Sanditon - General Discussion

[nx74defiant]

16 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

I wonder if Miss Lambe was inspired by someone like Dido Elizabeth Belle.

Thank you for the link.

[shapeshifter]

16 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

I wonder if Miss Lambe was inspired by someone like Dido Elizabeth Belle.

In terms of time frame and geography, Jane Austen would have had to at least known of Dido Elizabeth Belle, and very likely may have met her, right?

[la patineuse]

On 1/13/2020 at 5:58 AM, JudyObscure said:

Yes and the kindly but timid father.  Charlotte's father who never went beyond five miles from home reminded me of "Emma's" father who was so fearful of catching cold.  

The characters I found hard to believe ever coming from Jane Austen's pen were the angry young black woman with attitude, the "woke" young Charlotte who constantly squinted her eyes in annoyance, the ridiculously greedy and  lazy fat man, the young lady who gave hand jobs because she had been sexually assaulted as a little girl, and the gentleman who walked out of the water to expose full frontal nudity to a young lady.  It's easy to tell the Andrew Davies influence.  

I agree with so much of this.  I don't really care for this adaptation so far because the dialogue and the actions of these people are so uncharacteristic of both Austen and the era.  While some of Austen's characters can be somewhat unconventional and show remarkable independence for the time, these characters really stray too far.  And to be honest, I don't really like any of them---even the protagonists.

Also, there are too many characters that are either different reincarnations of other Austen character stories or seen superfluous.

I guess I'll see how this progress, but I'm disappointed so far.

[JustDucky]

On 1/17/2020 at 3:38 PM, morakot said:

I'm deciding to view this as a modern Regency romance by Andrew Davies "inspired by Jane Austen". 

Yup.  If you look at it like that, it's enjoyable.  Start thinking about Austen and "would she really...", and it muddies the water.  Kinda wish her name wasn't attached to this - I would be happier watching it.

With Downton Abbey being off the air (and watching the back episodes on Prime too often to mention!), I require a regular period drama, no matter how contrived.  And this one is especially easy on the eyes, if not the dialogue.

[scenicbyway]

Could someone please get Charlotte some spectacles?  The squinting is so distracting.

I loathe all of the characters associated with the manor house.  There’s no way the niece would’ve been allowed to take a bath in a room full of people.  There’s no way that Austen intended a slightly incestuous step sibling couple.

Charlotte can’t marry the construction manager because he’s a tradesman.

The only thing that resembles an Austen story is the clothing, sort of.

[seasons]

I guess i am in the minority, but i am enjoying this show immensely, just for what it is. Not looking at it really critically. I only watched "Victoria" as a point of comparison. I can see how things could be frustrating for those with more experience than me, and that's why it's fun to come here. I'm going to have to check out some of the other series you all are referencing.

[MisterGlass]

I enjoyed the third episode more than the second, perhaps because it was a little less anachronistic, and because the animosity between the two leads was dialed back.  I'm starting to warm to the characters, other than the Denham clan.  Their machinations are a little too mean-spirited.

It looks like their are eight total episodes, so next week is the mid point.

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

In terms of time frame and geography, Jane Austen would have had to at least known of Dido Elizabeth Belle, and very likely may have met her, right?

I tried googling a bit more to see if there was clear contact, and found this article from the Jane Austen Society of North America.  It seems Jane Austen met Belle's cousin Elizabeth a few times.

[HunterHunted]

On 1/13/2020 at 10:57 PM, statsgirl said:

And cousin Emilia Fox played Georgiana Darcy in Davies' 2005 Pride and Prejudice.

On 1/14/2020 at 3:18 AM, Spunkygal said:

Actually, she was in the 1995 version with Colin Firth.

 

You're thinking of Tamzin Merchant who played Georgiana Darcey in the 2005 film. Tamzin was originally cast as Daenerys Targaryen in Game of Thrones. She was in the original terrible pilot. Tamzin was fired and replaced by Emilia Clarke. That's how we get 3 degrees of Emilias.

On 1/15/2020 at 1:09 PM, norcalgal said:

Count me in as a fledgling Charlotte/Mr. Architect 'shipper, and I too noticed the interaction between the two as having undercurrents of possible romantic interest. 

It should be Charlotte and Stringer as endgame, but it will probably be Charlotte and Sidney seeing as she's seen him in his all together and Sidney's giving her heart eyes and stopped acting like an asshole.

13 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

Charlotte can’t marry the construction manager because he’s a tradesman.

THIS is the real impediment to Charlotte and Stringer.

13 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

Could someone please get Charlotte some spectacles?  The squinting is so distracting.

Men don't make passes at girls who wear glasses. Since this is such an unusual Austen adaptation, Andrew Davies should lean into it and pull a sexy librarian. Sidney doesn't even realize Charlotte is beautiful until she takes off her glasses and takes her hair out of the bun. Maybe Georgiana Lambe can give her a makeover.  <Cue Sixpence None the Richer> Kiss meeeeeee...

