S03.E11: Liars

[Umbelina]

Yes!

I still can't tell if Serena is arrested too, or if she set him up.

I think she set him up, they didn't read her the script about the arrest.

[LittleRed84]

Need a murder cleaned up? Call Jezebel’s Houskeeping 1-800-Blood-Removers

[Ramona]

Okay, I need some serious clarification.  Did Serena set Fred up? If so, to what end?  How did the Martha know June was there in order to help hide Winslow's body? What is going to happen to Lawrence and June now, what did he mean they'll be coming for us? OMG, my head is spinning!  Why did it take them so long to get to this point.  I felt like I was watching a different show.  Wow! 

[LittleRed84]

Ok so why all of a sudden June decides to slink to the floor and act like she’s scared and frozen... Get your ass up, wash the blood off, and go back to Lawrence. This isn’t your first trauma. They write this BS shit just to create unnecessary drama. 

And that last scene with Lawrence? Why does he think they’re coming for them? Did someone see them at Jezebels? Is he referring to him trying to get past a checkpoint with his wife and being refused? Why is he so scared?

And I 100% think Serena traded Fred for her freedom. Not for Nichole. I think she hopes to see Nichole having proved that she did something “good” but I don’t think she’s aiming at getting custody back. But maybe. 

[rideashire]

What kinda bougie jail cell do they have Fred in? Throw him in the dirtiest hole you have, come on, Canada!

Having said that, YES! Finally! I think Serena set him up for sure, the way she left was like she knew she wasn't going back. I just don't know if she thinks they'll give her the baby in exchange for Fred...or what, she's got her own motive but I can't figure out how she thinks this will play out aside from getting to be free in CA. There ain't gonna be a baby in this for her unless she goes off and makes one of her own.

I enjoyed June killing Detective Stabler way more than I should have. He really does a good job playing a sleazy asshole. Those Martha's are way too good at clean up not to have done that before.

Also, this is unimportant, but the way Fred and Serena just walked off while that family went through the trouble of singing a whole ass song for them was very rude. They're not singing for themselves. They're singing for company and ya'll choose that moment to go for a woods walk. This bugged me. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by rideashire

[Umbelina]

16 minutes ago, Ramona said:

Okay, I need some serious clarification.  Did Serena set Fred up? If so, to what end?  How did the Martha know June was there in order to help hide Winslow's body? What is going to happen to Lawrence and June now, what did he mean they'll be coming for us? OMG, my head is spinning!  Why did it take them so long to get to this point.  I felt like I was watching a different show.  Wow! 

I think Serena MIGHT have set Fred up!  (Only because they weren't telling her all the stuff about being arrested.)

I think the Martha was just doing her normal housekeeping thing, and she's one of the ones June picked to be saved, so she helped.  She might have helped anyway, seems like there are a lot of resisters in Jezebels.

I have no idea!  It was a very realistic fight scene though, with June not knowing to try and hit a jugular vein with that pen, and just frantically stabbing him, until it seemed she hit his lung.

How would they know it was June though?  Lawrence certainly seemed sure of it though...but now, with his two biggest enemies, Fred and Winslow gone?  Maybe he'll rise again after all.

I loved how everyone was dissing June and her plans too, and loved it even more when they decided to try!

Edited July 31, 2019 by Umbelina
to not the

[HeySandyStrange]

Even though I saw it coming (I mean, did Fred really think the US government wasn't going to take their chance to capture one of Gilead's head hanchos?), it was satisfying to see the troops surrounding him, Spy Gut reading off Fred's many crimes, and the line of uniformed US officials giving him the fuck you! glare.

As usual, June fumbles and bumbles along, while others do all the heavy lifting. I guess somehow, she'll use her superpowers to somehow not end up on the wall for murder and her Black ops shit. I kind of love the Marthas, man. More then ever I want a Martha episode.

It feels like it's been forever since we've seen our peeps in Canada. I hope next week they will be celebrating Fred's capture.

Spoiler

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, LittleRed84 said:

Ok so why all of a sudden June decides to slink to the floor and act like she’s scared and frozen... Get your ass up, wash the blood off, and go back to Lawrence. This isn’t your first trauma. They write this BS shit just to create unnecessary drama. 

And that last scene with Lawrence? Why does he think they’re coming for them? Did someone see them at Jezebels? Is he referring to him trying to get past a checkpoint with his wife and being refused? Why is he so scared?

And I 100% think Serena traded Fred for her freedom. Not for Nichole. I think she hopes to see Nichole having proved that she did something “good” but I don’t think she’s aiming at getting custody back. But maybe. 

Killing someone is a pretty big deal, that and the fact that she was nearly killed herself?  She was entitled to catch her breath and gather her wits...but yeah, wash the damn blood off, and put on the heels!

No idea what happened with Lawrence, looks like Fred and Winslow have stripped him of his previous powers...but now they are gone...so?

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Serena AND Fred better face the music. 

