S04.E02: Somebody's Been Reading Dante's Inferno

[paulvdb]

Quote

Chloe and Lucifer look into a murder on the set of a reality show. Father Kinley presses forward with a plan. Amenadiel reconsiders his idea of home.

[HunterHunted]

This plot with Chloe and Graham McTavish's priest character is more of the stupid writing that originally sunk this show. Chloe literally knows that Lucifer has a brother here on Earth. She just needs to confirm any of the church's allegations with Amenadiel. And if she doesn't have his cellphone number, ask Dan for it. Or mention Amenadiel to Graham McTavish. Or ask the priest if he knows anything about what went on with "Mom." Like if they don't know any of those details, they don't know anything. She had much easier ways of confirming their expertise and knowledge.

[Miles]

So Linda carrying a Nephilim. That's fun. I must have a bit of ptsd form last season, because one of my first thought was that it might screw things up with Maze, but I think the writers know better now.

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

This plot with Chloe and Graham McTavish's priest character is more of the stupid writing that originally sunk this show. Chloe literally knows that Lucifer has a brother here on Earth. She just needs to confirm any of the church's allegations with Amenadiel. And if she doesn't have his cellphone number, ask Dan for it. Or mention Amenadiel to Graham McTavish. Or ask the priest if he knows anything about what went on with "Mom." Like if they don't know any of those details, they don't know anything. She had much easier ways of confirming their expertise and knowledge. 

Well she has never been the sharpest tool in the shed. Not sure how she is so good at solving murders. Must be some idiot savant thing.

But yeah, I was asking myself why she wouldn't just talk to Amenadiel or at least Maze. While you can't exactly trust a demon, Chloe is supposed to be a detecive, isn't she? So talking to multiple people, finding contradictions in stories and sleuthing out the truth is supposed to be her job, isn't it?

[Helena Dax]

Linda's pregnant, omg!

[Jacks-Son]

I actually thought the priest was God and testing Chloe to see if SHE loved Lucifer back.

There were so many one-liners that were pure gold. Unfortunately, while bingeing you lose in what episode they were said.

[dwmarch]

"Linda, you scared the shit out of me!" Thank you, Netflix!

Edit: also "That's gin!" "Yeah, only top shelf for my girl!"

Edited May 9, 2019 by dwmarch
Forgot Maze's other great line

[tennisgurl]

We got to say shit! Netflix is fun!

Chloe didnt think of talking to Amenadiel about Lucifer and what his deal is? Did she figure out that he was an angel, or does he think he is a demon like Maze or fallen like Lucifer? Wouldn't she figure if he was still tight with his angel brother that he might not be a total bad guy? Well, no one has ever accused Chloe of being the a master detective. She aint exactly Batman. 

Oh, Lucifer is gonna be so hurt when he realizes what she was doing, even if she did decide against it at the last minute. Also, the use of Poison when she was about to poison Lucifer for the Exorcist Squad to banish him seems like a pretty big coincidence. Is Dad messing about with things? 

Awww, Linda has a baby Nephilim in the oven! I am totally down with that, as long as the kid doesent grow up instantly and somehow take over the whole show than make a bunch of dumb choices and things get really weird and confusing and we forget who the main characters are supposed to be *cough Supernatural cough*. 

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, I do feel like that a lot of Chloe's dilemma would have actually been solved if she had automatically got more history and story about Lucifer from Maze and Amenadiel.  OK, even if she still doesn't fully trust Maze either, she should know that Amenadiel would tell it to her straight.  I'm glad she came around at the end at least, but I suspect that Graham McTavish's priest is still going to cause turmoil by stirring that pot and blabbing things to Lucifer.

Loved all of the riffs and insights into reality television and just how "real" it is, but I knew it was going to be the cameraman as soon as I saw that Cameron Gharaee was playing him, and he has done enough work (Ahmed in Tyrant, Capone in Timeless) to not just be a glorified extra.

Usually any storylines involving a sudden pregnancy set me on the edge, but Linda carrying Amenadiel's child is intriguing.  And I'm thinking/hoping it isn't going to cause any jealous issues with Maze.  If anything, I think she'll continue to go out of her  way to protect Linda now.  I do love their friendship!

Dan's still in the dumps, I see.  He isn't even willing to have some "male bonding experiences" with Amenadiel! 

[rainsmom]

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I knew it was going to be the cameraman as soon as I saw that Cameron Gharaee was playing him, and he has done enough work (Ahmed in Tyrant, Capone in Timeless) to not just be a glorified extra.

Snort. I knew it was going to be the cameraman as soon as he spoke. He had no other reason to exist -- or to be paid by production. 

