Season 5: Speculation

[Spartan Girl]

the book had Viseryon briefly sit on Brown Ben Plumm's shoulder and act friendly to him.  Well, as friendly as a flying death machine can.  They could do something similar when Dany introduces Tyrion to the dragons, like V could give him a head-tilting look of curiousity, then stick his face forward to be petted like Drogon did for Dany earlier this season.  "He seems to like you."

Oh I would love that. I'm also vainly hoping that if they keep Dany riding off on Drogon, she takes Tyrion with her. I mean it would be a total waste to have the writers split them up so soon after they've finally met. Picture it: Dany grabs Tyrion, climbs on Drogon, and as they take off we hear Tyrion scream, "FUCK MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

Tell me I'm not the only on that would love that.

[Haleth]

I wouldn't.  I think Tyrion should stay in Meereen in the role Selmy played in the book, herding harpies until Dany returns.  I'd be happy if Tyrion never stepped aboard a dragon.  The idea that he is a long, lost Targ and dragon wrangler is cheesy IMO.

[Oscirus]

Whether it's season 6 or season 7 I'm fairly certain that Tyrion's riding a dragon  but not because he's a targeryan.  Robin's "I want to see the little man fly" quote is too cute to be anything but foreshadowing.

 

Do I want to see him ride off when Dany takes off on Drogon? No, I'm actually interested in seeing how he'll run Mereen. I think that his stepping into an actual leadership role is important for his actual evolution into whatever the writers have planned for him in the future.

[Avaleigh]

I don't want Tyrion to ride with Dany.

 

I think he'll have his own dragon by next season. I wonder if Tyrion's title in Meereen will be Hand. I'm trying to figure out what will happen to him once Dany flies away. What will Hizdahr want to do with him if Hizdahr manages to live through the fight pit scene? Or Daario if Hizdahr is taken out of the equation. I feel like Daario might actually like Tyrion and I can see them teaming up against Hizdahr if they end up needing to. Tyrion's going to need somebody on the muscle end to take to him though because otherwise I can't imagine how he'd survive after Dany leaves. 

 

Tyrion will probably serve the purpose of Selmy as far as sort of holding down the fort in hopes that Dany will come back but I wonder what all he's really going to have the opportunity to do before he's dealing with the (considerably scaled down) battle of Meereen? The naval part of that battle was the main part I was looking forward to because it gives me Blackwater vibes but I don't think we're going to be getting that on the show next season. 

 

I know Yunkai has been mentioned on the show but Astapor was cut, right? Dany hasn't had any warning of Yunkai/Astapor falling and being taken back by the slave masters, right? Maybe there's stuff I missed but I'm not really getting a sense of how everything is ready to boil over into maximum chaos in Meereen. Even the greyscale feels like more of a time bomb for Jorah than the people around him. 

[nksarmi]

There might have been a small mention of things not going well in Yunkai (I can't remember), but there has been no hint that Dany might face a war or an attack in Meereen and I have a feeling that won't be included at all.  I think that bogs Dany down too much and she needs to get ready to leave for Westerous.  I suspect that the writers have realized that they need to simplify this story in order to get Dany back on the right continent. 

 

I think whatever happens at the end of this season will allow Tyrion and others to figure out who can be left in charge in Meereen and be trusted to keep slavery ended.  Then Dany can ask all who would join her to leave with her on her journey to Westerous while naming the best person possible as her "governor" in Meereen.  At least that would be the easiest way to extradite her from a story that has stalled her journey way too much and get her back into the story that matters (ie, the one they got me to care about to begin with).

[The Mormegil]

I know Yunkai has been mentioned on the show but Astapor was cut, right? Dany hasn't had any warning of Yunkai/Astapor falling and being taken back by the slave masters, right? Maybe there's stuff I missed but I'm not really getting a sense of how everything is ready to boil over into maximum chaos in Meereen. Even the greyscale feels like more of a time bomb for Jorah than the people around him. 

 

What do you mean by cut?

 

We saw Dany acquire the Unsullied in Astapor.

 

We were later told (by Jorah) that the Council Dany had left behind to rule had been overthrown by Cleon the Butcher.

[Avaleigh]

I thought that was Yunkai on the show. I wasn't sure. I thought Astapor and Yunkai had been combined on the show. 

Edited June 7, 2015 by Avaleigh

[The Mormegil]

I thought that was Yunkai on the show. I wasn't sure. I thought Astapor and Yunkai had been combined on the show. 

