S02.E12: Guilty

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Gary takes a big step and confronts his past, while Maggie finally talks to Eric. Meanwhile, Regina's adoption news to her mother causes tension to their already complex relationship.

Airing Thursday, February 6, 2020.

 

[ams1001]

Doggie! He still exists!

[ams1001]

Maggie has several lights on in her apartment. How is it so dark?

[Lady Calypso]

I called it! I knew Chloe was going to be the heart recipient! I knew the show wasn't that clever! Seriously, it does look like the end of Eric's story...which sucks because I adore Jason Ritter, but Eric as a character definitely stopped working once they decided to introduce this BIG SECRET. It's a real shame, since they could have done so much with him and they didn't. So...I'll miss Jason Ritter, but I won't miss Eric.

Gary's story was actually well done. I was invested in it, even though I knew it would end badly. At least this is the road to healing Gary's abandonment issues, so that's good. 

The Regina stuff with her mom was well done. I appreciated seeing it, and I'm glad Regina has a better relationship with her mother.

I fast forwarded through the Rome stuff. Once I figured out that this show is 100% leading toward Rome writing a story about his life, I tapped out. I HATE meta plots like this. HATE. It's why I hate so many shows that have directors/writers/producers as characters. They ALWAYS write about their life, which is really a meta tone on the show. 

 

[KaveDweller]

So how did Eric's fiance die? Was she in two different motorcycle accidents? I could understand if Eric made that up to cover for her dying from heart failure or rejecting the transplant, but then why would her parents sue Eric? And he seems to be truly upset/guilty about causing the accident. And did they ever get married or were they engaged for six years?  I don't get this whole storyline.

I guess this is the end of Eric, because there's no real coming back from a lie like that. But it speaks to how likable Jason Ritter is, because I wanted Maggie to forgive him.

The jerk who stole Rome's idea said you can't copyright an idea, which is true. But didn't Rome actually write a full script? He must have because PJ found it and was so moved by it. If the guy really took lines directly from a script that is copyright infringement.

Note to Regina and Maggie, you don't get to compare your issues with your mothers to Gary's. Gary's mother completely abandoned him as a child. Your mothers were there and tried, but just made mistakes.

[kazza]

OK, while Delilah wasn't entire despicable this episode, on what planet is she the best mom anyone's ever known? Do they not realize the trauma she's inflicted on 2 children because she chose to have an affair with their dad's best friend, had a baby with him, and insisted on keeping the information from them for a year?

Now maybe this could be fine if Delilah were in a vacuum with Joan Crawford, but have we not met Katherine, who gave up her law firm partnership to spend more time with her family, which now includes a child her husband fathered while having an affair? 

Poor Gary, and great episode for James Roday. The hurt, disappointment, and resignation was clear in his eyes when his mom flaked out on dinner. Powerful scene when he went to see Maggie, too, to take partial ownership for what broke them up.

Good on Maggie for not opening the door (literally and figuratively) to Eric. We still don't know who he was talking to on the phone in an earlier episode about not telling Maggie his secret. Bizarre storyline. I'm not sure it's entirely over.

Overall, a good episode. Next week looks interesting as we get to see more of Sophie's acting out. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by kazza

[debraran]

5 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

So how did Eric's fiance die? Was she in two different motorcycle accidents? I could understand if Eric made that up to cover for her dying from heart failure or rejecting the transplant, but then why would her parents sue Eric? And he seems to be truly upset/guilty about causing the accident. And did they ever get married or were they engaged for six years?  I don't get this whole storyline.

I guess this is the end of Eric, because there's no real coming back from a lie like that. But it speaks to how likable Jason Ritter is, because I wanted Maggie to forgive him.

The jerk who stole Rome's idea said you can't copyright an idea, which is true. But didn't Rome actually write a full script? He must have because PJ found it and was so moved by it. If the guy really took lines directly from a script that is copyright infringement.

Note to Regina and Maggie, you don't get to compare your issues with your mothers to Gary's. Gary's mother completely abandoned him as a child. Your mothers were there and tried, but just made mistakes.

I didn't get the story line either, but never liked "Eric", not Ritter but his part was dumb for lack of a better word.  When he said "Love you" to Maggie, it was a bit over the top. He likes her, attracted to her wanting him, but I wouldn't use love yet. That was the usual, "pat Maggie on the back" moment. I was trying to piece together the accident time line too but then I decided sleep was better. ; )

Gary's mom was "real" My sister's ex husband's mom took off for another coast and left 2 sons. It happens, not everyone is cut out to be a good mother and making it a fairy tale isn't right. Gary is partly Gary because of her and her actions but he seemed to have a great dad that they might explore later.

I agree, re Regina and Maggie, not a bad mom club. I thought Regina was a bit rude to her mom at first, especially at her age, but then it worked out okay. Wait until she is a mom, hard to keep the "perfect" button straight. ; )

I didn't like the episode overall and wished I just went to bed at 10 and watched it later. I will in the future. Next episode looks a bit more exciting with Sophie acting out again, but this needs to get resolved, is she getting therapy? Will she need to almost kill herself somehow? Will she want her mommy then and all is well? (gag) I hope there are less outbursts and more conversation in the future. Deliah has to just be honest and apologize. Some things take time. She will never tell Sophie she was leaving her and Danny the day before, all planned and dad put a nail in that. She would have been pregnant if he lived or not but she was planning on leaving him. She can't sugarcoat it or blame Jon totally. This "poor Delilah" stuff is a little lame. She didn't have a one day affair, it was 2 years and she wanted to leave. The show is a soap so I don't expect deep conversations but I feel an incident will happen to make Sophie feel vulnerable but I hope I am wrong. I know writers forget things (on purpose at times) but the fact Eddie and Delilah were leaving spouses, couldn't wait, makes it probable that the affair wasn't a big thing back then, the kids would have known. Only guilt over Jon's death made a difference.

