Black Widow (2020)

[Jediknight]

4 hours ago, stealinghome said:

The villains were a huge dud. I never felt Dreykov was actually any sort of threat at all and Taskmaster wasn’t interesting.

I don't think that Dreykov was supposed to be a big threat.  He's a coward and weakling, his only power comes from the Widows.  Without his mind control, he's useless, he's a pathetic worm.  But thanks to his mind control and scientific mind, he got power.  The Widows under his control were the threat, he was nothing.

[Grimnar]

1 hour ago, Jediknight said:

I don't think that Dreykov was supposed to be a big threat.  He's a coward and weakling, his only power comes from the Widows.  Without his mind control, he's useless, he's a pathetic worm.  But thanks to his mind control and scientific mind, he got power.  The Widows under his control were the threat, he was nothing.

I think it is not that he was supposed to be big threat(that happened when he suddenly announced that he can control/destroy world). To me he wasn't seem memorable enough. He is probably one of the weakest villain in MCU.

[Grimnar]

17 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

If Shield sanctioned missions involve blowing up buildings with kids in them and calling it coletaral damage just to get one evil guy, then I would say every Shield agent, has red in their ledger, even the non-Hydra ones. And now I wish I had seen those kind of Agents on AoS, not the watered down version we got.

Yeah, it was strange if you take into account that Nat said in CA:WS that she thought that she is doing good when she defected to SHIELD. But here you have SHIELD ok with killing innocent people.

In one comment I read, was said that they kind of glossed over Nat's regrets. Natasha sacrificed Dreykov's daughter as collateral damage which kind of cheapened that Taskmaster had legitimte reason to go after Nat but it end that she was controled. She left Yelena and thought that she was just ok. They could show some resentment from Yelena regarding this.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Grimnar said:

Yeah, it was strange if you take into account that Nat said in CA:WS that she thought that she is doing good when she defected to SHIELD. But here you have SHIELD ok with killing innocent people.

There's never been much reason to not present SHIELD as more shadowy than they have. Even the milder stuff like Fury sending Natasha along with Steve in CA:WS to collect HYDRA data was something Cap displayed annoyance over, and Nick pointed out that he sent her because she was comfortable with such things and Rogers wasn't. Setting bombs should have been the least of it, but I can see where they'd want to draw a bright line between the good guys and bad guys.

As for Yelena, she specifically says that "the best part of my life was fake." She even makes some crack about not being on the cover of a magazine. I'm pretty sure Natasha was never a cover story in Time or anything like that, but Stark and Rogers were definitely public figures who didn't have to exist in the shadows. Natasha did leave her behind, but the argument could be made that she was lying to herself in thinking Yelena was okay. As far as she knew, she'd ended Dreykov and put the Red Room to an end, it just turned out that she was wrong.

[Sakura12]

Yelena's story is really sad. If she spent 3 years living in Ohio. She was what 6 when they had to leave. Would a 3-6 year old know her family was fake? 

[Raja]

13 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

 

As for Yelena, she specifically says that "the best part of my life was fake." She even makes some crack about not being on the cover of a magazine. I'm pretty sure Natasha was never a cover story in Time or anything like that, but Stark and Rogers were definitely public figures who didn't have to exist in the shadows. Natasha did leave her behind, but the argument could be made that she was lying to herself in thinking Yelena was okay. As far as she knew, she'd ended Dreykov and put the Red Room to an end, it just turned out that she was wrong.

While she wasn't the first super soldier from the newsreels, the richest man in the world or the space god whom the Russians assumed would come down to avenge her should she fall she did have that one big covergirl moment of her own. The congressional hearings after she wikileaked the S.H.I.E.L.D. secrets after the Triskellion was destroyed in The Winter Soldier

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, Grimnar said:

Yeah, it was strange if you take into account that Nat said in CA:WS that she thought that she is doing good when she defected to SHIELD. But here you have SHIELD ok with killing innocent people.

I can definitely see Natasha thinking of good as a relative term. Like sure it is not good to blow up buildings for most people, but in her life it had a good result (she thought) and it was better than whatever she was doing when she was part of the widow program. Combine that with lying to her self and it probably makes sense.

3 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Yelena's story is really sad. If she spent 3 years living in Ohio. She was what 6 when they had to leave. Would a 3-6 year old know her family was fake? 

It was pretty sad. I did like though how when she became free of the mind control her attitude was how she was more anger and being tired of all the bullshit. I mean I like Bucky's story, but I am glad we didn't get a repeat of his angst and depression over what he did as WS.

[paigow]

Dreykov never really paid the Widows, but he certainly gave them recognition...

Best Child Assassin Ever

[dwmarch]

I saw Black Widow a day early because Canada is weird like that. Great movie but I expected no less from Marvel/Disney.