 

No, there's three cities just like in the book.

 

Astapor - Dany conquers by freeing the Unsullied and turning them on the Masters.

Yunkai - Sends Jorah, Grey Worm and Daario (who was working for Yunkai but has defected to her side) into the city to open the gates from the inside.

Meereen - Daario defeats the Meereenese champion, Grey Worm sneaks into the city and arms the slaves.

[AshleyN]

If Jon bites it and it gets left that way until next season I think I will avoid reading the Unsullied thread. There are posters in there who are clearly losing patience with the show and "with the bad guys always winning" - I doubt Jon's death, after being built up as a hero, is going to go over well. And they wouldn't know whether Kit Harrington was filming as they avoid all media for the show.

Honestly, given that that episode will likely also include Cersei's walk I might be avoiding the internet altogether after it airs. Given all of the heat this show has already taken when it comes to that kind of subject matter (some of it deserved, no doubt), I'm already dreading the shitstorm that's almost certain to follow. Like, I'm afraid the internet might actually collapse under the sheer weight of the thinkpieces. And it's not that I don't think that this is a subject worth discussing and debating, nor do I think that the show's record on this matter shouldn't be called into question, but I'm not at all looking forward to what I'm guessing will be a lot of hyperbole, flippant dismissals, and/or back and forth shouting between the outraged and those outraged at the outrage.

 

But yeah, I know there are a lot of people getting increasingly fed up with what they see as the non-stop misery on the show, with virtually no signs of hope in sight. Which is the main reason that I think it was a mistake to reduce the whole Northern Resistance storyline to one old lady who dies horribly. The reason that storyline was so powerful in the book was because it finally gave the reader some hope that there could be some sort of reward for being a decent person, as well as actual consequences for being an awful, traitorous piece of shit. And given what a letdown Dorne has been so far, even if they include Doran's big reveal there's no way it'll have half the impact that Wyman Manderley's "The North Remembers" speech would have. As much as everyone loved Oberyn, most viewers just aren't nearly as attached to that family as they are to the Starks.

 

 

As for Dany and Mereen, wasn't Volantis sending forces to be part of the attack in the book? I'm guessing that if that was going to be included there would have been a mention of it when Tyrion and Varys were there, especially since they did make a point of mentioning that slavery is still alive and well in that city.

Edited June 7, 2015 by AshleyN

[ElizaD]

I used to think that the speculation that Sansa will be pregnant was ridiculous, but so many people are talking about it that I'm going to be nervous until I see 5x10. It would actually make the Sansa-as-Jeyne storyline even worse, since it would mean that the Boltons win despite Roose/Ramsay's inevitable deaths and Show Sansa would be obliged to be grateful for the rape since it gave her a child to love. It's gotten to the point where I'm desperately hoping that the ambiguous ending mentioned by Sophie is just Sansa and Theon escaping like Jeyne and Theon did.

 

That reminds me, does the show have any bad mothers? Show Cat was given a speech regretting her treatment of Jon. It looks like Selyse

will be the parent who regrets Shireen's death

. There are absent or abusive fathers everywhere (Robert, Tywin, Jaime, Aerys, Balon, Stannis, Craster, Randyll), but the emphasis on Show Cersei's genuine love for her children and her awareness of Joffrey's hideousness vs. Book Cersei's neglect of her younger kids and pride in Joffrey's courage has neutered ASOIAF's most prominent bad mom.

[magdalene]

Anybody check out these video snips that were just posted? Stannis. They made him unredeemable. Wow.

[MadMouse]

Anybody check out these video snips that were just posted? Stannis. They made him unredeemable. Wow.

 

Yep I just watched both clips, there's no way his character comes back from that. Guess were back to S2 Stannis.

[Bass90]

Shame, I really like Dillane as Stannis.
And here i was thinking that the Sansa rape and the Dorne plot changes were the worst part of this season....

[Skeeter22]

The Stannis thing is shocking. I did not expect it to play out that way.

I wonder if they'll adjust their plans now that Dorne and the Sand snakes were so poorly received. I can't help but think that the North and the Vale got the shaft this season so they could focus on Dorne. I wasn't surprised that Jaime's Riverlands story got cut, because the Riverlands don't seem to interest D&D at all.

[Mya Stone]

Oh, Stannis.

That, combined with the episode 10 preview...

Sigh.

[magdalene]

I don't think I am going to be able to watch that sweet girl be burned alive. I'll have to leave the room when it gets close to that scene.

