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S04.E05: Losing Streak

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Veronica discovers Keith has been hiding something scary from her. The real reason for Penn's latest theory on the bomber comes to light. Veronica loses confidence in new friend, Nicole, owner of the Comrade Quacks. 

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Nice episode, glad to see that the mystery is getting more twisted. Although it still seems like Big Dick got his idea for a crime from Scooby Doo.

Also I didn't really care for Veronica basically saying she was too high to drive, but it would be a good idea to go shoot her gun instead.

The Keith brain injury stuff is interesting, mostly because Bell and Colantoni play it so well. Altough it does bug me that 5 years since the movie (and 2 books since then) and we still have no idea who killed deputy Sacks.

Edited by Kel Varnsen
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I got a little confused in this episode. I must have missed where the bomber blackmailed the Mayor into running naked? And I don't know why Veronica is 110% convinced that Big Dick is responsible for the bombings. It's possible I'm just distracted from binging it. I should probably stop and take a moment to process.

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3 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Damn. Nicole was my main suspect, but the fact that she's already being suspected with three more episodes to go means that she's probably not.

I am curious about this. It seems like a pretty big jump from her parents own a construction company to she has the skills to build some neck collar bomb thing. Plus how did she figure out how to blow up and frame the Chino guy.

Also did they even bother to explain how Nicole new Walace and his wife?

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Wow, Mather Zickel has made a career of playing dickheads - Sam's ex on Better Things, Liza's ex on Younger, Virginia's ex on Masters of Sex. Loved when the chief stood up to his blustering ass and told him to sit his ass down.

Heh, I really felt for Veronica when she was at Wallace's party. The last thing I want to do in my free time is listen to people talk about maintaining the integrity of their bathroom while remodeling or the same old waiting list for preschool stories. NO ONE CARES.

Cliffy! I love that he's still defending the kind hearted, patriotic prostitutes of Neptune.

Keith is taking a lot of risks investigating Clyde. He was making me so nervous.

I loved Alonzo and Dobie having lavender lattes. It was sad listening to them talk about what kind of lives they could have had.

Speaking of sad, it broke my heart when Weevil brought up that he and Veronica used to be close and she shut that down. I totally understand that her first loyalty will always be to Keith and that she was incensed when Weevil settled his case instead of going after the sheriff's department and exposing them. I really do get why she's holding a grudge against Weevil, but it makes me so sad to see their relationship destroyed. Remember when she trusted Weevil more than she trusted Logan?

9 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

I must have missed where the bomber blackmailed the Mayor into running naked?

Someone sent a letter to the police department claiming to be the bomber. The deputy brought the letter (which had a list of demands) to Chief Langdon who brought it to the mayor. After he read it, he said he wouldn't give in to their demands but Theresa (who was seen at the city council meeting) and Chief Langdon told him he should do it. He said he would have to discuss it with his wife first.

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I felt like Weevil and Veronica's storylines paralleled one another strongly in the movie - Veronica is out of the Neptune life but gets drawn back in to private investigation, and Weevil is out of petty crime only to have his whole world come crashing down so he is sucked back over the wrong side of the tracks. So it's interesting to me that Veronica is so angry at Weevil - I can see her being frustrated that he settled the case, but you would think she could have a little more compassion for his need to financially take care of his family. She and Weevil are on the same path, so I think her anger at him is partly her anger at herself for being pulled back into Neptune and turning her back on the more financially lucrative career that would have allowed her to take care of her dad. I also wonder if part of her anger was because he was telling her that he doesn't have a choice but she does, because she doesn't want to confront how her choices have led her to this somewhat isolated and unhealthy mental place. 

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Shit, I'm not an 09'er but it is damn hard to match the vintage tile in your bathroom!

I always like Veronica's and Weevil's interactions. She has been through a lot of shit but she still has white privilege and she just doesn't see Weevil's side of things sometimes. It's a character flaw that rings true.