 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by debraran

[mikem]

Some luxury casting with two known actresses in (presumably) 1-episode roles:  Oscar-winner Marcia Gay Harden as Gary's mom and 2-time-Tony-winner Sutton Foster as Chloe.  Good call by Lady Calypso and anyone else who saw Chloe as the heart recipient! 

Is Gary's mom supposed to be famous or not?  She has a bunch of people lining up for her autograph but seems to think that appearing on Broadway is an unlikely dream.  Her first saying that she wanted to spend time with the son she abandoned but then blowing him off for a "better" opportunity reminded me of Will's dad on The Fresh Prince of Bel Air.   That episode may have been the first time that Will Smith showed he had real acting chops.

Eric is seen staring at a framed photo of him and Chloe on the motorcycle, presumably taken moments before the crash that killed her. Would someone frame a photo like that, particularly someone who feels guilty about taking his fiancee on that motorcycle ride to begin with? 

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Gary's story was actually well done. I was invested in it, even though I knew it would end badly. At least this is the road to healing Gary's abandonment issues, so that's good. 

I would say it ended sadly, rather than badly. Having been in a similar position once (not as massive an issue as Gary's, but I was struggling, nonetheless), the moment when I realized it was the other person's problem, not mine, was incredibly freeing. I felt so much better.

10 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

So how did Eric's fiance die? Was she in two different motorcycle accidents?

 

The jerk who stole Rome's idea said you can't copyright an idea, which is true. But didn't Rome actually write a full script? He must have because PJ found it and was so moved by it. If the guy really took lines directly from a script that is copyright infringement.

I don't know much (anything) about the survival of heart transplant patients, but I am guessing a person who needs one has other health issues, and possibly damage done to their bodies from not having a fully functioning heart for so long. Not to mention the issues that come with major surgery, having another person's organs in your body, etc.

Yes, he read the script (which people in those positions tend NOT to do without a formal arrangement for the very reason they can be sued for copyright infringement).

5 hours ago, kazza said:

OK, while Delilah wasn't entire despicable this episode, on what planet is she the best mom anyone's ever known? Do they not realize the trauma she's inflicted on 2 children because she chose to have an affair with their dad's best friend, had a baby with him, and insisted on keeping the information from them for a year?

Now maybe this could be fine if Delilah were in a vacuum with Joan Crawford, but have we not met Katherine, who gave up her law firm partnership to spend more time with her family, which now includes a child her husband fathered while having an affair? 

Poor Gary, and great episode for James Roday. The hurt, disappointment, and resignation was clear in his eyes when his mom flaked out on dinner. Powerful scene when he went to see Maggie, too, to take partial ownership for what broke them up.

Good on Maggie for not opening the door (literally and figuratively) to Eric. We still don't know who he was talking to on the phone in an earlier episode about not telling Maggie his secret. Bizarre storyline. I'm not sure it's entirely over.

Overall, a good episode. Next week looks interesting as we get to see more of Sophie's acting out. 

I may have said "bullshit!" outloud when Gary said that to Delilah. For all the same reasons.

I'm guessing Eric's story isn't over, since there was that mystery phone call, and as @KaveDweller said, we don't know what happened to Eric's fiance.

 

[Suzn]

5 hours ago, kazza said:

OK, while Delilah wasn't entire despicable this episode, on what planet is she the best mom anyone's ever known? Do they not realize the trauma she's inflicted on 2 children because she chose to have an affair with their dad's best friend, had a baby with him, and insisted on keeping the information from them for a year?

Now maybe this could be fine if Delilah were in a vacuum with Joan Crawford, but have we not met Katherine, who gave up her law firm partnership to spend more time with her family, which now includes a child her husband fathered while having an affair? 

Poor Gary, and great episode for James Roday. The hurt, disappointment, and resignation was clear in his eyes when his mom flaked out on dinner. Powerful scene when he went to see Maggie, too, to take partial ownership for what broke them up.

Good on Maggie for not opening the door (literally and figuratively) to Eric. We still don't know who he was talking to on the phone in an earlier episode about not telling Maggie his secret. Bizarre storyline. I'm not sure it's entirely over.

Overall, a good episode. Next week looks interesting as we get to see more of Sophie's acting out. 

I about gagged on hearing "best mom".  She was ready to abandon her children!  How can they gloss over that?

[ams1001]

10 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

So how did Eric's fiance die? Was she in two different motorcycle accidents? I could understand if Eric made that up to cover for her dying from heart failure or rejecting the transplant, but then why would her parents sue Eric? And he seems to be truly upset/guilty about causing the accident. And did they ever get married or were they engaged for six years?  I don't get this whole storyline.

I think...and I could be totally wrong...that the "you're getting a heart" scene was earlier and she was just sick with an [unspecified?] illness and needed a new heart (especially since neither she nor Eric appeared to have any physical injuries from a crash). The timeline was not laid out very well. The heart gave her six more years (though I have completely forgotten how long ago Maggie's brother is supposed to have died) until she died in the accident. (From Maggie's comment when she was looking at it, something in the picture indicated that that it was taken only a couple years earlier, which meant that she/'Eric' did not get the heart as a result of the accident that killed her.)

Again, I could be completely wrong.

[Bringonthedrama]

40 minutes ago, Suzn said:

I about gagged on hearing "best mom".  She was ready to abandon her children!  How can they gloss over that?

I'm under the impression that the only moms he knows are Delilah and Katherine. Prior to the affair reveal, comments he made spelled out that he didn't like/respect Katherine because in his mind she was too much of a downer adult. Delilah is his close friend who made him feel taken care of on a hard day, so it's not surprising (just sad and pathetic) that he would declare her the best mom he knows. 

Have Delilah and Eddie acknowledged to anyone that they were going to leave their families for each other? I thought the friends group only knew about the affair - not that John committing suicide nixed the lets-abandon-our-spouses-and-kids idea.

[Brookside]

Did we know Regina was raised by a white couple?  And when did her other mother come into the picture?  I am very confused.

