Parasite (2019)

[scarynikki12]

LOOK AT THEM. THEY ARE DELIGHT.

On the red carpet for the Oscars:

 

[slowpoked]

Wow, congrats to everyone involved in this movie! What a dream! What a moment!

[Fukui San]

Context free spoilers for Parasite:

[ketchuplover]

Memories of Murder .......... Mother ....you're welcome

[MissAlmond]

Kudos to everyone who predicted Parasite would win Best Picture.  I never believed the Academy would do it!

[truthaboutluv]

40 minutes ago, MissAlmond said:

I never believed the Academy would do it!

It's hard to explain but I just felt like there was this energy in the last weeks, about the film, that just seemed to reach these insane heights. That's why I predicted they would win. Yes, people were talking about Roma last year but the truth is, while many respected Roma as an artistic achievement, there was a lot of, "come on, it was kind of boring. Oh come on, you know no one watched the whole thing, etc."

Not the case with Parasite. People in the industry seemed to have genuinely watched and loved the film. And the reaction to the cast and Bong in those last weeks - again, you just felt like there was this growing intense energy around it. So not at all surprised it won and won so big, with International Film, Original Screenplay, Director and Picture. 

[MissAlmond]

34 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Oh come on, you know no one watched the whole thing, etc."

I did!  LOL  I enjoyed Roma but you're right, I didn't expect it to win Best Picture. 

34 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Not the case with Parasite. People in the industry seemed to have genuinely watched and loved the film. And the reaction to the cast and Bong in those last weeks - again, you just felt like there was this growing intense energy around it. So not at all surprised it won and won so big, with International Film, Original Screenplay, Director and Picture. 

You were smart in going with the current energy surrounding the film.  I felt it, but couldn't shake how the Academy usually handled "foreign" now "international" films.  They seemed satisfied by giving it the "best" Oscar in that category. 

IMO the Academy broadening their membership was the game changer that helped Parasite win Best Picture. The old membership most likely would have stuck to the old formula.  We know how that goes. 😉 

Edited February 10, 2020 by MissAlmond

[slowpoked]

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Yes, people were talking about Roma last year but the truth is, while many respected Roma as an artistic achievement, there was a lot of, "come on, it was kind of boring. Oh come on, you know no one watched the whole thing, etc."

I think Roma vs Parasite perfectly encapsulates how respect vs. affection can be received differently. People respected that Cuaron made a great movie, but it just didn't connect the way that it did with Parasite. I frequently say the latter ss a friendlier, more engaging movie. I have seen people complain about the first five minutes of Roma with the housekeeper doing nothing but sweeping the floor. Parasite hooks you up right at the start when Kevin goes around the house to try to steal a wifi signal.

[slowpoked]

More news regarding the Parasite TV Adaptation:

Quote

Director Bong Joon Ho spoke with The Movie Report, where he revealed that the American remake of his film, Parasite will reveal more details into Min Hyuk (Park Seo Joon) and Yeon Kyo’s (Cho Yeo Jeong) relationship.

Quote

Min Hyuk, who introduced him to the job. There’s a peculiar nuance between Min Hyuk and Yeon Kyo. As if something happened between them. I couldn’t describe it all in a 2-hour film.

– Bong Joon Ho

 

https://www.koreaboo.com/stories/american-remake-parasite-min-hyuk-yeon-kyo-relationship/

So there's the relationship between the housekeeper and the old house owner, and now, the relationship between Mrs. Park and the former tutor. 

I think this adaptation will only work if Bong stays with the original actors of the movie, especially since the series is not an offshoot/sequel, but rather the other stories of the original movie . I don't think I would be as invested in this if Scarlett Johansson ends up being Mrs. Park.

[Ohwell]

I hate to say this, but I think Bong should have left well enough alone and not done a TV adaptation.  The movie was enough.

[slowpoked]

4 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I hate to say this, but I think Bong should have left well enough alone and not done a TV adaptation.  The movie was enough.

I kind of agree with you. I would check it out still because I'll be curious, but I'm afraid it would diminish the great movie. Sometimes, no matter how good and tempting some things are, you just have to let sleeping dogs lie.

Edited February 12, 2020 by slowpoked

[Browncoat]

5 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I hate to say this, but I think Bong should have left well enough alone and not done a TV adaptation.  The movie was enough.

I agree 100%.  Sometimes you have to know when to leave well enough alone.

[Spartan Girl]

Finally saw this and JESUS.

Definitely an intense movie. And one of the ones where despite everything I couldn't feel too much sympathy for the main characters. The Kims really were parasites. And yeah I get the dad snapped when he killed Mr. Park but he still didn't deserve to die. 

I agree that the movie was enough and doesn't need a TV version.

[kiddo82]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Finally saw this and JESUS.

Definitely an intense movie. And one of the ones where despite everything I couldn't feel too much sympathy for the main characters. The Kims really were parasites. And yeah I get the dad snapped when he killed Mr. Park but he still didn't deserve to die. 