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2 hours ago, legxleg said:

I felt like Weevil and Veronica's storylines paralleled one another strongly in the movie - Veronica is out of the Neptune life but gets drawn back in to private investigation, and Weevil is out of petty crime only to have his whole world come crashing down so he is sucked back over the wrong side of the tracks. So it's interesting to me that Veronica is so angry at Weevil - I can see her being frustrated that he settled the case, but you would think she could have a little more compassion for his need to financially take care of his family. She and Weevil are on the same path, so I think her anger at him is partly her anger at herself for being pulled back into Neptune and turning her back on the more financially lucrative career that would have allowed her to take care of her dad. I also wonder if part of her anger was because he was telling her that he doesn't have a choice but she does, because she doesn't want to confront how her choices have led her to this somewhat isolated and unhealthy mental place. 

I think the thing about Weevil taking a settlement behind Cliff and Keith's backs something from one of the books. If so it is nice they are recognizing those.

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3 hours ago, festivus said:

I always like Veronica's and Weevil's interactions. She has been through a lot of shit but she still has white privilege and she just doesn't see Weevil's side of things sometimes. It's a character flaw that rings true.

And she had the benefit of having Keith Mars as a dad. He would move heaven and earth for her. We don't know very much about Weevil's family but I'm guessing they weren't insistent that he go to college the way Keith was with Veronica. That alone can make a huge difference. It's not just the actual college degree that matters (although that definitely expands a person's options for jobs they're eligible for). It's the fact that someone has expectations for you, encourages you, supports you, and would do anything to see you achieve your goals. Veronica has always had Keith in her corner, even when he didn't agree with her choices. He puts her happiness above his own, which is why he has urged her to follow her dreams and get out of Neptune, even though that means leaving him behind.

I'm not saying that Weevil doesn't have all of that. We really don't know since we've only had glimpses of a few of his family members over the years. But we do know that Veronica has had that and that's a huge advantage in life.

Veronica has had a lot of terrible things happen in her life but she feels that she has done the right thing, even when it wasn't legal. She judges Weevil because she thinks he's doing the wrong thing, never considering what his choices were. If she got married, had a kid, and then wasn't doing well financially, she would always have Keith as a safety net. Not everyone else has that. If Weevil felt he needed the settlement money to support his family more than he needed revenge, is that necessarily wrong? Some people might say it showed maturity. But Veronica sees it only from her point of view - that he betrayed her father and that robbed the Mars family of their revenge/vindication.

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19 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And she had the benefit of having Keith Mars as a dad. He would move heaven and earth for her. We don't know very much about Weevil's family but I'm guessing they weren't insistent that he go to college the way Keith was with Veronica. That alone can make a huge difference. It's not just the actual college degree that matters (although that definitely expands a person's options for jobs they're eligible for). It's the fact that someone has expectations for you, encourages you, supports you, and would do anything to see you achieve your goals. Veronica has always had Keith in her corner, even when he didn't agree with her choices. He puts her happiness above his own, which is why he has urged her to follow her dreams and get out of Neptune, even though that means leaving him behind.

I'm not saying that Weevil doesn't have all of that. We really don't know since we've only had glimpses of a few of his family members over the years. But we do know that Veronica has had that and that's a huge advantage in life.

Veronica has had a lot of terrible things happen in her life but she feels that she has done the right thing, even when it wasn't legal. She judges Weevil because she thinks he's doing the wrong thing, never considering what his choices were. If she got married, had a kid, and then wasn't doing well financially, she would always have Keith as a safety net. Not everyone else has that. If Weevil felt he needed the settlement money to support his family more than he needed revenge, is that necessarily wrong? Some people might say it showed maturity. But Veronica sees it only from her point of view - that he betrayed her father and that robbed the Mars family of their revenge/vindication.

If I remember Weevil was arrested at HS graduation?  He'd promised his Abuela that he would graduate. I don't think college was even in the picture. But he certainly had a grandmother who was in his corner and stronger and more numerous family bonds than Veronica had, I'd guess--hence is need to support them.

Although I really have no faith in Veronica's consistency of character at this point I think that in the movie/books she felt that Weevil's rejoining the gang and working with her (or at least informing) was a sign they were kindred spirits. By which I mean it wasn't entirely because he took the settlement, it was a personal betrayal. 

However this is a good point about white privilege and maybe, like Keith's medical woes, one of the things the revival got right. 

Edited by Affogato · Reason: them not him
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Kill me now. I cannot stop watching this, yet I want to watch very very slowly so it lasts longer. The 13 year wait was pure torture.

Keith and Veronica are so perfect.