I am a little disappointed that there was no scene where Natasha pops up on Vormir after the Soul Stone is returned. Do you not get your deposit back on that thing?

Interesting choice to have a villain who looks like Harvey Weinstein but who wasn't a complete creep. You could take it as implied that he was using his Widows for gratification but we never actually see it in the movie.

Taskmaster was a good choice for a villain this time around but it would have been comical to see Taskmaster fighting Thor or the Hulk or any other powered hero where copying their movies won't get you anywhere.

[phalange]

Good to be seeing a Marvel movie in theaters again. It definitely shouldn't have taken so long for a Black Widow movie, but I do like that it filled in some of the events post CA:CW and that we see Natasha at the end off to help break everyone out of the Raft. Also that it gave context to all the comments about Budapest in the previous movies.

Poor Yelena during that scene at the table listening to everyone saying the best part of her life was fake. But I loved Alexei singing "American Pie" to her to show that he really does care about her. Her teasing Natasha about her superhero landing, then doing it herself and being disgusted by it was hilarious. And I very much relate to her appreciation of clothes with pockets. 

I'm glad that everyone actually survived the destruction of the Red Room. I wasn't sure Alexei and Melina would. I wonder if this was the last time Nat actually saw all of them before she died. 

The post-credits scene seems to be setting up Yelena as the new Black Widow, which I'm looking forward to. I can't imagine most people actually think Clint was at fault for Natasha's death, so Yelena is being manipulated into going after him which'll be interesting. 

[tv echo]

Exciting | Marvel Studios’ Black Widow
Marvel Entertainment   Jul 13, 2021

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by tv echo

[Ohiopirate02]

7 hours ago, phalange said:

The post-credits scene seems to be setting up Yelena as the new Black Widow, which I'm looking forward to. I can't imagine most people actually think Clint was at fault for Natasha's death, so Yelena is being manipulated into going after him which'll be interesting. 

I like Val manipulating Yelena about Clint and what when down on Vormir.  We know that Natasha sacrificed herself, but the only person in the MCU Earth who knows that is Clint.  I find this a great piece of writing that moves the plot forward for both the new Hawkeye show and the MCU.  And with the way Endgame wrapped up, we don't know if everyone who survived the final battle believes Clint.  Rhodey was there with Natasha and knew what Clint got up to during those 5 years; Banner bowed out of the Avengers and became Professor Hulk, but he also loved Natasha.  Does he hold Clint responsible for her death, or does he understand?  

[Raja]

34 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I like Val manipulating Yelena about Clint and what when down on Vormir.  We know that Natasha sacrificed herself, but the only person in the MCU Earth who knows that is Clint.  I find this a great piece of writing that moves the plot forward for both the new Hawkeye show and the MCU.  And with the way Endgame wrapped up, we don't know if everyone who survived the final battle believes Clint.  Rhodey was there with Natasha and knew what Clint got up to during those 5 years; Banner bowed out of the Avengers and became Professor Hulk, but he also loved Natasha.  Does he hold Clint responsible for her death, or does he understand?  

Colonel Rhodes is also a soldier disabled in battle. He along with Captain Rogers knows better than the rest that when folks other than unnamed Asgardians and Wakandan's go into battle some will not come back. 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Raja

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, Raja said:

Colonel Rhodes is also a soldier disabled in battle. He along with Captain Rogers knows better than the rest that when folks other than unnamed Asgardians and Wakandan's go into battle some will not come back. 

He also saw the anguish in Natasha as her friend went off the deep end.  He was the one who saw the carnage left by Clint in Mexico.  Yes, he knows that not everyone comes back, but that doesn't mean he would completely buy Clint's story.  A soldier who fought in battle would also know that once a man goes into as dark of a place as Clint did, they lose so much of themselves that killing someone they love can happen.  

[Raja]

On 7/10/2021 at 9:10 AM, shantown said:

As someone who's only seen about half the Marvel movies (and only 1 of the 3 tv shows), I probably missed a lot of history/easter eggs/etc in Black Widow, but I really enjoyed it and didn't feel like I was missing out an anything big by having missed any of the films it referenced. I thought the family dynamic was the best part of the movie, there was such a dry humor and I laughed out loud at several parts: "It still fits," "I am clearly injured," "I did a good job too." There were a lot of good action sequences but as a wimp, a few too many bone-breaking scenes for me. I really enjoyed it, even though I'm a little salty about Nat finally getting a solo movie when she's already dead in-universe. 

Agreed that Florence Pugh was the best part of this movie ("Why do you do that, with your hair? Poser.") but I thought it was a nice sendoff for Scarlett Johansson.

I think that the credit Red Room sequence and Yelana snapping about her hysterectomy by itself really undersold the horror of what Natasha and presumably Melina did for Russia  before the total brain washing technology came for the little sisters. You would only see Widows doing a gun kata and then being just another SWAT team only without wearing combat helmets or a S.W.A.T. or S.H.I.E.L.D. patch on their armor.

