S06.E05: The Gospel of Josephine

[CooperTV]

Quote

Jordan investigates Sanctum. Meanwhile, Octavia and Diyoza discover the threats of the new planet firsthand. Lastly, Bellamy and Clarke butt heads.

Original airdate 5/28/2019

Edited May 22, 2019 by CooperTV

[Lady Calypso]

This season is so good so far. They are moving things along quickly, but not in a bad way. They have also set up a lot to go through in the next 8 episodes. 

So, the gang figures out what the Primes are doing AND Jo gets caught by Bellamy. And she captures him and recruits Murphy, who is in a vulnerable enough place to listen to her. I do believe that he won't go all the way, but he's probably going to get damn close. I can see Murphy being the big hero as he's now their inside man. I just hope things end well for him this season. I worry about my favourite character the most, especially when it looks like he will team up with the Primes.

I do love Jo and how sociopathic she is. She doesn't seem to give a shit about morality. I love her calling out her father on his hypocrisy. She's a fun antagonist. Plus, she wants to bang Murphy. Hopefully, he doesn't get himself into another Ontari situation.

So now Jo knows about Madi and she will find out about making Nightbloods, which is gonna be dangerous. 

Meanwhile, Octavia and Diyoza bond and Octavia's hand ages decades because of the temporal anomaly. I'm intrigued. And Lincoln 2.0 is still suspicious and totally getting with Octavia...or maybe Diyoza.

[tennisgurl]

I love that what ended up being the first thing that tipped people off to something being weird with Clarke was her calling Murphy "John" all of the sudden! Both Bellamy and Murphy both practically did a double take. I actually really like that it was what really made people, while not figure it out instantly, but go "wait, what?" that lets Bellamy work things out. Of course Josie wouldn't know right away that almost no one, especially Clarke, would call Murphy by his first name, and its even weird to the audience. 

I am really liking this season, its moving at a brisk pace, but still with lots to cover for the rest of the season. Glad that at least Bellamy figured things out quickly, even if he is in big trouble, and now Murphy knows, and it isnt just people ignoring the obvious signs that Clarke is acting super weird. Oh Bellamy, he looked so horrified when he realized that this wasnt Clarke, and now he is trapped in yet another creepy place full of people who want to kill him.

Eliza Taylor is really doing a great job playing amoral flighty Josie, she is so different than Clarke, and you can see in even her body language that this is a totally different person. I did appreciate her calling her father out on his hypocrisy. Yeah he is just such a nice awesome guy, manipulating his people into giving up their lives so that rich people can live forever, and murdering Clarke for his own gain. I like her as a bad guy.

I loved the little scene of Murphy and Bellamy giving Jordan some shit about his crush, it was cute and funny and while this place is clearly dark and dangerous underneath is happy exterior, it is a more stable environment than what we have had in awhile, and its nice to see people actually get to kind of chill for a second. Speaking of Murphy, I think that he is either going to start playing Josie when he is done feeling out what her deal is, or he will actually get behind the Primes and their promises that he can live forever, after being scared to death by his near death experience of seeing himself in Hell, and then back out when he realizes he cant betray everyone like that. I dont even think he can be that ok with Clarke being killed and her body being used as a puppet, as much as he is pissed at her. I think he will end up being their inside man. 

 Diyoza continues to be awesome. 

[thuganomics85]

Of course, not only is Josephine insane, she thinks Murphy is cute and automatically tries to recruit him.  Oh, Josie!  Eliza Taylor does seem to be having fun getting to actually shake things up this season.  I still suspect it is all going to end with them somehow bringing Clarke back, but this should be fun!

As for Murphy, not sure how to he is going to handle this.  He definitely is always out for himself and could totally end up aligning himself with her.  But he is certainly an unpredictable one, and I can easily seem him betraying her if he feels like he has something to gain by switching back.  Curious to see how it plays out.

At least Bellamy was smart enough to realize something was off, but naturally it ends with him getting knocked out.

Cool seeing Sean Maguire again as Original Russell again in the video stuff.

Aww, Diyosa and Octavia are bonding!  While chasing Xavier.  And then getting trapped in quicksand!

[AudienceofOne]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

As for Murphy, not sure how to he is going to handle this.  He definitely is always out for himself and could totally end up aligning himself with her. 