I agree that the movie was enough and doesn't need a TV version.

Yeah.  I've been going over and over why the movie left me a little cold and I think it boils down to that the Parks never really do anything wrong.  I think the movie wants us to root for the Kims, and not that they deserve the situation that they are in, but they are kind of terrible.  This wouldn't be so bad if it was also balanced out with the Parks also being terrible but we really don't see any evidence of that.  Now, Bong Joon Ho could be saying a bunch of things about wealth and privilege and how no matter what people will be corrupted by it (5 minutes after their new "status" is threatened the Kim family up and murders the housekeeper to attempt to maintain it) but for all we know the Parks aren't corrupt.  Their biggest crime is that they are wealthy and oblivious, and while that's not a good look on anybody, that doesn't automatically mean they somewhat got what was coming to them. 

It's weird because it's still a good movie, and I don't begrudge it its wins, but I'm trying to wrap my head around why I simply can't fall 100% in love with it.  Maybe I need to see it again.

Edited February 13, 2020 by kiddo82

[ruby24]

I think the Parks ARE bad though. I mean, the father is an asshole with his constant complaining about the way the Kims just smell like "poor." He even convinces his wife, who's so oblivious to everything, and once he mentions it she suddenly has to roll down her window to avoid the made up "stench." 

And frankly, at the end when the violence happens he doesn't give a shit about the woman who works for him who was literally just stabbed in his yard, all he cares about is his son fainting. 

I had a feeling when I saw it that wealthy people would identify with the Parks and not be able to even notice what about them sucks, because they aren't painted as cartoon villains, but I think the message is that being rich MAKES you suck because you will always live in your own little bubble and not give two shits about anyone else, like the people whose flats flood over completely when it rains while you're out planning your day parties.

[Simon Boccanegra]

  

3 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

5 minutes after their new "status" is threatened the Kim family up and murders the housekeeper to attempt to maintain it

I'd be more against them if they had done that, but while there is a violent frenzy, it's more desperate and confused than murderous. The mother doesn't intentionally kill the housekeeper with that kick; she's just trying to prevent her from getting out of the basement. In a later scene, it's clear they think both members of the couple are still alive. The references in the Kim mother/daughter conversation at the party are in the plural.  

KI-JUNG: Shouldn’t we try to talk to them? Try to reach an agreement?

CHUNG-SOOK: I think so too. We all got too emotional yesterday.

KI-JUNG I’ll go down there and see how they’re doing.

That isn't to say I think your read is all wrong. The Kims do a lot of things that are not "good." They are not straightforward heroes. I don't think Bong Joon-Ho wants us to feel the Parks deserve everything they're getting. It's in part a satire or black comedy, but it has some texture and moral ambiguity as well.  

4 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I mean, the father is an asshole with his constant complaining about the way the Kims just smell like "poor." He even convinces his wife, who's so oblivious to everything, and once he mentions it she suddenly has to roll down her window to avoid the made up "stench." 

I do think the unpleasant smell is a real thing. The little boy comments on it too. Once they're made aware of it, the Kims consider using different detergents so they won't all have the same smell, but then rule out that plan ("It won’t work. It’s the basement smell. The smell won’t go away unless we leave this place").  

[kiddo82]

1 hour ago, Simon Boccanegra said:

  

I'd be more against them if they had done that, but while there is a violent frenzy, it's more desperate and confused than murderous. The mother doesn't intentionally kill the housekeeper with that kick; she's just trying to prevent her from getting out of the basement. In a later scene, it's clear they think both members of the couple are still alive. The references in the Kim mother/daughter conversation at the party are in the plural.  

KI-JUNG: Shouldn’t we try to talk to them? Try to reach an agreement?

CHUNG-SOOK: I think so too. We all got too emotional yesterday.

KI-JUNG I’ll go down there and see how they’re doing.

I was thinking mostly the daughter dumping the peaches on the housekeeper and then her being denied medical attention.  It was heat of the moment for sure, (although the daughter does have to leave the room to get the peaches and then re-enter to incapacitate the housekeeper so I'm not sure if that's interpreted by the law as a heat of the moment crime or not.  I'm guessing any good prosecutor could at least muddle that defense but all I really know about law I learned from the Closer and Law and Order) but the daughter knew first hand the severity of the housekeeper's allergies and then nothing was done immediately afterwards to try to remedy the situation.  The housekeeper probably would have died anyway in that situation without the head injury.  At the very least it's assault (with a deadly weapon?).  I don't know about Korea but I'm sure there's precedent in the US for such a thing.

 

2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I And frankly, at the end when the violence happens he doesn't give a shit about the woman who works for him who was literally just stabbed in his yard, all he cares about is his son fainting. 

