Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[YaddaYadda]

50 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

She's been betrayed on a lot of fronts here.

I think that she is her own biggest betrayer, though. Willow's thought process wasn't irrational until she allowed Drew to steer her in a different direction. Repeatedly. She never went against what he told her.

Will she believe it if she's told that Drew paid off the receptionist in Germany to stop her from seeing Michael? That meeting would have stopped this whole custody trial from happening.

If Drew is the one who ends up telling Willow about him and Nina sleeping together, his version will be that Nina tied him to a bed and raped him.

[DanaK]

39 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I think that she is her own biggest betrayer, though. Willow's thought process wasn't irrational until she allowed Drew to steer her in a different direction. Repeatedly. She never went against what he told her.

Will she believe it if she's told that Drew paid off the receptionist in Germany to stop her from seeing Michael? That meeting would have stopped this whole custody trial from happening.

If Drew is the one who ends up telling Willow about him and Nina sleeping together, his version will be that Nina tied him to a bed and raped him.

I can't believe she didn't push back when Drew wanted her to sign a document giving him custody of the kids (assuming she had custody) if something happened to her. Like, the kids had other family, like their various grandparents and aunts and uncles and so on. Why would she just sign a document like that without asking a whole lot of questions? I assume it became worthless once Michael came back and is totally invalidated now that Michael has custody and even the judge brought it up as a mark against Willow. As I've said before, I don't get Drew's ultimate motivation here for his attempts to control Willow, but I also don't get where this storyline is headed, at least in regards to Willow and Drew. It's got the markings of current and future control and/or abuse by a partner and you would think the obvious outcome would be Willow realizing the effects of being in a cult made her an easy target for controlling men and ends up in therapy and working on herself. But right now, it's just Willow pitted against Michael for control of the kids with Drew and Sasha and her baby mixed in to make it soapy. But it feels like there's another story here (Drew and his efforts to control Willow) that wants to get out and be explored more but that the writers aren't even thinking about or have thought about but don't want to go there

Edited June 13 by DanaK

[dubbel zout]

41 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I think that she is her own biggest betrayer, though.

Definitely, and that's another reason her reaction was so intense. Willow has a lot of process.

2 minutes ago, DanaK said:

Why would she just sign a document like that without asking a whole lot of questions? I assume it became worthless once Michael came back

I don't understand how it was valid in the first place. I guess just because you sign the papers doesn't mean it's legal. At that point Drew could have sold Willow London Bridge and she'd have agreed it was a good deal.

Edited June 13 by dubbel zout

[DanaK]

19 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

This has got to be to set up something even more crazy for Drew to do, as that's how this story has been written from the start. 

 

19 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Even if Willow had won custody, I'd expect Drew to do something crazy to keep Michael et al away.

It certainly feels like it should, but the story doesn't seem to be exploring Drew's motivations with any depth. It all feels too surface to me, like the usual trope of a bad guy twirling his mustache as he's doing something bad but here we aren't really getting the why

And sorry, I know I'm sounding like a broken record with this particular topic, but like I said before, it's bothering me that we aren't getting any underlying look of the why about Drew's actions with Willow. I mean, I and I would hope many posters, especially women, can plainly see that Drew is controlling Willow to only be with him but what his ultimate plan is, if there is one, and why he's acting in this way that's dissimilar to how he's acted before, isn't being explored. I'm not sure why I'm letting this particular storyline frustrate me so much given how long I've watched soaps

 

Edited June 13 by DanaK

[Daisy]

2 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

If she had cheated on anyone else, it wouldn't have mattered, but she cheated on Michael and that cannot be forgiven. When Willow was cheating on Chase with Michael, the same people roasting her for cheating now had no issue with that because they wanted her with Michael.

 

pretty much. and the justification is hilarious. 
Chase coerced Willow into marriage (as if Willow didn't have the opportunity several times to say "no thank you, just want to be friends), like Michael was never in Willow's face with the whole "I love you, wish we could be together, pouty face." like Michael wasn't going against his best friend by. Nope. Michaael and Willow deserved to be together. 

Everything that Drew did, MIchael did but it's worse. (honestly i feel basically until they slept together and Drew became very mustache twirly, it was setting up to be quasi-romantic-esque). We ignore the fact that Michael  [who slept with Willow whilst married to someone else], learned about a kiss and his first thought was to get drunk and screw someone else. He didn't talk to Willow, didn't try to figure things out, or quite frankly even deny that it happened. he took it at face value and went okay, so imma gonna boink Sasha). HE never owned up to what he did and if Nina didn't figure it out, he and Sasha would have kept that stupid baby's secret to the grave while screaming at Willow for being faithless, but that's okay because he was just hurt and drunk.  Give me a break

[Daisy]

33 minutes ago, DanaK said:

But it feels like there's another story here (Drew and his efforts to control Willow) that wants to get out and be explored more but that the writers aren't even thinking about or have thought about but don't want to go there

because this show refuses to acknowledge Willow's cult background for more than one second.

 

1 hour ago, sacrebleu said:

It's been a while since GH did a DID story ( was Alexis' fake DID for killing Alcazar the last?) And I have my doubts the Willow actress could handle it ..  but that story wouldn't surprise me at all 

they did one with Kate/Connie. 

[KerleyQ]

2 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Oooh, what it Willow goes all mulitple personality on us (I forget the proper medical term)?  Given her very abusive upbringing (and being assaulted by father-type Shiloh)?

I very much hope I am wrong.

I don't trust this show with that kind of story at all. They'd almost certainly decide to have her channel Nell as her alternate personality. 

