Season 5: Speculation

[benteen]

Well, it was mentioned that Pycelle contacted Ser Kevan and offered him the Hand of the King job.  So it's a safe-bet they'll both be killed by Varys, who got name-dropped tonight.  Whether Olenna will turn up again remains to be seen although I suspect she will with both her grandchildren still in custody.

[Dev F]

So I've been thinking about what the show is going to do to replace the Connington/Young Griff storyline, which at this point has obviously been excised. My theory at the beginning of the season was that Trystane would ultimately be revealed to be fAegon, but they haven't spent nearly enough time on him for that to make much sense. I assume the Dorne storyline will still end with Doran revealing that he's secretly a Targaryen supporter, so his forces could take the place of fAegon's in paving the way for Dany. Perhaps he'll be the one who supports marrying Myrcella to Trystane to start a war, which is why he's been cool to the Sand Snakes' "Let's do something stupid and violent to start a war!" plan.

 

In any case, there are a lot of ways that part of the storyline could play out and render the military aspects of the fAegon story unnecessary, so that wasn't really what was puzzing me. What really puzzled me is how you replace fAegon's role in Varys's "For the realm" machinations. Regardless of whether fAegon is actually a Blackfyre whom Illyrio is trying to install on the throne, it's clear from the ADWD epilogue that Varys actually does care about the good of the realm and supports fAegon's ascension at least in part because he believes that he's been raised to be a better sort of ruler.

 

The problem is, with Uncle Kevan back in the picture, it seems almost certain that the King's Landing stuff is going to end with his death at Varys's hands -- but it doesn't make sense for the Spider to give the same sort of speech about Dany. She wasn't raised under Varys's supervision to be a fair and just ruler; for all he knows, she'd be a really shitty queen. So why would he kill a good man like Kevan if he didn't have reason to trust that the alternative would be worth the sacrifice?

 

Finally I realized: he has no reason to give that speech about Dany, but he has every reason to give it about Tyrion. It would make a certain amount of sense for him to set in motion the final collapse of House Lannister once he realizes that the one man with the temperament to rule fairly and justly has been installed as Dany's principal adviser. It's exactly the kind of substitution the series has tended to rely on -- instead of Varys trusting some peripheral character because of a bunch of complicated stuff that happened off screen, he trusts a main character because of all the things that happened between them over the course of the series.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Dev F

[FemmyV]

Let's say Tristane is Aegon; if Myrcella marries him and he ascends, House Lannister remains relevant. Cersei gets to continue being a Queen Mother, and Jaime gets to keep the life he wants.

 

What I want to see this season, but we probably won't, maybe season 6 if lucky, are some ravens making their way to the Wall and Mereen, respectively. In truth, I'm kind of stumped Maester Aemon failed to mention how handy the dragons could be on the Wall. Still, Tyrion is one character who knows both Jon AND Dany now. I'd hope that when he finds out what Jon is facing on the Wall, he may think it a good idea to get those two in the same room.

Let's say Tristane is Aegon; if Myrcella marries him and he ascends, House Lannister remains relevant. Cersei gets to continue being a Queen Mother, and Jaime gets to keep the life he wants.

 

What I want to see this season, but we probably won't, maybe season 6 if lucky, are some ravens making their way to the Wall and Mereen, respectively. In truth, I'm kind of stumped Maester Aemon failed to mention how handy the dragons could be on the Wall. Still, Tyrion is one character who knows both Jon AND Dany now. I'd hope that when he finds out what Jon is facing on the Wall, he may think it a good idea to get those two in the same room.

 

Now, we're set up for Jon / Dany vs Myrcella/Tristane. Or maybe that's just too easy.

[Oscirus]

What a big fail that speculation was. I didn't think that would happen but it was fun thinking outside of the box. I guess that D and D really don't care about the non Cersei portion of King's landing.

 

Finally I realized: he has no reason to give that speech about Dany, but he has every reason to give it about Tyrion. It would make a certain amount of sense for him to set in motion the final collapse of House Lannister once he realizes that the one man with the temperament to rule fairly and justly has been installed as Dany's principal adviser. It's exactly the kind of substitution the series has tended to rely on -- instead of Varys trusting some peripheral character because of a bunch of complicated stuff that happened off screen, he trusts a main character because of all the things that happened between them over the course of the series.

