S02.E20: If Not Now, When?

[Bort]

Quote

Devon grows concerned when a mother's complaints go unaddressed after her delivery and pushes Bell to take drastic measures. Conrad is faced with breaking the news to Nic regarding Jessie's worsening condition. Meanwhile, The Raptor, Mina and Kit spring into action when a mother and son enter the ER with devastating injuries.

Airdate: Monday, April 15, 2019

[SuzieQ]

That was a really sad story with the Mom that died.  I hadn't heard of the real story it was based on but it's so unacceptable!  That doctor shouldn't be practicing anymore and should be in jail.  Just awful!

[rhys]

I know the US has awful rates of maternal care and death. It's really horrendous& something we all should know. We are behind so many countries & it's wrong on many levels.

The real dad/husband at the end? Got me in the feels.

[hula-la]

That was a very emotional episode for me. I hadn't heard of Kira Johnson, so had to look up her story  https://www.monstersandcritics.com/smallscreen/kira-dixon-johnson-death-who-was-mom-remembered-on-the-resident/

I had originally thought that the story related to Serena Williams and her issues when giving birth, but either way, WOC are not given the same standard of care in hospitals. I'm Canadian, and just last year, we heard stories about Indigenous women being denied access to their newborns until they agree to be sterilized. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-november-13-2018-1.4902679/indigenous-women-kept-from-seeing-their-newborn-babies-until-agreeing-to-sterilization-says-lawyer-1.4902693

Edited April 16, 2019 by hula-la
Added an article about Indigenous women

[SuzieQ]

1 hour ago, hula-la said:

That was a very emotional episode for me. I hadn't heard of Kira Johnson, so had to look up her story  https://www.monstersandcritics.com/smallscreen/kira-dixon-johnson-death-who-was-mom-remembered-on-the-resident/

I'm Canadian, and just last year, we hear stories about Indigenous women being denied access to their newborns until they agree to be sterilized.

That sickens me!😥

[cathmed]

Yes, I had heard of the story and as Mena stated happen far too often with women of color, especially black women.

What disturbed me is that they wanted to form a committee (they already have the M & M Board) to insure this doesn't recur in the future.  However, they very briefly mentioned implicit bias, which was at the crux of this, and really didn't do anything to the doctor or nurse, e.g., reprimand, privileges revoked (for dr.) dismissal, etc.  So, for me, that was a big miss.   If you were a person of color watching this, you knew immediately something bad would happen to the mother when he questioned Devon about "how long had he been in this country".

Connic - I can't figure out what Nic's problem is or her reluctance/ambivalence to be with Conrad.  I thought they had hashed out their differences/issues but we're now back on this circuitous insanity path.  He's been with her through thick and thin and why she believes he won't be supportive is beyond me.   I felt for him.    Maybe since the show has been renewed, the want more angst between them or the dreaded triangle *sigh*

This episode reminded me of a very similar and recent storyline on two other medical shows just a few weeks ago, i.e., Chicago Med - Nic possibly donating a kidney to her sister but CM was Maggie donating her kidney to a virtual stranger who used to live in the neighborhood, and New Amsterdam but Mena holding her fingers in the opening/hole of the heart so patient wouldn't bleed out   Do these shows have any original ideas??

Edited April 23, 2019 by cathmed

[Madding crowd]

I liked the storyline of the poor woman who was denied proper care ( I didn’t like that it happened of course). One thing I didn’t understand is why the head of hospital and elite cardio surgeon would be receiving accident victims in the ER. Don’t they have emergency/trauma staff? I seriously doubt Dr Bell would be hanging around the ER.

Several things bug me about Nik but one is we almost never seeing her actually touching a patient. It’s almost like she is a supervisor of all the doctors and just wanders around giving orders. 

[twoods]

Maybe Austin was on the trauma team that day, or since there was a GSW to the chest they paged him beforehand. Then they paged Trauma in the OR when they saw all that internal bleeding.

That poor dad and kids living without the mom because of negligence. It sickens me every day how so many women die from childbirth in such a rich country. Loved Devon’s wtf face when the OB asked him how long he’s been in the US. He’s never had Indian residents before?

