S10.E01: Lines We Cross

[heisenberg]

7 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Another character is starting to lose their hearing, that won't end well.

Well, they just have to put them with team Negan and everything will be OK.

[OoohMaggie]

I get that the 'military' tactics were designed to defeat the Walker / Whisperer threat, but the tactics sucked, the shield wall I get, although tactically the worst possible choice to face a herd, we had Michonne passing through the wall to take on three Walkers/Whisperers? on her own, despite the fact that she later lambasted Aaron for taking on three Walkers/Whisperers? on his own, stating that  "if it was them ,you could have died". Once again, after years of experience we see Aaron struggling, arm in arm with a Walker, honestly, haven't these people learned the most basic of survival techniques by now?

[CrazyDog]

I enjoyed this episode, all in all. I like the episodes where we do get to see everyone actually living day-to-day and what that looks like. The training scene was pretty cool as well. The communities coming together and working to train actually made some sense. Distance issues aside.

I also thought for a second that the walker Carol killed had to be a Whisperer, but...I guess not? Did she just know it was all full of fresh, fire-extinguishing blood?

And regarding Carol, I've always liked her. I don't think she cared at all about being Queen or whatever, so I don't get that sense that losing that "status" is why she broke up with Ezekiel. Grief can break up relationships just fine on their own. And he didn't seem surprised by it either. 

Being out on a boat seems like a nice break away from walkers. Barring a crew member's surprise death by natural causes of course.

Daryl and Carol's friendship is always fun to watch, and color me surprised TPTB may go there with Daryl and Connie - they are a great pairing. Plus Dog! Please let all 3 of them make it through the season.

I also hate the animal deaths on this show - also the horses, etc that were abandoned to freeze to death at the sanctuary last season in the last episode. I had to tell myself that obviously they went back for them...RIGHT?

Totally confused by the new creepy doctor. Have we met him before? 

Rosita's clothing lately is weird. 

[Tallulah7606]

5 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

I hope Rick stays gone. Civilization is progressing far more rapidly and stably without him.

No!! Couldn’t disagree more! I love Rick, Andrew Lincoln was the whole reason I started even watching the walking dead way back when. I miss Rick, it’s a totally different show without him-and I don’t like how Michonne has inserted herself in his boots as a pseudo leader. 
on a different subject, is nobody going to mention Dan Foglers dramatic weight loss? At first I thought ‘wow! Good for him’ then I realised with his weight loss he also seems to have lost his personality and his funny bone. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I hope Rick stays gone. Civilization is progressing far more rapidly and stably without him.

I'll probably check out the TV movie following Rick's story assuming it ever gets made, but the actual show is nothing without him IMO. It feels like a spin-off of the original story rather than a continuation. I only halfheartedly care about Daryl, Carol and Michonne because what they're involved in now is so uninteresting, baffling or just plain dumb. The show is never going to get me to care about Luke, Magna, Connie, etc. Everyone I ever cared about is gone and the whole Whisperers thing is just stupid as hell. 

That said I'm not sure the show would be much better if Rick were still around. The story feels stale and sedentary. It was far more compelling watching a smaller group of survivors move from one location to another just trying to find a place to stay alive. The establishment of the communities and the bloated cast changed the dynamic in a fundamental way.

[AngelaHunter]

30 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The show is never going to get me to care about Luke, Magna, Connie, etc. Everyone I ever cared about is gone and the whole Whisperers thing is just stupid as hell. 

That said I'm not sure the show would be much better if Rick were still around. The story feels stale and sedentary. It was far more compelling watching a smaller group of survivors move from one location to another just trying to find a place to stay alive. The establishment of the communities and the bloated cast changed the dynamic in a fundamental way.

x 2. I really don't know the names of most of this new and semi-new cast of thousands, and I don't care about a single one of them.

[Quilty]

Carol waving from the boat was very Forest Gumpy.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

6 hours ago, CrazyDog said:

Rosita's clothing lately is weird. 

