The Comics: Same, Yet Different

[mandolin]

I answered FierceCritter's question!

[Anela]

I'm trying to stay mostly spoiler-free, too, now that we've reached Negan (up until now, I've been waiting for people to show up, after comic fans have thrown out who might be showing up next, and in their excitement, let other things slip). 

 

But I have a question. When I googled to find out more about one thing in particular - I think it was Carl - I read something about him meeting a girl in a jail. What with some people still thinking that Enid is with another group, and working our group from the inside, could she be this "Lydia" that I've just read about again? Or do you think she will show up later on?

Edited April 7, 2016 by Anela

[mandolin]

Lydia comes after a significant time jump, and is with a large, unusual group, so I don't think she = Enid.

[Eyes High]

Lydia comes after a significant time jump, and is with a large, unusual group, so I don't think she = Enid.

 

Enid seems closer to Comic Sophia at this point, who is still alive in the comics, who like Enid lost her bio family and who for all intents and purposes is Glenn and Maggie's adopted daughter.

[mandolin]

Pretty amazing how closely they followed the comics this last episode.

http://www.thewalkingdead.com/who-is-negan-2/

[Pete Martell]

Other than one or two moments (like when the show had to replace it with "pegged"), I'd say the endless "fucks" actually get in the way in the panels. 

 

I guess Heath was a much bigger character in the comics than he is on the show.

 

I wonder if his backstory on the show will be the same as it will be in the comics, and which will come out first.

[Ripley68]

A lot of people are thinking of leaving the show because of the head smashing incident saying it was to gruesome, and that they are ok with zombie violence, but not human on human.  I wonder how the show runners will deal with this because pretty much from now on, the books deal more with humans fighting humans and the struggle to rebuild communities.  The people have pretty much figured out how to deal with the zombies now, and pretty much just come across as a hinderance, not the huge threat they once were.  I've told my friends who were disgusted with what happened that it was pretty much a one and done thing, and that as far as I could recall, there wasn't any thing after the head smashing that was as gruesome.

I wonder now if they are going to follow the Carl/Neegan storyline.  At this stage in the show, Carl as matured way beyond the Carl in the comic books.  The Carl on the show would never do what the Carl in the comic books is going to do. The only way I can see it happening is that Rick won't (or appears to not want to) go rescue Daryl.  Carl either gets mad, or realizes the dilemma his dad is in and goes to try and get Daryl himself.  I really liked the Carl/Neegan dynamic and hope they find a way to keep it in.

[rab01]

2 minutes ago, Ripley68 said:

I wonder now if they are going to follow the Carl/Neegan storyline.  At this stage in the show, Carl as matured way beyond the Carl in the comic books.  The Carl on the show would never do what the Carl in the comic books is going to do. The only way I can see it happening is that Rick won't (or appears to not want to) go rescue Daryl.  Carl either gets mad, or realizes the dilemma his dad is in and goes to try and get Daryl himself.  I really liked the Carl/Neegan dynamic and hope they find a way to keep it in.

I liked the dynamic between the two characters in the comics but hated the plotline because it was so unbelievable that Negan would return Carl. Once Negan had Carl and they had something of a bond, the obvious play was to keep Carl at his compound and raise him as an adopted son just letting Rick visit him once a week. That and the harem were the two things I disliked about the Negan storyline through Total War (I haven't read much past that).  I am praying that they don't do either one because I want Negan to be smart, not an idiot.  Some clues dropped last season, however, make me think that they are going to do the harem (blech). 

[Ripley68]

rab01, I think they kind of have to do the harem thing because that sets up the whole future story line with the burned face guy (I can't remember his name right now).  I found it unbelievable Neegan would have returned Carl also.

I have to say, I kind of understand people not wanting to watch after what happened to Glenn. I stopped reading the comic books after that happened.  I kind of speed read them now, but the last issue we got was the one with Carl and the chick in the jail cell.,  I'm not real clear about plot points after the 3 communities come together to take down Neegan.

