S03.E02: Mary and Martha

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Quote

June helps Marthas with a dangerous task while navigating a relationship with her pious and untrustworthy new walking partner

[Armchair Critic]

Aunt Lydia lives!

[belladonna77]

2 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

Aunt Lydia lives!

I cringed when she hit June with the cattle prod, but I laughed a bit when Commander Lawrence wondered what the voltage on those things was. I'd love to know what his life was like before Gilead and what his relationship was like with his wife. 

[AnswersWanted]

Maybe it's the fact that I went into this season with low expectations, but I am actually surprised at how bad the writing has gotten. 

How are they even still in Gilead? All the obvious sneaking around, dressing up, and the new Commander's house being turned into some damn rescue hub without any real consequences or investigations? And they know that June, the notorious handmaid with a scandalous history of escape and resistance, now lives there but no one is putting two and two together?

If this so called "resistance" was supposed to improve the show, I am not buying into it at all.

It's very existence is dependent on Gilead suddenly being full of stupid, blind, shit heads who don't follow their own rules whenever it's convenient for a main character to escape something or another. 

And I admit I found it real interesting that June is now all too aware of what's at stake and how many lives can be lost to get someone out, and yet she committed that same sin herself without seeming all that torn up about it. And yes, I know, it was all for Hannah, but that excuse was never was good enough for me. How many lives is June's satisfaction supposed to be worth? She's not the only one that matters nor should she be. 

The Canada scenes also weren't working for me. Not enough Emily, I hate how they have no clue what to do with Luke, and the baby just barely gives Moira something to do besides be around. There's no attentiveness being given to their side of the story, and it's so frustrating to see all the wasted chances to grow and improve the show.

Two episodes in and I am already choleric. My humors are all out of balance, thanks show.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I totally understand Emily's fear but I was so relieved when she finally called her wife at the end of the episode. I love that Moira understood too and told Luke to STFU during dinner. That poor girl has been traumatized so maybe give her a minute to breathe!

Luke seemed reluctant to hold Nicole or spend any time with her at the beginning of the episode so I'm glad he's settling in with her.

Commander Lawrence's wife just got a lot more interesting.

[Umbelina]

I had no idea "clitoral reconstruction" was a thing.

[AnswersWanted]

24 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I had no idea "clitoral reconstruction" was a thing.

Some women aren’t born with properly formed sex organs, also women who are Trans sometimes get the surgery and have one created for them for the first time.

Also, sadly, there are some places where female “circumcising” is practiced, and has been for a very long time, and that has also created a need for the surgery to exist so that some young girls and women can regain their bodies back from the disfigurement and mutilation as much as possible.

Clitoroplasty isn’t as well known as a lot of procedures but it really should be, especially since it can help those like an Emily who have been butchered and violated beyond belief. Science is just awesome, heh. 

[ShellySelf]

I’m about 19 minutes into the second episode. When they’re in the kitchen, does June say, “alright Breaking Bad, let’s go”?? My closed captioning isn’t working but that’s what it sounded like. If so, Breaking Bad is a thing in their world? Or is that an expression used every day that I’m unaware of?

[tomsmom]

32 minutes ago, ShellySelf said:

I’m about 19 minutes into the second episode. When they’re in the kitchen, does June say, “alright Breaking Bad, let’s go”?? My closed captioning isn’t working but that’s what it sounded like. If so, Breaking Bad is a thing in their world? Or is that an expression used every day that I’m unaware of?

Lol! Yes the Martha was a high school chemistry teacher.

[poeticlicensed]

I am disappointed this season. This show seems to have lost the starkness of Atwood's writing. The thing that made the novel so good was how isolated June was, how terrifying Gilead was. The thing i dreaded the most seems to be happening, they are turning June into superhero resistance fighter. The show lacks the gut wrenching punch it had the first and second season.

Btw wasnt Emily in the colonies where women were dying of radiation poisoning? Color me surprised when she got a clean bill of health. 

[Anela]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I totally understand Emily's fear but I was so relieved when she finally called her wife at the end of the episode. I love that Moira understood too and told Luke to STFU during dinner. That poor girl has been traumatized so maybe give her a minute to breathe!

Luke seemed reluctant to hold Nicole or spend any time with her at the beginning of the episode so I'm glad he's settling in with her.

Commander Lawrence's wife just got a lot more interesting.

I'm watching it, and almost stopped when Luke was having his little fit at the dinner table. I don't know how long it's been, but he's acting like a spoiled little shit. What, is he pissed that his wife chose not to come, and taking it out on Emily? He saw all of those letters from those women, and is living with two former handmaids. She didn't risk her life to get June's baby to Canada and safety, just for him to shit all over her. 

[Anela]

Also, June's comment that they would have been taken away if it weren't for her: JFC. They tried to help HER, they risked their lives for HER, and now she's acting like she's the only one keeping them safe? 

And this commander just showed us the misogynist who helped to create Gilead. "Women like you are like children..." STFU. I'm not a fan. He helps women who amuse him. It reminds me of the guys who would wind me up, because "you're cute when you're angry". 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Anela

[kieyra]

40 minutes ago, Anela said:

I'm watching it, and almost stopped when Luke was having his little fit at the dinner table. I don't know how long it's been, but he's acting like a spoiled little shit. What, is he pissed that his wife chose not to come, and taking it out on Emily? He saw all of those letters from those women, and is living with two former handmaids. She didn't risk her life to get June's baby to Canada and safety, just for him to shit all over her. 

