S05.E10: Episode 10

[stormy weather]

12 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Jeez, that Irish guy just annoys the absolute piss outta me.  Every time his pasty, gaunt mug appears, I ask my TV — Hey, whiny Whitney, why the fuck are ya marrying this loser?

Well, it's not like he's winning the game of life by marrying her either. Colin can be annoying sometimes (but remember it's always from Whitney's POV), but can you imagine spending the rest of your existence with "teenage angst" Whitney?! I'm not sure he knows what he's in for.

[preeya]

7 hours ago, stormy weather said:

Well, it's not like he's winning the game of life by marrying her either. Colin can be annoying sometimes (but remember it's always from Whitney's POV), but can you imagine spending the rest of your existence with "teenage angst" Whitney?! I'm not sure he knows what he's in for.

He's in it for a green card and perhaps to dip his ding-dong, but this is not a long term relationship.

[cardigirl]

I don't think Colin is in it just for the green card. From any other character's point of view, he has come across as kind and loving towards Whitney. I liked his speech about wanting a green card so he could be with Whitney, not so he could stay in this "god-forsaken country."  He's not alone in thinking the U.S. has issues, especially about immigration and citizenship. Ireland definitely has its own issues too, but I don't dislike him for his point of view. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by cardigirl

[JenE4]

On 10/27/2019 at 2:47 PM, Razzberry said:

I've only seen the first part so far, but love the way Narcissa's portrait looks even worse in Helen's POV.   And un-inviting Dad after he's paid for your wedding really takes some nerve.

DAMANN's car is awesome!  Anyone know what it is  was?

I thought it was interesting that Whitney‘s has her face hiding behind her hand—more timid and sad—as opposed to Helen’s memory, which makes her look more angry.

What’s with Trevor coming home from getting ice cream saying he’s starving and getting MORE ice cream out of the freezer? It wasn’t a “difference in memory” because Stacy came in the door eating her ice cream. I don’t know why that one scene made me irrationally irritated—probably because there was no point to it to begin with! On the other hand, I liked the detail of Helen wearing The End hat, literally the end of the series, and a callback to the bar/inn in Mountauk where it all started. Though, wasn’t Scotty or Allison walking there on that fateful night and he died by the sign? so kind of an odd souvenir to hang onto!

I really thought it was going to end up with Noah “I only have one thing to do and that’s be the way that I am and sink back into the ocean[be consumed by wildfires].” Or, he would literally “Go screamin’ into the canyon at the moment of his death and the echooo he created outlasted his last breath...” And that was going to be the point of introducing 39 new characters/storylines at the end here to show us how Noah Fucking Solloway impacted all of these people’s lives—how one poor choice by Noah Fucking Solloway ruined the life and careers and emotional state for anyone remotely in his orbit and for the next 50 years onward. I mean, those damn hitchhikers and unborn child got into Helen’s car because she was on the way back from Noah’s and they died—and probably would have been okay if they just kept walking, as Helen said at that point they were in the car for 3 hours plus another hour for the wildfires to get there when Noah left.

Edited October 29, 2019 by JenE4

[Lone Wolf]

Hope the snake survived.

[T Summer]

Did they do something to make Noah look really rough  this ep / lately?

All this time I thought Maura Tierney was probably 47-51 and Dominic West was 56, 57.

He's only 45 and she's 54!

[MaggieG]

Obviously this was a plot point to get Helen to Noah's house, but I thought it was odd that Noah and Helen split up the passports and birth certificates for the kids. The reason was so neither of them could flee the country with all 4 kids? First of all, why would anyone want to flee the country with the Solloway kids? Second of all, didn't Helen have custody after the divorce? I feel like the parent that has custody should hold onto that kind of stuff. Third of all, even if Helen or Noah would want to move to another country with the kids, they would need permission from a judge. I guess they could flee, but they were both born and raised as Americans and I don't see them fleeing the country. Plus, Noah was with Allison after the divorce and then went to prison. I'm pretty sure Helen had the passports when Noah was locked up.