12 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

I enjoyed the third episode more than the second, perhaps because it was a little less anachronistic, and because the animosity between the two leads was dialed back.  I'm starting to warm to the characters, other than the Denham clan.  Their machinations are a little too mean-spirited.

Dialing Sidney's vitriol back was necessary because he was insufferable in the first 2 episodes. The Denhams are cartoon villains. They'd be cartoon villains in a book written now let alone a book written 200 years ago.

Quote

I tried googling a bit more to see if there was clear contact, and found this article from the Jane Austen Society of North America.  It seems Jane Austen met Belle's cousin Elizabeth a few times.

Austen had to have heard about Dido Belle because Georgiana and Dido share a decent amount of backstory and there's just no way to imagine that set of circumstances out of thin air.

This week on Charlotte saves everything, Charlotte help save older Mr. Stringer's leg by making a tourniquet with her skirts, prepping the Parker house for "surgery," and apparently being a stealth ER nurse. Charlotte convinces Sidney to let her hang out with Georgiana and persuades Sidney to treat Georgiana with kindness. Charlotte saves Sanditon by proposing a regatta to bring tourists, invents sand castles and sand castle building competitions, and uses Lady Denham's suggestion to always have a bit of saltwater every day and realizes people might be more inclined to take in the salt water if it is used to make sweet candy chews that are only sold on the wooden promenade that runs along side of the beaches at Sanditon.

I like the show well enough, but Charlotte is a massive Mary Sue.

Edited January 20, 2020 by HunterHunted

[shapeshifter]

Since Sidney and Charlotte now appear to be OTP, I suppose Young Stringer's father's near death experience might foretell Young Stringer's own ill fate.

 

The PBS OTA signal went out today, but fortunately the episode is online free. Thank you to any who give to the station?

[lucindabelle]

8 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

 ...

This week on Charlotte saves everything,  

Bravo that is very good!!!

 

it DOES feel like a Jane Austen copy doesn’t it right down to that “a woman with such a fortune must be in want of a husband.”

definitely not historically accurate- one of the things I loved about the 1995 P&P was how standards of beauty were that little but different- buxom was in- and Jane was beautiful while the slender “freckled thing” was not.

these girls are all very 21st century and high cheekbones looking.

what rude guy are all these Austen characters based on? There’s always some know it all man giving a girl a tongue lashing about her character and then she led away and thinks hmm, he was right.

but yes I agree that “I don’t think of you at all” to her apology was BEYOND. Darcy was mostly SHY. That was hostile. 
 

WHY would her family let her go off with two people they’d literally just met? I half expected them to sell her into slavery or force her to be a governess at the least. They’ve turned out to be just what they seemed but that was reckless! And bizarre. 

I like the foreman much MUCH better than Pamuk. 
 

lady Denham was bizarrely rude to Georgiana (another Georgiana? Did Austen run out of names?)

[JudyObscure]

9 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

This week on Charlotte saves everything, Charlotte help save older Mr. Stringer's leg by making a tourniquet with her skirts, prepping the Parker house for "surgery," and apparently being a stealth ER nurse.

And all without getting a drop of dirt or blood on her long white dress.

 

9 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

these girls are all very 21st century and high cheekbones looking.

It's Charlotte's wide rubbery lips that seem most out of place, to me,  in the era that so esteemed the tiny rosebud mouth.

I've concluded that Charlotte and Miss Lambe must have both attended finishing school in the San Fernado Valley of California.  It would be there that they learned to smirk in derision at religious people,  frown in mock question, squint their eyes in anger and roll them with disdain.  Their advanced feminist leanings and eagerness to buck against the patriarchy must have come from some very early underground pamphlets that historians have yet to discover.

I am still enjoying the scenery and some of the older actors like Anne Reid whose craggy face and crackling voice have always amused me. 

[taanja]

12 hours ago, seasons said:

I guess i am in the minority, but i am enjoying this show immensely, just for what it is. Not looking at it really critically. I only watched "Victoria" as a point of comparison. I can see how things could be frustrating for those with more experience than me, and that's why it's fun to come here. I'm going to have to check out some of the other series you all are referencing.

That is exactly me. It's eye candy. The people are pretty and I don't have to think too hard about anything. 

[taanja]

10 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I like the show well enough, but Charlotte is a massive Mary Sue.

A Mary Sue is my favorite kind of character! (Obviously they are written specifically for a certain audience -- and I am that audience!)

Plus I find the little actress very pretty. I can forgive pretty people anything.

[iMonrey]

I think we are meant to be rooting for Charlotte and Sidney but I much prefer Young Stringer for her. Or maybe it's just a classic triangle thing where we're supposed to be torn. 

