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Deputy Deputy CoS

S03.E01: Night

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The score in this episode was really beautiful.

Emily's storyline was the best part of the episode. I loved watching her escape. When she was offered asylum, I cried with relief. I know June is the main character (and I do hope she gets the hell out of Gilead eventually), but I was so happy to see Emily safe in Canada.

I rolled my eyes so hard at Fred acting nice toward Serena, asking her if it was okay if he went to work the next day. STFU, Fred.

Gilead society has create such fucked up family units. Seeing Fred, Serena, June, and Nick all together in one room while they talked about Nicole was mind boggling, as was June talking about her daughter with Mrs. MacKenzie.

It made me sad when June told Nick that she knows she will die in Gilead. The only thing that mattered to her was that Nicole got out and wouldn't have to grow up in Gilead.

BURN, MOTHERFUCKER, BURN.

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The first 15 minutes were so tense. I just finished Chernobyl and have been catching up on GOT, now watching this I feel like I am a glutton for punishment watching these depressing shows. But things seem to be looking up with Emily in Canada and June with Bradley Whitford's character. I hope...

With June in another house does that mean we won't see more of Nick, Serena, and Commander Waterford?

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I just can't with Nick. Sure June has made some bad choices, but to tell someone who is DROWNING in that living situation situation that she is never getting out and will die there is a jerk move. Why not give June some hope? Even if it is a lie, sometimes people need to cling to that just to get through. 

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I kinda liked it, which is to say with this show, that it didn't infuriate me.  Agree that Alexis Bledel's scenes were the best - I also teared up at Emily's being offered asylum and again when she was applauded at the hospital (despite how very cheesy that was).

And I loved "I don't like Mondays" while that beautiful old house burned.

Wish that June had lost the smirk over the hiatus, though.

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2 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

For the majority of this episode I was left with a few "why?" questions rolling around my head.

The biggest one being why are any of the Waterford's household still breathing?

They all should have been butchered and quartered by now, seriously this is Gilead ffs, they shot a helpless Martha in the street when she couldn't get her pass out fast enough.

But I am expected to believe that after all the shit that went down during the night of the "escape", the random fire outbreak, Nick holding Fred hostage, Serena losing all her shit, June being found in the home of a Commander who has her eldest daughter, and more than likely Rita would get snapped up during the inquiry as well, but the higher ups were like "meh, no biggie"?

Fred already was on thin ice thanks to the new handmaid's center being blasted sky high, and then he totally botched Gilead's potential deal with Canada, they would have had his ass loaded into a black vehicle the second his wayward handmaid had been found outside yet again, with the whole "family" tailing behind or hanging from the nearest trees.

Get the fuck out of here man, the writers refuse to acknowledge how much of a corner they wrote themselves into during season 2.

They got lazy and while some ended up being harshly punished or slaughtered, if they suddenly needed to move the plot along, then people got away with nearly everything. 

Gilead is not meant to be a forgiving society, a place where loyalty means much of anything or that anyone is above punishment, but hey, season 3 gotta season 3, right? Praise be...

If anything, June should be dead first and foremost, no questions asked. If they had just followed more closely with Atwood's design and writings this impossible streak of luck that she has would never have been necessary. 

Also, why did June save Serena? Let me guess, reasons and the show adores the actress. It's just tiring at this point. After everything that woman has done to her and her family, June should have been full on Maypole dancing a jig around that house cackling like a loon. 

Why did they cut the Luke and Moira, Emily and the baby scenes so damn short? I saw a full feature film with Serena getting dressed and setting her bed ablaze, but I didn't even get to see them touch the angel baby? Sure, show, always prioritizing the key moments.  

However I will say that the Emily scenes were the only ones that touched me. The hospital scene with accompanying applause got me fully on the feels.

Alexis is crushing it, solidly, I only wish her character could have a bigger role. My concern is that now that she's in Canada she too will be sequestered like Luke and Moira have been. 

The episode ending with the trademark June smirk was...expected. 

I decided to wait on watching this show this year.  The pre-reviews weren't encouraging, and I had a feeling this would be more of the same.

It sounds like the writers have not learned and are making the same mistakes.  One of the BIGGEST mistakes this show has had is exactly what you say here.

No consequences, no follow through, one episode sets up peril, extreme peril, and has the cliffhangers, and in the next episode, there are no real consequences, peril has inexplicably disappeared, and we just move on to the next peril. 

The individual episodes may be good, but they have almost nothing to do with the previous episode or the following episodes.  I can't care about what happens anymore, because THEY don't care about what happens next, it's all just hand waved away, with completely bullshit "reasons."  Every.  Single.  Time.