My parents divorced when I was young and my mom had full custody with my dad having weekend visitation. My mom had all of our important documents. Maybe other children of divorce or divorced couples with kids could chime in. I just thought it was a weird thing to do, but then again, it's Noah and Helen😜

[TexasGal]

12 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

The reason was so neither of them could flee the country with all 4 kids? First of all, why would anyone want to flee the country with the Solloway kids?

Especially Whitney.  I mean, just give that brat her own documents and be done with it.  😂

Which reminds me, I wonder if Noah thought to put her birth certificate into his backpack before the great hike.  And whichever of the other kid's papers he had since he house was supposed to burn down.

[Blakeston]

On 10/28/2019 at 1:30 PM, esco1822 said:

I think Helen has historically taken a lot of crap from the people she has loved and when she has tremendous amounts of guilt. I think what held her back from correcting Whitney was that she wasn't entirely sure it was untrue. With Priya it was all guilt. Same with Vic when he was verbally abusive. I think this all goes back to Helen telling Noah that his impression upon meeting her was wrong. She's praised for her strength and kindness and really underneath there is a mountain of self-doubt and fear.  In reality she SHOULD  have always stood up to her mother, Noah, Priya, Vic and the ever hateful Whitney but what held her back was always the fear that they were right about her. 

The thing is, Helen had no problem ranting and raving at Priya on the day of her son's funeral. Or locking her parents inside a panic room and leaving them to rot. Her guilt seems to come and go depending on the needs of the plot.

2 hours ago, MaggieG said:

Obviously this was a plot point to get Helen to Noah's house, but I thought it was odd that Noah and Helen split up the passports and birth certificates for the kids. The reason was so neither of them could flee the country with all 4 kids? First of all, why would anyone want to flee the country with the Solloway kids? Second of all, didn't Helen have custody after the divorce? I feel like the parent that has custody should hold onto that kind of stuff. Third of all, even if Helen or Noah would want to move to another country with the kids, they would need permission from a judge. I guess they could flee, but they were both born and raised as Americans and I don't see them fleeing the country. Plus, Noah was with Allison after the divorce and then went to prison. I'm pretty sure Helen had the passports when Noah was locked up.

My parents divorced when I was young and my mom had full custody with my dad having weekend visitation. My mom had all of our important documents. Maybe other children of divorce or divorced couples with kids could chime in. I just thought it was a weird thing to do, but then again, it's Noah and Helen😜

It would have made a lot more sense if one parent had kept all of the kids' passports, and the other one had all of the kids' birth certificates. 

[AngelaHunter]

On 10/27/2019 at 3:17 AM, scrb said:

Whitney shrieking.

Why does it not occur to Helen or Noah that she’s a bitch?

Calling someone else a narcissist while staring at herself in that painting?

Took me all this time to watch this. Whitney! I really don't know why Colin wants to forsake all others for her. Have we ever seen her where she's not shrieking, sulking, crying,  raging, being a bitch, or her face not twisted into a sneer? She's so unappealing.

On 10/28/2019 at 7:17 AM, stormy weather said:

And with that ominous baseball cap that said "The End"! Come on! I was waiting for something to happen to her since they left the car. 

Yes - "The End". I really thought both of them might fall from the cliff and turn this into an episode of "I Shouldn't be Alive."

But, overall - I enjoyed an episode that was blessedly free of Sierra, Furkat, Sasha, Noah's former harpies and all the cartoon characters.

[Razzberry]

OMG  As Noah runs out sobbing, Whitney once again takes over these pathetic parents.  All the apologizing, walking on eggshells, and hurt reactions to her rants suggests she's right.   

What I really wanna know is what happened to Sasha's car roof?

[T Summer]

On 10/27/2019 at 3:17 AM, scrb said:

Whitney shrieking.

Why does it not occur to Helen or Noah that she’s a bitch?

Calling someone else a narcissist while staring at herself in that painting?

They’re really proud of her, the choices that she’s made?

Do the show runner and writers really not know that the kids don’t come off well?  They show those flashbacks — Maura Tierney has aged a lot during this show — like they were a happy couple and family.

Then during their confessionals they both talk about their insecurities during their marriage.  Whitney says Noah uses people up, goes from people to people.  But he was married like 20 years!