Not actually watching, just reading, but Luke is still being Luke and they’re letting him hang around freshly traumatized, PTSD-suffering ex-handwives ... and he’s making it all about him? 

I get that Canada’s refugee resources are stretched, but get these women a halfway house. Maybe with no dudes around for a week or two. 

Edited June 6, 2019 by kieyra

[Anela]

1 minute ago, kieyra said:

Not actually watching, just reading, but Luke is still being Luke and they’re letting him hang around freshly traumatized, PTSD-suffering ex-handwives ... and he’s making it about him? 

I get that Canada’s refugee resources are stretched, but get these women a halfway house. Maybe with no dudes around for a week or two. 

Yep. He was better by the end of the episode, but having her deal with that at all, was just terrible. 

[bmoore4026]

Well, I'm enjoying it so far.  Commander Lawrence and his wife are far more interesting than the Waterfords ever were.  And I like that June has more Marthas to work off of than just Rita.

What did June see in Luke again?  Am I supposed to like the Americans  in Exile?  I mean, Emily is whom I'm rooting for, even though that eye exam does not bode well for her.  But she got in contact with her wife.  Hopefully, they'll get back together again.  Probably not, though, because this is The Handmaid Universe.

[tennisgurl]

This is basically what I never wanted to happen to the show, June the Awesome Revolutionary. That isnt what this story should be, and while I am totally alright with a resistance being shown from time to time, or even Gilead eventually being taken down, but I dont need this to turn into full on Viva La Resistance with our hero June. One of the things that made this show so memorable was Junes terror and isolation in this terrifying alien landscape and the horribly tragedy and injustice of a small group of privileged people having total control over everyone else, while the common people are powerless and lacking in information about what is really going on. When the Martha was asking her what qualifications she had to do any of this, I had to laugh, because she literally has nothing whatsoever. Her going on spy missions and stuff makes this all seem so much more melodramatic than sorrowful or scary. Its just ridiculous at this point that this can all keep going on like this. Junes red cloak is basically plot amour, which really kills the suspense the show used to have. She was a woman who was trapped in this horrible system, but now I guess she will be the one to shoot the leader of Gilead in the head or something? Blow up his car while walking away in slow motion?

Not that I hate everything going on here. The stuff with Emily is great, even if Luke is being a petty asshole (although his wife DID choose to chill in a super Extra oppressive hellscape over seeing him again) and at least Commander Lawrence and his wife are shaking things up from the endless drama of the Waterfords. 

[Miles]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I totally understand Emily's fear but I was so relieved when she finally called her wife at the end of the episode. I love that Moira understood too and told Luke to STFU during dinner. That poor girl has been traumatized so maybe give her a minute to breathe!

I mean that was nice and all, but it didn't make much sense. Last season (or was it season one?) we found out that Canada is keeping lists of people searching for family and friends who are still stuck in Gillead and the people they want to be notified about should they ever enter Canada. That's how Luke was notfied about Moira. Moira was never asked if it was okay that he was notified. She didn't even know about it until he showed up.

So are you telling me that Emily's wife didn't put her on that list? That seems very fishy.

3 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

Btw wasnt Emily in the colonies where women were dying of radiation poisoning? Color me surprised when she got a clean bill of health. 

The writers just "kinda" forgot about that.

I mean you can survive radiation unharmed, but she should get regular cancer screenings, at short intervals, at least for the first few years. "I'll see you every two years" isn't enough.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Miles

[Sara2009]

2 hours ago, Anela said:

Also, June's comment that they would have been taken away if it weren't for her: JFC. They tried to help HER, they risked their lives for HER, and now she's acting like she's the only one keeping them safe? 

And this commander just showed us the misogynist who helped to create Gilead. "Women like you are like children..." STFU. I'm not a fan. He helps women who amuse him. It reminds me of the guys who would wind me up, because "you're cute when you're angry". 

Are we really supposed to be fans on Lawrence or just find him interesting?

I’d watch that actor do almost anything including read the phone book,though.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

51 minutes ago, Miles said:

I mean that was nice and all, but it didn't make much sense. Last season (or was it season one?) we found out that Canada is keeping lists of people searching for family and friends who are still stuck in Gillead and the people they want to be notified about should they ever enter Canada. That's how Luke was notfied about Moira. Moira was never asked if it was okay that he was notified. She didn't even know about it until he showed up.

So are you telling me that Emily's wife didn't put her on that list? That seems very fishy.

The writers just "kinda" forgot about that.

I mean you can survive radiation unharmed, but she should get regular cancer screenings, at short intervals, at least for the first few years. "I'll see you every two years" isn't enough.

Moira had no connections that she herself could claim in Canada - she was asked  so I assumed they used that list to see if there was someone on the other spectrum.

Wheres with Emily, they needn't look through that list because she had Luke and Moira as a connection. 

As to the radiation, we don't know how long she was there for and they went through the pains to show that she was taking measures to mitigate the effects it had on her. 

[Miles]

3 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Moira had no connections that she herself could claim in Canada - she was asked  so I assumed they used that list to see if there was someone on the other spectrum. 

Doesn't matter. They notified Lue when she got there, because she was on his list. They didn't ask her if they could or not. Why would that be any different here.

4 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

As to the radiation, we don't know how long she was there for and they went through the pains to show that she was taking measures to mitigate the effects it had on her. 

She was there for weeks, maybe months. She had no protective gear and that is highly irradiated soil from the fallout of multiple nuclear reactors. It's a wonder that she isn't dead already. Her mitigating the effects would have barely made any difference. It probably served mostly as something to her to do to feel in control. She should get regular screenings in short interwals. There is no way around that.