But her eyebrows are on point! 😆

I forgot what she wore this episode (some black ensemble?), but it's one step up from the booty shorts from a few seasons ago, right? 

[walnutqueen]

9 minutes ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

But her eyebrows are on point! 😆

I forgot what she wore this episode (some black ensemble?), but it's one step up from the booty shorts from a few seasons ago, right? 

Now she has a booby bra-thingy.  Step up? Perhaps, if only directionally.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Speaking of clothing, I love how everyone (well, minus Daryl), still look better put together than I feel on most days. Like Carol's been gone for however long, and she steps off the boat with spotless pants that she looks like she just picked up off the rack at REI.

[spiderpig]

Should I rewatch this ep while fully awake?  I didn't recognize most of the characters when I was knocked out from boredom

[CletusMusashi]

9 hours ago, heisenberg said:

Well, they just have to put them with team Negan and everything will be OK.

Oh my god yes. Please, when Negan inevitably pulls the "let me out and I can help you" card successfully, and then betrays them all, and then is making a speech about how making himself Emperor of the Atomic Shitting Spacepants Zombies that Shit Atomic Shit Into Their Atomic Shitting Spacepants was all for the greater good, and none of the people who could easily shoot him are somehow able to stop waiting for the end of this completely asinine monologue, the DefSis2 will pop out of the shadows, beat him to death with two by four's, and then look around at everybody's shocked expressions, like "what?"

[UNOSEZ]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

People who are away at sea usually miss the people that they are coming back to in a major way.   Carol seemed to be only interested in Pig Pen (Daryl).

That's what I'm saying.. Her husband loses another son ...  His entire community.. A large part of his identity... Which had allowed him to create a relatively safe space for himself and many other ppl ( being King Ezekiel)  and ahead just ditches him to deal with that all on his own so she can go be a pirate or fisherman  and when she finally pops back up.. She's got no time for him and wants to run away again... Smh... At least its in character 

[MaggieG]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

They killed off the wrong characters last season.   I can deal with Rick being gone, but it is Jesus that I miss the most.   I know the actor wanted to leave, but I would imagine he would have stayed if Jesus didn't spend so much time off screen.

I miss Jesus too. If you haven't already, you should check out Tom Payne's new show, Prodigal Son. Pretty good so far.

I was really confused about the interaction between Saddiq and the new Dr.

[UNOSEZ]

38 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

After Carol has time to grieve, that is when I would expect her to forgive Daryl.  The writers have completely skipped over that set of emotions.

If anything, Carol should be closer to Ezekiel, not distancing herself from him.

Wow.. Hadn't even thought about that... Totally agree.. I guess their need to have Daryl and Carol be the bestest of friends.. Made them overlook it.. Or their rush to kill Ezekiel and Carol... Which while it never made much sense to me why the King wanted her.. It was fun to see him try and try and try to get her to be a personable person... Maybe the larger fandom didn't approve or somn... I dunno.. I'm good with Free King Ezekiel.. As whatever he's gonna have with Michonne won't last too long either

[amazinglybored]

Not a good episode for me. Too much negan, too much of the children, I forgot the newer people's names between seasons and I didn't need to see everyone's day before the satellite came down.

On 10/7/2019 at 8:42 AM, FishyJoe said:

What happed to the bullet factory? It seems like as time goes on, the more backwards their society becomes. It's like reverse evolution. Are they going to wind up living in caves and using stone knives?

God forbid the bullet factory ever be explained. The question is if they'll suddenly get another one once the whisperers are gone because guns would make easy work of them. 

[heisenberg]

6 hours ago, MaggieG said:

I was really confused about the interaction between Saddiq and the new Dr.

Wait, what?  The guy is a new doctor?  I don't even remember seeing him before!

[AngelaHunter]

10 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

but he didn't chew up nearly as much scenery as he has in the past.

That's because he only got a minute or two, yet still managed to talk about "shitting pants" like some silly highschool boy.