[rab01]

Yeah, that's a huge part of why I think they'll keep it but it's sooooo dumb and comic-booky and not really in character for Negan either. Except for that harem, he's brutal but smart and principled. That thing was bound to create a huge number of enemies among his own troops - no one stands for that treatment forever and that character was written as smart enough to realize it. With the changes they made to the Governor, I hoped they might make similar improvements to Negan and ground him a little  more in planet Earth but ... 

[Lamima]

I think him returning Carl, and then killing Spencer for suggesting Negan kill Rick and let him be the leader of Alexandria, was all to try and gain trust from Rick. In some twisted way. Later, when he's in jail and Olivia (she's dead on the show, right?) leaves the cell door accidentally unlocked...Negan stays there and tells Rick he wants to prove that he can trust him. I just read the 3rd compendium and there are 2 volumes after that I still need to read, but me thinks Rick will let Negan help him with his Whisperer problem. So all these things did build some trust for Rick.

 

So I think the show will have Carl run off to try and save Daryl. But what will he do with Daryl...since he's not in the comics, I am not sure. And I am guessing Sasha's days are limited as she will take the Holly part and be sent back as a walker. Or Daryl might take that part. I thought Carol would take Michonne's part with Ezekial but maybe Sasha will. Though it seems too soon after Abe. Both women are tormented and don't think they deserve to be happy, like book Michonne.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Lamima

[mandolin]

 I kind of chuckl at the comments about Negan being taken down soon since he is still around in the comics today. 

 I think they could get away with not having the harem, and Dwight could have been burned for just escaping or some other infraction. 

 I think Glenn's death was more well done in the comics, at least the surprise of it and the timing and that it was his alone. I like both show and book Abraham, but I don't think killing him at the same time was fair to either character. 

[rab01]

52 minutes ago, mandolin said:

 I kind of chuckl at the comments about Negan being taken down soon since he is still around in the comics today. 

 I think they could get away with not having the harem, and Dwight could have been burned for just escaping or some other infraction. 

 I think Glenn's death was more well done in the comics, at least the surprise of it and the timing and that it was his alone. I like both show and book Abraham, but I don't think killing him at the same time was fair to either character. 

God, I hope you're right about skipping the harem.

They couldn't do Glenn's death the same way because too many people have read the comics for it to be shocking and gut wrenching if the lead up was the same. So, I sympathize with them in making it two deaths. I just wish they had done it last year and didn't start dumpstergate (which spoiled a bunch of otherwise great episodes that aired immediately after the fake-out).

[mandolin]

I just don't think the show ever intended NOT to Lucille Glenn, you know? Even before I spoiled myself, I guessed Abraham and Glenn, and I'm not usually adept at guessing stuff like that! Unfortunately, I didn't believe he was dead during dumpstergate, and I didn't care by the time the premiere rolled around. I can't believe that I don't care. I mean, wow, GLENN. I was truly horrified when he died in the comics. I remember actually reading that issue. I just have lost the type of connection to the characters I had in earlier seasons (though I still love my man Rick, though not like I did in S1-S3), and I can't exactly pinpoint why, but I think maybe things feel rushed to me in a way the comics didn't, and I read them in compendium form for the most part!

I wish I could put my finger on what I'm struggling with, but I can't quite.

ETA: I do know that I struggle with episodes devoted to a couple characters and not seeing other characters for weeks at a time, though I know not everyone does. Not really related to this topic though!

Edited October 27, 2016 by mandolin

[rab01]

12 hours ago, mandolin said:

ETA: I do know that I struggle with episodes devoted to a couple characters and not seeing other characters for weeks at a time, though I know not everyone does. Not really related to this topic though!

I hear you on that. That big cast is part of why I think this show is sooo much better to binge watch than to watch once a week. For example, I remember a ton of people hating the two Abraham-centric episodes where he discovers that Eugene was lying to him because they wanted the focus to be more on the part where Rick is planning for Grady but I rewatched them this weekend and I really, really liked them (and it's the little moments with the Abe/Rosita/Tara/Glenn/Maggie group that I liked most). Or, if Glenn hadn't fallen off a dumpster, people might not be so sick of Morgan because of the timing of the cheesemaker episode.  I love y'all on this board but I am probably going to follow through on what I said at the end of last season and, now that the cliffhanger is resolved, opt out of weekly viewing.