I don’t like this 180 they are doing on Nik’s hesitation to be with Conrad strictly for angst. I’m also not a fan of Nik’s sister so her having kidney failure didn’t bring on as much emotion as the other two storylines.

Edited April 16, 2019 by twoods

[rhys]

I'm posting using a Kindle& don't know how to drag info. But googling info on U.S. maternal statistics is dismal. We are behind Kazakhstan. Crikey. 

[jewel21]

Very sad episode. I wasn't aware of the woman who this episode was based on and feel terrible for her and her family. It never should have happened. Nic is getting on my nerves. She obviously loves Conrad so just move in with him already. Sheesh. I am not a fan of Nic's sister and feel like if she did get a kidney from Nic, she would end up relapsing and the kidney would be wasted. 

[preeya]

29 minutes ago, jewel21 said:

I am not a fan of Nic's sister and feel like if she did get a kidney from Nic, she would end up relapsing and the kidney would be wasted. 

Where's Arnie Becker (Corbin Bernsen) when you really need him?

Do ya think this loser Dad will give his kidney to his daughter?

[jewel21]

3 hours ago, preeya said:

Where's Arnie Becker (Corbin Bernsen) when you really need him?

Do ya think this loser Dad will give his kidney to his daughter?

Dunno, I don't really see him going through with it, although I guess they could always have him donate and then die from surgical complications to make it more dramatic. 

[Jlina]

Not a fan.  Ugh, ugly real life in my make believe hospital!  Just no.  Save it for dateline or something.  That said, it took me awhile to even catch the racist tone.  My mother was a nurse for 13 years at the county hospital and nothing remotely like this ever happened. In Houston, at Ben Taub.  I spent a lot of time there.  So please show no more preaching to the audience for educational purposes!  All the ripped from the headlines fiction is enough for me.

I think the rest of the season focuses on organ donation....plenty of drama there.  Nic feeling pressured by Conrad is absurd, but he totally deserves to move on.  New boundaries?  That's what you call it when you have a break up fight now?  O.M.G!  That was hilarious to me.

Not nearly enough cops and questions about the shooting.  

[Rap541]

16 minutes ago, Jlina said:

Not a fan.  Ugh, ugly real life in my make believe hospital!  Just no.  Save it for dateline or something.  That said, it took me awhile to even catch the racist tone.  My mother was a nurse for 13 years at the county hospital and nothing remotely like this ever happened. In Houston, at Ben Taub.  I spent a lot of time there.  So please show no more preaching to the audience for educational purposes!  All the ripped from the headlines fiction is enough for me.

Agreed. The actual victim's story was horrifying and deserves to be heard so I won't say that they shouldn't have done it. But... it was awkward and hamhanded and I knew that black female patient was a deader as soon as the Ob-gyn doc was merrily telling Pravesh to scrub in on a C-section because that only happens in a fantasy world where lawsuits don't happen.  If they were going to tell it, I just wish they put it in the plotline of the show with a little bit of flair and build up. T

[alexvillage]

16 hours ago, cathmed said:

What disturbed me is that they wanted to form a committee (they already have the M & M Board) to insure this doesn't recur in the future.  However, they very briefly mentioned implicit bias, which was at the crux of this, and really didn't do anything to the doctor or nurse, e.g., reprimand, privileges revoked (for dr.) dismissal, etc.  So, for me, that was a big miss.   If you were a person of color watching this, you knew immediately something bad would happen to the mother when he questioned Devon about "how long had he been in this country".

I get your point but I think the fact that nothing was actually done - except the feel good promises of doing better - is what happens in real life. I would have preferred that they just did't do anything, it would ring true and not white-wash the whole thing.

15 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

One thing I didn’t understand is why the head of hospital and elite cardio surgeon would be receiving accident victims in the ER. Don’t they have emergency/trauma staff? I seriously doubt Dr Bell would be hanging around the ER.

TV Shows do this all the time. Top surgeons performing emergency surgery, not having to book an ER, etc. I guess hospitals do have surgeons on call, but I don't think they would use two of their top on one surgery (plus another two on another one). It is just for the drama. 