 

That would lend credence to his conversation with Tyrion about how men like them don't like staying inside the box. If anything, tonight showed us that Tyrion knows what has to be done in order to be a good king, but he just has to be willing to accept the responsibilities.

 

So  the Ramsey with twenty men plan is interesting and quite frightening. Ramsey's way of teaching people lessons is to flay them.  I suspect that whatever Ramsey has planned for Stannis will be successful so, yea, yikes.

 

It bugs me that this story is over halfway done and I still can't figure out where Arya fits in the endgame. 

 

 

[Notwisconsin]

There are still two books to go. Two seasons too. Lots can happen.

[ElizaD]

One of the things that annoyed me about ADWD was the feeling that the book and the plots of the POVs were unfinished. At least Jon's final chapter was a proper cliffhanger, but not having either of the two battles felt like getting the Blackwater buildup x2 without any actual battle and resolution. I thought the show could fix that and have at least one battle this season, but the summaries of the last two episodes have made me feel that, unfortunately, we might get the dull book endings. Stannis gets Sansa/Theon but the Boltons still live. Dany runs into the Dothraki. Cersei walks. Jaime leaves with Myrcella. Jon is stabbed. Arya is still in Braavos. Maybe Tyrion gets to imprison Hizdahr and that's the end of the Sons of the Harpy on the show, with the battle cut so that everyone just waits for Dany to return to Meereen in season 6.

[Tryangle]

I wonder if Jorah will take the Quentyn route and try to talk with one of the dragons, as a last ditch desperation move to show he's fully behind Dany...

 

With the same fiery finish (which may be more merciful than turning to a Stoneman).

[Winnief]

I'm worried about how long Dany's sojourn from Mereen will be but I'm fully confident we will get the full battle of Mereen on screen unlike the books.  I also think we'll get Stannis Vs. Ramsay this season as well. 

 

Not sure either way whether Jon will be resurrected this season or not.  I hope he will be though, simply because that kind of cliff hanger over a 10 month period, (when everyone will know that Harrington is returning,) just wouldn't work.  I've head speculation that Mel will do a ritual to bring Stannis back to life in the name of AA, and will be puzzled when it doesn't work...then we flash to Jon Snow miraculously coming back to life. 

 

Also will the Big Reveal be this season or next season?  They've done all the necessary set-up for this season-heck even the Unsullied are now getting suspicious to the truth, but they've got only two episodes left and a LOT to pack in there.

[Pogojoco]

So...

 

Maybe a call for Valyrian steel is going to get some things going story wise- considering   Jon Snow just confirmed they do the same thing as dragonglass (which is merely speculated in the book so far.)

 

When you look at whose got them, things get interesting.

 

Apparently, 200 weapons kicking around Westeros- and some include knives and axes.

 

Notable ones include-

 

Heartsbane- of House Tarly (ie Sam's, maybe explaining why they are being cast for next season)

 

Ice- which became Widow's Wail (which is Tommen's now) and Oathkeeper (which Jamie gave to Brienne) Maybe Brienne presents Sansa with it or delivers it to Jon Snow on Sansa's behalf.

 

Lady Forlorn- House Corbray in the Vale. Littlefinger is a descendant of that house. Also, the knife used to attack Bran and Catelyn, and to frame Tyrion was Valyrian steel. Littlefinger's knife, so he might have others.

 

Targaryans had a bunch that were lost in battle (Blackfyre, Dark Sister), but Dany has dragons, so she's covered.

 

The Lannisters also had several which are now lost. That's why Tywin was so possessive of Ice. He's been trying to buy some (of course, he's a Lannister) from poorer houses.

 

As for dragonglass- Stannis has tonnes at Dragonstone and it's an export from Asshai (home of Melisandre)

 

Dorne might also have some steel and glass, due to its connection with Valyria. As might Braavos, for the same reason. Probably lots of places in Essos have those types of weapons, due to the refugees from Valyria and also, it has a lot of traders and pirates.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Pogojoco

[Avaleigh]

So...