[The Mighty Peanut]

But can the show keep Negan around as long as in the comics? I can see the value in having a long term villain thematically, but if it's three seasons of "yep, he's still an asshole", I don't know. Then again the new villain every season is problematic as well.

[Lamima]

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 0:41 PM, The Mighty Peanut said:

But can the show keep Negan around as long as in the comics? I can see the value in having a long term villain thematically, but if it's three seasons of "yep, he's still an asshole", I don't know. Then again the new villain every season is problematic as well.

The new villain every season kills me. I finished reading the last 2 volumes and as they were introducing Alpha I was feeling like 'here we go again'. They fight the bad guy, lose some people, win and rebuild a nice community and are happy when, blamo, another villain comes along. Rinse repeat. Sigh! I guess the Stephanie person that Eugine is radioing will bring the next villains along, a la Felecia on Fear.

I think viewers will be very bugged, though, to find Negan sticking around so long. And his dialoging is sooo annoying (was annoyed when reading the books). Though once he's jailed we don't see much of him. But I have a feeling the next volume will have a lot of him.

I have a question as a #nevercomicreader. I read the compendium #3 and then the 2 last volumes. Are individual comic books more wordy and detailed? I found what I read to be so....ummm....'see spot run' stupid. I feel the scenes leave out a whole lot of dialogue.

[Anela]

7 hours ago, Lamima said:

The new villain every season kills me. I finished reading the last 2 volumes and as they were introducing Alpha I was feeling like 'here we go again'. They fight the bad guy, lose some people, win and rebuild a nice community and are happy when, blamo, another villain comes along. Rinse repeat. Sigh! I guess the Stephanie person that Eugine is radioing will bring the next villains along, a la Felecia on Fear.

I think viewers will be very bugged, though, to find Negan sticking around so long. And his dialoging is sooo annoying (was annoyed when reading the books). Though once he's jailed we don't see much of him. But I have a feeling the next volume will have a lot of him.

I have a question as a #nevercomicreader. I read the compendium #3 and then the 2 last volumes. Are individual comic books more wordy and detailed? I found what I read to be so....ummm....'see spot run' stupid. I feel the scenes leave out a whole lot of dialogue.

I'd forgotten that I posted in this thread. 

Two more people got their heads bashed in on TV, this week - nobody that's been around for six years, and nobody that I was attached to, but they were definitely more effective, because they were unexpected. Also: the lack of monologues was great. Negan (and Kirkman) could take a lesson from those characters.

Shelby, and then the "real" Butcher, in AHS.

[Lamima]

Do you think Daryl will replace Dwight's story. He'll be worked over by Neagn and become a member of his group, faking it though. And then he'll help from the inside like Dwight did in the comics. And when they jail Negan, Daryl will take over leading the Sanctuary (Savior group)? I just don't know what they'll do with Daryl.

[Mu Shu]

I wish Daryl and Aaron would become a couple, not to satisfy a quota, but because I think it would be an interesting story and give Daryl purpose again.  Of course, they would have to give him a full steam cleaning and de louse treatment before they date or whatever.    Daryls character never seems to be at ease around women, and I am sick of his greasy ass moping.  But Aaron is a decent guy, so maybe not.  

[Lamima]

1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

I wish Daryl and Aaron would become a couple, not to satisfy a quota, but because I think it would be an interesting story and give Daryl purpose again.  Of course, they would have to give him a full steam cleaning and de louse treatment before they date or whatever.    Daryls character never seems to be at ease around women, and I am sick of his greasy ass moping.  But Aaron is a decent guy, so maybe not.  