Helen should have slapped Whitney when she called her codependent and should have slapped Noah when he said it too.

Amen! Especially to that last part!

Helen knows Whitney's a bitch. Remember that s4 ep when she came home for Thanksgiving with Colin? Things weren't as she expected with Vik dying and all and she started shrieking at Helen for not telling her. Helen said could you just... NOT? Not what? asked Whitney

Be a bitch!

5 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Have we ever seen her where she's not shrieking, sulking, crying,  raging, being a bitch, or her face not twisted into a sneer? She's so unappealing.

Wasn't it weird when we saw her being so industrious  and so docile at the art gallery, with her ultra-demanding boss Andrea looking on? I think it was the day Furkat came in and maybe one other time when she came home to  wine that she dare not drink in front of Colin and no coffee. Maybe it was the same ep?

Her shoulders were slumped and more and more criticism and menial tasks  kept being heaped upon them, yet Whitney wasn't shrieking at Andrea! She just dutifully fixed what was wrong while wearing herself to a frazzle... but it was all in a day's work.

I call major BS!

[Guest]

Is Whitney so mentally incapacitated that she couldn't obtain her own birth certificate? All she had to do was go online and request one from the state of New York.  She could have had a new one overnight through a delivery service! Very telling was Colin's first reaction regarding the missing document, "I need my green card!" HA HA HA! Colin's marrying a green card -- not you, Whitney you ungrateful shrew. 

[AngelaHunter]

6 hours ago, T Summer said:

Wasn't it weird when we saw her being so industrious  and so docile at the art gallery, with her ultra-demanding boss Andrea looking on? I think it was the day Furkat came in and maybe one other time when she came home to  wine that she dare not drink in front of Colin and no coffee.

Oh, yes - her Cinderella for a  Day, picking lentils out of the fireplace only to have more thrown in. It's not surprising. The only people with whom she is belligerent, horrid, shrieky, rude and nasty are her parents, because she can get away with it.  Andrea would have tossed her out on her ass if she started that shit with her.

Who wants to bet she pitches a tantrum of some kind and makes a major scene at the wedding? Colin better be prepared to spend his life trying to placate her, or he would have to if this marriage lasts longer than a year.

"I don't want Dad at my wedding! Just tell him to keep paying for stuff."

She's kind of like a man who may be obsequious ass-kisser to his boss then go home and smack his wife around, if he knows he can do it without repercussions.

[LoveLeigh]

16 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

"I don't want Dad at my wedding! Just tell him to keep paying for stuff."

Seriously, what is Treem paid for this crap?? First Whitney is all happy with her Dad shopping for a wedding gown and going out to eat and then she does not want him at her wedding?

This is some serious sick twisted characterization that was never developed and makes no sense unless Whitney is bipolar or passive/aggressive. 

[AngelaHunter]

6 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

makes no sense unless Whitney is bipolar or passive/aggressive. 

Seriously, they've turned her into a four-year old who one day happily eats green beans and the next time he's served them, throws a tantrum and screams "I HATE THOSE! WaaaahWaaaah!!" Understandable in a little kid, but not in a grown woman.

But even on the shopping trip she did just drive off and leave Noah stranded there, knowing that no matter how much abuse she heaps on him, he'll take it and come back for more, like a beggar hoping for crumbs.

[meep.meep]

On 10/30/2019 at 12:14 AM, T Summer said:

Amen! Especially to that last part!

Helen knows Whitney's a bitch. Remember that s4 ep when she came home for Thanksgiving with Colin? Things weren't as she expected with Vik dying and all and she started shrieking at Helen for not telling her. Helen said could you just... NOT? Not what? asked Whitney

Be a bitch!

Wasn't it weird when we saw her being so industrious  and so docile at the art gallery, with her ultra-demanding boss Andrea looking on? I think it was the day Furkat came in and maybe one other time when she came home to  wine that she dare not drink in front of Colin and no coffee. Maybe it was the same ep?