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I was thinking that Siddiq might have been working with the Whisperers, but since he is having PTSD flashbacks, I guess I was wrong and he is one of the good guys. 

I don't know about that. I mean, every single one of our gang (what's left of them) have to be suffering extreme PTSD, yet we never saw evidence of that. While watching I thought maybe Sidiq is feeling not only PTSD but guilt for being in some way complicit in the deaths, even if only to save his own life. Of course, I could be dead wrong.

33 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

Wait, what?  The guy is a new doctor?  I don't even remember seeing him before!

I have no memory of ever seeing him and have no idea where he came from, but he struck me as creepy in the extreme.

[raven]

Do not post spoilers in the episode topics, even with tags.  Your post will be removed.

[TattleTeeny]

Eh, I liked it. I always like it even when I don't love it. And I like Negan. And Carol. But I despise Alpha, and not even because she's evil, but because she is the most boring villain in the history of this show. Blah to Alpha!

[AngelaHunter]

41 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

But I despise Alpha, and not even because she's evil, but because she is the most boring villain in the history of this show.

Funny, but that's one of the primary reasons I despise Negan. But yeah, I despise Alpha too. So what's the black stuff around her mouth and eyes? Why does she always have it? Does she carefully apply it every morning when she shaves her bean to baby-bottom smoothness? Not only is she boring but unlike Negan, she's kind of distasteful to look at and her voice makes my one good ear bleed.

[UNOSEZ]

I gotta say... I kinda like Negan too.. I've never really been that bothered by him... I appreciate how horrible he is.. Could be JDM... Hamming it up.. Could be a burgeoning contrarian streak I also loved Dawson on Chicago Fire.. And NTA on Arrow.. Some characters just work for me.. Negan.. With all his extra is one of them

[amazinglybored]

4 hours ago, heisenberg said:

Wait, what?  The guy is a new doctor?  I don't even remember seeing him before!

He has to be new... probably? He thinks CDB and co treat doctors like gods and we know they get anyone with medical training killed way too often for that. He’s definitely a doctor or “doctor” going by his one sleazy scene. No one should be surprised if he’s evil or dead before the season is half over.

[AngelaHunter]

5 minutes ago, amazinglybored said:

. No one should be surprised if he’s evil or dead before the season is half over.

If he's evil and not merely creepy we'll soon know it. Villains on this show have to broadcast their mustache-twirling, utter evilness early and often, just in case we can't pick up on clues and figure it out for ourselves.

[DrNowsWeightScale]

Hi all. I rarely post to the TWD thread, I mainly post to the 'Fear the Walking Dead' threads.

I have watched TWD since it first aired, very first show. I watched this season 10 opener (or wait, are we on 11 now??).

It's not that it was bad - it was OK - and though I will keep watching TWD (and all the spin offs, in all likelihood),

maybe it's just because the (original) show has been on for ten years now, but I feel like it's gotten a little boring.

It's odd, too, because the last season was a definite step up in quality, and the other night's opener was okay as well. 

I don't like seeing animals attacked or killed in real life, and not even on TV for fictional purposes, so I wish we didn't have to see an injured deer get eaten up by zombies.

But if the shows are going to include CG animals, I wish they would step up the quality, because the CG is oh so very obviously CG.

I didn't care for the scene where Eugene was trying to - I assume - sneak a peek at Rosita's breast as she was feeding a baby. That was icky. It was sexualizing something that really shouldn't have been sexualized.

I'm also not terribly interested in the domestic lives or love lives of Rosita, Gabriel (or whatever preacher man's name is), Siddiq, and Eugene. I hope moving forward the show doesn't fixate on that storyline.

I'm feeling a little conflicted about Carol. I've liked her a long time as a character, and I cannot explain why, but in this season opener of her chatting with Daryl, she grated on my nerves. 

I guess the aspect of the show I'm most interested in is seeing the show's regulars finally get into a war with the bald Alpha lady.