Regina was a complete bitch to her mother, complaining about not being "understood", having the gall to criticize her mother for adopting an African American child.  Has she considered what her alternative childhood might have looked like?

[iwasish]

11 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I think...and I could be totally wrong...that the "you're getting a heart" scene was earlier and she was just sick with an [unspecified?] illness and needed a new heart (especially since neither she nor Eric appeared to have any physical injuries from a crash). The timeline was not laid out very well. The heart gave her six more years (though I have completely forgotten how long ago Maggie's brother is supposed to have died) until she died in the accident. (From Maggie's comment when she was looking at it, something in the picture indicated that that it was taken only a couple years earlier, which meant that she/'Eric' did not get the heart as a result of the accident that killed her.)

Again, I could be completely wrong.

Yes, it seemed that the night Chad died, Eric was visiting his girlfriend in the hospital.  There was a commotion in the ER and someone was wheeled down the hall on a gurney. Later Eric was talking to his  girlfriend and his phone buzzed, it was from the transplant team, girlfriend gets a heart!! 
Years later Eric is out on a day motorcycle trip with the gf, (now fiance) they crash, she dies. Her family sues him. He gets letter from   Maggie’s mom, feels her grief and because of his own grief and guilt, he couldn’t tell her that her son’s heart no longer beats. 
I don’t get how Maggie holds such a grudge against her mom for being drawn to Eric, when she is doing the exact thing and and even worse is attracted to him. Both of them were duped. Maybe she’ll forgive her now that the truth is out. 

 

 

 

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, Brookside said:

Did we know Regina was raised by a white couple?  And when did her other mother come into the picture?  I am very confused.

She's biracial; her dad is Black (and apparently left them?)

[iwasish]

4 minutes ago, Brookside said:

Did we know Regina was raised by a white couple?  And when did her other mother come into the picture?  I am very confused.

Regina was a complete bitch to her mother, complaining about not being "understood", having the gall to criticize her mother for adopting an African American child.  Has she considered what her alternative childhood might have looked like?

I wonder if Rome is going to lose interest in adopting now that he might be getting some success in the movie business. 

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Have Delilah and Eddie acknowledged to anyone that they were going to leave their families for each other? I thought the friends group only knew about the affair - not that John committing suicide nixed the lets-abandon-our-spouses-and-kids idea.

Nope - no one else knows that except Delilah and Eddie.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Brookside said:

Did we know Regina was raised by a white couple?  And when did her other mother come into the picture?  I am very confused.

Regina was a complete bitch to her mother, complaining about not being "understood", having the gall to criticize her mother for adopting an African American child.  Has she considered what her alternative childhood might have looked like?

I'm not sure I'd say Regina was complaining, as much as explaining why she and Rome were thinking about adopting a child that looked more like them (I believe after her mother threw shade at a different couple whose adoption process took 2 years because they wanted a child that looked like them).

As has already been pointed out, she's Regina's birth mother. But even if Regina had been adopted, her reality growing up was different than her mother's, and just because she doesn't want her child to have the same experience doesn't mean she's ungrateful. You can want your kids to grow up with a different experience than you did without it being a criticism of your parents.

 

[iwasish]

3 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I'm not sure I'd say Regina was complaining, as much as explaining why she and Rome were thinking about adopting a child that looked more like them (I believe after her mother threw shade at a different couple whose adoption process took 2 years because they wanted a child that looked like them).

As has already been pointed out, she's Regina's birth mother. But even if Regina had been adopted, her reality growing up was different than her mother's, and just because she doesn't want her child to have the same experience doesn't mean she's ungrateful. You can want your kids to grow up with a different experience than you did without it being a criticism of your parents.

 

I got the impression that Reginas mother was  kind of naive in her thinking that her bi-racial child wouldn’t experience any repercussions or feeling out of place in an upper middle class neighborhood. She seems like the type that wouldn’t have know how to deal with it even if she was aware, so she just closed her mind to it and acted shocked and hurt that Regina blames her for  those experiences. I also think Regina needs to get a thicker skin and not be so defensive about every thing her mother says. 

[politichick]

Even if Regina had been adopted and raised by two white people, it is their obligation to help the child understand both cultures and know people in both. Like, the mother couldn't even be bothered to find a nice black hair salon? That really annoyed me because I often seen white parents with black adoptive daughters here in Washington, DC, and too often the girls' hair looks like a fucking rat's nest. And yes, I am that bitch who will recommend my hair stylist to them because that is just so wrong.

And, it wasn't that she felt out of place in "an upper middle class neighborhood," it was the fact that she was the only child of color at her school and/or neighborhood. She had the same lifestyle, but felt out of place, which might not have so much if the father was still at home. I was once the only black child at a private school I attended. I was fine with it but I also had black friends that I  had known and am still friends with all of my life. 

Also, Regina's mother is very opinionated, so that's why she's on the defense. I was as pleasantly surprised as she was when the mother was thrilled about adoption.

Someone asked if we'd seen her before and yes, we have. I can't remember the details but it had to do with some weird uncle who did something to Regina, the mother may have denied it. He left her some money when he died but she gave it away to some charity.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, iwasish said:

Yes, it seemed that the night Chad died, Eric was visiting his girlfriend in the hospital.  There was a commotion in the ER and someone was wheeled down the hall on a gurney. Later Eric was talking to his  girlfriend and his phone buzzed, it was from the transplant team, girlfriend gets a heart!! 
Years later Eric is out on a day motorcycle trip with the gf, (now fiance) they crash, she dies. Her family sues him. He gets letter from   Maggie’s mom, feels her grief and because of his own grief and guilt, he couldn’t tell her that her son’s heart no longer beats. 
 

This is exactly my take. Two different timelines. Eric's (self-inflicted) guilt was not only that he 'killed' his girlfriend, but that he'd taken away the second chance given her by the heart transplant years earlier.