 

Maybe a call for Valyrian steel is going to get some things going story wise- considering   Jon Snow just confirmed they do the same thing as dragonglass (which is merely speculated in the book so far.)

 

When you look at whose got them, things get interesting.

 

Apparently, 200 weapons kicking around Westeros- and some include knives and axes.

 

Notable ones include-

 

Heartsbane- of House Tarly (ie Sam's, maybe explaining why they are being cast for next season)

 

Ice- which became Widow's Wail (which is Tommen's now) and Oathkeeper (which Jamie gave to Brienne) Maybe Brienne presents Sansa with it or delivers it to Jon Snow on Sansa's behalf.

 

Lady Forlorn- House Corbray in the Vale. Littlefinger is a descendant of that house. Also, the knife used to attack Bran and Catelyn, and to frame Tyrion was Valyrian steel. Littlefinger's knife, so he might have others.

 

Targaryans had a bunch that were lost in battle (Blackfyre, Dark Sister), but Dany has dragons, so she's covered.

 

The Lannisters also had several which are now lost. That's why Tywin was so possessive of Ice. He's been trying to buy some (of course, he's a Lannister) from poorer houses.

 

As for dragonglass- Stannis has tonnes at Dragonstone and it's an export from Asshai (home of Melisandre)

 

Dorne might also have some steel and glass, due to its connection with Valyria. As might Braavos, for the same reason. Probably lots of places in Essos have those types of weapons, due to the refugees from Valyria and also, it has a lot of traders and pirates.

Pogojoco, come join me in the TV vs Bookthread. 

 

We've definitely had a lot more mentions of Valyrian steel in the books than in the show. On the show there's no way there are 200+ VS weapons in the realm IMO. 

 

Not only do they not seem to have enough VS but there aren't even that many fighters who are worthy of wielding a VS blade IMO. Not in comparison to how many White Walkers there presumably are. 

 

Ah, Heartsbane is the name of the Tarly sword. Thanks, I'd just been wondering and was about to look it up. 

 

I know House Celtigar isn't on the show but I would like to see an appearance of that VS axe that they supposedly have. 

[Chris24601]

My spec regarding the burning of Shireen is that Mel will go around Stannis to the mom. Stannis and Davos will find out just as its about to occur and think they'll be too late... only Ramsey's raiding party turns up and interrupts. Meanwhile Ollie and Jon's rivals get ready to start stabbing him.

Stannis and Davos arrive and Ramsey fights and fatally stabs Stannis intercut with Jon's betrayal and stabbing. StannIs' final order to Davos is to get Shireen to safety. Ramsey leaves victorious only to learn that Sansa and Theon have escaped him and probably joined up with Brianne and Pod (with Davos/Shireen and Sansa/Theon/Brianne/Pod all headed for Castle Black.

Mel decides to pull some resurrection ritual for Stannis, using his wife as fuel (under the rationale that AA had to kill his wife to achieve his destiny) and invokes the ritual in the name of resoring AA to life. Only, after it is done, Stannis stays dead and Mel is devestated wondering what went wrong... cut to Jon's body atop a pyre that has just been lit (probably with just Sam, Gilly/Lil'Sam and Ghost present... maybe Edd and Tormund too if Ollie and the idiots don't murder them too) as he suddenly bolts upright and takes in a rasping breath... End of season (bonus points if the final scene mirrors the end of S1 by having the fire not consume Jon).

[Avaleigh]

I'm not convinced that Ramsay is going to kill Stannis in some honorable one on one but I do think agree with the stuff about Ramsay possibly riding in on Selyse and Mel trying to pull the ritual on Shireen and possible nabbing Shireen in the process. The irony being that Ramsay is temporarily saving Shireen. 

 

I also agree that Davos will be tasked with protected Shireen later on and probably Rickon as well. Everything combined to me suggests that Brienne, Sansa, Davos, Mel and Theon are going to end up safely in Winterfell at some point even if one or more of them ultimately set out again. Can they be safe with Roose and not Ramsay? Roose and Brienne already know each other. If Roose has to go out this season I don't think she's a bad choice.