15 minutes ago, DanaK said:

 

It certainly feels like it should, but the story doesn't seem to be exploring Drew's motivations with any depth. It all feels too surface to me, like the usual trope of a bad guy twirling his mustache as he's doing something bad but here we aren't really getting the why

And sorry, I know I'm sounding like a broken record with this particular topic, but like I said before, it's bothering me that we aren't getting any underlying look of the why about Drew's actions with Willow. I mean, I and I would hope many posters, especially women, can plainly see that Drew is controlling Willow to only be with him but what his ultimate plan is, if there is one, and why he's acting in this way that's dissimilar to how he's acted before, isn't being explored. I'm not sure why I'm letting this particular storyline frustrate me so much given how long I've watched soaps

 

I'm completely with you. We need some kind of explanation for how and why Drew went from the aw, shucks heroic good guy who loved his family to whatever the fuck this is. The story could have been good. Drew could have been conflicted about his growing feelings for Willow. The hookups with Nina after the first kiss with Willow could have been him trying to pull himself away, only to end up torn when he has genuine feelings for both of them. Instead we got this complete Snidely Whiplash turn without any buildup or reason. Yes, sure, the family would get mad at him once it came out that he was cheating with Michael's wife, but the way he didn't understand that at all and just decided "fuck them all, let's bulldoze the dead Q's!" is just a bizarre choice without giving us any kind of insight into what the fuck is going on in his brain. We don't even know how he actually feels about Willow. I can understand that they might have some big swerve they don't want to spoil or spell out, but not giving us even the tiniest of hints along the way is shitty writing. Sure, plot twists should be a surprise, but they still need to be built up and make some level of sense. A complete surprise just for the sake of being a surprise isn't fun and entertaining for most viewers. A good plot twist should allow viewers to look back at everything that led up to it and see the path to it. 

[DanaK]

27 minutes ago, KerleyQ said:

I'm completely with you. We need some kind of explanation for how and why Drew went from the aw, shucks heroic good guy who loved his family to whatever the fuck this is. The story could have been good. Drew could have been conflicted about his growing feelings for Willow. The hookups with Nina after the first kiss with Willow could have been him trying to pull himself away, only to end up torn when he has genuine feelings for both of them. Instead we got this complete Snidely Whiplash turn without any buildup or reason. Yes, sure, the family would get mad at him once it came out that he was cheating with Michael's wife, but the way he didn't understand that at all and just decided "fuck them all, let's bulldoze the dead Q's!" is just a bizarre choice without giving us any kind of insight into what the fuck is going on in his brain. We don't even know how he actually feels about Willow. I can understand that they might have some big swerve they don't want to spoil or spell out, but not giving us even the tiniest of hints along the way is shitty writing. Sure, plot twists should be a surprise, but they still need to be built up and make some level of sense. A complete surprise just for the sake of being a surprise isn't fun and entertaining for most viewers. A good plot twist should allow viewers to look back at everything that led up to it and see the path to it. 

Soap characters do tend to act a little differently when there's a recast, like for example AMC's Dixie going from totally aw shucks to a little more worldly when Cadie McClain took the role. So I would expect the character of Drew to act a little differently when Cameron came aboard. But the heel turn as you said isn't being explained. We assume it may be due to the brainwashing or the captivity or whatever else, but it isn't really being explored or even fully acknowledged

ETA: Oh, and thank you for saying you see it also and that it's bothering you as well! And for other posters leaving likes and such on previous posts indicating their agreement. I felt like I was just spitting in the wind. I know the writers tend to end a storyline badly these days, but the ongoing storyline shouldn't have one part dangling like it has so far

 

Edited June 13 by DanaK

[KerleyQ]

9 minutes ago, DanaK said:

Soap characters do tend to act a little differently when there's a recast, like for example AMC's Dixie going from totally aw shucks to a little more worldly when Cadie McClain took the role. So I would expect the character of Drew to act a little differently when Cameron came aboard. But the heel turn as you said isn't being explained. We assume it may be due to the brainwashing or the captivity or whatever else, but it isn't really being explored or even fully acknowledged

And he was still the earnest good guy for quite a while after CM took over. I feel like the first time we saw him have any edge to him was when he broke up with Carly as soon as Jason came back. (Which was also when I first suspected they were going to pair him with Willow. Something about the scene when he went to her and talked to her about the breakup struck me as the start of something.) 

[Daisy]

32 minutes ago, DanaK said:

ETA: Oh, and thank you for saying you see it also and that it's bothering you as well! And for other posters leaving likes and such on previous posts indicating their agreement. I felt like I was just spitting in the wind. I know the writers tend to end a storyline badly these days, but the ongoing storyline shouldn't have one part dangling like it has so far

 

yeah it bugs me too. like i said I dont mind it. and I think CamMat is actually doing really well with this (for the most part I don't see Ryan Lavery whom drove me up the wall, so that's always a blessing) but its the WHY. 

When Nina was reading him for filth, he had this look on his face that it sort of dawned to him how much he screwed up - so it made me feel that his end goal really was to try to get Willlow her kids [WHY?! we don't know]. but then when Nina was like. if you really loved Willow, you'd walk away and never look back. (which i think the advice was sound but how it was delivered was not, it really should have been real love is about sacrifice, and knowing when just walk away, which he SHOULD have done when Willow told him about Michael's ultimatimum - even though i had issues with THAT) he had this. "bitch don't start with me" look which was really chilling and cool. 

but i'm with you i wanna know. WHY. and i think the reason why we don't have a "why" is because Korte and Van Etten are so freaking stupid they don't know yet

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, DanaK said:

I can't believe she didn't push back when Drew wanted her to sign a document giving him custody of the kids (assuming she had custody) if something happened to her.