[mledawn]

Contrivance is such an overused tool. Amenadiel was literally in the precinct, it's not like Chloe would have had to go out of her way to talk to him. 

Dan's been a jackass so far, I hope he picks it up.

[NutMeg]

I really enjoyed the Fake Survivor story - people playing specific characters to improve their chances, editing that misled, collusion between cast members and people working on the show... A nice hodgepodge of the facts, rumours and conspiracy theories that are as old as reality tv. 

[Rambler]

Aww Gary Coleman is in hell? Say it ain't so. "Watchoo talkin bout Willis?"

I must say, Chloe has the devil himself in front of her and she can ask him anything about God, Heaven, Hell, angels, demons, the whole rebellion thing, the famous people he's met in hell, and these are the questions she comes up with? She must be the most boringest person on the planet.

[rainsmom]

3 minutes ago, Rambler said:

I must say, Chloe has the devil himself in front of her and she can ask him anything about God, Heaven, Hell, angels, demons, the whole rebellion thing, the famous people he's met in hell, and these are the questions she comes up with? She must be the most boringest person on the planet.

Oh, she is. She is.

[Jacks-Son]

5 hours ago, rainsmom said:

5 hours ago, Rambler said:

I must say, Chloe has the devil himself in front of her and she can ask him anything about God, Heaven, Hell, angels, demons, the whole rebellion thing, the famous people he's met in hell, and these are the questions she comes up with? She must be the most boringest person on the planet.

Oh, she is. She is.

Maybe that's just what the devil needs.  When you live the lifestyle of Lucifer (e.g. drugs, sex, fast cars) and have done so, or at least versions of it, for a millennia, perhaps the last thing you need at home is more of the same.  However, the point of not even being at least curious about those things is well made.  For the sake of the show though, there is a limit to what it can expound on and in reality that's not the purpose of this show.  It can't answer what it doesn't know. Unfortunately, what the show doesn't know, is exactly what we don't know.

[Emma9]

On 5/9/2019 at 1:36 AM, tennisgurl said:

Awww, Linda has a baby Nephilim in the oven! I am totally down with that, as long as the kid doesent grow up instantly and somehow take over the whole show than make a bunch of dumb choices and things get really weird and confusing and we forget who the main characters are supposed to be *cough Supernatural cough*. 

My exact reaction.

On 5/11/2019 at 8:13 PM, Rambler said:

I must say, Chloe has the devil himself in front of her and she can ask him anything about God, Heaven, Hell, angels, demons, the whole rebellion thing, the famous people he's met in hell, and these are the questions she comes up with? She must be the most boringest person on the planet.

I so dearly loved Dr. Linda's reaction, by contrast. Initially freaked out, of course, but once she was able to accept him, she realized that Lucifer himself was only the tip of the iceberg and needed to reassess her entire worldview. (Peppering Lucifer with exactly the sort of questions you're talking about, complaining that she can no longer hope reincarnation is a thing, etc.) I'd have liked to see some of that from Chloe.

[GaT]

Only 2 episodes in & I am already sick to death of Chloe's religious crisis. This better be the end of it.

[Jacks-Son]

5 hours ago, GaT said:

Only 2 episodes in & I am already sick to death of Chloe's religious crisis. This better be the end of it.

Just for clarification, are you speaking of Chloe's religious crisis or Ella's religious crisis? I didn't see Chloe's trepidation as a religious crisis, however I did see Ella's crisis as actually realistic after the death of someone you know.

[GaT]

4 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Just for clarification, are you speaking of Chloe's religious crisis or Ella's religious crisis? I didn't see Chloe's trepidation as a religious crisis, however I did see Ella's crisis as actually realistic after the death of someone you know.

Chloe & her "the devil should be in hell, let me talk to a priest" crisis. 

[Jacks-Son]

4 hours ago, GaT said:

Chloe & her "the devil should be in hell, let me talk to a priest" crisis. 

Give it time.  I believe you will eventually understand that her initial trepidation was normal and the crisis you see is not what it seems.

[AnimeMania]

6 hours ago, GaT said:

Chloe & her "the devil should be in hell, let me talk to a priest" crisis. 

I agree with Chloe, if the Devil is running around on Earth, I want him to go back to Hell!

[Peace 47]

On 5/12/2019 at 1:37 AM, Jacks-Son said:

Maybe that's just what the devil needs.  When you live the lifestyle of Lucifer (e.g. drugs, sex, fast cars) and have done so, or at least versions of it, for a millennia, perhaps the last thing you need at home is more of the same.  However, the point of not even being at least curious about those things is well made.  For the sake of the show though, there is a limit to what it can expound on and in reality that's not the purpose of this show.  It can't answer what it doesn't know. Unfortunately, what the show doesn't know, is exactly what we don't know.