[mac123x]

Mel said something to the effect of having a vision seeing herself walking the walls of Winterfell.  Not only did she not include Stannis in that vision, but who knows what the context was -- she may well be walking the walls as a captive.

 

...cut to Jon's body atop a pyre that has just been lit (probably with just Sam, Gilly/Lil'Sam and Ghost present... maybe Edd and Tormund too if Ollie and the idiots don't murder them too) as he suddenly bolts upright and takes in a rasping breath... End of season (bonus points if the final scene mirrors the end of S1 by having the fire not consume Jon).

 

That would be a nice parallel.  Plus, you know, naked Kit Harrington.

[Holmbo]

Melisandre could know that Stannis is dead and want to use Shireen to bring him back.

Oo what if Mel burns Shireen to bring back "the lord of lights chosen" and it causes Jon to be brought back at the wall?

There's some problem with that theory in that we've been told the last shot in the show is from the books. It seems like they would want to end at the wall so they're probably not gonna get to the resurrection this season. Also it's probably better for the show to not outright state that Jon is the chosen one (if he is) but rather just have different characters be motivated by the belief that he is.

[Haleth]

I'm picturing Mel shaking Stannis's body while yelling, "Wake up! Wake up, damn you!" Meanwhile, a 1000 miles away Jon suddenly sits up and pouts.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Haleth

[Tippi]

I am on pins and needles to find out how the Stannis and Shireen situation will play out.  There are so many different ways this could go!  I really enjoy Stephen Dillane and will hate to see him go out.  If he has to go, I hope that it is not at the hands of Ramsey.  And dear little Shireen!  I would like to see her to make it to the end of the series.  Hoping that in GRRM's/show's world she is not sacrificed by Stannis.  If she and Stannis survive the battle of Winterfell, I could see Stannis being killed by Brienne.

 

And somehow this all will tie in with resurrecting Jon.  What excellent storytelling.  Which ever way that it goes, it is going to tug at the heart strings.

[Avaleigh]

I'm picturing Mel shaking Stannis's body while yelling, "Wake up! Wake up, damn you!" Meanwhile, a 1000 miles away Jon suddenly sits up and pouts.

Imagine Selyse's reaction if this ends up happening? Stannis and Shireen both dead for what will seem like no purpose. 

 

I wonder if Melisandre would doubt her abilities or the Lord of Light or if she'd just instantly be able to put the pieces together that it has something to do with Jon. 

[nksarmi]

I am on pins and needles to find out how the Stannis and Shireen situation will play out.  There are so many different ways this could go!  I really enjoy Stephen Dillane and will hate to see him go out.  If he has to go, I hope that it is not at the hands of Ramsey.  And dear little Shireen!  I would like to see her to make it to the end of the series.  Hoping that in GRRM's/show's world she is not sacrificed by Stannis.  If she and Stannis survive the battle of Winterfell, I could see Stannis being killed by Brienne.

 

And somehow this all will tie in with resurrecting Jon.  What excellent storytelling.  Which ever way that it goes, it is going to tug at the heart strings.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the intended title last book is A Dream of Spring, correct?  I hope that means that whatever alliance forms is victorious and either Winter ends up being short or GRRM does a time jump to the end of Winter/the Long Night so that we can see what comes next.  And with that said, I hope Rickon and Shirleen both live and get to marry one another and rule in the North when all is said and done.

[magdalene]

Oo what if Mel burns Shireen to bring back "the lord of lights chosen" and it causes Jon to be brought back at the wall?

There's some problem with that theory in that we've been told the last shot in the show is from the books. It seems like they would want to end at the wall so they're probably not gonna get to the resurrection this season. Also it's probably better for the show to not outright state that Jon is the chosen one (if he is) but rather just have different characters be motivated by the belief that he is.

The show has never ended a season with a cliffhanger. So I am thinking Jon's fate is not going to be left in question, and the unsullied viewers won't be left to think that Jon is toast.

 

And the last shot of the season I believe is going to be Dany riding Drogon, which is from the books and would give the show another Dany and dragon themed season ender.

[Holmbo]

Season two ended in a cliffhanger.

