S05.E10: Episode 10

[PrincessPurrsALot]

As wildfires threaten Los Angeles, Helen and Noah are forced to run for their lives and confront old wounds along the way.

Sweet sassy molassey!  Dramahz!  Helen and Noah running for their lives!  Fires raging all around them!  Greatest risk? Viewers suffering severe eyestrain from rolling them so hard.  Let's see if Noah and Helen survive.  And what about their backpacks?  Won't anyone think about their backpacks?  

Original air date 2019.10.27

[LoveLeigh]

OMG, in episode 9 weren't Helen and Trevor and Stacie at the end of their segment driving somewhere on a road with the smoke so thick Helen could hardly see the road? Where were they going and why was that dropped?

I am sorry, I laughed when Helen was bitten by that snake. It was too contrived and melodramatic for me. 

The acting was beyond great, but there is too much topical stuff inserted into these episodes like the #MeToo and the LA fires. I would rather they have stayed with the older plots and resolved them with only one episode left. I am just not interested in Whitney's wedding either because I just do not care about her. 

And of course, no Joanie. 

Edited October 27, 2019 by DakotaLavender

[DiabLOL]

Woooooow this was so boring it should have come with a free cup of coffee.

I absolutely howled with laughter when Helen was, of course, bitten by a snake.

Another episode with no Joanie. Why did they even bother with all that?

[LydiaE]

Cringeworthy snooze-fest.

Id have rather seen an entire episode of Joanie sleeping with all of the remaining men in Montauk.

[LoveLeigh]

55 minutes ago, LydiaE said:

Cringeworthy snooze-fest.

It was an acting tour de force. But the plot suffered. Too much is left hanging: Sierra's movie role and Helen's drive through the smoke.

This climb down the mountain was filler and a device for Helen and Noah to have a conversation. And there was so much confusion with all of them changing how they feel about each other: Whitney does not want Noah at her wedding, Helen tells Noah to burn... it is wacky. 

I needed Joanie. I needed to see Joanie and more Joanie.

[scrb]

Whitney shrieking.

Why does it not occur to Helen or Noah that she’s a bitch?

Calling someone else a narcissist while staring at herself in that painting?

They’re really proud of her, the choices that she’s made?

Do the show runner and writers really not know that the kids don’t come off well?  They show those flashbacks — Maura Tierney has aged a lot during this show — like they were a happy couple and family.

Then during their confessionals they both talk about their insecurities during their marriage.  Whitney says Noah uses people up, goes from people to people.  But he was married like 20 years!

Helen should have slapped Whitney when she called her codependent and should have slapped Noah when he said it too.

Poor John and what’s her name who wanted to live in Marina del Ray.  Movement is life indeed, though really melodramatic to have the husk of that burned out car with only Sasha’s vanity plate left.

That cliff they scaled down was no joke.  But those burned out cars are suppose to vindicate Noah for making her risk that?

With their confessionals, baring their souls to each other, I thought for a second they were going to kill off Helen with the snake bite.  Would have been colossally stupid to kill off a major character that way, just as the show ends.  

She survived a cheating husband, bitchy kids, an emo boyfriend and his parents, that god damn cliff Noah made her go over, only to be taken out by a rattle snake.

Instead they’re going to use the melodrama to bring them back together in the finale, since they “shared” this life-altering experience, poured their hearts out to each other.

🙄

[Stad15]

I liked the episode in that Noah and Helen were civil with each other.  And Whitney should just sink into the ocean.

Part 1 Helen

Part 2 Noah

Part 3 Noah and Helen

Part 4 Noah

😂😂😂

[NeenerNeener]

4 hours ago, scrb said:

Instead they’re going to use the melodrama to bring them back together in the finale, since they “shared” this life-altering experience, poured their hearts out to each other.

Yep. I will be really surprised if "coming full circle" doesn't mean they get back together.

And Whitney is still a brat; some things in this story never changed.

[cardigirl]

I liked this episode. I don't know if this was the arc the show runners had in mind at the beginning of the series, but I liked the honest talk between Noah and Helen as they hiked away from the fires. Especially when Helen described for Noah what the breakup of the marriage felt like for her.  I thought that was very truthful. And the fact that she was proud of having gotten through it. 

Neither one brought up the accidental death of Scotty, and Noah going to jail for Helen and Alison. I thought that maybe that would be addressed too, since they were going over the past. It still bothers me that they didn't just confess to that in the first place. It was an accident, all the way around. I guess, because they left the scene, the actual running away makes it more of a crime, and that they both had been drinking. But Alison pushing Scotty out at the exact moment they are driving by, made it impossible for anyone to have missed him, and who knows if Alison would have ever confessed that she pushed him to the police?

The image of the burned out cars made me think that Noah made the right choice to go get Helen, but I'd like to think that young couple walked on down to the main road. (I can pretend.)

