S07.E07: From Russia with Drugs

[johntfs]

I admit that this episode is giving me something of an inside view of why this sort of thing sucks so much and is so hard to confront and deal with.  I'm a heterosexual cisgender male who is white.  So there's that.  I'll state right now that I sympathize with and am more likely to believe Dwyer over the detective (and I don't know the character's name).  I find myself wanting to believe him and even to make excuses for him ("Even if he did do what she said, is it really all that ba-") 

I've gotten to know Dwyer over five episode and I like him.  The detective making the accusation?  I couldn't even remember her name.  I had to go to IMDB to look it up. 

Here's a question to the men and women in this thread?  Who also liked Dwyer?  Who feels maybe a sense of resentment toward the detective character who showed up to turn him into a creep?  I admit to yes on both those counts. 

While this situation takes place on a fictional show, the dynamic it illustrates is very real.  We as human beings are more likely to protect, defend and believe the people we know and like over newer people.  And women are, in a lot of cases, going to be the newer people in a lot of jobs.

[auntiemel]

The thing I really liked about the Dwyer storyline was that they chose offenses that were believable for an "old-school" guy to think was fine, not because he's a predator or a monster, but because of run-of-the-mill everyday misogyny. The two things he did were continually pester a civilian aide to go out with him, and make jokes about Novacek's bikini pics (that had been posted on social media) with his buddies.

Before the Me Too movement, there would have been disagreement over whether those were even wrong, let alone worth ruining his career over. Progress! But I can absolutely see how a guy of Dwyer's age, with the way they presented his character, would see nothing wrong with those two things.

Persistent about asking a woman out? Well, that's a compliment! Joke about bikini pics? Well, she shouldn't have posted them if she didn't want people talking! Those attitudes were widespread until not long ago, and I don't think it's a stretch to think his character would still hold them.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

Here's a question to the men and women in this thread?  Who also liked Dwyer?  Who feels maybe a sense of resentment toward the detective character who showed up to turn him into a creep?  I admit to yes on both those counts. 

Assuming this was not a rhetorical question:
I liked Dwyer. I think we were all pleasantly surprised that he didn't try to sideline Holmes and Watson.
But I have no feelings one way or the other about the female character who we saw for a couple of minutes.
I do have a sense of annoyment with the writers for not doing this better, but maybe if I rewatch in the future I will appreciate it the way it is.
But why not include her in at least one of the 4 other episodes featuring Dwyer if this was where it was going?
Maybe we'll find out that the writers got a memo to do a MeToo episode after these were all in the can.

[possibilities]

Gregson said he's been warned, though. This wasn't his first offense. And even if you came up in the dark ages, you're supposed to pay attention to the world around you. So I don't give him a pass on his behavior.

I don't feel resentment toward the detective. I've experienced it over and over again in life that most people are not monsters all the time, they have friends and allies and behaving okay in some areas, even if they're behaving badly in others.

That's the whole point. If people were 100% horrible 100% of the time, they'd never get far and would be taken out of circulation early in their careers.

[Tony Dickson]

It did seem a tad contrived, I'm guessing Novacek is going to work for Orville Redenbacher

[Magnumfangirl]

6 hours ago, johntfs said:

Who also liked Dwyer?  Who feels maybe a sense of resentment toward the detective character who showed up to turn him into a creep?

I liked Dwyer just because I thought he was funny and I was glad the show didn't do the trope of him kicking Sherlock and Joan to the curb.  As for the detective, I really didn't care about her because we never saw or heard of her before.  I was more irritated with Gregson's reaction.  It just seemed like Gregson might have been jumping to conclusions.  Someone on the reddit Elementary board pointed out that the story was sort of unrealistic because police detectives (especially the NYPD) aren't shrinking violets which of course is true.  Women who've gotten that far in a big city police department aren't intimidated by much.  This person also suggested that if the pics were too revealing or risque, she could be fired.  I don't know if that's true or not, but I can see the NYPD having some sort of military style honor code.  Whether they enforce it or not, who knows?  It's interesting that the Dwyer story got more discussion than the murder case!