6 hours ago, Jlina said:

Not a fan.  Ugh, ugly real life in my make believe hospital!  Just no.  Save it for dateline or something.  That said, it took me awhile to even catch the racist tone.  My mother was a nurse for 13 years at the county hospital and nothing remotely like this ever happened. In Houston, at Ben Taub.  I spent a lot of time there.  So please show no more preaching to the audience for educational purposes!  All the ripped from the headlines fiction is enough for me

If it made you uncomfortable I call it a win. It happens, it is a fact. Privileged experiences need to be recognized as privilege, otherwise nothing will change for the people who are actually dying for lack of care based on discrimination. 

16 hours ago, cathmed said:

Connic

I am so not interested on the "love story" and bad acting/bad plot that it took me a while to understand what this means, haha.

[Efzee]

Damn, but the PSA was strong in this one. We already know Pravesh (sp?) interferes with everything so I wasn't surprised to see him being up in everyone's business being his righteous self despite being an intern or second year resident.

But Mina crying really took me out of the story. I get that it was an emotional moment to tell the father his wife had died,  but her reaction was very OOC in my opinion. Felt like I was watching the actress, not the character.

I've always enjoyed the subtle way this show tells hospital stories, where a lot of the focus is on the business side of running a hospital in the US rather than the medical stuff (tons of things they get wrong, although they seem to have more surgery details and close ups this season) and how there are corrupt doctors/CEOs/pharmaceutical companies and so. It really sets it apart from most (current) US medical dramas, but it the other episodes are as PSA-heavy as this one then I'm out.

Wouldn't be surprised if Americans are one of the few people in the western world who don't know how bad their statistics for pregnant women and newborns are.

[perkie1968]

Was there supposed to be time passing between the last episode and this one?  The last episode there is a ginormous blizzard, so big that Dr Theo takes 487 hours to walk to the hospital to help Mina who no longer needed his help when he got there.  Then Nic and Conrad decide they need to discuss their personal stuff "tomorrow night".  

This episode starts with Conrad coming to Nic's house,on a bike, for that discussion, on a beautiful sunny day, with fully green grass and foliage everywhere,.  Was that a blooper?  Or are we to assume that they went on with their lives for several months, before having the conversation about their personal life? 

[Marci]

5 hours ago, Efzee said:

Wouldn't be surprised if Americans are one of the few people in the western world who don't know how bad their statistics for pregnant women and newborns are.

Wouldn’t be surprised if people don’t understand propaganda when they see it.

Let’s compare United States and Japan.

United States:  14 childbearth deaths of mother per 100,000

Japan:  2 childbearth deaths of mother per 100,000

United States number of births:  3,800,000 

Japan number of births: 941,000

What does this actually mean? 

It means roughly about 546 mothers died during childbearth in the United States out of 3,800,000.

It means roughly about 19 mothers died during childbearth in Japan out of 941,000.

And most importantly, it means, Torture numbers long enough and they will admit to anything.

5 hours ago, Efzee said:

Wouldn't be surprised if Americans are one of the few people in the western world who don't know how bad their statistics for pregnant women and newborns are.

[Jlina]

Quote

If it made you uncomfortable I call it a win. It

Eh, the Blacklist made me uncomfortable last Friday with how cliched the evil Lady Luck was.  Not a good trait in a TV show imo.  Ben Taub is one of only two level one trauma centers in Houston, so I base my opinions on 13 years of observation...real life is so much better than proselytizing at me from an entertainment TV show. 🙂

i agree with the Mina crying observation, this episode in the overall story arc was far below my expectations.  Slightly above the Valentine's day one.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Jlina
Ben not been

[Texasmom1970]

Can Nic run away to another country with clinic doctor please! She has gotten on my last nerve.

[Emily Thrace]

4 hours ago, Marci said:

Wouldn’t be surprised if people don’t understand propaganda when they see it.

Let’s compare United States and Japan.

United States:  14 childbearth deaths of mother per 100,000

Japan:  2 childbearth deaths of mother per 100,000

United States number of births:  3,800,000 

Japan number of births: 941,000

What does this actually mean? 