The entire time Helen and Noah were hiking, I thought something might happen, a mountain lion or a snake, so I wasn't too surprised by the rattlesnake.  I was worried that Helen might die before the end of the series, though.  

I'm glad I've watched this show.  I've found a lot of great acting and a lot of what happens when a marriage (Long-term marriage) breaks up was represented truthfully and beautifully, in my opinion.  These things tend to follow patterns, I've found, and the writing for this has been really great.  I will miss the characters. 

[Stad15]

Normally I never liked Helen much, but Maura Tierney is such a good actress, she made me really like Helen the last two episodes.

[EtheltoTillie]

Movement is life!  Oops, no, snakebite—don’t move!  

Still I liked the episode. A good wrap up for them. 

[Razzberry]

I've only seen the first part so far, but love the way Narcissa's portrait looks even worse in Helen's POV.   And un-inviting Dad after he's paid for your wedding really takes some nerve.

DAMANN's car is awesome!  Anyone know what it is  was?

Edited October 27, 2019 by Razzberry

[LoveLeigh]

1 hour ago, Razzberry said:

DAMANN's car is awesome!  Anyone know what it is  was?

Bugatti Chiron? 

[sadie]

Helen had on entirely different clothes from when she walked out Noah’s door to when he found her in the car on the road? What woman would leave her purse behind? How long has Noah lived in that house that it could be that full and that junked up? It looked like he’d been there for 20 years. Helen falls asleep at Noah’s not at all concerned about her young children she left at Whitney? Poor sad sack Noah feeling sorry for himself when all his life’s problems are because of the bad selfish choices he made along the way continues to reinforce why I hate the character. 
 

This series has just gotten ridiculous. 

[cardigirl]

14 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

Bugatti Chiron? 

I thought it was a Tesla of some sort. 

[Razzberry]

Found it on YouTube, it is indeed a Tesla.  Those gullwing doors look rather cumbersome if not dangerous in a packed parking lot though.

 

[LotusFlower]

9 hours ago, Stad15 said:

And Whitney should just sink into the ocean.

LOL!  And yes.  

[preeya]

"If you fall I'll catch you"

Who writes this shit?

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I actually liked this episode minus the overly dramatic snake bite at the end. Also minus Noah feeling sorry for himself and crying and leaving Whitney's when Helen asked him not to leave. Actually, I could have done without that whole first act. Although I did like that Helen left the younger kids with Whitney so she could deal with them for awhile. I was surprised Whitney hadn't blown up Helen's phone the next morning begging her mom to take them back.

Maybe if I lived in California I would feel differently but I didn't mind they made a story out of the wildfires.

I had to laugh at the guy with the gun who didn't bother to lock his car doors. What an idiot. 

A car with a defense system against chemical warfare? The rich really do live in another world.

I hope the couple with the pregnant woman survived.

Noah and Helen climbing down that canyon was suspenseful to me. I didn't want either of them to die.

I really enjoyed their conversation with each other. I liked that both felt that they had something to apologize for and apologized. I liked that Noah asked Helen how the divorce was for her and that she got to verbalize how it felt and how proud she was to have gotten through it. Now I actually don't mind if they do end up together again. Plus that way they won't inflict themselves on any other poor unsuspecting fools who might fall in love with them. And bonus, it will really piss Whitney off.

[preeya]

16 hours ago, scrb said:

Instead they’re going to use the melodrama to bring them back together in the finale, since they “shared” this life-altering experience, poured their hearts out to each other.

Yep, that's my prediction for the end of this dreck. Full circle and Helen & Noah live happily ever after. Just like in the fairy tales.

[nara]

I enjoyed the episode.

I liked the honest conversation, especially Helen admitting that she didn’t have Noah’s back and Noah confirming what I always thought—Alison’s need to be rescued was a key factor.

I felt sad for Noah—thinking for 25 years that his wife threw away that lovely letter...

A couple of things:

Helen missed an opportunity to tell Whitney the truth about Scotty’s death.

As someone mentioned above, why does Helen not have a purse?

It felt like they were strolling from the fire rather  than quickly getting to safety. Maybe that was to facilitate the conversation, but still...

I wish we knew if the kids bothered to check to see if they’re ok.

And finally...is it bad that I hope Sasha saw the same newscast with the burnt shell of his car? 😆

[chick binewski]

19 hours ago, scrb said:

Whitney shrieking.

Why does it not occur to Helen or Noah that she’s a bitch?

Calling someone else a narcissist while staring at herself in that painting?

They’re really proud of her, the choices that she’s made?

Do the show runner and writers really not know that the kids don’t come off well?  They show those flashbacks — Maura Tierney has aged a lot during this show — like they were a happy couple and family.