I'm pretty sure the writers actually forgot about it.

[AnswersWanted]

11 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

I am disappointed this season. This show seems to have lost the starkness of Atwood's writing. The thing that made the novel so good was how isolated June was, how terrifying Gilead was. The thing i dreaded the most seems to be happening, they are turning June into superhero resistance fighter. The show lacks the gut wrenching punch it had the first and second season.

Btw wasnt Emily in the colonies where women were dying of radiation poisoning? Color me surprised when she got a clean bill of health. 

Bravo. I agree completely. They rushed through the book way too quickly.

I don’t know who on the writing or directing team had such a huge ego they actually convinced themselves they could do a better job with the subject matter than Atwood did, but I am here to emphatically tell them that they were wrong. So damn wrong. 

Didn’t one of Emily’s teeth fall out in the colonies? I feel like I remember a scene where she reacts in horror to something like that and she hides it from the others.

Seriously, the writers once again decide their own writing isn’t worth remembering or readdressing so I guess that river cured Emily. 

No more radiation poisoning, she just needs to eat a little less butter fat...this show makes me sad now. 

[Anela]

11 hours ago, Sara2009 said:

Are we really supposed to be fans on Lawrence or just find him interesting?

I’d watch that actor do almost anything including read the phone book,though.

I don't find him interesting when he's sending away Cora, who he seemed to love and be amused by before, after she tried to help someone. Or when he's threatening them all, referring to women as demanding children.

I follow him on twitter, I watched The West Wing. I also heard that he dumped his wife over text, or a phone call. They may be well past that, and he may be a good actor, but I always remember that. I was fine with the character, until he started threatening everyone. His wife is more interesting to me. 

Emily's eyesight appeared to be going. We don't know the cause of that yet, but it's probably more than cholesterol. 

[Umbelina]

I think her eyesight is fine.  Right after that she called her wife, so I think that blurred vision had to do with memories and emotion overwhelming her.

It was pretty odd though, but that's my guess.

[Miles]

5 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

Bravo. I agree completely. They rushed through the book way too quickly.

I mean, don't get me wrong, season two was boring and this one is shaping up to be even worse, but the handmaids tale isn't an epic novel with a sprawling story and a ton of multi faceted characters. It's a realtively short book with half of it being June sitting in her room.

There wasn't more there than one season. Iff they had stretched it, season one never would have been as good as it was.

Their big mistake was not letting go of June and the waterford household after season one, half way through season two at the latest. Sadly it seems they still haven't learned their lesseon.

1 hour ago, Anela said:

I don't find him interesting when he's sending away Cora, who he seemed to love and be amused by before, after she tried to help someone. Or when he's threatening them all, referring to women as demanding children.

I also had the distinct feeling that his character changed a lot from last season, to make things more suspensfull, I guess. I'm so over the inconsistent writing.

[AnswersWanted]

1 hour ago, Miles said:

There wasn't more there than one season. Iff they had stretched it, season one never would have been as good as it was.

For me, I think they could have done more in growing the story, and Gilead, and that could have carried then through at least season 2.

The first season was almost like a paint by numbers, and it was damn effective, but I think they also got ahead of themselves and forgot about plot progression and growth because using up all of Awood's vision was so much easier.

In my eyes the book left quite a bit of the story unexplored because Atwood gave us Gilead through the eyes and perspective of Offred. And unlike June in the show, she's not some superwoman spymaster who is invincible. She's a terrified victim just trying to stay alive. So much of her story is about her, and rightfully so, but she's certainly not trying to give us an all exclusive CNN caliber report about what's really happening in Gilead and why and how.

The show could have done a lot more to show us the rest, the other parts to the story that Offred never saw, had no access to, or knew nothing about. I really thought they would be gungho to discover more, as I was, but obviously they just wanted to takeover almost immediately after season 1.

I do agree that they are way too attached to Juhe being the lead and Fred and Serena being her backup act. The snow refutes it's' own version of events about Gilead because they are all still alive, when in actuality they'd all be dead or dying by now, unless they pulled off the most amazing escape in history. 

Both June and Serena would have been shipped off to Jezebel's or the colonies, no time to waste, if not killed almost immediately,  whilst leaving Fred hanging from the wall, or worse since he was a high commander who had such a spectacular fall from grace. 

I am not a GOT fan, books or TV show, but I did admire the willingness to tell a story through death as much as life. Sometimes a death, or deaths, is the only way forward. But this creative team fails to see or accept that fact.

Now, instead of killing off necessary characters when the time comes, they're killing the show itself.

Edited June 6, 2019 by AnswersWanted

[Miles]

51 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

In my eyes the book left quite a bit of the story unexplored because Atwood gave us Gilead through the eyes and perspective of Offred. And unlike June in the show, she's not some superwoman spymaster who is invincible. She's a terrified victim just trying to stay alive. So much of her story is about her, and rightfully so, but she's certainly not trying to give us an all exclusive CNN caliber report about what's really happening in Gilead and why and how.

I think we just disagree on execution. I would leave season one as is. Simply because it established Gillead so brilliantly through the eyes of one woman who feels/is powerless in the system.

Then in season two you go and expand the world. Show us more background, show us other countries, show us the resistance, etc.

For that you either have to go away from Junes pov entirely, or you have to get her out of the waterfford house, preferably out of Gilead. Neither of which the writers did.

