S12.E03: Orphan 55

[Pattycake2]

I was actually enjoying this episode until a Bella became, for no good reason, a murderous psychopath, and the planet turned out to be EARTH!  Lecture, lecture, a heavy sigh issuing from my mouth, lecture.  Ryan is still a nonentity.  Yaz is turning out to be a pretty good companion, but I’m still wondering why a woman Doctor has to have a “fam” instead of just companions.   I vote for a throwback plot line by having Yaz fall in unrequited love with the Doctor. At least it would be interesting.

[gail56]

19 hours ago, GSManiac said:

I thought the whole episode was going to turn out to be one big hallucination by Ryan brought on by the attacking Vending Machine. 

That would have been funny, and cool!

[AudienceofOne]

18 minutes ago, Pattycake2 said:

I’m still wondering why a woman Doctor has to have a “fam” instead of just companions

Chib is very much an old-school Who writer and his Doctor is far more in line with Classic Who than with Moffatt in particular (but even RTD). This 'family' and 'bumbling scientist' themes ( and her outfit even ) are heavily redolent of the second doctor in particular and the fifth doctor as well. Even with one "companion", the Third Doctor too was very much about found family and the first Doctor of course was travelling with his actual family.

The Doctor travelling with one female companion was actually only a small chunk of the original show; mostly he travelled with a much larger entourage. Most writers of Who in the modern era grew up with Baker's Doctor and they have tended to try to recreate their perceptions of that era rather than the show as a whole.

I have no idea where this sudden essay is going. What was the question?

Oh, yeah, this has more to do with Chib's Classic Who approach than her sex, although it was inevitable that this point would be made. I believe that if they hadn't opted for a female doctor we would have still gotten this setup from Chib, assuming he would have been interested in taking over the show.

Which is to say, and this is possibly slightly off topic, Moffat's penis issues really do have a lot to answer for overall.

[Chyromaniac]

Sure, the message this week was a little less subtle than usual- but ya know, the Doctor just saw her people wiped out and her home burned to the ground.  So maybe discovering that humanity had turned the planet that she’s spent over a dozen lifetimes defending into a bombed out wasteland set off a nerve...

[tennisgurl]

So when did we get to the part where the Doctor finds the Statue of Liberty (Tower of London?) half buried in the desert, while Charlton Heston screams about how those maniacs blew it all up!? I mean, the "OMG IT WAS EARTH ALL ALONG!" twist? One of the most played twists in all of science fiction? Look, I dont really mind when Doctor Who does message episodes, they arent anything new to the franchise (want to know what the 80s era Who writers thought about the Thatcher admin? They'll tell you as many times as possible, in as many episodes as possible!) and they can be quite effective, and can be quite subtle or bash you over the head obvious, but they need to have a good story around it to make it work. An environmental message certainly isnt a bad thing, its a solid lesson and something to talk about, but the episode itself was so meh, that its hard to get that invested. 

After such an exciting start to the season, this episode was rather meh. Not awful or anything, and it was kind of cool seeing 13, who is normally so chipper, being a bit more snarky and brusc, still reeling from what happened to her home world, which lead to some pretty good character stuff, but the rest was...meh. Monsters attacking an enclosed space, cast of thinly written supporting characters (there were so many subplots, they were all pretty half baked) most of whom get killed, and the message at the end, which honestly seemed a bit tacked on. If your going to go all Captain Planet on us, commit to it! 

I feel like they were a little easy on Bella, all things considered. Yeah her mom sucked and didnt pay attention to her, but thats not a great excuse to do something that caused the brutal deaths of tons of innocent people. Yeah the Doctor told her that this was all her fault and she probably died in a heroic sacrifice type deal, but Ryan was still practically flirting with her, even after knowing that all of these deaths were on her. 

I know that this shows budget can be basically a run to British Party City and a prayer at times, especially when it comes to aliens, and thats often a part of the shows charm, but these outfits looked painfully bad. The catgirl looked like a Cats cosplay gone wrong (and yet still less creepy than the movie version!) and wigs? Wigs that looked like my cheap high school Halloween costume? 

So I guess we are doing an alternate timeline thing now? Does that tie in with the light creatures from last week from another universe? I thought that we had a pretty good idea of what happened to Earth in the future, but I guess not? Multiverse theory? I guess it mostly exists to deliver the message, but I am trying to figure out how this fits into the shows continuity, and I have no clue. I mean, I am open to them doing some timie wimie multiple futures time is a flat center stuff, just maybe make it more of a thing then this season? 

I do like the idea that the ruined Earth is also a reflection of the Doctor losing Galiffry and her speech at the end was also about her hope that her home could be saved again.

 

[Keely]

1 hour ago, eliot90000 said:

I agree with you entirely.  And, it’s just so obvious.  This post will probably get taken down, but those voices have spoiled this particular show forum for me.  Dr. Who is cheese.  It always has been cheese, sometimes with interesting ideas thrown in the mix.  Apparently it only matters that it’s cheese when The Doctor is played by a woman.  

Cheese doesn't usually come with heavy handed lectures. That's what makes it cheese and fun.