14 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I liked this episode. I don't know if this was the arc the show runners had in mind at the beginning of the series, but I liked the honest talk between Noah and Helen as they hiked away from the fires. Especially when Helen described for Noah what the breakup of the marriage felt like for her.  I thought that was very truthful. And the fact that she was proud of having gotten through it.

Truly, I don't know any mom who wouldn't have cracked that portrait over Whitney's head. I understand the writers have to create drama, but they surely could have pared this season down to 10 episodes and left Whitney's bs POV on the cutting room floor. If memory serves she was bullying classmates into suicide attempts and sleeping with Cole before she found out about her dad's affair. Nevermind that she's like 25 now and still thinks her birth certificate is her parents' responsibility to keep safe and have on hand at a moment's notice.

I did like Helen's confession how the affair made her feel (but also - what stomach lady you are tiny), but also that Noah thought she discarded the wedding day letter - those two small moments felt very much like we were watching S1 characters, which I haven't seen for a while.

I really think Dominic West has done his best to turn some chicken shit characterization into chicken salad this year. Also, favorite credit tonight... "Rich Asshole". 

[TexasGal]

4 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I hope the couple with the pregnant woman survived.

I’m sure we will never find out.

So Helen took the Tesla from Malibu to wherever Whitney lives in LA, then to Noah’s and back to evacuate from the fire.  That battery has a hell of a charge.  Or maybe in 2 years there will just be charging stations on every corner and at everyone’s house.  

Have we had a joint perspective before?

[T Summer]

6 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

Truly, I don't know any mom who wouldn't have cracked that portrait over Whitney's head. I understand the writers have to create drama, but they surely could have pared this season down to 10 episodes and left Whitney's bs POV on the cutting room floor. If memory serves she was bullying classmates into suicide attempts and sleeping with Cole before she found out about her dad's affair. Nevermind that she's like 25 now and still thinks her birth certificate is her parents' responsibility to keep safe and have on hand at a moment's notice.

I did like Helen's confession how the affair made her feel (but also - what stomach lady you are tiny), but also that Noah thought she discarded the wedding day letter - those two small moments felt very much like we were watching S1 characters, which I haven't seen for a while.

I really think Dominic West has done his best to turn some chicken shit characterization into chicken salad this year. Also, favorite credit tonight... "Rich Asshole". 

I know you meant Scotty.

Cole would never!

[cardigirl]

Whitney slept with and got pregnant by Scotty, not Cole.

[Blakeston]

I just caught up on the season. I have to say, I actually find the show's take on #MeToo interesting.

They made it very easy for us to resent the accusers, and believe they were lying or exaggerating. But then the script supervisor's story reminded us that Noah really has been horrifically awful to women. And considering how ridiculously skewed his POV is, we can't trust much of what we saw transpire with these women. With six different people coming forward, he probably was guilty of some hideous stuff. Whitney was a brat in this episode (from what we saw), but she's got a point about him.

That said, I find it bizarre and even offensive that Audrey's story is being compared to the other stories of outright sexual abuse, and regarded as a good example of a #MeToo incident. A professor saying dismissive things to a student isn't right, but it certainly isn't a news story, or something that should be used to destroy the professor's life a decade later.

How much do you want to bet that Sarah Treem had a professor who said something similar to her, and this is her way of bemoaning how victimized she was?

[T Summer]

38 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I just caught up on the season. I have to say, I actually find the show's take on #MeToo interesting.

They made it very easy for us to resent the accusers, and believe they were lying or exaggerating. But then the script supervisor's story reminded us that Noah really has been horrifically awful to women. And considering how ridiculously skewed his POV is, we can't trust much of what we saw transpire with these women. With six different people coming forward, he probably was guilty of some hideous stuff. Whitney was a brat in this episode (from what we saw), but she's got a point about him.

That said, I find it bizarre and even offensive that Audrey's story is being compared to the other stories of outright sexual abuse, and regarded as a good example of a #MeToo incident. A professor saying dismissive things to a student isn't right, but it certainly isn't a news story, or something that should be used to destroy the professor's life a decade later.

How much do you want to bet that Sarah Treem had a professor who said something similar to her, and this is her way of bemoaning how victimized she was?

I know. I've pointed out a few times she shouldn't be lumped in with the others alleging sexual impropriety.

Do you think it should stop him from being allowed to teach?

Edited October 28, 2019 by T Summer
yook out 1st sentence as it was intended for another post

[T Summer]

Last night I watched the ep and it made me emotional thinking of the way Helen and Noah were  in early s1. I was thinking it would be a little easier to stomach watching the inevitable reunion of the two. 🙄After  watching  a second time I'm so angry at Noah!

After all this worthless POS  has put Helen through he has the gall to say  to her, when she's trying to get him to leave his house and not  burn  in it...

