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nodorothyparker

S10.E01: Lines We Cross

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On 10/7/2019 at 1:47 PM, AngelaHunter said:

There were also the piglets, the horse Daryl approached in the field, the feral dogs our gang ate(understandable), the goat of the Cheesemaker, and the dogs when Negan threw the walker in at them at the Sanctuary (ridiculous).

And don’t forget Buttons. (Or is that who you meant re Daryl?)

Carol using the walker blood to put out the fire was the cheesiest thing I’ve seen lately. Second was Daryl knocking over the burning tree with the hatchet. I still like Carol and Daryl and Michonne and a handful of older characters, but I don’t think any of them can carry the show as leads. I don’t really care about the newer folks. 

It occurred to me that I never watched last season’s finale. Had lost interest by then. 

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21 hours ago, amazinglybored said:

And, possibly controversial personal opinion, Shane was the best villain and he died at the end of season 2

I think that's the general opinion so I feel I'm the only one who didn't see Shane as a villain at all. He was a hothead who went off the rails when Lori cut him dead after the Return of Ricky. But Shane was the only one who, after the outbreak, went to the hospital to try and save Rick and when he saw he couldn't, at least did what he could to protect him if he recovered or not, and barely escaped with his life. If he were one of the Super"I'll tie you to the railroad tracks" Evils of this show, he would have gleefully suffocated Rick or left the door open for him to be torn apart just to make sure he died, and then tripped off to take up with Lori. Or maybe he was meant to be a villain, and the show decided that "ambiguity=bad!" so decided to make villains so evil they have become unrecognizable as human beings. They're evil just for the sake of being evil. They delight in being evil. They have no other facets or goals. No remorse. No empathy. No nothing. Just Evil, through and though.

8 hours ago, valandsend said:

When Tara (and that guy who disappeared soon after) first found Oceanside

This is such a perfect example of why we don't care what happens to anyone anymore. We (or maybe I should say "I") don't even know their names. "That guy", or the "music guy" or the "kids", "that lady", "the kid who got killed on the road", etc. Well, okay - we DID know Neil's name, whoever the hell he was, so that's something I guess.

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On 10/8/2019 at 2:11 PM, icemiser69 said:

Daryl couldn't keep that kid in line, Daryl was the one that was supposed to be watching over him.   She has to have some anger directed towards Daryl, but we just haven't seen it.  Daryl isn't responsible for that kid getting killed.  The Whisperers are responsible for his death, but it is a normal human reaction to at least blame Daryl for his failure in not protecting the kid, at least for the short term. 

Somehow I can't see her blaming Daryl for that. She knows she couldn't protect her own child (Sophia, I mean, not that irritating twerp Henry) and remembers how Daryl doggedly searched for her. AND Henry wasn't some little 12-year-old girl who had just been thrust into this new world. Henry was nearly a grown man, who grew up post-ZA. Daryl shouldn't have had to babysit him. Short of tying the little bastard up, there wasn't much he could do.

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18 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I think that's the general opinion so I feel I'm the only one who didn't see Shane as a villain at all. He was a hothead who went off the rails when Lori cut him dead after the Return of Ricky. But Shane was the only one who, after the outbreak, went to the hospital to try and save Rick and when he saw he couldn't, at least did what he could to protect him if he recovered or not, and barely escaped with his life. If he were one of the Super"I'll tie you to the railroad tracks" Evils of this show, he would have gleefully suffocated Rick or left the door open for him to be torn apart just to make sure he died, and then tripped off to take up with Lori. Or maybe he was meant to be a villain, and the show decided that "ambiguity=bad!" so decided to make villains so evil they have become unrecognizable as human beings. They're evil just for the sake of being evil. They delight in being evil. They have no other facets or goals. No remorse. No empathy. No nothing. Just Evil, through and though.

Welp. Be impressed by me noticing things about the fandom. Lol.

I think what made Shane great, other than Bernthal, is that he grew into the villain and a lot of his stuff was like "Welllllll... it's not the worst thing," or you kind of got it. He had to go by the end and was unstable but he wasn't always the bad guy of the show. You saw him go from flawed to bad to villainous and even near the end he wasn't always wrong. His descent meant something because of the background and how it wasn Instantaneous. Rick grew into Shane in a lot of ways and bizarrely they're trying to redeem a much worse person in seasons 9 and 10. He was practically part of a different show now and might not be a villain by current standards. 

Meanwhile, Negan and Alpha... are Negan and Alpha from day 1. And they won't fucking die.