The thing with the ending is that it's hard for me to blame Mr. Park for something when I myself don't know how I would react.  I don't have kids so what do I know?  But looking at it through Mr Park's eyes, he saw a crazy man stab someone and his son faint.  Objectively, is he prioritizing the wrong situation when he chooses his son over Mr. Kim's daughter?  Yes. But how many people beyond a shadow of a doubt could say they'd be thinking objectively in a situation like that?  Like I said, I don't even have kids but it's hard for me to definitively say what I'd do if it was my child that was involved.  And if it was a distant relative or acquaintance at the party instead of his son would he have still not given a shit about Mr. Kim's daughter?  Would he have still prioritized that person over someone who in his eyes was just the hired help?  Probably.  But we don't know for sure.

 

At the end of the day, both of the families fall on the spectrum of suck but what we see the Kims do is way worse than anything we see the Parks do.  We know what the Kims are capable of in order to achieve and maintain a new status but we don't know what Mr. Park did and does for his.  The message could be that it doesn't matter and we all suck whenever our status, such as it is, is threatened.  I don't disagree with that on principle but as far as this particular movie plays out that seems like a leap in logic for me.

Edited February 13, 2020 by kiddo82

[Spartan Girl]

4 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I had a feeling when I saw it that wealthy people would identify with the Parks and not be able to even notice what about them sucks, because they aren't painted as cartoon villains, but I think the message is that being rich MAKES you suck because you will always live in your own little bubble and not give two shits about anyone else, like the people whose flats flood over completely when it rains while you're out planning your day parties.

Oh no, don't get me wrong, I am not saying the Parks did not suck. They were obviously ignorant, selfish spoiled snobs. But none of that adds up to Mr. Park deserving to die. I mean anybody would be more concerned about getting their own son to safety, even if you just saw someone else getting stabbed. Would he have reacted any differently if he knew "Jessica" was Mr. Kim's daughter? I don't know. 

I do think the Kims felt remorse over their actions, especially because their daughter was murdered. Mr Kim definitely was remorseful after the fact, though not enough to turn himself in -- I'm not sure being in jail is worse than hiding in the basement for the rest of his life, at least in jail he'd get to see his family, wouldn't he?

The Kims could have easily taken pity on the housekeeper when she first begged them for help before she figured out the scam. But the mom had the nerve to act all indignant "I am nothing like you" and threaten to call the cops. Like their scam was any better than the housekeeper hiding her husband.

[slowpoked]

9 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

But looking at it through Mr Park's eyes, he saw a crazy man stab someone and his son faint.  Objectively, is he prioritizing the wrong situation when he chooses his son over Mr. Kim's daughter?  Yes. But how many people beyond a shadow of a doubt could say they'd be thinking objectively in a situation like that?  Like I said, I don't even have kids but it's hard for me to definitively say what I'd do if it was my child that was involved. 

I really don't blame Mr. Park during this sequence. His son already had a previous episode like that as referenced early by Mrs. Park. By all accounts, it's the exact same thing that happened - it didn't seem like just fainting - they think it's a full on seizure. And at that point, Mr. Park didn't know that Jessica is Mr. Kim's daughter, so is him screaming at Mr. Kim to get the car while the latter was tending to Jessica an asshole behavior? Sure, it is. But I don't think it's unreasonable and/or unbelievable for Mr. Park to have acted the way that he did during that situation.

I was really curious if the young son turned out fine in the end. I wish Bong had addressed that a bit.

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I'm not sure being in jail is worse than hiding in the basement for the rest of his life, at least in jail he'd get to see his family, wouldn't he?

Yes, I think being in that basement is worse than an actual prison, for the exact reason you mentioned. Aside from not seeing his family, he is devoid of all human contact for the rest of his life. I think that's a severe punishment in itself, even if technically he wasn't brought to justice. I have a Korean friend who didn't like the ending, she wanted to have Mr. Kim be brought to trial and end up in an actual prison. I wager that the situation he ended up in is way worse than government prison

 

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

The Kims could have easily taken pity on the housekeeper when she first begged them for help before she figured out the scam. But the mom had the nerve to act all indignant "I am nothing like you" and threaten to call the cops. Like their scam was any better than the housekeeper hiding her husband.

.I think this perfectly illustrates the scarcity mindset that the poor people have toward each other. That the way to get to the top is to fight other poor people for the crumbs that fall from the rich, and not have the actual system that makes them be in this situation actually upended and fixed. Bong addressed this in an interview he did. Instead of fighting the system and the rich, the poor would cannibalize their own instead. When they were all down in that basement, the son was trying to calmly negotiate with the old housekeeper saying "Ma'am, the jobs that we have here, it's so important to our family..." Well, what about the job that his mom stole from the old housekeeper? Or the job that his dad (with the help of his sister) stole from the other driver? 