I think Whitney is right Helen, you have this weird codependency or obsession with me. You shouldn't be here. I'm not your husband anymore  ????? WOW!

When they set off and  left the car and got to the ridge Helen should have had Noah point out the way to the beach access road  and threw him off  of it instead of that rock! Then  she should have climbed down stepped over his broken bones 👣and walked out  to safety. Not talking to that lowlife  asshat she could have watched  out for dangers like holes, rattlesnakes and mountain lions.

During the walk and talk...

"No you didn't" (have my back and stand up against Bruce and Margaret)  said Noah. What an awful  awful person!

She absolutely DID tell her mother  to stop trying to provoke her husband when Margaret said  Noah accepted their help with the kids private school  tuition while he spoke out about the evils of capitalism,  egalitarian ideals and the like .

In their united front it's you and me against the  world  days  in the very  early  episodes Helen made fun of her parents pomposity and told Noah to ignore them, like when  Bruce  recited that old adage they say everyone has one good book in them almost no one has two;  insinuating Noah was  talentless or a  slacker.

Helen allowed Noah to escape living a lower middle class lifestyle and live an affluent one, and to have NO financial worries.

Helen   had a store  and supported him. Even if he taught, he  was free to work on his writing most of the time. Try that with a year round job or two, you worthless user.

She had 4 children like he wanted, where she only wanted 2.He also encouraged her to abort the 1st one when they weren't ready, IIRC.

They continued to have an active sex life after 4 kids and she flattered him and built  up his ego.

Helen believed in Noah  as a writer  and encouraged him.

Being connected to Bruce  did help Noah get to a better   editor and publishers than he would have on his own and helped him achieve his dreams.

She offered to take him back after he'd been out collecting STD's, and she promised SHE"D change! @&%#$? OMG!!!!

WHAT ELSE DID HE WANT?

THEN he said (about Alison) "You're right, I did love her. I was crazy about her."

1. it didn't seem so... for so  many reasons

2. Does Helen really need to hear that?  Hey Noah, ever hear the expression Discretion is the better part of valor?

Oh,  how I HATE N.F.S.! 😡

Hey Noah,  you didn't need to nurse hurt feweengs  for 25+ years thinking  Helen threw away your  love letter. You could have asked 25 years ago did you  mean to throw this out?

[bobbyjoe]

Cynical as I’ve been about this season, I actually liked this episode a lot.  The long two-person stretch with Helen and Noah just talking felt like Treem returning to her In Treatment roots, and Helen and Noah finally having an adult conversation about what it all meant feels like one of the few things the show has actually dramatically earned this season and that the audience deserves to see.

The climbing down the cliff thing I can put up with as a metaphor even though it’s a bit on the nose, but the snakebite was just silly.  Still, the final shot of Noah and Helen calling each other “friend” was great, and really would have worked as the end of the series— leaving them a little more reconciled but their future still ambiguous.  

It’s kind of a shame there’s one more episode to go, because there are a lot of ways this can go off the rails again, particularly with that future Joanie storyline still lingering about.

[LoveLeigh]

On 10/28/2019 at 12:20 AM, bobbyjoe said:

It’s kind of a shame there’s one more episode to go, because there are a lot of ways this can go off the rails again, particularly with that future Joanie storyline still lingering about.

I don't think they are going to spend too much time on Joanie. All of her segments thus far have been silly and contrived. And old Ben was a total joke. They shoehorned his segment in like some Hitchcock show from 1962. Did Joanie sign "Joanie" or "Gabrielle" which would make those papers totally invalid. And so many could  verify she was never his patient.

Is Treem's head warm? 

Edited October 31, 2019 by DakotaLavender

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, T Summer said:

I know. I've pointed out a few times she shouldn't be lumped in with the others alleging sexual impropriety.

Do you think it should stop him from being allowed to teach?

The "you don't have an inner life" comment was cruel, but I don't think that on its own is enough to justify firing him.

As for the rest of Audrey's complaints about him, I honestly don't remember very well how he treated her (or his other students). I just remember the over-the-top rants from the students re: gender relations and sexual assault.

Can someone remind me of the context in which he made the comment about how someone can enjoy sex even if they don't consent? I've heard various people make similar comments, in unoffensive ways, when discussing how rape survivors often feel complicit afterward just because they enjoyed the sex. It's all about the context, and I don't recall the context there.

[T Summer]

10 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

The "you don't have an inner life" comment was cruel, but I don't think that on its own is enough to justify firing him.

As for the rest of Audrey's complaints about him, I honestly don't remember very well how he treated her (or his other students). I just remember the over-the-top rants from the students re: gender relations and sexual assault.

Can someone remind me of the context in which he made the comment about how someone can enjoy sex even if they don't consent? I've heard various people make similar comments, in unoffensive ways, when discussing how rape survivors often feel complicit afterward just because they enjoyed the sex. It's all about the context, and I don't recall the context there.