That's sort of the problem with Willow. I think the actress has done a good job to convey that Willow is troubled by things that Drew says to her, you see it in her face. Like she was weirded out by the document giving Drew custody of her children, but she ended up signing when he told her that Scout would go to her if something happened to him. He springs the move to DC on her, but she doesn't say that they need to discuss it even though you can tell this isn't what she wants.

But she just folds because she thinks he knows better. Since Drew is old enough to be her father, maybe what she needs is a father figure, not a creeper who preys on her insecurities and her obedient nature.

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Definitely, and that's another reason her reaction was so intense. Willow has a lot of process.

She has a lot to process for sure. Maybe she should start thinking about what people have been saying about her chameleon personality because of her cult upbringing.

I think what was sad about her scenes yesterday wasn't her reaction as much as how she really believed that she was going to get custody because Michael was absent, then because he slept with someone else first and a kid came out of that.

I thought it was interesting that in the end, the judge didn't bring up Willow or Michael's infidelities, but that her verdict was based on Willow's actions based on what Drew told her to do.

I hope she takes off the rose-colored glasses instead of looking at this as us against the world. 

[Cheyanne11]

26 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I thought it was interesting that in the end, the judge didn't bring up Willow or Michael's infidelities, but that her verdict was based on Willow's actions based on what Drew told her to do.

What's frustrating to date about this is we all see how Willow is being manipulated by Drew and we can surmise it's because of her cult upbringing, but the show isn't following through on exploring that.  It's like a half-measure.  Just like if we're supposed to believe Drew just became a supreme asshole because Jason came back and ~stole his place in PC that he had established.

[Winston Wolfe]

1 hour ago, KerleyQ said:

I'm completely with you. We need some kind of explanation for how and why Drew went from the aw, shucks heroic good guy who loved his family to whatever the fuck this is. The story could have been good. Drew could have been conflicted about his growing feelings for Willow. The hookups with Nina after the first kiss with Willow could have been him trying to pull himself away, only to end up torn when he has genuine feelings for both of them. Instead we got this complete Snidely Whiplash turn without any buildup or reason.

1 hour ago, DanaK said:

Soap characters do tend to act a little differently when there's a recast, like for example AMC's Dixie going from totally aw shucks to a little more worldly when Cadie McClain took the role. So I would expect the character of Drew to act a little differently when Cameron came aboard. But the heel turn as you said isn't being explained. We assume it may be due to the brainwashing or the captivity or whatever else, but it isn't really being explored or even fully acknowledged

ITA with all of the above. I think the CM recast gave the showrunners an opportunity to go in a completely different direction with the Drew character. Knowing Billy Miller (RIP) from Y&R, there's no way in Hades he would have been able to pull this S/L off - the actor and character were just too decent, and the fans simply wouldn't have accepted it. With the CM recast Drew became an entirely new character for the writers to play with.

Edited June 13 by Winston Wolfe

[ciarra]

(Accidentally stuck this on the press club board.)  Reposting it here.

I still think Jason "the jet is fueled" is a jerk for assisting in stealing the kids away from Willow, had she won sole custody.  He does it under the banner of the kids must be saved from Drew, but as I said before, the kids are fed and clothed and are not with an abuser.  Willow is not perfect, but neither is the guy who hangs around mob central and accidentally gets burned in a bombing.  

Alexis should print out a second copy of those involuntary commitment papers and file them.  

 

[CeChase]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

yeah it bugs me too. like i said I dont mind it. and I think CamMat is actually doing really well with this (for the most part I don't see Ryan Lavery whom drove me up the wall, so that's always a blessing) but its the WHY. 

When Nina was reading him for filth, he had this look on his face that it sort of dawned to him how much he screwed up - so it made me feel that his end goal really was to try to get Willlow her kids [WHY?! we don't know]. but then when Nina was like. if you really loved Willow, you'd walk away and never look back. (which i think the advice was sound but how it was delivered was not, it really should have been real love is about sacrifice, and knowing when just walk away, which he SHOULD have done when Willow told him about Michael's ultimatimum - even though i had issues with THAT) he had this. "bitch don't start with me" look which was really chilling and cool. 

but i'm with you i wanna know. WHY. and i think the reason why we don't have a "why" is because Korte and Van Etten are so freaking stupid they don't know yet

I think he is too!  And I think there's a lot more buzz around this show lately, some of that was definitely Gio, Emma, and then the whole reveal, but now a lot of it is Drew, Willow, and nuMichael who is a fantastic recast.   

[YaddaYadda]

22 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

What's frustrating to date about this is we all see how Willow is being manipulated by Drew and we can surmise it's because of her cult upbringing, but the show isn't following through on exploring that.

They pay lip service to her cult past whenever they need it, then promptly push it back to the backburner while the character twists in the wind.

Sounds about right.

[Daisy]

25 minutes ago, Winston Wolfe said:

ITA with all of the above. I think the CM recast gave the showrunners an opportunity to go in a completely different direction with the Drew character. Knowing Billy Miller (RIP) from Y&R, there's no way in Hades he would have been able to pull this S/L off - the actor and character were just too decent, and the fans simply wouldn't have accepted it. With the CM recast Drew became an entirely new character for the writers to play with.

i agree. (sort of) LOL i sort of know what you mean but I am pretty sure CamMat is also decent hahaha. But you mean just the ability to go there, and take the heat. I mean I've made my stance pretty clear, I'm never anti-recast [it helps that i didn't really know BM's Drew at all, didn't really watch any of that], but even if i had, i'd be fine with it. 