You know it occured to me today, it might not be the writers fault. We think of the Handmaids tale as a streaming show, but it's not a streaming show like the ones from Amazon and Netflix are. Hulu is owned by the TV Networks and on network TV the status quo is god (warning: TV tropes). I think it's entirely possible that the executives demanded that the writers not change too much and forbade them to get rid of characters. The thought came to me after Elementary just found a lazy excuse to go back to New York after two episodes in London instead of making that new and exciting venue work.

[AnswersWanted]

14 minutes ago, Miles said:

I think we just disagree on execution. I would leave season one as is. Simply because it established Gillead so brilliantly through the eyes of one woman who feels/is powerless in the system.

I think season 1 paid the ultimate tribute to the book, which was magnificent, but since this the show has became such an original work and it's not even half as good. 

I think what I really wanted was for them to keep tying the book directly into the show, no matter the season. I believe Atwood gave enough material for them to add on, but it seems they've just basically gone rogue and are now doing whatever they want, even if it goes directly against what the book was even about. That is my biggest hangup. 

I think that's why, so far, this season is reading to me like some poorly composed Fanfiction. It's more about wanting everything to work for "reasons" than actually crafting a story that works from start to finish and makes sense throughout.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a lot of executive interference, but the writers also seem to just be winging it at this point.

I blame all parties involved, aside from the actors, mostly, heh. 

[LordOfLotion]

28 minutes ago, Miles said:

I think we just disagree on execution. I would leave season one as is. Simply because it established Gillead so brilliantly through the eyes of one woman who feels/is powerless in the system.

Then in season two you go and expand the world. Show us more background, show us other countries, show us the resistance, etc.

For that you either have to go away from Junes pov entirely, or you have to get her out of the waterfford house, preferably out of Gilead. Neither of which the writers did.

You know it occured to me today, it might not be the writers fault. We think of the Handmaids tale as a streaming show, but it's not a streaming show like the ones from Amazon and Netflix are. Hulu is owned by the TV Networks and on network TV the status quo is god (warning: TV tropes). I think it's entirely possible that the executives demanded that the writers not change too much and forbade them to get rid of characters. The thought came to me after Elementary just found a lazy excuse to go back to New York after two episodes in London instead of making that new and exciting venue work.

I saw an interview with Warren Littlefield somewhere last year where he seemed very insistent that they were going to stick with telling "June's story" and not expand into the world or too much into other characters. I got the impression that he didn't like the idea of world building very much and that he was the one who had pushed to keep the narrow scope. I think it was posted somewhere here in the forum but I don't remember where it was.

[Brn2bwild]

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I think her eyesight is fine.  Right after that she called her wife, so I think that blurred vision had to do with memories and emotion overwhelming her.

It was pretty odd though, but that's my guess.

If anything, this could be the first time in a long time she's been able to see the world around her so clearly, since she wasn't allowed to wear any eyewear as a handmaid.

[kittykat]

Probably because it was Waterford free but I enjoyed this episode more than the last.  I'm still frustrated with June but even with her Martha super mission it does seem like she's finally aware that the free ride is over and Lawrence isn't just some look the other way guy.  I do want to know his wife's deal though.  She's playing some kind of long game.

And Aunt Lydia brings us this eps "what we've all been saying" moment about June.  Again I'm not exactly buying that the McKenzie incident was waved over because AL was out of commission but whatever.  I'm glad she's recognizing some consequences but again not against June.  Lawrence sent Cora away for lying (my guess is she's Colony bound) and June clearly has a strike on her now, will she learn? Sigh, probably not.  And yet I'm conflicted because I still want her to contribute to the fall of Gilead.  I appreciated that she convinced Alison to get out (or go undercover at least) because otherwise the mission would have been for nothing if only she had realized that her own staying risked the lives of dozens.

I'm glad Emily contacted her wife.  Luke needs to grow the fuck up.  He will never EVER know what those women went through and needs to learn when his opinion does not matter.  It's a poorly drawn case of male insecurity where he makes it all about him failing to protect his family and is taking it out on the wrong people. 

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, LordOfLotion said:

I saw an interview with Warren Littlefield somewhere last year where he seemed very insistent that they were going to stick with telling "June's story" and not expand into the world or too much into other characters. I got the impression that he didn't like the idea of world building very much and that he was the one who had pushed to keep the narrow scope. I think it was posted somewhere here in the forum but I don't remember where it was.

Their mistakes last season were lack of follow through, and writing endless stand alone episodes as "emmy bait" for their amazing cast.  Their continuity sucked, and they were dragging their feet to stretch this out.  Annoying and obvious.

34 minutes ago, kittykat said:

Probably because it was Waterford free but I enjoyed this episode more than the last.  I'm still frustrated with June but even with her Martha super mission it does seem like she's finally aware that the free ride is over and Lawrence isn't just some look the other way guy.  I do want to know his wife's deal though.  She's playing some kind of long game.

And Aunt Lydia brings us this eps "what we've all been saying" moment about June.  Again I'm not exactly buying that the McKenzie incident was waved over because AL was out of commission but whatever.  I'm glad she's recognizing some consequences but again not against June.  Lawrence sent Cora away for lying (my guess is she's Colony bound) and June clearly has a strike on her now, will she learn? Sigh, probably not.  And yet I'm conflicted because I still want her to contribute to the fall of Gilead.  I appreciated that she convinced Alison to get out (or go undercover at least) because otherwise the mission would have been for nothing if only she had realized that her own staying risked the lives of dozens.