[DrNowsWeightScale]

On 10/7/2019 at 6:15 PM, iMonrey said:

I'll probably check out the TV movie following Rick's story assuming it ever gets made, but the actual show is nothing without him IMO.

I read on news sites months ago the Rick movies will be released in movie theaters, not on TV.

If that is so, I don't know if I can be bothered to drive to a movie theater to watch a Walking Dead related thing. I have watched and been a big fan of the show since season 1, but I'm getting TWD fatigue lately... it's fine to watch on TV, but I don't know about making a special trip to a theater for it.

I MAY go see the very first Rick movie if it's at a theater, but if the quality of it is middling to terrible, I would not go to see any additional Rick / TWD movies.

[DrNowsWeightScale]

11 hours ago, MaggieG said:

I was really confused about the interaction between Saddiq and the new Dr.

I was confused about that scene as well.

I couldn't figure out (and still don't know) if the new doctor is a LGBT guy flirting with Saddiq, or was he just kidding around, or, if Saddiq has PTSD and so was imagining a lot of that weird, flirty behavior and commentary from the doctor??

I don't think the show made that abundantly clear. To be fair, I was at times during this episode doing things like folding laundry, so I was not always 100% paying attention closely to every scene.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

But if the shows are going to include CG animals, I wish they would step up the quality, because the CG is oh so very obviously CG.

Ah, yes. I do so agree with you. 😄 Blatantly and obviously. Scroll up nearly to the top to see how much I agree.

52 minutes ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

) if the new doctor is a LGBT guy flirting with Saddiq, or was he just kidding around,

I"ve never heard men kid around with each other that way, "The way you're looking at my lips I thought you wanted to get a room." But TPTB think they do and then Negan says something along those lines, about lips, to FPP. *shrug*

1 hour ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

I MAY go see the very first Rick movie if it's at a theater,

Let us know what it's like because, sorry, none of us will be going with you.:D

[amazinglybored]

1 hour ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

maybe it's just because the (original) show has been on for ten years now, but I feel like it's gotten a little boring.

It's odd, too, because the last season was a definite step up in quality, and the other night's opener was okay as well. 

It's the characters. Last season was a step up in quality as far as writing goes, imo, but they're thin on good characters you'll care about. They've struggled to do a good job with new characters, killed a tonne of older ones off and have lost interest in the remaining 3 at times. In this episode someone was trying to warn Kel and I was trying to remember who that was. I completely missed out on what they were trying to hint at and then didn't care when I was told.

And, possibly controversial personal opinion, Shane was the best villain and he died at the end of season 2. Then I guess it's the governor who died in the middle of season 4. Terminus? Season 5. The show has had two crap villains in negan and Alpha taking up a lot of time for years now. A show's villains shouldn't peak that early and Shane wasn't in that many episodes and wasn't the villain for all of them.

[valandsend]

14 hours ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

I was confused about that scene as well.

I couldn't figure out (and still don't know) if the new doctor is a LGBT guy flirting with Saddiq, or was he just kidding around, or, if Saddiq has PTSD and so was imagining a lot of that weird, flirty behavior and commentary from the doctor??

I don't think the show made that abundantly clear. To be fair, I was at times during this episode doing things like folding laundry, so I was not always 100% paying attention closely to every scene.

I think the new doctor is just the kind of overbearing jerk who likes to joke about same-sex attraction at every opportunity. My bigger question was, where did the new doctor come from? It appears to have been several months between the snowstorm of the previous season finale and this episode's warm weather on the beach, but the new guy seems unscathed by any hardships faced by the rest of the characters.

[valandsend]

On 10/7/2019 at 2:13 PM, iMonrey said:

Also, what's up with the title cards for every segment of the episode? Is that going to be a regular thing now? It smacks of self-importance.

I hope that was merely a technique used specifically for this episode, in which scenes were playing out concurrently just before the satellite appeared in the sky.

I found the whole thing with the satellite hard to believe. Of all places on the planet, it lands near this particular beach? And then there's anything at all to salvage, let alone functioning electronics, when the satellite should have burned up on entry?