He wrote about the rape  scene with Alison up against the tree at the retreat in his book and discussed it w/ POSF and students saying "a woman need not consent to sex to enjoy it".

By concluding that Audrey had nothing of interest to say and on the other hand going all out to make sure Anton didn't fail to stay engaged and take advantage of every possible educational opportunity... that tells me how little regard Noah has for young women  he doesn't deem (and I'll be PG here) doable.

[LydiaE]

57 minutes ago, T Summer said:

THEN he said (about Alison) "You're right, I did love her. I was crazy about her."

1. it didn't seem so... for so  many reasons

2. Does Helen really need to hear that?  Hey Noah, ever hear the expression Discretion is the better part of valor?

Yeah; Noah was always an ass and I never did get what the attraction was between Noah and Alison. Alison had literally no personality, was a complete downer, and her face and voice were really grating. Granted, Noah had a great body for a man his age, or any age for that matter. The non-dad-bod didn’t make up for his simpering personality and boring sexual repertoire.

It’s actually been hard to root for anyone in this show. Cole was also a perpetual Debbie Downer, a criminal, and a hypocritical drama queen. Helen has a good sense of humor and loves her children, but she cheated on Vic, like, three times. You feel sorry for him until you remember he cheated on her and knocked up the neighbor.

Wasn't the show supposed to be about the origin of a single affair and its impact? Did everyone have to cheat? Is Trevor cheating on Hunter now? Even Oscar was able to cheat and that’s just gross...

[ScoobieDoobs]

Well, if you could get past the really contrived nature of this ep, it wasn't bad.  Why?  Cuz the dialogue between Noah & Helen was an interesting series wrap-up.  But sheesh, there was just so much that didn't make any sense.  And it kept feeling like Noah-saves-Helen or Helen-saves-Noah & then rinse, lather & repeat.

Did it make sense that Helen & Noah were the ONLY ones to take that route?  Or that Helen would have NO handbag (as stated above)?  Or that they would be able to walk what seemed like miles & miles & miles AND scale that cliff -- without all that much effort?  I mean shit, they look fit, but they are both over 50.  Uh, are they both comic book super heroes too?

For me, the best part of this ep was the momentary appearance of Ruth Wilson.  It's good that Treem didn't forget her.  Would there have been any show without her?  And I don't just mean Alison, I mean Ruth Wilson & her strong presence & terrific acting.

Helen did bring up something intriguing about Noah that I've thought about -- that sure, we know he can be a thoughtless asshole & a user, but he's also capable of being compassionate & caring.  So yeah, his personality does seem all over the place, but it seems like he was mostly a nice family guy before he met Alison & then sorta turned into the  monster we've seen on the show.  He did sorta explain that in their convo.

What hasn't been brought up much on the show are the details of Helen's & Noah's marriage before he met Alison.  Helen has NEVER said Noah cheated on her before Alison or that he mistreated her or the kids.  OK, this was Noah's POV, but he said in the court testimony, he mostly described his marriage & home life as happy.  Hmmm.  Idk, I liked them calling each other "friend".  After all the shit they've been thru, it seemed kinda sweet.

[T Summer]

1 hour ago, LydiaE said:

Yeah; Noah was always an ass and I never did get what the attraction was between Noah and Alison. Alison had literally no personality, was a complete downer, and her face and voice were really grating. Granted, Noah had a great body for a man his age, or any age for that matter. The non-dad-bod didn’t make up for his simpering personality and boring sexual repertoire.

It’s actually been hard to root for anyone in this show. Cole was also a perpetual Debbie Downer, a criminal, and a hypocritical drama queen. Helen has a good sense of humor and loves her children, but she cheated on Vic, like, three times. You feel sorry for him until you remember he cheated on her and knocked up the neighbor.

Wasn't the show supposed to be about the origin of a single affair and its impact? Did everyone have to cheat? Is Trevor cheating on Hunter now? Even Oscar was able to cheat and that’s just gross...

To me the draw of this show has been the acting. I've watched it in spite of the writing which has been so simplistic seemingly giving us characters who are all bad like Noah or all good like Helen. No real person is like that.. except maybe Whitney 🥁Now this year they've taken to having characters be one way in one episode then having them act completely differently one  or two on. Colin leaps to mind.

First we meet him at Thanksgiving and he's sweet and kind and funny and takes all Whitney's moods and outbursts in stride and assures everyone he can take it...  for a lifetime. Next  hard working overburdened Whitney🙄 is living with him pussy-footing around like she dare not pour a glass of wine or complain about no coffee because there's someone Ike Turnerlike lurking just beneath the surface.  Now he's back to being a  great understanding guy who doesn't even get bent out of shape when Whitney confesses to sleeping with Furcat.