I really don't see Murphy as being solely out for himself. I feel like that's become his personal brand, like it's a marketing tagline for himself. But it's been a long time since he genuinely put himself over everybody else.

To me, "Wouldn't it be awesome if I could live forever!" is going to last about 10 seconds after he realises they murdered Clarke. 

At least, that's my read of his character. If that isn't the case this time around, they'll have to do a good job of selling me on it. 

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

I really don't see Murphy as being solely out for himself. I feel like that's become his personal brand, like it's a marketing tagline for himself. But it's been a long time since he genuinely put himself over everybody else.

To me, "Wouldn't it be awesome if I could live forever!" is going to last about 10 seconds after he realises they murdered Clarke. 

At least, that's my read of his character. If that isn't the case this time around, they'll have to do a good job of selling me on it. 

I think Murphy was scared by his literal death experience. Whatever he saw and felt, shook him up to the point where he is seriously considering to betray his friends to live forever. That is an inciting offer for someone like Murphy, who has always been about survival. 

But do I think he'll go through with it? No. I think, when it comes down to it, if he has to face his friends and actually betray them, knowing that they'll die, I can't see him doing it. He may think that he can now, but he's bonded with these people. He's not the same guy from season 1. He'll get close but I can't see him going through with it, even to survive. 

I think him working with the Primes genuinely is either going to last longer than we think, or he's going to be working on the inside to destroy the Primes. After all, what better way to create a successful plan than to be their inside man? Which still means that we may not know what side he's truly on until the final battle between the Primes and our Earthkru. 

I don't agree with Murphy if he does go through with working with Josie, but I understand why he might do it. They've set up his arc extremely well and I'm genuinely excited. This is the best arc for Murphy since...well, probably ever. And, more to it, he's making shady decisions but in an in-character way. It's not like season 3 Bellamy randomly deciding to join Pike and murder 300 Grounders out of fear. 

[jay741982]

Well gee Russell those people probably wouldnt have wanted to burn this world down if you didnt "Kill Clarke" . His BS "If they find out we killed Clarke they will want to burn down this world like the last one. Well..... you're bringing it on yourself. I wonder why Josephine is so psychopathic. She seemed nice in the season premiere. Maybe her dad killing her?

[ketose]

So, there's a 100% chance Sanctum is going to burn to the ground by the end of the season.

[Sakura12]

Abby sees Clarke writing with her right hand and just ignores it so she can focus on what she wants. Good to see she's still awful. Bellamy figures it out only because Josephine doesn't speak Trig. Although she seemed to pick up the logistics of it. I guess being 200 years old gives you lots of time to learn everything and become a psychopath. 

I really hope Murphy is only pretending to want it to get close to the Primes. No matter the awful things Clarke has done she, she did to protect people she cares about and would die to do it. The Primes only seem to care about themselves. There was no way Jo could pretend to be Clarke for long without help which I suppose Murphy is going to help with. Although he doesn't know about the 6 years with Madi, none of them do. 

Eliza Taylor is doing a great job, she even talks differently as Josephine. Which is impressive since she's Australian and now doing another American accent. She also holds herself differently. Clarke looked like she had the world weighing her down and it was all over her face. Jo has none of that, she's carefree and psychotic.  

[AudienceofOne]

I thought that Bellamy spoke Trig to Clarke because he suspected she wasn't Clarke. He was testing her.

But  you're right - Clarke doesn't behave like Clarke in front of her own mother and she's too self-absorbed to notice. Bellamy low-key suspects immediately. 

[Samwise979]

Please remind me, is Otari (sorry, I'm botching her name - Murphy's girlfriend) a nightblood?

[quarks]

My guess is that yes, Murphy is tempted by the idea of eternal life - after all, he just died, something that seemed to convince him that he's heading to hell, and he was a lot less shocked and upset by what the Primes were doing than Bellamy, Jordan and Gaia were.

But I also think that his "I'm listening," was at least in part an attempt to buy time. After all, he shot backwards and got into a defensive posture right after realizing that he was actually talking to Josephine. He knows Josephine is one of the people who have been killing other people in order to live forever, and he's been on this show long enough to know that it has a very high death rate.

So, yeah, predicting that he'll end up betraying Josephine, not Our Unheroic Heroes.