[seasons]

Good grief, almost forgot about the "villianess" digging her nails into Clara's burn. Twice! I had to look away. 😨

[SedruolZenitram]

This Sanditon adaptation is flawed, but I find that I enjoy it enough to stick with it. The way I accept it is to think of it as Jane Austen fanfic (which it essentially is) - Jane set up the scene in 11 chapters, and Andrew Davies let his imagination run free to fill in the rest. I really do like the seaside setting, while construction is ongoing to build up the town - it's a very different dynamic from other Austen works. Some of the character dynamics  are starting to click for me. Some things that really make me side-eye (a shower demo in mixed company? Please!)  The music is fabulous and really establishes the mood of the piece.

Arthur Parker and his love of port and toast is just so endearing and seems like a character that could have plausibly been in an Austen novel.  Esther Denham is a great villain, although they've already gone way soapy with her with the "nails in Clara's wound" scene.  I thought it was interesting that Esther is clearly outmatched by Clara's ruthlessness. Clara didn't seem to feel pain which was spooky. Lady Denham seems heavily inspired by P&P's Lady Catherine .  Edward Denham seems like a less subtle Mr Wickham. Tom and Mary Parker are growing on me - Tom is quixotic, but really loves his family. Sidney is the brooding, smouldering enigma, and Theo James does know how to smoulder!  Not sure yet how I feel about Georgiana and Charlotte.  Georgiana Lambe may be very wealthy, but she's still an outsider in this land, so I don't totally buy that she would be this "bold." I would have bought her being more reserved and stand-offish like Mr Darcy, skeptical of everyone's motivations, but I would have thought she would be more respectful of clergy given the times, and more on guard as far as her behavior given the racial dynamics. Charlotte is treading awfully close to "insufferable" Mary Sue territory, but the character is saved by the actress being very endearing.

 

[morakot]

Just FYI, here is Wikipedia's summary of Jane Austen's original fragment. It does seem plausible that Andrew Davies decided to allow his desire to add drama - and melodrama - to her story.

 

The novel centres on Charlotte Heywood, the eldest of the daughters still at home in the large family of a country gentleman from Willingden, Sussex. The narrative opens when the carriage of Mr and Mrs Parker of Sanditon topples over on a hill near the Heywood home. Because Mr Parker is injured in the crash, and the carriage needs repairs, the Parkers stay with the Heywood family for a fortnight. During this time, Mr Parker talks fondly of Sanditon, a town which until a few years before had been a small, unpretentious fishing village. With his business partner, Lady Denham, Mr Parker hopes to make Sanditon into a fashionable seaside resort. Mr Parker's enormous enthusiasm for his plans to improve and modernise Sanditon has resulted in the installation of bathing machines and the construction of a new home for himself and his family near the seashore. Upon repair of the carriage and improvement to Mr Parker's foot, the Parkers return to Sanditon, bringing Charlotte with them as their summer guest.

Upon arrival in Sanditon, Charlotte meets the inhabitants of the town. Prominent among them is Lady Denham, a twice-widowed woman who received a fortune from her first husband and a title from her second. Lady Denham lives with her poor niece Clara Brereton, who is a sweet and beautiful, yet impoverished, young lady. Also living in Sanditon are Sir Edward Denham and his sister Esther, Lady Denham's nephew and niece by her second husband. The siblings are poor and are thought to be seeking Lady Denham's fortune. Sir Edward is described as a silly and very florid man, though handsome.

After settling in with the Parkers and encountering the various neighbours, Charlotte and Mr and Mrs Parker are surprised by a visit from his two sisters and younger brother, all of whom are self-declared invalids. However, given their level of activity and seeming strength, Charlotte quickly surmises that their complaints are invented. Diana Parker has come on a mission to secure a house for a wealthy family from the West Indies, although she has not specifically been asked for her aid. She also brings word of a second large party, a girls' school, which is intending to summer at Sanditon. This news causes a stir in the small town, especially for Mr Parker, whose fondest wish is the promotion of tourism in the town.

With the arrival of Mrs Griffiths at Sanditon, it soon becomes apparent that the family from the West Indies and the girls' school group are one and the same. The visitors consist of Miss Lambe, a "half mulatto"[3] rich young woman of about seventeen from the West Indies, and the two Miss Beauforts, common English girls. In short order, Lady Denham calls on Mrs Griffiths to be introduced to Miss Lambe, the very sickly and very rich heiress that she intends her nephew Sir Edward to marry.

A carriage unexpectedly arrives bearing Sidney Parker, the second eldest Parker brother. He will be staying in town for a few days with two friends who will join him shortly. Sidney Parker is around 27 or 28 and Charlotte finds him very good-looking with a decided air of fashion.

The book fragment ends when Mrs Parker and Charlotte visit Sanditon House, Lady Denham's residence. There Charlotte spots Clara Brereton seated with Sir Edward Denham at her side having an intimate conversation in the garden and surmises that they must have a secret understanding. When they arrive inside, Charlotte observes that a large portrait of Sir Henry Denham hangs over the fireplace, whereas Lady Denham's first husband, who owned Sanditon House, only gets a miniature in the corner — obliged to sit back in his own house and see the best place by the fire constantly occupied by Sir Henry Denham.