Helen? Cheated on Vik 3 times? I can only recall Max the college chum. I always rooted for Helen and Cole and thought Noah and Alison were just not very good people.

If you take away her personal tragedy of having lost a 4 year old child, there's not much to warm to about Alison in my eyes anyway. The mot poorly written character of the four principals by miles. Alison sometimes let herself by taken advantage of and at other times she more than stood up for herself. When Cherry thought she could keep Alison in line by threatening to tell Cole about her indiscretion with Noah, Alison gave as good as she got and threatened Cherry with telling the boys the ranch was nearly worthless.

Our last look(s) at Alison were completely ridiculous. Armed with the info her new boyfriend Ben was married and pretty annoyed by his having lied about it she was 100% planning to call him on it. Someone who works in the mental health field could definetely figure out that would be better handled in a public place, especially if you know he has/had PTSD and you recently saw him  tackle a guy in your office.

She was never any self effacing shrinking violet with Noah, Oscar, the dude she was giving P.T. in Cold Springs (Yvonne's husband), and what about that scene in the courthouse hall  with atty. Gottleif  "any decisions about my husband's defense GO THROUGH  ME!"

Puh-lease!🙄

I liked Cole's character quite a bit  more than you did and people have to keep reminding me about the coke dealing. Once Alison told him no, I don't want to forget Gabriel... I want to forget  about you,  he had ALL my sympathy. Other than the illegal coke dealing I don't see what people have against Cole?  He was so gallant and protective of Alison even after he found out she'd been with another man. I'm remembering when he went to NYC to find her and stopped her from sitting on the curb lest she get dirty. Didn't he put something down for her to sit on?  Then there was the way he was with  Whitney who'd been chasing after Scotty, when he drove her all the way back to her father's apartment in NYC.  She was all... but I love him! He said ok, so? Just because you love someone, does not mean they have to love you back. 😪

When Alison surfaced  from Woodlawn after 6 months and they had him being so short  with her during  the visitation with Joanie discussions, it really didn't sound like Cole's character from the 3 seasons before. He probably quit the show when he got his pages for season 5. 🎬lol

People have said Cole was awful to Luisa but again I think his character's arc suffered from bad writing. There he was assuring Alison in this uberplatonic conversation just before the ceremony how sure he was that he loved Luisa and wanted to marry her, and then 6 months later Alison surfaces and they're back in bed together and back in love with each other. Cole's character up until that point never struck me as not knowing his own mind and his own convictions. Plus, all of a sudden Cole's reminding Alison of Gabriel is no longer a deal breaker; it's no longer traumatizing to Alison. He vowed to do the right thing and not hurt Luisa and then of course came the conflict when Luisa wanted him to declare Alison an unfit mother to help her immigration case, his refusal  to do so and Cherry suggesting he go away  and take stock of his priorities. It was hard for me, but I was hoping Cole would make it back to reunite with Alison because it's what HE wanted.

Who did Oscar cheat with? When he was newly married and had a son he referred to as Little O, they showed a budding friendship between former enemies Cole and Oscar. When they were talking at Cole's new house building site, Oscar surmised Cole was once again sleeping with Alison. Cole as much as confirmed his suspicions and Oscar said something like don't let Luisa find out, but I don't remember anything about him cheating? Do tell.

lol

[T Summer]

1 hour ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Well, if you could get past the really contrived nature of this ep, it wasn't bad.  Why?  Cuz the dialogue between Noah & Helen was an interesting series wrap-up.  But sheesh, there was just so much that didn't make any sense.  And it kept feeling like Noah-saves-Helen or Helen-saves-Noah & then rinse, lather & repeat.

Did it make sense that Helen & Noah were the ONLY ones to take that route?  Or that Helen would have NO handbag (as stated above)?  Or that they would be able to walk what seemed like miles & miles & miles AND scale that cliff -- without all that much effort?  I mean shit, they look fit, but they are both over 50.  Uh, are they both comic book super heroes too?

For me, the best part of this ep was the momentary appearance of Ruth Wilson.  It's good that Treem didn't forget her.  Would there have been any show without her?  And I don't just mean Alison, I mean Ruth Wilson & her strong presence & terrific acting.

Helen did bring up something intriguing about Noah that I've thought about -- that sure, we know he can be a thoughtless asshole & a user, but he's also capable of being compassionate & caring.  So yeah, his personality does seem all over the place, but it seems like he was mostly a nice family guy before he met Alison & then sorta turned into the  monster we've seen on the show.  He did sorta explain that in their convo.