13 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

I thought that Bellamy spoke Trig to Clarke because he suspected she wasn't Clarke. He was testing her.

But  you're right - Clarke doesn't behave like Clarke in front of her own mother and she's too self-absorbed to notice. Bellamy low-key suspects immediately. 

I thought Bellamy started to get suspicious when Clarke was all, "Oh well, sure, they're killing people, but it's not murder if they volunteer," and then got more suspicious after Josephine called Murphy "John." Thus the Trig test.

I found it interesting that the person most trained in observing people's behavior - Echo - was conveniently absent for all of this. As was the person most likely to call Clarke out on ethical failures right now - Raven.

15 minutes ago, Samwise979 said:

Please remind me, is Otari (sorry, I'm botching her name - Murphy's girlfriend) a nightblood?

No. She was kicked out for being deformed. Later, at Becca's lab, Abby planned to test the nightblood process out on Emori, but after Murphy shouted at Clarke, Clarke decided to test the nightblood process out on herself. Emori still has regular blood. 

[ketose]

16 minutes ago, Samwise979 said:

Please remind me, is Otari (sorry, I'm botching her name - Murphy's girlfriend) a nightblood?

Murphy's current (sorta) girlfriend is Emori. She's a mutant with a deformed hand.

The woman mentioned earlier, Ontari, was the Commander (and therefore a Nightblood) who became the commander, but didn't have the flame because it went missing. Basically, Murphy taught her how to lie and she ordered him to have sex with her. She wasn't really his girlfriend since he was dating Emori at the time.

[Sakura12]

15 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

I thought that Bellamy spoke Trig to Clarke because he suspected she wasn't Clarke. He was testing her.

But  you're right - Clarke doesn't behave like Clarke in front of her own mother and she's too self-absorbed to notice. Bellamy low-key suspects immediately. 

A leftie writing with their right hand would be a real noticeable change, more than any other mistake Jo did with the others. But of course Abby doesn't care. Murphy can tell Jo to not worry about Clarke's mom and that she'd probably like her. She turned her husband and daughter in to be floated and jailed. She cares only about what she wants. 

[Chris24601]

I feel sorry for Maddi. No matter what happens her de-facto mom is dead.

From the description of the procedure the only way they’re getting Clarke back is by uploading the end of season three version in the Flame; i.e. the one who’s never even met Maddi and wouldn’t remember or have technically even done anything since taking out the City of Light (can a memory backup be responsible for the actions taken after the backup happened?).

For that matter; the version of Clarke who comes back would also initially think she’s six years younger, that Earth is still habitable, Octavia wasn’t Bloodreina and Jasper, Monty and Harper are all still alive and she’s not a Nightblood.

It’s gonna suck for them barring some hocus pocus involving having once carried the Flame letting her original brain not be wiped out by the process.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Chris24601

[ketose]

1 minute ago, Chris24601 said:

I feel sorry for Maddi. No matter what happens her de-facto mom is dead.

From the description of the procedure the only way they’re getting Clarke back is by uploading the end of season three version in the Flame; i.e. the one who’s never even met Maddi and wouldn’t remember or have technically even done anything since taking out the City of Light (can a memory backup be responsible for the actions taken after the backup happened?).

For that matter; the version of Clarke who comes back would also initially think she’s six years younger, that Earth is still habitable, Octavia wasn’t Bloodreina and Jasper, Monty and Harper are all still alive.

It’s gonna suck for them barring some hocus pocus involving having once carried the Flame letting her original brain not be wiped out by the process.

Going back to my watching of "Dollhouse" they had a similar situation with Echo. She had her personality saved on a hard drive and deleted from her brain, but supposedly her nervous system was unique and had some sort of capability to back up. Since you can't erase a hard drive completely (sort of) I'm guessing that Clarke comes back based on a combination of her memories in the Flame, Madi's memories of Clarke and residual long-term memory that wasn't fully erased.

[Sakura12]

The flame will have season 3 Clarke and she can access Madi's memories of her. But I think Clarke is still in there somewhere. She is always the special one so she will probably fight to take back control of her body.

[ParadoxLost]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

Abby sees Clarke writing with her right hand and just ignores it so she can focus on what she wants. Good to see she's still awful. Bellamy figures it out only because Josephine doesn't speak Trig.