 

10 hours ago, Simon Boccanegra said:

I do think the unpleasant smell is a real thing. The little boy comments on it too. Once they're made aware of it, the Kims consider using different detergents so they won't all have the same smell, but then rule out that plan ("It won’t work. It’s the basement smell. The smell won’t go away unless we leave this place").

Bong said that he specifically used the sense of smell because smell is the particular thing that doesn't care for "lines that should not be crossed", as Mr. Park was fond to preach. He said in Korea (and probably everywhere else in the world), the rich and poor don't interact - they have different spaces in airplanes, go to different restaurants, live in different neighborhoods, etc. But once they are in the same space, the smell would waft through that invisible line that divides them, and blurs the division, if only for a bit.

Edited February 13, 2020 by slowpoked

[DollEyes]

My verdict: WOW! Parasite not only deserves every Oscar it won, the whole cast should have been given special Oscars, ala " Best Ensemble" for the SAGs, which they also won and rightfully so. I've seen it three times and I found something new each time. The first time, it was the use of water as a class metaphor-the Park's water was clean and pleasant while the Kim's water was as dark and dirty as the basement they lived in. To the Parks, a rainstorm was an inconvenience;  to the Kim's, it was a catastrophe.

  Next, I noticed the architecture. The Park's home seemed spacious and bright; the Kims was cramped and filthy. However, as expected, the external beauty of the Park's home belies the dark secret that's literally underneath. As for the Kims, ITA that they should have compromised with the original housekeeper and her husband. Since both families had a common goal re the Parks, they should have protected each other, which would have made things much easier and less bloodier.

  Last, the ending. Mr. Park may have been a clueless snob, but he didn't deserve to die for it, especially not at Mr. Kim's hands, so IMO Kim's being trapped in the same house that he wanted for his family is karmic justice. Given the son's brain damage, his plan to rescue his father was just a pipe dream.

 Re a potential Parasite spin-off series, I think it depends. It could be an anthlogy series like Fargo, with different characters in the house at different years/decades, like, say, the 1970s or even identical houses in different locations. The Snowpiercer spin-off is coming to TNT this summer and if the trailer is any indication, then it could be as great as the movie. In Bong Joon Ho I trust.

Edited February 13, 2020 by DollEyes

[slowpoked]

2 hours ago, DollEyes said:

The Snowpiercer spin-off is coming to TNT this summer and if the trailer is any indication, then it could be as great as the movie.

Yes, it looks promising. And I like Jennifer Connelly. But the TV adaptation is completely independent of Bong - he didn't participate in any aspect at all.

17 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

At the end of the day, both of the families fall on the spectrum of suck but what we see the Kims do is way worse than anything we see the Parks do. 

I agree. Though I understand that Mr. Kim snapped, and maybe just like how Mr. Park was not entirely unreasonable to ignore Jessica in favor of his son, it's also not unreasonable for Mr. Kim to snap the way he did in that situation. 

2 hours ago, DollEyes said:

so IMO Kim's being trapped in the same house that he wanted for his family is karmic justice.

Yes it is karmic justice. But I think it speaks to Bong's mastery (and the actors too), that while I should hate the Kims for what they did to the Parks, I couldn't help but feel sad about the Kims' plight at the end of the movie. He probably deserved to spend the rest of his life in that basement alone and lonely, but at the same time, I also feel that they didn't get their fair shake, in life in general, being so miserably poor all their lives, not being able to make lives better for their kids, that they had to cheat their way to even start getting a shot at a decent meal in their home. It was a gut punch to realize that that poor kid will never be able to afford that house in his father's lifetime, and therefore, his father will eventually die in that basement, all by himself, and with his wife and son not even knowing when he died, and be able to mourn him.

Question for y'all: Do you prefer the ending to have stopped at that fantasy reunion? Or the actual ending? I was discussing with my husband and I feel like the movie could have ended at that fantasy reunion, and make the audience think whether it really happened or not. Kinda like the ending of Inception where we don't know if Leonardo was in real life or still in a dreamlike state.

Edited February 14, 2020 by slowpoked

[Spartan Girl]

The actual ending, definitely. However pity I felt for the Kims, giving them a fantasy happy ending would have been cheap and unearned, especially after all the shit they did.

I also want to point out that the son was about to attempt to murder the housekeeper and her husband with the rock before he got his brain bashed in.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Spartan Girl

[Dejana]

3 hours ago, DollEyes said:

As for the Kims, ITA that they should have compromised with the original housekeeper and her husband. Since both families had a common goal re the Parks, they should have protected each other, which would have made things much easier and less bloodier.

In the real world, the various Have Nots could band together for a common purpose and would be better off for it. Instead, they often fight among themselves to hold on to a meager place in life while the Haves blithely carry on, unaware/unconcerned about anyone else's problems. The movie really went up another notch for me when it introduced that element of class warfare on top of everything else.

 

[kiddo82]

The Kims and the housekeeper and her husband's crossroads of teaming up vs not teaming up is very prisoner's dilemma.  