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Just wrapped up this episode. This revival is so good—easily trumps the movie and anything after season one. And the quality and pacing are consistent. I didn’t have very high hopes after how meandering and uneven izombie has been, but they definitely are firing on all cylinders here. 

So much keeps happening that by the end of the episode I forget my mental list of things I wanted to post about.

The dialogue is so tight. Season one tight. Maybe there is a different writers’ room makeup for izombie, or maybe RT/DR just have Veronica’s voice and snark down to a science now. Her stuff with Keith is the best.

I’m also appreciating that they’re keeping the comedy in without going OTT with quirk. They have a hard time balancing this in izombie, in my opinion. 

I really liked the opening scenes with Veronica and Nicole getting high and then shooting bottles. I’m glad the show hasn’t lost touch with its original theme of douchebags and sexual assault. I think someone mentioned in another thread that RT was downright prescient with that. 

Oh, and the new theme song is growing on me.

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The idea that Veronica can't be happy iin Neptune doesn't make sense to me. She could have friends-- she does have friends-- she just ignores them. Wallace, for example. And she doesn't seek out danger by being a PI any more than Logan seeks it out being in the Navy, or Leo seeks it being in the FBI. And the idea that she should just abandon her dad with dementia and leave him alone? What kind of monsters are writing those ideas?????

Veronica's unhappiness, if she's unhappy, is not about needing to take some lucrative job elsewhere. That's never who she was. I get that Logan is bitter and upset, but if HE is unhappy, he needs to own that and not blame it on Veronica. He can leave her if he's unhappy. He can talk to her about what he needs from her. But what the hell is he doing trying to tell her she isn't happy when she's not even complaining?

The neck bomb and the vending machine bomb and the other nail bombs don't have to be made by the same person. The neck bomb could be Nicole while the others are Clyde et al, maybe. Or it could all be someone(s) else.

I'm also wondering about the police chief. I liked her most of the time, but then what is this business about slow walking all the clues given to her, and her not seeming to be actually finding any herself?

I'm not remembering all the people who are being brought back. I sometimes remember their names and faces but not their stories. I didn't remember either of the guys Veronica visited in prison.

I wonder why Veronica believed the pooper was telling her the truth. He could have said whatever he thought she wanted him to, just to get her to give him the money and drop the case.

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Keep in mind, I am not done with this episode but I had to get this out: 

1) Veronica threatening that kid with death left a bad taste in my mouth. And her playing the victim saying she was gonna tell the DA how frightened she was just made me not like her in that moment. Maybe it’s cause of the voice she used and the times we are in but damn. That was harsh V. They had the insight to include the atrocities of rape sentences and the discrepancies within race/class with the Brock Turner comments but not the insinuation about false witness statements and their effects on the poor and disenfranchised. Again, I haven’t finished the episode so who knows how that played out. Not a question, just a thought.

2) It completely boggles my mind when ppl are using their camera (while investigating or undercover or some other super sleuth activity) and either the flash is on or the clicking picture sound is on. PPL CAN HEAR THAT. ARE U TRYING TO ATTRACT ATTENTION TO YOURSELF?? I’m at that point with Keith and Clyde where Keith is taking shots of Clyde’s texts and I am anxious AF. Had to pause to write this. You’re gonna get caught man! 

Ok well, I guess I can take it off pause now lol. 

P.S. Logan, his quotes and his quips are all I needed. I know this happened in an earlier episode but the way he called out for Piz in the back had me cackling. 🤣🤣 I’d take this Logan over ‘drowning my sorrows in tequila and tri delts’ Logan any day of the cussing week. V is crazy. I’d gladly watch Harlots and eat paella with you boo! Lol 

Edited by CerealKiller813
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22 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

last thing I want to do in my free time is listen to people talk about maintaining the integrity of their bathroom while remodeling or the same old waiting list for preschool stories. NO ONE CARES.

Here’s the thing. She doesn’t have to go to these parties though. Wallace knows she isn’t about this so she could have easily declined the invitation or made up some work thing without fear of him feeling some kind of way. No, instead she chooses to go and turn her nose up at the ppl who are there. You’re right that listening to someone explain the difference between kitchen tiles or paints can be nauseating but she has choices. She wasn’t forced to go or even stay in the conversation. That’s the shit I don’t understand about Veronica. She acts like there isn’t any other choice. 