[MarciNJ]

2 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

Yes, sure, the family would get mad at him once it came out that he was cheating with Michael's wife, but the way he didn't understand that at all and just decided "fuck them all, let's bulldoze the dead Q's!" is just a bizarre choice without giving us any kind of insight into what the fuck is going on in his brain

I hope they don't decide to give him a tumor to explain away his behavior....

[Bringonthedrama]

1 hour ago, KerleyQ said:

I'm completely with you. We need some kind of explanation for how and why Drew went from the aw, shucks heroic good guy who loved his family to whatever the fuck this is. The story could have been good. Drew could have been conflicted about his growing feelings for Willow. The hookups with Nina after the first kiss with Willow could have been him trying to pull himself away, only to end up torn when he has genuine feelings for both of them.

just decided "fuck them all, let's bulldoze the dead Q's!" is just a bizarre choice without giving us any kind of insight into what the fuck is going on in his brain. We don't even know how he actually feels about Willow. 

He seemed to start out conflicted (telling Nina it would never happen again with Willow, and they slept together), was much less conflicted after the second kiss, and then was all in when she came to "comfort" him in the kids' playroom over the loss of Sam. Drew is delusional as well. He insists he and Willow fell in love and won't even acknowledge the word "affair" even when Willow said it his face that they had done something wrong. 

Drew seems to love the narrative that Willow fell in love with him and chose him over Michael. Not too long ago in his new house, he complained that Jason had the good life and threw it away but Monica still loves him/the family accepts him. He has also had lines - maybe with Tracy - indicating Monica has unconditional love for Jason and Michael whereas he was told to leave the Q mansion once his affair with Willow was exposed. Drew's attitude was all these Qs have done terrible things, and Jason is a killer, yet they all get to live here and I have to leave? Where's my unconditional love?

Drew broke up with Carly as soon as he heard Jason was alive and in the vicinity of Port Charles. I remembered that Sam divorced him (as played by BM) and got back together with Jason. It made me wonder, if it all comes down to wanting to hurt Jason because Sam chose him and Monica continues to love Jason.

The desire to bulldoze the dead Qs seems like revenge on the entire family, especially Tracy who told him what she thought of him and rubbed Monica's love for Jason, Michael and the kids in his face. Drew never had a personal relationship with Alan or his grandparents and he is aware of that, so they don't mean anything to him but he knows they mean a lot to Tracy.

32 minutes ago, Daisy said:

so it made me feel that his end goal really was to try to get Willlow her kids [WHY?! we don't know]. but then when Nina was like. if you really loved Willow, you'd walk away and never look back. (which i think the advice was sound but how it was delivered was not, it really should have been real love is about sacrifice

but i'm with you i wanna know. WHY. 

A beautiful, much younger woman being "in love" with him is a huge ego trip and IMO taking Michael's wife and children away is the ultimate middle finger to Monica, Jason and Michael. Ironically, when Drew was willing to make a "sacrifice" it was for Carly - going to prison and leaving Scout so that Carly wouldn't be away from her youngest child.

As for today, I had to laugh at Maxie saying to Lulu of course she's still talking to her, that interfering where it wasn't her business and upending other people's lives used to be "my jam."  Good for Maxie for telling Lulu she needs to take accountability for her part, for being insulted by Brook Lynn's assumption, and for telling them their attitude/behavior regarding each other is going to trickle down to their sons' relationship. Brook Lynn telling them she can be "willing to accept an apology from Lulu" for Dante and Gio's sake made her sound like Carly. Yes, Lulu, you are right you owe Gio an apology.

Drew talking to Martin was the first time in many months that Drew sounded like he was capable of decency. Jason v. Drew in their blue t-shirts was an interesting development, lol. 

@GHScorpiosRule hope you enjoy Anna's reflection about how great Robert was as a dad and her past with Robert and wee Robin.

From the preview, I thought for a moment Anna had locked both Dante and Chase in a jail cell but I get it, she doesn't want them having it out in the middle of the police station.

 

 

 

 

[statsgirl]

This show has the opportunity to make Sonny the mobster the show is trying to make him by killing Natalia so that she could not turn over the information to the police. But the show would never portray the gummy bear mobster like that.

Why doesn't Natalia just go to a country without an extradition arrangement with the US till the statute of limitations runs out? Easier than getting a new identity

Nice seeing Alexis in a scene with Tracy. NLG deserves a good scene partner and better than the Kristina garbage she's been getting.

The judge made no accommodations for Willow to be able to see Wylie and Amelie until they have been assessed by a psychiatrist ... yeah that's not going to hurt the kids at all.

Drew being willing to step away from Willow so that she can see her children and then going to Michael feels like a 180.

i prefer seeing Maxie as peacemaker to Flake Maxie or Isaiah the Propper. Now she needs to take Dante in hand because I'm over his anger at Chase.

1 hour ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Just like if we're supposed to believe Drew just became a supreme asshole because Jason came back and ~stole his place in PC Carly's life that he had established.

That's the explanation the show gave us -- that now that Jason is back there is no room in Carly's life for him. It was only later that they started talking about the time that he spent in prison causing the change.

1 hour ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Knowing Billy Miller (RIP) from Y&R, there's no way in Hades he would have been able to pull this S/L off - the actor and character were just too decent,

I don't know, he played a pretty nasty character on NCIS who kidnapped Dr. Grace.

[Daisy]

Martin was preaching thirty-one flavours of truth. (and you know if he was Willow's lawyer none of this logic would have been stated.

 

9 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

This show has the opportunity to make Sonny the mobster the show is trying to make him by killing Natalia so that she could not turn over the information to the police. But the show would never portray the gummy bear mobster like that.