Her shoulders were slumped and more and more criticism and menial tasks  kept being heaped upon them, yet Whitney wasn't shrieking at Andrea! She just dutifully fixed what was wrong while wearing herself to a frazzle... but it was all in a day's work.

The two episodes you mention were taken from two different points of view - the first one from Helen's POV where Whitney is a jerk, and the second one from Whitney's POV where she's working her fingers to the bone and handling everything perfectly.

That's the way the show has operated from the very first episode.  People see themselves differently than others see them.  What is really truth?  Usually there's a grain of it in each POV.

[T Summer]

1 hour ago, meep.meep said:

The two episodes you mention were taken from two different points of view - the first one from Helen's POV where Whitney is a jerk, and the second one from Whitney's POV where she's working her fingers to the bone and handling everything perfectly.

That's the way the show has operated from the very first episode.  People see themselves differently than others see them.  What is really truth?  Usually there's a grain of it in each POV.

Oh, I get it. I think someone had asked if she'd ever been shown differently.

I'm quite sure no one ever saw poor Whitney being so  overburdened and so exploited

...but Whitney!

[Razzberry]

I know they had to rehab Noah in this episode in order to become Helen's hero,  saving her twice in a double whammy of derring-do, but it was a stretch.  After Noah lectures Helen on her obsession with him (something he's had to contend with from many women, no doubt) he declares his intention to stay with his "stuff".  It's all he's got!

After that parting shot, we see how it was possible for him to become dead drunk the night before with only a 5 minute lead and no transportation when he then gulps down a big glass of straight liquor like it was water.  Smokey the Bear would be proud.  

[Milburn Stone]

I adored this episode (as I adore the whole show) but I have a stupid question. (Don't say there are no stupid questions. This is one.) All this time I've thought Whitney's life with Colin was in New York. That apartment looks like a NY apartment. Their existence has seemed like a very NY existence. I admit I have been confused when Noah and Helen have shown up there when we just saw them in LA, but I assumed they flew. Any time we've seen Whitney in LA it felt like she was just visiting. I guess I'm coming to terms with the fact that Whitney and Colin have actually been in LA this whole time, but has anyone else been suffering from coastal disorientation?

Edited November 1, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[T Summer]

42 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

I adored this episode (as I adore the whole show) but I have a stupid question. (Don't say there are no stupid questions. This is one.) All this time I've thought Whitney's life with Colin was in New York. That apartment looks like a NY apartment. Their existence has seemed like a very NY existence. I admit I have been confused when Noah and Helen have shown up there when we just saw them in LA, but I assumed they flew. Any time we've seen Whitney in LA it felt like she was just visiting. I guess I'm coming to terms with the fact that Whitney and Colin have actually been in LA this whole time, but has anyone else been suffering from coastal disorientation?

I know what you mean, Milburn Stone. The apartment scene and the talk about finances with broody useless Colin AND Whitney working in a gallery was giving me NYC., too. I had to remind myself that the whole family moved out to L.A.. I guess a lot of the  Helen and Vik's* and then Helen 's  home scenes have shown only Trevor and Stacy because the Whitney and Martin were away at school.

*RIP Vik

[T Summer]

3 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I know they had to rehab Noah in this episode in order to become Helen's hero,  saving her twice in a double whammy of derring-do, but it was a stretch.  After Noah lectures Helen on her obsession with him (something he's had to contend with from many women, no doubt) he declares his intention to stay with his "stuff".  It's all he's got!

After that parting shot, we see how it was possible for him to become dead drunk the night before with only a 5 minute lead and no transportation when he then gulps down a big glass of straight liquor like it was water.  Smokey the Bear would be proud.  

Razzberry, you're too kind to call it a stretch!

Once a woman in Helen's situation has said things to her ex like "Why did it have to he him[Vik]. Why wasn't it you? or "I hope you burn!" 

There is no coming back from that. 

Not to mention her response when Noah came to her client's house begging for a 7th chance. Ridiculous. The acting is great though!

To me this is just bad writing (storytelling). You cannot reunite exes where you have scorched earth like this and not have most of your audience rolling their eyes.

Its a shame, because it appeared  they were very possibly poised for a reunion where s4 left off.