Those stories are more filled out on Agent Carter and knowing how Natasha infiltrated and got close to her targets, even for S.H.I.E.L.D. as a spy rather than assassin from her earlier appearances.

[anna0852]

7 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

He also saw the anguish in Natasha as her friend went off the deep end.  He was the one who saw the carnage left by Clint in Mexico.  Yes, he knows that not everyone comes back, but that doesn't mean he would completely buy Clint's story.  A soldier who fought in battle would also know that once a man goes into as dark of a place as Clint did, they lose so much of themselves that killing someone they love can happen.  

We saw Rhoady embrace Clint and tell him to stay safe when the teams split up on Morag. I don't think he'd believe that Clint killed Nat.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

9 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

We saw Rhoady embrace Clint and tell him to stay safe when the teams split up on Morag. I don't think he'd believe that Clint killed Nat.

And really, you could just as easily point at Nebula, who at the least knew that Thanos went to Vormir with Gamora and came back without her. Yeah, Clint went off the deep end when his family got dusted, but wasn't Rhodey there when he returned alone and tearfully said, "It should have been me?"

[tv echo]

‘Black Widow’ Captures Record Tuesday At Domestic Pandemic B.O.; MCU Title Expected To Reign Over ‘Space Jam 2’ – Update
By Anthony D'Alessandro   July 14, 2021
https://deadline.com/2021/07/black-widow-monday-box-office-second-weekend-1234792134/ 

Quote

Wednesday Update: after Tuesday update After posting a record domestic opening during the pandemic of $80.3 million, Disney/Marvel’s Black Widow went on to gross the best non-holiday Monday with $7.16M during the Covid era, and now a record Tuesday of $7.6M.

Black Widow‘s Tuesday is 17% ahead of F9‘s first Tuesday ($6.5M) which held the previous record for the day during the pandemic.

Paramount’s A Quiet Place Part II easily owns the best Monday during the pandemic at $9.54M, but that was on Memorial Day. Through five days, Black Widow‘s running stateside cume stands at $95.1M, currently booked at 4,160 theaters.

Analyst: 'Black Widow's' streaming success spells 'big trouble' for theater chains
Alexandra Canal     July 13, 2021
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-black-widows-streaming-success-spells-big-trouble-for-theater-chains-were-never-going-back-analyst-warns-144341187.html 

Quote

"This is a watershed moment for the industry," LightShed Partners Rich Greenfield told Yahoo Finance in a recent interview. He suggested movie studios are "becoming more powerful" in the wake of COVID-19, as the focus shifts from box office exclusives to hybrid releases on streaming platforms. 

"[Studios] don't need the theaters as much as they used to. Do they still want theaters? Sure. Do they make money on theaters? Absolutely. It's a good business [and] movie theaters will be around for a very long time," Greenfield said. 

"But the leverage in the relationship is shifting towards the movie studio, and they're realizing that they can generate a lot of money directly to consumer," he continued. 

Studios that release films directly to platforms — Disney to Disney+, Warner Bros. to HBO Max — keep a significant portion of the revenues (about 80%) whereas a theatrical release is often split with theater chains, Greenfield explained. 
*  *  *
While "Black Widow's" box office success is still a positive outcome for cinema chains like AMC (AMC), IMAX (IMAX) and Cinemark (CNK), many analysts believe that the streaming threat is a significant hurdle. 

"The theater chains are in deep trouble. I mean deep, deep trouble," LightShed's Greenfield warned. 
*  *  *
Overall, Greenfield notes that although movie theaters will continue to exist "they're going to be a lot less profitable and a lot smaller business than they are today."

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by tv echo

[Raja]

Are they trying to hard, or the press is starved for any content? Record pandemic Tuesday box office. It is starting to sound like TV promos where every show is number 1 in its category just before the networks give the early cancellation notice

[ICantDoThatDave]

Highest grossing movie ever!!!  *

 

* for a Tuesday in the middle of July while coming out of a pandemic & starring someone named Scarlett

[tv echo]

Kevin Feige's interview starts at around the 17:20 mark...

D23 Inside Disney Episode 96 | Kevin Feige on Black Widow
JULY 15, 2021
https://d23.com/podcast/d23-inside-disney-episode-96/ 

-- Kevin Feige said that they've been talking about doing a Black Widow standalone movie for about 10 years. He also said that if they had made this movie 10 years ago, it wouldn't have been the same movie and it wouldn't have been as "special."

-- He said that "finding a family and losing a family is at the heart" of this movie. Natasha had a family unit as a child, then she had the SHIELD family, and then she had the Avengers family.

-- He said that going to the theater is a shared, community experience for movies like Black Widow, where the audience goes on "a journey together," laughing, cheering, etc. together.