[andromeda331]

Same here. I was expecting the temporary captain to throw Sherlock and Joan out, a complete ass or any of the usual stuff when shows give a temporary captain or boss. I was very pleasantly surprised that they didn't do that. He gave them a huge leeway and left the mostly alone. It was nice and so unexpected. It does stink that that he turned out to be an ass. They gave us zero signs so its hard to tell if that's suppose to be the twist, showing a nice guy who turned out to like that which is very common or tact on. It feels more tact on. We've never seen the other cop before and saw zero signs when they could have left some, and neither Joan nor Sherlock or Marcus picked up on anything. I don't hate her or resent her. I don't know her. Her story sounded depressingly realistic. 

[LisaM]

I didn't love this episode. Did not find the murder case to be particularly interesting and had no interest at all in the new detective we have never seen before. 

I did think that Gregson looked particularly healthy for someone who almost died. 

[Clanstarling]

16 hours ago, johntfs said:

I admit that this episode is giving me something of an inside view of why this sort of thing sucks so much and is so hard to confront and deal with.  I'm a heterosexual cisgender male who is white.  So there's that.  I'll state right now that I sympathize with and am more likely to believe Dwyer over the detective (and I don't know the character's name).  I find myself wanting to believe him and even to make excuses for him ("Even if he did do what she said, is it really all that ba-") 

I've gotten to know Dwyer over five episode and I like him.  The detective making the accusation?  I couldn't even remember her name.  I had to go to IMDB to look it up. 

Here's a question to the men and women in this thread?  Who also liked Dwyer?  Who feels maybe a sense of resentment toward the detective character who showed up to turn him into a creep?  I admit to yes on both those counts. 

While this situation takes place on a fictional show, the dynamic it illustrates is very real.  We as human beings are more likely to protect, defend and believe the people we know and like over newer people.  And women are, in a lot of cases, going to be the newer people in a lot of jobs.

This, with all the story line's flaws, is why I liked it. It made us re-evaluate the character we'd grown to like. Much as it happens in real life. Could it have been executed better? Absolutely. But the reactions here reflect how it often works in real life. Many times we're blind sided by these situations, even those of us who've encountered them before and tend to lean toward believing the women. If we haven't seen it ourselves, when the accusation is made toward someone we like, we tend to deflect and deny until the evidence is overwhelming.

[Loandbehold]

13 hours ago, Magnumfangirl said:

This person also suggested that if the pics were too revealing or risque, she could be fired.  I don't know if that's true or not, but I can see the NYPD having some sort of military style honor code. 

Back in the mid-90s there was police officer who posed in Playboy and was fired as a result. I do not know if that would still happen today or what the policy is regarding social media pictures. I have a feeling if you posted pics of doing lines of cocaine or shooting up heroin, you could be fired. But posting pics of yourself in a bikini? Probably not.

19 hours ago, johntfs said:

Here's a question to the men and women in this thread?  Who also liked Dwyer?  Who feels maybe a sense of resentment toward the detective character who showed up to turn him into a creep?

Another cisgender white male here. I liked Dwyer and how he only wanted the overview of what was gong on, but otherwise left Joan and Sherlock alone. And, while I thought the story was not set up well given that we'd never seen the female cop before, even if she was one of Gregson's best*, I didn't resent her for bringing the accusation. I did notice her discomfort when Dwyer called on her during the welcome back party.

* If she is such a great detective, why didn't Sherlock and Joan just ask Gregson to make her their liaison/partner for when Marcus left to go to become a US Marshal?

[dubbel zout]

If it were easy to call out harassers, we wouldn't need #MeToo.