[weaver]

6 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I adored this episode (as I adore the whole show) but I have a stupid question. (Don't say there are no stupid questions. This is one.) All this time I've thought Whitney's life with Colin was in New York. That apartment looks like a NY apartment. Their existence has seemed like a very NY existence. I admit I have been confused when Noah and Helen have shown up there when we just saw them in LA, but I assumed they flew. Any time we've seen Whitney in LA it felt like she was just visiting. I guess I'm coming to terms with the fact that Whitney and Colin have actually been in LA this whole time, but has anyone else been suffering from coastal disorientation?

They must have used an old stereotypical cold water flat NY set to depict Whitney's apartment.  I don't even think there are apartments like that in LA, and not many left in NY either.  I was positive she was in NY.   Maybe they borrowed Jackie Gleason's old apartment set from The Honeymooners.   

[Rockfish]

Regarding hats: in addition to one with The End on it, Noah also grabbed one with an entwined C A, which I’m sure represented Cole and Alison and their unbreakable luv. I think it’s an Angels hat, but in this context it’s much more.

The rattlesnake bite was too much, but since it reminded me of TV in the ‘70s, it was also kinda fun. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Rockfish

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, Rockfish said:

Noah also grabbed one with an entwined C A, which I’m sure represented Cole and Alison and their unbreakable luv.

I think the CA is the logo for Compton Academy, where Noah teaches, and likely a nod to California. With Helen often positioned to Noah's left as they walked away from the melee: CA and The End.

[endure]

On 10/28/2019 at 10:30 AM, esco1822 said:

I think Helen has historically taken a lot of crap from the people she has loved and when she has tremendous amounts of guilt. I think what held her back from correcting Whitney was that she wasn't entirely sure it was untrue. With Priya it was all guilt. Same with Vic when he was verbally abusive. I think this all goes back to Helen telling Noah that his impression upon meeting her was wrong. She's praised for her strength and kindness and really underneath there is a mountain of self-doubt and fear.  In reality she SHOULD  have always stood up to her mother, Noah, Priya, Vic and the ever hateful Whitney but what held her back was always the fear that they were right about her. 

I also think people like Helen always do a lot for people because it’s really important for them to be liked.  Essentially they do good things but for the wrong reasons.  

[endure]

On 10/29/2019 at 1:11 PM, TexasGal said:

Especially Whitney.  I mean, just give that brat her own documents and be done with it.  😂

Which reminds me, I wonder if Noah thought to put her birth certificate into his backpack before the great hike.  And whichever of the other kid's papers he had since he house was supposed to burn down.

Gee, I hope Noah thought to get his own birth certificate and passport, screw Whitney. 🤣

[AngelaHunter]

On 10/31/2019 at 10:41 PM, Milburn Stone said:

I adored this episode (as I adore the whole show) but I have a stupid question. (Don't say there are no stupid questions. This is one.) All this time I've thought Whitney's life with Colin was in New York.

I thought the very same thing! I took it for granted Whiney's  place was in NYC and was confused when Helen and the whole gang traipsed in and just thought there was something I'd missed. I was going to ask here, but then I got so mixed up about who was where - east or west -  I just decided to leave it alone.

On 10/31/2019 at 11:50 PM, T Summer said:

The acting is great though!

That is the one thing that can never be criticized on this show. The acting is uniformly great from just about everyone.

[nara]

I came across this article posted on Facebook 

https://nypost.com/2019/10/24/dad-died-in-burning-tesla-because-its-futuristic-doors-wouldnt-open-lawsuit-claims/

[T Summer]

Math problem:

When Noah is listening to the depositions w/ Lt. Jeffries the LT. asked Alison how old she was when she and Noah  met. She replied 31. Alison Died at 38. Joanie said on her 38th b'day she was the age her mother died.

Somehow   the Desent book tour 10 years ago?

The book tour was after Noah's 3 years in prison, IIRC. Even if it was b4 he went to prison, he was still working on the book during his time w/  Alison.

Someone helped  me out the other day and told me Alison died in 2021.

