Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[KittyQ]

So Sonny gets to go home because Cyrus was a "bad guy"? Is that the way the law in PC works? You can break the law and commit crimes with little or no consequences as long as the victim isn't pure as the driven snow? What if the perpetrator is just as bad as the victim (ex. Sonny vs. Cyrus)? Shouldn't that be a draw, and Sonny has to be charged as much as if he'd beaten up an "innocent" person (admittedly hard to find one in PC). 

[Lobsel Vith]

40 minutes ago, KittyQ said:

So Sonny gets to go home because Cyrus was a "bad guy"? Is that the way the law in PC works? You can break the law and commit crimes with little or no consequences as long as the victim isn't pure as the driven snow? What if the perpetrator is just as bad as the victim (ex. Sonny vs. Cyrus)? Shouldn't that be a draw, and Sonny has to be charged as much as if he'd beaten up an "innocent" person (admittedly hard to find one in PC). 

Doctors Steve and Matt went to jail (seemingly indefinitely) while Sonny walks around free because reality warps and shifts around him.

Sonny going to jail for 5 minutes for murdering AJ didn’t even have an impact on being able to be let go immediately after being arrested.

[Auntie Velvet]

Having Lois and Diane assume that Sonny is one little step away from divorcing and/or offing Nina is probably the writers' way of telegraphing that he's somewhat reluctant to let her go.

But the immediate effect is just to make the audience consider his inner circle to be extremely tacky. At least this audience member.

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

not even lying there are people thinking it's hypocritical that Willow is standing up for herself against Michael for this because when Willow was treating Nina this way people thought she was a cow for not giving Nina a chance. 

 

The page I'm on, I feel like it's pretty evenly split that Willow should run for the hills and that she is the worst for not supporting Michael because Nina is the worst, so it's OK that he lied to her.  I mean, it's not even about Nina at this point, IMO. It's about the lie, and unlike other characters, she is also capable of seeing the parallel to her lie and how they're both not communicating with each other. Sure, he brought it up first, but she acknowledged his point. 

[JMO]

Would have been nice to have had people kind of naturally gravitate to Kelly's on hearing about Bobbie.  Could have had a good Irish wake, plenty of stories to tell (with flashbacks) and maybe even a few Luke and Ruby tales thrown in.  I'd prefer that to a somberfest.

Having said that, the quiet conversation between Carly and Liz was poignant in that it mirrors what happens with many of us who learn new things about our loved ones after they've gone.

Like Tracy, I remember the Lucy and Scott of yesteryear, and especially how awful Lucy was to Bobbie.  So telling that the character bemoans her own evil ways even while she is still plotting against Tracy.  

 

 

[DanaK]

So far, I’m liking all the segments about Bobbie even if we aren’t getting as many flashbacks as I would like. I appreciate Lucy bringing up that Bobbie had a bad side but she managed rise out of it

[VioletMarx]

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

I go through stages in watching and I saw some of the TB stuff, but SJB has always been Carly to me.  Yep, she didn't always win.  And, she had that poor, little lost girl quality that could sometimes almost make you feel bad for her even while she was doing bad stuff.  I saw her more as her own worst enemy than anything else.  LW's Carly is just so unbelievably arrogant that even if she were to never do anything wrong again, she would be unlikeable.  

Couldn't agree more. I adored SJB's Carly. I get deja vu watching Nina get serially yelled at as that was my experience of early Carly. On any given day, she could get called any number of horrible things by Elizabeth, Alexis, Monica, AJ, and the king of the Carly haters in those days, Sonny. I don't particularly love Nina, but the way people are so vile to her makes me root for her.  

LW's Carly is insufferable and unrecognizable to this OG Carly fan. I hate seeing what she has made of such a formerly complex character. 

I'd give anything for them to bring back each of the previous Carlys to remember JZ. I guess they could do it to lionize Sonny a couple of years ago, but not for Jackie. 