I thought Josephine sort of picking up Trig was a sign that Clarke is still in there. That last question asking for word clarification was a bit too close to what Bellamy was saying.  Maybe Josie has a linguistics specialty and she can dechiper general meaning of Trig because it evolved from an Earth language (like you can suss out some words in various languages if you know Latin).

But the alternative is that this chip is somewhat like the flame.  The flame lets the new Commander access memories of prior Commanders.  Maybe the chip lets a personality dominate the host but access some aspects of the host like language.  But with limits that make it just hard enough that Josie has to work for keeping up the masquerade and finding out about nightblood but not hard enough that Clarke is completely gone.  Clarke will probably be different because she isn't conditioned to relinquish her autonomy to the host.

I would be shocked if before Josie is gone, Clarke gets moments of autonomy during sleep or inebriation, etc.  Just enough that she frees Bellamy or Murphy clues in, but not enough that they can escape with her.  Gives them a save Clarke mission.

[AudienceofOne]

Josephine is supposed to be a super genius and Trig is just English with a language shift. I'm not sure why it shifted so much in only 100 years - especially when Sanctum's didn't shift at all over a much longer period - but then I think we have to defer to the power of Handwavium with the 100 timeframe for a lot of things.

[Sakura12]

Yeah I think Josephine was deciphering the language and that's why she asked Bellamy to repeat the last word. She's 200 years old she had plenty of time to study everything. 

Now Clarke could still be in there and able to fight her way through at some point. 

[SourK]

To echo what everyone else already said: I'm really enjoying this season, and enjoyed this episode particularly. Plus, I'm glad Diyoza stayed around. If they're going to leave Octavia in, then having her go on an adventure with Diyoza is an okay way to do it. And I kind of liked that scene in the quicksand where Diyoza's just standing there while Octavia struggles and sinks and she's like, "You were literally told that struggling would make you sink, but you're so bullheaded you just keep doing it." (paraphrase)

It was a nice summary of the character's motivations coming from someone who would believably have insight into it.

23 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

So, the gang figures out what the Primes are doing AND Jo gets caught by Bellamy. And she captures him and recruits Murphy, who is in a vulnerable enough place to listen to her. I do believe that he won't go all the way, but he's probably going to get damn close.

Another thing I liked about this episode! Murphy was just being Murphy in all of his scenes -- acting totally in character, saying stuff he'd normally say, and it makes sense that that behaviour would tip Jo off that he's the most corruptible, morally grey person to go after.

18 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Oh Bellamy, he looked so horrified when he realized that this wasnt Clarke, and now he is trapped in yet another creepy place full of people who want to kill him.

They did a really good job with that scene. You can see the moment she makes a decision and kind of thinks, "He's doing this to trick me and I can't bluff my way through it; there's no point anymore, so I'll just let the mask fall and enjoy freaking him out." And then the camera goes all fisheye creepy while it happens to take us inside Bellamy's POV as the nature of the conversation suddenly changes. Really nice.

I also, just in general, liked that everyone in this episode seemed smart. Jo was good at figuring out them, they were good at figuring her out, everybody figured out the situation with the Primes, Jo figured out that saving Marcus is her way to convert Abby (which is a great way to tie the plot contrivance with is health into the story), and we can already see the pieces of sense-making plays fall into place.

Add that all to whatever that twist was with the alien lights that chased Diyoza and Octavia and I'm still totally on board and totally interested to see what happens.

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

Yeah I think Josephine was deciphering the language and that's why she asked Bellamy to repeat the last word. 

She was.  Original Recipe Josephine had shown a proficiency in Latin in the previous ep with the flashbacks, and when she heard Bellamy speaking Trig for the first time she mumbled something about Latin and Creole (I think??) plus something else.

1 hour ago, AudienceofOne said:

I'm not sure why it shifted so much in only 100 years - especially when Sanctum's didn't shift at all over a much longer period - but then I think we have to defer to the power of Handwavium with the 100 timeframe for a lot of things.

I think after we found out about the Mt Weather folks we were supposed to "get" that the Grounders pretty much invented Trig as a code language to keep Mt Weather from being able to spy on them as easily.

If you really sit and listen to the words they use, btw, it's pretty hilarious.  Fight sounds like 'throw down', and I think Roan said something to Clarke about blood one time that sounded like "kru juice".  I remember laughing about that for quite a while.