[Spartan Girl]

Well, you can't really blame the housekeeper for not wanting to team up after figuring out that they scammed and screwed her out of her job! Not to mention the mother's callous rejection of her pleas for help before she caught the rest of the Kims and put two and two together.

[Simon Boccanegra]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

I also want to point out that the son was about to attempt to murder the housekeeper and her husband with the rock before he got his brain bashed in.

He is, yes, but I think the way the scene is shot and acted, it's clear enough that he isn't going to be able to go through with it. That's also the way it reads in BJH's script.  

[slowpoked]

14 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Not to mention the mother's callous rejection of her pleas for help before she caught the rest of the Kims and put two and two together.

I've been thinking about that part. What if the mother wasn't too condescending of the old housekeeper and just agreed to the arrangement the latter was proposing? Would the housekeeper still have reacted the same way when she eventually found out that they were a family of scammers? Would she have been more understanding of their plight as juxtaposed to her own and husband's situation?

 

15 hours ago, Dejana said:

In the real world, the various Have Nots could band together for a common purpose and would be better off for it. Instead, they often fight among themselves to hold on to a meager place in life while the Haves blithely carry on, unaware/unconcerned about anyone else's problems. The movie really went up another notch for me when it introduced that element of class warfare on top of everything else.

The scarcity mindset is a real thing, and another unfortunate product of the capitalist system the world is in. You would think the battle should be between the rich and the poor, but it's sad to see the poor cannibalize their own as if their fellow poor is their enemy.

Edited February 14, 2020 by slowpoked

[StatisticalOutlier]

I managed to see the black and white version.  Bong said it would highlight the actors' performances.  I might agree.

I came away from seeing the black and white version feeling a little more sympathetic to the Kims, especially the father, than I did the first time I saw it (in color).  I can't necessarily attribute it to the black and white, but I think the scene of them returning to their flooded apartment, and the next one where they were in the gymnasium/shelter, were very effective in black and white.  The image of the father's face while lying in the gym really got to me.

Not as effective was the scene where he puts hot sauce on the tissue, to make it look like the housekeeper is coughing up blood.  And there were other scenes that I'm sure would have been lit differently if the movie was shot in black and white.  And of course you completely lose the green yard at the Parks' house, which really is a loss.

I was surprised at the size of the audience when I saw it.  There had to be 25 people there, at 1:45 on a Friday afternoon.  I do wonder if all of them realized what they were seeing, since only certain screenings were in black and white, and you had to dig a little to figure out which ones.  When I bought my ticket, the clerk didn't say, "Just so you know, this is the black and white version." 

I wouldn't be surprised if people who knew about it only because of all the awards could see the black and white version and not realize it's not the original version.

 

 

[Ohwell]

Last night I watched a movie called Sea Fog which came out in 2013 which Bong Joon-ho produced and co-wrote.  It was based on a true story of illegal Chinese-Korean immigrants on a ship.  Although the plot was entirely different from Parasite, I saw similarities in how things can go in a different direction so quickly and disastrously.    

[slowpoked]

On 2/15/2020 at 4:31 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

Not as effective was the scene where he puts hot sauce on the tissue, to make it look like the housekeeper is coughing up blood. 

Ooohh, good catch! Yes, that scene will lose its effectiveness if you can't see the color red in the "blood". 

There was an article (in light of Parasite being the first non-English film to win BP) that went viral for the wrong reasons last week when it said that non-English films should be dubbed when shown in the US instead of subtitled. I think there are arguments to make either way, especially when considering disabilities of some moviegoers. But I personally want to watch a non-English movie subtitled instead of dubbed. I feel like you lose the original tone and inflection of the actors when you dub the movie. In this film alone, I could immediately think of two scenes that would be ruined if dubbed: Mrs. Park's "Is it ok with you?" and "I'm deadly serious." I'm sure in a great movie like this with great acting, dubbing this in English would make the movie less powerful than it really was.

[Cheezwiz]

4 hours ago, slowpoked said:

I personally want to watch a non-English movie subtitled instead of dubbed. I feel like you lose the original tone and inflection of the actors when you dub the movie.

Absolutely! I personally loathe dubbing. It should certainly be available for folks unable to read subtitles, but otherwise? Nah. But people who are demanding it because they're unfamiliar with foreign movies, are just being lazy and frankly, unadventurous. To me, they're the same as people who refuse to watch black and white movies, because they've only been exposed to colour their whole lives (yes, I have actually met people like this).

I  won't watch anything dubbed, because it's painfully obvious, the acting is usually sub-par, and it takes me right out of the film. I'm paraphrasing here, but  as Bong-Joon Ho himself so eloquently stated: if people could just find it within themselves to climb over that one inch barrier of subtitled text, they would open themselves up to a whole new world of movies.