Doing that can, and has in my case, made me lose trust in the story they are telling, and lose interest.  We know NO ONE is in peril, hell Fred could fuck multiple handmaids on video tape and have it running on a loop on their state TV, and in the next episode?  We might get some comment, "whew, glad that's behind us" as they lead us to the next certain death crisis of the moment, which we now all KNOW, for sure, won't mean anything.

It's as if the episode writers never even speak to one another, they are all just stand alone episodes that have nothing to do with each other, let alone with the whole.

Fred should be long dead.

How many times has June escaped now?

Why were Canada and the World so impressed with "letters" when they have hundreds of escapees RIGHT THERE to tell their stories?

Most of the actors bring it, but it doesn't matter in the end, nothing matters in the end, because the writing is slapdash without continuity or sense.

Very sad.

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I've already written about the best part, now the worst part for me

When went back to the Waterford's home. She is confronted by an entitled child thief for stealing her child and after screaming into her face all the reasons why June did what she did, including reminders of Serena's own abuse. June comforts Serena.

What in holy fuck are the writers thinking with scenes like these? I just don't get the creative decisions behind the Serena Joy/June interactions. Using June of all people as a conduit of sympathy for Serena Joy is the single worst decision any writers could make. They are so tone death that they have June comfort Serena right after she reminds of the viewers off all the inhumane way she treated June.

As long as June and Hannah are in Gilead, Serena Joy's past action continues to rub them off their freedom. This is not up for debate yet I feel like the show wants me to overlook it. 

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On 6/5/2019 at 9:33 AM, belladonna77 said:

I just can't with Nick. Sure June has made some bad choices, but to tell someone who is DROWNING in that living situation situation that she is never getting out and will die there is a jerk move. Why not give June some hope? Even if it is a lie, sometimes people need to cling to that just to get through. 

He gave her more than hope. He along with many others put their necks on the line to get her out of her “drowning” situation and she walks back in like a Batman. 

She  no longer deserve any regard from any of those people

Edited by Deputy Deputy CoS
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If this whole episode was just Nick and Martha yelling at June for being a dumbass, I would have been quite satisfied. I mean, she didnt leave to go to Canada with her baby to be with her husband and her infant because...she wanted to talk to her daughter while she was sleeping? Then give up instantly? I know it would be awful to leave Hannah, but its not like she can rescue her right freaking NOW, all she could do is try to help abroad, where she actually could have some power. All those people risked their lives for her, she then she just goes back? If this show wasnt terrified of showing actual consequences for the main cast, they would have figured out what happened and Nick and Martha would be dead on the wall or dying in a radiation field right now, and June would have taken that sacrifice and shoved it. Its great that she got the baby out at least. They really have hurt the supposed horrible danger everyone is in when no one actually suffers anything other than June getting some lashing and put on cleaning duty for a day. Bad things can happen to the minor and supporting cast, but June and the Waterford household can always walk it off. 

I loved every scene with Emily at least, and I hope that we get some good scenes of her in Little America, and that she is reunited with her wife and child. I felt so much relief when she accepted asylum in Canada, I was almost crying along with her. The applause was a nice moment and it was amazing seeing people being kind to the poor woman, but it was also kind of awkward just having everyone gawking at her. Maybe have everyone give her kudos after she has gotten a few days? Changed out of the god awful outfit?

The shot of the bed burning was really lovely, but I think this show could do with a few less slow motion shots, its getting pretty self congratulatory at this point. I would have rather spent more time with Emily than watching Serena cry in slow motion more. Generally, I dont get why they have decided to make Serena all tragic and supposedly sympathetic, with June hugging her and comforting her and us supposed to be all like "oh poor Serena" like oh please. Serena isnt even just quietly complacent or just going along with this, she was right there with her husband when they were planning to assassinate congress and start all of this! From day one! Yeah it sucks that this all backfired on her, but I dont feel all teary eyed for her, especially when she only seems to feel bad about all of this when it affects HER and HER not baby.

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4 hours ago, rubinia said:

I appreciated Nick's anger in that scene. He said what a lot of us were thinking--people risked their lives to get you out, and you didn't take the chance. You left your infant daughter in the arms of another handmaid that you knew had a treacherous journey ahead, with NO FOOD, and turned your back on them so that what? You could get captured AGAIN? I'm so over June. 

I wish Serena had jumped onto the burning bed.

I am glad Emily and the baby made it to Canada. What I hated was them bringing her in the front door and people applauding. What a violation of privacy.

June has another child in Gilead. Why wouldn't she make sure that Hannah got out too? I feel it's more heroic to stay until everyone is out. 