[Shanna Marie]

15 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

This week on Charlotte saves everything, Charlotte help save older Mr. Stringer's leg by making a tourniquet with her skirts, prepping the Parker house for "surgery," and apparently being a stealth ER nurse.

I can actually kind of buy that part because she's the oldest with about a zillion younger siblings, living on an isolated farm. Between the younger siblings, farm workers, and animals, she's probably had to do more than her fair share of first aid and knows just what to do in an accident. She wouldn't have had the luxury of fainting at the sight of blood. Women were expected to serve as nurses for the sick and injured, and the oldest daughter probably had to do a lot of the looking after the younger kids.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The way I accept it is to think of it as Jane Austen fanfic (which it essentially is) - Jane set up the scene in 11 chapters, and Andrew Davies let his imagination run free to fill in the rest.

I am not overly knowledgable about Austen's works so I am not in a position to judge whether this material feels genuine or consistent with those works. I think that helps me a great deal to enjoy the show for what it is. I find it to be a good story without the burden of comparing it to any literary work. 

Quote

Some things that really make me side-eye (a shower demo in mixed company? Please!) 

But then she was covered from head to toe. What I find odd is that the women are obliged to use "bathing machines" at the beach, which I am aware of being A Thing thanks to "Victoria," and even then are completely covered, whilst the menfolk are strutting along the beach fully naked. There doesn't seem to be any concern that the women folk should see them thusly. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by iMonrey

[norcalgal]

On 1/18/2020 at 7:54 PM, MisterGlass said:

I wonder if Miss Lambe was inspired by someone like Dido Elizabeth Belle.

If I recall correctly there’s a major motion picture that came out in the last decade based on the real life Belle.  I think the movie itself was titled “Belle”.

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think we are meant to be rooting for Charlotte and Sidney but I much prefer Young Stringer for her. Or maybe it's just a classic triangle thing where we're supposed to be torn. 

I’m not torn at all.  Put me on Team Stringer (even though I have a crush on Theo James).

[StrictTime]

I love period tv/films and Jane Austen. I’ve watched all the adaptations of P&P, MP, S&S, etc. The thing about Sanditon that pisses me off is that they get SO MUCH SO WRONG about the period details. If you want to sex it up and modernize it, just set it in modern times. And for heaven’s sake, don’t attach Jane Austen’s name to the result. I feel like it disrespects her fine body of work to be so cavalier with the setting and details. The weird music at the “ball” (in quotes because they really cheaped out on that scene), the shimmery lip gloss that notElizabeth wears, the hairstyles, the constant drinking, the lack of manners and social graces (that were the heart of all of Jane Austen’s work)—all are just so confusing to me as someone who watches costume productions to see a semblance of authenticity. I am not surprised that a second series did not get picked up in the U.K. I imagine that most viewers there were not amused either.
That said, I will continue to watch, like I would a comedy or train wreck. How bad can it get??

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I can actually kind of buy that part because she's the oldest with about a zillion younger siblings, living on an isolated farm. Between the younger siblings, farm workers, and animals, she's probably had to do more than her fair share of first aid and knows just what to do in an accident. She wouldn't have had the luxury of fainting at the sight of blood. Women were expected to serve as nurses for the sick and injured, and the oldest daughter probably had to do a lot of the looking after the younger kids.

Yes. I identified with Charlotte being much more capable than the arrogant fools surrounding her assumed. This is the kind of feminist storytelling I can appreciate. 

[HunterHunted]

7 hours ago, SedruolZenitram said:

Not sure yet how I feel about Georgiana and Charlotte.  Georgiana Lambe may be very wealthy, but she's still an outsider in this land, so I don't totally buy that she would be this "bold." I would have bought her being more reserved and stand-offish like Mr Darcy, skeptical of everyone's motivations, but I would have thought she would be more respectful of clergy given the times, and more on guard as far as her behavior given the racial dynamics. Charlotte is treading awfully close to "insufferable" Mary Sue territory, but the character is saved by the actress being very endearing.

Georgiana is deliberately being obnoxious so that these broke country aristocrats will consider her completely unsuitable for marriage. It's clear that Georgiana doesn't want a white guy who will be pat on the back for his willingness to overlook her race, especially when there's a fairly significant Black population in London and Georgiana seems to already have a beau. There were 10K - 20K Black-Britons living in London around that time. There were also other people of color coming from all over the British Empire and living in London. Many, if not most, of these POC were pretty poor, but there were a handful who had some money or were notable scholars. While not in London, but around the same time, the father of Alexandre Dumas, the Three Musketeers author, became the first Black brigadier general in the French military. Georgiana's behavior might be historically accurate if her purposes are to force Sidney to allow her to marry a Black Londoner with no money.