22 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Speaking of sad, it broke my heart when Weevil brought up that he and Veronica used to be close and she shut that down. I totally understand that her first loyalty will always be to Keith and that she was incensed when Weevil settled his case instead of going after the sheriff's department and exposing them. I really do get why she's holding a grudge against Weevil, but it makes me so sad to see their relationship destroyed. Remember when she trusted Weevil more than she trusted Logan?

It makes me sad too. I’m sure this wasn’t a decision Weevil made lightly and I hope they delve into what happened there. Was this discussed somewhere after the movie?! I see posters writing about books but I haven’t read and VM books, just an avid watcher of the tv show and subsequent movie. Also, her throwing back his wife and kid in his face...wow! This is why I didn’t feel bad when the pizza guy brought up Keith’s past because it is all FACTS. It may hurt to relieve it but it’s the truth. She could dish it but she can’t take it. 

I’m so happy this show is back!! Can you tell I’m a fan? Lol 

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9 hours ago, possibilities said:

The idea that Veronica can't be happy iin Neptune doesn't make sense to me. She could have friends-- she does have friends-- she just ignores them. Wallace, for example. And she doesn't seek out danger by being a PI any more than Logan seeks it out being in the Navy, or Leo seeks it being in the FBI. And the idea that she should just abandon her dad with dementia and leave him alone? What kind of monsters are writing those ideas?????

Veronica's unhappiness, if she's unhappy, is not about needing to take some lucrative job elsewhere. That's never who she was. I get that Logan is bitter and upset, but if HE is unhappy, he needs to own that and not blame it on Veronica. He can leave her if he's unhappy. He can talk to her about what he needs from her. But what the hell is he doing trying to tell her she isn't happy when she's not even complaining?

The neck bomb and the vending machine bomb and the other nail bombs don't have to be made by the same person. The neck bomb could be Nicole while the others are Clyde et al, maybe. Or it could all be someone(s) else.

I'm also wondering about the police chief. I liked her most of the time, but then what is this business about slow walking all the clues given to her, and her not seeming to be actually finding any herself?

I'm not remembering all the people who are being brought back. I sometimes remember their names and faces but not their stories. I didn't remember either of the guys Veronica visited in prison.

I wonder why Veronica believed the pooper was telling her the truth. He could have said whatever he thought she wanted him to, just to get her to give him the money and drop the case.

Here’s the thing that is ringing true to me with what Logan said: she wasn’t living in Neptune this whole time. She had actually moved and was living a whole other life (happily I presume) before she was “pulled back” so what exactly is keeping her here? The big case before was Logan’s case but what about the break between the movie and now? After the case against the sheriff fell through, what kept her there?? Wasn’t she shitting on the town all the time anyway?? Whatever is happening with Keith is new to her so she can’t say She is staying for her dad’s health since she just found out about it.

Then her comments about not wanting Therapy Logan is triggering for me. Can the damn man TRY to better himself.? I can’t stand when ppl come to you for advice then shit all over your advice. Well, WHY ASK THEN?? I understand her dad is a touchy subject but since she knows Logan is all “enlightened” and shit, why not pose this question/conundrum to one of her other friends? You knew the type of answer you would get.

I do have the feeling that the bombs can be by more than one person but IDK. The first episode makes me know we are all gonna be thrown for a loop on this one.

on to episode 6!

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Veronica threatening that kid with death left a bad taste in my mouth. And her playing the victim saying she was gonna tell the DA how frightened she was just made me not like her in that moment. Maybe it’s cause of the voice she used and the times we are in but damn. That was harsh V. They had the insight to include the atrocities of rape sentences and the discrepancies within race/class with the Brock Turner comments but not the insinuation about false witness statements and their effects on the poor and disenfranchised. Again, I haven’t finished the episode so who knows how that played out. Not a question, just a thought.

The 'kid' had violently assaulted her, twice, both times with a knife. Including a verbal threat of rape. Just a counterpoint. Women who are attacked don't bear a responsibility to politely consider the background of their attackers. Just my opinion. 

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28 minutes ago, kieyra said:

The 'kid' had violently assaulted her, twice, both times with a knife. Including a verbal threat of rape. Just a counterpoint. Women who are attacked don't bear a responsibility to politely consider the background of their attackers. Just my opinion. 