On the show, who was Aaron's partner? Was it Eric? Is he still alive, I can't remember? In the comics Jesus has a partner...don't remember his name. Maybe Daryl will be Jesus' partner. I could see him as gay since he has shown no desire to women and maybe he guards his sexuality due to being from redneck background (and having the bully brother...what's his name????).

[Anela]

I remember people talking about the Whisperers. I hadn't recalled anything else, but the name stuck with me (I thought Lucille was the girl Carl met in a prison somewhere, for some reason).

Anyway, I thought I saw walkers on spikes in a preview, and there were jokes about them taking up an exercise routine. Is that these people? Or just a coincidence? 

[placate]

On 11/1/2016 at 5:57 PM, Lamima said:

On the show, who was Aaron's partner? Was it Eric?

Eric is Aaron's partner.  Comic!eric is dead, I think tv!eric is still recovering from an injury?

[Anela]

On 11/2/2016 at 4:10 AM, Anela said:

I remember people talking about the Whisperers. I hadn't recalled anything else, but the name stuck with me (I thought Lucille was the girl Carl met in a prison somewhere, for some reason).

Anyway, I thought I saw walkers on spikes in a preview, and there were jokes about them taking up an exercise routine. Is that these people? Or just a coincidence? 

Well I got my answer. Negan's fence walkers.

[mandolin]

I wonder if Daryl will take ComicDwight's place. What else can they do with him?

[Anela]

2 hours ago, mandolin said:

I wonder if Daryl will take ComicDwight's place. What else can they do with him?

I haven't read the comics, but read a few spoilers. When I saw her talking to Daryl, I wondered if they'd have them replace a story line I read with Carl and a girl (can't remember her name - I assumed that Lucille was a teenage girl, last year).

[Wryly]

4 hours ago, qtpye said:

I am accepting at this point that Negan is trying to be the ZA's answer to "What if  Fonzie and Andrew Dice Clay had a baby"?

They are trying to hard to push this supposed super villain down as awesome.  I mean we understand the obvious metaphors, but they just had to put in that line about shoving his dick down rick's throat?

I never thought I would say this...I miss the Governor.

I think the "dick down your throat" line is from the comics. Never read them, but I do remember seeing that page. Thing is, I think Negan delivers it a lot better in the comics. His vulgarity is underscored with intelligence.

Here is what comics Negan says to comics Rick:

"You? How stupid do you think I am? You're practically invincible. You're missing a fucking hand for fuck's sake -- and you're the leader. What have these people seen you live through? I bet they fucking worship you. I'm not going to turn you into a martyr. The name of the game is breaking you in front of them. I'll slide my dick down your throat and make you thank me for it... then they'll all fall in line."

Here, he seems to be explaining why he's choosing to humiliate Rick instead of killing him. But in the show, Negan just says it to be a guffawing dick.

[Timetoread]

1 hour ago, Wryly said:

I think the "dick down your throat" line is from the comics. Never read them, but I do remember seeing that page. Thing is, I think Negan delivers it a lot better in the comics. His vulgarity is underscored with intelligence.

Here is what comics Negan says to comics Rick:

"You? How stupid do you think I am? You're practically invincible. You're missing a fucking hand for fuck's sake -- and you're the leader. What have these people seen you live through? I bet they fucking worship you. I'm not going to turn you into a martyr. The name of the game is breaking you in front of them. I'll slide my dick down your throat and make you thank me for it... then they'll all fall in line."

Here, he seems to be explaining why he's choosing to humiliate Rick instead of killing him. But in the show, Negan just says it to be a guffawing dick.

It was better in the comics.  Makes perfect sense - not just break Rick for fun, break Rick to cull the rest of them.  Actual strategy.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Timetoread

[ElleMo]

1 hour ago, Wryly said:

Here is what comics Negan says to comics Rick:

"You? How stupid do you think I am? You're practically invincible. You're missing a fucking hand for fuck's sake -- and you're the leader. What have these people seen you live through? I bet they fucking worship you. I'm not going to turn you into a martyr. The name of the game is breaking you in front of them. I'll slide my dick down your throat and make you thank me for it... then they'll all fall in line."