She's not Lydiot Bennet who was silly and stupid enough to ruin her reputation in a way that makes her seem like a stupid slattern with low morals. Georgiana is trying to come across as an ill tempered cow unsuited for polite society. She's being so uncivil that even a barely interested guardian has to question the motivations of any (white) gentleman who tries to woo her. It pretty much seems she's trying to get gossip going that she's only suited for someone of "her kind."

5 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I can actually kind of buy that part because she's the oldest with about a zillion younger siblings, living on an isolated farm. Between the younger siblings, farm workers, and animals, she's probably had to do more than her fair share of first aid and knows just what to do in an accident. She wouldn't have had the luxury of fainting at the sight of blood. Women were expected to serve as nurses for the sick and injured, and the oldest daughter probably had to do a lot of the looking after the younger kids.

It was already established in the first scene of episode 1 where Charlotte knows the Parkers' carriage is going too fast and Charlotte immediately figures out that Tom Parker is injured. The actress playing Charlotte is charming enough that it's easy enough to overlook that Charlotte is standing on the precipice of Mary Sue Gorge. If they aren't particularly careful and allow her to be even slightly wrong once in awhile, she's going to tumble in. Luckily she'll be wearing skis, which will allow her to water ski jump over a shark.

 

I totally thought the shower bath was going to end up being a proto-hydrotherapy genital massager to treat "hysteria." By the 1870s, doctors already had working mechanical vibrators so they no longer had to provide labor intensive genital massages by hand. There's a film about the history and development of the vibrator; it's aptly titled Hysteria.

Edited January 21, 2020 by HunterHunted

[shapeshifter]

39 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Georgiana is deliberately being obnoxious so that these broke country aristocrats will consider her completely unsuitable for marriage. It's clear that Georgiana doesn't want a white guy who will be pat on the back for his willingness to overlook her race…

This seems so obvious now that you mention it. Best board posters ever! And it is probably a different interpretation of the word “pert” (wikipedia.org/wiki/Dido_Elizabeth_Belle) than originally intended to describe Dido, but it would work here for Miss Lambe. 

Edited January 21, 2020 by shapeshifter

[SedruolZenitram]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

Georgiana is deliberately being obnoxious so that these broke country aristocrats will consider her completely unsuitable for marriage. It's clear that Georgiana doesn't want a white guy who will be pat on the back for his willingness to overlook her race, especially when there's a fairly significant Black population in London and Georgiana seems to already have a beau.

Good point. I think I was so influenced by the movie "Belle" (Gugu Mbatha-Raw being so powerful in the role) that I expected to see some echoes of her emotions/struggle reflected in the characterization of Georgiana Lambe. If acceptance is not her aim, I get it.  She's probably trying to get back to Antigua by whatever means necessary. 

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

It was already established in the first scene of episode 1 where Charlotte knows the Parkers' carriage is going too fast and Charlotte immediately figures out that Tom Parker is injured. The actress playing Charlotte is charming enough that it's easy enough to overlook that Charlotte is standing on the precipice of Mary Sue Gorge. If they aren't particularly careful and allow her to be even slightly wrong once in awhile, she's going to tumble in. Luckily she'll be wearing skis, which will allow her to water ski jump over a shark.

I hardly thinking that knowing the carriage was going too fast is evidence of Mary Sue-level uncanny genius. It was a narrow, uneven track (in the book it was stated that a carriage shouldn't even have been on that road, and Parker had to force the driver to take them), and Charlotte was familiar with the road, since it ran by her house. She'd have been an idiot if she hadn't been able to predict that wreck. And given how badly Parker landed, an injury was a pretty safe guess. If those are examples of her always being right in a way that makes her a Mary Sue, then we must be working from the "capable of making it home on her own" definition of a Mary Sue.

Now, we might be getting closer in her having all the good ideas for how to save the town, but we haven't yet seen how well that regatta will go. That is a fairly safe idea for a waterfront community, but I don't think we've seen anything in Charlotte's background that would suggest she'd have reasonable experience to know what a regatta might do.

[TrininisaScorp]

I'm trying to care for Ms Lambe b/c how often do I get a women of color in these period pieces?  I'm struggling to, though.  Something about her isn't connecting for me. 

Man, Charlotte is living her best life with Younger Stringer on one side and Sidney on the other.  LOL.  Stringer obviously admires her (in his cutie pie neckerchief), but it is clear that Sidney is the plan in his classic Austen ways.  Theo is a beautiful man, but I appreciate his acting in the show.  You see a good man below the surface of the brashness, devil may care thing Sidney is trying to put on front street.  (shallow) Theo is WORKING the period dress.  Damn dashing in the waistcoats and long jackets. (/shallow)

I do like that Charlotte is a bit oblivious to the male attention she receives.  She is a little bit of a Mary Sue, but I buy that the eldest daughter of farm owning gentry would know how to deal with some emergencies.  Charlotte is saved by being charming and sweet; plus, I like that she isn't a doormat for Sidney.  

Tom and Mary and the cute kids are growing on me a great deal.  Good to see Colin Frizzell is hapless, but good. 