[blixie]

Quote

I wonder why Josephine is so psychopathic.

In a lot of genre stories immortality is morally corrosive. Mortality and reciprocity are pretty intertwined we need to survive so we work together, in communities, but why work to together to survive if you can't die or can come back from any death you suffer? I also assume they were all assholes to start with  and Becca filled their minds with a superiority complex from the start.  I am confused as to the exact composition of Elegius III they said their were 13 of them (which was the same amount of ships in space too right in the first season? )  There has to be some reason the non Nightblood's in Sanctum just happily go along with it. And also wonder when Gabriel decided what he'd done was wrong and he should destroy ALL nightbloods regardless. 

 

Quote

From the description of the procedure 

Eh I'm pretty sure it's gonna be like Get Out the other consciousness isn't "dead" or "erased"  just dormant. There would be no way to map consciousness/identity scientifically. All they have to do is yank Josephine's chip out of her and she'll be Clarke again. 

I wanna know if the "old man' Gabriel is still Josephine's boyfriend, because I kind of can't believe fuckboi Rothenberg can resist yanking Bellarke chains by having Jo's boyfriend uploaded into Bellamy. Hopefully I'm wrong and between Murphy and Bell they get Clarke back. 

[jay741982]

16 hours ago, ketose said:

So, there's a 100% chance Sanctum is going to burn to the ground by the end of the season.

Hope so! I'd enjoy it! Though I wouldnt mind Deliah come back into her body cause I like her and Jordan. Russell Josephine and Mother can burn for all I care 

[jay741982]

47 minutes ago, blixie said:

In a lot of genre stories immortality is morally corrosive. Mortality and reciprocity are pretty intertwined we need to survive so we work together, in communities, but why work to together to survive if you can't die or can come back from any death you suffer? I also assume they were all assholes to start with  and Becca filled their minds with a superiority complex from the start.  I am confused as to the exact composition of Elegius III they said their were 13 of them (which was the same amount of ships in space too right in the first season? )  There has to be some reason the non Nightblood's in Sanctum just happily go along with it. And also wonder when Gabriel decided what he'd done was wrong and he should destroy ALL nightbloods regardless. 

 

Eh I'm pretty sure it's gonna be like Get Out the other consciousness isn't "dead" or "erased"  just dormant. There would be no way to map consciousness/identity scientifically. All they have to do is yank Josephine's chip out of her and she'll be Clarke again. 

I wanna know if the "old man' Gabriel is still Josephine's boyfriend, because I kind of can't believe fuckboi Rothenberg can resist yanking Bellarke chains by having Jo's boyfriend uploaded into Bellamy. Hopefully I'm wrong and between Murphy and Bell they get Clarke back. 

I kinda figured Gabriel is the Gabriel of Children of Gabriel. Meaning along the way he and Josephine separated possibly cause he saw himself as doing a really bad thing and also witnessed his Girlfriend become a Pyschopath 

[blixie]

Quote

 kinda figured Gabriel is the Gabriel of Children of Gabriel.

I know it's the same Gabriel which is why I said WHEN did he change his mind not why/how. He clearly already knows it's a shitty morally compromised thing to do in the video he looked tortured by not just the process of discovery, but the method and cost of overcoming death.  I assume he did it only to save his dead girlfriend and then when the Primes decided it was an entire program/way of to live forever he tapped out.

[Samwise979]

18 hours ago, ketose said:

Murphy's current (sorta) girlfriend is Emori. She's a mutant with a deformed hand.

The woman mentioned earlier, Ontari, was the Commander (and therefore a Nightblood) who became the commander, but didn't have the flame because it went missing. Basically, Murphy taught her how to lie and she ordered him to have sex with her. She wasn't really his girlfriend since he was dating Emori at the time.

Funny how the brain works because I totally forgot about the commander Ontari but it must have been there somewhere in my subconscious for me to call Emori "Otari" lol. Thanks for the answer and clarification. 

My episode was interrupted twice by a weather alert so I watched it a second time on Netflix. This episode was really good. I'm excited for the season. 

[Taryn74]

28 minutes ago, Samwise979 said:

My episode was interrupted twice by a weather alert so I watched it a second time on Netflix. This episode was really good. I'm excited for the season. 