[AnimeMania]

I guess if I was there, I would have been in the same situation as Dwyer and would be on the wrong side of the MeToo movement. If you put your photos up on social media, you put them there for people to comment on. I am sure I would have commented "Now, I know where I would like to go on vacation." Vague enough that you shouldn't get in trouble, but intriguing and funny enough that people know what you are talking about. I never understood why people put up photos that they later seem to be embarrassed by. I think my comedian nature would have overpowered my political correctness.

[Clanstarling]

12 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I guess if I was there, I would have been in the same situation as Dwyer and would be on the wrong side of the MeToo movement. If you put your photos up on social media, you put them there for people to comment on. I am sure I would have commented "Now, I know where I would like to go on vacation." Vague enough that you shouldn't get in trouble, but intriguing and funny enough that people know what you are talking about. I never understood why people put up photos that they later seem to be embarrassed by. I think my comedian nature would have overpowered my political correctness.

If I recall correctly, it was more that he shared them privately with a bunch of like minded men an made vulgar comments, which she found out about from someone else. There's nothing benign or comedic about that approach, in my opinion.

And I think the implication was that he was not one of her social media "friends", so finding her photos amounted to stalking.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Clanstarling

[possibilities]

Also, he's her boss. Not cool.

[kitmerlot1213]

The sudden appearance of a female detective we've never seen before but who is allegedly one of Gregson's best--I thought that was strictly Marcus Bell territory--was a bit jarring as was the  sexual harassment claim but what truly threw me was Gregson's casually mentioning his daughter to Joan.  The daughter a couple of seasons ago who was a crappy detective but who is suddenly now such master killer that she got away with killing a serial killer.  The same killing that the FBI was pinning on Joan.  If I was Gregson, I'd never mention my daughter in either Joan or Sherlock’s presence ever again.

And I really do not like the idea of Hannah walking around scot-free or that Gregson's okay with it.

Edited July 9, 2019 by kitmerlot1213

[ALenore]

One thing my husband pointed out about the female detective is that she is sadly mistaken if she thinks she's going to be treated any better in the private sector.  Now of course if this is all a plot, and she's going to be working for Reichenbach, then I guess that won't be a problem.

[catrice2]

1 hour ago, ALenore said:

One thing my husband pointed out about the female detective is that she is sadly mistaken if she thinks she's going to be treated any better in the private sector.  Now of course if this is all a plot, and she's going to be working for Reichenbach, then I guess that won't be a problem.

I don't think it necessarily follows that she thought it would not happen in the private sector. She herself said she was excited about the job. Most importantly, for her it was a fresh start. Might be the same thing, might not, but at least she would not have the history and complicated friendships to consider.  People don't always leave a situation because they think the next one will be better, some just do it because they are ready for some new bs...and  are tired of the same old

[possibilities]

It probably pays a lot more, too.

[Sile]

On 7/7/2019 at 1:47 PM, possibilities said:

I'm always happy for an Omar reference.

I want Sherlock, sometime later this season, to whistle as he enters a room, and explain that he's been watching The Wire DVDs.

Even better:  Whistle as he enters a room and doesn't even mention The Wire...

[MisterGlass]

I was also surprised by the B plot.  This was more subtle on the topic than some shows I've seen.  Dwyer wasn't monstrous.  I liked him.  However, a boss shouldn't objectify his or her subordinate.  He did the wrong thing, and it appears to be a pattern. 

I've known guys in his age group who make an effort to change their jokes and behavior, but slip up occasionally.  I've known others who couldn't care less, and think others are too sensitive.  I have more respect for the former because they are thinking about how they make other people feel.

[elle]

On 7/8/2019 at 6:33 PM, kitmerlot1213 said:

The sudden appearance of a female detective we've never seen before but who is allegedly one of Gregson's best--I thought that was strictly Marcus Bell territory--was a bit jarring as was the  sexual harassment claim but what truly threw me was Gregson's casually mentioning his daughter to Joan.  The daughter a couple of seasons ago who was a crappy detective but who is suddenly now such master killer that she got away with killing a serial killer.  The same killing that the FBI was pinning on Joan.  If I was Gregson, I'd never mention my daughter in either Joan or Sherlock’s presence ever again.