I will forever hate this show if Serena somehow wiggles out of this 

[Ramona]

1 minute ago, HeySandyStrange said:

I kind of love the Marthas, man. More then ever I want a Martha episode.

Yes, totally.  I said to myself, why couldn't we have seen more of them throughout the season, it would have been more interesting.  

3 minutes ago, HeySandyStrange said:

I guess somehow, she'll use her superpowers to somehow not end up on the wall for murder and her Black ops shit.

I don't know, I've been having a sinking feeling all season June is done for.  I think she is going to sacrifice her life to save the children.  Not sure how I feel about that, but it make sense. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I didn't mind June's shock when she made the kill. This is after all her first.

She has some catching up to do if she wants to be a stone cold killer like myEmily 

[Ramona]

1 minute ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Serena AND Fred better face the music. 

I will forever hate this show if Serena somehow wiggles out of this 

Yes. That's what I am afraid of.  I was so busy wondering if Serena was being arrested too, that I couldn't enjoy watching Fred get arrested.  I want Serena to be punished too.  She should not get off in my book.  She is just as guilty and complicit as her creepy husband. 

[Umbelina]

19 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Serena AND Fred better face the music. 

I will forever hate this show if Serena somehow wiggles out of this 

I think Serena did cut a deal, or they would have been giving her the speech they gave Fred, right?

I'm OK with that...I love that she's the one who "dun him in" and I seriously doubt she's going to get a happy ending here.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Umbelina
typo

[chocolatine]

None of this made any sense.

- The Marthas' Network apparently has a strict reporting hierarchy, but 52 Marthas still cheerfully sent muffins in response to a very risky proposition without consulting their Boss-Marthas first.

- How did Fred and Serena not pass *any* checkpoints on their road trip?

- Why were the Gilead Homesteaders singing Dona Nobis Pacem from Catholic mass? I thought Catholicism was verboten under Gilead, and I even seem to remember seeing a bishop hang on the wall in S1.

- WTF is Billy going to do with "all the art" if he's stuck in Gilead? How is he going to get it out of Lawrence's house? Where is he going to keep it? W. T. F.?

- If Canada was seriously "negotiating" with Fred and other Gilead honchos over returning the refugees, and has hosted him on official visits before, why are they all of a sudden allowing Tuello to arrest him for war crimes? Did they get any new information recently?

This show is so frustrating.

[Ramona]

11 minutes ago, rideashire said:

just don't know if she thinks they'll give her the baby in exchange for Fred...or what, she's got her own motive but I can't figure out how she thinks this will play out aside from getting to be free in CA. There ain't gonna be a baby in this for her unless she goes off and makes one of her own.

Thank you.  That's what I was confused about.  I mean, there is no way they would give her that baby, right? I was so busy thinking about that, it ruined the pleasure of seeing Fred arrested.  Oh well, I'll just re-watch it.  🙂 

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

- WTF is Billy going to do with "all the art" if he's stuck in Gilead? How is he going to get it out of Lawrence's house? Where is he going to keep it? W. T. F.?

He's one of the black market guys that Nick used to deal with maybe?  Either he loves art or he loves money...or both.

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

- If Canada was seriously "negotiating" with Fred and other Gilead honchos over returning the refugees, and has hosted him on official visits before, why are they all of a sudden allowing Tuello to arrest him for war crimes? Did they get any new information recently?

Looks like we guessed correctly, it was just a ploy to try to get information?  I never seriously thought Canada would give a baby back, especially not a girl baby.

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

- How did Fred and Serena not pass *any* checkpoints on their road trip?

They may have, but Fred's a honcho now, even more than before, so perhaps they just didn't waste the time showing them?  There wouldn't be any on the Canadian side, since obviously Canada IS working with the USA.  (another interesting reveal there)

Edited July 31, 2019 by Umbelina

[Ramona]

24 minutes ago, rideashire said:

Also, this is unimportant, but the way Fred and Serena just walked off while that family went through the trouble of singing a whole ass song for them was very rude. They're not singing for themselves. They're singing for company and ya'll choose that moment to go for a woods walk. This bugged me. 

😂🤣🤣

[Umbelina]

June's lucky Winslow has a shoe fetish, she got in a couple of significant kicks with those spiked heels!

[LittleRed84]

They pretty clearly address the “did Serena set Fred up” question in the Inside the Episode, if anyone is curious. I won’t spell it out, as it’d be considered a spoiler. 

[AnswersWanted]

Man oh man, so much fucking bullshit so little time. 

The pacing of this episode was torturous, keeping everything dark and slow does not equal “dramatic flair” show. It just means it’s hard to see shit and the dialogue drags ass. 

Fred and Serena are so boring now that the show doesn’t know what the fuck to do with them.

Should they be good or bad or badly good or goodly bad or just converse with each other about a bunch of unimportant expositional bs. 

So Canada moved its’ border again, that was sure helpful for their little drive. 