It means roughly about 546 mothers died during childbearth in the United States out of 3,800,000.

It means roughly about 19 mothers died during childbearth in Japan out of 941,000.

And most importantly, it means, Torture numbers long enough and they will admit to anything.

That still doesn't explain why it disproportionatly affects black women and Native women. The numbers actually get worse if you separate by income level with middle class black women having some of the worst outcomes. That was one of the points of the episode that these aren't just numbers thier women and mothers and the only real explanation we have is thier race.

I love that the show went in so hard on this issue. Most shows haven't even touched on it or left out the racial aspect (sideyes Grey's).  The Resident much like its lead character isn't afraid to ruffle feathers and its better for it.

[Rap541]

12 hours ago, Efzee said:

But Mina crying really took me out of the story. I get that it was an emotional moment to tell the father his wife had died,  but her reaction was very OOC in my opinion. Felt like I was watching the actress, not the character.

Agreed. Contrast this scene with the whole pilot where Mina is a rather cold automaton who tells people their relatives lived or died with the same tone of voice.

I don't mind an after school special sort of episode - the actual case involved was horrifying and while I knew the statistics, I do think it was good to present the horror to the audience - but let's keep the plot consistent with the show's characters and plots. 

I'm willing to bet we NEVER see the aftermath of this storyline. Thats why I am disappointed. 

[twoods]

Cedars sinai (where the real life woman died) is actually a very nice hospital in LA, so it was jarring to me that something like this happened there. They have private rooms and luxury suites, yet this woman’s symptoms were ignored.

People look at the statistics and automatically think it’s because of poorer care (hospitals, access to care, etc) but this happened in a very good hospital and what is usually overlooked is the comparison between middle class black vs white (as what is mentioned above by @Emily Thrace.) Why is that? It should be alarming to hospitals all over the country why this continues to happen, and I hope that they are figuring out what needs to be done. I don’t think this is propaganda at all.

I would love to see follow up on this story. Dad suing, or coming in the ER with a sick baby or kid and looking emotionally drained. The writers have been decent with follow ups on certain storylines so maybe they will surprise us? (doubtful)

That would suck if Nik donates the kidney, her sister relapses and screws up that kidney, and then Nik gets some rare autoimmune or interstitial kidney disease and is screwed. You know this has season three angst all over it. Will Conrad donafe a kidney? Will the deadbeat dad step in? Tune in folks!

Edited April 18, 2019 by twoods

[izabella]

12 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

That still doesn't explain why it disproportionatly affects black women and Native women. The numbers actually get worse if you separate by income level with middle class black women having some of the worst outcomes. That was one of the points of the episode that these aren't just numbers thier women and mothers and the only real explanation we have is thier race.

I love that the show went in so hard on this issue. Most shows haven't even touched on it or left out the racial aspect (sideyes Grey's).  The Resident much like its lead character isn't afraid to ruffle feathers and its better for it.

It's a worthy issue for this show to tackle since it is meant to tackle the problems in our health care system, and one of the reasons I like this show even though I've seen so many medical dramas.   It's disgraceful that women are kind of left to fend for themselves after the birth, and a much bigger disgrace that minority women have it even worse and are discriminated against, whether intentionally or unconsciously.  We can do better, so I'm glad they highlighted the problem.

I'm also glad they highlighted the drug trials problem via Nic's sister.  Her kidneys are shot because of the drug trial.  I wish they had pointed out that most research and drug trials are done on men, not women, and thus their results are skewed and do not necessarily have the same result in women.  Check out statin drugs for high cholesterol, for example.  They don't really change the odds of women getting heart disease or having a heart attack - unlike with men - yet women are prescribed statins willy-nilly anyway.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

Quote

It's a worthy issue for this show to tackle since it is meant to tackle the problems in our health care system, and one of the reasons I like this show even though I've seen so many medical dramas.  

Absolutely. I'd be fine with them basing all of their stories on real-life medical and insurance stories.  I'd also be fine with an official, issue appropriate PSA at the end of the episode.  People in this country need to be educated about the system.  They also need to educate themselves on where their elected representatives stand on health care.