-- He said that Yelena (Florence Pugh) has "her own voice" and is a "remarkable addition" to the MCU. He added that Yelena will be trying to carry on Natasha's legacy "in her own way" and "with her own voice."

-- When asked about whether we'll see the characters played by Rachel Weisz and David Harbor again in the MCU, Kevin said that it's always the "intention" that, when great characters and great actors come into the MCU, if everyone had "a great time," then audiences will want to see them again. So he said that it's a "safe bet" they'll want to make that happen. .

-- When they had to change the release schedule for their series and movies due to COVID, he said that it didn't matter because they're all standalone projects. The only real change was the introduction of Valentina Allegra de Fontaine (played by Julia Louis-Dreyfus), who was was originally supposed to debut in Black Widow but now debuted in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

-- When asked about Valentina Allegra de Fontaine's apparent efforts to build a team, Kevin Feige: "She's doing something. Yes, she is. She seems - she's in a recruitment mode. Do they - does Yelena already work for her? They seem to have a connection at that point. Yes. And the future is bright for the MCU because Julia is in it. We are gigantic fans of her at Marvel. We had a general meeting with her many years ago where Louis D'Esposito and I really just geeked out that we were even meeting her, because she's such an icon and we're very big Seinfeld nerds at Marvel Studios. So the notion of bringing her into the world was always something - if we could find the right thing, was something we wanted to to. And when this role came about and the opportunity to have her in Widow, in Falcon, and maybe in some other things coming up, she was totally on board and really into it. So it's an amazing addition to the world and I look forward to people being surprised at just where she'll show up next."

-- When asked whether Yelena will be showing up in the Hawkeye series, Kevin Feige: "I will say, it is our great hope - as I said before with Rachel and David Harbor, that Florence will have future appearances in the MCU. Where and when will be up to the viewers to see, when it happens."

-- Kevin said that it was a total coincidence that June 2 is his birthday and also Ralph's birthday in WandaVision.

-- When asked about coordinating the movies and Disney+ series, Kevin said that they have a team and that "one person is totally dedicated, full-time, to each project," and they also have "interconnect meetings" quite often. Also, he, Louis D'Esposito and Victoria Alonso "bounce between all of those." Sometimes something will come up and they'll need to change something, "but never to the detriment of the individual projects."

-- Kevin Feige: "The Multiverse is coming up in a big way, so there's interconnectivity there that people have already started to see and suss out. And I had a meeting this morning with the whole broad Marvel Studios team, going through the Multiverse and the rules of the Multiverse, and exactly how to really deliver on the excitement surrounding the Multiverse. Because, like so much with Marvel, that is a topic - when we first had Sam Jackson appear in a cameo at the end of Iron Man, I really thought it would be a small group - relatively small group of people that were excited by that, and we'd have to then educate a broader public about what that meant and who Nick Fury was. But almost instantly, if you remember, way back to the Summer of 2008, it ignited really everyone's imagination. And in the same way, the Multiverse is really something that we geek out about and really love all the storytelling potential it brings, but thought we really had to slowly dole out what it was, in introducing the conceit, even briefly in Doctor Strange, and then as a fake-out in Spider-Man: Far From Home. But I will tell you something, it is more than just fans who are following along with the Multiverse storyline. It's really quite exciting to see it, even midway through the Loki series now, as people respond to the possibilities."

-- When asked whether we'll see Kathryn Hahn as Agatha again in the Multiverse, Kevin gave the same answer that he gave with respect to Rachel Weisz and David Harbor: "Great actor. Great [audience] response. Why wouldn't you want to work with Kathryn Hahn again? We do want to." He also said that he wasn't surprised at how great she was as Agatha, but he thought it was "wonderful" how her performance and the "Agatha All Along" song popped.

-- When asked how Emily VanCamp's character will fit into the future of the MCU, Kevin Feige: "Well, the Power Broker has been revealed - and what was fun about that, again, Emily's a spectacular actor and we hadn't seen her in a long time. She got the short end of the stick when it came to the events of Civil War and was sort of left out in the cold. And it's interesting what she did with that. How she evolves and where she goes, obviously, remains to be seen. But the response to Madripoor and to her as the Power Broker was great."

Sister Sister Featurette | Marvel Studios’ Black Widow
Marvel Entertainment   Jul 15, 2021

Lorne Balfe - Natasha's Lullaby (From "Black Widow")
MarvelMusicVEVO    Jul 16, 2021

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Hair ties and no heels: The evolution of female superhero costumes is finally here
By Sydney Bucksbaum   July 16, 2021
https://ew.com/movies/costume-designers-evolving-female-comic-book-characters-black-widow-loki/ 

Quote

... When Black Widow finally debuted this month after years of anticipation and a seemingly endless pandemic delay, Scarlett Johansson's solo film undid more than a decade of the Marvel Cinematic Universe's only original female Avenger's scattershot and over-sexualized appearances. In one of the first scenes in which the adult version of Natasha is shown on screen, she dumps her form-fitting Black Widow suit and dons baggy sweatpants and a puffy winter coat as she goes on the run. After eight previous MCU film appearances in which she was constantly put in tight, revealing clothing, it felt revolutionary to see Natasha choosing something for comfort and function. And that continued throughout the film.