What an anticlimactic “arrest” scene, and obviously neither actor is going anywhere yet, so it was frankly pointless. Until Joseph gets his walking papers, bro is not going anywhere.. 

This is going to tie into the trade agreement with Canada I’m gonna bet, Fred will be traded for a refugee they might be willing to send back, like say...Nicole or Emily. And I am already bored.

Good thing June was able to talk down Mrs. Lawrence, she’s gotten so good at being everybody’s everything now, it makes you wonder why the hell she was such a terrified and desperate little wuss during season 1 and 2 if she was THIS much of a badass all along. It only took what, her third mental breakdown? Or maybe fourth? I’ve lost count. 

Too bad we still haven’t been properly introduced to the Marthas’ resistance, not like they might have a fairly interesting and intriguing story to tell that would be much more entertaining than watching June curl up her top lip for the millionth time. 

She actually used the phone in Lawrence’s house and connected directly to someone within Gilead and no one came knocking to find out why, how very coincidental. It’s like the fates are always smiling upon our dearest June. 

I now officially declare her to be June Wick, because killing a man twice her fucking size and strength with a pen AND accompanying pottery was straight out of a John Wick movie. 

Too bad she didn’t top it off with one of those “jump onto his shoulders and twist her legs around his neck to snap it before she then barrel rolled and flipped him clear across the room”. 

I mean that’s totally how Sydney did it in “Alias”, and sure she was supposed to be this highly trained government agent and spy who had spent years and years learning from the very best in her field, but frankly I now have such expectations thanks to shit like this, show, don’t be so basic. 

Also, is June at least going to get one of those secret poisonous pens or a fancy set of ninja throwing stars? 

Also also, just how sharp was that pen supposed to be exactly anyway? Was it 95% scalpel? 

Welp, I guess what they say is true: (Removes glasses and stares directly into the camera like June, with smirk and all). “The pen IS mightier that the sword, bitch.” 

God, now I feel dirty...

And of course, the Martha who saves June was one of the random 5 June saved from the colonies! She saw June and everything and knew who she was and knew she owed her a great debt ! I mean, what a coincidenc- aw fuck it, just fuck it...I give up. 

I. GIVE UP. 

Basically this entire fucking episode happened and it was pretty much labeled - “June survives this”. 

That has to be how they title these episodes now, right? 

Also they killed off my dude Meloni for fucking what?! 

That man was one of the best actors by far they’ve managed to hire and they just kill him off?

He had a shit ton of kids, he had a hard-on for Fred, maybe, he was mean, and now he’s dead, the end. 

These writers are fucking hacks, they totally wasted him and everything his character could have been. But of course wandering couple Fred and Serena are still prancing about, alive. 

Commander Keller would have been a perfect figure to use to bring forth a new age of Gilead, more cruel and desperate than before, and his new control of the regime could have started triggering more and more rebellions, more infighting, etc. 

But that all would require the telling of a story and the show clearly has no time for that anymore. 

They spent 5 goddamn minutes on a laundry scene...good thing the show has time for such in your face Drama!!!, it was really important we get a feel for the fabric and the blood stains, that’s at least 2 Emmys right there, I am sure of it. 

So the guards that used to patrol Gilead, they’re all pretty much dead now, right?

I mean these mf-ers never seem to be on duty anymore most of the time. 

How could there be no patrols or checkpoints on that long stretch of road? Not even a rando drone flyover to offer surveillance? 

More importantly how the hell did the government guy get anywhere near Gilead to lead Serena and Fred across any border near enough to cross over to Canada using a car? Just a simple car, no disguises, no hidden 0r secret paths, just driving and then a fuck ton of armed soldiers that are the “good guys”.

That may be the most bull of bullshit this season yet.

There is no fucking way a road to Canada or anything close to it is going unchecked to that degree, it doesn’t matter who is approaching, they would have more guards than trees out there. It’s a path to FREEDOM for christ’s sake! 

I guess Emily’s driver wasn’t aware of the road to manifest destiny or maybe he wouldn’t have dropped her off at the bank of a raging river to drown along with a baby...

Gah! 

Oh, wait, what’s that? Clearly they had to be able to travel that entire distance untouched and completely unbothered by anyone, and also secret government agent man as well, so a pointless arrest could be made as we only have 2 episodes left in the season and those Emmys just don’t win themselves? 

Ohhhhhh...I hate this show. 

Apparently Commander Keller’s Guard and/ or driver didn’t think twice about his boss just vanishing into thin air. Guess he was just taking a super duper long smoke beak or something...

Also no one watches Fred and Serena anymore, because it’s not not like they have any kind of questionable past history that would require them to be regularly surveilled or anything. 

I mean sure, they initially had a fucking Eye in their house before, but they’re totally trustworthy now, after all their many costly fuckups that have impacted Gilead. 

But hey, it sure was good for them that they could zip off without a mere hint of suspicion because it made their little road trip so easy peasy.  