[Mya Stone]

I don't think I am going to be able to watch that sweet girl be burned alive. I'll have to leave the room when it gets close to that scene.

As a mother, this hurt my heart so much more than anything else I've seen. That was shocking. I kept waiting for Davos to save her...

[Spartan Girl]

Wow, those previews....no words.

Okay, so maybe Tyrion won't join Dany on her magical dragon ride, but as long as they get more scenes together next season I'll be happy.

[Avaleigh]

Holy shit, I go out to brunch and come back to find out that Stannis is going to be the most evil asshole we've met to date. I'm freaking stunned over here.

 

Where is Davos?! I didn't see him. I literally just watched the three videos and am going to watch again but wanted to post first. 

 

What the fucking hell, I was sure that Stannis would be better than that and that Selyse would be the danger to Shireen. Those guys are all just standing there while some woman burns a kid to death. What in the ever loving hell? 

 

There's still time to save her, right, if somebody rushes on the scene like Davos?

 

ETA:

 

Sorry, I screwed up my spoiler tags!

Edited June 7, 2015 by Avaleigh

[Happy Harpy]

The previews...

OMG. I dreaded it, it was foreshadowed, but this was tough.

 

I can't believe that I'm rooting for Ramsay "Rapist" Bolton to attack and allow Davos to spirit Shireen away

 

@Avaleigh

Davos was my first thought and I don't see him. I now dread that they killed him in order to get to Shireen. He, for one, would never accept that.

 

Stannis Baratheon, welcome to MEH, Moral Event Horizon.

 

Speculations

So, if my lovely Shireen dies, does this mean that House Baratheon is toasted? Or did Gendry just get  himself a plot armor as the last Baratheon by blood on the show? If Davos is alive, would this trigger his finally seeing the light and let Stannis drop like the smelly old sock he is and join Jon or the Starks/Brienne?

 

 

Edits: Spoiler tags and board are wonky for me. Hope the internet isn't breaking.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[magdalene]

Selyce is actually trying to save her. I didn't expect that. Stannis just went on top of my "die die die list" passing Ramsay.

[ElizaD]

Reddit has screencaps and descriptions of all the major plots in 5x09. If showing Hardhome was a wonderful book deviation, this episode seems to be back to misery and characters acting like idiots.

 

HBO has been unlucky this year. The first four episodes leak, now the big episode 9 gets spoiled and the episode 10 preview leaks too.

[Haleth]

Ok, I'm seriously pissed off about this spoiler.  It is completely unnecessary and completely destroys the character.

I can't believe that I'm rooting for Ramsay "Rapist" Bolton to attack and allow Davos to spirit Shireen away

 

Happy Harpy, I hope you are right!

Edited June 7, 2015 by Haleth

[amanda5858]

So Brienne will kill Stannis, yes? I'm kind of pissed. Why make Stannis more likeable than he's ever been just to turn him into a villain? I'm guessing to shock viewers, but it's hard to swallow.  I'm hoping that Stannis goes mad with guilt, Macbeth style. 

[MadMouse]

So did anyone else read the spoilers about Doran? He sends Trysyane and Myrcella back to Kings's Landing with Jaime. WTF? Save us Darkstar. But seriously we lost the Jaime's Riverland arc for this disaster.

[Avaleigh]

LMAO about the Dorne spoilers.

 

If I hadn't been prepared by the Shireen and Dany spoilers I would have thought the spoilers for Dorne are a joke. So Doran is cool with sending both Myrcella andTrystane to King's fucking Landing because Jaime more or less gives him his word? Okay, that totally makes sense. FFS at least book Doran has two other kids. This guy is apparently just going to let his heir waltz off into the hands of the Lannisters. There has to be more to this, right? Maybe he's planning on having them all killed on the road save Trystane?

 

[Hecate7]

Oh I would love that. I'm also vainly hoping that if they keep Dany riding off on Drogon, she takes Tyrion with her. I mean it would be a total waste to have the writers split them up so soon after they've finally met. Picture it: Dany grabs Tyrion, climbs on Drogon, and as they take off we hear Tyrion scream, "FUCK MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

Tell me I'm not the only on that would love that.

 

I'd hate it. It would be cheap and more along the lines of Bill and Ted or the movies that sort of laugh at the fantasy element by putting a comedy sidekick in who says something anachronistic to ruin the mood in any potentially romantic, emotional, or awe-inspiring scene, basically because the creators know the effects, acting, or some other element of the production isn't good enough to create the desired mood, and if they have a goofy comedy sidekick yelling "holy shit" and getting a laugh, maybe you won't notice. Bleah.

