as bascially a likeable guy, and I like Helen, but....I dunno..

continue and you can hate watch with us!

You can also enjoy my Worst Doctor Of The Week posts!

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On 3/9/2020 at 10:59 AM, SnarkySheep said:

As a person living with chronic pain due to a rare muscle disease who struggles to get pain relief because of the opioid crisis, I was glad that at least there was *some* mention of opioids being effective and necessary for some people. 

However, it seemed to be only a symbolic statement. The needs of the addicts which is only about 1-2% of patients with legitimate prescriptions, BTW) seemed to overrule the needs of those with chronic pain. No one, for example, offered any real alternatives to opioids, just "stop prescribing". It's not that simple - and you would think Bloom, who has spent most of the past year, struggling with horrific pain, would have spoken up about that. Instead, she now seems magically healed and only remembers her past addiction issues. Disappointing.

I don't think the idea was to stop all prescribing. Max specifically said that before the big push from the company, they used opiates but didn't over-use them. So stop over-prescribing, and use more appropriate medications for the people who don't need opiates.

I don't know if the contract was for a specific volume that he was going to try to buy less, or what Max really wanted to do, though, because this show definitely leaves off those kinds of details.

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