[JenMcSnark]

On 2/13/2020 at 6:13 PM, Spartan Girl said:

The actual ending, definitely. However pity I felt for the Kims, giving them a fantasy happy ending would have been cheap and unearned, especially after all the shit they did.

I also want to point out that the son was about to attempt to murder the housekeeper and her husband with the rock before he got his brain bashed in.

I agree this is a possibility, but my daughter and I thought he may have actually been going to give the stone to the other family to help them, just as Min's family gifted it to the Kims. 

One reason we thought this is because when he went to get it, his father was curious why and he said it was "clinging" to him.  Perhaps he thought he was meant to gift it to them. 

[Laurie4H]

I watched this yesterday and really liked it.  I usually like disturbing movies which this was.  But best picture?  That’s debatable.  Too me it was unrealistic.  That just might be because I have trust issues and research most people and businesses online.  The first thing I thought of when Mr. Kim gave Mr. Park the Care business card was searching the business online first.  Also with so much social media it’s hard to get away with anything and pretend your someone your not.  Also there were no cameras that picked up on anything? I know the housekeeper said she cut the line to one but was that before she left or when she came back?  Maybe I missed what she said.  The Kims where hanging out on the lawn earlier before the housekeeper came to the door so I would think the security camera would have caught that (again not sure though the line was cut yet).  

The family coming home early from the camping trip was so obvious.  

Also the Morse code light.  The family obviously didn’t know it was that so you would think they would try to fix a lose wire or change the bulb.  And how did the son survive having his head bashed like that?

Edited February 17, 2020 by Laurie4H

[slowpoked]

3 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

The first thing I thought of when Mr. Kim gave Mr. Park the Care business card was searching the business online first.

That's a good point. And the movie showed earlier that the Parks are savvy when it comes to online stuff - they were worried if their old driver would accuse them online when they fired him.

3 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

Also there were no cameras that picked up on anything? I know the housekeeper said she cut the line to one but was that before she left or when she came back?  Maybe I missed what she said.  The Kims where hanging out on the lawn earlier before the housekeeper came to the door so I would think the security camera would have caught that (again not sure though the line was cut yet).  

The only camera shown in the movie was a camera trained towards the main entrance door and the garage door, so no, it wouldn't catch the Kims playing in the yard. The old housekeeper cut the camera wires before she buzzed in that night, telling Mrs. Kim to not worry about letting her in because she cut off the wires so that the Parks won't see that she came back.

[StatisticalOutlier]

18 hours ago, slowpoked said:

Ooohh, good catch! Yes, that scene will lose its effectiveness if you can't see the color red in the "blood". 

The packet said "hot sauce" on it, so a viewer could figure out that it's red and meant to look like blood, but I think it's a good example of how you can't/shouldn't just strip color out of a movie to turn it into black and white.  Bong obviously disagrees, but I think I know better.  😀

 

18 hours ago, slowpoked said:

There was an article (in light of Parasite being the first non-English film to win BP) that went viral for the wrong reasons last week when it said that non-English films should be dubbed when shown in the US instead of subtitled. I think there are arguments to make either way, especially when considering disabilities of some moviegoers.

Tough shit.  There is no argument to be made to deprive U.S. moviegoers of foreign movies in their original language.  If they want to give people headphones with dubbed dialogue, then have at it.  But ruining it for people who want to hear the original language isn't acceptable.

For the record, when theaters show Studio Ghibli movies in the U.S. lately, they generally have both subtitled and dubbed versions, usually alternating throughout the day.  Maybe they get this special treatment because they're animated, but even animated, I won't watch a dubbed one, even if it's American movie stars voicing the characters.

On most live-action Chinese movies that get a U.S. release, the subtitles are in both Chinese and English.  The Chinese works because Chinese dialects are different (e.g. Cantonese vs. Mandarin) but the written form of each is the same.  It seems to me if movies made in China can expect Chinese people to have to read subtitles, it's not too much to ask Americans to do it, too.

[Fukui San]

I kinda think they could do the Rumble Fish treatment and have black and white with specific objects in color. The hot sauce and the lush green lawn for two.

[angora]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

For the record, when theaters show Studio Ghibli movies in the U.S. lately, they generally have both subtitled and dubbed versions, usually alternating throughout the day.  Maybe they get this special treatment because they're animated, but even animated, I won't watch a dubbed one, even if it's American movie stars voicing the characters.

It's probably because some viewers for animated movies will be too young to be able to keep up with reading the subtitles (although I realize that some of them are too dark for kids.) I was listening to a podcast the other day where one host was giving the other shit for watching the dubbed version of a Studio Ghibli film, and he argued that it was the only way he could watch it with his daughter.

[Growsonwalls]

I think that for the super-rich and somewhat clueless Parks they wouldn't necessarily have cared that they were being scammed by the Kims. They just need "help" for their lifestyle and since the Kims were doing a fairly good job of providing that help I don't think the Parks would poke around too deeply. 