 

god forbid we show Sonny as the monster he is

and I am so over Dante's pissed off attitude every time someone points out that he has a conflict of interest with his job and Sonny. Dude the minute you lied that he shot you in the chest and Mac called you on that load of BS should have been your first indicator how your life was gonna go. 

[KerleyQ]

2 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

That's sort of the problem with Willow. I think the actress has done a good job to convey that Willow is troubled by things that Drew says to her, you see it in her face. Like she was weirded out by the document giving Drew custody of her children, but she ended up signing when he told her that Scout would go to her if something happened to him. He springs the move to DC on her, but she doesn't say that they need to discuss it even though you can tell this isn't what she wants.

But she just folds because she thinks he knows better. Since Drew is old enough to be her father, maybe what she needs is a father figure, not a creeper who preys on her insecurities and her obedient nature.

I think it's like a perfect storm of her having this hero worship for him, because he "saved her life," and her having been a cult member.  

[ulkis]

Kirsten Storms should cease and desist with that upper lip.

Now is a great time for both characters for the Dante/Anna fling, I am just saying!

And yeah that was a beautiful farewell scene for Liz and Lucky and helped me be less pissed over the whole debacle. Even though that was one tight-ass closed lipped kiss lol. But I felt the emotion.

Edited June 13 by ulkis

[dubbel zout]

40 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Now she needs to take Dante in hand because I'm over his anger at Chase.

I can't believe how juvenile Dante is acting. It's embarrassing to watch. 

[statsgirl]

14 hours ago, Daisy said:

  and people justify Michael's because he + sasha were drunk. (which i never buy but aparently this is the big difference)

Natalia was drunk driving and she has to leave the country or go to jail. Michael got drunk at the thought of Willow kissing Drew, committed adultery and fathered an illegitimate child but that's totes okay on this show.

7 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Oooh, what it Willow goes all mulitple personality on us (I forget the proper medical term)?  Given her very abusive upbringing (and being assaulted by father-type Shiloh

It would make sense as someone who was sexually abused at a young age and more interesting than the custody trial. But the show has over worked it at this point. 

6 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Same. I hate how Cody is back to being a money-grubbing slime. It didn't work when they did that with Gladys, and it's not working here. 

It feels like their go-to when they have a semi=comedic character and don't know what to do with them. Except for Spinelli, he would not be successful as a conman.

59 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Drew seems to love the narrative that Willow fell in love with him and chose him over Michael. Not too long ago in his new house, he complained that Jason had the good life and threw it away but Monica still loves him/the family accepts him. He has also had lines - maybe with Tracy - indicating Monica has unconditional love for Jason and Michael whereas he was told to leave the Q mansion once his affair with Willow was exposed. Drew's attitude was all these Qs have done terrible things, and Jason is a killer, yet they all get to live here and I have to leave? Where's my unconditional love?

Drew broke up with Carly as soon as he heard Jason was alive and in the vicinity of Port Charles. I remembered that Sam divorced him (as played by BM) and got back together with Jason. It made me wonder, if it all comes down to wanting to hurt Jason because Sam chose him and Monica continues to love Jason.

The desire to bulldoze the dead Qs seems like revenge on the entire family, especially Tracy who told him what she thought of him and rubbed Monica's love for Jason, Michael and the kids in his face. Drew never had a personal relationship with Alan or his grandparents and he is aware of that, so they don't mean anything to him but he knows they mean a lot to Tracy.

A beautiful, much younger woman being "in love" with him is a huge ego trip and IMO taking Michael's wife and children away is the ultimate middle finger to Monica, Jason and Michael. Ironically, when Drew was willing to make a "sacrifice" it was for Carly - going to prison and leaving Scout so that Carly wouldn't be away from her youngest child.

This whole comment is a very good analysis of Drew and the potential that they have for the character (having done a 180 from BM's Drew who was secure in his own skin and didn't need unconditional acceptance from the Qs.)

It makes sense that he would resent Jason for having everything that he was denied and being willing to just throw it away, and also resent those who were willing to accept Jason and Michael but not him.

Unfortunately this show will never examine that properly. But I wonder if it's what CM tells himself in order to play the role that he does.

Edited June 13 by statsgirl

[driver18]

41 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 Now she needs to take Dante in hand because I'm over his anger at Chase.

I understand this is a soap opera, but Dante deserves to be mad at Chase probably more than anyone else. 

Chase is his POLICE PARTNER. Meaning they can literally be in life and death situations at any time. Dante has to trust his partner completely. 100% to have his back, no ifs, ands, or buts. It is, again, literally about life and death trust. And, Chase broke that trust. 

If he couldn't tell Dante the truth because of his devotion to his wife, fine, come up with some excuse, any excuse, to explain why he could no longer partner with Dante.  But he didn't. He remained his partner, lying to him, day in and day out, shattering Dante's trust in him. How can Dante trust that Chase will have his back? How can Dante believe in his partner when his partner has broken that sacred bond?

Dante has every right to be every shade of furious at Chase. And for a good long time.

[CeChase]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

This show has the opportunity to make Sonny the mobster the show is trying to make him by killing Natalia so that she could not turn over the information to the police. But the show would never portray the gummy bear mobster like that.

Why doesn't Natalia just go to a country without an extradition arrangement with the US till the statute of limitations runs out? Easier than getting a new identity

Nice seeing Alexis in a scene with Tracy. NLG deserves a good scene partner and better than the Kristina garbage she's been getting.

The judge made no accommodations for Willow to be able to see Wylie and Amelie until they have been assessed by a psychiatrist ... yeah that's not going to hurt the kids at all.

Drew being willing to step away from Willow so that she can see her children and then going to Michael feels like a 180.

i prefer seeing Maxie as peacemaker to Flake Maxie or Isaiah the Propper. Now she needs to take Dante in hand because I'm over his anger at Chase.