As to the other point I've been trying to ignore. First, I'm a woman. Second, while there have certainly been people who dislike her or the show due to her gender, there are also valid criticisms of the show beyond them. The voices of the former do not invalidate the latter.

[Llywela]

6 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Moffatt deliberately forgetting that Timelords recognise each other at all times in every regeneration

Um...I suspect this is a New Who retcon anyway. I can think of any number of occasions in the classic show when the Doctor absolutely did not realise who a fellow Time Lord was when he first met them. Starting with the Monk way back in the First Doctor era and continuing  through the War Games for the Second Doctor and onto the Master's many successful disguises through multiple regenerations.

[Eulipian 5k]

Well they've done it! I was hoping that the Master would suddenly appear to use the TCE on some of these guests:

• Bella for being a re-tread Mels  with Mommie issues. (Isn't that what River is?)
• Mr&Ms Bennie for being a re-tread Morvin & Foon Van Hoff from the 10th's fakecation on the Titanic
• Kane for me not recognizing her without the Stevia.
• The Dregs for being re-tread mutated humans on a re-tread destroyed Earth; plus they "Angel-Bobbed" Bennieeee!

They used bits n pieces from so much of the 10th/11th that I give it a pass as the throwaway episode; just chuckle at the Dad jokes and police the canon. 

[libgirl2]

6 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Well they've done it! I was hoping that the Master would suddenly appear to use the TCE on some of these guests:

• Bella for being a re-tread Mels  with Mommie issues. (Isn't that what River is?)
• Mr&Ms Bennie for being a re-tread Morvin & Foon Van Hoff from the 10th's fakecation on the Titanic
• Kane for me not recognizing her without the Stevia.
• The Dregs for being re-tread mutated humans on a re-tread destroyed Earth; plus they "Angel-Bobbed" Bennieeee!

They used bits n pieces from so much of the 10th/11th that I give it a pass as the throwaway episode; just chuckle at the Dad jokes and police the canon. 

That is who I was reminded of! 

[QuantumMechanic]

14 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I had a whole big post but I think I broke rules on discussing politics so I broke it down to the bare bones.    Mostly that I don't think this show has ever been subtle about anything.   I also don't think most people cared until a female Doctor which suddenly made people hyper aware of everything she says and does.   If Ten or Eleven talked about global warming...

There’s not subtle and NOT SUBTLE.

If the current writers had written “Genesis of the Daleks”, Four’s “But do I have the right?” would have been 30 seconds or more of him going on and on about only bad people would do something like blow up an incubator and play god over beings that hadn’t carried out their own acts yet, and telling Sarah Jane (or whoever was with him in that scene) how that’s the sort of thing fascists would to. And the Daleks probably would have been created  by the Nazis, from Hitler’s DNA.

[darkestboy]

Well, that was boring as hell. Please can we not have Ed Hime ever write for the show ever again? Some writers get this show, Hime does not.

The guest cast were bland, the companions are still useless.

The message was heavy handed and poorly delivered at the end of this one.

The Dregs did look menacing enough though, 6/10

Edited January 14, 2020 by darkestboy

[DanaK]

Ed Hime seems to like to overstuff his stories going by the 2 Doctor Who scripts he’s written. And it did have too many characters and too many plots going on. And it certainly has divided the fans. 

That said, I still enjoyed it in spite of its flaws. I especially liked the attack on the truck and the scenes surrounding that, and I liked the Doctor taking charge, particularly given the complaints that she didn’t do enough of that in Series 11. I thought Jodie was pretty strong in this episode

[Prower]

15 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

The Doctor travelling with one female companion was actually only a small chunk of the original show; mostly he travelled with a much larger entourage.

But back then stories were often 6+ episodes long. There is no time for a gaggle of companions in the currents shows structure. None of them are fleshed out, after more than a full season and it hurts the show.

I think in the modern structure there is space for one companion at a time to be introduced. Even with my favorite companions from NuWho, Amy and Rory, you had Amy alone for a season to properly introduce her.

13 hours ago, eliot90000 said:

I agree with you entirely.  And, it’s just so obvious. 

Yes, it's so obvious! Nobody ever complained about RTD or Moffat, while they were actually churning out way better stories than these abominations. Must be sexism!

[Set Them Free]

So I am curious, what is the cannon on what happens to Earth in the future in the WhoVerse?

I have watched NewWho pretty regularly, but not as much of the old show.  What I vaguely remember is that Earth lasts another 5 billion years, but that humanity has spread beyond earth long before that...

[Llywela]

On 1/14/2020 at 12:55 PM, Set Them Free said:

So I am curious, what is the cannon on what happens to Earth in the future in the WhoVerse?

I have watched NewWho pretty regularly, but not as much of the old show.  What I vaguely remember is that Earth lasts another 5 billion years, but that humanity has spread beyond earth long before that...

Canon (just the one 'n', unless you intend to fire it at passing pirates 😉) has humanity enduring, rather than being wiped out and turning into mutant monsters. I mean, the notion of there being a time in Earth's future when the planet is rendered uninhabitable, that's actually a long established part of Doctor Who canon. There have been several stories, both Classic and New, set during that time period, so if they'd linked this story to that, it would actually have been a nice note of continuity. But in those stories, that happened because of solar flares, rather than being a man-made disaster like in this episode. And in those stories, mankind always endured - sending the population fleeing into space in colony ships or into cryogenic suspension in hastily converted space stations, etc. And they returned to Earth later, once the planet had recovered.