You are totally correct in that way. I wasn’t thinking of this in the broader sense of a woman considering her attackers background but Veronica considering this one boy’s background as this is the situation at hand.

Edited by CerealKiller813 · Reason: Internet cut out before I could finish my post
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1 hour ago, CerealKiller813 said:

It makes me sad too. I’m sure this wasn’t a decision Weevil made lightly and I hope they delve into what happened there. Was this discussed somewhere after the movie?! I see posters writing about books but I haven’t read and VM books, just an avid watcher of the tv show and subsequent movie. Also, her throwing back his wife and kid in his face...wow! This is why I didn’t feel bad when the pizza guy brought up Keith’s past because it is all FACTS. It may hurt to relieve it but it’s the truth. She could dish it but she can’t take it. 

I wonder if Veronica was hoping that Weevil's case going to trial would be able to help her figure out who tried to kill Keith in the movie. Like they could request documents and emails as part of discovery and interview the people in the sheriff's department for depositions. Settling meant none of that happened and that is really why she is pissed. Because I don't understand how she let this go, considering how hard she went after Lily's killer.

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16 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

We don't know very much about Weevil's family but I'm guessing they weren't insistent that he go to college the way Keith was with Veronica. That alone can make a huge difference. It's not just the actual college degree that matters (although that definitely expands a person's options for jobs they're eligible for). It's the fact that someone has expectations for you, encourages you, supports you, and would do anything to see you achieve your goals.

Having just rewatched part of Season 1 in anticipation of Season 4, I know he lived with his grandmother who was perfectly willing to throw him under the bus in place of Chardo (his cousin/brother?) when grandmother was about to be arrested for identity theft after someone opened a bunch of credit cards in the Echolls' name. Since Weevil was only 17 and Chardo was 18 (and had priors I think) Chardo would have had to do more time than Weevil. So I'm thinking Grandma Weevil wasn't really pushing him to be better. She only changed her mind after it was discovered that most of the charges Chardo racked up were because he was dating Logan's 09er girlfriend Paris Hilton (or Katelyn) and he was trying to impress her. 

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I was struggling with a lot of Veronica's actions in this episode. Starting with the drunk shooting to taking the high road with Weevil who put his family first only to do exactly the same a couple of scenes later. I have no problems with her wanting the best medical care for Keith at all costs but what's good for the goose etc.

Like others I was not okay with her blackmailing that little POS - yes, he was a POS but that does not give her the right to play with his life. And I also hated her reverse-snobbery at the party because that's what it was. Nobody forced her to attend and if your BFF invites you to his house-warming you can make at least an effort to be polite and respectful to those friends of his you don't approve of because they *gasp* talk about bathroom tiles.

The 'Therapy Logan' quip was just the icing on the cake of an episode where our heroine wasn't up to her usual standards of awesomeness. But if Logan is the one giving you sound advice about your emotional well-being it's high time to rethink your life.

ETA: They're pushing Matty as Veronica's mini-me way too hard.

Edited by MissLucas
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Is Veronica...alright? I question a lot of her choices being made here, especially getting high and shooting her gun off, especially around a person she doesn't know very well. It just doesn't seem like something Veronica would do, it seems irresponsible in a way that Veronica, even as an angsty teenager, never would have been. She took guns very seriously (remember when she freaked out on Logan for carrying a gun and threatening people with it? That it could escalate things and get him or someone killed?) and her using her gun to show off to her new bestie seems off to me. 

The fight between Veronica and Weevil, on the other hand, was brutal and awful but did seem in character for both of them. I always loved their friendship, and I hate seeing them so estranged, but I can see why both of them are pissed. Veronica can excuse many things, but not going behind her dads back, no matter the excuse, while Weevil has always taken his family very seriously, so he saw taking the money as his best shot at providing for them. Veronica, for all she has suffered and experienced, is also rather blind to her own privileges and assumptions, and tends to see the world through her own experiences, and not anyone elsees. Not that she totally lacks in empathy, but she often sees the world in a way that she understands, so she sees Weevil as doing something unforgivable, while he looks at his life, a poor Latino man with a criminal past, and sees taking the payout as his best option. 