I want Eric's story to be over, but I will be surprised if it is. I wonder if he'll now go and tell the mom the truth, or if it will be left to Maggie to decide to tell her or not.

 

[iwasish]

14 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This is exactly my take. Two different timelines. Eric's (self-inflicted) guilt was not only that he 'killed' his girlfriend, but that he'd taken away the second chance given her by the heart transplant years earlier.

I want Eric's story to be over, but I will be surprised if it is. I wonder if he'll now go and tell the mom the truth, or if it will be left to Maggie to decide to tell her or not.

 

I don’t think he intended to maintain a relationship with Maggie’s mother. I think she    was the driving force there. 
 I am surprised that when the fiancée died there wasn’t anything in the papers about it. It’s the kind of story that usually makes the local news. “Accident kills recipient of heart transplant”  I’m guessing Eric and his fiancée were from the same general area as Maggie’s family ( based on her being in same hospital Chad was brought to). 
I wonder if we will see Maggie’s moms reaction to the real story. 

[LucyEth]

While Eric was telling his story to Maggie, they did show the clips in a confusing way.  I agree with some posters above.  Girlfriend got the heart from Maggie's brother years before she and Eric were engaged.   She then  got killed in the motorcycle accident.  Eric said she only got 6 years more of life with the new heart but it should have been more.  Didn't like the Eric character at all so hope he is gone.  Glad Gary got some peace and confronted his mother.   Regina and her mom are like oil and water, so glad they resolved some issues.  Still don't like Delilah, and we still have the possibility that Charlie is not Eddies kid.  

 

[iwasish]

1 minute ago, LucyEth said:

While Eric was telling his story to Maggie, they did show the clips in a confusing way.  I agree with some posters above.  Girlfriend got the heart from Maggie's brother years before she and Eric were engaged.   She then  got killed in the motorcycle accident.  Eric said she only got 6 years more of life with the new heart but it should have been more.  Didn't like the Eric character at all so hope he is gone.  Glad Gary got some peace and confronted his mother.   Regina and her mom are like oil and water, so glad they resolved some issues.  Still don't like Delilah, and we still have the possibility that Charlie is not Eddies kid.  

 

Looked like Gary and Delilah might be heading into a relationship... he seems to really idealize her as a mother ( why I have no     idea). 
Garys mother left when he was 8/9? He’s well into his thirties if not 40 plus. His mom said she had him at 18(?) so she has to be mid 50’s minimum. Is she having any success as an actress? One movie from the 90s does not a career make.. is she still chasing a dream or is this dinner she went to her “big break”?

 

[ams1001]

36 minutes ago, iwasish said:

Looked like Gary and Delilah might be heading into a relationship...

Please, no. 

Don't get any ideas, Show.

[Clanstarling]

43 minutes ago, iwasish said:

Garys mother left when he was 8/9? He’s well into his thirties if not 40 plus. His mom said she had him at 18(?) so she has to be mid 50’s minimum. Is she having any success as an actress? One movie from the 90s does not a career make.. is she still chasing a dream or is this dinner she went to her “big break”?

 

I assume that the movie was the beginning of her career, not the entirety of it. I think she probably is having some success, at least on the stage. A big name star, probably not. But a working actress, yes. Seems to me the only reason Gary obsesses about that movie isn't because she's in it, as much as it's because it's the first thing he saw her in when he was a kid, and realized she wasn't coming home.

[iwasish]

13 hours ago, debraran said:

I didn't get the story line either, but never liked "Eric", not Ritter but his part was dumb for lack of a better word.  When he said "Love you" to Maggie, it was a bit over the top. He likes her, attracted to her wanting him, but I wouldn't use love yet. That was the usual, "pat Maggie on the back" moment. I was trying to piece together the accident time line too but then I decided sleep was better. ; )

Gary's mom was "real" My sister's ex husband's mom took off for another coast and left 2 sons. It happens, not everyone is cut out to be a good mother and making it a fairy tale isn't right. Gary is partly Gary because of her and her actions but he seemed to have a great dad that they might explore later.

I agree, re Regina and Maggie, not a bad mom club. I thought Regina was a bit rude to her mom at first, especially at her age, but then it worked out okay. Wait until she is a mom, hard to keep the "perfect" button straight. ; )

I didn't like the episode overall and wished I just went to bed at 10 and watched it later. I will in the future. Next episode looks a bit more exciting with Sophie acting out again, but this needs to get resolved, is she getting therapy? Will she need to almost kill herself somehow? Will she want her mommy then and all is well? (gag) I hope there are less outbursts and more conversation in the future. Deliah has to just be honest and apologize. Some things take time. She will never tell Sophie she was leaving her and Danny the day before, all planned and dad put a nail in that. She would have been pregnant if he lived or not but she was planning on leaving him. She can't sugarcoat it or blame Jon totally. This "poor Delilah" stuff is a little lame. She didn't have a one day affair, it was 2 years and she wanted to leave. The show is a soap so I don't expect deep conversations but I feel an incident will happen to make Sophie feel vulnerable but I hope I am wrong. I know writers forget things (on purpose at times) but the fact Eddie and Delilah were leaving spouses, couldn't wait, makes it probable that the affair wasn't a big thing back then, the kids would have known. Only guilt over Jon's death made a difference.

 

 

I don’t know that Sophie’s relationship with Delilah can ever be the same. Even though Delilah told her and Danny the truth about Charlie, she hasn’t come clean ( that we know of) about planning to leave Jon and the kids to run off with Eddie.  That shoe  will hang over whatever relationship they manage to build and at some point, should it drop, they’ll have to start all over rebuIlding, if it’s even possible. Then there’s Charlie... how does she grow up not feeling that in some way the circumstances of her conception and existence aren’t a source of pain to her half brothers and sisters? Did Delilah tell Sophie and Danny that she “loved” Eddie, or that the relationship was a mistake? How does she define her relationship with Eddie to Charlie?  How can she be honest with all of them and not break some of their hearts. And Eddie? Will his motivation for telling the “truth “ find him coloring it to keep himself looking sympathetic to Charlie and Theo.  