Black Widow costume designer Jany Temime tells EW that a lot of those decisions came straight from Johansson herself. "Because that was her film, and she could choose," Temime says. During one of the initial fittings for the film, she brought Johansson racks of clothes from which to pick Natasha's wardrobe, and she wondered if the actress would choose "something more fashionable, more feminine," but she was surprised at how Johansson went right for the more basic but sturdy pants, shirts, and jackets.

"She picked up a look which was absolutely perfect for somebody who doesn't want people to think that she cares about the way she looks; nothing that screamed fashion, and nothing was planned to make her look sexy," Temime says. "She doesn't need to sell that. She always went for something which was simple and well-made and that she could move beautifully in, not representing a fashion-conscious girl but somebody who is feeling wonderful in her own skin."
*  *  *
Temime's main goal in designing the costumes for Black Widow always came back to making everything comfortable so the actresses could do their job without thinking about what they were wearing. And she was proud that she was able to accomplish that throughout the movie, for Natasha especially. "I think that was the difference with the other [MCU] films, that it was dressing the character and not the woman," Temime says. "I was dressing Black Widow for what she is at the end, as an Avenger, as somebody who doesn't have to sell herself anymore. She knows what she is, she has such great value, she has great power. And she just wants to be comfortable in her own skin."

That also meant any notion of putting her in high heels was nixed from the very beginning. "Actually, she refused to wear heels," Temime says of Johansson. "Always in the other [films] she was wearing heels on the boots, and she decided this year to not do that. She said, 'This is really uncomfortable and silly. I don't see why, because I'm a female character, I should wear heels. That's ridiculous. It's just an action-y role and I would wear something flat.'" Temime agreed, happy to finally "move on from 'the woman should wear heels' cliche and go into something much more realistic."

Natasha and her long-lost Russian assassin faux-sister, Yelena (Florence Pugh), spend all of Black Widow running around in flat-soled combat boots, not a wedge or high heel to be found. And the thoughtful updates were present from the ground up. Temime explains that while Natasha had a special white Black Widow suit made for her as "an American superhero," Yelena simply found her white mission suit on the plane, so it's not form-fitting. But more importantly, it does the job for which she needs it. "She was happy to find the right size, but that was the idea — it's more baggy, the fabric is different," Temime adds. "Her sister's white suit is American, Yelena's white suit is Russian, so it's much more utilitarian-looking. Her sister is a superhero, while Yelena's suit is a military sort of white suit. It's appropriate for missions in the snow. I just wanted to keep it functional."
*  *  *
And then came Black Widow's hair-tie moment of its own. In a breakout scene that might again feel like a few throwaway lines of funny dialogue, Yelena opines to Natasha about how much she loves her green army vest, the first item of clothing she ever bought for herself after escaping the Red Room's lifelong mind control. But more importantly, she explains that she loves it because it has pockets. Lots of pockets. Lots of handy pockets. (The joys of finding an item of clothing with pockets: Extremely relatable!)

Temime was given the mandate to include the green vest in Yelena's wardrobe from director Cate Shortland as a way to create an emotional link between Avengers: Infinity War (in which Natasha wears the vest over her black mission suit) and Black Widow, and she was thrilled to build out the rest of Yelena's outfits in the same militaristic style because of what it meant to the character. "That little green vest was so functional and utilitarian, lots of pockets; it's something that she buys because of the practical effect of it, and that was the idea of all her costumes," she says. "Yelena was in a sort of institution, a training camp, for so many years, and she never bought something for herself, so it's completely normal that when she comes out of that brainwashing, training, military camp that she doesn't know anything about fashion, so what she will buy for herself will be practical, like she explained so sweetly."

Where lesser films might have put the new face of the Black Widow franchise in "sexier," more fashionable, or trendier clothes, Yelena was put in pieces that made sense for her background as a young woman who was only trained to be a Russian assassin. "She had too much brainwashing about being a killing machine, so it would be very strange if she would have chosen something feminine," Temime says. "I gave her trousers, a pair of boots which are also like military boots, and I give her a very oversized blazer… like a men's jacket. I really wanted to accentuate that side of her: She is a no-bulls--- girl and she wants to show that. She is strong and a kick-ass girl, and she wants to show that."