So will we ever see Rita again? How nice that her bonding with Serena granted her an opportunity to escape Gilead right alongside with...oh, right, no one cares about Rita. 

Did that family hosting Fred and Serena serve any real purpose aside from making me think I had accidentally switched to the “Ye ol’ Hymns of Yore” channel?

I mean really, they had to go through all of that just to get Fred and Serena to talk about shit? Because just having them talk about shit in the car wasn’t enough? We needed a rigorous religious backdrop as well? Complete with “thankful members of Gilead”? Yawn. 

Also also they totally missed a perfect opportunity to have them singing “There is a balm in Gilead “, but I digress.

If this show spent half the time it does on useless filler scenes and actually bothered to film shit that matters, they might still be making something worthwhile. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by AnswersWanted

[Umbelina]

22 minutes ago, LittleRed84 said:

They pretty clearly address the “did Serena set Fred up” question in the Inside the Episode, if anyone is curious. I won’t spell it out, as it’d be considered a spoiler. 

Do you have a direct link?  I can never find those damn things the first day!

Never mind, finally found it.  It's in the spoiler thread now.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Umbelina

[mamadrama]

Why do they need a plane? Apparently there's a direct road to Canada without any checkpoints. Problem solved!

June's not even wearing plot armour anymore-she's progressed to being downright invisble. That's the only ecplanation for her walking out covered in blood without a care in the world, right?

With all the eye-rolling dialogue on this show, for once it could've been utilized to really give NotStabler an earful right before his brain leaked out of it. But nope. 

Fred's household is filled with more drama than my old college's theatre dept and yet he can apparently go willy nilly at will. Even before he started flirting with Commander Stabler he was able to pass all the checkpoints just fine. And yet the architect of the damn economy, he whose bright idea was to form the Colonies, can't even get across town?

Sure, Jan. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by mamadrama
Fat fingers=weird misspellings on tablet

[AnswersWanted]

1 minute ago, mamadrama said:

Why do they need a plane? Apparently there's a direct road to Canada without any checkpoints. Problem solved!

Fred's household is filled with more drama than my old college's theatre dept and yet he can apparently go willy nilly at will. Even before he started flirting with Commander Stabler he was able to pass all the checkpoints just fine. And yet the architect of the damn economy, he whose bright idea was to form the Colonies, can't even get across town?

Sure, Jan. 

Hell, they shouldn’t even need a truck! Just give them lil kiddos some roller skates and bicycles, maybe a wagon or two to pull. 

They can just lie and say they’re all going on a picnic or something, no one is apparently going to question shit anymore.

If I were Emily I’d be so fucking PISSED to find out that road exists but I got dropped off to battle the raging rapids of certain death with a damn baby all by myself. 

She could have at least WALKED it people, geez. 

And of course this incredible lapse in security is occurring AFTER Emily escaped with Nicole.

Because sure, Gilead has been hanging anyone who scratches an itch without permission, but this pathway to the promise land, patrol it? Nahhh...

I feel like it was around this time during the season BW told the show runners he was going to have a new show airing on NBC, and so instead of trying to write Lawrence according to everything we know about him so far, like how powerful he is, he is now only as good as being June's helpmate because they don’t know how available he’ll be to keep filming scenes. 

That or they have no fucking idea who this character is. Frankly I think it’s all of the above.

[Umbelina]

They thought the road was clear for Emily, but the bridge was blocked by a surprise patrol.

Fred has clearance and access to knowing which roads are being patrolled, OR he did pass check points and we just didn't see them.  He would be able to pass with ease, he's Winslow's protege now.

Lawrence's clearances  have been revoked, just like they made him redecorate and inspected his "ceremony."  His star is sinking, he had to go to meetings, etc.

Obviously a cargo plane would be safer and quicker for children than a bunch of trucks.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Umbelina

[ferjy]

Another Junecentric show. Starts with June saving the day (what a gal!) and fades out with the requisite June closeup. I’m disappointed (frankly surprised) she didn’t have a hand in getting Fred arrested. We missed having yet another smug face closeup. Darn. 

The whole fight scene with the commander was ludicrous. June is what 5’4”? and hasn’t worked out in years, to the commander’s 6 foot-ish brawny frame and she takes him down! And good job show runners, kill off one of the only interesting guys in the show. There could have been some decent storylines with him. 

And everyone flies to June’s defense. Of course she gets away with even this atrocious an act by Gilead’s terms. OMG please end this madness. What a shit episode. The only good part is when the Marthas were telling June to go take a flying leap at the beginning. I couldn’t even muster up any emotion for Fred’s arrest. 

And it has to be mentioned, that dress looked awful on June. She doesn’t have the figure for it. There are a million dresses they could have fitted her with to make her look good. The wardrobe department is as bad as the writers. The whole thing is a head shaker. 

[Brn2bwild]

This episode was so absurd, and yet awesome at the same time.  Marthas are the best!