It was the idea of this being a man-made disaster that caused anyone left on Earth to mutate into monsters, that's what is new here, and doesn't entirely jibe with the established future. But then, 5 billion years is a long time, I suppose. Time enough for a planet to go through more than a few ups and downs!

ETA - on a related note, found this spoof of that final scene on Tumblr, thought you guys here might enjoy it too:

Quote

Yaz: You mean time isn’t fixed? Earth might not be destroyed.

Thirteen: Yes. And no. I mean, there are all those solar flares that keep trashing the place and forcing the locals to flee on arks, and spaceships, and spaceships that are really just star whales with the UK on it’s back. I say the UK, Scotland wasn’t there. And I don’t think I saw Wales either. You know, except for the one we were riding on. Oh, and there was that time the Time Lords wrecked it, moved it across the galaxy and renamed it Ravolox. Sorry about that. My fault a bit. Well, an evil me. I think. Anyway, things all work out in the end. The planet is always put back together and people start living there again. At least until the year 5 billion, that’s when it gets properly blasted for good. But don’t worry, it was empty, no one died. Well, some people died, but not on the planet, they were guests at the party. Not that we were celebrating the end of the world. Okay, we were, but it turned into a right downer. Point is they built a brand spanking new Earth not long after and everything worked out okay. Until everyone there died. Even Jack. And he was just a head in a jar by that point. See this is why I never talk about myself. It isn’t cheery. Although the bit where they thought a jukebox was an iPod was bloody hilarious. I was giggling about that for weeks. Ahhh, good times. What were we talking about again?

Graham: You two hold her down, I’ll get the duct tape.

Source

On 1/14/2020 at 12:35 PM, Prower said:

But back then stories were often 6+ episodes long. There is no time for a gaggle of companions in the currents shows structure. None of them are fleshed out, after more than a full season and it hurts the show.

I think in the modern structure there is space for one companion at a time to be introduced.

Now this is an argument I've never been able to get behind. TV is full of shows with full ensemble casts and only 45 minutes per episode to tell a story, and most of them manage to flesh out and develop their characters just fine. It's all about how you use the characters and where you place the emphasis in your storytelling. If you have three or four regular cast members you structure your storytelling slightly differently than if you have only two, in order to accommodate them. It is perfectly possible. Doctor Who has done it before and could do it again.

I agree, though, that it helps if they are introduced one at a time rather than in a block like these three were. I don't think they need a full season in between, though. Just an episode or two would suffice. My ideal for Doctor Who is two companions, overlapping, preferably from different times and places. Pick up one, give them a couple of episodes to settle in, then bring in another, and build storylines out of the relationships they forge with one another, as well as with the Doctor. It was a system that always worked well in the classic show, even without properly serialised storytelling or modern continuity - I've never understood why the reboot didn't pick up that structure and run with it, there is so much potential there, just ripe for modern development.

(sorry for double post - I meant to edit this into the post above, but had a technology fail)

Edited January 14, 2020 by Llywela

[Prower]

10 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Now this is an argument I've never been able to get behind. TV is full of shows with full ensemble casts and only 45 minutes per episode to tell a story, and most of them manage to flesh out and develop their characters just fine. It's all about how you use the characters and where you place the emphasis in your storytelling.

Yes, but those shows usually don't have episodes of the week, where they have to establish a completely new alien planet and evil menace most of the time. There is just not enough time left after that.

Or I'm wrong and the writers just aren't good enough to do so. I mean we know they aren't good enough to write a coherent narrative, so it would make sense...

[Rhetorica]

1 hour ago, Llywela said:

Canon (just the one 'n', unless you intend to fire it at passing pirates 😉) has humanity enduring, rather than being wiped out and turning into mutant monsters. I mean, the notion of there being a time in Earth's future when the planet is rendered uninhabitable, that's actually a long established part of Doctor Who canon. There have been several stories, both Classic and New, set during that time period, so if they'd linked this story to that, it would actually have been a nice note of continuity. But in those stories, that happened because of solar flares, rather than being a man-made disaster like in this episode. And in those stories, mankind always endured - sending the population fleeing into space in colony ships or into cryogenic suspension in hastily converted space stations, etc. And they returned to Earth later, once the planet had recovered.

It was the idea of this being a man-made disaster that caused anyone left on Earth to mutate into monsters, that's what is new here, and doesn't entirely jibe with the established future. But then, 5 billion years is a long time, I suppose. Time enough for a planet to go through more than a few ups and downs!

ETA - on a related note, found this spoof of that final scene on Tumblr, thought you guys here might enjoy it too:

Source

 

Thank you, Llywela, for posting this. What a clever ending this would have been. And in character for the doctor too.

[Llywela]

42 minutes ago, Prower said:

Yes, but those shows usually don't have episodes of the week, where they have to establish a completely new alien planet and evil menace most of the time. There is just not enough time left after that.

Or I'm wrong and the writers just aren't good enough to do so. I mean we know they aren't good enough to write a coherent narrative, so it would make sense...