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by tv echo

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

Hair ties and no heels: The evolution of female superhero costumes is finally here

That was a good article. One of the most ridiculous things about Captain America Winter Soldier is at the end. Natasha goes to Shield HQ for the final battle. But she is in disguise and wear a woman's business suit. But then after everything goes down she is on the helicopter with Fury, and she is wearing her usual zip up, super tight BW outfit. Which means some how after escaping the bad guy, and with all the shit going down, she still managed to find time to change clothes before getting the helicopter going. Even though she didn't fight anyone in the BW clothes.

[Grimnar]

20 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

That was a good article. One of the most ridiculous things about Captain America Winter Soldier is at the end. Natasha goes to Shield HQ for the final battle. But she is in disguise and wear a woman's business suit. But then after everything goes down she is on the helicopter with Fury, and she is wearing her usual zip up, super tight BW outfit. Which means some how after escaping the bad guy, and with all the shit going down, she still managed to find time to change clothes before getting the helicopter going. Even though she didn't fight anyone in the BW clothes.

I wouldn't loose time with inconsistencies or weird things in Marvel movies especially. I mean how their plan to switch Melina and Natasha in BW could work when Natasha is visibly smaller then Melina. Or why experienced agent as Natasha decided to change her looks at the end of the movie, etc. 

[kiddo82]

It looked like she was about to dye her hair in the mobile home when her generator crapped out.  Then the shit with Taskmaster went down on the bridge setting off the next act.

[Grimnar]

6 minutes ago, kiddo82 said:

It looked like she was about to dye her hair in the mobile home when her generator crapped out.  Then the shit with Taskmaster went down on the bridge setting off the next act.

yes, there was this scene but really, they couldn't have blond Natasha at least for half of the movie or at least to have Natasha to be more careful and not just enjoy beer in pub and openly talking about being avenger in public when she is fugitive?

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

That was a good article. One of the most ridiculous things about Captain America Winter Soldier is at the end. Natasha goes to Shield HQ for the final battle. But she is in disguise and wear a woman's business suit. But then after everything goes down she is on the helicopter with Fury, and she is wearing her usual zip up, super tight BW outfit. Which means some how after escaping the bad guy, and with all the shit going down, she still managed to find time to change clothes before getting the helicopter going. Even though she didn't fight anyone in the BW clothes.

Natasha's styling has always been ridiculous.  I still can't get over Iron Man 2 when Nat changes her outfit in the car and for some reason known only to men she takes her hair down to fight.  Long flowing hair is a liability when fighting.  Not only is it hot, it can impede vison, and it gives your assailant something to grab.  It was nice to see Natasha get a haircut for the rest of her appearances, but again, she never pulls it off of her face when fighting.  Thor gets a half-ponytail, but Nat's hair is always loose.  

[Jenniferbug]

43 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Natasha's styling has always been ridiculous.  I still can't get over Iron Man 2 when Nat changes her outfit in the car and for some reason known only to men she takes her hair down to fight.  Long flowing hair is a liability when fighting.  Not only is it hot, it can impede vison, and it gives your assailant something to grab.  It was nice to see Natasha get a haircut for the rest of her appearances, but again, she never pulls it off of her face when fighting.  Thor gets a half-ponytail, but Nat's hair is always loose.  

I complain about this all the time. It's ridiculous. I was so excited when Sylvie pulled her hair back in an episode of Loki because it almost never happens in these movies/shows. 

[Kel Varnsen]

4 hours ago, Grimnar said:

I wouldn't loose time with inconsistencies or weird things in Marvel movies especially. I mean how their plan to switch Melina and Natasha in BW could work when Natasha is visibly smaller then Melina. Or why experienced agent as Natasha decided to change her looks at the end of the movie, etc. 

I didn't lose any time thinking about it. I just think it is funny and WS is still my favourite MCU movie. Just based on that article I think it seems funny how someone probably said that Scarlett Johansson needed to be in the Black Widow suit at the end of the movie, because she looks hot in it, even if it makes no sense.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I didn't lose any time thinking about it. I just think it is funny and WS is still my favourite MCU movie. Just based on that article I think it seems funny how someone probably said that Scarlett Johansson needed to be in the Black Widow suit at the end of the movie, because she looks hot in it, even if it makes no sense.

Captain Rogers said to go to war in uniform 

[paigow]

On 7/16/2021 at 4:09 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

 Long flowing hair is a liability when fighting.

Ballerina bun cannot be whipped for superhero pose.

[tv echo]

New Team | Marvel Studios’ Black Widow
Marvel Entertainment   Jul 17, 2021

 

[VCRTracking]

My take is it's a very good Phase One movie that would have been one of the best IMO if it actually came out during Phase One.

[cambridgeguy]

On 7/16/2021 at 8:41 PM, Raja said:

Captain Rogers said to go to war in uniform 

But remember, head protection is optional and should always be taken off whenever you want to say something or just make a face.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

But remember, head protection is optional and should always be taken off whenever you want to say something or just make a face.