Damn it, Nicole was my big suspect, but now that she is already a suspect, I dont think its her anymore. I like Nicole, but I think this show too often uses rape as a backstory without really exploring what that means well enough, just because there isn't time. Its like how the show often has unsympathetic male characters make constant rape threats and comments, usually towards Veronica, I just think its overused and in bad taste for how serious that topic should be handled. The show has always done this, but I think I am just more aware now. 

I think they are actually doing a good job at showing a Logan who has matured and worked on himself, but is still the Logan we all got to know in the OG series. 

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I think there's an interesting discussion here as to whether Veronica's personality - honed as it is under almost constant warfare during her teen years - is capable of handling a calm and stable existence. She's like a child soldier who's suddenly dumped in a world of peace and doesn't know how to cope. Like an undomesticated animal suddenly living in quiet domesticity. It occurs to me that Logan has dealt with this side of his personality with the military but that she doesn't have an outlet. So what looks like dysfunction on the outside - partying, guns - is Veronica trying to give herself the outlet she needs for the parts of her personality she no longer needs in her daily life.

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I loved how Veronica was tough as hell and had been through a lot, but was always very focused on being sober and smart, no matter how devastated she was. I don't like that "adult Veronica" has lost those life skills and commitments, and is now doing things that are not so lucid. She was actually quite stable in a lot of ways-- she took risks and made mistakes, but she was always focused on her goals and pretty clear-seeing and on task.

I don't think coping using teenager strategies makes her more of an adult. I imagine that on network TV they were forbidden from making her anything but clean cut and wholesome, even if a little wild. But I don't like that the older Veronica is now acting like what a teenager could be expected to do, and has apparently forgotten how to handle herself better. I don't think it makes her more adult, it makes her less of one. So was her previous list of strengths just because of network morality, and now that they've been cut loose from those restrictions, she's going to be more dysfunctional?

I hope not. I don't really like seeing her devolve. It feels like wallowing, on the part of the writers.

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On 7/21/2019 at 11:30 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Speaking of sad, it broke my heart when Weevil brought up that he and Veronica used to be close and she shut that down

A long time ago, we used to be friends... 

The pizza guy has been my #1 suspect so far, but that duck gave me doubts. What did his female friend say? "Look at his little beak"?😁

Yay. More Cliff! 

Whoever said in a previous thread that Logan has marbles in his mouth was correct. I have to keep rewinding. 

Dang, those bombs make me gasp every time! People sure do bounce back from them and the various deaths super fast though. Zero PTSD apparently. 

Edited by Melina22
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15 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Whoever said in a previous thread that Logan has marbles in his mouth was correct. I have to keep rewinding. 

God, me too. I wonder if anyone on set ever mentioned it. IRL, people would make him repeat all the time.

15 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Dang, those bombs make me gasp every time! People sure do bounce back from them and the various deaths super fast though. Zero PTSD apparently. 

Yeah, I'm amazed at how unfazed everybody is. Especially Matty. I get it, she's like Veronica, she's pissed instead of being sad, but man she's cold. She lost her dad in a gruesome way and you would think it happened years ago, she seems so over it.

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This episode really highlighted the show's theme of privilege. Wallace's party just reeked with it and it bothered me not at all that Veronica was upset by it. I've been to those parties and it's excruciating to spend time in the company of people whose priorities are so different from your own. She's fighting for justice and they're worried about bathroom tiles. Kind of like the Mexican gangsters contemplating what a life of safety would look like while watching men streak down the road. Kind of like Weevil deciding to take a settlement for his family while Veronica & Keith can gamble that it all will work out.

 Veronica's lack of maturity was obvious here too. She was reckless with her physical safety (like just dumping a gun out of her purse and shooting while high) but she also demonstrated how little insight she has into her emotional situation. She thinks that just because people let you down gives you license to distrust, not communicate, and maintain emotional walls. I always wondered why she kept her sexual assault from Keith but, watching him hide his mental deterioration from her said volumes about the secrets the Mars family keeps (not to mention Leanne's alcoholism).