I'm glad Emily contacted her wife.  Luke needs to grow the fuck up.  He will never EVER know what those women went through and needs to learn when his opinion does not matter.  It's a poorly drawn case of male insecurity where he makes it all about him failing to protect his family and is taking it out on the wrong people. 

I'm getting there with this season as well.

I DO see strong ground work for a revolution being laid, and I love that it's not "easy" and I love that it's just regular people, not super heroes, and I adore the addition of Lawrence as a character that could help or hurt them (probably depending on how much they don't bore him.)  I love his wife as well.

I still can't stand Luke, and I'm still annoyed that the Canada scenes don't include more of a world view of Gilead.  I loved Emily's story, and I'm hoping that after getting through all of the personal challenges here, that SHE becomes the voice of the resistance from outside of Gilead.  She's smart, she's got a tale to tell, and she has a debt to June.

I think (hope) I am seeing the beginnings of the downfall of Gilead.

I have NO problem whatsoever in seeing Serena become a behind the scenes force in ending this abuse of women, of every single woman in Gilead, be they wife, econowife, handmaid, Martha, Jezebel, or radiation worker.

Fred is (book spoiler, not real spoiler below)

Spoiler

overdue to die though, and frankly, that may make Serena's choices far more compelling...what happens to a wife with a disgraced commander who is executed?  I would love to know.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Umbelina

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, Brn2bwild said:

If anything, this could be the first time in a long time she's been able to see the world around her so clearly, since she wasn't allowed to wear any eyewear as a handmaid.

I was coming to say: she wore glasses, pre-Gilead. 

[kittykat]

8 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I DO see strong ground work for a revolution being laid, and I love that it's not "easy" and I love that it's just regular people, not super heroes, and I adore the addition of Lawrence as a character that could help or hurt them (probably depending on how much they don't bore him.)  I love his wife as well.

Exactly.  I am enjoying the Lawrences as characters and am glad they've changed the setting for June.  I just want to see become more savvy to the revolution's workings and learn how to cooperate with others who strive to the same ends of freedom as her.  I'm also liking Beth.

I think they are headed for Serena possibly rebelling for the wives I'm just not sure I'm sold on it yet. 

But yes feeling more optimistic about the season after this ep.

15 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Fred is (book spoiler, not real spoiler below)

  Hide contents

overdue to die though, and frankly, that may make Serena's choices far more compelling...what happens to a wife with a disgraced commander who is executed?  I would love to know.

I'm aware of this as well and hoping end of season is the possible target.  I just feel like we've exhausted both of them.

[nodorothyparker]

The pacing was odd in this one.  They seem to be skipping through the Canadian part of the story fairly quickly without any answers for specifics.  I mean, the authorities, whoever, just said sure, Luke and Moira, you take this baby you believe to be the product of your friend/wife and her ritual rapist home and raise it and we'll call it good because I can't imagine there might be any residual feelings about that, right?  Where is Emily living and what about her connection and proximity to this child that she nearly drowned for?  (Ignoring the implausibility of her wading across that river in the first place.)   How is Luke already living with two traumatized Gilead refugees and really not getting that maybe getting in the face of the one who's been free for all of 5 minutes is really not a good move?  I have no trouble believing Luke has some real feelings about the news that June should have been with Emily but deliberately chose to stay behind putting herself in real danger to try to go back for Hannah when he hasn't been able to do a damn thing for her for years sitting in safety in Canada, but like so much else, this Is. Not. About. Him.

Yeah, Emily's exposure to radiation should have at least been mentioned in the general wellness portion of things, but I don't think that was really the point of those scenes as much as how disorientingly everyday and mundane things like getting an eye exam felt after she's just come of out years of this horrible experience where Gilead didn't give a damn about her welfare at all beyond whether her reproductive organs still worked and then stopped caring about even that and left her to rot when she wouldn't play along.  It's not really even on the same plane, but I remember after living through Hurricane Katrina and then months of living in a wrecked city where basic things like grocery shopping could be just a huge damn ordeal relocating elsewhere to where daily life was going on as normal and having moments of just complete disorientation over it.  The optometrist is asking the standard "better or worse" and it's just so much bigger than that for Emily who can't even bring herself to let her wife know she made it out, but not as the same person physically or emotionally she was before.

I know I really thought last season I wanted to see resistance and rebellion rather than just more ways to inflict cruelty on people with no escape, but June's Big Martha Adventure just fell really flat for me.  So you snuck out in disguise to walk the refugee Martha to a warehouse you've never been to before and then snuck back?  And that's it?  The problem with so many of those scenes is that June is all gung-ho to be doing something that she wasn't listening to the women who have already been doing it telling her no, now is not a good time to be moving anyone.  Then they spent what felt like fully half the episode sitting around in the dark waiting to get caught.  I did have to laugh at June singlehandedly digging a grave overnight:  Have these writers even buried a family pet at any point?  Do they know how long it takes to dig a hole big enough for a body and what kind of shape you'd be in by the end if you're not used to doing that kind of manual labor?

Aunt Lydia is still heinous but at least she says what we're all thinking about June somehow still being alive at all to now be running around playing revolutionary.  I'm at least interested to see where the Lawrences really fit into to all this though.

[Umbelina]

6 minutes ago, kittykat said:

Exactly.  I am enjoying the Lawrences as characters and am glad they've changed the setting for June.  I just want to see become more savvy to the revolution's workings and learn how to cooperate with others who strive to the same ends of freedom as her.  I'm also liking Beth.

I think they are headed for Serena possibly rebelling for the wives I'm just not sure I'm sold on it yet. 