"My suit is good."

"Old tech. Functional, but old. 'People are shooting at me - let me put my helmet on!' "

[Spaceman Spiff]

On 7/14/2021 at 5:22 PM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

And really, you could just as easily point at Nebula, who at the least knew that Thanos went to Vormir with Gamora and came back without her. Yeah, Clint went off the deep end when his family got dusted, but wasn't Rhodey there when he returned alone and tearfully said, "It should have been me?"

Plus the fact that during this movie we often heard Yelana saying "This would be a sucky death". So I would think, that she would think, saving half the universe is a good honorable death and wouldn't be looking to place blame anywhere.

I actually texted my nephew after the movie was over to ask what the hell that end credit scene was about. When Nat died half the population was gone, and none of it knew what the Avengers were attempting, and when all was said and done I doubt they did a full disclosure of all that went down. So why was Valentina blaming Clint for Nat's death.

Upon waking this morning the only thing I can come up with is Valentina is saying, Clint recruited Nat into Shield, which led to her joining the Avengers, which led to her death protecting the universe.?? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[tv echo]

BLACK WIDOW: Theaters Blame Disney+ Release For The Movie's Disappointing Second Weekend Box Office Haul
Josh Wilding   July 19, 2021
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/black_widow/black-widow-theaters-blame-disney-release-for-the-movies-disappointing-second-weekend-box-office-haul-a186530#gs.6amil0 

Quote

Black Widow opened to big numbers last weekend, with Disney touting impressive box office numbers and an impressive haul from Disney+'s $29.99 Premier Access service. However, NATO (National Association of Theatre Owners) have now issued a statement making their unhappiness clear.

This was to be expected, especially when they have a vested financial interest in keeping theaters open and as profitable as possible. However, after a major 69% decline in box office takings this weekend, the organisation argues that "Despite assertions that this pandemic-era improvised release strategy was a success for Disney and the simultaneous release model, it demonstrates that an exclusive theatrical release means more revenue for all stakeholders in every cycle of the movie’s life."

"Piracy no doubt further affected Black Widow’s performance, and will affect its future performance in international markets where it has yet to open," they note, adding: "The many questions raised by Disney’s limited release of streaming data opening weekend are being rapidly answered by ‘Black Widow’s’ disappointing and anomalous performance. The most important answer is that simultaneous release is a pandemic-era artifact that should be left to history with the pandemic."

While it's true that piracy has been an issue for Black Widow, the pandemic is far from history no matter what NATO would like to think. The Marvel Studios movie probably would have had a much larger opening and second weekend had it received an exclusive theatrical release, but many people remain uncomfortable with heading to their local multiplex in the current climate. 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by tv echo

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Plus the fact that during this movie we often heard Yelana saying "This would be a sucky death". So I would think, that she would think, saving half the universe is a good honorable death and wouldn't be looking to place blame anywhere.

I actually texted my nephew after the movie was over to ask what the hell that end credit scene was about. When Nat died half the population was gone, and none of it knew what the Avengers were attempting, and when all was said and done I doubt they did a full disclosure of all that went down. So why was Valentina blaming Clint for Nat's death.

Upon waking this morning the only thing I can come up with is Valentina is saying, Clint recruited Nat into Shield, which led to her joining the Avengers, which led to her death protecting the universe.?? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

She's not a good person. If you want to know the full version, check out her Marvel Wiki entry. In short, she's interested in sowing division among the heroes.

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Upon waking this morning the only thing I can come up with is Valentina is saying, Clint recruited Nat into Shield, which led to her joining the Avengers, which led to her death protecting the universe.?? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I still say she's recruiting Hawkeye for Thunderbolts along with US Agent and Black Widow 2.0

[paigow]

15 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I still say she's recruiting Hawkeye for Thunderbolts along with US Agent and Black Widow 2.0

Yelena has a kill order on Barton... Not likely she will break protocol to recruit him... Kate would be the potential recruit

[benteen]

I finally ended up seeing Black Widow and I really enjoyed it.  It's definitely not one of Marvel's best movies and it should have come after Civil War but this was an enjoyable summer flick.  

Florence Pugh was the highlight as Yelena.  She was a fun character who brought more humor to this role than I expected.  Enjoyed her mocking Natasha's main move.  I will have to say that I'm looking forward to the Hawkeye series a lot more now (it already has a great cast).  FP is another great addition to the Marvel Universe.

David Harbour was a lot of fun and Rachel Weisz was able to get the most out of her role.  The family reunion was a highligh.  I hate to say it but ScarJo was definitely the fourth of the "family" members.  She had some nice moments but her character seems to be stuck with that monotone delivery at times.