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On 10/9/2019 at 10:01 PM, AngelaHunter said:

I feel I'm the only one who didn't see Shane as a villain at all. He was a hothead who went off the rails when Lori cut him dead after the Return of Ricky. But Shane was the only one who, after the outbreak, went to the hospital to try and save Rick and when he saw he couldn't, at least did what he could to protect him if he recovered or not, and barely escaped with his life. If he were one of the Super"I'll tie you to the railroad tracks" Evils of this show, he would have gleefully suffocated Rick or left the door open for him to be torn apart just to make sure he died, and then tripped off to take up with Lori. Or maybe he was meant to be a villain, and the show decided that "ambiguity=bad!" so decided to make villains so evil they have become unrecognizable as human beings. They're evil just for the sake of being evil. They delight in being evil. They have no other facets or goals. No remorse. No empathy. No nothing. Just Evil, through and though.

Shane was a great example of an antagonist who gradually descended into outright villainy and he was successful as a character because we got to see most of that transition in real time and then he died.  He didn't hang around for another three seasons to torment Rick while Rick alternatively threatened/dithered about what to do about him.  Negan and Alpha both showed up fully formed mustache twirlers tying innocents to the tracks.  The Governor more or less did too, but the writing still dropped enough hints and David Morrissey was able to do enough with him that he didn't become as tiresome nearly as quickly.  That his entire storyline from start to finish was only a season and a half total also helped.   Negan showed up at the end of season 6 and we're now in season 10.  I will say I think Jeffrey Dean Morgan as an actor has tried at times to give us some hint of nuance or something, but the writing really hasn't done him any favors in its hurry to give him yet another my dick and my balls pants shittin' monologue.  He was also introduced as such a tremendously black black hat that trying to convince us he's anything but that now is always going to be a really hard sell for a lot of people.

My unpopular opinion is that the show really missed the boat on bringing back and offing Morales over the course of one episode.  I know everyone cheered at the time when Daryl killed him to shut him up, but if he had been brought back as Negan or even in the Dwight or Simon as lieutenants roles, it would have made a great tie-back to those earlier seasons and it would have automatically provided a backstory of what went so horribly wrong to turn him into this.  Last time we saw him, his wife and kids were still alive and he was choosing to take his chances to go look for other family rather than follow Rick and the crew.  It's not Rick's fault that his family died, especially given Rick's track record of losing people who did follow him, but had he blamed Rick anyway it would have made Morales as Negan's endless dick measuring and torture of Rick also make at least some degree of sense.

But I realize that probably boiled down to wanting higher profile actors for those roles and poor planning and none of this has anything to do with this episode anyway.

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Carol using the walker blood to put out the fire was the cheesiest thing I’ve seen lately. Second was Daryl knocking over the burning tree with the hatchet

I think this speaks to what I beat the proverbial dead horse about - the show is pouring almost all of its energy into visuals instead of writing interesting stories. I'm sure if you could stand to sit through the mutual back patting on Talking Dead you'd get yourself a heaping helping of Greg Nicotero explaining how they set up those shots and how long it took them and how cool it was and blah blah blah. That's really all that's left of the show - "cool" looking moments where they think of some new, awesome was to eviscerate a Walker.

The discussion about Shane above really underlines that fact. Everyone on the show now is more or less a one-dimensional cartoon character. Surely no other character exemplifies that trait more than Eugene. For the love of God, I can't believe we lost Rick, Carl, Glenn and Maggie but we still have fuckin Eugene. 

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1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I'm sure if you could stand to sit through the mutual back patting on Talking Dead you'd get yourself a heaping helping of Greg Nicotero explaining how they set up those shots and how long it took them and how cool it was and blah blah blah.

Never have. Never will. This kind of thing actually makes me feel embarrassed for the participants for a number of reasons. "Cool" is something your strive for in your teens. "Cool" is not so much when it makes no sense and it's so obvious that is the ultimate goal.

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On 10/8/2019 at 10:43 PM, DrNowsWeightScale said:

I wish we didn't have to see an injured deer get eaten up by zombies.

Since most of the zombies have been zombies for ten years (or so), how the hell are their joints still articulated and how are their teeth strong enough to bite through deer hide?  I can sort of allow for them to bite other humans, but deer hide?  I'd expect to see a bunch of toothless zombies trying to gum a deer.