Quote

Can Nic run away to another country with clinic doctor please! She has gotten on my last nerve.

THIS!  If you are afraid of commitment, SAY IT!  If you don't want to have kids and you know that Conrad does, do the mature and loving thing and let him go.

[alexvillage]

21 hours ago, Jlina said:

Eh, the Blacklist made me uncomfortable last Friday with how cliched the evil Lady Luck was.  Not a good trait in a TV show imo.  Ben Taub is one of only two level one trauma centers in Houston, so I base my opinions on 13 years of observation...real life is so much better than proselytizing at me from an entertainment TV show. 🙂

Your observations are possibly based on your own privileges. That's not a character fail, it is just something that happens to all of us. Maybe you didn't see, or noticed, anything "wrong" because it didn't affect you directly. I missed a lot of obvious discrimination against disabled people until I got involved with the disability community. Now I can spot the most nuanced, seemingly small act of discrimination. That helps to inform me about other minorities.

What happened to the character happens not once in a while. It happens a lot, everywhere, big hospitals and smaller ones.

[Jlina]

3 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Your observations are possibly based on your own privileges.

What happened to the character happens not once in a while. It happens a lot, everywhere, big hospitals and smaller ones.

Okay I'm going to get real here; Ben Taub is a county hospital!  My mother was one of only three white nurses on the floor!  I don't see how that can translate to any kind of "privilege" unless maybe the fact that I didn't experience prejudice from the black people is because I was white?? AND....

the fact that this happened at a "nice" hospital is exactly the point!! If it happened with a black nurse to a black woman no one could call "bias."  Is there actually evidence of race issues here in this instance - and statistically for the whole of America? 

Who's assigning correlation with causation or causation with correlation?  The fact that more black mothers die is NOT indicative of racial abuse.  It could be they have more children per capita, they are poorer and therefore get sub par treatment, etc.

And, finally "implicit" bias has no credible scientific proof.  It's called pseudo science on the web.  I actually never thought about the fact that Austin and Mina were black until this episode.  So....yeah; where's my implicit bias?  And, in terms of the show - Devon would've ran to his "A" team of influencers the moment the doctor ignored him.  It was completely out of character.

But my only point prior has been I don't want my tv shows to preach to me.  I was pretty sure as soon as the wife was so adorable that something bad was going to happen.  And....it would have been so much more effective if they - in their obvious bias! - had had the family in the car shooting be black also.  It was propaganda, clear and plain.

Also the guy left his newborn baby alone beside an empty hospital bed for the entire length of surgery?!  No matter what color he is, that's crap parenting!

[twoods]

The baby wouldn’t be by itself in a room- it was probably in the nursery. Babies stay there if the parent has been discharged earlier or if they are in surgery/sick. The dad’s priority was his sick wife who was in surgery. If he was taking care of the baby and not waiting for the surgeons he would be considered a “crappy husband.” 

[Jlina]

24 minutes ago, twoods said:

The baby wouldn’t be by itself in a room- it was probably in the nursery. Babies stay there if the parent has been discharged earlier or if they are in surgery/sick. The dad’s priority was his sick wife who was in surgery. If he was taking care of the baby and not waiting for the surgeons he would be considered a “crappy husband.” 

Yeah, I know this but the show assumed I'd guess this.  What it actually showed was him running out of the room and leaving the baby and never going back.  Show, don't tell (or assume).  If she as she was dying had been that neglected how long might one assume that baby would lay there in the empty room?  No nurse came in.

[twoods]

You’re right. It’s scenes like these that make me wonder how much they consult actual medical professionals. 

[alexvillage]

9 hours ago, Jlina said:

Okay I'm going to get real here; Ben Taub is a county hospital!  My mother was one of only three white nurses on the floor!  I don't see how that can translate to any kind of "privilege" unless maybe the fact that I didn't experience prejudice from the black people is because I was white?? AND....

the fact that this happened at a "nice" hospital is exactly the point!! If it happened with a black nurse to a black woman no one could call "bias."  Is there actually evidence of race issues here in this instance - and statistically for the whole of America? 