I think it could be done, but they'd have to approach their storytelling a little differently, and there doesn't seem to be the will to do that - a particular formula was established in 2005 that has pretty much stuck ever since. But that formula isn't the only way of telling a story.

Well, it is currently a moot point anyway, since we seem to be stuck with the current approach, whether it works all that well or not.

[Eulipian 5k]

Every "we're on a ship!" show on TV has always required a captain (the Doctor) and at least 4 to 5 crew members,(companions). All were 1 hour with commercials.  All these shows from "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" to "Star Trek" were built on a monster of the week character. None of them were Shakespeare, but we survived, and iconic characters were created; (all white, except for the green guy from Vulcan).

Now that we have openly  LGBTQ persons (men)  in the writer's/show runner's room, inevitably more of their  experience  is being represented. I don't see how more representation cannot help any show to better examine the human condition, esp. for a show dealing with aliens. "The old order changeth, making way for the new". Allons Y, Dr Who, we're not all there yet.

[Prower]

21 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Every "we're on a ship!" show on TV has always required a captain (the Doctor) and at least 4 to 5 crew members,(companions). All were 1 hour with commercials.  All these shows from "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" to "Star Trek" were built on a monster of the week character. None of them were Shakespeare, but we survived, and iconic characters were created; (all white, except for the green guy from Vulcan).

But they always stayed in more or less the same setting.

21 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Now that we have openly  LGBTQ persons (men)  in the writer's/show runner's room, inevitably more of their  experience  is being represented. I don't see how more representation cannot help any show to better examine the human condition, esp. for a show dealing with aliens. "The old order changeth, making way for the new". Allons Y, Dr Who, we're not all there yet.

How did gay people come into this?

56 minutes ago, Llywela said:

I think it could be done, but they'd have to approach their storytelling a little differently, and there doesn't seem to be the will to do that - a particular formula was established in 2005 that has pretty much stuck ever since. But that formula isn't the only way of telling a story.

Yeah, I think it would be easily doable if they did more multi parters and had better writers. I think we agree there. But it might not be possible with the current format and certainly isn't with the current writers.

[DanaK]

On 1/12/2020 at 9:11 PM, Terrafamilia said:

If the oxygen level was 1% what was burning in the tunnel and how?

I’ve seen some suggestions of magnesium given the color

On 1/13/2020 at 10:02 AM, libgirl2 said:

I thought she looked familiar and looked her up. She was in quite a few movies int he 60s including Alfie. 

She’s also Ben Fogle’s mom and some people online kidded she’s better known as that these days

[Set Them Free]

Quote

43 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Canon (just the one 'n', unless you intend to fire it at passing pirates 😉) has humanity enduring, rather than being wiped out and turning into mutant monsters. I mean, the notion of there being a time in Earth's future when the planet is rendered uninhabitable, that's actually a long established part of Doctor Who canon. There have been several stories, both Classic and New, set during that time period, so if they'd linked this story to that, it would actually have been a nice note of continuity. But in those stories, that happened because of solar flares, rather than being a man-made disaster like in this episode. And in those stories, mankind always endured - sending the population fleeing into space in colony ships or into cryogenic suspension in hastily converted space stations, etc. And they returned to Earth later, once the planet had recovered.

It was the idea of this being a man-made disaster that caused anyone left on Earth to mutate into monsters, that's what is new here, and doesn't entirely jibe with the established future. But then, 5 billion years is a long time, I suppose. Time enough for a planet to go through more than a few ups and downs!

ETA - on a related note, found this spoof of that final scene on Tumblr, thought you guys here might enjoy it too:

Source

 

 

Thanks.  "Cannon" did look a little wrong.

I didn't think this episode suggested that humanity was wiped out and all that was left was the monsters.  I thought they were saying that much of humanity had left the planet and lived on other worlds by this time.  But a remnant of humanity that was left behind during some future disaster (which looked like some combination of mass extinction and war) mutated into those creatures.

[AudienceofOne]

5 minutes ago, Set Them Free said:

I didn't think this episode suggested that humanity was wiped out and all that was left was the monsters

She said that orphan planets were often created when the elite destroyed everything and left, leaving everybody else behind to die. These were the remaining people who couldn't afford to leave, not the entire human population. And since the planet was regenerating it could be seen as possible for humanity to move back in.

Not that I want to defend this episode too much - it was extremely badly written.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

5 hours ago, Prower said:

But they always stayed in more or less the same setting.

How did gay people come into this?

Yeah, I think it would be easily doable if they did more multi parters and had better writers. I think we agree there. But it might not be possible with the current format and certainly isn't with the current writers.

Have the writers ever introduced gay Daleks or Cybermen????

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

Have the writers ever introduced gay Daleks or Cybermen????

I believe that both Daleks and Cybermen would declare sexuality of any kind to be irrelevant. Their interests lie in other directions entirely 😉

[Eulipian 5k]

We saw how the "Fam" got to Tranq. Spa, but they're time travelers on an alien space ship and very familiar with being teleported. How did the others get there? Are they from Earth's future where teleporting is a common mode of travel? Did they know that Earth is a wasteland with an unbreathable atmosphere before they got the free trip to the spa? I assume that the Blue Boy and Blue Dad and the cat person were from another planet, but surely not Benniieeee, Bella or Kane & crew.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Eulipian 5k
Bel,l Book, & Kandle

[The Companion]

 

On 1/12/2020 at 3:44 PM, Llywela said:

Hmm. Okay, not going to be a fave, this one. A solid enough episode but, I dunno, it didn't really gel, for me.