37 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

He gave her more than hope. He along with many others out their necks on the line to get her out of her “drowning” situation and she walks back in like a Batman. 

She  no longer deserve any regard from any of those people

Is June just supposed to leave Hannah behind? 

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12 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

If this whole episode was just Nick and Martha yelling at June for being a dumbass, I would have been quite satisfied.

Preach. 

June's behavior in this episode was like all of season 2 but with even more stupidity and selfishness combined. 

It made shit all sense for her to stay for Hannah, her quest ended before it even started. The kid didn't even wake up! After all she did once they captured her again, she rightfully should've ended up on the wall before the episode was even over. 

If the show had any guise of plot direction left, they should have had Lawrence pick her up, refuse to take her fugitive ass to see Hannah, rendering her helpless as she ended up being, and instead he could have taken her to another safe house to smuggle her out of Gilead to a resistence strong hold.

That way they could keep June at least close enough to Gilead to engage when possible, but she also wouldn't be strutting around as a Handmaid still despite everything she's done which should have her hanging from a rope or worse. 

This show, imho, dropped the ball before they even started running with it this season. The bullshit is coming from all sides now. 

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23 minutes ago, belladonna77 said:

June has another child in Gilead. Why wouldn't she make sure that Hannah got out too? I feel it's more heroic to stay until everyone is out. 

Is June just supposed to leave Hannah behind? 

I could have bought that story.

Unfortunately, because of the complete lack of consequences or even the barest minimum of resolve of other stories (June giving birth to Holly at that house, with Serena and the Fred present, but hey, NOTHING CAME OF IT! for just one of many, many, many examples) it's too easy to see it for what it really is.

A delaying tactic to keep June in Gilead for as many seasons as possible.

When you lose trust in the writers, it's hard to get it back.  This, to me anyway, was their last chance to earn that trust back.  To care about logic and continuity, instead of creating a cartoon like 'perils of Pauline" serial cartoon show.

You can't keep setting up DANGER WILL ROBINSON! all the time and never have believable pay offs, and expect people to stay on your ride.  Nothing came of the Canada fiasco, nothing really came of the Handmaid blowing all the people up. 

I think the reason many like Serena and Emily is that they actually pay the prices for their actions.  There is at least, a bit of "pay off" there.  Peril actually meant something with them.

Fred, Serena, and June are bullet proof though, no matter what, so putting them in peril (which is these writers favorite thing to do) means absolutely nothing.  No matter how complicated?  They will be fine, and we will never even know how they got out of it.

Hannah is simply a plot device now, it's quite obviously, and in a super anvil clunky way, how they can keep June in Gilead.

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2 hours ago, belladonna77 said:

Is June just supposed to leave Hannah behind? 

She can do whatever but she can’t expect any regard from the people who put their necks on the line for her. 

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8 hours ago, belladonna77 said:

I just can't with Nick. Sure June has made some bad choices, but to tell someone who is DROWNING in that living situation situation that she is never getting out and will die there is a jerk move. Why not give June some hope? Even if it is a lie, sometimes people need to cling to that just to get through. 

I have to disagree.  While I'm not a major Nick fan he let June deservedly have a much needed dressing down.  Her so-called "defiances" have hurt and gotten others killed and while she may have new friends in high places she lost Rita and Nick who are understandably pissed with her.

That said Emily's escape was beautifully done.  When given good material, Alexis has proven herself well.  Although I have a very bad feeling her wife and son are NOT in Canada.

Definitely a slow burn but I'm looking forward to what they'll do with June and Lawrence.  Although I'm getting rather sick of June's plot armor.  I think this show should go to more of an ensemble piece kind of like they did with Orange is the New Black.  The show has outgrown June but now it seems like she'll be more in our face ever.

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Fred, Serena, and June are bullet proof though, no matter what, so putting them in peril (which is these writers favorite thing to do) means absolutely nothing.  No matter how complicated?  They will be fine, and we will never even know how they got out of it.

Seriously.  They are literally hand waving her trying to get Hannah where other handmaids would have ended up on the wall.  And I have a very bad feeling that they're setting up this season as the Redemption of Serena Joy and I am NOT for it.  She was instrumental in the foundation of Gilead, YOU DO NOT COME BACK FROM THAT!

2 hours ago, belladonna77 said:
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There are some significant good things in this episode (yes, I gave in and subscribed again, for now.)

I loved Emily's entire story so far, just beautifully done, and  I could buy the applause for survivors and escapers.

I liked the scene with Hannah's new mother very much.  I'm not sure where they will go with this, but Hannah does seem to be with caring people.  Wasn't last season about her being mistreated or beaten or something though?  This show is whiplash. 