In the Ep 2x08 thread, I just posted a similar thought.  The show itself is just a metaphor for, and meditation on, redemption. (What does it look like?  How can one change?)  The practicalities of Hell are unimportant (and unknown), but like others, I do understand the frustration with Chloe’s incuriosity beyond talking to some random priest.  She obviously had reservations about trusting Maze (trying to keep her from apologizing to Trixie), though, so I get that she may have not known whom to trust at all anymore in her existing life. 

I’ve binged the entire series over just a few weeks, and I think it may be my new favorite show.  I’m quite the Deckerstar shipper even though I didn’t know what that meant a month or so ago, lol.  When I was watching the first half of S1, I wasn’t so sold on them being “together,” but the show thoroughly converted me.  I thought the scene where Lucifer jumps in front of the axe in this episode was really beautiful and touching, and I kind of wish that had been the climax of Lucifer and Chloe coming to an understanding of their relationship because the way he says he would do that for her “again and again—don’t you know that, Detective?” really melted my heart.  I know that soon after that, she texted him for the make-up date, but it was almost too late at that point because she went to Father Kinley first.  That’s also one of the greatest reasons to hate Father Kinley—preventing the make-up date from happening!

[johntfs]

16 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

In the Ep 2x08 thread, I just posted a similar thought.  The show itself is just a metaphor for, and meditation on, redemption. (What does it look like?  How can one change?)  The practicalities of Hell are unimportant (and unknown), but like others, I do understand the frustration with Chloe’s incuriosity beyond talking to some random priest.  She obviously had reservations about trusting Maze (trying to keep her from apologizing to Trixie), though, so I get that she may have not known whom to trust at all anymore in her existing life. 

I’ve binged the entire series over just a few weeks, and I think it may be my new favorite show.  I’m quite the Deckerstar shipper even though I didn’t know what that meant a month or so ago, lol.  When I was watching the first half of S1, I wasn’t so sold on them being “together,” but the show thoroughly converted me.  I thought the scene where Lucifer jumps in front of the axe in this episode was really beautiful and touching, and I kind of wish that had been the climax of Lucifer and Chloe coming to an understanding of their relationship because the way he says he would do that for her “again and again—don’t you know that, Detective?” really melted my heart.  I know that soon after that, she texted him for the make-up date, but it was almost too late at that point because she went to Father Kinley first.  That’s also one of the greatest reasons to hate Father Kinley—preventing the make-up date from happening!

Weird vulnerability effect aside, Chloe Decker is basically a normal person who was confronted with an extremely abnormal situation - that strange nightclub guy who styles himself as the Devil really, truly is the devil.  He's been in her home.  She's kissed him, come close to having sex with him.  Let him be alone with her child.  Been roommates with a demon.  So, she freaked out and ran away.

But, she's still a detective, so she ended up in Rome and starting trying to find answers.  Her search for those answers brought her to the attention of Kinley.  Kinley knew of Lucifer but he didn't really know Lucifer so of course he saw Lucifer as a threat.  Chloe went to Kinley at the end to tell him "No." 

[Peace 47]

Chloe saw what was true after the axe moment, and did the right thing at the end; it was really just Father Kinley being evil that posed yet another roadblock to Chloe and Lucifer getting on the same page.

It is interesting to compare Dr. Linda’s reaction to the news in S2 to Chloe’s reactions in 4x01 and 4x02, though, as a few people mentioned upthread (I wish there were an all-seasons, all episodes discussion thread).  I know Dr. Linda was just a friend/ psychiatrist (versus Chloe being the love of his life) and we didn’t really even see Linda interact with Lucifer until 2 episodes after she first learned, but Dr. Linda processed her fear by talking to Lucifer directly (versus Chloe running away), plus it was done with some humor and earlier in the show’s run as an issue of first impression, so it can seem that Chloe not having further discussion with Lucifer or even Amenadiel is a “stall to draw out the story” tactic, rather than an organic storytelling point, but by the same token, Chloe’s reaction seems reasonable and certainly what I would have done, and without any spoilers, I think subsequent episodes help contextualize this one, as well.  (It sure helps that I haven’t agonized over this entire story for 3 years, too, but rather got to soak everything in as a cohesive story over a few weeks.)

[johntfs]

17 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

Chloe saw what was true after the axe moment, and did the right thing at the end; it was really just Father Kinley being evil that posed yet another roadblock to Chloe and Lucifer getting on the same page.