That's the explanation the show gave us -- that now that Jason is back there is no room in Carly's life for him. It was only later that they started talking about the time that he spent in prison causing the change.

I don't know, he played a pretty nasty character on NCIS who kidnapped Dr. Grace.

Billy Miller played a, well, basically a pedophile on Justified.  There's another word as the girl had hit puberty, but she was a child.  And he pulled it off very well. 

[KerleyQ]

14 minutes ago, CeChase said:

Billy Miller played a, well, basically a pedophile on Justified.  There's another word as the girl had hit puberty, but she was a child.  And he pulled it off very well. 

He did a good job playing evil on All My Children, too. 

[Cheyanne11]

I don't think the change in character for Drew had anything to do with the recast.  Drew was still basically BM's good guy Drew until Steve Burton came back.  Hence, Steve Burton is the source of all evil.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[Daisy]

36 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

This whole comment is a very good analysis of Drew and the potential that they have for the character (having done a 180 from BM's Drew who was secure in his own skin and didn't need unconditional acceptance from the Qs.)

It makes sense that he would resent Jason for having everything that he was denied and being willing to just throw it away, and also resent those who were willing to accept Jason and Michael but not him.

Unfortunately this show will never examine that properly. But I wonder if it's what CM tells himself in order to play the role that he does.

well it makes sense from the 180 because he lost two years of his life. So any of the assurance that he had before would be whittled away now. 
 
but this is also the hilarious thing - Monica didn't unconditionally love/forgive Jason - she rightly read him for filith when Emily died and cut him out of her life for months (best few months of my life, but then they made Jason save her from the hit/run charge and she forgave him). She was also over AJ's darker tndencies for a good hot minute and I'm sure if Emily did something 'bad' (like really bad) she'd be all get out of my face too. 

the fact that WikiDrew can remember all these trivial things but not that is weird (well it's not because the show but theoretically he should know that)

35 minutes ago, driver18 said:

If he couldn't tell Dante the truth because of his devotion to his wife, fine, come up with some excuse, any excuse, to explain why he could no longer partner with Dante.  But he didn't. He remained his partner, lying to him, day in and day out, shattering Dante's trust in him. How can Dante trust that Chase will have his back? How can Dante believe in his partner when his partner has broken that sacred bond?

 

because quite frankly, as Maxie said, it wasn't his secret to tell. And he didn't lie. (and sorry. while it's a lie of omission in this case, it's moot, because Cody knew and he's right as rain with him).If Dante needs to pout how Chase didn't tell him something that BLQ had the right to do - then maybe Chase should start wondering if Dante would have his back if he had evidence that could put Sonny away for life like every single cop in that precinct should. But he doesn't. Chase clearly knows how to seperate church and state. Clearly Dante can't.  

That is a Dante issue not. everyone else is wrong. 

[TVbitch]

When Dante ran into Molly in Anna's office, and they hugged after Molly told him to call her, I immediately started doing the calculations as to whether they were related, in case it was a possible pairing. However, after several minutes, I just gave up. 

Oh Anna, your hypocrisy never fails to amuse me. The nerve of you telling Dante not to bring the fact that he has a son he didn't know about "into the office". Or have you already forgotten about all the drama and machinations you went through for Peetah!

[Maelstrom]

TVbitch, I believe Molly and Dante are half-first cousins through Sonny and Ric, if I'm not mistaken.

Please oh please for the love of all that is holy no more DID storylines. OLTL did one excellent DID storyline in the 90s, and every attempt since on every soap I"ve watched has been more and more of a travesty.

For me the most offensive part of this fucking custody storyline is the fact that, after well over a decade of having to watch the human equivalent of a bowl of lukewarm mayonnaise, we finally have a Michael that's charismatic, talented, and good-looking, even though the character is more vile than ever. Fuck you, Show! I don't know how to handle having a Michael I actually want to watch, especially when he's as much of a Carly butt-kisser and Sonny apologist as he ever was.

[statsgirl]

4 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

TVbitch, I believe Molly and Dante are half-first cousins through Sonny and Ric, if I'm not mistaken.

I think so.  By my calculations, they would share 12.5% DNA, which is fine by me but I think too close for some people.

Fanwanking, I think that Dante is displacing his anger on to Chase. Has he done things that he would hesitate to come clean to Chase about? I'm pretty sure he has in connection to his relationship to Sonny (e.g. hiding things as well as the big thing about being shot in the chest), Dante is not the angel that his anger would suggest that he is.

Dante needs to sit down with the psychiatrist that Wylie and Amelia are seeing, and that Kristina should see, and examine what exactly what is he so angry about. Is it the loss of 22 years with Gio? Well he managed to end up with a good relationship with Sonny even though Sonny didn't know that he existed so Dante should know that things can work out. And Brook Lynn didn't know about Gio herself so she couldn't have facilitated that.

Is it because Brook Lynn go pregnant and didn't tell him? What would he as a teenager have done if he had known? Married her? Asked his mother to raise the child since he couldn't have the career that he wanted if he was a fulltime father? Would he have supported Brook Lynn if she wanted to get an abortion or would he have badgered her to have the baby? Is he angry that she got pregnant in the first place because I'm pretty sure that she wasn't the one who could have put pm a condom.

Dante needs to figure all this out and then resolve it.

Sometimes I think that it's a good thing that GH doesn't have a regular therapist (now that Kevin is invisible) because half of the story lines would be over in a flash.

[JMO]

Will have to watch the full episode tonight as it was interrupted by the events in the Middle East.  So just wanted to comment on Dante right now.  