Who's assigning correlation with causation or causation with correlation?  The fact that more black mothers die is NOT indicative of racial abuse.  It could be they have more children per capita, they are poorer and therefore get sub par treatment, etc.

And, finally "implicit" bias has no credible scientific proof.  It's called pseudo science on the web.  I actually never thought about the fact that Austin and Mina were black until this episode.  So....yeah; where's my implicit bias?  And, in terms of the show - Devon would've ran to his "A" team of influencers the moment the doctor ignored him.  It was completely out of character.

But my only point prior has been I don't want my tv shows to preach to me.  I was pretty sure as soon as the wife was so adorable that something bad was going to happen.  And....it would have been so much more effective if they - in their obvious bias! - had had the family in the car shooting be black also.  It was propaganda, clear and plain.

Also the guy left his newborn baby alone beside an empty hospital bed for the entire length of surgery?!  No matter what color he is, that's crap parenting!

You won't see me defending the writing choices this show makes very often. The writers are simply not good. Base a story on something that really happened is relatively easy and even then they mess up.

The point of privilege is that it exists, and it is not something that people use out of spite. It is something that is "gifted" to us according to our assigned position based on  societal values, which are not based on equality. And internalized ableism exists. A black nurse could very well treat a black person in a very bad way, since the problem is systemic.

This show does have a preachy component and they miss the mark 98% of the time. The board meeting with the "promises" of doing better and improving equality was one of those *let's end this sad story in a positive note because our time for the episode is up*. In that point, I do agree with you, only that I don't want episodes that tell a real story to preach kumbaya to me (at least they showed the real patient and husband at the end).

[Court]

On 4/16/2019 at 2:47 PM, cathmed said:

Yes, I had her of the story and as Mena stated happen far too often with women of color, especially black women.

What disturbed me is that they wanted to form a committee (they already have the M & M Board) to insure this doesn't recur in the future.  However, they very briefly mentioned implicit bias, which was at the crux of this, and really didn't do anything to the doctor or nurse, e.g., reprimand, privileges revoked (for dr.) dismissal, etc.  So, for me, that was a big miss.   If you were a person of color watching this, you knew immediately something bad would happen to the mother when he questioned Devon about "how long had he been in this country".

Connic - I can't figure out what Nic's problem is or her reluctance/ambivalence to be with Conrad.  I thought they had hashed out their differences/issues but we're now back on this circuitous insanity path.  He's been with her through thick and thin and why she believes he won't be supportive is beyond me.   I felt for him.    Maybe since the show has been renewed, the want more angst between them or the dreaded triangle *sigh*

This episode reminded me of a very similar and recent storyline on two other medical shows just a few weeks ago, i.e., Chicago Med - Nic possibly donating a kidney to her sister but CM was Maggie donating her kidney to a virtual stranger who used to live in the neighborhood, and New Amsterdam but Mena holding her fingers in the opening/hole of the heart so patient wouldn't bleed out   Do these shows have any original ideas??

I'm not even a POC and I knew that something terrible was going to happen. It was obvious. It was devastating and it didn't have to happen. Unconscious bias is a real thing. Acknowledging it is uncomfortable but it must be done. 

The nurse shouldn't have brushed off the husband's concern without even examining the patient either. 

That dad/husband had me bawling.

[Court]

On 4/17/2019 at 4:12 PM, perkie1968 said:

Was there supposed to be time passing between the last episode and this one?  The last episode there is a ginormous blizzard, so big that Dr Theo takes 487 hours to walk to the hospital to help Mina who no longer needed his help when he got there.  Then Nic and Conrad decide they need to discuss their personal stuff "tomorrow night".  

This episode starts with Conrad coming to Nic's house,on a bike, for that discussion, on a beautiful sunny day, with fully green grass and foliage everywhere,.  Was that a blooper?  Or are we to assume that they went on with their lives for several months, before having the conversation about their personal life? 

That weather is Atlanta for you. 

[perkie1968]

8 hours ago, Court said:

That weather is Atlanta for you. 