I also love that at long last, June is not living with Serena and Fred, and at least the new guys isn't boring.

I still don't give a shit about Luke, and I am caring less about Nick all the time.  I'm still bored with the lack of activity in Canada about protesting, and failing to use Canada as a window into the rest of the world and their reactions to Gilead.  I still wish they would make up their damn minds about Aunt Lydia, she blows with the wind (or storyline of the moment.)  I am sad they haven't added more logic to June's scenes, but Elizabeth Moss is doing the best with the crap they have given her.

I don't mind Serena's story, I can believe that people make horrid mistakes, especially when religion is involved, and power, but I also can believe in change, not all at once, but slowly, a step at a time. 

On to episode two.

Edited by Umbelina
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I think once they lost the core material they didn’t know where to go. Perhaps they shouldn’t have burned thru it so fast. 

They seem so concerned with keeping the main cast front and center that they have become Teflon. None of the world building they did in season 1 is holding water here. June would have surely lost an eye or a hand or something. Serena Joy is not sympathetic, stop trying to force it. Yawn yawn yawn.

It would have been WAY more  interesting for June to escape and then lead a political backlash against Giliad to bring their government down and get her daughter back that way. We could get into the world building of Canada, change the scenery from this drab slow motion 80’s video montage they seem to have become so fond of and totally flip the show upside down. Outside of Giliad is where she could have gotten some real power and come up against the weasel Commander and bitch Serena Joy on equal footing. That would have been badass. But nope, just more foot lashings and slo mo pained looks and characters literally going around in circles. This show has become the Road Runner where he just he just chases Wile E Coyote around ep after ep and no one ever gets anywhere.Yawn. 

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"Mama's got to go to work." was far more impactful when Jennifer Garner (Sydney Bristow) said it on Alias. 

Having June say it took me right out of the episode, their delivery of that line was nearly identical too.

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28 minutes ago, sadie said:

I think once they lost the core material they didn’t know where to go. Perhaps they shouldn’t have burned thru it so fast. 

They seem so concerned with keeping the main cast front and center that they have become Teflon. None of the world building they did in season 1 is holding water here. June would have surely lost an eye or a hand or something. Serena Joy is not sympathetic, stop trying to force it. Yawn yawn yawn.

 

Exactly.  They needed to move the story along and out of the waterfords house, maybe even out of June's viewpoint last season.
I get that they love their actors but sometimes you need to kill your main actors for the series. 

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25 minutes ago, meatball77 said:

Exactly.  They needed to move the story along and out of the waterfords house, maybe even out of June's viewpoint last season.
I get that they love their actors but sometimes you need to kill your main actors for the series. 

Agreed.  The world has outgrown June and the Waterfords.  I wish we'd get some new faces and POVs or at least expand the roles of current handmaid's and make it more an ensemble.  Something where maybe someone is in coordination with Canada and expand that story further.

My frustration with June and the smirking is that it's clear she's learned nothing.  The show her at the red center defeated and looking remorseful until the Deus ex handmaid tells her Emily and Nicole are safe then she immediately gets posted to Lawrence and it's like oh nevermind I'm the greatest rebel ever.  Why are the other handmaids even still helping her? How does she get posted again so soon when there are many others?   I know handmaids that have given birth are in demand but she as the red center what? Two days?  A week? The writing is all over the place.  I'm guessing Lawrence specifically requested her.  Again how convenient

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I watched this episode because of Emily (and started to cry when she realized that she was being treated like a human being). 

At least they seem to have got the message that the torture porn was a huge turn-off. I haven't watched the rest of it, though, so I don't know if they will keep that off camera. I'll keep checking threads first.

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I'm watching these one episode at a time because frankly this just isn't a bingeable show for me.   

I don't hate this one, but I do hate how sloppy some of it feels and how many loose threads are sticking out.  The biggest one of course being WTF are they doing just blithely bringing June back to the Waterford house?  Absolute best case scenario that they don't know she was a willing participant in helping Emily and the baby escape, the powers that be still know she broke into the Mackenzies' house where her other child is.  It would have made so much more sense and been truer to the source material to immediately take her back to the Red Center to mete out whatever punishment and only then remind her that they're sparing her this one last time because she's recently proven to still have a working womb.  But I realize to go that route the show would lose the scene of June yelling at Serena about having Hannah stolen (Which I also didn't completely hate if you buy that Serena really did believe that Nichole was hers and that's where June is trying to meet her.) and the rest of the cast basically calling June a selfish dumbass for wasting their efforts, as well as Serena's big burn it all down in her despair only to be saved by June moment.