The reveal that Orphan 55 was actually Earth wasn't particularly satisfying, imo, partly because it seemed at odds with what we've seen of future Earth on the show before (granted the Doc says this is just one timeline, though that in itself raises questions about exactly how the TARDIS travels in comparison to what has been established before), but mainly because I think it would have been more interesting if for once it wasn't Earth, you know? It doesn't always have to be Earth.

I appreciate the political sentiment about caring for the planet, though it got more than a little heavy handed in the final scenes, and a large but decent guest cast were unfortunately not given enough room to develop their characters. Potentially interesting one shots like Hyph3n were underused and little more than cannon fodder. Also, this has all been done before of course: holiday planet at risk from native threat.

I dunno. It wasn't a bad episode, but it didn't really wow and I don't think it's one I'd rush to revisit. Also it has that particularly blood thirsty feel that some eps of New Who have - its all well and good to try and present a moving self-sacrifice to try and affect the audience, but when you've just wiped out an entire resort of guests without a blink (and largely off screen), it's a little hollow.  I'm never that keen on episodes where Team TARDIS are practically the only people left standing at the end, with the rest of the cast falling by the wayside one by one.

I liked some of the character notes - I thought Yaz was quietly effective in this one, leaning into her police training (and, I guess, the instincts that took her into the police in the first place). Ryan's bond with Bella didn't work for me, though, not least because the show was still playing on it as a pseudo-romance even after it had been revealed that Bella was responsible for the deaths of most of the rest of the cast, including an entire resort full of guests. Her culpability really wasn't emphasised enough, imo, and her motivation was extremely weak. 'My mum neglected me when I was growing up, so I'm going to destroy her life's work, including the dozens of innocent bystanders who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.' Yeah, no, she deserved no sympathy.

I think you have summarized a lot of my feeling on this episode. The high body count and particularly gruesome (for Doctor Who) deaths made it really hard to root for Bella or to be moved by her sacrifice at the end. I didn't mind the concept of global warming as the cause, but the speech at the end was just so over the top.  Plus, I was really enjoying the feeling of a totally foreign planet and a new monster that was difficult to read. Making it Earth sort of took away from that for me. 

On 1/12/2020 at 8:34 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm a pretty easy going fan, but that was... not good. I don't mind a little lecturing, because we are doing a shit job of taking care of the planet, but this was way too anvilicious. The opening scene was the best part of the episode, but by the climax I was kind of rooting for the monster. Both mom and daughter were the worst.

They were really terrible, weren't they? I tend to be fairly forgiving as well, but something about this episode went off the rails for me. 

On 1/12/2020 at 10:21 PM, Starchild said:

This is, first and foremost, a kid's show, right? Sometimes you don't want to be subtle.

Well, this episode definitely wasn't particularly kid friendly. My son loves Doctor Who, but this won't be one he gets to see. He loved the big spider episode and loves the Weeping Angels a lot. But these monsters were really intense. 

On 1/13/2020 at 7:03 PM, Chaos Theory said:

I had a whole big post but I think I broke rules on discussing politics so I broke it down to the bare bones.    Mostly that I don't think this show has ever been subtle about anything.   I also don't think most people cared until a female Doctor which suddenly made people hyper aware of everything she says and does.   If Ten or Eleven talked about global warming it probably would have been shrugged off but the 13th Doctor has everyone picking apart every sentence and facial expression like it means something.     

That all being said I think the show needs to back away from too many message episode and go back to adventure episodes which is where I always felt the show was at its best.  Which is why I am looking forward to whatever is going with the Doctor's planet because it will get the writers away from their own inclination of writing too many message episodes which doesn't do the show too many favors especially now with everyone picking apart the show like never before.

I think this is an interesting point. I do think, particularly in some of the classic episodes, the Doctor did sometimes go off on these teaching tangents. I still didn't like the speech and don't think I would have liked it on any Doctor because of the awkward way it was shoehorned in, but I do think it is a worthwhile point to note that this is definitely not the first time the Doctor basically took on a professor lecturing type role. 

I was loving this episode about halfway through, except for being disappointed that it was way to scary for my kiddo. He loves the show, but I have to screen for intensity. It feels like there is a particularly high body count in a lot of Thirteen's episodes (I complained about it last year) with on screen deaths or corpses. More than that, this one was intensely scary in a way that wasn't very Doctor Who. Deaths were on screenish (the sauna scene in particular). The monster was scary and unable to be reasoned with. Just straight murdery. There was a lot of shooting and running. I kept waiting for the Doctor to get some insight into the monsters and figure out some big way to coexist or get out or something. There was a slight movement towards that in the scene with the cage, but it was quickly discarded for more shooting and explosions. I really wanted the Doctor to use her brain, but instead it was all gun fights and body count. Don't get me wrong. I am a huge sci fi/horror nerd and the dripping teeth were awesome. It just wasn't very Doctor Who.