Edited January 9 by VioletMarx

[Ambrosefolly]

3 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Doctors Steve and Matt went to jail (seemingly indefinitely) while Sonny walks around free because reality warps and shifts around him.

Sonny going to jail for 5 minutes for murdering AJ didn’t even have an impact on being able to be let go immediately after being arrested.

Sonny didn't even stay in his stupid wheelchair for 5 minutes. Matt really pissed me off. He was one of the few people that had a reasonable "killing in the defense of others" as Lisa Niles was loose on the boat, had thrown Liz overboard and had killed a female crew member. If they wanted to write him off, they could had him accept a prestigious job at a different hospital.

[Artsda]

Real Carly never would have forgotten Liz worked at Kelly's.  Carly was obsessed with it.  

Now matter how long LW plays Carly, it just doesn't work for me compared to SB and TB.

So a mobster assaults a felon and that rewards bail?

 

[ciarra]

I wonder how long people were waiting for their orders at Kelly's, seeing as though there were three or four order tickets still clipped to the rack. 

[Grinaldi]

I've actually been pleasantly surprised by the amount of time they are taking to deal with Bobbie's death. It's not just the Carly show. Appreciated Lucy and Scott today talking about the thornier stuff and the scene at BJ's grave. Most of the stories right now suck but everyone is showing up for these scenes. 

[Cheyanne11]

Sonny's in lock-up (or the privileged equivalent of lock-up, that being the Jason Morgan Memorial Office) and practically the first words out of Diane's mouth are "do you want me to start divorce proceedings" and when he was telling her he didn't want to discuss it then she had to add how they had to do it soon.  Why?  First off, it's none of her business on a personal level and secondly, on a legal level there is no hurry.  Fuck off, Diane.

 

[sunnyface]

9 hours ago, KittyQ said:

So Sonny gets to go home because Cyrus was a "bad guy"? Is that the way the law in PC works? You can break the law and commit crimes with little or no consequences as long as the victim isn't pure as the driven snow?

And you can receive an apology from the arresting police officer.  Cyrus is lucky he was not arrested for hurting Sonny's knuckles.

Willow/Sasha/Brooklyn are finally getting stories where they do not have to play victim.  Nice to finally see some positive output from that neglected age-group.

Mention of Aunt Ruby 👍 today (but not deemed worthy of a photo like thug Jason).

[Asp Burger]

14 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Didn't Carly once slap Liz at Kelly's when she was working as a waitress there?  Something about Jason sleeping with Liz.

I recall two occasions when Carly slapped Liz. The first was when SJB's Carly was pregnant with the baby she would ultimately lose. Liz came to the penthouse at Sonny's invitation, and he wasn't home yet. Carly ordered Liz to leave, Liz said she was going to wait for Sonny, and it escalated. Liz threw it in Carly's face that Jason had left town without even saying goodbye to Carly. The other time was in the Laura Wright period and again involved Jason. Carly had just learned that Jake was Jason's son and showed up at Liz's house. They argued, and Liz called her the town whore.  

But they had a number of verbal run-ins when Liz was waitressing at Kelly's. After Robin left town, no one got under Carly's skin as much as Liz. Their hostilities lasted for the rest of the time SJB had the role (Face of Deception cosmetics campaign and all that) before going on the back burner when Tamara Braun took over. The most memorable altercation at Kelly's was the time Liz told her, "Sonny lost a baby. You lost a meal ticket." The Carly fans never let go of that one. (Of course, Carly said her share of ugly things too, and was usually the one starting the fights.) 

I thought Herbst and Wright did a good job in their scenes today, although I feel as though I've now seen about a dozen scenes of Liz and Carly playing nice while acknowledging that they've never been friends or have had bad history. Franco's gravesite, Liz's living room when she was burning pictures of her family, the meal they had (with flashbacks) while talking about their kids...it's like Groundhog Day. 