I keep seeing people mention watching it on Netflix - how????  I only have through S5 available on Netflix.  I've been suffering through commercials on cwtv .com to watch each week.

[Samwise979]

21 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

I keep seeing people mention watching it on Netflix - how????  I only have through S5 available on Netflix.  I've been suffering through commercials on cwtv .com to watch each week.

Are you in Canada or US? In Canada the episodes are up on Netflix the next day. 

[Taryn74]

Ah, I'm in the US. Thanks for the answer!

[ketose]

22 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Josephine is supposed to be a super genius and Trig is just English with a language shift. I'm not sure why it shifted so much in only 100 years - especially when Sanctum's didn't shift at all over a much longer period - but then I think we have to defer to the power of Handwavium with the 100 timeframe for a lot of things.

Also, the leaders of the Sanctum are over 200 years old. So they would use a lot of the same words and cultural references for their whole lives.

20 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

She was.  Original Recipe Josephine had shown a proficiency in Latin in the previous ep with the flashbacks, and when she heard Bellamy speaking Trig for the first time she mumbled something about Latin and Creole (I think??) plus something else.

I think after we found out about the Mt Weather folks we were supposed to "get" that the Grounders pretty much invented Trig as a code language to keep Mt Weather from being able to spy on them as easily.

If you really sit and listen to the words they use, btw, it's pretty hilarious.  Fight sounds like 'throw down', and I think Roan said something to Clarke about blood one time that sounded like "kru juice".  I remember laughing about that for quite a while.

The subtitles make it fun sometimes. I noticed the Trig word for pilot is "maverick" a while back. I guess someone watched Top Gun.

[Taryn74]

5 minutes ago, ketose said:

The subtitles make it fun sometimes. I noticed the Trig word for pilot is "maverick" a while back. I guess someone watched Top Gun.

Ha!  Love it.

[ramble]

I’m not not enjoying this season. But I don’t give a flying frack about the people of Sanctum. I find the immortal murderers who have defined themselves as gods boring. I understand it’s advancing a story line but it’s one that doesn’t hold my attention.

The only saving grace for me right now is Murphy and his attitude. I’m also interested in meeting the new Grounders and hearing their story. I don’t understand Octavia’s hand changing. All of her was in the crystallized quicksand so why was only her hand impacted? I’d rather focus on the weird stuff with a new planet than another saving Clarke story. 

Final thought: Abby is the worst. She is so completely self-absorbed that it’s completely unenjoyable  to watch. I really wish she would’ve died in one of the 3,246 catastrophic, world-burning, disasters that have occurred. 

[AudienceofOne]

Frankly, I'm not finding the whole Mt Weather Pt 2 conflict interesting at all. 

For me, what Bellamy brought up about the 200 people still in stasis is far more of an interesting philosophical quandary. This season would have been much better if it was about them finding this small, safe but closed community that was only letting some of them stay. The conflict is then about whether you choose to save yourself and your close friends or strike out to build a larger community that can house everybody.

As far as moral or ethical questions go, that's a far more interesting one to me than "this is just like Mount Weather, who has to pull the lever this time around?"

[paulvdb]

1 hour ago, ramble said:

I don’t understand Octavia’s hand changing. All of her was in the crystallized quicksand so why was only her hand impacted?

Because it was closest to the surface when the temporal flare passed by. So I guess it wasn't as protected by the quicksand as the rest of her.

[ketose]

6 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Frankly, I'm not finding the whole Mt Weather Pt 2 conflict interesting at all. 

For me, what Bellamy brought up about the 200 people still in stasis is far more of an interesting philosophical quandary. This season would have been much better if it was about them finding this small, safe but closed community that was only letting some of them stay. The conflict is then about whether you choose to save yourself and your close friends or strike out to build a larger community that can house everybody.

As far as moral or ethical questions go, that's a far more interesting one to me than "this is just like Mount Weather, who has to pull the lever this time around?"

It was also similar to last season when Monty wanted to use his algae as a base for making the barren land Wonkru was forced onto habitable again. That way they could avoid a fight with the prisoners. Octavia burned it down because Octavia gonna Octavia.

[ottoDbusdriver]

On 5/28/2019 at 10:21 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Meanwhile, Octavia and Diyoza bond and Octavia's hand ages decades because of the temporal anomaly. I'm intrigued. 