I wonder if this is part of Serena's overall plan (and then later plead for sanctuary in exchange for sacrificing Fred)?  She didn't seem very surprised when they were arrested.

[lavenderblue]

Well, I speculated last week in another thread that Serena might've been setting Fred up with the Tuello thing, based on how out of left field it seemed with her other behavior in last week's episode. Started to second-guess the possibility based on some spoilers for this episode, but I am right back there again. There was plenty of ambiguity built into Serena's comments throughout (even her scene with Rita), Yvonne acted the whole thing like a woman who was steeling herself for something terrible (in the character's eyes) but necessary, and crucially, Serena was not seemingly arrested. Tuello was pretty explicit that Fred was the one being charged with war crimes.

Oh yeah and Winslow was here to get killed so...June could get in a first direct kill I guess? Was that scene and the later montage supposed to be empowering instead of nauseating like all the rape and assault scenes ever are? The thing that bugs me the most about Winslow is that his death in some ways just resolves (and creates) issues that only existed because the character was invented to begin with. Also, what was the point of his, uh, posturing towards Fred? Did Meloni just add that stuff in to amuse himself? It certainly went nowhere narratively.

Edited July 31, 2019 by lavenderblue

[LittleRed84]

57 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

Apparently Commander Keller’s Guard and/ or driver didn’t think twice about his boss just vanishing into thin air. 

You’ve mentioned this Keller person several times. Who am I missing? I don’t remember a Keller? 

[AnswersWanted]

22 minutes ago, ferjy said:

The whole fight scene with the commander was ludicrous. June is what 5’4”? and hasn’t worked out in years, to the commander’s 6 foot-ish brawny frame and she takes him down!

Lizzie is all of 5’3 because it just makes it even more impossible.

She should have all of the upper body strength of a wet, limp noodle. And when did she stop limping so badly again?

Obviously they’re implying maybe a day, two at most, have passed since the last episode, otherwise those pastries would be molded and swarming with insects, and she was hobbling along like she had an uneven peg leg but suddenly she can strut her stuff in heels. 

He smashed her face into the floor and she didn’t even get a busted lip. That alone should have knocked her ass right the fuck out, but alas, June just grabs a pen and starts stabbing ‘cause that’s how pens work in Gilead...

Oh yeah, I like totally forgot about the CLOSED FIST DIRECT PUNCH TO THE FACE he delivered and she has zero, count it, nada, zip facial bruising from it. 

I uh...I need a drink...

Edited July 31, 2019 by AnswersWanted
All the reasons...

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, LittleRed84 said:

Need a murder cleaned up? Call Jezebel’s Houskeeping 1-800-Blood-Removers

lol Gilead must have concocted some superduper cleaning agents to get that blood out so well. Usually carpets are replaced in such circumstances. I guess it would have been a bit much to have the Marthas laying out new wall-to-wall carpeting, on their knees, holding nails between their teeth, banging away with hammers that no one would hear. (But would it, with this show?)

[AnswersWanted]

4 minutes ago, LittleRed84 said:

You’ve mentioned this Keller person several times. Who am I missing? I don’t remember a Keller? 

That’s just my dumb little joke reference to the, now deceased, Commander Winslow. 

The actor, Christopher Meloni, played one of my favorite TV characters on the show “OZ” back in the day, a crazy killer called “Keller”. 

[mamadrama]

28 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

Hell, they shouldn’t even need a truck! Just give them lil kiddos some roller skates and bicycles, maybe a wagon or two to pull. 

They can just lie and say they’re all going on a picnic or something, no one is apparently going to question shit anymore.

If I were Emily I’d be so fucking PISSED to find out that road exists but I got dropped off to battle the raging rapids of certain death with a damn baby all by myself. 

She could have at least WALKED it people, geez. 

And of course this incredible lapse in security is occurring AFTER Emily escaped with Nicole.

Because sure, Gilead has been hanging anyone who scratches an itch without permission, but this pathway to the promise land, patrol it? Nahhh...

I feel like it was around this time during the season BW told the show runners he was going to have a new show airing on NBC, and so instead of trying to write Lawrence according to everything we know about him so far, like how powerful he is, he is now only as good as being June's helpmate because they don’t know how available he’ll be to keep filming scenes. 

That or they have no fucking idea who this character is. Frankly I think it’s all of the above.

Sure is  a good thing that the community has someone to explain everything to them, set them straight, and take charge of it all. Whatever would the rest of them do without her? All she needs now is to have some kind of new, super hero name. It's probably coming.

I think the number of eyerolls I had this time around was down a few notches, though, so that's something anyway.

Snark like yours is literally the reason I keep hanging out here and keep watching. The sarcasm and joking around makes this flustercuck bearable. 'I'm not a stupid person, I know what the show is TRYING to do-it just almost always falls short and that's disappointing. And the day I can no longer snark about it is the day I give up on it for good.

[Miles]

This was actually a good episode. Color me surprised. Would have been nice if this had happened 8 episodes ago.