[Browncoat]

Plus the first Kim, the son (whose name I don't remember) tutored the daughter, came highly recommended by their previous tutor.  And once they trusted him, it was easy enough to take him at his word that these other people were trustworthy.  Personal recommendations go a long way.

[Growsonwalls]

33 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

Plus the first Kim, the son (whose name I don't remember) tutored the daughter, came highly recommended by their previous tutor.  And once they trusted him, it was easy enough to take him at his word that these other people were trustworthy.  Personal recommendations go a long way.

I think the tragedy of the film is that in some ways the Kims really had a good thing going. It doesn't seem like the Parks were abusive or exploitative. Mr. Park was kind of a dick but Mrs. Park and the Park kids seemed pretty nice. It also sounds as if the Parks paid well. If they maybe hadn't been so eager to get the whole family employed then maybe they could have had a truce with the old housekeeper. 

I think that's what makes the movie good -- the Parks aren't these stereotypical villains. With another hand of cards the Kims could have easily moved out of the basement into a comfortable apartment. 

[bijoux]

6 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think the tragedy of the film is that in some ways the Kims really had a good thing going. It doesn't seem like the Parks were abusive or exploitative. Mr. Park was kind of a dick but Mrs. Park and the Park kids seemed pretty nice. It also sounds as if the Parks paid well. If they maybe hadn't been so eager to get the whole family employed then maybe they could have had a truce with the old housekeeper. 

I think that's what makes the movie good -- the Parks aren't these stereotypical villains. With another hand of cards the Kims could have easily moved out of the basement into a comfortable apartment. 

And the Kims weren't either, when you look at it. They really did nothing to the Parks. I fully expected some mind tricks and taking over the house. But it truly seemed like they didn't plan for anything further than getting smashed in their employers' home while they were away. And I feel being stuck under the table while they awkwardly diddled with each other was more than punishment enough for that. 

Their real victims were the staff they got rid off. 

[benteen]

I saw Parasite over the weekend and I was not impressed with it.  I’m not sure why it won Best Picture and even the message it conveys seems confused.  It’s disappointing that this is from Bong Joon-ho, the director the much superior film Snowpiercer.

What was surprising is that the poor family we are supposed to sympathize with, the Kim family, are the least sympathetic characters in the movie.  Why is it that this family of intelligent and clever people can’t get a job other than folding pizza boxes?  The movie doesn’t even attempt to ask that.

This con artist family decides to screw over a bunch of unfortunate employees for a rich family and we’re supposed to sympathize with them?  It really annoyed the hell out of me that the second they got the house to themselves, they were beginning to turn the house into a shithole. 

As the end of the film, we learn the son is going to “work hard” despite his newfound infamy and buy the mansion.  Why didn’t he do that in the first place?  Him and the rest of his family have all these super skills.  Why are they in this position to begin with?

The funny part is, the rich family, the Park family, is more sympathetic than the poor family.  Are they dumb and naïve?  Yes.  Are they a little elitist and forgetful, sure?  But they don’t deserve what happens to them in this movie and certainly don’t deserve what the Kims do to them.  Their original household staff deserved it even less.

I will give the film credit though for making the poor family the unsympathetic ones.  That’s how you know this isn’t an American film.  In an American film, there would have been no doubt that the rich family were villains.  They’d be evil, super elitist, racist, 1% ,MAGA lovers.  It’s very easy to see how an American version of Parasite would have gone.

But subverting expectations doesn’t automatically make for a great film and Parasite is proof of that.  It’s certainly interesting and different in parts and the twist in the middle is a good one.  But it’s nothing special as a movie.  It’s too long and for a “dark comedy” doesn’t have much humor.  Also, is this film supposed to take place in the future or be a post-apocalyptic world?

I’ve seen 6 of the movies nominated for Best Picture.  1917, The Irishman, Marriage Story and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood are ALL better films than Parasite.  Parasite is better than Joker but that’s not saying much.  Hollywood likes a message movie but what exactly is the message of this film?  That the poor can suck just as much as the rich?  That certainly isn’t a Hollywood message that they usually reward.

Parasite is another Best Picture Award winner that will quickly become forgotten like so many other previous winners.

Edited February 18, 2020 by benteen

[slowpoked]

13 hours ago, bijoux said:

Their real victims were the staff they got rid off. 

I agree. Especially the old housekeeper. She's not exactly clean and pure, but what they did to her, playing off her serious allergy to peaches in order to scam the Parks and spreading the rumor that she has TB, I don't think she deserved that.

Mr. Kim did show a little guilt at the house towards the driver he replaced, but was quickly waved off by her daughter saying, you should be thinking about our condition instead. Another case of the class warfare of poor vs. poor.

20 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think the tragedy of the film is that in some ways the Kims really had a good thing going. It doesn't seem like the Parks were abusive or exploitative. Mr. Park was kind of a dick but Mrs. Park and the Park kids seemed pretty nice. It also sounds as if the Parks paid well. If they maybe hadn't been so eager to get the whole family employed then maybe they could have had a truce with the old housekeeper. 