 

[debraran]

47 minutes ago, iwasish said:

I don’t know that Sophie’s relationship with Delilah can ever be the same. Even though Delilah told her and Danny the truth about Charlie, she hasn’t come clean ( that we know of) about planning to leave Jon and the kids to run off with Eddie.  That shoe  will hang over whatever relationship they manage to build and at some point, should it drop, they’ll have to start all over rebuIlding, if it’s even possible. Then there’s Charlie... how does she grow up not feeling that in some way the circumstances of her conception and existence aren’t a source of pain to her half brothers and sisters? Did Delilah tell Sophie and Danny that she “loved” Eddie, or that the relationship was a mistake? How does she define her relationship with Eddie to Charlie?  How can she be honest with all of them and not break some of their hearts. And Eddie? Will his motivation for telling the “truth “ find him coloring it to keep himself looking sympathetic to Charlie and Theo.  

 

I hate knowing it as a viewer but others in the show don't, re the "great escape". I can't fathom Delilah who could barely brush her teeth without help, would plan this whole thing on her own though. She must have told someone else about the "stocked fridge" and laundry done etc.  I know there were 2 scenes of their plan, one I posted here long ago of the restaurant and one phone call where Eddie could barely stand to be with Kathryn and her "Indian food" take out. They had to be with each other. (gag worthy at best) I understand people change, passion ebbs, but that wasn't the case here, not yet. If Jon didn't jump and he knew of their affair, she would have left. Ashley knew too. I found it odd she was leaving the kids with him, but I guess asking him to leave for her affair was a bit much. For the writers to expect you to forget it, well, it's a show but I wont.  I want a full circle and for the group to stop acting like she had a slight transgression. Jon's hockey sweater hanging over the babies crib but no pictures of him shown any more around the home?  I think they want the show to move on so he was erased but he was an important part of their lives.

Eddie, like a lot of guys, gets the easier path, but one day Theo will understand more fully what his dad did. I also see more disappointment with Dakota and his sister coming. Eddie seems very weak overall. He doesn't have Jon or AA or any support system other than Rome and Gary and they have their own issues.

Edited February 8, 2020 by debraran

[tennisgurl]

I am trying to piece together the sequence of events with Eric and his fiance, its way more confusing than it probably needs to be. So his fiance needed a new heart, she got Maggie's brothers heart right after he died, and then she died in the motorcycle accident? So now her parents are trying to sue Eric (which seems like it wont go very far as it sounds like a very obvious accident) and he got the letter from Maggie's mom and, because people in this show react to things in utterly bizarre ways, he decided to start hanging out with her and telling her how he has her dead sons heart, and then kept it up with Maggie. That is just...so weird. I love Jason Ritter and he certainly makes me feel more sympathy for Eric than I would if someone else was playing him, but I cant imagine Maggie really forgiving him for this lie. He wasnt being intentionally malicious or anything, like he wasnt a conman or anything, but its still a really messed up thing to do, basically lying and manipulating people so that you feel better.

The Gary story was actually pretty good, I really felt for him, and it feels like his story is actually gaining momentum. He managed to get some closure with his mom and understand her a bit more, and hopefully that helps me understand himself and his clingy and defensive tendencies. While she probably does feel bad about leaving Gary, her excuse that she didnt think that Gary needed her because...she saw him smile once, was so transparently a lame excuse. I mean, if she just didnt want to be a mom to a kid and be tied down, she could have at least looked him up when he got older, but if Gary hadn't gone to see her, presumably they never would have seen each other again.

Delilah, while decently likable this episode, is so not the amazing mom they are trying to build her up as, its hysterical. This is a woman who is so fragile she needs people to help to just run errands, wanted to lie to her children about Charlies father to cover up her own affair, and considered fleeing the country with them to keep Charlie from her father. Not exactly World Best Mom. 

It seemed to be going so well with Regina and her mom, so of course drama had to flare up. I admit I did feel for both of them, although its clear that Regina's mom made some mistakes, even if they were well intentioned. From her moms perspective, Regina telling her mom that she wants a child to be a part of her and Romes community, probably reads as a rejection, a big "you'll never really be a part of this child's world" even if thats not really what Regina meant, while Regina is still dealing with how isolated she was as a biracial girl in a mostly white space, and having a family that apparently refused to give her the support she needed and acknowledge the unique struggles she had. They are also both a bit quick to get mad at each other and rather defensive in general. Also, there was that whole thing with the uncle who molested both of them...but that doesent really get brought up anymore, so never mind I guess. 

So will Romes story feature every single sordid detail of this whole mess, including baby Charlie and her paternity, Johns 9/11 issues, TJs crazy family that refuse to take money to hide their not actual secrets even if it could send him to college, etc.?

[KaveDweller]

 

6 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I think...and I could be totally wrong...that the "you're getting a heart" scene was earlier and she was just sick with an [unspecified?] illness and needed a new heart (especially since neither she nor Eric appeared to have any physical injuries from a crash). The timeline was not laid out very well. The heart gave her six more years (though I have completely forgotten how long ago Maggie's brother is supposed to have died) until she died in the accident. (From Maggie's comment when she was looking at it, something in the picture indicated that that it was taken only a couple years earlier, which meant that she/'Eric' did not get the heart as a result of the accident that killed her.)

Again, I could be completely wrong.

I think you are right. I actually think I dreamt about this show last night, because I woke up this morning thinking, "Oh, that hospital scene was a flashback within a flashback. It all makes sense now." 

I normally have better dreams.

5 hours ago, izabella said:

Nope - no one else knows that except Delilah and Eddie.

I think Eddie told Rome and Gary that he was planning to leave Katharine for Delilah, just not that they literally had suitcases packed. He had been telling them even before Jon died about how he was going to leave Katharine.