The Denham young people part of the plot is the piece that drags for me.  I just could care less about any of them.  I normally find the Fox siblings to be compelling, but meh all around here.

[shapeshifter]

26 minutes ago, TrininisaScorp said:

I'm trying to care for Ms Lambe b/c how often do I get a women of color in these period pieces?  I'm struggling to, though.  Something about her isn't connecting for me. 

This episode we finally got to see more of who she is; likely the next episode with unfold more. It's hard to connect with a character that's treated as a set piece. I was surprised she has a secret beau in London; I thought the camera was showing us that she had eyes for Sydney beyond that of "guardian."

 

26 minutes ago, TrininisaScorp said:

Man, Charlotte is living her best life with Younger Stringer on one side and Sidney on the other.  LOL. 

I know! LOL indeed!

[HunterHunted]

10 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I hardly thinking that knowing the carriage was going too fast is evidence of Mary Sue-level uncanny genius. It was a narrow, uneven track (in the book it was stated that a carriage shouldn't even have been on that road, and Parker had to force the driver to take them), and Charlotte was familiar with the road, since it ran by her house. She'd have been an idiot if she hadn't been able to predict that wreck. And given how badly Parker landed, an injury was a pretty safe guess. If those are examples of her always being right in a way that makes her a Mary Sue, then we must be working from the "capable of making it home on her own" definition of a Mary Sue.

Now, we might be getting closer in her having all the good ideas for how to save the town, but we haven't yet seen how well that regatta will go. That is a fairly safe idea for a waterfront community, but I don't think we've seen anything in Charlotte's background that would suggest she'd have reasonable experience to know what a regatta might do.

While all of the above is very much true, the series is very much wedded to the idea that Charlotte's actions in these situations are very unusual. We know this because we've been shown Mr. and Mrs. Parker's astonishment as to Charlotte's ability to discern such things. Again we're shown Sidney's and the doctor's eyes of astonishment when Charlotte springs into action. In contrast, we see Mrs. Parker's bit of dithering during these events.  We're told that Charlotte's quick thinking helped save older Mr. Stringer's leg. I haven't read the book so I can only go off of what the series has told me. So I don't know that the road runs right by her house or that your average well brought up young woman would have studied medicinal herbs and a little rudimentary medicine. It doesn't matter if we think Charlotte's actions are remarkable because the show is telling us that they are. We wouldn't be given so many reaction shots of astonishment every time Charlotte does something if the series didn't want us to think that. It's all overwritten and lacking in subtlety just like the characterization of the Denhams. 

[proserpina65]

Okay, so having watched 3 parts so far, I can only describe this as Austen-lite.  It's pretty obvious that the novel on which it's based was unfinished, and thus unrevised.  The characters mostly come across as flat, with none of the layers usually seen in late Austen characters.  I'm a bit surprised that Andrew Davis adapted this, because it has little of the depth and charm seen in his adaptation of Pride and Prejudice.

I'll keep watching for now, because it's pretty, and British, but I do have to say I'm rather disappointed.

On ‎01‎/‎13‎/‎2020 at 9:02 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

To be clear, Sanditon is an unfinished novel by Jane Austen.  That's why the show "doesn't feel like Jane Austen".  She worked on it for less than 2 months before she died and completed only 11 chapters.  It should be considered a first draft, and only she knew the complete story, if she had even plotted it out that far.  There have been multiple attempts to complete the novel but I don't think any of them have been successful.  I've read one or two and they were totally blah and left no strong impression with me. 

Yes, clearly the fact that we're already beyond what Austen wrote is why this adaptation suffers greatly compared to the best Austen adaptations.  I honestly think they should've left it alone.

On ‎01‎/‎13‎/‎2020 at 10:20 PM, Mrs Shibbles said:

I’ll be watching Sanditon for the eye candy, but Howard’s End for the brain candy.  

I didn't like this particular adaptation of Howard's End, either.  Can't be bothered to watch it again.

On ‎01‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 12:59 PM, shapeshifter said:

I like the character of Miss Lambe

She's the only one whose story is particularly interesting.

On ‎01‎/‎16‎/‎2020 at 9:44 AM, pasdetrois said:

I thought the first two episodes were dreadful. Not because of the unfinished work, but just the acting and production. I won't finish the series.

I didn't think it was awful, but just rather insipid for the most part.  But you know, clothes/location porn, so I'm around for now.

[norcalgal]

18 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Georgiana is deliberately being obnoxious so that these broke country aristocrats will consider her completely unsuitable for marriage. It's clear that Georgiana doesn't want a white guy who will be pat on the back for his willingness to overlook her race, especially when there's a fairly significant Black population in London and Georgiana seems to already have a beau. There were 10K - 20K Black-Britons living in London around that time. There were also other people of color coming from all over the British Empire and living in London. Many, if not most, of these POC were pretty poor, but there were a handful who had some money or were notable scholars. While not in London, but around the same time, the father of Alexandre Dumas, the Three Musketeers author, became the first Black brigadier general in the French military. Georgiana's behavior might be historically accurate if her purposes are to force Sidney to allow her to marry a Black Londoner with no money.

