S06.E12: The Tank

[OtterMommy]

Quote

Grace's loyalties are tested as she and Frankie face the Sharks.  Robert scrambles to recoup the money he donated.  Bud meets his long-lost cousin.

Drop Date: 01/15/2020

[Harvey]

For someone who kept up an affair for 20+ years, Robert sure has a problem keeping secrets this season.

 

[CaliCheeseSucks]

I did not buy for a second that Grace would tank Mark Cuban's investment offer.

[shapeshifter]

55 minutes ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

I did not buy for a second that Grace would tank Mark Cuban's investment offer.

I thought it was completely in-character for Grace to play the dutiful wife and quash her ticket to autonomy —both physical and financial. I hated that she did it, but anything else would have been equally painful emotionally for her —a classic “between a rock and a hard place” scenario.
Anyway, if we consider that taking Mark Cuban’s money would also be losing autonomy, either choice leaves Grace in a position of having to serve a man. 

[MissLucas]

Meh, I hate sitcom plots that hinge on someone keeping a secret with no other logic than plot contrivance to create drama. Grace should have hashed it out with Frankie before and I thought it was OOC for her not to do that. Also OOC not to think of the obvious solution. Tell Nick that yes, I'm going to turn down Cuban for you even if he is the only shark taking the bait - but in that case you are going to fund Rise Up. Only fair if he's going to ask for such a huge sacrifice without giving any further info on the bad blood between him and Cuban.

That said I thought Frankie's reaction over the top. They are still business partners and friends after all and it's not as if she has never screwed up in their relationship. 

Was it wrong for Nick to ask that particular thing of Grace? Probably, but you can't deny that few husbands would have been as accepting of Frankie as Nick has. I don't like the show throwing his character under the bus to celebrate female friendship.

 

[shapeshifter]

15 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Meh, I hate sitcom plots that hinge on someone keeping a secret with no other logic than plot contrivance to create drama. Grace should have hashed it out with Frankie before and I thought it was OOC for her not to do that. Also OOC not to think of the obvious solution. Tell Nick that yes, I'm going to turn down Cuban for you even if he is the only shark taking the bait - but in that case you are going to fund Rise Up. Only fair if he's going to ask for such a huge sacrifice without giving any further info on the bad blood between him and Cuban.

That said I thought Frankie's reaction over the top. They are still business partners and friends after all and it's not as if she has never screwed up in their relationship. 

Was it wrong for Nick to ask that particular thing of Grace? Probably, but you can't deny that few husbands would have been as accepting of Frankie as Nick has. I don't like the show throwing his character under the bus to celebrate female friendship.

 

I totally agree and very good points except, perhaps, that Frankie's reaction is only OTT for a normal person. For Frankie, "Over The Top" is normal.

[possibilities]

Grace should have told Frankie what was going on. She and Nick also should have had a conversation where she stopped allowing him to frame it as Grace choosing Frankie over him. It's easy for him to say to forget an investment. He's got more money than he needs. He was asking Grace to give up her own business. Frankie wasn't the issue here at all.

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Grace should have told Frankie what was going on. She and Nick also should have had a conversation where she stopped allowing him to frame it as Grace choosing Frankie over him.

Wasn't she, though? Grace cancelled a trip they have been planning for months just to spend Frankie's birthday with her, when Frankie just had a brand new relationship. She could have spent her special day with her man... Grace definitely was putting Frankie first and in a marriage that is not acceptable. 

[SoMuchTV]

Is there some inside joke I’m missing, between Jane Fonda and Mark Cuban? Because I feel like there’s something I’m not getting. 

[sistermagpie]

On 1/18/2020 at 7:44 AM, MissLucas said:

Tell Nick that yes, I'm going to turn down Cuban for you even if he is the only shark taking the bait - but in that case you are going to fund Rise Up. Only fair if he's going to ask for such a huge sacrifice without giving any further info on the bad blood between him and Cuban.

But then her husband would be funding their business, which I certainly wouldn't want if I were her. Cuban funding her would be a straight financial deal that would keep her independent as far as I can see.

13 hours ago, Harvey said:

Wasn't she, though? Grace cancelled a trip they have been planning for months just to spend Frankie's birthday with her, when Frankie just had a brand new relationship. She could have spent her special day with her man... Grace definitely was putting Frankie first and in a marriage that is not acceptable. 

That to me was the unbelievable thing--that Grace would somehow schedule a trip forgetting that it was the weekend of Frankie's birthday. It's not like it came up at the last minute. She'd just not choose that weekend. What else does Grace have to think about other than Frankie and Nick?