I've loved Yvonne Strahovski in this role a lot and think she's gone above board in making a terrible monster of a character compelling to watch, but I can't help but feel like she should have died in that fire.  Keeping her around with June out of the Waterford house means the show will have to find increasingly contrived ways to keep her on the canvas.  Waterford is just completely played out too beyond maybe making an occasional background appearance now and then as the story moves on, although I did love that his primary concern in all this is that now they're all going to have to lie their asses off and cover for each other so they all don't end up on the Wall.  Because if OfGlen 2.0's entire household was wiped out for her bombing the Red Center, it feels like a no-brainer that all the members of the Waterford house shouldn't all get to just drive away after all the successive rounds of ridiculousness and ineptitude that have gone on there.  Just how many "kidnappings" have to take place in one house before the authorities start to think there's obviously something else going on there?

Emily's escape was gorgeously done and Alexis Bleidal was doing nice work in showing just how completely shell shocked she was.  You have to wonder how often Canadian hospital staffs get to see an obviously traumatized handmaid with baby in tow walk through their doors the way they were gawking at and applauding her.  I really wish the scene hadn't cut away after Emily told Luke and Moira that June saved her life because I wanted to see her tell them who the baby is and that June willingly stayed behind to try to get to Hannah.

June's talk with Hannah's new "mother" was oddly compelling and made a certain amount of sense if you've totally bought into the status quo of Gilead as fixed and unchangeable, as she obviously has since she gets to wear the teal dress and keep someone else's child.  It's actually much more interesting to me that she doesn't come across as a total monster but as someone who does believe she loves her new "daughter" and is trying to protect her.

Yay Bradley Whitford.

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I'm in total agreement that June returning to "save" Hannah, but instead setting herself up for immediate capture, was immensely stupid from a character aspect.  Same with the whole scene at the Waterfords, the fact they all weren't shot, and the supposedly symbolic burning down the house scene.  (Seriously, Serena must be made of asbestos to be standing so close to a raging fire and not get burned or die of smoke inhalation.)  I was really hoping Fred would have died in the fire, in his precious den.  I actually thought the close up of the door would have shown it nailed shut from the outside.  So yes, other than the amazing scenes with Alexis, this episode was a huge disappointment.

But... I'm willing to hand waive all that away because it was required to set everything up for the plot to move forward.  June had to come back, or no season 3.  She had to have a reason to leave the Waterford's, or no season 3.  Serena needs to "evolve", or the character is useless.  And I guess Fred has to live on as the protagonist.  Nick can go now, though.  But please keep Rita in the story line.  And I'm looking forward to Comm. Lawrence, just because he's such a wild card. 

I'd like to see more of the wives start to slowly turn against the whole Gilead structure, after seeing what happened to Serena.  Seems Mrs. McKenzie would be up for that.

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1 hour ago, chaifan said:

But... I'm willing to hand waive all that away because it was required to set everything up for the plot to move forward.  June had to come back, or no season 3.  She had to have a reason to leave the Waterford's, or no season 3.  Serena needs to "evolve", or the character is useless.  And I guess Fred has to live on as the protagonist.  Nick can go now, though.  But please keep Rita in the story line.  And I'm looking forward to Comm. Lawrence, just because he's such a wild card. 

I think a lot of other people have pointed out where this season could have gone, had June not have been colossaly stupid and it would have been in a much better direction. We have seen the giledian torture porn for one seasons too many already. We need to get out in the world. See the greater political landscape, see the resistance, etc.

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You all make great points so I'll only comment on the stupid stuff I noticed. 

First, a river of that size and flow and as icy as they portrayed the weather would not have permitted  Emily and a virtual newborn to cross it and survive like that. It was beautifully filmed but it was still bullshit.

The slow reaction time to a fire that far gone was also bullshit. Serena and June should have been overcome by the time the flames and smoke were that far gone. But no, they calmly walk out like it's barely a big deal.

And I am embarrassed to note that I totally missed the lack of words on anything until this episode. The bottle
Serena was using to disinfect her wound had picture explanations for its usage instead of directions. Then I realized that none of the packages and bottles and cans at the store have any words on them either. Women are seriously not supposed to be able to read even labels in that society. No reading is absolute. Jesus.

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8 hours ago, Miles said:

Why was Emily stumbling through the woods alone with a baby? They had no actual plan for her to get into Canada? What kind of shitty underground railroad is this?

I snorted at this. Honestly, Emily and that baby should and would have drowned, full stop, there was no getting across that river without help.