DZ plays Dante as emotionally unflappable---one could even say repressed---someone who tends to avoid the highs and lows.  Hence why his romantic life with Sam seemed so mundane, and why, after that first bedside scene,  he's had to tell people he's still grieving, rather than show them. 

But the poor guy has been through it.  His marriage breaks up due to his PTSD; his ex-wife becomes comatose, leaving him with a young son to raise on his own; he finally starts to rebuild his life and look to a viable future, when his new love dies, leaving him with an additional two children to worry about; his ex-wife, with whom he still shares love, awakens and reenters his life; and now he finds out he's been the unknowing player in a secret relationship.  

Maybe it's only natural that he would blow up, and maybe that's what happened with Gio over Rocco's drinking.  Maybe it's displaced grief over Sam, guilt over being grateful for Lulu's waking up, worry about all of the kids, and now feeling overwhelmed by both the fact and the subject matter of the secret.  And whether or not he's actually thought about it deeply enough, maybe it's only with Chase that he feels safe letting the anger out.  

But yes, he absolutely needs therapy.  Where is Kevin when we need him?

[Daisy]

51 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Sometimes I think that it's a good thing that GH doesn't have a regular therapist (now that Kevin is invisible) because half of the story lines would be over in a flash.

it's okay. even when Kevin was present, no one saw him anyway

[Desperado]

I could definitely get behind a show that would delve into Dante’s psyche, @JMO and @statsgirl, especially if it gets us to a sexier Dante.

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

Now is a great time for both characters for the Dante/Anna fling, I am just saying!

I would be fine with this.

But I sadly don’t think the show will go there (see what happened with filled with baggage Lucky).

[Sake614]

1 hour ago, JMO said:

Where is Kevin when we need him

Being the badass that Sonny is supposed to be and fucking Vanessa on a poker table in Maryland 🤣

[Cheyanne11]

6 hours ago, ciarra said:

I still think Jason "the jet is fueled" is a jerk for assisting in stealing the kids away from Willow, had she won sole custody. 

But totally in character.

Lulu needs to SHUT UP.  God, she's insufferable.  

Edited June 14 by Cheyanne11

[Auntie Velvet]

Now that Drew is doing one potentially good thing for Willow, I'm temporarily stymied! Is this selflessness an act and he's really still evillll (Shiloh/brain chip controlled, whatever)?

Or is he really trying to do something good for her? Time and Magic Jason will tell, I guess!

[Artsda]

Chase seemed more the jerk today. When Dante said keep it to work, he jumped at them having a problem. 

Lulu is right she does owe Gio the apology, but Brooklyn and her mother are the lying liars. 

Drew now wants Jason help. Lol Drew didn't want compromise, he hurt a child to prevent it. 

[Bringonthedrama]

2 hours ago, Daisy said:

but this is also the hilarious thing - Monica didn't unconditionally love/forgive Jason - she rightly read him for filith when Emily died and cut him out of her life for months (best few months of my life, but then they made Jason save her from the hit/run charge and she forgave him). She was also over AJ's darker tndencies for a good hot minute and I'm sure if Emily did something 'bad' (like really bad) she'd be all get out of my face too. 

the fact that WikiDrew can remember all these trivial things but not that is weird (well it's not because the show but theoretically he should know that)

I meant overall from Drew's perspective, Monica unconditionally loves Jason. She cut Jason out of her life temporarily over Emily getting murdered. She knows Jason has been loyal to Sonny despite being told Sonny murdered his brother (yes I know he told Gio that Sonny was 'protecting Ava', but he knows Sonny lies a lot and that Sonny hated A.J.) She lived through Jason helping Carly and Sonny keep little Michael away from the Quartermaines. Jason has gone back to working for Sonny since returning and has killed who knows how many people in the time he has been associated with Sonny.

I think that is why Drew keeps bringing up hypocrisy in the Quartermaine Family. Like hey Monica and the rest of you, Jason has done far worse than "falling in love" with someone he wasn't supposed, the rest of you have had affairs or worse, but I'm the bad guy who doesn't deserve to be a part of this family? Excuse me? 

There's also an entitled air about Drew's behavior in that he genuinely seems to believe he deserves to have Willow, Wiley and Amelia as a family with Scout whereas the Quartermaines don't deserve to have them around after how Willow has been treated. He argued that the kids should not go back to the mansion for a visit with ill Grandma Monica because it would "confuse them" as to where their true home was now. 

[driver18]

5 hours ago, Daisy said:

because quite frankly, as Maxie said, it wasn't his secret to tell. And he didn't lie. (and sorry. while it's a lie of omission in this case, it's moot, because Cody knew and he's right as rain with him).If Dante needs to pout how Chase didn't tell him something that BLQ had the right to do - then maybe Chase should start wondering if Dante would have his back if he had evidence that could put Sonny away for life like every single cop in that precinct should. But he doesn't. Chase clearly knows how to seperate church and state. Clearly Dante can't.  

That is a Dante issue not. everyone else is wrong. 

I dont think you clearly read what I wrote. I wrote: I said IF he wanted to keep the secret, not that he shouldn't or that he was wrong to do so, just that IF. Then I wrote it was fine to do so. The key point I was making that IF he chose to do sovthen he should have removed himself as Dante's partner since, understandably, he couldn't be honest with him.

This isn't about separating church and state.  When one's life is potentially on the line, you have to trust the person who is supposed to have your back 100%. Period. Chase has shown Dante that he would rather lie to his face for months than step back.

[Artsda]

Dante should get a new partner. He and Chase should be done if they can't have each other backs when it comes to in a line of fire situation.  

Chase though isn't Brooklyn all about "uncle Sonny" and Gio is now Chases stepson who grandfather is Sonny. So why is Chase not a conflict of interest? 