[valandsend]

On 10/7/2019 at 8:14 AM, SamBeckett said:

My question is I thought is was a good distance from Alexandria. Yet, Eugene was in Alexandria talking baby nonsense early in the episode, but then he’s there for the fire (and the fallen satellite) which was at Oceanside. Did he develop a transporter between seasons? I know he’s smart and all.

Right. When Tara (and that guy who disappeared soon after) first found Oceanside, they'd been out exploring for weeks. Maybe the satellite landed someplace in between the two communities.

Although, we should probably give up trying to make sense of the geography. There are no mountains or rocky gorges anywhere near the beaches of Virginia (not that this episode could have been shot on a mid-Atlantic beach anyway, given that there were palm trees growing on it).

[UNOSEZ]

8 minutes ago, valandsend said:

Right. When Tara (and that guy who disappeared soon after) first found Oceanside, they'd been out exploring for weeks. Maybe the satellite landed someplace in between the two communities.

Although, we should probably give up trying to make sense of the geography. There are no mountains or rocky gorges anywhere near the beaches of Virginia (not that this episode could have been shot on a mid-Atlantic beach anyway, given that there were palm trees growing on it).

I dunno of its connected.. But Daryl while riding with his bosom buddy carol mumbled something to the effect of the communities had cleared a new path that kept them away from the river.. Ostensibly I guess travel times between communities has subsided... Plus it was daytime I think when the sat first started to fall and nightime when the others showed up.. So a few hours pass some horses or cars/atvs... A new path...plus TV magic... And other ppl to the rescue 

[Iguessnot]

21 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

That's because he only got a minute or two, yet still managed to talk about "shitting pants" like some silly highschool boy.

I don't know about that. I mean, every single one of our gang (what's left of them) have to be suffering extreme PTSD, yet we never saw evidence of that. While watching I thought maybe Sidiq is feeling not only PTSD but guilt for being in some way complicit in the deaths, even if only to save his own life. Of course, I could be dead wrong.

I have no memory of ever seeing him and have no idea where he came from, but he struck me as creepy in the extreme.

I never suspected Siddiq of anything, but these flashbacks are strange. One shot showed Alpha baring a bloody machete and turning slowing to look at Siddiq. The introduction and dialogue of this other "doctor" was so strange, I was wondering if Siddiq is under hypnosis.

[heisenberg]

5 hours ago, valandsend said:

Of all places on the planet, it lands near this particular beach?

There is a cemetery in the south atlantic ocean if I remember correctly where all countries sends their space objects when they are near the end or too close to earth.   It is people who decides to send them there.  So if no one is in control of their space objects because they all turned zombies it would be normal that those objects falls everywhere.

Edited October 9, 2019 by heisenberg

[heisenberg]

5 hours ago, valandsend said:

And then there's anything at all to salvage, let alone functioning electronics, when the satellite should have burned up on entry?

Yes it should,  unless it had the ability to correct it trajectory and a parachute to slow it down after,  but the paint is still on and without nearly a scratch to it.  There was no parachute, so it is supposed to be in thousands of pieces.

Edited October 9, 2019 by heisenberg

[iMonrey]

Quote

I read on news sites months ago the Rick movies will be released in movie theaters, not on TV.

Good Lord, they've got to be kidding themselves if they think people are going to pay to see those in the theater. Just look at how the ratings for the TV show have dwindled over the last few years. 

I'll catch 'em when they show up on cable.

[heisenberg]

20 hours ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

But if the shows are going to include CG animals, I wish they would step up the quality, because the CG is oh so very obviously CG.

For me the worst was the snow storm last season,  nothing can beat that.

[Haleth]

On 10/7/2019 at 1:47 PM, AngelaHunter said:

There were also the piglets, the horse Daryl approached in the field, the feral dogs our gang ate(understandable), the goat of the Cheesemaker, and the dogs when Negan threw the walker in at them at the Sanctuary (ridiculous).