But yes feeling more optimistic about the season after this ep.

I'm aware of this as well and hoping end of season is the possible target.  I just feel like we've exhausted both of them.

I think Serena is far from exhausted as a character.  There is so much they can do with her, have her secretly aiding the revolutionaries, send her to the colonies, have her escape to Canada where she would be a very powerful voice to encourage the world to end Gilead, she could even have a baby up there, or, worst case, send her to Jezebel's for a while.

She is by far the stronger actor of the two, far more compelling.  Fred is played out though.

I think Nick "going to Chicago" to fight is going to play out as well, perhaps a huge defeat for Gilead's forces there?  He could join the rebels, or come home wounded and tell the truth to June about what's happening in the battles...it's going to have some resonance. 

[AnswersWanted]

3 hours ago, LordOfLotion said:

I saw an interview with Warren Littlefield somewhere last year where he seemed very insistent that they were going to stick with telling "June's story" and not expand into the world or too much into other characters. I got the impression that he didn't like the idea of world building very much and that he was the one who had pushed to keep the narrow scope. I think it was posted somewhere here in the forum but I don't remember where it was.

I think I recall that comment as well from an interview, it might be posted in the Media thread. 

But I think it's been obvious since season 2 began they were going heavy with the "all things revolve around June" angle, even though they were no longer following the book's established path, and nothing has changed with this season. 

June is the center of this show, even when it makes no sense and merely keeps the story stationary. She has to remain trapped in Gilead and therefore so are we. Canada is hardly of any concern, the resistance is always mentioned but never shown in depth or explored beyond Gilead's borders. What about Mexico? What's Europe got going on, or Asia, Africa? 

But alas no, no world expansions for us, just more of June being a "survivor" and turning into a handmaid Bond spy. It's like they're trying to cross over into "Alias" territory with how badly they want to make June into a "tough chick bad ass".

36 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Aunt Lydia is still heinous but at least she says what we're all thinking about June somehow still being alive at all to now be running around playing revolutionary.  I'm at least interested to see where the Lawrences really fit into to all this though.

Lawrence is one of a handful of characters left that intrigue me as well. He's everything Fred isn't, which makes sense why he was one of the originators of Gilead and its' social structures instead of just being apart of the movement, as Fred and Serena were. He really comes across as someone to be scared out of your mind of because he doesn't just think of things differently, he's intelligent enough to get shit done.

Superwoman June has long ago worn out her welcome for me, honestly I like Lawrence's Martha a lot more. Nick was dumb to pick June over her but whatever, show's gonna romance two main characters if it kills them, and me with the boredom said couple brings. 

[Umbelina]

The story IS about Gilead so of course June, who tells The Handmaid's Tale is still there.

We have plenty of characters in Canada now, they can tell the "world" story and hopefully they will.

Serena is telling the "wife" side of the story, showing that all women are oppressed in Gilead, and more than that with her, it was partly HER design, so guilt, self doubt, compliance, resistance, all of those things are part of the story.

June is telling the story of the oppressed, and now, of rising to becoming a resister, which hopefully will help end Gilead forever.

Nick is (I think) going to tell the battle of the ongoing wars between "Americans" and Gilead, and I'm seriously looking forward to that side of world expanding.

Lawrence's story?  So far, is fascinating me, everything from helping Emily escape because she is smart and worthwhile, to the way he treats his wife, to his disinterest in "the ceremony" or in sexually abusing June, or even in why he chose to help her escape at all.  He's someone who helped bring Gilead into being, and seems to be toying around with how to end it now, probably more for fun and intellectual stimulation than for any kind of philosophical or moral impetus.

It's not just June's story, but her story of an unlikely resistance fighter has potential.  The directors need to move beyond extreme close ups and let Elizabeth Moss strut her acting chops, which are significant.

It IS however Gilead's story, and always will be.  Right up until it becomes a footnote in history.

[alexvillage]

On 6/5/2019 at 8:26 PM, poeticlicensed said:

I am disappointed this season. This show seems to have lost the starkness of Atwood's writing. The thing that made the novel so good was how isolated June was, how terrifying Gilead was. The thing i dreaded the most seems to be happening, they are turning June into superhero resistance fighter. The show lacks the gut wrenching punch it had the first and second season.

Book spoiler

Spoiler

Not only that, the book is told from a far away future. Gilead was a successful oppressive place that lasted for a long time. The writers, if they have a plan at all, seem to be planning on having June be the hero of the liberation by season 10 (?), which would make Gilead the opposite of what Margaret Atwood conveyed in the book. 

June taking control of the resistance was a dick move. The Marthas have been getting people out for a while, they take June to the door to freedom, she comes back risking the whole movement, then decides she knows better than anyone?

The inconsistency of how Gilead is supposed to be - how handmaids need to not talk or even look around for example is getting more than annoying. I keep hoping that every time June is defiant she gets a swat from a guardian. Really, just to shut her up.

[alexvillage]

13 hours ago, kittykat said:

I'm glad Emily contacted her wife.  Luke needs to grow the fuck up.  He will never EVER know what those women went through and needs to learn when his opinion does not matter.  It's a poorly drawn case of male insecurity where he makes it all about him failing to protect his family and is taking it out on the wrong people. 

Yes. 