Edited January 9 by Asp Burger

[Katy M]

9 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Sonny's in lock-up (or the privileged equivalent of lock-up, that being the Jason Morgan Memorial Office) and practically the first words out of Diane's mouth are "do you want me to start divorce proceedings" and when he was telling her he didn't want to discuss it then she had to add how they had to do it soon.  Why?  First off, it's none of her business on a personal level and secondly, on a legal level there is no hurry.  Fuck off, Diane.

 

Third off, she's a criminal attorney and in the real world would never handle divorces.

[PatsyandEddie]

Diane is Sonny’s consigliere , she handles everything. 

Edited January 9 by PatsyandEddie

[perkie1968]

5 hours ago, sunnyface said:

Cyrus is lucky he was not arrested for hurting Sonny's knuckles.

Yes, but it's Nina's fault that cyrus' face kept hitting Sonny's fists.  

[ffwbe]

4 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

I thought Herbst and Wright did a good job in their scenes today, although I feel as though I've now seen about a dozen scenes of Liz and Carly playing nice while acknowledging that they've never been friends or have had bad history. Franco's gravesite, Liz's living room when she was burning pictures of her family, the meal they had (with flashbacks) while talking about their kids...it's like Groundhog Day. 

Yeah Carly and Sam have had the same, we didn’t use to like each other but now I think we can be friends convo a ton of times since 2021 as well and I feel the same way. Line we get it already. It’s like how Dante has the same revelation every couple months that he still loves his father and thinks he’s a good person despite him being a career criminal. These types of moments are only poignant the first time.  

[dubbel zout]

15 hours ago, Katy M said:

I mean, it's not even about Nina at this point, IMO. It's about the lie, and unlike other characters, she is also capable of seeing the parallel to her lie and how they're both not communicating with each other.

Exactly. I hope Bobbie's funeral doesn't derail this. Willow can support Michael through this stuff without it affecting the real problems in their relationship. Oh, wait, that's nuance and layers, something the show is allergic to. 

[ffwbe]

I’ve never seen a single Diane acting as a lawyer scene that makes me think that she’s the most amazing lawyer in the world like the show tries to claim she is. Even Scott has had his moments where I could see he’s not totally inept and he’s specifically referred to as the clownish, ambulance chasing type. 

[ciarra]

So who is holding Jason prisoner?

1. Victor (posthumously)?
2. Cyrus
3. Nina*   

*Bonus points if Nina discovers Jason is alive and doesn't tell Carly.  Extra bonus points if she doesn't tell Sonny.

Edited January 9 by ciarra

[ffwbe]

10 minutes ago, ciarra said:

So who is holding Jason prisoner?

1. Victor (posthumously)?
2. Cyrus
3. Nina*   

*Bonus points if Nina discovers Jason is alive and doesn't tell Carly.  Extra bonus points if she doesn't tell Sonny.

Oh I have absolutely no doubt Nina will be involved in his return. Wasn’t Ava heavily involved in his last return while she was in the midst of being Sonny/Carly enemy number 1? I remember people thinking Jason would treat Ava differently since he wasn’t around for the conflict and she helped him only to have him proceed to being supreme lapdog and parrot everything Sonny and Carly said about her. 

[jacourt]

Isn’t someone supposed to be going to Amsterdam with Carly?  Is it Liz?  I think I saw somewhere that is when Mr wonderful makes his return. 
silly question:  how does someone support themselves during the time they’ve been dead ?  

[DanaK]

25 minutes ago, jacourt said:

Isn’t someone supposed to be going to Amsterdam with Carly?  Is it Liz?  I think I saw somewhere that is when Mr wonderful makes his return. 
silly question:  how does someone support themselves during the time they’ve been dead ?  

I thought it was maybe Felicia?

[jacourt]

That’s it!  

[mostlylurking]

23 hours ago, perkie1968 said:

Maxie/Felicia at BJ's grave should have given us the Felicia/Bobbie flashback of the heart transplant. 