[nksarmi]

I had to look up the season two ending to see what the cliffhanger was and honestly, I don't think that's the same thing as the Jon stabbing.  At the end of season two, viewers didn't know what would happen next or how the characters would survive, but no one was left bleeding into the snow for us to speculate if they were going to live or die.  With Jon, people have been arguing for YEARS rather or not he is even alive.  When I used to bother with Facebook, I used to see people tell non-book readers all the time that Jon dies.  Followed only for book readers to burst into an argument about rather or not that's even true.  That's Han Solo is frozen in carbonite type of cliffhanger and even George Lucas didn't make us wait this long to find out what happened next!  I really, really hope that D&D go ahead and tell us that Jon lives because this really is getting tot he point of ridiculousness to me.  Either he dies, and GRRM sucks for all these hints that Jon and the mystery of his parents mattered or he lives and is a very important character until the end.  I'm ready for the debate to end.

[Avaleigh]

So I've been thinking about how Viserion and Rhaegal end up getting release and my current speculation is that Hizdahr is going to be the one who gives the order for them to be released or killed and this results in his death.

Next guess is that Daario decides he wants one but I feel like this has zero chance of happening since he's been shown to be a pretty smart guy. He might be impulsive but he certainly doesn't seem stupid.

Could the show do anything this season to hint to the connection Tyrion might end up having with Viserion.

[mac123x]

Could the show do anything this season to hint to the connection Tyrion might end up having with Viserion.

 

the book had Viseryon briefly sit on Brown Ben Plumm's shoulder and act friendly to him.  Well, as friendly as a flying death machine can.  They could do something similar when Dany introduces Tyrion to the dragons, like V could give him a head-tilting look of curiousity, then stick his face forward to be petted like Drogon did for Dany earlier this season.  "He seems to like you."

[Holmbo]

I don't even have a shadow of doubt that Jon has a further role in the story. No way he's gone.

I don't know that viewers would feel the same though. They might not see why Jon is different from Robb or Oberyn in terms of importance in the overall story.

[ElizaD]

Oh, another scene of Shireen being adorable.

 

So I've been thinking about how Viserion and Rhaegal end up getting release and my current speculation is that Hizdahr is going to be the one who gives the order for them to be released or killed and this results in his death.

 

Maybe Hizdahr escapes the pit in 5x09 (he's missing from set photos of the chaos) and has a scene with the dragons in 5x10 where he's either roasted or escapes again but is arrested by Tyrion. I still think they'll make him the leader of the Sons because there's no one else in Show Meereen who could be their face, but good guy Hizdahr or suicidal Jorah getting killed as he releases the dragons could be kinda Quentyn-ish.

[magdalene]

I had to look up the season two ending to see what the cliffhanger was and honestly, I don't think that's the same thing as the Jon stabbing.  At the end of season two, viewers didn't know what would happen next or how the characters would survive, but no one was left bleeding into the snow for us to speculate if they were going to live or die.  With Jon, people have been arguing for YEARS rather or not he is even alive.  When I used to bother with Facebook, I used to see people tell non-book readers all the time that Jon dies.  Followed only for book readers to burst into an argument about rather or not that's even true.  That's Han Solo is frozen in carbonite type of cliffhanger and even George Lucas didn't make us wait this long to find out what happened next!  I really, really hope that D&D go ahead and tell us that Jon lives because this really is getting tot he point of ridiculousness to me.  Either he dies, and GRRM sucks for all these hints that Jon and the mystery of his parents mattered or he lives and is a very important character until the end.  I'm ready for the debate to end.

Yes, when I said no season had ended in a cliffhanger, I meant cliffhanger in the true sense - like a character literally left dangling over a cliff. Jon's fate in the books is a true cliffhanger. Fans of the character have been tortured with it for years. For that alone GRRM should get his ass in gear and finally finish the next book. The show hasn't done any cliffhanger like that in its finales.

[Maximum Taco]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the intended title last book is A Dream of Spring, correct?  I hope that means that whatever alliance forms is victorious and either Winter ends up being short or GRRM does a time jump to the end of Winter/the Long Night so that we can see what comes next.  And with that said, I hope Rickon and Shirleen both live and get to marry one another and rule in the North when all is said and done.