They could have at least provided a boat or dingy, something that pulled up to get her and ferry her across to safety. 

Now that I think about it, Emily’s miraculous crossing really sums up the show’s direction for this season nicely.

”Forget what should be possible or probable or logical, we’re just going to write stuff and call it good, okay? Okay, awesome, thanks. Remember how much you liked the magic wolf? Well you haven’t seen anything yet...”. 

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On 6/5/2019 at 11:06 AM, AnswersWanted said:

If they had just followed more closely with Atwood's design and writings this impossible streak of luck that she has would never have been necessary. 

I love your whole post and observations but this is what it all boils to. To use the Gilead analogy, they raped the original idea while TPTB held it on a bed. I will watch the season and then hope it burns down, faster than that bed and house, only that I hope no ideas coming from the writers survives. 

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On 6/5/2019 at 1:57 PM, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I've already written about the best part, now the worst part for me

When went back to the Waterford's home. She is confronted by an entitled child thief for stealing her child and after screaming into her face all the reasons why June did what she did, including reminders of Serena's own abuse. June comforts Serena.

What in holy fuck are the writers thinking with scenes like these? I just don't get the creative decisions behind the Serena Joy/June interactions. Using June of all people as a conduit of sympathy for Serena Joy is the single worst decision any writers could make. They are so tone death that they have June comfort Serena right after she reminds of the viewers off all the inhumane way she treated June.

As long as June and Hannah are in Gilead, Serena Joy's past action continues to rub them off their freedom. This is not up for debate yet I feel like the show wants me to overlook it. 

I think they’re trying to show that Serena and June are both victims?  I don’t understand why they tortured June.  Did they blame her for the fire?  

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32 minutes ago, Lemons said:

I think they’re trying to show that Serena and June are both victims?  I don’t understand why they tortured June.  Did they blame her for the fire?  

The show is definitely trying to sell the "but Serena hurts too" angle really hard right now. It's ridiculous, imo and unwarranted. 

And they punished June for being found at Hannah's new home. 

Apparently caned feet is all a repeat offender Handmaid gets in Gilead, but only if her name is June of course. Never mind the women who have their hands nearly roasted off or eyes removed just because they disobeyed an Aunt and showed defiance. 

Edited by AnswersWanted
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31 minutes ago, Lemons said:

I think they’re trying to show that Serena and June are both victims?  I don’t understand why they tortured June.  Did they blame her for the fire?  

June's punishment was for being at the MacKenzie's house to see Hannah.  The Aunt said something like "The MacKenzie's forgave you, but God hasn't" or something along those lines.  I'm not sure how they explained her presence there to avoid much more serious punishment (colonies/death).  In my mind the excuse was that June was so distraught over the kidnapping of Nicole that she ran to the MacKenzie's to make sure Hannah was safe.  There's lots of handwaiving to be done.

And, yes, I think they're trying to show that Serena is also a victim, but one of her own making. 

ETA:  @AnswersWanted, we must have been typing at the same time and psychically linked! 

Edited by chaifan
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28 minutes ago, Lemons said:

I think they’re trying to show that Serena and June are both victims?  I don’t understand why they tortured June.  Did they blame her for the fire?  

They might be but Serena is a victim of herself, she set this world up - she wanted it and now doesn’t like it, June is the true victim as this was forced on her. Serena was fine UNTIL it affected HER negatively, that makes her evil and selfish, she didn’t care about the other women while she was above them. For that reason I will never feel the sympathy they want me to feel for her and this is where, IMO, they are failing in their storytelling 

i think they tortured June for breaking into the other commanders house to stare at her daughter. But I’m only guessing. 

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3 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

The show is definitely trying to sell the "but Serena hurts too" angle really hard right now. It's ridiculous, imo and unwarranted. 

And they punished June for being found at Hannah's new home. 

Apparently caned feet is all a repeat offender Handmaid gets in Gilead, but only if her name is June of course. Never mind the women who have their hands nearly roasted off or eyes removed just because they disobeyed an Auny and showed defiance. 

I think they’re setting up Serena for doing something heroic. 

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2 minutes ago, chaifan said:

ETA:  @AnswersWanted, we must have been typing at the same time and psychically linked! 

*Sends you a mental high five* I love it, heh. 

2 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I love your whole post and observations but this is what it all boils to. To use the Gilead analogy, they raped the original idea while TPTB held it on a bed. I will watch the season and then hope it burns down, faster than that bed and house, only that I hope no ideas coming from the writers survives. 

Love this too, could not agree more. I think of what could have been and then look at what currently is and it truly leaves me flabbergasted. 