I guess Octavia's superpower now is ..... crippling arthritis 

On 5/29/2019 at 5:33 PM, ketose said:

So, there's a 100% chance Sanctum is going to burn to the ground by the end of the season.

Of course, this whole planet will be a cinder by the end of the season.

On 5/29/2019 at 6:41 PM, Chris24601 said:

For that matter; the version of Clarke who comes back would also initially think she’s six years younger, that Earth is still habitable, Octavia wasn’t Bloodreina and Jasper, Monty and Harper are all still alive and she’s not a Nightblood.

It’s gonna suck for them barring some hocus pocus involving having once carried the Flame letting her original brain not be wiped out by the process.

Then again, maybe the temporal anomaly will bring Clarke back somehow

4 hours ago, ketose said:

Also, the leaders of the Sanctum are over 200 years old. So they would use a lot of the same words and cultural references for their whole lives.

Josephine (in Clarke) even mentioned the SuperBowl -- would anyone still know what that is after all this time ?

Where the hell was Raven this episode ?

Octavia should be dead -- her lungs would be full of those round clear nodules that made up the sink pit, she wouldn't just be coughing up water.
How long did that area take to cool if it was so hot that it incinerated the surrounding trees and turned the surface of the sink pit to glass ?

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Josephine (in Clarke) even mentioned the SuperBowl -- would anyone still know what that is after all this time ?

In early season 1, we saw Clarke, Wells, Jaha, and Clarke's dad watching a football game. The people of Sanctum seem to hold on to the pre-Apocalypse stuff more than Earthkru, but some things still do carry over (Josephine uttering the phrase "penny for your thoughts" with Murphy not knowing what a penny is, for example).

Josephine also speaks a lot of languages that would have died years ago. Then again, the Primes are the ones who actually grew up in the pre-Apocalypse world so it makes sense for them to know something like a Superbowl. Referencing it so often is more weird to me, but I think part of that is simply the show wanting to capitalize on the opportunity to mention the Superbowl. 

2 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Then again, maybe the temporal anomaly will bring Clarke back somehow

There's a few options as to how they get Clarke back. But honestly, I wouldn't want pre-season 4 Clarke. I'm really not fond of the idea that six years of Clarke's life is essentially gone. I don't know how well that would work, either. I think it could create some drama but....I don't know, I'm just not liking the idea. 

[jay741982]

On 5/30/2019 at 11:06 AM, blixie said:

I know it's the same Gabriel which is why I said WHEN did he change his mind not why/how. He clearly already knows it's a shitty morally compromised thing to do in the video he looked tortured by not just the process of discovery, but the method and cost of overcoming death.  I assume he did it only to save his dead girlfriend and then when the Primes decided it was an entire program/way of to live forever he tapped out.

Lolz sorry I reread and realized you wondered WHEN. And I'm thinking the same thing. 

[domina89]

I am really liking this season so far.  It feels like it has been reinvigorated in a good way.

I personally think the original personalities of the body snatched may still be in there but no one really knows because the primes have never given up their new bodies to find out.  I'm basing this on what Delilah said to Jordan about not letting her become "a face behind the glass."  That implies she may still be in there but dormant.  I think they may be able to recover them somehow but Abby needs to get her act together in order to be useful.  I'm also wondering if this will tie in with Marcus somehow? Perhaps they will learn how to transplant his consciousness into someone else (because his body is trashed) and maybe Gabriel will be willing to help them?  He may be willing to help Clarke as well but will be conflicted since Josephine is his ex.

Edited May 31, 2019 by domina89
clarification

[Daltrey]

On 5/29/2019 at 5:09 PM, ParadoxLost said:

Maybe the chip lets a personality dominate the host but access some aspects of the host

I was thinking something along these lines when Josie's parents (haven't got all the names down yet) found her painting. I can't remember how much it's been referenced over the seasons but it was established in the opening scene of season one that Clark is an excellent artist. If you can recall, she's on the floor of her cell drawing while Eliza does a voice over describing the situation and premise before being taken out and told that they're being sent to the ground. I immediately thought Josie's art may be a remnant of Clark and a sign that she's not entirely gone. I have to agree with others that Eliza is doing an amazing job creating an entirely new character with Josie. Maybe not Tatiana Maslany Orphan Black level, but impressive none the less. 