Still, but for the grace of god (or increadible coincidence), June almost fucked the resistance. I mean imagine if one of the highest commanders had been found murdered at Jezebels, how much they'd have cracked down on security, which would have prevented the shipment form getting there.

Then again, I do like that they brought back June chosing the survivors. But I would have liked it more if June had actually cultivated these people for the resistance, like she had originally planned, instead of the other crap we got this season. Then it also wouldn't have been such a coincidence that one of them worked at Jezebels. June would have known that and maybe could have even gone to her for help instead of being discovered by accident.

I really liked the martha cleaning up montage, but burning a human body isn't easy. In that standard furnace they'll still have a skeleton left over... even after a while there'll still be bone fragments. Oh well, that is the least of the bad writing this season.

While I enjoy the waterfords being arrested... now Canada and the international community all of a sudden give a shit?! Why weren't the waterfords arrested at their previous trips to Canada? Were they officially diplomats? Would that matter for war criminals? I don't think so. I mean we saw Canada entertaining the idea of giving a baby back to those people, now all of a sudden it's being tried for war crimes. Weird.

Also I'm reading this right, Serena was behind this, she sold Fred out, right?

[ScarletLetter]

And that's a series wrap on Winslow. I felt like there was a ton of potential in that character that went to waste, but oh well. 

I liked the Serena and Fred stuff this episode, but I think it lacked a lot of impact because they kept waffling back and forth with the characters this whole season. For Fred, I'm never quite sure what he actually wants. It seems like he was enthralled with DC and the power he could have, and his decision to choose Serena and the baby over that should have been meaningful, but it was undercut by last week's episode and his unrelenting fascination with June. 

As for Serena Joy, I think she was in on Fred getting arrested (I hope so anyway, otherwise they're both dumb to just blindly follow that car for MILES apparently) but she's been so two faced for so long it's hard to care anymore. I hope they both hang, honestly. 

[Miles]

2 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

Also they killed off my dude Meloni for fucking what?! 

He had a shit ton of kids, he had a hard-on for Fred, maybe, he was mean, and now he’s dead, the end. 

These writers are fucking hacks, they totally wasted him and everything his character could have been. But of course wandering couple Fred and Serena are still prancing about, alive. 

I know right?! At least he should have given Fred a good assfucking first. I suffered through this season, I deserve some mensex!

1 hour ago, ferjy said:

lol Gilead must have concocted some superduper cleaning agents to get that blood out so well. Usually carpets are replaced in such circumstances. I guess it would have been a bit much to have the Marthas laying out new wall-to-wall carpeting, on their knees, holding nails between their teeth, banging away with hammers that no one would hear. (But would it, with this show?)

Maybe I'm in a good mood today, but I can fanwank this. If they got to the blood really fast, before it dried, they would have a chance to get it out... then again, it was light outside when they got to it and it seemed like June had made it home in the meantime. So they didn't get to it fast... In fact what were the Martha's doing for what seemed to be multiple hours? Just stand around and wait for somebody to come looking for the commander? I gueess the showrunners wanted to have that scene set during the magic hour. Style over substance, again... -_-

So, I guess, I really can't fanwank this. Never mind.

2 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Why do they need a plane? Apparently there's a direct road to Canada without any checkpoints. Problem solved!

Again, fanwanking: I think getting out of the population centers is the hard part. There are multiple checkpoints.

There seem to be barely any people living outside of them anymore and the leadership doesn't seem to care enough to keep them from leaving, to actually spend resources on border security. It's a long ass border and Gilead is stretched thin as it is.

Also remember, Moira basically walked to Canada, back in the good season, so there is precedent.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Miles

[Ariam]

I had to watch this on a bad internet connection in segments so I’C e forgotten most of the beginning. But woah what crap. 

That was the worse killing scene in tv history ever. Stabbing to death a person twice your size with A KNIFE is hard work but with a pen?? Through a shirt?!! She wouldn’t have been able to puncture his skin!! She would have left little pen marks on his shirt, that’s it. There is no way June could have ever killed him like that it was ridiculous. At least show her use something a bit more credible!!! I can’t believe people buy that shit and even exhault how great it was. And what happened to women being oppressed with no way out in Gilead? Oh right, it doesn’t apply to June anymore. She can just kill off the main guy with a fucking biro.

Also, apart from the ridiculousness of Tuello being able to leisurely drive into Gilead and take someone out on a road (wading through bushes like Moira did us much more credible, driving a car -not) what happened to check points inside Boston?? When Fred took June to jezebels she had to wear Serena’s coat to pass as her, then at the last check point she had to bend down and hide as “even wives are not allowed past this point”. Now she sits in the front seat wearing whatever and covered in blood????  These are small things where they could at least try to care. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Ariam

[burghgal]

Ok --- massive plotholes aside, I actually liked this episode because we are finally moving forward..... somewhere, I hope.  I also liked the music in the episode :-).  I still want a Commander Lawrence,  or rather Mrs. Lawrence backstory, and would like a "Martha's tale" episode.  Good lord those ladies have perfected cleaning to an art -- guess those PhDs do help in their new roles after all.