As I mentioned several times before, the writers must be all men. Why would someone not even consider a short dialogue about Luke getting drunk and on Emily's face, knowing that she just escaped a place where she was repeatedly raped, mutilated and abused? She should not be anywhere near men at this point, especially a men who is demanding answers from her because his ego is hurt. Seriously, Moira could have said something (something that had a real impact, not a platitude), or the writers could have given Emily a real PTSD moment. But know, in the best misogynistic fashion, it was all good, Emily is strong, she can take verbal abuse for a drunken man standing near her and demanding to be heard. 

[Emily Thrace]

10 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Yes. 

As I mentioned several times before, the writers must be all men. Why would someone not even consider a short dialogue about Luke getting drunk and on Emily's face, knowing that she just escaped a place where she was repeatedly raped, mutilated and abused? She should not be anywhere near men at this point, especially a men who is demanding answers from her because his ego is hurt. Seriously, Moira could have said something (something that had a real impact, not a platitude), or the writers could have given Emily a real PTSD moment. But know, in the best misogynistic fashion, it was all good, Emily is strong, she can take verbal abuse for a drunken man standing near her and demanding to be heard. 

Yeah Luke failing feels human though at least. He's still fucked up nothing that has happened to him is normal either. My heart broke for him a little when he saw that picture of Hannah last episode. I really wish the show would back down a bit on the men are assholes tick it has sometimes. In its own way the idea that women are strong and virtuous while men are are vile animals is sexist as hell.  I had hopes for Lawrence but he seems to be as much as bully as the rest. 

I wonder what the papers Luke was delivering were about. Legally in Canada and under international law Hannah is his daughter. He has proof she is alive and is essentially being kidnapped by Gilead. He could in theory file charges or sue for custody and see what happens. International custody cases are a crapshoot and Gilead could easily tell him to fuck off but it would at least shine a light on what is happening. Considering the precarious state of Gilead's economy it could actually work if Canada dangles a carrot like some kind conditional deal for food or other basics (Unofficially of course since no one ever admits to tying human lives to trade deals)  in exchange for Hannah. It would give Luke a way of fighting for his family and tie him back into the story more. It would also be a great way to expand on what the rest of the world thinks of Gilead. 

I'm not sure if Nick is done but I have always thought Nick would make a lot more sense if he was actually working for the CIA(or NSA or Homeland or whatever) the whole time. His determination to stick with Waterford would make a lot more sense if he was on orders to do so. Plus then he could go to Canada and we could have a bridge between those two stories. 

[kieyra]

This show isn’t really interested in plot, though (as far as the rest of the world, Nick having an intriguing storyline, etc). It’s not even really interested in character. It’s only interested in its highest-profile actors. 

If it was motivated by story in any real sense, at least one of the Waterfords would be dead. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by kieyra

[alexvillage]

11 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

Yeah Luke failing feels human though at least. He's still fucked up nothing that has happened to him is normal either. My heart broke for him a little when he saw that picture of Hannah last episode. I really wish the show would back down a bit on the men are assholes tick it has sometimes. In its own way the idea that women are strong and virtuous while men are are vile animals is sexist as hell.  I had hopes for Lawrence but he seems to be as much as bully as the rest. 

I wonder what the papers Luke was delivering were about. Legally in Canada and under international law Hannah is his daughter. He has proof she is alive and is essentially being kidnapped by Gilead. He could in theory file charges or sue for custody and see what happens. International custody cases are a crapshoot and Gilead could easily tell him to fuck off but it would at least shine a light on what is happening. Considering the precarious state of Gilead's economy it could actually work if Canada dangles a carrot like some kind conditional deal for food or other basics (Unofficially of course since no one ever admits to tying human lives to trade deals)  in exchange for Hannah. It would give Luke a way of fighting for his family and tie him back into the story more. It would also be a great way to expand on what the rest of the world thinks of Gilead.

I agree that Luke's reaction was human, flaws and shitty, but human. The problem is with the Canadian/expats that decided that it would be a good idea for someone who escaped the torture in the hands of man to be housed with a man.

The idea of challenging Gilead with returning Hannah makes sense but you need to remember who is writing this show. It would give a different perspective that would enrich it but then it would take precious time from the long slow motion scenes and endless close ups of June smirking. 

And in a real life analogy, there are cases of children asylum seekers who crossed the border with a parent, were separated, the children were then adopted and so far the real parents have not been able to get the children back. Yes, right here, 2018/2019. Dystopia is now the reality to many in the world.

[Anela]

That's just it, though: he can have his pain, his insecurities, and not dump it all on her. He chose to punish her, because his wife chose to stay behind. She could have got out.

Shouldn't he be in some kind of therapy, too?

[LordOfLotion]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

That's just it, though: he can have his pain, his insecurities, and not dump it all on her. He chose to punish her, because his wife chose to stay behind. She could have got out.

Shouldn't he be in some kind of therapy, too?

I'm wondering if maybe there isn't a therapist shortage in Canada. With the influx of refugees, I'm stunned that there isn't a longer waiting period for regular medical treatment, unless they've managed to streamline care somehow. Maybe if you're a refugee and you were some kind of doctor, nurse etc in the US they put you in the express lane to get certified and working in Canada when you arrive. But answers to all of that require story expansion that the writers just won't do.

[lucindabelle]

Lawrence and his wife fascinated me. My take is that while he likes Cora he perceives her as a threat to his safety- and to the safety of his wife.

whatever else is going on with him it’s clear he adores his wife.

did I dream a moment of lucidity from her?

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 6/5/2019 at 5:55 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I totally understand Emily's fear but I was so relieved when she finally called her wife at the end of the episode. I love that Moira understood too and told Luke to STFU during dinner. That poor girl has been traumatized so maybe give her a minute to breathe!