But that's why it would make far more sense for him to be complaining about her not going on the trip than making Frankie an excuse for him to ask for Grace to give up funding for a business venture--on TV no less--without even telling her why. That's a lot bigger than him dealing with Frankie being there when he comes home. Or even cancelling a trip that can be rescheduled, really. But at least the trip literally was about Frankie vs. Nick.

The thing is, it's not that Nick is a bad guy. It's just that it's actually Frankie who's the best thing to happen to Grace, not Nick.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by sistermagpie

[Eeksquire]

I cringed through this entire episode. I don't know why the secondhand embarrassment was so striking to me here, but every time they cut to Shark Tank, I wanted to hide under the couch.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

The thing is, it's not that Nick is a bad guy. It's just that it's actually Frankie who's the best thing to happen to Grace, not Nick.

This^ may be the most insightful comment I've read on any social media about any topic.

@sistermagpie can I hire you to help me make  decisions?

Edited January 20, 2020 by shapeshifter

[sistermagpie]

29 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

This^ may be the most insightful comment I've read on any social media about any topic.

@sistermagpie can I hire you to help me make  decisions?

LOL! Thanks you! You would come to regret that request if I said yes!

[853fisher]

I’m willing to ignore that the logical reply to “Cuban once did something terrible to me” would be “what did he do?”  I’m able to handwave Grace’s failure to set a failsafe, like the clever “if Cuban is the last one, I’ll decline, but then you fund the product, Nick” suggested above.  She seemed to really believe it was such a sure thing that she’d have no problem getting others on the hook. 
 

But it didn’t ring true that highly image-conscious Grace would’ve acted like such a jerk on national TV.  There are plenty of ways she could’ve iced Cuban out without behaving the way she did.  She was being ridiculous within seconds of entering the room, before it was clear that he would be the last man standing.  I don’t watch this show for gritty realism, and maybe I’m overthinking it because I really enjoy the British “Shark Tank” and was really looking forward to this plot, but it just didn’t make any sense.

 

I can think of several other ways to handle this scenario, with equally high stakes and even the same result.  This was just too cartoonish for me, and it undercut what we know about Grace.  She has always been her own woman at heart, and I think receiving an investment on a national stage would have been as much for her about reputation as money.  I can buy that she would decline to do business with Cuban at Nick's request, but not that she'd leave both the investment and her dignity behind by acting so irrationally.

[Harvey]

5 minutes ago, 853fisher said:

 

But it didn’t ring true that highly image-conscious Grace would’ve acted like such a jerk on national TV.  There are plenty of ways she could’ve iced Cuban out without behaving the way she did.  She was being ridiculous within seconds of entering the room, before it was clear that he would be the last man standing.  I don’t watch this show for gritty realism, and maybe I’m overthinking it because I really enjoy the British “Shark Tank” and was really looking forward to this plot, but it just didn’t make any sense.

 

I don't know, I feel like she was nervous because of keeping a secret from Frankie and that made her loose her cool a bit. Besides anyone would be nerve-wracked when being in front of the cameras to be on TV. I can't blame her for being out of her element.

[853fisher]

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

I don't know, I feel like she was nervous because of keeping a secret from Frankie and that made her loose her cool a bit. Besides anyone would be nerve-wracked when being in front of the cameras to be on TV. I can't blame her for being out of her element.

Hmmmm, I can see that. 🙂 I think the execution of it just came off silly and over-the-top for me.  I mean, within seconds of starting the Q&A, it was off to the races.  It just didn't scan for me somehow.  On the spectrum between "cool as a cucumber" and "off the rails," things maybe went a bit far to the latter side for me too quickly, for someone who'd certainly pitched before.  But you bring up a great point about the pressure of keeping a secret from Frankie.

[DrSparkles]

Damn Jane has awesome wigs.

[Oldernowiser]

38 minutes ago, DrSparkles said:

Damn Jane has awesome wigs.

So does Lily!

[wendyg]

On 1/20/2020 at 1:40 AM, Eeksquire said:

I cringed through this entire episode. I don't know why the secondhand embarrassment was so striking to me here, but every time they cut to Shark Tank, I wanted to hide under the couch.

The Robert/Sol stuff was actually worse, for me.

[Empress1]

On 1/19/2020 at 8:40 PM, Eeksquire said:

I cringed through this entire episode. I don't know why the secondhand embarrassment was so striking to me here, but every time they cut to Shark Tank, I wanted to hide under the couch.

Me too, except in the first few minutes when Grace was making the pitch and Frankie was demonstrating the product. I found Frankie really charming when she was demonstrating and I could buy that the sharks would laugh and be charmed too. I also found it very touching that Grace kind of faltered when she said she was 80 - I thought it was very realistic that she would hesitate to announce her age on TV.