And don’t forget Buttons. (Or is that who you meant re Daryl?)

Carol using the walker blood to put out the fire was the cheesiest thing I’ve seen lately. Second was Daryl knocking over the burning tree with the hatchet. I still like Carol and Daryl and Michonne and a handful of older characters, but I don’t think any of them can carry the show as leads. I don’t really care about the newer folks. 

It occurred to me that I never watched last season’s finale. Had lost interest by then. 

[AngelaHunter]

21 hours ago, amazinglybored said:

And, possibly controversial personal opinion, Shane was the best villain and he died at the end of season 2

I think that's the general opinion so I feel I'm the only one who didn't see Shane as a villain at all. He was a hothead who went off the rails when Lori cut him dead after the Return of Ricky. But Shane was the only one who, after the outbreak, went to the hospital to try and save Rick and when he saw he couldn't, at least did what he could to protect him if he recovered or not, and barely escaped with his life. If he were one of the Super"I'll tie you to the railroad tracks" Evils of this show, he would have gleefully suffocated Rick or left the door open for him to be torn apart just to make sure he died, and then tripped off to take up with Lori. Or maybe he was meant to be a villain, and the show decided that "ambiguity=bad!" so decided to make villains so evil they have become unrecognizable as human beings. They're evil just for the sake of being evil. They delight in being evil. They have no other facets or goals. No remorse. No empathy. No nothing. Just Evil, through and though.

8 hours ago, valandsend said:

When Tara (and that guy who disappeared soon after) first found Oceanside

This is such a perfect example of why we don't care what happens to anyone anymore. We (or maybe I should say "I") don't even know their names. "That guy", or the "music guy" or the "kids", "that lady", "the kid who got killed on the road", etc. Well, okay - we DID know Neil's name, whoever the hell he was, so that's something I guess.

[AngelaHunter]

On 10/8/2019 at 2:11 PM, icemiser69 said:

Daryl couldn't keep that kid in line, Daryl was the one that was supposed to be watching over him.   She has to have some anger directed towards Daryl, but we just haven't seen it.  Daryl isn't responsible for that kid getting killed.  The Whisperers are responsible for his death, but it is a normal human reaction to at least blame Daryl for his failure in not protecting the kid, at least for the short term. 

Somehow I can't see her blaming Daryl for that. She knows she couldn't protect her own child (Sophia, I mean, not that irritating twerp Henry) and remembers how Daryl doggedly searched for her. AND Henry wasn't some little 12-year-old girl who had just been thrust into this new world. Henry was nearly a grown man, who grew up post-ZA. Daryl shouldn't have had to babysit him. Short of tying the little bastard up, there wasn't much he could do.

[amazinglybored]

18 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I think that's the general opinion so I feel I'm the only one who didn't see Shane as a villain at all. He was a hothead who went off the rails when Lori cut him dead after the Return of Ricky. But Shane was the only one who, after the outbreak, went to the hospital to try and save Rick and when he saw he couldn't, at least did what he could to protect him if he recovered or not, and barely escaped with his life. If he were one of the Super"I'll tie you to the railroad tracks" Evils of this show, he would have gleefully suffocated Rick or left the door open for him to be torn apart just to make sure he died, and then tripped off to take up with Lori. Or maybe he was meant to be a villain, and the show decided that "ambiguity=bad!" so decided to make villains so evil they have become unrecognizable as human beings. They're evil just for the sake of being evil. They delight in being evil. They have no other facets or goals. No remorse. No empathy. No nothing. Just Evil, through and though.

Welp. Be impressed by me noticing things about the fandom. Lol.

I think what made Shane great, other than Bernthal, is that he grew into the villain and a lot of his stuff was like "Welllllll... it's not the worst thing," or you kind of got it. He had to go by the end and was unstable but he wasn't always the bad guy of the show. You saw him go from flawed to bad to villainous and even near the end he wasn't always wrong. His descent meant something because of the background and how it wasn Instantaneous. Rick grew into Shane in a lot of ways and bizarrely they're trying to redeem a much worse person in seasons 9 and 10. He was practically part of a different show now and might not be a villain by current standards. 