Edited July 31, 2019 by burghgal

[revbfc]

I’m going to assume they were driving through that ambiguous area in Vermont, and that was why the American agent was able to drive around all casual-like without being arrested for treason himself (assuming Gilead considers all US citizens under their jurisdiction).

As for the casualness with which the Marthas disposed of Winslow’s body: I bet they have to do that a lot…but usually the bodies are women.

[Trillian]

5 hours ago, ferjy said:

lol Gilead must have concocted some superduper cleaning agents to get that blood out so well. Usually carpets are replaced in such circumstances. I guess it would have been a bit much to have the Marthas laying out new wall-to-wall carpeting, on their knees, holding nails between their teeth, banging away with hammers that no one would hear. (But would it, with this show?)

For sure. I kept thinking during that scene that I wanted one of whatever kind of vacuum cleaner that was. I have a pretty powerful steam cleaner but there’s no way even fresh protein stains come out like that with just one swipe. 

6 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Why do they need a plane? Apparently there's a direct road to Canada without any checkpoints. Problem solved!

June's not even wearing plot armour anymore-she's progressed to being downright invisble. That's the only ecplanation for her walking out covered in blood without a care in the world, right?

With all the eye-rolling dialogue on this show, for once it could've been utilized to really give NotStabler an earful right before his brain leaked out of it. But nope. 

Fred's household is filled with more drama than my old college's theatre dept and yet he can apparently go willy nilly at will. Even before he started flirting with Commander Stabler he was able to pass all the checkpoints just fine. And yet the architect of the damn economy, he whose bright idea was to form the Colonies, can't even get across town?

Sure, Jan. 

Fred cannot just come and go at will but he can drive himself (and let a Wife drive) without anyone in this police state noticing or caring. And good thing the cool car didn’t have GPS to tell him he was crossing the miraculously- undefended border. When I first saw (in the preview) the scene of Fred pulling up in front of the hotel, I thought it was a car commercial. Cool shades too.  

Also bugged:  how do American officials have any authority to arrest someone on Canadian soil? The image of the one Canadian jeep standing passively by, apparently ceding sovereign authority to the brave Americans, really stuck in this Canadian’s craw.  Also internally inconsistent within the show’s universe.  Remember Moira’s saying to send out the Marines to arrest Fred and being told “we have no authority here. We’re guests of the Canadian government”?

It’s things like these that take me out of the show. Details do matter. 

[bmoore4026]

Well, I wasn't expecting Black Widow June to kill Commander Stabler.  I do like that she was a bit clumsy in her stabbing of him, at first  But then she turned into La Femme Nikita and effortlessly stabbed him and then smashed his head in with one blow from that statue. 

And June has the Devil's own luck with that Martha showing up being one of the women she saved.  I did find it odd that those two people walked right by a beaten and bloody June and didn't bat an eye.  I'm guessing this is a regular occurrence in Jezebel's?

How is this show not about the Marthas?  They're the ones that seem to have the more interesting backstories.

And my hopes for Commander Lawrence have been dashed now that it turns out he's  a big coward.  I mean, I'm not exactly the bravest man myself, but if you're going to set up someone to be an ambiguous savior fighting against a system he helped make, go through with it or don't bother having the character at all.  Now, he's given June a gun.  June has now gained the title "Assassin Handmaid".

On the upside THE WATERFORDS HAVE BEEN ARRESTED!!!  YAY!  GIVE THEM THE CHAIR!  GIVE THEM THE CHAIR!

Edited July 31, 2019 by bmoore4026
It's "give" not "given"

[HollyG]

I'm still digesting this episode. I'm glad Stabler is dead. I'm sure the Marthas have cleaned up this type of mess before.. but its probably the women being injured or killed. 

Very satisfying to see Fred being arrested. If anyone is interested in how/why Fred was arrested, find the trailer for next week on YouTube. I don't want to post it here as it's very spoilery.

[dmc]

My only thought is I don't care what deal Serena made, she's a criminal too.  Arrest her.  And don't give her Nicole/Holly.

[HollyG]

23 minutes ago, dmc said:

My only thought is I don't care what deal Serena made, she's a criminal too.  Arrest her.  And don't give her Nicole/Holly.

Yes, she is a criminal. I agree she should never see Holly again. Perhaps she can't fully redeem herself, but I'm interested to see what else she can do to help the resistance. This is a pretty big defection for Gilead.  

[dmc]

2 minutes ago, HollyG said:

Yes, she is a criminal. I agree she should never see Holly again. Perhaps she can't fully redeem herself, but I'm interested to see what else she can do to help the resistance. This is a pretty big defection for Gilead.  

Her redeeming herself is like a Nazi commander redeeming themselves.  It's impossible. Any good she does doesn't make her unaccountable for her actions.  She and the commander are equally accountable.  