No “Not Barbara Jean” flashbacks?!  That was not only peak acting for Jackie but also an iconic GH scene in general.  I hope we get some more flashbacks before the week is up.

[Katy M]

"I want you to be happy and I'm sad if you're not" is a nice thing to say.  But, it just doesn't come out believably to me.  I don't know that she actively wants Sonny unhappy. (I think there was a point where she did, but not anymore).  But, I feel like she wants him to be happy on her terms.

And, I don't think it's Ava's job to do anything for Esme.  Honestly, I don't think the judge will be that harsh since she didn't steal anything, confessed, offered to pay for the window, didn't break anything else as far as I know, and didn't seem to be intent on harming anyone.  But, I suppose mean Ava's actions will be the catalyst Emse needs to turn back to her deceiving, conniving ways.  And, now Spenser can't go to Paris, because Esme will be in jail for a month or two and he'll have to take care of Ace.

[ciarra]

58 minutes ago, jacourt said:

how does someone support themselves during the time they’ve been dead ?

Starbucks Barista?

Rodeo Clown?

Stripper?

[perkie1968]

1 hour ago, jacourt said:

Isn’t someone supposed to be going to Amsterdam with Carly?

My pvr for Thursday says Felicia.  I don't think Jason is coming back that soon.  They tape 6 weeks in advance, no way could they have kept it a secret this long that he wasn't on set taping.  

[perkie1968]

19 minutes ago, Katy M said:

But, I feel like she wants him to be happy on her terms.

She wants him happy, alone.  

 

20 minutes ago, Katy M said:

And, now Spenser can't go to Paris,

Which doesn't make any sense since NACs the one who's character needs a plausible excuse to be off the show for a bit.  

[ffwbe]

22 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I want you to be happy and I'm sad if you're not" is a nice thing to say.  But, it just doesn't come out believably to me.  I don't know that she actively wants Sonny unhappy. (I think there was a point where she did, but not anymore).  But, I feel like she wants him to be happy on her terms.

We know it’s not completely truthful because she was very much not glad and in her feelings when he was happy with Nina. It’s extremely dependent on who or what is making him happy.

[statsgirl]

If Felicia needs to be the one going to Amsterdam to help Carly with Bobbie's things, it underlines how few real friends Carly has.

I've realized that I can only get through Sonny/Carly scenes is by muting the sound.

Did we really need to have matching Gregory/Alexis/Marshall/Stella "I shouldn't have kissed/hugged you" scenes? That only works if there is something enlightening from them.

Personally, if I were Alexis, I'd have a fling with Gregory. It's not lie there are other men available.

8 hours ago, Katy M said:

Third off, she's a criminal attorney and in the real world would never handle divorces.

But it's criminal that Nina got between Sonny and Carly.

20 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

She wants him happy, alone.

Carly wants all of her exes alone and pining for her.

41 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Honestly, I don't think the judge will be that harsh since she didn't steal anything, confessed, offered to pay for the window, didn't break anything else as far as I know, and didn't seem to be intent on harming anyone.

That logic only works for Sonny "Cyrus is a bad man so Sonny should get off for beating him into a coma" Corinthos.

Pregnant Esme was kidnapped and held captive at Wyndermere for months. Liz got off scott free for helping Nik but I'm sure that Esme is going to have to pay majorly for trying to get back her memories.

Laura needs to call Martin for Esme stat.

Vindictive of Ava to want to separate Esme from Ace considering she "killed" Nik for saying he would take Avery from her.

Today's show rates a C for hypocrisy so better than average.

[LexieLily]

It continues to boggle me how Jon Lindstrom/Kevin isn't a part of this Esme storyline in any meaningful way. Wouldn't Kevin, ESME'S UNCLE, want to be the one to be with her in the interrogation room?