I'm not really sure there is value in telling anyone more at this point. They know they cheated, they know about Charlie. It doesn't matter at this point what they were going to do, since they are no longer planning to do it. It's just going to cause more pain. Telling about Charlie was needed because she is a person who deserves to know who her family was, and Eddie deserves to know his kid, and all that.

Plus, I never got the impression they were going to run away and never see their kids again. They were being assholes, but neither of them are that much of an asshole. They care about their kids, even if they aren't perfect parents.

[maggiemae]

I am so confused - wouldn't a parent know who her deceased son gave his heart to? (Chad to Chloe, not Eric.)

[ams1001]

8 minutes ago, maggiemae said:

I am so confused - wouldn't a parent know who her deceased son gave his heart to? (Chad to Chloe, not Eric.)

As far as I understand it, the donor's family would not know who received any organs, and the recipient would not know who the donor was (unless it was a directed donation to a specific person, which I would assume is not very common with an accidental death situation). If either side wants to contact the other later, they do it through the transplant organization, so both sides have to agree before any information is released.

[iwasish]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

As far as I understand it, the donor's family would not know who received any organs, and the recipient would not know who the donor was (unless it was a directed donation to a specific person, which I would assume is not very common with an accidental death situation). If either side wants to contact the other later, they do it through the transplant organization, so both sides have to agree before any information is released.

I think Eric said the mother’s letter was sent to his address  by the transplant organization. Maggies mom didn’t know who got the heart, male or female. My thought is that Eric reached out to her, maybe intending to tell her the truth, but couldn’t and it became a huge clusterfuck. 
 

I just rewatched the episode. Eric got Maggie’s moms  letter forwarded by the transplant org. They didn’t know Chloe was dead. He was overwhelmed by her moms words, and her information that her daughter was ill. He thought he would send one letter that would give her solace, but he just got in deeper. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by iwasish

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The biggest bummer about this episode is knowing that we won't get any more Jason Ritter. I know what his character did was bad, but the actor is so great and I've really enjoyed having him on the show.

Even though that was the only major plot that moved forward this week, I still liked the resolution we got with some of the other relationships. Gary's mommy issues have been a long time coming. Childhood trauma can affect you in so many ways. Even if you logically know as an adult that it was not your fault that your mom left, that doesn't erase the feeling of abandonment or fill the hole that it created. He really needed to have that conversation with her to move past it.

Similarly, Regina knows that her mom did the best she could. That doesn't make the things she dealt with as a child any less difficult. Your mom can love you and have the best intentions, but that doesn't change feeling like you don't belong or the childhood struggle to fit in and find your identity. But knowing why her mom made some of those choices has helped Regina understand her better and I think it eased some of the resentment she has felt about it.

Rome's script getting stolen and sold was a timely storyline considering the recent controversy about American Dirt and My Dark Vanessa. Rome admitting that he was depressed and suicidal to someone outside his circle was a big step for him.

I had to pause the episode to get past my laughing fit when Gary said that Delilah is the best mom he knows. I know he doesn't like Katherine but wow.

21 hours ago, mikem said:

Is Gary's mom supposed to be famous or not?  She has a bunch of people lining up for her autograph but seems to think that appearing on Broadway is an unlikely dream. 

There are always people at the stage door who want to get autographs and meet the cast, no matter how minor the theater/play/cast may be. I think it's also more common for people to do that in New York because you could be getting the autograph of someone who will be famous later.

15 hours ago, politichick said:

Someone asked if we'd seen her before and yes, we have. I can't remember the details but it had to do with some weird uncle who did something to Regina, the mother may have denied it. He left her some money when he died but she gave it away to some charity.

This is the fourth episode Gina's mom has been in. Last season she was poking around the restaurant while it was under construction and making changes without consulting with Gina (as in telling the workers to do different things on the spot) in addition to the episode where Regina found out that the money her mom gave her for the restaurant actually came from the uncle who molested her.

14 hours ago, iwasish said:

Garys mother left when he was 8/9? He’s well into his thirties if not 40 plus. His mom said she had him at 18(?) so she has to be mid 50’s minimum. Is she having any success as an actress? One movie from the 90s does not a career make.. is she still chasing a dream or is this dinner she went to her “big break”?

Gary said in this episode that he was 7 when she left. For some people in the arts, being able to work is considered successful. Not everyone who acts will become a star on Broadway or in Hollywood. The fact that his mom is in her 50s and still a working actress is pretty good (parts for women tend to dry up once they're past 30).

[Aileen]

22 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I would say it ended sadly, rather than badly. Having been in a similar position once (not as massive an issue as Gary's, but I was struggling, nonetheless), the moment when I realized it was the other person's problem, not mine, was incredibly freeing. I felt so much better.

I don't know much (anything) about the survival of heart transplant patients, but I am guessing a person who needs one has other health issues, and possibly damage done to their bodies from not having a fully functioning heart for so long. Not to mention the issues that come with major surgery, having another person's organs in your body, etc.

Yes, he read the script (which people in those positions tend NOT to do without a formal arrangement for the very reason they can be sued for copyright infringement).

I may have said "bullshit!" outloud when Gary said that to Delilah. For all the same reasons.

I'm guessing Eric's story isn't over, since there was that mystery phone call, and as @KaveDweller said, we don't know what happened to Eric's fiance.

 

Yes we do...the motorcycle crash was 6 years after the heart transplant and what caused her death.

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Similarly, Regina knows that her mom did the best she could. That doesn't make the things she dealt with as a child any less difficult. Your mom can love you and have the best intentions, but that doesn't change feeling like you don't belong or the childhood struggle to fit in and find your identity.

This.

I did have one question. I haven't ever had a registry, for my wedding or my kids. It seemed to me that Regina's mom actually ended up buying the clothes (she inserted her credit card into the thingee.) Or is that the way putting things on a registry works? The only thing I've ever seen (also on TV) is people going around scanning the tags of items they want.

 

1 hour ago, Aileen said:

Yes we do...the motorcycle crash was 6 years after the heart transplant and what caused her death.