And I really do not like the idea of Hannah walking around scot-free or that Gregson's okay with it.

Gregson mentioning Hannah threw me for a loop too.  It was as if all of last season did not happen.

I do hope that we see a resolution to that storyline and that it is not forgotten about with Odin and his story.

[Welcome5431]

despite the twists and turns,the plot is formulaic. I called the culprit based on the time they were introduced and their relationship to the alleged victim 

[jhlipton]

On 7/5/2019 at 3:19 AM, LennieBriscoe said:

Moral of the Story: In the commission of a crime, leave your cat at home. 

On 7/5/2019 at 6:10 AM, Loandbehold said:

The cat was key. The victim had a strong cat allergy and needed to use an inhaler. So they needed to have the cat infect the apartment with its fur so the guy would go to the inhaler that they had laced w/ the drug. That was the least convoluted part of the plot for me. 

She was probably counting on the normal detectives who probably (a) wouldn't have noticed the cat hair, and (b) wouldn't have thought about it if they did.  It took even Sherlock a moment to realize why there were cat hairs in the house.

But, yeah, she should have borrowed hair from a friend's cat.

[aemom]

On 7/8/2019 at 8:33 PM, kitmerlot1213 said:

The sudden appearance of a female detective we've never seen before but who is allegedly one of Gregson's best--I thought that was strictly Marcus Bell territory--was a bit jarring as was the  sexual harassment claim but what truly threw me was Gregson's casually mentioning his daughter to Joan.  The daughter a couple of seasons ago who was a crappy detective but who is suddenly now such master killer that she got away with killing a serial killer.  The same killing that the FBI was pinning on Joan.  If I was Gregson, I'd never mention my daughter in either Joan or Sherlock’s presence ever again.

And I really do not like the idea of Hannah walking around scot-free or that Gregson's okay with it.

Thank you.  That REALLY bothered me as well.

I liked Dwyer and also liked that he would basically just roll his eyes at whatever Sherlock and Joan were up to and let them be.  I work in software development and as one of the only women, I see/hear a lot.  There are more days than not where I hear the guys say inappropriate things - never directed at me or any other woman on the team, or any woman in fact, just "inappropriate in general."  So I could see that it would be very easy for some men to cross a line with what they say.  Not only that, Dwyer is "of an age," where it was very common for women to be spoken to in a #metoo offensive manner, and we just learned to let it roll off our backs because that was the way the world worked.  So, I'm okay with all of this.  What I'm not okay with is the fact that we never saw Novacek before and we were just supposed to roll with it.  I was thinking that I had missed a portion of the "previouslies" where we had seen her before.  Unless Novacek is going to work for Reichenbach, this whole plotline makes no sense, because Gregson was back and they could has just let Dwyer go on his merry way.  I am very glad that the whole #metoo movement has gathered the legs it has, but we didn't need the show to dip its toe into that pool - enough shows have done it already and there was nothing organic about this plotline to make it believable.

Edited July 15, 2019 by aemom
Reichenbach not Rodenbach

[Ilovesherlock]

Sorry to post so long after this episode was televised.  I have only just watched it for the first time.

Why was the man who was an art restorer killed and who killed him?

[johntfs]

On 9/23/2020 at 3:42 PM, Ilovesherlock said:

Sorry to post so long after this episode was televised.  I have only just watched it for the first time.

Why was the man who was an art restorer killed and who killed him?

Well, it's been awhile since I saw it but IIRC the art restorer was killed by the person he himself killed.  The restorer and his wife concocted a plan to make money that had been in close contact with drugs seem dangerous so the DEA would give them a contract to literally launder/clean the money to make it safe to use.  Part of that plan involved the restorer going to an acquaintance who was now a criminal and getting him to steal money from a safe - money that they had tainted with a deadly poison.  In the course of robbing the safe, the acquaintance killed the restorer to keep all the money in the safe.  At which point the poison on the money killed the criminal.