Apparently the writers like slow burning fires everyone can escape with plenty of time to waste just looking around and enjoying the inferno engulfed scenery and the like. 

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1 minute ago, Lemons said:

I think they’re setting up Serena for doing something heroic. 

Well, Serena already did something heroic - it's clear she was at least in part responsible for getting Nicole out of Gilead.  And, by extension, also attempting to get June out. 

I love Serena as a character - there are a lot of layers there.  I believe the writers know what they're doing with her and are intentionally making viewers question their anti-Gilead loyalty by making her so evil, yet have glimpses of humanity.  No one wants to feel sorry for Serena, to be on her side in any way, but the writers keep nudging in that direction, then will pull back by having her be evil Serena in the next shot.  Personally, I love it.  Same reason I really like Comm. Lawrence (for now).  I wish June had 1/2 as much depth as a character.

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Serena told us in that hellacious screaming fight at the country house last season where her head is in this when she was yelling at Fred that "I have nothing, you've left me with nothing" to aspire to but a baby someone else was going to birth "for her."  Sure, she's as complicit as hell in creating the disaster that is Gilead but it ultimately cost her everything that made her her to end up wearing identical teal dresses missing a finger and playing hateful hausfrau, and now the baby that she told herself would at least be her consolidation prize and she gave up a chance at amnesty for is gone too.  Those of us out here in the sane world know how messed up her thinking is, that she was basically a kidnapper playing mommy, but that's her starting point and where June was trying to reach her.  Calling her a baby snatching bitch isn't likely to get her to listen or make her at all sympathetic to June's plight, but appealing to her as one mother to another just might make her finally see June's pain.  Besides, she just pissed off Rita and Nick.  Who else does she have?

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53 minutes ago, Lemons said:

I think they’re setting up Serena for doing something heroic. 

I put nothing past these writers. Serena is still alive when all evidence over the past two seasons implies that she'd be lucky for a quick death that ends her suffering sooner than later. 

I so wish she had just pitched forward onto that bed and gotten it over with. Serena is the type of character that a GOT sort of show wouldn't hesitate to kill off when it's obvious that her usefulness has run out. 

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2 hours ago, Lemons said:

I think they’re setting up Serena for doing something heroic. 

As the next post says, she already did.  She let her much wanted baby go someplace so that she could be free, learn to read, have a real life. 

I think she will rather reluctantly at first get involved with the revolution.  She used to be a powerful woman, and she could eventually be a powerful force to take down Gilead as well.  Baby steps.

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

Well, Serena already did something heroic - it's clear she was at least in part responsible for getting Nicole out of Gilead.  And, by extension, also attempting to get June out. 

I love Serena as a character - there are a lot of layers there.  I believe the writers know what they're doing with her and are intentionally making viewers question their anti-Gilead loyalty by making her so evil, yet have glimpses of humanity.  No one wants to feel sorry for Serena, to be on her side in any way, but the writers keep nudging in that direction, then will pull back by having her be evil Serena in the next shot.  Personally, I love it.  Same reason I really like Comm. Lawrence (for now).  I wish June had 1/2 as much depth as a character.

I agree.  I'm actually fully on board with a couple of these stories now, especially Serena's. 

IF they are building to the revolution, which I think/hope they are?  There is a role for Serena in that, and for June.

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Serena told us in that hellacious screaming fight at the country house last season where her head is in this when she was yelling at Fred that "I have nothing, you've left me with nothing" to aspire to but a baby someone else was going to birth "for her."  Sure, she's as complicit as hell in creating the disaster that is Gilead but it ultimately cost her everything that made her her to end up wearing identical teal dresses missing a finger and playing hateful hausfrau, and now the baby that she told herself would at least be her consolidation prize and she gave up a chance at amnesty for is gone too.  Those of us out here in the sane world know how messed up her thinking is, that she was basically a kidnapper playing mommy, but that's her starting point and where June was trying to reach her.  Calling her a baby snatching bitch isn't likely to get her to listen or make her at all sympathetic to June's plight, but appealing to her as one mother to another just might make her finally see June's pain.  Besides, she just pissed off Rita and Nick.  Who else does she have?

Yes, June has handled Serena very very well, and I honestly loved their bond last season when June was editing for Serena.

They could become a powerful force together, and I hope that's where it's going.

1 hour ago, AnswersWanted said:

I put nothing past these writers. Serena is still alive when all evidence over the past two seasons implies that she'd be lucky for a quick death that ends her suffering sooner than later. 

I so wish she had just pitched forward onto that bed and gotten it over with. Serena is the type of character that a GOT sort of show wouldn't hesitate to kill off when it's obvious that her usefulness has run out. 