What hasn't been brought up much on the show are the details of Helen's & Noah's marriage before he met Alison.  Helen has NEVER said Noah cheated on her before Alison or that he mistreated her or the kids.  OK, this was Noah's POV, but he said in the court testimony, he mostly described his marriage & home life as happy.  Hmmm.  Idk, I liked them calling each other "friend".  After all the shit they've been thru, it seemed kinda sweet.

ScoobyDoobs,

Did you notice in the previouslies they showed some scenes from early in s1 and they called each other friend?

In that couples therapy session where Alison never showed Noah decided to stay and talk to Marilyn (Cynthia Nixon) and  he said he was a faithful husband for 25 years until  he made ONE mistake...

He then stammered  and tried to save face and said not that I'm saying my relationship with Alison was a mistake.

[stormy weather]

On 10/27/2019 at 6:21 AM, DakotaLavender said:

I am sorry, I laughed when Helen was bitten by that snake. It was too contrived and melodramatic for me. 

And with that ominous baseball cap that said "The End"! Come on! I was waiting for something to happen to her since they left the car. 

On 10/27/2019 at 8:17 AM, scrb said:

Whitney shrieking.

Why does it not occur to Helen or Noah that she’s a bitch?

Calling someone else a narcissist while staring at herself in that painting?

They’re really proud of her, the choices that she’s made?

Do the show runner and writers really not know that the kids don’t come off well?  They show those flashbacks — Maura Tierney has aged a lot during this show — like they were a happy couple and family.

Then during their confessionals they both talk about their insecurities during their marriage.  Whitney says Noah uses people up, goes from people to people.  But he was married like 20 years!

Helen should have slapped Whitney when she called her codependent and should have slapped Noah when he said it too.

Honestly, during that scene I wanted to turn the TV off but I kept watching just because I was hoping with all my being Helen would finally give Whitney the long overdue slap across the face she's been deserving for the past 25 years of her life. Whitney should realize Helen and Noah failed as parents not because of what she accused them of, but because they allow her to throw around accusations and have this kind of fits without, I'm not saying flinging her across the room (because that's what my mom would've done with me if had thrown a tantrum like that at 25 years of age), but even confronting her, arguing back or telling her to calm the fuck down. It's like they're afraid of her or something. 
Parents are people too, Whitney, they make mistakes and their life doesn't revolve around yours. 
Also we've seen so little of Martin that, when in the following scene Colin came in with Trevor and Stacey, for a minute I thought it was the prodigal son coming back from the Swiss Alps or wherever he's studying at. I seem to recall they kind of look alike but I might be wrong 'cause who even vaguely remembers what Martin looks like at this point.

Another detail that bothered me, apart from the case of the missing handbag, was the timing of this scene at Whitney's. So Helen left Noah on the couch and told him not to go anywhere and then she talked to Whitney for two minutes, went back to the living room, found out Noah had left, kids came in, talked to them for another two minutes, then rushed out to drive to Noah's and found him already passed out drunk on the bed, which means Noah got home like 5 minutes before Helen yet he managed in that time to drink himself to unresponsive comatose sleep. I know I'm nitpicking but not even teenagers can get that wasted in 5 minutes. I hoped Noah's POV would've coincided with Helen's to see how this impossible time-warp unraveled and also because I wanted to see how Noah would react to hearing Whitney speaking to her mom like that. 

Also a bit stretched was how, after Helen and Noah were asked by the police to pick up people on foot if they had room in the car, Helen found (instead of, I don't know, an uninteresting yet more plausible old man plus dog) a heavily pregnant couple whom quite unbelievably nobody had picked up yet, not even an ambulance, who were exactly at the stage of the relationship (young, about to have first child, bickering) Helen and Noah were just reminiscing about, just so that she could give them (and herself) some precious insight. But I have to admit I was 100% sure the girl was gonna go into labor in the car and it didn't happen, so yay Treem for that. 

Anyway, I've always said Helen and Noah would get back together at the end of the show and honestly, I'm fine with that. Assuming they're both in their mid 50s, I think forgetting and forgiving the past and admitting to yourself that it's acceptable to grow old in a "companionship" with someone who knows you better than anyone, is the father of your children, is your friend and sure, made some mistakes but genuinely cares about you, is a pretty mature choice. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by stormy weather

[Stad15]

Of course Sasha's car license plate says "DA MANN".  😂

[Lsk02]

2 hours ago, stormy weather said:

On 10/27/2019 at 12:21 AM, DakotaLavender said:

 

And with that ominous baseball cap that said "The End"! Come on! I was waiting for something to happen to her since they left the car. 

The End was the bar in Montauk where many of the events of season 1 were centered. I thought it was a nice callback. They may have been trying to be too obvious with the impending fires, but I took it to be more about tying everything together, as they did in the conversation. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Lsk02

[Blakeston]

11 hours ago, chick binewski said:

Truly, I don't know any mom who wouldn't have cracked that portrait over Whitney's head.