Luke seemed reluctant to hold Nicole or spend any time with her at the beginning of the episode so I'm glad he's settling in with her.

Commander Lawrence's wife just got a lot more interesting.

Luke is the worst

On 6/5/2019 at 10:08 PM, Anela said:

I'm watching it, and almost stopped when Luke was having his little fit at the dinner table. I don't know how long it's been, but he's acting like a spoiled little shit. What, is he pissed that his wife chose not to come, and taking it out on Emily? He saw all of those letters from those women, and is living with two former handmaids. She didn't risk her life to get June's baby to Canada and safety, just for him to shit all over her. 

Okay my blood is boiling thinking about how shitty Luke is 😂

So - Handmaids are forbidden from wearing contacts?  Is that true?  They're not that noticeable........ I guess, where the hell would Handmaids get them and keep them, right?? 

I have no idea what happened at Bradley Whitford's house (sorry I am terrible with character names.)  Can someone explain the plot with the woman dying?  Thank you so much.  And who was Cora and what happened to her?

Also what made Aunt Lydia get angry and tase June?  What did Aunt Lydia say to her in that moment?  Thank you

Sorry, without closed captioning, I miss so much.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[alexvillage]

3 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

Lawrence and his wife fascinated me. My take is that while he likes Cora he perceives her as a threat to his safety- and to the safety of his wife.

whatever else is going on with him it’s clear he adores his wife.

did I dream a moment of lucidity from her?

I wish we could see more of the wife. I don't know what would be her diagnosis - maybe bipolar? - but I am certain she would be sent out to die or to the wall if she were not a commander's wife. Why is she still alive? If she is not part of the whole rape ritual, because she is unreliable, why does Lawrence have handmaids, and how does he get away with it? Is he that powerful or is there something else behind this arrangement?

All questions I know we will have to keep wondering because I 100% believe the writers don't even care to speculate or to put this couple in the context of life in Gilead. Oh well. 

In any case, I want to see more of her, pretending to be "crazy" to get things done.

[Umbelina]

6 hours ago, LordOfLotion said:

I'm wondering if maybe there isn't a therapist shortage in Canada. With the influx of refugees, I'm stunned that there isn't a longer waiting period for regular medical treatment, unless they've managed to streamline care somehow. Maybe if you're a refugee and you were some kind of doctor, nurse etc in the US they put you in the express lane to get certified and working in Canada when you arrive. But answers to all of that require story expansion that the writers just won't do.

It seems like there is a special program set up to immediately see these refugees for a medical exam, which honestly, makes a great deal of sense.  Having psychological counseling available also seems like something they would do, and we already know that Moira is part of the "adjustment team" but we don't know if that is paid, or volunteer.  

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Luke is the worst

Okay my blood is boiling thinking about how shitty Luke is 😂

So - Handmaids are forbidden from wearing contacts?  Is that true?  They're not that noticeable........ I guess, where the hell would Handmaids get them and keep them, right?? 

I have no idea what happened at Bradley Whitford's house (sorry I am terrible with character names.)  Can someone explain the plot with the woman dying?  Thank you so much.  And who was Cora and what happened to her?

Also what made Aunt Lydia get angry and tase June?  What did Aunt Lydia say to her in that moment?  Thank you

Sorry, without closed captioning, I miss so much.

Click "options" at the bottom and you can have closed captioning.  Some of these actors mumble so much, or there is a problem with their sound team...I need it for some parts every single show.

Aunt Lydia (as written) blows like the wind, depending on the needs of the writer who wrote a particular episode.  She can be cruel or kind, horrifying or sane, it all depends on what one episode wants her to be.  Continuity is my biggest issue with this show, there doesn't seem to be an overall "season" just stand alone episodes that could win emmys.

Handmaids are for having babies, there is no need for them to be able to see perfectly.  I don't think we've seen a single woman wearing glasses, no matter their assigned role in Gilead.  ??

Luke is, and always has been, shitty.  I don't know if they are trying to say that even shitty people don't deserve Gilead or what, but I've never been able to stand that character.

29 minutes ago, alexvillage said:

I wish we could see more of the wife. I don't know what would be her diagnosis - maybe bipolar? - but I am certain she would be sent out to die or to the wall if she were not a commander's wife. Why is she still alive? If she is not part of the whole rape ritual, because she is unreliable, why does Lawrence have handmaids, and how does he get away with it? Is he that powerful or is there something else behind this arrangement?

All questions I know we will have to keep wondering because I 100% believe the writers don't even care to speculate or to put this couple in the context of life in Gilead. Oh well. 

In any case, I want to see more of her, pretending to be "crazy" to get things done.

I keep thinking the wife snapped because of Gilead, but so far, we don't know.  I do think we've already seen a lot of context for the Commander, a ton really.  I think more about the wife will be revealed.  She obviously detests everything about Gilead though.

[Ms Blue Jay]

19 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Handmaids are for having babies, there is no need for them to be able to see perfectly.  I don't think we've seen a single woman wearing glasses, no matter their assigned role in Gilead.  ??

What I was thinking was that some handmaids could sneak contacts, but it would probably be very complicated.

I wasn't watching this on Hulu.  I was watching this on something where captions weren't an option.

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

What I was thinking was that some handmaids could sneak contacts, but it would probably be very complicated.

I wasn't watching this on Hulu.  I was watching this on something where captions weren't an option.

How? 

They can't even sneak in hand lotion.  They steal butter when they can for that.