Here, he seems to be explaining why he's choosing to humiliate Rick instead of killing him. But in the show, Negan just says it to be a guffawing dick.

3

So,  the writers take away from this scene is the oral sex part?

I would like Negan as a character if he actually said this.  All the boring stuff he has been saying, all the things from the comics, yet they leave the most important part of this passage out.   --  (In case someone comments that yes, he did say this, I will admit now that I have tuned out a lot of Negan's monologues and could have missed it. (sort of how I tune out my hubby).  And this is coming from the JDM fan)

[Rapunzel]

When they introduced Negan in the comics and he killed Glen, I quit reading the comics for a while. I found Negan insufferable and just too cartoonish with his stupid bat that, of course, he had to name.

I came back to the comics before Negan was introduced in the show, and was pleasantly surprised to see that Rick and Co. do get the better of him (Dwight does help) and that he ends up in prison. Stupid comic Carl, however, still goes on a daily basis to talk to Negan and lets him fill his head with shit. I hope none of that comes to anything, especially since Carl went off to Hilltop to learn to be a blacksmith or whatever. I'm not too current on my comic reading as I read the hardcover volumes made up of several individual issues, and I'm at least one and a half behind on those.

In any case, as much as I generally like Jeffrey Dean Morgan, I hate Negan and I wish this was an area where the show decided to deviate from the comics a bit and not killed Glen. Abraham I get, as he was on borrowed time and frankly, I wish they would have killed him as they did in the comics and not taken out poor Denise, though her fate in the comics isn't much better either.

I know they always have to have a villain, I'm just not looking for the Governor on steroids at this point and wish they could do more to make Negan even more grey rather than just this horrible villain who has to bully all the surrounding communities into giving him food and goods when, given the size of the group he has, they could easily start their own crops, ask the other communities for some animals to bread, etc. (I think his people do eventually agree to some sort of mutually beneficially arrangement after Negan is captured in the comics, if I remember right).  Of course, that would probably be just too boring so we're left with the tyrant who gives extensive, ridiculous speeches and has a bat wrapped in barbed wire named Lucille - and here I thought men always gave their penis a male name.  

I just don't know how much Negan I can take. If they don't either kill him or get him thrown in that jail cell quickly, I might have to tune out from the show. I do not want some version of  extra evil governor who far overstayed his welcome on the TV show.

[mandolin]

 I am only about 10 minutes into this last episode, but seeing that they have strayed again from the comics and I already don't care anything about what happens here, maybe Gimple should just stick to the source material.  I don't understand why he takes pages of dialogue from the comics and then some episodes are entirely made up. 

[rmontro]

There was a point last year when they seemed to make a dedicated and intentional effort to get closer to the comics.  They even set up many shots taken directly from panels and such.  But I notice that since the midseason break, they've gotten away from that more, and seem to be telling their own stories that aren't based on the comics so much.

[wrlord]

You know, I've tried to read the comics.... I've been a comic book reader and collector for 50 years. But every time I try to approach TWD, the piss-poor untrained artwork just totally turns me off.  Does anyone else have this problem?

[Ohwell]

I've never read the comics so are they still being written?  I ask because I'm wondering what the end game is for this show.  I'm getting bored. 

[Mu Shu]

i skimmed the comics.  Is Simon in them?  He's my new favorite person.

[diebartdie]

On 3/25/2017 at 5:10 PM, Ohwell said:

I've never read the comics so are they still being written?  I ask because I'm wondering what the end game is for this show.  I'm getting bored. 

Yes and where they are now, I dont see the show going there.

[Ohwell]

Thanks!

[mandolin]

22 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Yes and where they are now, I dont see the show going there.

Which part don't you see? I've only been skimming the summaries for awhile. I definitely think the whisperers have TV potential.

 

I kind of chuckle when people keep talking about how Negan is sure to be dead soon in the show.  