Really??!!  A ginormous blizzard on Monday then on Tuesday, all the snow has melted and the grass and trees are lush and green? That's quite a weather disparency!!

[perkie1968]

8 hours ago, Court said:

The nurse shouldn't have brushed off the husband's concern without even examining the patient either. 

This.  While I"m not discounting the racial aspect, what I saw was a nurse, who was busy and understaffed, who was blaming everything on the "she just had a baby" excuse.  I've been in a maternity ward, twice and let me tell you, that excuse gets thrown around A LOT.  Yes, 95% of the complaints of pain and whatnot is because we've just had a baby, but there is a small percentage that isn't, like in this case.  Get up, go to the room check on the woman, do your job.  

Also, Devin holds a little blame too, in the sense that he ended up using the doppler/ultrasound/thingy to see the blood in her abdomen, but why didn't he do that sooner.  The machine was right there in her room,.  When he saw the blood in the catheter bag the first time, why didn't he check her out.  

So many mistakes all around.  

[Mellowyellow]

I avoided this episode for a week because I knew it would have me bawling and it did. That poor man left alone to raise 2 kids. Those poor kids, the course of their lives has changed completely. What really disturbed me was that the people in this episode (and the true story in real life) seemed fairly well off and could afford proper hospital and medical care. It's giving my imagination all kinds of scope to wonder (and dread) what the level of care is like for those who are not even in this income bracket. 

I just want to slap Nic's sister after watching everything else in this episode. You dumbass, I don't care about you and your kidneys. Quit whining and go away. I really hope they end this quickly (or this season if they must drag it out) and give Nic a better plot. I like Emily VanCamp and I think her character deserves better than to be saddled with the garbage sister/garbage dad storyline.

I think it was a good episode to throw in the Connic breakup if they insist on going there. I was too caught up in the rest of the ep to let it bother me. I think Nic has some issues that she needs to rise from herself and I think Conrad was right to break up. It seemed to me if she had said to him that she needed more time and could he wait, he would have waited for her. Instead she was really defensive and almost sullen. But I reckon that's coming from whatever issues she's got going on. 

[Marci]

On 4/17/2019 at 11:56 PM, Emily Thrace said:

That still doesn't explain why it disproportionatly affects black women and Native women. The numbers actually get worse if you separate by income level with middle class black women having some of the worst outcomes. That was one of the points of the episode that these aren't just numbers thier women and mothers and the only real explanation we have is thier race.

Yes, statistics doesn’t give meaning into its numbers, it just reports them. And when they are reported along with some message, that is when lines become blurred. The episode was pushing towards race being the meaning of the numbers. There is a lot to learn in any of these issues, and when you have a dumb-ass show putting ideas in people’s heads on a subject so emotional as death during childbirth, like this show did, I take exception to the simplistic approach which confuses more than educates.

[greyflannel]

This episode reminded me of a story I read a couple of years ago. The mother in that case was a neonatal nurse who gave birth in the hospital she worked in. It seems like maybe too many complaints are brushed off as "normal". The story is below. It goes without saying that it's a sad story.

https://www.rd.com/health/healthcare/american-women-die-childbirth/

[Avabelle]

That episode broke my heart. It was devastating. The husband and wife broke my heart. Her terror, the ignorance of the system. A brilliantly written and acted episode. 

I’ll also give it points for managing to get the point across without turning completely overdoing it like Greys does. 

[Paloma]

On 4/23/2019 at 8:42 AM, Mellowyellow said:

What really disturbed me was that the people in this episode (and the true story in real life) seemed fairly well off and could afford proper hospital and medical care. It's giving my imagination all kinds of scope to wonder (and dread) what the level of care is like for those who are not even in this income bracket. 

Both the fictional story and the true story were tragic, but in the fictional story I kept asking why there was only one OB on the maternity ward of a supposedly good and well-funded hospital. And that OB would be unavailable for other complications or births while in surgery. Shouldn't there have been another OB on duty or on call, or at least an OB resident who could help? It seemed unrealistic, but maybe it is realistic and that's part of the reason why the US has such a poor record of maternal mortality.