That's the thing that got me with the Kims. IMO, they got too greedy too fast. I mean, with the good paying jobs that the son, daughter (especially posing as a therapist and not just a tutor) and dad, did they really have to get the mother into the con job immediately? Did it really have to be their entire family working for the Parks? It may be a case of you can never have enough of a good thing.

And when the mother finally gets into the scam, you just know that things will eventually fall apart for them. For me, the surprise of the movie was how. A lesser, and more predictable movie would have had the Parks catch the Kims when they partied in their house. But Bong not only did not take it there, he opened an entirely new world to explore.

Edited February 18, 2020 by slowpoked

[Growsonwalls]

16 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

That's the thing that got me with the Kims. IMO, they got too greedy too fast. I mean, with the good paying jobs that the son, daughter (especially posing as a therapist and not just a tutor) and dad, did they really have to get the mother into the con job immediately? Did it really have to be their entire family working for the Parks? It may be a case of you can never have enough of a good thing.

And when the mother finally gets into the scam, you just know that things will eventually fall apart for them. For me, the surprise of the movie was how.

I think the thing with the Parks is that unlike other uber-rich people paying for "help" they were not exploitative or abusive. They were on the level with the money and paid well. So the Kims felt like they won the lottery. 

I kind of felt like Mr. Park making a comment about the smell amidst all that melee was a plot twist that didn't feel organic. Yes Mr. Park like a lot of rich people might have been clueless and snobby in private. But the fact that there's dead bodies piling up left and right and he makes a comment about smell seems ... well, it seems like a plot twist for the sake of a plot twist. 

[Fukui San]

3 hours ago, benteen said:

What was surprising is that the poor family we are supposed to sympathize with, the Kim family, are the least sympathetic characters in the movie.  Why is it that this family of intelligent and clever people can’t get a job other than folding pizza boxes?  The movie doesn’t even attempt to ask that.

Capitalism and inequality.

The Kims have gone through a series of failed ventures and subsistence level jobs. They've mentioned a bakery and a fried chicken place. I've learned that it's a Korean specific reference in that people try to get in on fad businesses which inevitably crash and are left in debt with a harsh job market and lack of safety net. The father mentioned doing a driving gig between those failed ventures, and the guy under the basement also mentioned a failed bakery. The lower classes have to make wild, desperate swings at success. The upper classes have connections and tutors.

This is not post-apocalyptic. It's current capitalism that is what you are seeing from the point of view of those on the wrong end of it. It's touched upon again in the shelter they wind up after the flood. The father says "Do you think any of the people here planned to be sleeping in a gym?"

Quote

As the end of the film, we learn the son is going to “work hard” despite his newfound infamy and buy the mansion. 

That's the son's dream, to be certain. I don't think the film thinks he'll ever be able to achieve it. Because of all the barriers we've seen that prevents someone like the Kims getting to be on par with people like the Parks. The stench of the poor. The tragedy is that he's going to work all his life trying to get his dad out and probably never get close to doing so. And dullards like the Parks' kids will effortlessly be boosted up and think they earned every bit of it.

[benteen]

Why do the Kims deserve what the Parks have?  From what we see of the Kims, they are bad people who don't deserve good breaks.  It seems the only crime the Parks committed was being rich.  Maybe Mr. Park cheated his way to the top.  If he did, we never saw it and him being rich doesn't mean he deserves what he and his family got in this movie.

The Kims are supposed to be so smart yet they are living in poverty?  Why is that?  Again, the movie never shows us.  We're apparently supposed to sympathise with them because they're poor.  But their conduct in this movie doesn't lend itself to sympathy.  

Edited February 18, 2020 by benteen

[slowpoked]

4 minutes ago, benteen said:

It seems the only crime the Parks committed was being rich.

Has anyone ever really gotten rich just by doing it on their own?

[benteen]

22 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

Has anyone ever really gotten rich just by doing it on their own?

So is that a crime worthy of death?

[PepSinger]

35 minutes ago, benteen said:

So is that a crime worthy of death?

Who said it was???

[PepSinger]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

The Kims are supposed to be so smart yet they are living in poverty?  Why is that?  Again, the movie never shows us

I think Joon-Ho wants to give the audience a little credit. To anyone who understands capitalism and class warfare, it’s readily apparent as to why they are living in poverty. Opportunity. Once the Kims infiltrated the Park family, they could’ve eventually been middle class as well due to nothing other than opportunity. Joon-Ho doesn’t need to explain class warfare or capitalism to the audience. He’s assuming his audience is more intelligent than that. Also, for what it’s worth, it seems that there is dialogue in the film to understand the family’s situation. I prefer it when directors don’t hold the audience’s hand.

Edited February 18, 2020 by PepSinger