[hertolo]

So, if these primes are the first settlers of Sanctum, where do their victims come from? That was a small mission right, is that enough time to increase your population that much? And how could they convince these others that they are gods. I get it the fifth time, but how for a first one? Or are these other humans from somewhere else? For the moment, they seem like chattel, not players in the plot.

I get that they wanted to tell the Stargate story in a different way, but it‘s literally that Egyptian Gods story with parasites / chips going from one body to the next.

I‘m with others in here, I would be way more interested in the planet or moon, its fauna and flora, than in yet another thriller redux. But I guess the writers couldn‘t write that convincingly or it‘d have taken too much time, so what we get is schemes and backstabbing. Well ok...

[Bizabra]

I'm enjoying the show, BUT. . . . . I can't help but wonder where the heck are they getting those clothes? Who made them? Where? Where did they get the fabric to make them in the first place? WHY are the fashions so "normal" and "trendy"? I'm so distracted by it!

Do they have sewing machines and workshops where they make them? Where is this factory? Where did that gorgeous gold lace trim on Head Dude's red velvet jacket come from? Did they bring a ginormous stock of fabric and trimmings with them? Why?

It's like when they were all on Earth and everyone was wearing these incredibly complicated leather outfits with grommets and shiny dangly bits all over. Where did they get all the black leather? Where were the cows it came from? Where were the dye vats? WHO was making these items? Where did the boots come from? The jeans?

I guess I have the idea that post-apocalyptic dystopias would be lacking in manufactured clothing and goods and that people would dress more simply and in rougher, home made fabrics and clothing, NOT in fine velvets and trims and steampunk, gothic black leather outfits complete with nice leather boots! 

[ParadoxLost]

5 hours ago, hertolo said:

So, if these primes are the first settlers of Sanctum, where do their victims come from? That was a small mission right, is that enough time to increase your population that much? And how could they convince these others that they are gods. I get it the fifth time, but how for a first one? Or are these other humans from somewhere else? For the moment, they seem like chattel, not players in the plot.

Right before Josie's Dad shot everyone in the flashback, I thought they were talking about that.   I can't recall the specifics, but I came away assuming they had genetic material and a way to grow babies by artificial means.

[Taryn74]

22 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Right before Josie's Dad shot everyone in the flashback, I thought they were talking about that.   I can't recall the specifics, but I came away assuming they had genetic material and a way to grow babies by artificial means.

Yes. They mentioned "the embryos".

[ottoDbusdriver]

16 hours ago, hertolo said:

I‘m with others in here, I would be way more interested in the planet or moon, its fauna and flora, than in yet another thriller redux. But I guess the writers couldn‘t write that convincingly or it‘d have taken too much time, so what we get is schemes and backstabbing. Well ok...

You give a little too much credit to the writers, because they can't help but repeat themselves since they ran out of any original ideas back in Season 1.

[Isazouzi]

Glad to see Stromae's music has survived multiple apocalypses and space travel! Alors on danse !

I'm enjoying this season while simultaneously finding it incredibly confusing and bad. It's not exactly a fresh take on themes that have been done over and over again, and yet I'm along for the ride. It's all thanks to the characters, really.

On 6/1/2019 at 12:23 PM, Daltrey said:

 I have to agree with others that Eliza is doing an amazing job creating an entirely new character with Josie. Maybe not Tatiana Maslany Orphan Black level, but impressive none the less. 

No one is at Tatiana Meslany's level. No one. OK, maybe Jodie Comer on Killing Eve is not far behind.

[Daltrey]

On 6/7/2019 at 5:28 AM, Isazouzi said:

No one is at Tatiana Meslany's level. No one. OK, maybe Jodie Comer on Killing Eve is not far behind.

You raise a very valid point! 😊 I guess I just figured it didn't need to be said, lol. I haven't seen Killing Eve yet, not a big fan of Sandra Oh, but I did put it on my list once I heard about it. Now you've got my interest piqued. 

[Sakura12]

Sandra Oh is kind of annoying but Jodie Comer is amazing on Killing Eve. Not many can make a complete psychopath charming and likeable. 

While no one I've seen yet is at Tatiana Maslany level. Eliza is doing a good job with playing a completely different character while also having to pretend to be her previous character and sucking at it.