Edited July 31, 2019 by dmc

[maggiegil]

I loved it, hands down the best episode of the season.

Winslow being gone and Fred being jailed given that they were the ones against Lawrence could get him back his power and mean he has the codes back etc. If he was serious about taking down Gilead and not just concerned for his wife and himself, he could make a move and change things given hes the only one who knows Winslow is gone but I doubt that will happen

Waterford really wasn't thinking it through, even if he hadn't been arrested theres no way the Nicole plan would have worked. Did Fred think they could just show up with a child that has been negotiated over for months and no one would question why she was just handed over.

Did Mrs. Lawrence come back when he did? We didn't see her, right or did I miss something. I was kind of expecting a reveal that Joseph had murdered her or something to end her suffering when he discovered he couldn't get them out.

It will be interesting to see how Winslow is dealt with, will they assume hes a traitor or will foul play be assumed?

Will Serena be well known in Canada given the videos? I hope she doesn't get off for this.

[burghgal]

A few little details here:  On the drive to/capture in Canada, I noticed that the stop signs were "hands" at one point (aka Gilead), but than it seems they went on a dirt road and crossed a very makeshift bridge over a small river.  Now I could have my geography wrong but until you get into Vermont/New Hampshire/Maine - the border with Canada is either via a lake or a larger river (St. Lawrence) correct?  So they must've hit that area.

.

Spoiler

I

Edited July 31, 2019 by burghgal

[txhorns79]

10 hours ago, Ramona said:

Okay, I need some serious clarification.  Did Serena set Fred up? If so, to what end? 

I presumed she did set him up, with the end being she is reunified with Nicole in Canada. 

[jenn31]

The writers figured they’d have a winner with this pathetic episode (I see you giving yourselves pats on the backs) by throwing in the arrest. Get the viewers to cheer that Fred is going to finally get his, because we really don’t care about proper plot development. The whole thing was so poorly executed with so many plot holes. The entire episode was bad with so many boring parts to boot. My finger was hovering over the FF button on the remote. The timeline seemed all wrong too. Just how long have those muffins been sitting there? I was inspecting them for mold. I can’t wait up see the wives having at them. 

Right off the bat we’re supposed to cheer June on for stopping Eleanor from shooting Joseph (pat, pat, pat). I guffawed. I was praying hard that in a scuffle Eleanor would put a bullet in June. Of course June’s invisible body armor is as thick as her plot armor, no doubt, so I quickly canned that dream. 

As people have mentioned, the Marthas are so underused. That whole network and the Marthas’ backstories (nooooooo!) could be so interesting. Yet the only reason they are in the show is to pop up to aid June whenever she needs help (always!) in her rattlebrained schemes. What a waste of everyone on the show. 

Which brings me to Commander Winslow (you guys and his past roles naming, this show is confusing enough in its idiocy! 😄  ). Why bring in a big name like Meloni for a few episodes then kill any impending stories they hinted at? Which, I may add, were potentially more interesting than the usual crap they keep subjecting us to. We never even got a naked butt shot before his demise! Does he have a role in the same new show as Bradley Whitford? (Don’t get me started on the butchering of that character!) Whitford must be secretly stealing the cast members to his other show to salvage them from this rapidly declining mess of a show. Please Bradley, don’t take Moss with you!

Edited July 31, 2019 by jenn31

[Ms Lark]

7 hours ago, Miles said:

I really liked the martha cleaning up montage, but burning a human body isn't easy. In that standard furnace they'll still have a skeleton left over... even after a while there'll still be bone fragments. Oh well, that is the least of the bad writing this season.

I'm pretty sure the Marthas have had plenty of practice cleaning up victim messes left behind by the pervy Commanders. I want a Marthas spinoff!!

3 hours ago, revbfc said:

As for the casualness with which the Marthas disposed of Winslow’s body: I bet they have to do that a lot…but usually the bodies are women. 

Beat me to it!

That said, I'm so glad Fred has been arrested. I hoped they'd take Serena, too, but she's probably got a deal going. Then, again...

[greekmom]

3 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

On the upside THE WATERFORDS HAVE BEEN ARRESTED!!!  YAY!  GIVE THEM THE CHAIR!  GIVE THEM THE CHAIR!

The chair is too good for the Waterfords. I say put them through the same humiliation that June went through on a monthly bases and then hang them. 

2 hours ago, dmc said:

My only thought is I don't care what deal Serena made, she's a criminal too.  Arrest her.  And don't give her Nicole/Holly.

I thought the deal was coconuts (aka Hawaii) and a child of her own. Not Holly.

1 hour ago, maggiegil said:

It will be interesting to see how Winslow is dealt with, will they assume hes a traitor or will foul play be assumed?

I'm hoping trader. My one regret with Winslow is that he didn't press Fred for his intentions.  I would have loved to see if Fred either smooth talks his way out of that situation or reports him or both.