What worked? The planet was so cool with the fog. It really ratcheted up the tension. I liked Bella up until she was revealed to be a secret murderer. I liked the ancillary characters before they were all eaten. I really liked the "alien spa" setting and the reveal that it was all smoke and mirrors. I liked the companions this episode and think the show is getting a far better rhythm with them. 

So overall, a step back for me. Last week "felt" like a Doctor Who episode for me. This one did not. But I am still really loving Thirteen and the way they are using the companions this year. Will it go on my rewatch list? No. But hopefully we can keep some of the other momentum going this season.

ETA: I really hated Bella's motivation. I don't know if I can fully articulate it except to say that there seemed to be some implication that her mother abandoned her for work, but it was okay because she was doing it for Bella and it just didn't work for me. Maybe I am just feeling my return to work after maternity leave, but it felt like there was some implicit approval of abandoning her daughter (maybe you should have told her then) while also implying that it was totally reasonable to go on a murder spree because your mother isn't around. I mean, I assume there are communication options in existence here. Contrast her with the working dad from Kerblam who only saw his kid twice a year and his treatment. Working women are often treated like they are abandoning their kids. People will literally say things like "why have kids if you aren't going to be there for them?" So, I don't know, I am making a mess of this point except to say I would have appreciated an entirely different motivation.

Edited January 15, 2020 by The Companion

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

I think this is an interesting point. I do think, particularly in some of the classic episodes, the Doctor did sometimes go off on these teaching tangents. I still didn't like the speech and don't think I would have liked it on any Doctor because of the awkward way it was shoehorned in, but I do think it is a worthwhile point to note that this is definitely not the first time the Doctor basically took on a professor lecturing type role.

I agree with your whole post, but quoting this bit because I just last weekend watched the 3rd Doctor adventure Invasion of the Dinosaurs from 1974 (with my 4yo niece, who loves dinosaurs). That story also has an environmental undertone, in that the bad guys turn out to be environmentalists who think the Earth is being destroyed by pollution and want to turn back time (for a carefully chosen elite, obvs) in order to start over. They are defeated, but the Doctor is sympathetic to their cause if not their plan, and the story ends with this exchange:

Quote

BRIGADIER: The man was mad.
DOCTOR: Yes, well, of course he was mad. But at least he realised the dangers this planet of yours is in, Brigadier. The danger of it becoming one vast garbage dump inhabited only by rats.
BRIGADIER: It'll never happen, Doctor.
DOCTOR: It's not the the oil and the filth and the poisonous chemicals that are the real cause of pollution, Brigadier. It's simply greed.

It is much the same point that Thirteen made at the end of this episode, but way more concise! So yeah, the Doctor always was fond of lecturing, but those lectures tended not to be as long-winded as what we're getting now, and it is that long-windedness that makes it so very heavy handed. Belabouring the point like that undermines the argument. If she'd kept it short and sweet, there wouldn't have been half so many complaints, I'm sure, and the speech would have been all the stronger for it.

[The Companion]

8 minutes ago, Llywela said:

I agree with your whole post, but quoting this bit because I just last weekend watched the 3rd Doctor adventure Invasion of the Dinosaurs from 1974 (with my 4yo niece, who loves dinosaurs). That story also has an environmental undertone, in that the bad guys turn out to be environmentalists who think the Earth is being destroyed by pollution and want to turn back time (for a carefully chosen elite, obvs) in order to start over. They are defeated, but the Doctor is sympathetic to their cause if not their plan, and the story ends with this exchange:

It is much the same point that Thirteen made at the end of this episode, but way more concise! So yeah, the Doctor always was fond of lecturing, but those lectures tended not to be as long-winded as what we're getting now, and it is that long-windedness that makes it so very heavy handed. Belabouring the point like that undermines the argument. If she'd kept it short and sweet, there wouldn't have been half so many complaints, I'm sure, and the speech would have been all the stronger for it.

I agree that would have been stronger and feel like that could be said for a lot of the episode. The script was in dire need of a rewrite. 

[DanaK]

2 hours ago, The Companion said:

Deaths were on screenish (the sauna scene in particular).

It's funny, I've seen some people criticizing it in part because the deaths were all off-screen

[The Companion]

4 minutes ago, DanaK said:

It's funny, I've seen some people criticizing it in part because the deaths were all off-screen

That is funny. The episode definitely had a lot of close up of drooling monster teeth, which I like as a sci fi/horror fan, but not so much as a parent of a 6 year old. I recall several episodes last year where we had to decide if my kiddo would be upset because they actually showed people who had been killed by the monster of the week. It may just be more noticeable because I am screening for the kiddo, but I don't remember many on screen or gory deaths in the history of the show. 

[Sakura12]

I read some posts here before watching this episode and it was no where near as bad as it was made to seem. It definitely wasn't my favorite but it wasn't bad. I mean Moffat's episodes made me stop watching entirely. I'm still interested in watching this series. I do think it had a good story on there but there was too much going on. Which I do think is the too many companions. Writing for an ensemble takes some skill. There are only few writers that are good at it. 

I didn't mind the message since it is a problem we are facing now. We have a whole continent that's on fire right now. Sci Fi is one the only mediums that can show a potential future of Earth.