Yeah, after reading everyone else's take, I agree that's the likely outcome of events. But we still don't know who the mystery person on the phone was - so I'm guessing we still have a little Eric plot to go.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Clanstarling

[ams1001]

49 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

This.

I did have one question. I haven't ever had a registry, for my wedding or my kids. It seemed to me that Regina's mom actually ended up buying the clothes (she inserted her credit card into the thingee.) Or is that the way putting things on a registry works? The only thing I've ever seen (also on TV) is people going around scanning the tags of items they want.

No, a registry is meant for other people to easily be able to buy the things you want/need (usually in conjunction with a baby shower or whatever). You set it up, scan the items you would like, and when your friends/family buy those items through the registry (generally available on the store's website or through a computer in the store) it gets updated so later shoppers can see what was already bought and what's left. So you don't get, say, three high chairs and no stroller. It's basically a wish list that the store keeps track of for you. Her mom was just...shopping. (And buying baby clothes when you don't even know when/if you're getting a kid or how old it will be is...pretty dumb and quite likely a complete waste of money, if she bought, for instance, infant clothes and they wind up with a six-month-old.)

(A lot of stores will also give the registry-owner a discount on items that weren't purchased if they buy them later.)

Edited February 8, 2020 by ams1001

[debraran]

2 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

No, a registry is meant for other people to easily be able to buy the things you want/need (usually in conjunction with a baby shower or whatever). You set it up, scan the items you would like, and when your friends/family buy those items through the registry (generally available on the store's website or through a computer in the store) it gets updated so later shoppers can see what was already bought and what's left. So you don't get, say, three high chairs and no stroller. It's basically a wish list that the store keeps track of for you. Her mom was just...shopping. (And buying baby clothes when you don't even know when/if you're getting a kid or how old it will be is...pretty dumb and quite likely a complete waste of money, if she bought, for instance, infant clothes and they wind up with a six-month-old.)

(A lot of stores will also give the registry-owner a discount on items that weren't purchased if they buy them later.)

yes, that whole scene was silly, re the clothes. Excited is one thing but they hadn't even been approved yet and didn't know age. I guess they can be donated.

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, ams1001 said:

No, a registry is meant for other people to easily be able to buy the things you want/need (usually in conjunction with a baby shower or whatever). You set it up, scan the items you would like, and when your friends/family buy those items through the registry (generally available on the store's website or through a computer in the store) it gets updated so later shoppers can see what was already bought and what's left. So you don't get, say, three high chairs and no stroller. It's basically a wish list that the store keeps track of for you. Her mom was just...shopping. (And buying baby clothes when you don't even know when/if you're getting a kid or how old it will be is...pretty dumb and quite likely a complete waste of money, if she bought, for instance, infant clothes and they wind up with a six-month-old.)

(A lot of stores will also give the registry-owner a discount on items that weren't purchased if they buy them later.)

So here's why I got confused about the registry vs buying. I just rewatched to figure out what I was trying to say in my poorly worded post.

So in the first scene in the baby store, after Regina's mom wants to buy something, Regina says that they shouldn't get ahead of themselves, after which her mother tells the clerk "We would like to start a registry - and we need everything." Then in the next scene at the store, after the mother gets offended by Regina's discussion about fitting in, she huffily buys the clothes. No further mention of registry.

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

So here's why I got confused about the registry vs buying. I just rewatched to figure out what I was trying to say in my poorly worded post.

So in the first scene in the baby store, after Regina's mom wants to buy something, Regina says that they shouldn't get ahead of themselves, after which her mother tells the clerk "We would like to start a registry - and we need everything." Then in the next scene at the store, after the mother gets offended by Regina's discussion about fitting in, she huffily buys the clothes. No further mention of registry.

They could have done a registry (off camera), and her mom started her off by buying some things on it. Or done the registry and then her mom picked out additional things to buy.

Or Regina talked her into not doing the registry, because they don't really know what they need yet, so her mom settled for just buying clothes? The whole thing was weird, maybe part of it was cut for time.

[geauxaway]

This whole episode was choppy and confusing to me.   The Eric story was so anticlimactic.  I would rather he had been the one who caused the car accident with Chad or something like that.  Something darker.  This was like that’s it?  Or, as many are saying maybe that isn’t it.   Either way, I shouldn’t have had to come here to fully understand the timeline.  I also couldn’t care less about Sutton Fosters character and that she died.  No emotional ties whatsoever to a character that was in about 5 minutes worth of scenes. 
 

It sucks because I was finally alert and invested in the show after the non scar reveal.  The momentum from that is now gone.  
 

Where’s Ashley?  Where’s PJ?  Where’s Barbara?    I feel like this show is all over the place and nothing flows.

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, geauxaway said:

Where’s Ashley?  Where’s PJ?  Where’s Barbara?    I feel like this show is all over the place and nothing flows.

They have disappeared into the "We moved onto different plots so no room for them" vortex! Its especially noticeable with PJ, who was the one who inspired Rome and Regina to want to adopt in the first place, and was the first person to read Romes script and say how good it was, and still clearly had a lot of issues to sort out with his depression and dysfunctional family, and seemed to have some sort of thing with Sophie starting (and they arent siblings now, so its all good!) out, but now its like he was never here at all. 

As annoying as it is to have Regina being another TV character who says they dont want kids but totally changes their mind and wants them, I do like that they are going with adoption not because they cant have bio kids, but just because they want to adopt. Normally when you see adoption stories on TV, its either someone adopting a kid they bond with, or people only adopting when they cant conceive a bio child, like adoption is always a last resort, so I do like that they are choosing to adopt a child just because they want to, not because they "have" to. 