[perkie1968]

8 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

f Felicia needs to be the one going to Amsterdam to help Carly with Bobbie's things, it underlines how few real friends Carly has.

This.

Realistically it would have been Lucas but tiic done Ryan Carnes dirty so he's only here for the actual memorial episode.  If it has to be someoen it makes sense that it's Felicia, who was Bobbie's sister in law and best friend for 30 years.  And not someone like Olivia (what the heck happened to Olivia, who we last saw run out of the  mansion on NY eve?!!)

[ciarra]

2 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Olivia (what the heck happened to Olivia, who we last saw run out of the  mansion on NY eve?!!)

Hopefully she kept going.

[perkie1968]

13 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Vindictive of Ava to want to separate Esme from Ace considering she "killed" Nik for saying he would take Avery from her.

Im sure that was part of Nik's plan, that he was talking about last week.  

[ffwbe]

Carly and Felicia settling Bobbie’s affairs would make sense if their or them did it on their own. Them teaming up makes it weird and random because literally the only time I recall them interacting was during the SJB Carly years when Felicia called out Carly for scheming to steal Tony away from Bobbie. 

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, ciarra said:

So who is holding Jason prisoner?

Ugh, I don't care. Nina will probably be blamed no matter what, since if she'd told everyone that Sonny was in Nixon Falls, Jason wouldn't have had to marry Carly, etc. And of course they use the least interesting option for explaining Jason's absence.

I love the color of Esmé's coat.

"But there's still a risk." Marshall, life in general is a risk. I'm fine with people being nervous about Curtis's procedure, but everyone is going overboard. I know Marshall blew up at Stella because of that dumb Christmas Eve kiss, which makes this worse. I really wish the show hadn't gone there with those two. He's no prize even on his best days, IMO.

6 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

30 minutes ago, Katy M said:

But, I feel like [Carly] wants [Sonny] to be happy on her terms.

We know it’s not completely truthful because she was very much not glad and in her feelings when he was happy with Nina. It’s extremely dependent on who or what is making him happy.

I feel like Carly wouldn't spend that much time thinking about Sonny's happiness. If it's in her face, like seeing him laugh with Nina, yes, but otherwise? It takes away time she can think about herself.

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Vindictive of Ava to want to separate Esme from Ace considering she "killed" Nik for saying he would take Avery from her.

That's Ava. Esmé never paid for what she did to the other teens, and Ava knows how to hold a grudge. I'm not sure why Laura and Esmé expected Ava to want anything less than jail for Esmé. I suspect Esmé will go to Pentonville for a bit so she and Heather can plot revenge. 

Tomorrow looks like it's going to be rough watching. I'm sure it was tough for the actors.

 

 

[ffwbe]

17 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Personally, if I were Alexis, I'd have a fling with Gregory. It's not lie there are other men available.

I really don’t think she is into him and Gregory was right that she wouldn’t have kissed him back if he wasn’t dying. That’s why she responded the way she did and said she couldn’t answer the hypothetical

[Katy M]

15 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

It continues to boggle me how Jon Lindstrom/Kevin isn't a part of this Esme storyline in any meaningful way. Wouldn't Kevin, ESME'S UNCLE, want to be the one to be with her in the interrogation room?

I feel like Kevin has mixed feelings about Esme. Yes, she's his niece.  but, that's because she's his psycho brother's daughter.

[perkie1968]

In case they don't give this to us tomorrow, here it is.  Kristina Wagner is fantastic

 

 

 

[PatsyandEddie]

Amazing scenes and completely gut wrenching. 😭

[tessabq]

It does not matter how many times I watch those scenes, I dissolve into tears every time.  One cannot say it was soap writing and acting at its finest, it was writing and acting at its finest, it went beyond genre.

[Suicidy]

18 hours ago, Artsda said:

Real Carly never would have forgotten Liz worked at Kelly's.  Carly was obsessed with it.  

Now matter how long LW plays Carly, it just doesn't work for me compared to SB and TB.