 

Very optimistic.

 

I went the opposite route. It's A Dream of Spring, so i always figured we'd leave our surviving heroes in the throes of Winter, left with only the dreams of Spring. Or perhaps the Winter will stretch on and on and finally Bran would have a prophetic dream that Spring is finally coming to end the series.

 

Winter will probably arrive this season, I don't expect it to lift until late in season 7, if at all.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[Skeeter22]

It's not going to be much of a cliffhanger. It'll be very obvious whether or not Kit Harrington is filming next season. I don't think Jon's "death" is any more shocking than when Sam or Dean die on Supernatural. Everyone knows it won't count.

[benteen]

It's amazing that it has been YEARS since Jon was stabbed by the Night's Watch and it's still dangling. 

Edited June 5, 2015 by benteen

[FemmyV]

At this point, it looks like the real nail-biting will be over what color eyes Jon will have upon revival.

[mac123x]

S05.09 Episode description:

 

Stannis faces a difficult decision; Jon returns to the Wall; Mace visits the Iron Bank; Arya encounters someone from her past; Dany oversees a celebration of athleticism.

 

1.  Stannis's decision:  either a) when / how to attack Winterfell or b) burning / don't burn Shireen.  Ugh.

2.  Jon's return to the Wall:  Seen in the previews, his confrontation with Thorne over letting the Free Folk through.  Though it could include Ollie getting all stabby.

3.  Mace visits the Iron Bank.  Oh, that could be hysterial, watching him deal with the banker that Stannis and Davos talked to.  Talk about someone who's out of his depth.

4.  Arya encounters someone from her past:  Meryn Trant, have a nice death

5.  Dany opens the fighting pits.  Will this include Drogon's special guest appearance and her absconding on his back?

[magdalene]

Is there a description for episode 10 available?

Found it!

 

Episode #50: “Mother’s Mercy” (season finale)

Debut: SUNDAY, JUNE 14 (9:00-10:00 p.m.)

Stannis marches. Dany is surrounded by strangers. Cersei (Lena Headey) seeks forgiveness. Jon is challenged.
Written by David Benioff & D.B. Weiss; directed by David Nutter.

 

Well, if Jon only "dies" in 10 than his fate could be left a cliffhanger. And if Dany is now surrounded by strangers than the Drogon ride must happen in 9.  Bleh.

Edited June 5, 2015 by magdalene

[Haleth]

I didn't think they'd do both Dany's ride and Jon's stabbing in the same episode so I was curious which would end the season. Looks like the stabbing will be the last scene. The fact that Stannis marches in 10 doesn't bode well for sweet little Shireen.

[WearyTraveler]

Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part but if they are not closing the season with Dany riding Drogon, which is as powerful as images go, how will they close it?  I agree with many others that leaving it at Jon's stabbing seems silly, since news of Harington filming will spread fairly quickly; so, could it be that they close the season with a Jon resurrection?

 

I know they said they would close with a scene from the books, but, did they specify what book?  Could it be a scene from the as of yet unpublished Winds of Winter?

Edited June 6, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[nksarmi]

Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part but if they are not closing the season with Dany riding Drogon, which is as powerful as images go, how will they close it?  I agree with many others that leaving it at Jon's stabbing seems silly, since news of Harington filming will spread fairly quickly; so, could it be that they close the season with a Jon resurrection?

 

I know they said they would close with a scene from the books, but, did they specify what book?  Could it be a scene from the as of yet unpublished Winds of Winter?

I certainly hope so because I really want to see Jon's resurrection, but if they want to mess with us, they will have him keep his eyes closed so we have to speculate for months about rather he was turned into a white walker or resurrected ala Dany style to be AA reborn.  But even if they do that, at least D&D will have changed the conversation from IF he lives to HOW.

[The Mormegil]

The Final scene is probably Dany surrounded by Dothraki.

 

Fits the episode description and is a scene from the books.

[sunflower]

The Final scene is probably Dany surrounded by Dothraki.

Fits the episode description and is a scene from the books.