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On 10/10/2019 at 9:24 AM, nodorothyparker said:

Shane was a great example of an antagonist who gradually descended into outright villainy and he was successful as a character because we got to see most of that transition in real time and then he died.  He didn't hang around for another three seasons to torment Rick while Rick alternatively threatened/dithered about what to do about him.  Negan and Alpha both showed up fully formed mustache twirlers tying innocents to the tracks.  The Governor more or less did too, but the writing still dropped enough hints and David Morrissey was able to do enough with him that he didn't become as tiresome nearly as quickly. 

Yes to all this. Shane and the Governor had enough nuance that we didn't know for sure what they would do. Both of them cared about certain other people and did possess human emotions, but did they retain enough of those qualities to change what they might become or do? We didn't know for sure and that was what made them interesting and earlier on gave them hope of redemption. With Alpha and Negan, there is no doubt in the least. We know that anything they do is going to be vile and evil and destructive and that makes for mighty boring villains, on par with the Penguin or other comic book baddies. Merle was an example of a truly interesting character, an opportunist and survivor who was not a good person, but not cartoon evil. We never knew what he would do either. Just looking at Negan and Alpha and listening to them talk bores me into a coma. Neither of them ever say one word that sounds like anything a human being would say. Negan could save 100 kids and dogs from snowstorms and it doesn't change a thing.

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Since most of the zombies have been zombies for ten years (or so), how the hell are their joints still articulated and how are their teeth strong enough to bite through deer hide?

Not necessarily. I mean, I'm assuming the zombies that still have the strength to walk around and bite people are recently dead, not ones that died in the ZA 10+ years ago. We get new zombies every time someone dies and nobody impales their brain. 

Otherwise, yeah - it's absurd to think rotting corpses could remain intact exposed to the elements for that long. Unless part of the zombification process includes some sort of magical cohesion.

Edited by iMonrey
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I...totally forgot the show had started. Does this mean that I'm finally free?

I didn't hate it. I just had no feelings about it at all. Except for the Carol and Daryl parts. I enjoyed those. I still love their relationship (whatever form it takes). The semi-shipper part of me still hopes that they finally end up together, but if that doesn't happen I'll enjoy watching them torment each other as besties.

Other than that...no feelings. I guess I can just watch the death spiral dispassionately.

Maybe I really am free...

Edited by shanndee · Reason: spelling!
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16 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Not necessarily. I mean, I'm assuming the zombies that still have the strength to walk around and bite people are recently dead, not ones that died in the ZA 10+ years ago. We get new zombies every time someone dies and nobody impales their brain. 

Otherwise, yeah - it's absurd to think rotting corpses could remain intact exposed to the elements for that long. Unless part of the zombification process includes some sort of magical cohesion.


I don’t think they are. You’d expect way lower numbers, wouldn’t you? They still have herds and from what we’ve seen, they don’t have the human population to sustain those any more. TWD ones would be out of commission long before the 10 year mark and cities were pretty uninhabitable every time we’ve seen them because of the continued numbers.

Zombies just make no sense unless they’re magical. They’d rot, get destroyed by the elements and don’t prevent their own injuries. The worst case scenario in colder climates would be waiting for winter to handle them, in reality.

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Why is Siddiq just getting PTSD now? I mean, shouldn't everybody have had it for years already?

Except for maybe Judith, because she's a magical Mary Sue child.

With the flashbacks he had of Alpha, I have to wonder if before he met Coral maybe he spent some time in Whisperville. Maybe they needed a doctor. Maybe Uncle Fester had a wound that was festering.

Another thing that crossed my mind today was this: When I ride a bike, my hair gets blown backward and upward and sideways until I look like Albert Einstein. So how the hell does Daryl's all stay the way it does? There must be a truly hilarious amount of deleted footage of them fixing his hair every time he gets off the motorcycle because for some reason they think "unkempt" means "brushed down in front."

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9 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Why is Siddiq just getting PTSD now? I mean, shouldn't everybody have had it for years already?

Yes. I mentioned ages ago that everyone should have severe PTSD after all the horrific trauma they've suffered, but only Sidiq seems to show any sign of it, with the flashbacks. I did wonder why he's so special. I mean, the others were in a human slaughterhouse and nearly became barbeque for a bunch of cannibals, fer cryin' out loud. That would mess up my head permanently.

9 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

There must be a truly hilarious amount of deleted footage of them fixing his hair every time he gets off the motorcycle because for some reason they think "unkempt" means "brushed down in front."

😂

"Hold still! We need to put a few more strands directly over your eye."

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