Rohan Oza is FINE.

[iMonrey]

I agree that Nick should fund the Rise Up if he's going to force Grace to turn down Mark Cuban's offer. I get that she didn't want to ask her husband for the money but now he just owes her. 

Again, I don't know why $20K should be such a huge deal to Robert and Sol. Peter actually said they couldn't afford the cruise because Robert spent the $20K on the theater. Couldn't afford it?? It would be one thing if it's just Sol being mad at Robert for spending that kind of money without discussing it with him, but to say they actually can't afford to lose $20K? Aren't they filthy rich divorce attorneys? Didn't they take Frankie's last boyfriend to the cleaners? They were even able to afford a beach house off that one client. What kind of lousy financial planner and/or accountant do they have if a mere $20K is that crucial to their finances?

The Bud thing was kind of dumb. Having an unknown, distant relative turn up needing a kidney is a real cliche, and there's no way a bunch of random park people would gather round to hear Bud regale them with his heroism. 

[possibilities]

How much does a cruise cost?

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

How much does a cruise cost?

My elderly uncle and his wife with high school educations are on fixed incomes in Florida; they work as telemarketers for those "as seen on TV" products to be able to afford to take cruises. Surely 2 retired lawyers could go on cruises and also subsidize Robert's theater group with ease. 
Maybe the writers are making a point about the increase of cost of living in LA, and especially how it affects seniors whose savings for retirement were based on budgets of yore?

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by shapeshifter

[kaygeeret]

Am I correct in the belief that this is the last season and this was the last episode?

If so that was one weird episode leaving lots of questions like:  Is Grace staying with hubby/

Perhaps I am being a tad too literal wanting things, if not wrapped up in a little bow, at least ended with a sense of the future entails. 

 

[possibilities]

I think there's another season.

 

[kaygeeret]

Thanks possibilities, that makes more sense.

[Oldernowiser]

On 1/30/2020 at 1:52 PM, possibilities said:

How much does a cruise cost?

You can spend tens of thousands, depending on how “super luxury deluxe” the cruise is, how long it is and which cruise line and which accommodations you choose. I had uncles who did these high end cruises frequently.

Since they were talking Europe and the Greek Isles and the upscale cruise line, they could easily spend ten thousand not including any dining or hotel stays in port.

This show does weird things with money quite often, but this one didn’t seem as far off as many of them.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Oldernowiser

[Sesquipedalia]

On 2/1/2020 at 8:02 PM, kaygeeret said:

Am I correct in the belief that this is the last season and this was the last episode?

 

There is definitely another season, and it will be the last one. And you may have meant to post this in a different episode thread, but Episode 12 is also not the final episode of Season 6. There is one more after this one.

[Clanstarling]

On 1/19/2020 at 12:31 AM, possibilities said:

Grace should have told Frankie what was going on. She and Nick also should have had a conversation where she stopped allowing him to frame it as Grace choosing Frankie over him. It's easy for him to say to forget an investment. He's got more money than he needs. He was asking Grace to give up her own business. Frankie wasn't the issue here at all.

Even if Frankie hadn't been involved, and Grace was the only one going on Shark Tank, Nick would still have asked this of her, without any explanation.  So I agree, Frankie wasn't the problem, and Nick was just using that to get his way. 

This wasn't throwing Nick under the bus for female friendship - this was Nick using female friendship as an excuse to get away with a ridiculous request without explanation. Not to mention, completely dismissive of Grace's business.

 

 

[sistermagpie]

23 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

This wasn't throwing Nick under the bus for female friendship - this was Nick using female friendship as an excuse to get away with a ridiculous request without explanation. Not to mention, completely dismissive of Grace's business.

 

In a way they were both using Frankie where she had nothing to do with it. Grace wasn't choosing Frankie over him and Grace wasn't reluctant to agree to it just because of Frankie. Of course the Frankie factor made it worse for Grace, but not because they're bffs. She was betraying her as a business partner and hurting their business--sort of like when Frankie pulled that blood hand moisturizer stunt on Brianna. Grace found it easier to say she just didn't want to hurt Frankie than stand up for her business.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

In a way they were both using Frankie where she had nothing to do with it. Grace wasn't choosing Frankie over him and Grace wasn't reluctant to agree to it just because of Frankie. Of course the Frankie factor made it worse for Grace, but not because they're bffs. She was betraying her as a business partner and hurting their business--sort of like when Frankie pulled that blood hand moisturizer stunt on Brianna. Grace found it easier to say she just didn't want to hurt Frankie than stand up for her business.