[diebartdie]

The whisperers yes absolutely but not the big time jump and all the settled down, having fun fairs, learning how to blacksmith stuff....I mean they can sort of do it but I guess Im thinking if they (the tv show) tried to do it it might come across as boring to most TWD viewers?

[mandolin]

Ah. But wouldn't it be cool to actually see some world building!? At least the people here often ask for it!

[diebartdie]

I would love it, Im one of those who have been clamoring for it!

[ae2]

On 3/29/2017 at 9:26 PM, diebartdie said:

The whisperers yes absolutely but not the big time jump and all the settled down, having fun fairs, learning how to blacksmith stuff....I mean they can sort of do it but I guess Im thinking if they (the tv show) tried to do it it might come across as boring to most TWD viewers?

Since nearly all of the show "plot" happens within the first, last, and mid-season episodes, they have about 12-13 episodes that would be perfect for this stuff. I expect we'll see these things happening throughout the second half of next season (with the first whisperings as the mid-season cliff hanger), or the first half of the following.

On 3/29/2017 at 9:06 PM, mandolin said:

Which part don't you see? I've only been skimming the summaries for awhile. I definitely think the whisperers have TV potential.

 

I kind of chuckle when people keep talking about how Negan is sure to be dead soon in the show.  

I could see them killing off Show-Negan. It's just harder to show the slow character arc he has on a TV show where you're paying actors to appear. And it seems he's been pretty well hated by the fan base.

I don't expect it to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does. 

[Anela]

On 3/29/2017 at 9:50 PM, mandolin said:

Ah. But wouldn't it be cool to actually see some world building!? At least the people here often ask for it!

I'm having trouble picturing fun fairs, but maybe I shouldn't be, what with the ren-faire Ezekiel and his crew. I would prefer it to the head-bashing. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by Anela

[Starving Writer]

I don't see the TV series going more than 10 seasons myself (actors aging and becoming bored, ratings dropping, etc.).  The Whispers story line seems like a good place to finish off the TV show to me.  

And I can see the show doing the "Two Years" time jump after All Out War ends.  It would at least provide *some* justification for the rapidly aging child actors (Carl, Enid, etc.) looking so much older. I  don't think the show could play out the whole "mystery" of whether Michonne was alive or not, but then again this is the same show that dragged out Glenn's dumpster fate, so who the heck knows? 

[Dobian]

They need to wrap up the series in the next couple of seasons.  This is not the comic.  The comic is a serial and runs forever or until people get tired of reading it, like Batman or Spiderman.  There is no end game in the comics.  It's like a soap opera.  TWD needs an end game.  They need to build up a new civilization out of these little communities and show humanity getting a foothold in the world again.  I'd like them to finally get to D.C. and find out that there really has been a military/government infrastructure in place, working on finding a cure and re-establishing civilization.  They've just been squirreled away and have left the rest of the world to fend for itself while they have been busy creating a NWO to unveil when ready.  There's no way they have disappeared while groups of losers like the Saviors and the Garbage Pail Kids thrive.  You know there are powerful people and organizations in the world who would see the ZA as a golden opportunity to build a new world in their image after the walkers have thinned the herd, so-to-speak.  I just don't know if Kirkman is capable of seeing the bigger picture and taking this story to the next level.

[mandolin]

So, ComicAndrea. :( I hope TVMichonne isn't taking her place that completely. 

[mandolin]

The trailer! The time jump!! Old Rick!!! I'm kind of excited! Could we have a period of respite and peace? 

I wonder what non readers will make of it. I LOVED the parallels to the pilot!  

Eta: though I lament the loss of the RickCurls

Edited July 21, 2017 by mandolin

[AimingforYoko]

Speaking of the comic:

Kirkman to end The Walking Dead.

[mandolin]

2 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Speaking of the comic:

Kirkman to end The Walking Dead.

You know, I think he's said all of those things in previous interviews. :-/

[Nashville]

9 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Speaking of the comic:

Kirkman to end The Walking Dead.

 If nothing else, that would free up the show to skate on Kirkman-free....