She's not Lydiot Bennet who was silly and stupid enough to ruin her reputation in a way that makes her seem like a stupid slattern with low morals. Georgiana is trying to come across as an ill tempered cow unsuited for polite society. She's being so uncivil that even a barely interested guardian has to question the motivations of any (white) gentleman who tries to woo her. It pretty much seems she's trying to get gossip going that she's only suited for someone of "her kind."

[snip]

 

 

Ah yes, this does make sense. Good observation. I wonder if this feminist spin is actually in the unfinished novel, or if it's something Andrew Davies injected into the show?  Either way, I don't find it too anachronistic, so it's welcome on my part.

[morakot]

You can read the original first chapters here (for free).

[taanja]

On 1/20/2020 at 11:36 AM, seasons said:

Good grief, almost forgot about the "villianess" digging her nails into Clara's burn. Twice! I had to look away. 😨

I loved that scene! Our bland little poor relation isn't so bland! She's a conniving little beotch!

I like it!

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, taanja said:

On 1/20/2020 at 11:36 AM, seasons said:

Good grief, almost forgot about the "villianess" digging her nails into Clara's burn. Twice! I had to look away. 😨

I loved that scene! Our bland little poor relation isn't so bland! She's a conniving little beotch!

So Esther thinks, but Clara's retort hinted at a background with which the audience will come to sympathize:

Quote

You have no idea what I endured before I came here, and you have no idea what I'm prepared to do to ensure I stay. 

 

[Doublemint]

On 1/19/2020 at 6:20 PM, la patineuse said:

I agree with so much of this.  I don't really care for this adaptation so far because the dialogue and the actions of these people are so uncharacteristic of both Austen and the era.  While some of Austen's characters can be somewhat unconventional and show remarkable independence for the time, these characters really stray too far.  And to be honest, I don't really like any of them---even the protagonists.

Also, there are too many characters that are either different reincarnations of other Austen character stories or seen superfluous.

I guess I'll see how this progress, but I'm disappointed so far.

All of the above - perfectly said!

[scenicbyway]

Still hate watching Sanditon.  I wonder by Sidney really wants to keep Georgiana away from her boyfriend.  I suppose it’s about her money vs racism.

The whole manor house stuff is so boring.  Every week they must all find suitors.  But why does the nephew have to if he inherits the house?  He could sell it and the property and be totally fine!

The entire episode felt like filler.  Just end the series already!

[shapeshifter]

I'm not hate watching. There's enough to like, although it seemed maybe the setting I liked for the picnic may have had a little too much CGI. But yeah, maybe The Grammys would have been the better choice to watch live. Hard to say. 

5 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

 I wonder by Sidney really wants to keep Georgiana away from her boyfriend.  I suppose it’s about her money vs racism.

I'm guessing the money will have a twist to it, like she loses the money if she marries anyone, or she loses it if marries anyone without a title --both which would be veiled racism, so that's probably not right, since if Charlotte accuses Sidney of racism, it must turn out that he is not. Maybe he does love Georgiana himself. 

 

I wish Young Stringer had not burned his drawing, but I guess if he didn't we'd be anticipating a return of that plot point, so either the gazebo tower thingy isn't happening, or it will be a surprise when it does.

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by shapeshifter

[proserpina65]

I've given up on this show.  I taped it last night, realized I didn't care enough to bother to even watch it and rewound the tape to use for tonight's episode of Jeopardy.  I just didn't care about the plot, the characters or even the scenery enough to worry about it.

[humbleopinion]

On 1/17/2020 at 1:38 PM, morakot said:

I'm deciding to view this as a modern Regency romance by Andrew Davies  inspired with apologies to  by Jane Austen".  and her millions and millions of fans.

I fixed it for you....

[humbleopinion]

50 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

rewound the tape to use for tonight's episode of Jeopardy.  I just didn't care about the plot, the characters or even the scenery enough to worry about it.

Most people just simply delete the episode from their DVR... so appreciate your burn.....very OG

[proserpina65]

1 minute ago, humbleopinion said:

Most people just simply delete the episode from their DVR... so appreciate your burn.....very OG

I don't have a dvr.  It would be easier, but while Directv tells me I could have one for free as a customer of long-standing, somehow there'd be a charge for the content.  I don't understand it, but it would cost me money, and as long as my vcr works, I don't need it.

[treeofdreams]

I just can't put my finger on why I find this show so uninteresting.  I usually like the period dramas, and have a lot of them on DVD (including all of the Jane Austens).  I started this show by taping it, as I always do, but last night I stopped the tape halfway through and rewound to re-use the tape.

Is it the writing? the acting? what?  I don't really care whether or not it is faithful to Austen's work; I would be willing to just watch it for itself.  But...blah.  Any hints?