 

 

I'm tired of ending Dany scenes, I'm not a fan, and I believe Jon Snow/The North deserves the ending scene.  Yeah, it's a cliffhanger, but so what, if people know Kit is coming back?  Doesn't the Unsullied deserve, in a good way, the same ending the book readers received and had to wait, still waiting, 5+ years for resolution?  

 

The warging is known or at least thought of by the unsullied.  I'm sure Ghost will be around the scene, and if they don't want pure cliffhanger, they can have Jon's eyes go white, as the unsullied has seen happen with Bran.  I want an ending concentrated on the North.  The ending of the Dothraki horde isn't bad, but they should do that scene, go to Varys or whoever is killing Kevan with winter being announced officially and then move North to the Wall for the cliffhanger.  

 

That's my Dream of Spring, anyway.

[WearyTraveler]

There would be no dramatic tension, IMO, if they end the season with Dany surrounded by Dothraki.  She has Drogon, she rode him, it will be assumed she's finally figured out how to command a fully grown dragon.  What are the Dothraki going to do? Attack her and Drogon? Fat chance! And if they attack, Drogon will fry them.  So, people will figure out Dany will get the Khalasar Vyseris thought he'd get, and include them in her army when she goes to Westeros.  Big deal.

 

That ending wouldn't leave me excited. But, oh well, if that's what they're doing, so be it.

Edited June 6, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[Oscirus]

Playing devil's advocate here, though I assume this could happen in this episode, couldn't the strangers referenced in that announcement be the sons of harpy. There's a picture floating around of them surrounding her and her group. It would also fit in with the ew article theme of every major character being in some sort of danger for the finale.

[Fen]

I'm wondering whether Brienne is likely to survive the season.  That man in the inn back in episode 5 was wearing one of those silly Frey hats?  Maybe some kind of informant for Roose, who seems very aware of how unpopular the Boltons are?

[AshleyN]

Well, the pattern so far is for Dany to get the final scene every other season, so we'll see if that holds up. I agree it doesn't seem like the most exciting choice though. To me it seems like Jon's storyline, wherever they decide to end it, screams season-ending cliffhanger. Especially since (to me at least) this has really felt like his season, moreso than any other character.

 

Really though, I wouldn't be surprised if it's something none of us suggest. Although the final scenes for the first two seasons weren't that hard to predict, the last two have been more out there. Last year in particular, I'm pretty sure everyone and their mother assumed it would be either Lady Stoneheart or Tyrion and Tywin. I can't imagine anyone guessed it would be Arya sailing for Braavos.

 

Playing devil's advocate here, though I assume this could happen in this episode, couldn't the strangers referenced in that announcement be the sons of harpy. There's a picture floating around of them surrounding her and her group. It would also fit in with the ew article theme of every major character being in some sort of danger for the finale.

It's possible, but I really think that takes place at the fighting pits before she rides Drogon*, and that appears to be happening in the next episode. Which makes sense, because even if Hardhome may have been this season's big spectacle I feel like tradition dictates that something huge still has to happen in Episode 9.

 

*Speaking of which, is anyone else a little worried about how this is going to look onscreen? Because I feel like it could either be wondrous and breathtaking, or really cheesy. And it really, REALLY needs to be the former.

Edited June 6, 2015 by AshleyN

[Dev F]

There would be no dramatic tension, IMO, if they end the season with Dany surrounded by Dothraki.

 

It also wasn't particularly dramatic to end season 3 with Dany surrounded by the oppressed people of Yunkai she'd just freed -- especially after they cut the prophetic visions that lent the book scene most of its meaning. Still didn't stop the writers from doing it.

 

I'm wondering whether Brienne is likely to survive the season.  That man in the inn back in episode 5 was wearing one of those silly Frey hats?  Maybe some kind of informant for Roose, who seems very aware of how unpopular the Boltons are?

 

If he were an informant for Roose, why would he convey Brienne's message to the Winterfell chambermaid to give to Sansa? Wouldn't he just tell Roose right away instead of giving Sansa a chance to signal Brienne? And wouldn't Theon's betrayal be a nonevent if the Boltons already had the game rigged on the other end?