Meanwhile, Negan and Alpha... are Negan and Alpha from day 1. And they won't fucking die.

[nodorothyparker]

On 10/9/2019 at 10:01 PM, AngelaHunter said:

I feel I'm the only one who didn't see Shane as a villain at all. He was a hothead who went off the rails when Lori cut him dead after the Return of Ricky. But Shane was the only one who, after the outbreak, went to the hospital to try and save Rick and when he saw he couldn't, at least did what he could to protect him if he recovered or not, and barely escaped with his life. If he were one of the Super"I'll tie you to the railroad tracks" Evils of this show, he would have gleefully suffocated Rick or left the door open for him to be torn apart just to make sure he died, and then tripped off to take up with Lori. Or maybe he was meant to be a villain, and the show decided that "ambiguity=bad!" so decided to make villains so evil they have become unrecognizable as human beings. They're evil just for the sake of being evil. They delight in being evil. They have no other facets or goals. No remorse. No empathy. No nothing. Just Evil, through and though.

Shane was a great example of an antagonist who gradually descended into outright villainy and he was successful as a character because we got to see most of that transition in real time and then he died.  He didn't hang around for another three seasons to torment Rick while Rick alternatively threatened/dithered about what to do about him.  Negan and Alpha both showed up fully formed mustache twirlers tying innocents to the tracks.  The Governor more or less did too, but the writing still dropped enough hints and David Morrissey was able to do enough with him that he didn't become as tiresome nearly as quickly.  That his entire storyline from start to finish was only a season and a half total also helped.   Negan showed up at the end of season 6 and we're now in season 10.  I will say I think Jeffrey Dean Morgan as an actor has tried at times to give us some hint of nuance or something, but the writing really hasn't done him any favors in its hurry to give him yet another my dick and my balls pants shittin' monologue.  He was also introduced as such a tremendously black black hat that trying to convince us he's anything but that now is always going to be a really hard sell for a lot of people.

My unpopular opinion is that the show really missed the boat on bringing back and offing Morales over the course of one episode.  I know everyone cheered at the time when Daryl killed him to shut him up, but if he had been brought back as Negan or even in the Dwight or Simon as lieutenants roles, it would have made a great tie-back to those earlier seasons and it would have automatically provided a backstory of what went so horribly wrong to turn him into this.  Last time we saw him, his wife and kids were still alive and he was choosing to take his chances to go look for other family rather than follow Rick and the crew.  It's not Rick's fault that his family died, especially given Rick's track record of losing people who did follow him, but had he blamed Rick anyway it would have made Morales as Negan's endless dick measuring and torture of Rick also make at least some degree of sense.

But I realize that probably boiled down to wanting higher profile actors for those roles and poor planning and none of this has anything to do with this episode anyway.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Carol using the walker blood to put out the fire was the cheesiest thing I’ve seen lately. Second was Daryl knocking over the burning tree with the hatchet

I think this speaks to what I beat the proverbial dead horse about - the show is pouring almost all of its energy into visuals instead of writing interesting stories. I'm sure if you could stand to sit through the mutual back patting on Talking Dead you'd get yourself a heaping helping of Greg Nicotero explaining how they set up those shots and how long it took them and how cool it was and blah blah blah. That's really all that's left of the show - "cool" looking moments where they think of some new, awesome was to eviscerate a Walker.

The discussion about Shane above really underlines that fact. Everyone on the show now is more or less a one-dimensional cartoon character. Surely no other character exemplifies that trait more than Eugene. For the love of God, I can't believe we lost Rick, Carl, Glenn and Maggie but we still have fuckin Eugene. 

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I'm sure if you could stand to sit through the mutual back patting on Talking Dead you'd get yourself a heaping helping of Greg Nicotero explaining how they set up those shots and how long it took them and how cool it was and blah blah blah.