She could talk with Wallace about his parties but avoids it. Watching him laugh at Maddie being Veronica-esque was nice. Wallace has always been a great friend to her whenever she let him which was rare. Logan clearly has grown and is willing to do anything for her but she shuts him out. It doesn't seem like she's talked to him about her feelings regarding his proposal other than to get upset that he didn't seem more upset. She teased him about his jealousy (spending 5 hours with an ex is something most people would struggle with, especially after a rejected marriage proposal) instead of reassuring him and then made fun of "Therapy Logan." She's rarely if ever given him credit for growth throughout their entire relationship and it makes me wonder just how long Therapy Logan is going to stand for that. Honestly, he deserves better. And then there's Weevil. These two should've talked out their disagreement long ago. Even now, Weevil had to come to her. 

I really hope they're going to show her at least deal with the bombs going off in her personal life as much as she's working on the bombs in her professional one.

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On 7/27/2019 at 4:27 PM, colormeblue said:

This episode really highlighted the show's theme of privilege. Wallace's party just reeked with it and it bothered me not at all that Veronica was upset by it. I've been to those parties and it's excruciating to spend time in the company of people whose priorities are so different from your own. She's fighting for justice and they're worried about bathroom tiles. Kind of like the Mexican gangsters contemplating what a life of safety would look like while watching men streak down the road. Kind of like Weevil deciding to take a settlement for his family while Veronica & Keith can gamble that it all will work out.

 Veronica's lack of maturity was obvious here too. She was reckless with her physical safety (like just dumping a gun out of her purse and shooting while high) but she also demonstrated how little insight she has into her emotional situation. She thinks that just because people let you down gives you license to distrust, not communicate, and maintain emotional walls. I always wondered why she kept her sexual assault from Keith but, watching him hide his mental deterioration from her said volumes about the secrets the Mars family keeps (not to mention Leanne's alcoholism).

She could talk with Wallace about his parties but avoids it. Watching him laugh at Maddie being Veronica-esque was nice. Wallace has always been a great friend to her whenever she let him which was rare. Logan clearly has grown and is willing to do anything for her but she shuts him out. It doesn't seem like she's talked to him about her feelings regarding his proposal other than to get upset that he didn't seem more upset. She teased him about his jealousy (spending 5 hours with an ex is something most people would struggle with, especially after a rejected marriage proposal) instead of reassuring him and then made fun of "Therapy Logan." She's rarely if ever given him credit for growth throughout their entire relationship and it makes me wonder just how long Therapy Logan is going to stand for that. Honestly, he deserves better. And then there's Weevil. These two should've talked out their disagreement long ago. Even now, Weevil had to come to her. 

I really hope they're going to show her at least deal with the bombs going off in her personal life as much as she's working on the bombs in her professional one.

I think the real problem she had with wallace’s friends is they were people like the woman in those first scenes. She was doing those jobs, no excitement or justice, because her dad wasn’t pulling his weight. She is really burned out with dealing with them  also Logan wants that life. I bet thats an old argument, maybe with law degree as well as babies. 

Logan and V have the same response to trauma. Adrenaline junkies. Logan found a job where he gets it and also respect and self worth and can move up the heirarchy of needs. Not so.  Veronica. She beeded to have trained fbi, swat team, whatever. Both of them need it. The drinking, the dumbas behavior at wee ils garage, fills a real beed for her as the stuff Logan did once did for Logan. 

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While I know this

On 7/23/2019 at 7:37 PM, possibilities said:

I loved how Veronica was tough as hell and had been through a lot, but was always very focused on being sober and smart, no matter how devastated she was. I don't like that "adult Veronica" has lost those life skills and commitments, and is now doing things that are not so lucid. She was actually quite stable in a lot of ways-- she took risks and made mistakes, but she was always focused on her goals and pretty clear-seeing and on task.

I don't think coping using teenager strategies makes her more of an adult. I imagine that on network TV they were forbidden from making her anything but clean cut and wholesome, even if a little wild. But I don't like that the older Veronica is now acting like what a teenager could be expected to do, and has apparently forgotten how to handle herself better. I don't think it makes her more adult, it makes her less of one. So was her previous list of strengths just because of network morality, and now that they've been cut loose from those restrictions, she's going to be more dysfunctional?