[Court]

On 2/7/2020 at 10:55 AM, ams1001 said:

I think...and I could be totally wrong...that the "you're getting a heart" scene was earlier and she was just sick with an [unspecified?] illness and needed a new heart (especially since neither she nor Eric appeared to have any physical injuries from a crash). The timeline was not laid out very well. The heart gave her six more years (though I have completely forgotten how long ago Maggie's brother is supposed to have died) until she died in the accident. (From Maggie's comment when she was looking at it, something in the picture indicated that that it was taken only a couple years earlier, which meant that she/'Eric' did not get the heart as a result of the accident that killed her.)

Again, I could be completely wrong.

This is how I read it. Chloe got Eric's heart. She lived 6 more years and then died in the accident. 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Court

[alexvillage]

On 2/7/2020 at 10:14 PM, maggiemae said:

I am so confused - wouldn't a parent know who her deceased son gave his heart to? (Chad to Chloe, not Eric.)

No. Once you agree to donate organs or tissue, you don't follow the process anymore. weeks after that, you receive a letter letting you know how many people you helped and, in some cases, the gender/age. I don't know if that's the same everywhere but that's my experience.

 

I am so annoyed by Gary's brooding that I didn't really pay attention to his story. I thought it was boring, like the whole episode, really.

The writers still make little effort to put these people in the planet earth, in a place where we all have obligations and cannot just leave because someone is having a childish reaction and watching a freaking movie. What did they expect him to do after "the scene"? Then Regina, who is supposed to be the chef of a still struggling restaurant, simply stop everything to run to Gary's house? 

And what is it with shows that love the overdramatic exits like Maggie's? Why not just confront Eric about the photo? Ask what happened. I find it so unrealistic. I might be weird but I would want to know, maybe scream at someone, but not leave like that. I know it is because they have to add the apology scene - which was ridiculous, do people really tell private facts of their lives through a door in an apartment building? - but it is such a cliche and lazy writing.

[nexxie]

Weird - I find these people so annoying, but really enjoy the show!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, alexvillage said:

And what is it with shows that love the overdramatic exits like Maggie's? Why not just confront Eric about the photo? Ask what happened. I find it so unrealistic. I might be weird but I would want to know, maybe scream at someone, but not leave like that.

Even if I were absolutely furious and hurt and betrayed, you would not be able to get my ass to leave until I got an explanation for the long term deceit and lies!

[TOWTooMuchTV]

OK so I see I'm not alone in being confused about the logistics of the Eric/Chloe/Chad heart story but what confuses me is location, not timing. I get that Chloe got Chad's heart when he died in the accident and then lived six more years before dying in the motorcycle accident in Martha's Vineyard. But where does/did everyone live? Chloe and Eric presumably lived in Boston since she owned the music store that Maggie and Gary can drop in on. But didn't Maggie move to Boston from somewhere else at the beginning of the series, and she had been living with Chad in (assume) their family home before that? And Maggie's mom was considering moving to Boston from wherever she lives. So Chad should have died wherever that was, and not been in the same Boston hospital as Chloe. Or did I miss something?

[iwasish]

23 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

They have disappeared into the "We moved onto different plots so no room for them" vortex! Its especially noticeable with PJ, who was the one who inspired Rome and Regina to want to adopt in the first place, and was the first person to read Romes script and say how good it was, and still clearly had a lot of issues to sort out with his depression and dysfunctional family, and seemed to have some sort of thing with Sophie starting (and they arent siblings now, so its all good!) out, but now its like he was never here at all. 

As annoying as it is to have Regina being another TV character who says they dont want kids but totally changes their mind and wants them, I do like that they are going with adoption not because they cant have bio kids, but just because they want to adopt. Normally when you see adoption stories on TV, its either someone adopting a kid they bond with, or people only adopting when they cant conceive a bio child, like adoption is always a last resort, so I do like that they are choosing to adopt a child just because they want to, not because they "have" to. 

If TV shows have taught us anything.... when couples plan to adopt and may even have received their adopted child... SURPRISE!!! they find out they’re PREGNANT!!!

2 hours ago, TOWTooMuchTV said:

OK so I see I'm not alone in being confused about the logistics of the Eric/Chloe/Chad heart story but what confuses me is location, not timing. I get that Chloe got Chad's heart when he died in the accident and then lived six more years before dying in the motorcycle accident in Martha's Vineyard. But where does/did everyone live? Chloe and Eric presumably lived in Boston since she owned the music store that Maggie and Gary can drop in on. But didn't Maggie move to Boston from somewhere else at the beginning of the series, and she had been living with Chad in (assume) their family home before that? And Maggie's mom was considering moving to Boston from wherever she lives. So Chad should have died wherever that was, and not been in the same Boston hospital as Chloe. Or did I miss something?

Chad may not have died in the same hospital Eric and Chloe were in when Eric got the text  about a heart being available.. there is a transport team that will take the organs being donated and deliver them.  I remember scenes in other shows where they pack the organs in a cooler and take them via airplane, helicopter or ambulance to the location where the transplant will take place. They really haven’t given a clear outline of what exactly happened. 

[TOWTooMuchTV]

26 minutes ago, iwasish said:

Chad may not have died in the same hospital Eric and Chloe were in when Eric got the text  about a heart being available.. 

I thought they showed Eric walking by when Maggie/Chad's mom was talking to the ER doctor, but maybe it was just the next scene and jumped from one hospital to another. It was confusing and full disclosure, I wasn't paying the closest of attention...that would make sense though. 

[KaveDweller]

 

2 hours ago, iwasish said:

Chad may not have died in the same hospital Eric and Chloe were in when Eric got the text  about a heart being available.. there is a transport team that will take the organs being donated and deliver them.  I remember scenes in other shows where they pack the organs in a cooler and take them via airplane, helicopter or ambulance to the location where the transplant will take place. They really haven’t given a clear outline of what exactly happened. 

But they specifically had Eric say, he didn't know until later that Maggie's mom was also at the hospital that night. And we saw him noticing her mom being told the son had died.

Eric and Chloe could have been at a hospital outside of Boston because it specialized in whatever kind of disease Chloe had. Seems like a pretty big coincidence though.