[DanaK]

8 hours ago, The Companion said:

The episode definitely had a lot of close up of drooling monster teeth, which I like as a sci fi/horror fan, but not so much as a parent of a 6 year old.

Understandable. A young child might get easily upset over something an adult wouldn't think is an issue

8 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I do think it had a good story on there but there was too much going on. Which I do think is the too many companions. Writing for an ensemble takes some skill. There are only few writers that are good at it. 

I think it was more too many guest characters. I think Hime might not be best suited to write for a 50 minute TV episode. His two Who episodes so far suggest a lot of interesting and complex ideas but he tries to cram too much into an episode and things probably had to be cut out. I felt the same way about It Takes You Away, as it felt like there was more to the middle section in the Anti-Zone that got cut out and it felt like 3 different plots going on between the first, second and third sections of the episode. I ended up liking the episode, but mostly for the final 3rd of it; the middle part in the Anti-Zone did little for me

[Sakura12]

I do like that they are keeping the Doctor's new attitude and shorter fuse carried over from the last episodes. She's not as cheerful as she was in her first series. I could also go with her making the speech because she lost her whole planet again so seeing that humans ruined their plant was a sore subject for her. 

[Eulipian 5k]

Some posters got a "Martha Jones vibe" from Bella, so did I; (Heh, some were cautious because of the "No we don't all look alike or know each other!" backlash, LOL. I was "Whoa, Martha's got another "cousin"."

Edited January 16, 2020 by Eulipian 5k

[DoctorAtomic]

20 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I do like that they are keeping the Doctor's new attitude and shorter fuse carried over from the last episodes. She's not as cheerful as she was in her first series. I could also go with her making the speech because she lost her whole planet again so seeing that humans ruined their plant was a sore subject for her. 

I'm not totally done with the episode, but I liked cranky Thirteen as she burst into the control room and started chewing out the chief there. I never saw much of One, but I understand he could be crabby. 

I have zero issues with 'message' episodes either. It's very much not new to the show. I mean, the Doctor has been consistently anti-gun, and Nine with Dalek was heavy on the theme and it was a handful of episodes into the modern run. 

[Wulfsige]

If reality...that is, the current state of the planet with its levels of pollution in the air, in water, in food, the depletion of useable soil worldwide, the mass extinction of birds, animals, and insects, the wildfires, floods, the melting polar caps, the rising sea levels...doesn’t get a reaction from governments and commerce, neither will a character preaching on a television show that’s set however many millennia into the future. They might have been able to deliver a bit of a gut punch if they had showed horror, and then left it as a horror story, without stopping to talk about it. To have a character standing around pontificating stops the impetus of the story and removes the urgency. That was weak writing, but maybe they were going for a ‘That’s right, Doc! You tell ’em, Doc! You tell those dumbass Climate Change Deniers off real good!”  

Worse was the grown-ass woman who feels justified in mass murder because...her mother handed her off to the father to raise? Granted, we’re never told why mom never made any attempt to explain or communicate, but surely being raised by a single parent or a person other than one’s nurturing birth mother, isn’t that strange of a concept, no matter what time period in history we’re in?

 

[kieyra]

Yep, Bella was a misfire, and that was a waste of Laura Fraser (Lydia from Breaking Bad!), whose character was a cipher until the left field “I’m doing this all for the daughter I abandoned anyway!” explanation. If you can call it that. 

That said, I’ve always (as an American fan of scripted dramas) considered Doctor Who to be a somewhat corny kid’s show. I’ve missed whole seasons of New Who because it doesn’t always capture my attention. But I’m enjoying this new incarnation, and I’m fine with them reminding people that people like Ada Lovelace existed, oh and that by the way the planet is on fire. I don’t expect Emmy/BAFTA winning writing in the process. 

There are plenty of fully nihilistic, cynical shows out there. Some of them are beautifully written.

Edited January 17, 2020 by kieyra

[Prower]

11 hours ago, eliot90000 said:

Not the same kinds of complaints and not nearly the same thing.

How very specific! What exactly are all the super sexist complaints that are completely new?

[John Potts]

I managed to miss this last Sunday and only caught up today... almost sorry I bothered. This was just bad. I have no problem with "Base Under Siege" episodes (my favourite all time serial is The Robots of Death, which is exactly that) or message episodes - so long as they're well written. I couldn't bring myself to care about any of the characters and it didn't seem like the writer wanted us to - there was way too much purposeless running around ("We have to get to the bus!" "The bus isn't safe, we have to go outside!" "Outside isn't safe, we have to get back to the bus!" "Back to the base!") when they could have introducing us to the redshirts before their inevitable demise so we actually care when they inevitably die, but I was almost on the side of the monsters because the humans all seemed designed to be annoying (idiot dad, ecoterrorist, senile(?) old woman). I did think it might turn out the resort was built at Chernobyl what with the Cyrillic writing and the polluted environment*, but I guess it was just all of Earth (so where did all the humans come from? Wouldn't Earth be something of a tourist trap if humanity spread across the stars?)