So do we have time to contact Sarah Treem and ask her not to take up our last year of a show we loved with stuff like Carl and Janelle, Sierra's mom, Elder  Ben, ill-natured  Joanie in her 30's and her indoor strawberry farm,  Sasha man's step daughter and   the like?

[Razzberry]

On 10/31/2019 at 8:50 PM, T Summer said:

Once a woman in Helen's situation has said things to her ex like "Why did it have to he him[Vik]. Why wasn't it you? or "I hope you burn!" 

There is no coming back from that. 

You'd think that wishing a horrific death on Noah for things like taking out the garbage or hurt feelings would give him pause, but this scorched-earth reaction doesn't appear to bother him in the least.   I think he enjoys it.

[Aqua]

On 10/27/2019 at 4:22 PM, LoveLeigh said:

Bugatti Chiron? 

Tesla.

[Aqua]

On 10/27/2019 at 10:41 PM, chick binewski said:

Nevermind that she's like 25 now and still thinks her birth certificate is her parents' responsibility to keep safe and have on hand at a moment's notice.

 "Rich Asshole". 

1) I know really! I loathe Whitney.

2) I saw that. Was that supposed to be Gun Guy on the Freeway?

[Aqua]

On 10/28/2019 at 7:17 AM, stormy weather said:

And with that ominous baseball cap that said "The End"! Come on! I was waiting for something to happen to her since they left the car. 

 

"The End" is the name of the bar in Montauk that Noah had been at the night Scotty was killed, for which he spent three years in prison despite the fact Helen was at the wheel. Which makes it more absurd that he would have kept the cap and actually taken it to California with him.

[Aqua]

On 10/29/2019 at 3:57 PM, MaggieG said:

Obviously this was a plot point to get Helen to Noah's house, but I thought it was odd that Noah and Helen split up the passports and birth certificates for the kids. The reason was so neither of them could flee the country with all 4 kids? First of all, why would anyone want to flee the country with the Solloway kids? Second of all, didn't Helen have custody after the divorce? I feel like the parent that has custody should hold onto that kind of stuff. Third of all, even if Helen or Noah would want to move to another country with the kids, they would need permission from a judge. I guess they could flee, but they were both born and raised as Americans and I don't see them fleeing the country. Plus, Noah was with Allison after the divorce and then went to prison. I'm pretty sure Helen had the passports when Noah was locked up.

My parents divorced when I was young and my mom had full custody with my dad having weekend visitation. My mom had all of our important documents. Maybe other children of divorce or divorced couples with kids could chime in. I just thought it was a weird thing to do, but then again, it's Noah and Helen😜

Having never been married and had children and divorced, I can't say, but Helen made it sound like this is standard procedure. She was actually kind of womansplaining to Noah that this is the rule to split up the passports and brith certificates as if everyone knows this. I wonder if Treem made it up?

[Aqua]

On 10/29/2019 at 4:11 PM, TexasGal said:

Especially Whitney.  I mean, just give that brat her own documents and be done with it.  😂

Which reminds me, I wonder if Noah thought to put her birth certificate into his backpack before the great hike.  And whichever of the other kid's papers he had since he house was supposed to burn down.

The only thing he put in his backpack was two water bottles which was pretty ridiculous after being all joe concerned about his precious photo albums and notebooks, etc. I would think he'd at least grab his laptop. But I guess the show runners wanted us to think that the combo of listening to his old self on the thumb drive and the news guy saying move or die or whatever , the only thing that mattered was his physical body and getting back to Helen. But he's smarter than that so I don't buy it.

[Aqua]

On 10/31/2019 at 10:41 PM, Milburn Stone said:

I adored this episode (as I adore the whole show) but I have a stupid question. (Don't say there are no stupid questions. This is one.) All this time I've thought Whitney's life with Colin was in New York. That apartment looks like a NY apartment. Their existence has seemed like a very NY existence. I admit I have been confused when Noah and Helen have shown up there when we just saw them in LA, but I assumed they flew. Any time we've seen Whitney in LA it felt like she was just visiting. I guess I'm coming to terms with the fact that Whitney and Colin have actually been in LA this whole time, but has anyone else been suffering from coastal disorientation?

Downtown LA.