So a mobster assaults a felon and that rewards bail?

 

I don’t think most judges would deny bail for 2nd degree assault in NY.  They currently let people out accused of attempted murder without any bail in NYC.

[Suicidy]

46 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I feel like Kevin has mixed feelings about Esme. Yes, she's his niece.  but, that's because she's his psycho brother's daughter.

There should be more emphasis on their familial relationship.  Actually forming a relationship with a blood relative who isn’t a violent nutcase would be an interesting storyline for Esme.  Certainly better than Dikolas’ inane plan to ruin her.  
 

But the writers ensure we can’t have nice things.

21 hours ago, Katy M said:

The page I'm on, I feel like it's pretty evenly split that Willow should run for the hills and that she is the worst for not supporting Michael because Nina is the worst, so it's OK that he lied to her.  I mean, it's not even about Nina at this point, IMO. It's about the lie, and unlike other characters, she is also capable of seeing the parallel to her lie and how they're both not communicating with each other. Sure, he brought it up first, but she acknowledged his point. 

It would be one thing if he he was just withholding information.  But he also used said information to indirectly control her by blackmailing her mother.  Which is so gross.

Willow didn’t do anything that vile.

[Katy M]

36 minutes ago, Suicidy said:

It would be one thing if he he was just withholding information.  But he also used said information to indirectly control her by blackmailing her mother.  Which is so gross.

Willow didn’t do anything that vile.

100% agree. 

I also thought it was fine that Carly didn't reveal Harmony's secret that Nina was Willow's mother (as it wasn't her secret to tell). But, as soon as she snuck around getting DNA samples, directly lied to Drew, and then paid people off to throw him off the trail, she crossed the line.

 

[Suicidy]

10 minutes ago, Katy M said:

100% agree. 

I also thought it was fine that Carly didn't reveal Harmony's secret that Nina was Willow's mother (as it wasn't her secret to tell). But, as soon as she snuck around getting DNA samples, directly lied to Drew, and then paid people off to throw him off the trail, she crossed the line.

 

Yet is the heroine for doing all that.  Carly Prime is simultaneously the worst, and yet the most self righteous and judgmental character on the show.  And manages to be a total asshole doing it.

Which is where Carly, SLS Edition gets it.  

Edited January 9 by Suicidy

[JMO]

1 hour ago, tessabq said:

It does not matter how many times I watch those scenes, I dissolve into tears every time.  One cannot say it was soap writing and acting at its finest, it was writing and acting at its finest, it went beyond genre.

This was so well done that it would have had nearly the same emotional effect even if it had been a stand-alone.  But it wasn't.  By the time it aired, we'd already known about the deep bond between the brothers and experienced the friendships among all of the adults.  We'd even watched the same BJ grow up in front of us.  The pain was palpable, not just for the immediate situation, but for all that had come before.  

 

[JMO]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I feel like Kevin has mixed feelings about Esme. Yes, she's his niece.  but, that's because she's his psycho brother's daughter.

Kevin had mixed feelings about Ryan, even after all Ryan had put him through. He recognized the mental illness and the abuse Ryan had been through, and found a place of empathy.  Unless JL is simply not available, I do think we should see Kevin stepping up to help his niece.  It would have been nice to see that already underway.  Maybe we were supposed to imagine it happening while Esme was living with Kevin and Laura.  

[statsgirl]

Kevin is a psychiatrist so he would be all about making people better and dealing with traumas and problem behaviour. If anyone would want to help Esme be healthy, it would be him.

Also, if I am remembering correctly, Kevin felt some guilt because he got to be the one raised by the sane parent and Ryan had to go with the abusive one which contributed greatly to his problems. For that he should also want to help Esme.

So it doesn't make any sense that Kevin isn't involved in this story about his niece and her amnesia and abandonment consequences.

ETA: I heard that JL wrote a book. Maybe he's on a book tour?