Serena is alive because her husband had power and they told good lies.

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46 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Serena is alive because her husband had power and they told good lies.

Serena already lost a finger for her disobedience and heretic acts, Fred has recently proven to be a miserable failure at his job, both with the center and the Canada fallout, and then suddenly their handmaid escaped yet again, one of the most unforgiveable offenses in Gilead for a commander. 

One handmaid already killed herself in his home, and his track record with June is pitiful as well since he can't monitor and control her to save his life, literally. 

It's inconceivable to me how those two are still members of Gilead high society, or still alive. We've already seen other commanders and wives guilty of far less and what happened to them. Saving the Waterford's is solely plot driven, imho, nothing more. 

Serena lives, as does Fred, because the writers make it so. Nothing about she or Fred or whatever power they might have had should have spared them Gilead's wrath by now. 

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I agree with the lack of follow up on the "extreme peril" Fred, June, and Serena stories keep showing, and then hand wave away.

However, this last one was better, they coordinated on the lies to be told, lies hard to disprove with June, Fred, Serena, and Nick backing them up.

I do think Fred being demoted is only the first step, but anything at all could happen to Serena (and be believable) if, for example, he is killed off.  In the books

Spoiler

of course, he is executed, and soon, but we don't know exactly why, and we know nothing about what becomes of Serena. 

I think they are building to that.

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I think more than the show itself, the discourse will turn me off this show.

How is that we are told a story in which a woman is separated from her child and husband, enslaved and passed along to be raped for years for the sole purpose of procreating for her rapists. In the Waterford's household, the nightmare takes another form and the woman does get pregnant. The child is literally raped out of her and instantly taken away. The only contact allowed as a nurse maid

An opportunity arose for her to escape  with the help of friends,  the woman begged the thankfully dragged out Rapist and baby thief who was trying stop them. Thief eventually relents. 

BUT THAT IS HEORIC? 

She should be given credit for allowing her captures to go?

Hi Pence!

Edited by Deputy Deputy CoS
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I just have a hard time believing that Gilead would believe them because June was recaptured, they hauled her out of the other Commander's house, thereby showing once again they'd lost her and she'd managed to escape and run off. 

If Gilead was seemingly the land of second chances, I might find it a bit easier to swallow. But as I said, the Waterford's have a very well established history of fuckups and yet nothing happens to them.

By now something would have, something big if only to make an example out of then, at least it would if the show was following its' own formula, but clearly they want these characters sticking around and they intend to write however they must, and as illogically, to do so.

That show just wants me to be okay these characters are still here without any real explanations or reasons aside from the fact they're the leads and that's good enough, it's just not for me. 

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So, I ended up skimming a lot of the episode. It turns out that you can skip ahead a full minute and miss nothing of importance! That's how often they used the long, dragged out closeups. Seriously, at least three full minutes of one scene was completely silent because this show loves its close-ups on faces for long periods of time. 

I definitely don't have the same feelings about this show as I did in season 1, but mostly because this show is extremely static in many ways. It keeps pulling the same cards over and over again and nothing actually changes. It all feels very pointless and bleak to me.

Emily's stuff is obviously the best. Much like Moira's escape last season, Emily's escape was great because something actually changed. Plus, they allowed this escape to be different from Moira's, which is important. 

I love Yvonne and I don't mind Serena (I love how complex she is), but I agree that the whole Waterford household has lived out its usefulness. It's completely unbelievable for them to get away with their handmaiden escaping AGAIN and losing their child. Even if they came up with a good cover story, there's no way the society wouldn't punish the entire household for letting it happen. Serena and Fred should, theoretically, be put on the Wall, no matter what. Plus, I'm not too sure I love the idea of Serena being redeemed when she inevitably switches sides and fights with June to destroy Gilead. I can only accept it if Serena accepts that she must face severe consequences to her actions. No way am I on board with a series finale where Serena gets to go free, and that is the fear that I have.

At least, if Serena and Fred had died, June could have been moved to Joseph's home and we could have had a different story without the worry of the Waterfords appearing and messing things up. They could have also brought on some new Commanders as well. 

I did like June's conversation with the wife raising Hannah. I thought it was nice to see a different side to a wife that wasn't a total monster. 

But yeah, I'll see if I can continue watching this season but....they gotta give me some more hope, here. This season needs to give me something to say that things will get better. I'm not here for the long, drawn-out story, much like their camera work. 

I know I should be accepting that this show is primarily still around for their "awesome camera work", which is just telling the actor to face the camera and use their facial expressions to look sad or thoughtful, but....still, their writing has to be much better than it is. 

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