Never have. Never will. This kind of thing actually makes me feel embarrassed for the participants for a number of reasons. "Cool" is something your strive for in your teens. "Cool" is not so much when it makes no sense and it's so obvious that is the ultimate goal.

[enoughcats]

On 10/8/2019 at 10:43 PM, DrNowsWeightScale said:

I wish we didn't have to see an injured deer get eaten up by zombies.

Since most of the zombies have been zombies for ten years (or so), how the hell are their joints still articulated and how are their teeth strong enough to bite through deer hide?  I can sort of allow for them to bite other humans, but deer hide?  I'd expect to see a bunch of toothless zombies trying to gum a deer.

[AngelaHunter]

On 10/10/2019 at 9:24 AM, nodorothyparker said:

Shane was a great example of an antagonist who gradually descended into outright villainy and he was successful as a character because we got to see most of that transition in real time and then he died.  He didn't hang around for another three seasons to torment Rick while Rick alternatively threatened/dithered about what to do about him.  Negan and Alpha both showed up fully formed mustache twirlers tying innocents to the tracks.  The Governor more or less did too, but the writing still dropped enough hints and David Morrissey was able to do enough with him that he didn't become as tiresome nearly as quickly. 

Yes to all this. Shane and the Governor had enough nuance that we didn't know for sure what they would do. Both of them cared about certain other people and did possess human emotions, but did they retain enough of those qualities to change what they might become or do? We didn't know for sure and that was what made them interesting and earlier on gave them hope of redemption. With Alpha and Negan, there is no doubt in the least. We know that anything they do is going to be vile and evil and destructive and that makes for mighty boring villains, on par with the Penguin or other comic book baddies. Merle was an example of a truly interesting character, an opportunist and survivor who was not a good person, but not cartoon evil. We never knew what he would do either. Just looking at Negan and Alpha and listening to them talk bores me into a coma. Neither of them ever say one word that sounds like anything a human being would say. Negan could save 100 kids and dogs from snowstorms and it doesn't change a thing.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Since most of the zombies have been zombies for ten years (or so), how the hell are their joints still articulated and how are their teeth strong enough to bite through deer hide?

Not necessarily. I mean, I'm assuming the zombies that still have the strength to walk around and bite people are recently dead, not ones that died in the ZA 10+ years ago. We get new zombies every time someone dies and nobody impales their brain. 

Otherwise, yeah - it's absurd to think rotting corpses could remain intact exposed to the elements for that long. Unless part of the zombification process includes some sort of magical cohesion.

Edited October 11, 2019 by iMonrey

[shanndee]

I...totally forgot the show had started. Does this mean that I'm finally free?

I didn't hate it. I just had no feelings about it at all. Except for the Carol and Daryl parts. I enjoyed those. I still love their relationship (whatever form it takes). The semi-shipper part of me still hopes that they finally end up together, but if that doesn't happen I'll enjoy watching them torment each other as besties.

Other than that...no feelings. I guess I can just watch the death spiral dispassionately.

Maybe I really am free...

Edited October 12, 2019 by shanndee
spelling!

[amazinglybored]

16 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Not necessarily. I mean, I'm assuming the zombies that still have the strength to walk around and bite people are recently dead, not ones that died in the ZA 10+ years ago. We get new zombies every time someone dies and nobody impales their brain. 

Otherwise, yeah - it's absurd to think rotting corpses could remain intact exposed to the elements for that long. Unless part of the zombification process includes some sort of magical cohesion.

I don’t think they are. You’d expect way lower numbers, wouldn’t you? They still have herds and from what we’ve seen, they don’t have the human population to sustain those any more. TWD ones would be out of commission long before the 10 year mark and cities were pretty uninhabitable every time we’ve seen them because of the continued numbers.

Zombies just make no sense unless they’re magical. They’d rot, get destroyed by the elements and don’t prevent their own injuries. The worst case scenario in colder climates would be waiting for winter to handle them, in reality.