Good point.

[TV Diva Queen]

If Nick was asking her to not take Cuban's money, then he should have offered to invest the lousy $200k they were looking for.  

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

If Nick was asking her to not take Cuban's money, then he should have offered to invest the lousy $200k they were looking for.  

Didn't Grace make a point earlier of not wanting to take Nick's money?  If I'm not imagining that, I think we can assume that Nick did offer and she turned it down.

[andipandi]

Grace should never agreed to it without knowing what Cuban actually did to Nick. Petty stuff like outbidding for a basketball team ruining her business? 🙄 And of course she should have told Frankie and strategized better. Maybe play the sharks off each other more.

[Yeah No]

On 2/14/2020 at 12:32 PM, andipandi said:

Grace should never agreed to it without knowing what Cuban actually did to Nick. Petty stuff like outbidding for a basketball team ruining her business? 🙄 And of course she should have told Frankie and strategized better. Maybe play the sharks off each other more.

I know, I kept scratching my head to figure out why she didn't press Nick as to WHY he didn't want her to accept Cuban's offer.  I can see her potentially giving in to Nick if the reason were good enough (or he promised her something else in return for the favor), but I do think it's OOC for her to just dutifully give in to it without at least asking why.  That to me was unbelievable.

[sistermagpie]

52 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I know, I kept scratching my head to figure out why she didn't press Nick as to WHY he didn't want her to accept Cuban's offer.  I can see her potentially giving in to Nick if the reason were good enough (or he promised her something else in return for the favor), but I do think it's OOC for her to just dutifully give in to it without at least asking why.  That to me was unbelievable.

TBF, isn't that a big part of Grace's pre-Frankie personality, that despite being a female executive pretty ahead of her time, she has some outdated ideas about marriage that include this sort of thing? It's similar to her plastic-surgery self in the alternate history ep where she's changed her entire style to match her husband etc. She also put up with a lot from Robert that she shouldn't have.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

TBF, isn't that a big part of Grace's pre-Frankie personality, that despite being a female executive pretty ahead of her time, she has some outdated ideas about marriage that include this sort of thing? It's similar to her plastic-surgery self in the alternate history ep where she's changed her entire style to match her husband etc. She also put up with a lot from Robert that she shouldn't have.

True but isn't that type of thing what we were expecting she'd have grown away from after all this time post-Frankie?  I'm not liking how Grace in particular isn't being allowed to show any signs of growth.

[Bastet]

I love how this episode showed how ingrained habits and expectations are - If you sat down and presented this scenario to Grace, she'd say the woman in question should ask her husband why it was important to him not to do business with Mark Cuban, and, depending on that answer, either agree or not, and, if agree, go explain to her business partner and the two of them strategize how to pitch to the others.

But when she's living it, she falls right back into saying yes, and then trying to avoid dealing with it.  It was painful to watch - although I absolutely loved seeing her get up there and, with a little struggle, tell the world her age and her stuck on the pot story (while Frankie demonstrated) - but realistic, and necessary.  Frankie telling her she betrayed herself, which is the worst part, is what this boiled down to and I'm sure the finale will be about Grace coming to terms with that.  And I like that so much more than just another "they had a fight; will they break up?" conflict. 

The Bud storyline was silly, but I can see where it's tempting to feel heroic, when he's been the unsung rock of the family for so long.  And of course Coyote forgot all about the sugar prompt and just handed him the sugar and suggested, hey, maybe my brother can give you a kidney.

Robert and Sol's financial woes are still a big ball of whatever to me; they can still afford to go on the cruise.  Just confess you spent way over the limit, and why, promise never to do it again, and move on; the money isn't the issue.  And Peter can go away any time now.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Bastet

[LuvMyShows]

On 4/25/2020 at 10:17 AM, Yeah No said:

I know, I kept scratching my head to figure out why she didn't press Nick as to WHY he didn't want her to accept Cuban's offer.  I can see her potentially giving in to Nick if the reason were good enough (or he promised her something else in return for the favor), but I do think it's OOC for her to just dutifully give in to it without at least asking why.  That to me was unbelievable.

I'm sure everyone has seen the remaining episodes by now, but I haven't.  I suspect the reason she didn't press Nick is for plot purposes.  When Grace told Frankie that Cuban had done something really big to Nick, even though she admitted that she didn't know what it was, I think the writers are setting up that it will turn out to be something incredibly small that Cuban did.  If that's the case, I will be soooo mad at Nick.  I'm already mad at Nick for framing it as thinking that Grace should do this thing for him, rather than realizing that what it may cost her could be so much more significant.