Chase lied, Brooklyn lied, but Dante also lied. Dante ever tell his partner he slept with Brooklyn? Chase still wouldn't know because Brooklyn lied and lied until she felt guilty about the not getting pregnant. Otherwise she never and Dante never would have told Chase they had relationship.  It's still not as bad though than the gaslighting lies Dante did to Lulu, claiming no relationship or anything happened with Brooklyn even when Lulu questioned it over and over. 

 

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I meant overall from Drew's perspective, Monica unconditionally loves Jason. She cut Jason out of her life temporarily over Emily getting murdered. She knows Jason has been loyal to Sonny despite being told Sonny murdered his brother (yes I know he told Gio that Sonny was 'protecting Ava', but he knows Sonny lies a lot and that Sonny hated A.J.) She lived through Jason helping Carly and Sonny keep little Michael away from the Quartermaines. Jason has gone back to working for Sonny since returning and has killed who knows how many people in the time he has been associated with Sonny.

I think that is why Drew keeps bringing up hypocrisy in the Quartermaine Family. Like hey Monica and the rest of you, Jason has done far worse than "falling in love" with someone he wasn't supposed, the rest of you have had affairs or worse, but I'm the bad guy who doesn't deserve to be a part of this family? Excuse me? 

There's also an entitled air about Drew's behavior in that he genuinely seems to believe he deserves to have Willow, Wiley and Amelia as a family with Scout whereas the Quartermaines don't deserve to have them around after how Willow has been treated. He argued that the kids should not go back to the mansion for a visit with ill Grandma Monica because it would "confuse them" as to where their true home was now. 

yeah which is fair. but i guess it's sort of this too shall pass. Drew just went full Def Con... whatever the bad one is? 5? the minute the Q's went "yah we acutally don't out out of our way to hurt each other."  

 

22 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Chase though isn't Brooklyn all about "uncle Sonny" and Gio is now Chases stepson who grandfather is Sonny. So why is Chase not a conflict of interest? 

probably because it's not biological, and theoretically Gio isn't in the picture right now.  I mean let's get real. they need to hire cops out of state considering how Sonny is connected to everyone. 

 

 

46 minutes ago, driver18 said:

This isn't about separating church and state.  When one's life is potentially on the line, you have to trust the person who is supposed to have your back 100%. Period. Chase has shown Dante that he would rather lie to his face for months than step back.

i did read what you said.
I also said Chase didn't lie. I don't think he needed to recuse himself from being Dante's partner because he didn't tell Dante about something that his wife  needed to tell Dante. and as Artsda said. it wasn't that best friend Dante let it known that he and BLQ had a past. so if it works one way for Chase, it works the same way for Dante. 

I also pointed out if that's what we're going to go with - then Dante should legit just leave because he lied to ever single cop in PCPD about Sonny shooting him the chest how can anyone trust Dante would 'have your back' if facing off against Sonny and his minions. but it's fine if you don't agree that's just the way i see it. 

[ciarra]

So Dante is mad at Chase.  Why does Cody get a free pass?  

Why should Dante get a free pass for not bothering with BL after they had sex.  I'll bet they had phones back then.  

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, ciarra said:

So Dante is mad at Chase.  Why does Cody get a free pass?  

Why should Dante get a free pass for not bothering with BL after they had sex.  I'll bet they had phones back then.  

and Cody knew a hell of a lot longer than chase. so... just sayin'.

[CeChase]

Well, the way I feel is that expecting a man to put you before his wife is incel behavior.  Your loyality is to your spouse.  Period.  Period.  I think Dante is acting like a jackass.  I really can't stand him. 

[ljr]

Does Sonny’s restaurant get customers or is just a fake business  for his mob stuff?

 

is Sonny going to shoot the district attorney? Why do they always have someone try to stop Sonny? It never works

Edited June 14 by ljr

[Bringonthedrama]

9 hours ago, ciarra said:

So Dante is mad at Chase.  Why does Cody get a free pass?  

Why should Dante get a free pass for not bothering with BL after they had sex.  I'll bet they had phones back then.  

Cody told Dante that since he never heard anything about a baby after he dropped Brook Lynn off at the bus station, he assumed she terminated the pregnancy. So no point in telling him. Dante accepted that.

Whereas Chase has known for several months that Brook Lynn had Dante's baby and kept it a secret from him. I get why Dante feels betrayed by them.

Brook Lynn left camp abruptly and the whole reason they ended up having sex was she was upset from being homesick. A teenage boy is going to assume she left because she decided she wanted to go home. The next time they saw each other was at school that fall. 

8 hours ago, Daisy said:

and Cody knew a hell of a lot longer than chase. so... just sayin'.

He knew that Brook Lynn went home from camp pregnant. He thought she had an abortion until Lulu told him otherwise, the day before the Nurses Ball. That's different from Chase knowing Dante has a child walking around in the world somewhere and keeping silent because his wife doesn't want to own up to the fact she's been lying for a long time.

[Sake614]

1 hour ago, ljr said:

is Sonny going to shoot the district attorney? Why do they always have someone try to stop Sonny? It never works

Nope. He’ll bed her, then take her to his island and buy her a pretty white dress. She’ll be so head over heels for him that she’ll just drop the case and make sure no others are brought while she’s there. 🙄

28 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Brook Lynn left camp abruptly and the whole reason they ended up having sex was she was upset from being homesick. A teenage boy is going to assume she left because she decided she wanted to go home. The next time they saw each other was at school that fall

They didn’t see each other at school. They didn’t see each other for years  after she left camp. I doubt she would’ve been able to keep it a secret if she saw him every day.