* Even if the actual area around Chernobyl is something of a nature reserve as humans don't go there, but I could accept that as an acceptable break from reality, along with mutated nuclear monsters

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Rotten Tomatoes has Doctor Who  Season 12 audience rating up at 16% compared to 8% from last week !

[DoctorAtomic]

I didn't really find the ending monologue to be much of a lecture. It barely lasted 2 minutes. If anything, it was very classic Doctor - inspiring companions to be more. That's always been what show is for me. Now, I don't like the NuWho ending for companions much at all; except for Martha, it's been largely tragic. So I'm hoping if they're keeping in line with One that they will all be able to go off into the world with the courage they've gained to do better.

[John Potts]

Can I just say, I'd almost prefer it if we had a "Doctor on holiday" episode where nothing happened. The Doctor could spend the entire episode poking into a mystery that simply isn't there (or maybe uncovering something completely mundane, like minor corruption on the part of the management) while everyone else tells her just to relax. It might work, because everyone watching will be sure that the Doctor is right and are waiting for the other shoe to drop... but it never comes.

Hey, I'm not saying it would be a good episode, but it could hardly be worse!

[truther]

Just watched it, and agree with many of the excellent points made by others.  The ep was a good idea poorly executed.  It had way too many flaws, holes, and WTF moments for what should be a polished product.  A few random thoughts:

1. There aren't numerous potential timelines for future Earth.  There just aren't.  (See, e.g., Great and Bountiful Human Empire.)  The show could easily have solved this by simply making Orphan 55 another planet.  The idea of "orphan planets" is depressing enough and people will easily get the idea.

2. When you want to visualize a lack of oxygen, don't have fires burning in the background as your main character starts to gasp for air.  The show should have had those fires go out -- would have been much more dramatic and actually, you know, shown a lack of oxygen.  

2a. Likewise, when you want to visualize your planet being a toxic wasteland, don't have your heroes emerge into a landscape with trees in the background.  

3. When you want to blow up a hotel full of innocent people, simply because your mom like abandoned you or something, you are a homicidal psychopath and not a good person.

4. The body count is way too high.  Background people are getting killed off almost for lack of anything better to do and none of the main characters seem to care.  It was really weird to watch all the hotel characters turn to red dots one after the other, and then to see Benni get caught behind, only for Graham then to rush around looking for Ryan.  

Like some others, I actually still like this show and like the new Doctor.  But these stories are just dumb, and it seems like they could be vastly improved with just a little bit of extra effort.  And given that the show took all of 2019 off that's not much to ask -- seems they've had the time to get things right.  If this is the best they can do . . . .

[WatchrTina]

On 1/16/2020 at 2:39 PM, Wulfsige said:

Worse was the grown-ass woman who feels justified in mass murder because...her mother handed her off to the father to raise?

This.  So much.

The episode was just badly written.  I'm going to try to forget it and hope for better things to come.

[Bruinsfan]

On 1/18/2020 at 7:18 AM, John Potts said:

Can I just say, I'd almost prefer it if we had a "Doctor on holiday" episode where nothing happened. The Doctor could spend the entire episode poking into a mystery that simply isn't there (or maybe uncovering something completely mundane, like minor corruption on the part of the management) while everyone else tells her just to relax. It might work, because everyone watching will be sure that the Doctor is right and are waiting for the other shoe to drop... but it never comes.

Oh, I'd love that! It might also give the time for some interactions that would round out the companions, particularly Yaz.

[benteen]

Terrible episode.  A disappointment considering how good the first two episodes were  It was in the vain of an RTD-episode (future Earth, doomed guest couple) but unlike the first two episodes, just wasn't any good.

The episode was rushed and frantic, as were the guest actors who were barely developed.  This episode was DROWNED in exposition from The Doctor, which has become a persistent problem in this new regime.  It was one-dimensional preachy and political, resembling the Jordan Peele Twilight Zone and that is NOT a show you want to compared with.

[snarktini]

On 1/13/2020 at 1:57 PM, DanaK said:

The Tardis team was also stupid in agreeing to go on the vacation in the first place without looking into it first; maybe they assumed Graham already had. But all that was cut short when Graham accidentally put the teleport cube together and whisked them away

The team never got a chance to agree! Graham collected the coupons on his own, then told them he won a trip and assembled the cube inside of maybe 30 seconds? By the time the Doctor realized what it was and yelled at him to stop, it was too late.

I quit during Capaldi's run -- didn't connect with his Doctor (or Bill) AT ALL. Came back for this Doctor and she's fine and I like the companions. The characters all work for me, but the stories don't. I used to love love this show. I'm not sure if I've changed or it has. (TBF it could be me. My interest in wacky space TV does seem to have gone down.)

[DanaK]

https://cultbox.co.uk/news/doctor-who-orphan-55-behind-the-scenes

FYI, the above Cultbox article talks about the location shooting for the episode. It was filmed in Tenerife, in the Canary Islands. For the desolate landscape, the cast and crew filmed around the volcano Mount Teide. For the resort building, the production moved to Santa Cruz, Tenerife to film the Auditorio de Tenerife

[DanaK]

Catching up on the ratings:

Overnight was 4.19 million viewers

Consolidated (overnights, 7+ days, 4 screens and such): 5.38 million viewers

Appreciation Index: 77

25th most watched program for the week