[WearyTraveler]

*Speaking of which, is anyone else a little worried about how this is going to look onscreen? Because I feel like it could either be wondrous and breathtaking, or really cheesy. And it really, REALLY needs to be the former.

 

I keep having visions of the movie Never Ending Story, which look so fake today.  And with all the money they must have spent for Hardhome, yeah....

 

It also wasn't particularly dramatic to end season 3 with Dany surrounded by the oppressed people of Yunkai she'd just freed -- especially after they cut the prophetic visions that lent the book scene most of its meaning. Still didn't stop the writers from doing it.

 

I thought it was dramatic.  It was a decisive victory and showed Dany as a leader, beloved by her people.  It had hints of what she could do if she went to Westeros.  But now, considering how much time has passed, another scene of Dany surrounded by followers, doesn't pack the same punch, IMHO, off course. Mileage varies.  And maybe the way they do it will be dramatic, I'll give them the benefit if the doubt and make up my mind when I see it.  I will admit my Jon bias, which could be playing a part in how I feel about it. I just can't wait for Jon's story to continue to unfold and would love for the writers to amp up his story even more, so, there's that :) 

[AshleyN]

I keep having visions of the movie Never Ending Story, which look so fake today.  And with all the money they must have spent for Hardhome, yeah....

LOL. Hopefully everyone involved can channel their inner Alfonso Cuaron and give us something more along the lines of this.

[Avaleigh]

I think it's probably going to look cheesy but I'm hoping for the best. Even looking at that clip from Prisoner of Azkaban--it's crazy how different something can look after a decade (or more). 

 

And at the risk of going OT I thought Cuaron just about got the maximum amount of cheese during the scene in the same film where Harry got the gift of the Firebolt. 

[magdalene]

If Jon bites it and it gets left that way until next season I think I will avoid reading the Unsullied thread. There are posters in there who are clearly losing patience with the show and "with the bad guys always winning" - I doubt Jon's death, after being built up as a hero, is going to go over well. And they wouldn't know whether Kit Harrington was filming as they avoid all media for the show.

[nksarmi]

If Jon bites it and it gets left that way until next season I think I will avoid reading the Unsullied thread. There are posters in there who are clearly losing patience with the show and "with the bad guys always winning" - I doubt Jon's death, after being built up as a hero, is going to go over well. And they wouldn't know whether Kit Harrington was filming as they avoid all media for the show.

I half expect the ones who post here to come into the book talk thread to find out what we know - won't it be fun when they realize we've been suffering with this for years.

[magdalene]

I have had my problems with the show runners and  some of their adaptation choices but if they actually resolve the Jon cliffhanger in a satisfying manner after the frustrating story hell limbo GRRM has put us through for years that will count for a lot with me. That will make up some for all the teeth grinding I have done for the last couple of seasons about the Jaime story line choices. Some but not all.

[Bill1978]

My gut says they will not be revealing if Jon lives or dies. Apart from some little tidbits like Selmys death, Dany meeting Tyrion and revealing what happened at Hardhome, I feel this season has all been about stalling the big reveals until Martin publishes Winter. It often feels like they are deliberately stalling so Martin can have the honour of revealing things like Jon's fate. Obviously Martin is screwed when it comes to Season 7 and the book, but I honestly feel the show has been nice towards Martin and letting him have the moment of revealing the bigger picture.

[Fen]

If he were an informant for Roose, why would he convey Brienne's message to the Winterfell chambermaid to give to Sansa? Wouldn't he just tell Roose right away instead of giving Sansa a chance to signal Brienne? And wouldn't Theon's betrayal be a nonevent if the Boltons already had the game rigged on the other end?

 

I wasn't sure whether the message the chambermaid was conveying about the North remembering and lighting the candle was meant to be specific to Brienne's presence, or about general Northern support, and a makeshift system they had set up should she need help.

 

I think Theon's betrayal was still supposed to be an event for the audience, because we had been led to believe he might have broken through some of Ramsay psychological 'programming' - only to be reminded of what he had become, and that he was unlikely to be of any help to Sansa.  The chambermaid seemed almost incidental - The Boltons know they are surrounded by people who hate them - it was more about crushing Sansa's hope.