Some first-class fighting sequences and action.  I really liked that the exciting opening scene seemed inspired by The Americans.  At the same time, I think this movie cribbed way too much from the far superior Winter Soldier.

Taskmaster had a great look and it was cool to see the character brought to life.  I didn't mind the gender flip but I feel like her backstory eliminates a terrific comic villain from future appearances.  Not to mention, making your character mute like Deadpool was in Wolverine Origins is never a good idea.

A strong first two-thirds of the movie.  The last third is hampered by being another FX orgy and a bit of a mess in execution, not to mention all the cribbing from The Winter Soldier.  Nice to see Julia Louis-Dreyfus on the screen although her appearance in Falcon and the Winter Soldier was a much better introduction.  William Hurt's Ross might be the most thankless role in the MCU.  He shows up just to be a pest and the movie isn't even interested in seeing his confrontation with Natasha at the end.  I still say Sam Elliot's Thunderbolt Ross was a much better one.

Complaints aside, Black Widow was a fun summer movie and I'm glad the character finally got a film of her own.  It's a good send-off for the character while establishing Yelena's character in the MCU.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, Anduin said:

She's not a good person. If you want to know the full version, check out her Marvel Wiki entry. In short, she's interested in sowing division among the heroes.

I know all this, and I think you missed to point of my post.

After watching BW, I don't think Yelana would be gunning for "the person responsible for her death". She knew Nat found a 2nd family in the Avengers and after endgame, I think the only thing that would have been released publicly (as shown in Spiderman Far From Home and the schools tribute to them) was that the Avengers brought everyone back and then fought Thanos again, during which 3 Avengers lost their lives. And Yelana, who seemed to be looking for a good death in this movie, would consider that a good one for Nat and not be looking to place blame.

The scene just didn't ring true to me.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Yelena has a kill order on Barton... Not likely she will break protocol to recruit him... Kate would be the potential recruit

I personally think that's a misdirect/teaser. There were obvious words, "next target", "your shot" etc.  They absolutely can be setting up Yelena to "kill" Clinton but, I just don't think it's that obvious

 Granted I am totally spoiler free for Hawkeye, so I have no idea what the story is about or what role Yelena plays in it. 

I will say, I don't think Kate would be the recruit but, I don't know much about her, except that people keep talking about her for Young Avengers.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Morrigan2575

[Kel Varnsen]

4 hours ago, benteen said:

should have come after Civil War but this was an enjoyable summer flick.  

Of course if it had come out right after Civil War you probably don't get Florence Pugh as Yelena, and possibly not David Harbour as Red Guardian.

On 7/16/2021 at 8:41 PM, Raja said:

Captain Rogers said to go to war in uniform 

I don't recall him saying anything about making time to change into a sexier uniform when you are leaving a war and things are blowing up all around you.

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I don't recall him saying anything about making time to change into a sexier uniform when you are leaving a war and things are blowing up all around you.

It is possible that Nat had the bodysuit on under her other outfit.  Super stretchy materials like what she wore can be folded and hidden under a skirt suit very easily.  The real question is where did Nat hide her boots?  

[tv echo]

Legacy Featurette | Marvel Studios' Black Widow
Marvel Entertainment   Jul 19, 2021

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by tv echo

[Cobalt Stargazer]

10 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

So why was Valentina blaming Clint for Nat's death.

That's the thing, though, I don't think she is. I'm pretty sure Val's cooking up something sketchy, that Yelena is being used to target Clint for some reason that has nothing to do with Natasha. This is just the easiest way to get her to go along, telling her that Barton killed her sister. I wouldn't think Yelena is in the loop enough to know how the Soul Stone was acquired, that one of them had to die, or even that they fought to get to the edge of the cliff first. For all we know, Clint isn't aware Yelena exists, since she was alone at Natasha's grave until Val showed up to bother her. Not enough threads tied together yet, that's all.

[Anduin]

47 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

That's the thing, though, I don't think she is. I'm pretty sure Val's cooking up something sketchy, that Yelena is being used to target Clint for some reason that has nothing to do with Natasha. This is just the easiest way to get her to go along, telling her that Barton killed her sister. I wouldn't think Yelena is in the loop enough to know how the Soul Stone was acquired, that one of them had to die, or even that they fought to get to the edge of the cliff first. For all we know, Clint isn't aware Yelena exists, since she was alone at Natasha's grave until Val showed up to bother her. Not enough threads tied together yet, that's all.

Yes, that was my interpretation too. Bad person up to bad things, including misinformation.

[scarynikki12]

Valentina also phrased it “the man responsible for your sister’s death” instead of “the man who killed your sister” so she’s being careful with her wording.

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

Valentina also phrased it “the man responsible for your sister’s death” instead of “the man who killed your sister” so she’s being careful with her wording.

I've heard it called lying with the truth, though selective editing may be more accurate. Always clever, always annoying.