One of the most frustrating things about this show is that characters who are usually aggressive will turn silent and meek when someone treats them horribly.

For example, why the hell didn't Helen call Whitney out on how over-the-top and cruel her rant was? Helen should have reminded Whitney that she was throwing herself at drug-dealing statutory rapist Scotty Lockhart before she had any inkling that her father was cheating. Her issues with men can't all be blamed on Noah's affair.

And why didn't Whitney rip into Furkat after he denied her the curating job and told her to leave his apartment? She had no reason to kiss his ass after that.

Also, why did Helen just stand there and take Priya's abuse when Priya was furious that Helen wouldn't pretend to be Eddie's mother at a moment's notice?

[nara]

Off topic. But does anyone know if the lighthouse in the credits is the same one as in the final season of How I met your mother? For some reason I just noticed it in this episode.

[HC87]

This has to be the 'most all ovah the place, laughably fascinatingly odd" final season of a series in TV history.

I thought I was watching a repeat of a 1974 "Emergency" episode for much of last night's viewing.

[esco1822]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

One of the most frustrating things about this show is that characters who are usually aggressive will turn silent and meek when someone treats them horribly.

For example, why the hell didn't Helen call Whitney out on how over-the-top and cruel her rant was? Helen should have reminded Whitney that she was throwing herself at drug-dealing statutory rapist Scotty Lockhart before she had any inkling that her father was cheating. Her issues with men can't all be blamed on Noah's affair.

And why didn't Whitney rip into Furkat after he denied her the curating job and told her to leave his apartment? She had no reason to kiss his ass after that.

Also, why did Helen just stand there and take Priya's abuse when Priya was furious that Helen wouldn't pretend to be Eddie's mother at a moment's notice?

I think Helen has historically taken a lot of crap from the people she has loved and when she has tremendous amounts of guilt. I think what held her back from correcting Whitney was that she wasn't entirely sure it was untrue. With Priya it was all guilt. Same with Vic when he was verbally abusive. I think this all goes back to Helen telling Noah that his impression upon meeting her was wrong. She's praised for her strength and kindness and really underneath there is a mountain of self-doubt and fear.  In reality she SHOULD  have always stood up to her mother, Noah, Priya, Vic and the ever hateful Whitney but what held her back was always the fear that they were right about her. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Jeez, that Irish guy just annoys the absolute piss outta me.  Every time his pasty, gaunt mug appears, I ask my TV — Hey, whiny Whitney, why the fuck are ya marrying this loser?

[Diane12251]

Personally, I thought Episode 10 was great, and that both Dominic West and Maura Tierney were amazing. Some of the situations in which they found themselves were a little implausible, but the overall tone of the episode and the acting was so good that it didn’t matter to me. I loved seeing Noah and Helen be so honest with each other about the past, and the points they touched in their conversations showed how deeply they both care for each other still, after all that has happened. I think they are working their way back to each other, and at the end of the series, I think they will be back together, to live out their lives together again. There were so many metaphors in this episode – Sasha’s burnt car being just one of them. Scaling down the cliff, Helen having to rely on Noah to guide her. Noah carrying Helen after she gets bitten by the rattlesnake. Them calling each other “Friend” at the end. I thought the whole episode was very touching.

I'm not thrilled about the series finale being about Whitney's wedding.  I saw a clip of Helen helping Whitney get into her wedding dress, and I just wanted to slap Whitney - she's such a bitch.  But I will say, she stays true to her character through it all.  I really hope they tie up some loose ends, and go to the future timeline again.  Joanie actually bringing Ben down would be great so those who are still around who knew Alison would know that she didn't commit suicide as they have thought for so many years.  Seeing EJ again and finding out if he really is Sierra's son.  Seeing Noah and Helen together, in their old age.  Finding out if Whitney is still the bitch she always was.  Just a few things to finish it off properly.

[nara]

59 minutes ago, Diane12251 said:

 Finding out if Whitney is still the bitch she always was. 

“Ain't it funny how your new life didn't change things?
You're still the same old girl you used to be”

(with apologies to the Eagles)

[ScoobieDoobs]

So was Helen auditioning for her 400th career as a couples counselor, with those 2 who looked like they wandered off from Coachella?

You’re definitely very topical, Treem — but why’d you make this season feel so much like watching CNN?

[preeya]

41 minutes ago, nara said:

“Ain't it funny how your new life didn't change things?
You're still the same old girl you used to be”

(with apologies to the Eagles)

Good one. Lyin' Eyes one of my favorite tunes.

[DiabLOL]

When Helen kept saying to Whitney how "we made you" was that some clue wrt the opening song lyrics?

[ScoobieDoobs]

Sorry, Helen, but I don’t think you EVER coulda pulled off “easy going”.  But thanks for the quick giggle that you actually thought you did or could.