It is interesting to compare Dr. Linda’s reaction to the news in S2 to Chloe’s reactions in 4x01 and 4x02, though, as a few people mentioned upthread (I wish there were an all-seasons, all episodes discussion thread).  I know Dr. Linda was just a friend/ psychiatrist (versus Chloe being the love of his life) and we didn’t really even see Linda interact with Lucifer until 2 episodes after she first learned, but Dr. Linda processed her fear by talking to Lucifer directly (versus Chloe running away), plus it was done with some humor and earlier in the show’s run as an issue of first impression, so it can seem that Chloe not having further discussion with Lucifer or even Amenadiel is a “stall to draw out the story” tactic, rather than an organic storytelling point, but by the same token, Chloe’s reaction seems reasonable and certainly what I would have done, and without any spoilers, I think subsequent episodes help contextualize this one, as well.  (It sure helps that I haven’t agonized over this entire story for 3 years, too, but rather got to soak everything in as a cohesive story over a few weeks.)

There's a couple of other things to consider about this.  First, Maze approached Linda and managed to get through to her.  Second, Chloe has a child.  In the context of "Lucifer Really is The Devil!" her first thought was to get herself and importantly, her child out of danger. 

[Peace 47]

I think also Chloe’s questions directly for Lucifer about the whole thing started to come out during their date night (about how he was capable of being injured), but it’s just that they get interrupted every single time they try to talk, poor crazy kids.  

I felt bad for Lucifer that he was so excited and positive for their date with his cute little 90s playlist, and then he had to watch her kind of melt down over his cut hand, indicating that things were definitely not yet in a good enough place to have a nice “normal” date yet.

[wilnil]

On 5/10/2019 at 3:11 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Yeah, I do feel like that a lot of Chloe's dilemma would have actually been solved if she had automatically got more history and story about Lucifer from Maze and Amenadiel.  OK, even if she still doesn't fully trust Maze either, she should know that Amenadiel would tell it to her straight. 

I was with everyone else on this until I started a rewatch of the series from the beginning. Now I think Chloe at this point (S4E2) has no reason to trust what Amenadiel says at all -- her longest real interaction with him to date was in the early second season when he tried to convince her that Lucifer was using movie FX to make it appear he'd withstood getting shot, which she now knows was bullshit. 

Sure, now she knows Amenadiel's a celestial … but for all she knows, he could be another fallen rebel on the outs with the devil, or heaven-sent but simply antagonistic toward his brother. Lucifer certainly has never made it a secret to her that he and Amenadiel are frequently at odds. And she pretty quickly made it way too awkward to try having a heart-to-heart with Maze on the subject of devils and demons.

[andipandi]

On 5/9/2019 at 1:36 AM, tennisgurl said:

Awww, Linda has a baby Nephilim in the oven! I am totally down with that, as long as the kid doesent grow up instantly and somehow take over the whole show than make a bunch of dumb choices and things get really weird and confusing and we forget who the main characters are supposed to be *cough Supernatural cough*. 

Could be worse, the baby could be kidnapped at birth and taken to a hell dimension to be raised by religious fanatics, grow up instantly and then make a whole bunch of dumb choices and then things get weird *cough Angel cough*.

[StarBrand]

So Chloe now knows that it's her proximity to Lucifer that makes him vunerable. Had she really wanted to get rid of Lucifer she simply could have killed him with that axe. Or any time she's with him. Very trusting of Lucifer to willingly allow himself to be around someone that could do what no other human can do.  Too bad the priest comes along and helps ruin that trust.

[milizard]

Currently on a catch-up binge, but would like to follow up on the questioning why Chloe didn't talk to Amenadiel about Lucifer after the big reveal.  Hello!  He went to heaven with Charlotte.  He wasn't around to ask, even if she wanted to.

Now, my take on this season so far.  It got back a lot of it's fun, but it might be getting a bit too much. I feel hit over the head with some things, here.  Sort of like movie trailers like to do, if you KWIM.  Something like, you must watch this because:  bam, bam, bam--here's all the cool-looking scenes in 5.9 seconds.

[paramitch]

Not amazing, but still 90% better than season 3. Thanks, God.

[HurricaneVal]

On 7/13/2019 at 7:40 AM, andipandi said:

On 5/8/2019 at 10:36 PM, tennisgurl said:

Awww, Linda has a baby Nephilim in the oven! I am totally down with that, as long as the kid doesent grow up instantly and somehow take over the whole show than make a bunch of dumb choices and things get really weird and confusing and we forget who the main characters are supposed to be *cough Supernatural cough*. 

Could be worse, the baby could be kidnapped at birth and taken to a hell dimension to be raised by religious fanatics, grow up instantly and then make a whole bunch of dumb choices and then things get weird *cough Angel cough*.

Is nobody going to mention Renesmee? 

[Anela]

I'm with everyone who doesn't want this baby to grow really fast, and be trouble, or some kind of child that is supposed to save mankind.