I hope not. I don't really like seeing her devolve. It feels like wallowing, on the part of the writers.

in some ways I completely understand this heavy drinking Veronica... I was a complete good girl in high school and college - barely drank until 21 and even then was never one to party it up very much... mainly stemming from having an alcoholic parent. It actually wasn't until I was in my late twenties that I ended up having my heavy drinking weekends when I lived in a big city and didn't have to worry about driving or finding a ride. I finally let myself lose control a bit and I see that in older Veronica. While I am sure that some of it stemmed from being on a "teenage" network, I actually get it it. I also agree with someone else who posted in the other ep thread that she likely didn't take the e but enjoyed the alcohol and weed. 

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On 7/24/2019 at 1:18 PM, Melina22 said:

What did his female friend say? "Look at his little beak"?

She said something along the lines of "I think it was his beak," meaning what stuck her in the back/ alerted her to there being something in the bed.

On 7/24/2019 at 1:18 PM, Melina22 said:

Whoever said in a previous thread that Logan has marbles in his mouth was correct. I have to keep rewinding. 

Close captioning is a wonderful thing...

I've been watching an episode a night (and realize I'm late to the party to begin with...), but I'm really curious about the ending of the previous episode (one of the redneck brothers not being dead) and was surprised nothing was said in this episode. And were we supposed to recognize the fancy-driving guy who saw him? 

Overall I'm enjoying the season, particularly Cliff (hope we get to see The Missus... play date with Pony, maybe?) and Adult Logan. Adult Veronica does kind of suck.

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On 8/14/2019 at 12:55 AM, dargosmydaddy said:

I'm really curious about the ending of the previous episode (one of the redneck brothers not being dead) and was surprised nothing was said in this episode. And were we supposed to recognize the fancy-driving guy who saw him? 

I didn't understand how he could have survived, considering that the Mexican cartel guys are ruthless assassins. Why wouldn't they have shot the brothers in the head, or at least in the heart?

I didn't recognize the driver but also thought I was supposed to recognize him. 

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I didn't put two and two together until I saw in the previously's for the episode after this one:

Spoiler

Keith & Cyrus's duck hunting/shooting, and the duck in pizza-guy's bed.

I think both those things happened here but I didn't catch the connection.

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I don't think Nicole did the bombs.  Had it only targeted the douche frat boy, then maybe.  But I don't believe Nicole would kill the innocent people at the motel.  I wouldn't be surprised though, if it was some other more ruthless disgruntled victim or parent that we don't know about yet.

Did they ever say what Wallace's wife does for work (assuming she work's outside the home)?  As a public school teacher, Wallace's income certainly doesn't indicate he'd be hod-nobbing with 09ers with preschool and bathroom tile problems.   Wouldn't there have been some other public school teachers at the housewarming that Veronica could communicate with on a more equal level?

I was surprised that Police Chief Marcia didn't demand that the tax evader father didn't address her a "Police Chief X (last name)".  He would have done so with a man.  by calling her "Marcia", he pushed her status low so he could berrate her.

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On 9/6/2019 at 11:03 AM, Hanahope said:

I don't think Nicole did the bombs.  Had it only targeted the douche frat boy, then maybe.  But I don't believe Nicole would kill the innocent people at the motel.  I wouldn't be surprised though, if it was some other more ruthless disgruntled victim or parent that we don't know about yet.

Did they ever say what Wallace's wife does for work (assuming she work's outside the home)?  As a public school teacher, Wallace's income certainly doesn't indicate he'd be hod-nobbing with 09ers with preschool and bathroom tile problems.   Wouldn't there have been some other public school teachers at the housewarming that Veronica could communicate with on a more equal level?

I was surprised that Police Chief Marcia didn't demand that the tax evader father didn't address her a "Police Chief X (last name)".  He would have done so with a man.  by calling her "Marcia", he pushed her status low so he could berrate her.

Wallace's wife was a lawyer. That's how they could afford to be in the 09er zip code.

I think it was also used to juxtapose what Veronica's life could have been if she had been a lawyer instead of a PI. 

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I’m working my way through this, but I’m not loving it. I don’t like Veronica any more, I feel bad for Logan and Keith, and the plot isn’t plausible. If they wanted Veronica to be investigating major crimes like bombings of senate candidates they should have kept her in the FBI. I’m also not recognizing most of the cameos, wish they’d give more hints for those of us who didn’t just rewatch the original series - though this is making me want to do a rewatch, if nothing else. I think this show worked when it was focused on being trapped in high school and isn’t working now with adults who have more choices. 

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