 

[scenicbyway]

27 minutes ago, treeofdreams said:

I just can't put my finger on why I find this show so uninteresting.  I usually like the period dramas, and have a lot of them on DVD (including all of the Jane Austens).  I started this show by taping it, as I always do, but last night I stopped the tape halfway through and rewound to re-use the tape.

Is it the writing? the acting? what?  I don't really care whether or not it is faithful to Austen's work; I would be willing to just watch it for itself.  But...blah.  Any hints?

 

The acting is pretty bad overall, everyone is twirling their mustaches so to speak.  Despite being on a beach, we rarely get any gorgeous shots.  All of the women are ridiculous, including Charlotte.  The way she is portrayed I keep expecting her to pull out her phone to check snapchat at any moment.  I think her character is too "woke" for the circumstances.  None of the men are redeeming beyond young Stringer, who has such a small role.  I did think it was interesting that Charlotte said his home reminded her of hers.  There's no way that can be true as her father is a gentleman and he's a tradesman.  

[humbleopinion]

I'll take a stab....

We are Jane Austin snobs.....tainted by the knowledge that someone tried to finish her last work and it falls flat....

The  Sanditon characters' behaviors are too loosey goosey....please give me a proper curtsy by the ladies and heel click by the gentlemen...where is the Oracle when you need him?

With the exception of Theo James and a few others, not in love with the casting...

For me it starts with the pale version of Howards End that precedes Sanditon...how can this HE adaptation even try to compare to the 1992 Ivory Merchant production

[Doublemint]

20 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

The acting is pretty bad overall, everyone is twirling their mustaches so to speak.  Despite being on a beach, we rarely get any gorgeous shots.  All of the women are ridiculous, including Charlotte.  The way she is portrayed I keep expecting her to pull out her phone to check snapchat at any moment.  I think her character is too "woke" for the circumstances.  None of the men are redeeming beyond young Stringer, who has such a small role.  I did think it was interesting that Charlotte said his home reminded her of hers.  There's no way that can be true as her father is a gentleman and he's a tradesman.  

Yes to snapchat and "woke".   The loose, hatless hair - too short for the time period, with layers.  No - just no.  The Brother & Sister lovebirds - sick.   Still I'm watching - there's nothing else out there.

[treeofdreams]

Perhaps one element of not liking this is that I do not care for any of the characters.  In the series that I do like, usually I have fallen in love with the characters, and I want to re-visit them again and again.  This show, not so much.

[HoodlumSheep]

A bit on the racy side at some points (that's andrew davies for ya) but my mom and i are enjoying it. I'm team Stringer(?) even though there's probably less than a 1% chance of it happening. Sidney's a bit too grouchy and rude for my taste. 

Mr. Parker's gonna live long enough to see himself become the villain. Also...his other brother (that is his brother right? There are too many siblings to keep track of :P) seems quite well off...why doesn't he ask him for financial help instead of pestering sidney for everything? He'd be an easy target imo. 

Edited January 27, 2020 by HoodlumSheep

[iMonrey]

Quote

We are Jane Austin snobs.....tainted by the knowledge that someone tried to finish her last work and it falls flat...

I can certainly understand a devotion to a particular author and a resistance to anything that doesn't feel authentic to their work. I'm sure that's a problem here. But not being an Austin fan, or knowing very much about her work, I have no such issues with this production. It isn't tainted for me the same way it is for Austin aficionados.

 I do agree, however, that some of it feels inauthentic to the period, especially in regards to Charlotte's hair. 

And some of it feels a little too formulaic, like the triangle between Charlotte, Sidney and Young Springer. Certainly she has misconstrued Sidney's objection to Miss's Lambe's beau, that's a given. She can't just go off and have a nice life with that nice Young Mr. Stringer. Too easy.

I do get a kick out of the Denham's though, and the hypochondriac Parker siblings. 

[meatball77]

Charlotte's hair drives me nuts.  She's practically a prostitute with her hair down like that and shouldn't there be a maid trailing after her all the time.  Running around unsupervised wasn't done for someone of her class.  I also don't understand why all these women are seeing men in their bedrooms, that's practically prostitute behavior, you could be ruined just by having the door shut with a guy in that age.

[norcalgal]

53 minutes ago, meatball77 said:

Charlotte's hair drives me nuts.  She's practically a prostitute with her hair down like that and shouldn't there be a maid trailing after her all the time.  Running around unsupervised wasn't done for someone of her class.  I also don't understand why all these women are seeing men in their bedrooms, that's practically prostitute behavior, you could be ruined just by having the door shut with a guy in that age.

Yep - ITA!  I was shocked they actually had Charlotte go into the Stringer home unaccompanied! It's just common knowledge that young, unmarried women were supervised every time they left the house, so I couldn't understand why Davies et al. would allow this?!  Talk about anachronistic!  Having said that, I'm still going to watch to the bitter end just to see how this series ended (since it's been made public there won't be a season 2).