 

I want Tyrion to fly someday, but I don't want him ruining Danaerys' big moment.

[maystone]

I haven't watched the clips - I'm just sick at the thought - but it sounds like there's some ambiguity about Shireen's fate? Although Ep10 promo has Melisandre telling Stannis that the Lord of Light has kept his promise, so all I can hope is that the camera doesn't lovingly linger on that child's horrible death. I was starting to really like Stannis, but this isn't completely out of character for him. Look at the number of people he's already let Mel send to the flames! Nothing comes above his belief (delusion?) that he is meant to be on the Iron Throne. Even if Davos manages to save Shireen, I'll hate Stannis forever for that belief.

[Oscirus]

My only real problem is that

Why did they make such a big deal on casting that big guard just to have him do nothing but make a half-assed threat to Jamie?

[Avaleigh]

So far Dorne the people who have claimed that Dorne seems to have been totally pointless are 100% right IMO. The showrunners could have invited Tyrstane and Myrcella to attend Tommen and Margaery's wedding if they just wanted to get the two of them in the capital for whatever action takes place.

 

I'm assuming something has to happen on their journey back otherwise Dorne was nothing but filler. I've defended the showrunners on a lot of stuff but damn it if this upcoming episode doesn't seem like it's going to validate a lot of the claims that have been made about how these guys struggle to tell a story every time they "go into business for themselves". 

[Oscirus]

What if this is a Trojan horse type situation. They're sending the prince back
with some Dorne representatives to take out Tommen and get the prince on the
iron throne with Myrcella?

 

Edited June 7, 2015 by Oscirus

[FurryFury]

Sooo... 

Am I right to understand than D&D decided to ruin yet another ASOIAF character? Does Stannis decide to kill his daughter? Holy shit. I don't feel about this as strongly as about Littlefinger being stupid enough to leave Sansa to Ramsey and for her to be raped (never going to forgive that), but it comes close.

[MadMouse]

So far Dorne the people who have claimed that Dorne seems to have been totally pointless are 100% right IMO. The showrunners could have invited Tyrstane and Myrcella to attend Tommen and Margaery's wedding if they just wanted to get the two of them in the capital for whatever action takes place.

 

I'm assuming something has to happen on their journey back otherwise Dorne was nothing but filler. I've defended the showrunners on a lot of stuff but damn it if this upcoming episode doesn't seem like it's going to validate a lot of the claims that have been made about how these guys struggle to tell a story every time they "go into business for themselves". 

 

Its obvious at this point they thought all the love the Viper got would transfer over to Dorne in general. Problem is they've cut the majority of Dorne's plot and replaced it with what exactly? A nice pair of boobs and some witty one liners from Bronn. 

[FurryFury]

God I was cringing all the way throughout that scene in prison. If Bronn really died from that, I wouldn't be pissed at all, but as it stands, this was yet another instance of meaningless fanservice based on objectifying women.

[magdalene]

Sigh. That whole Dorne story line is so stupid. And for this I lost Jaime's awesome Riverlands storyline.

[SeanC]

Where is Davos?! I didn't see him. I literally just watched the three videos and am going to watch again but wanted to post first. 

According to the spoiler summary, Stannis sends Davos back to Castle Black at the start of the episode. He has one more scene with Shireen before he goes (having failed to convince Stannis to send Shireen with him).

[Bill1978]

Cannot believe they have chosen to go down that path, I'm hoping for a last minute reprieve.

[magdalene]

http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/96241324.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

According to this - somebody who's seen the episode early - it's true 

Stannis has Shireen burned alive.

[Greta]

I don't think we should leap to the conclusion that this is an HBO re-write.  In fact, I really, really can't see this happening unless it's going to happen in the books.

 

Speculation tied to pretty much nothing, but

 

Blood of the dragon cannot be burned? Shireen has Targaryen blood and this, like Dany's dragonbirthing, is a magic ritual.

[nksarmi]

What if this is a Trojan horse type situation. They're sending the prince back

with some Dorne representatives to take out Tommen and get the prince on the

iron throne with Myrcella?

 

I would love that.  The Martells need to get more interesting and Tommen is currently useless.

[SilverShadow]

Okay. So based on Shireen's fate and the eminent battle, my theory is (assuming Sansa escapes) is that a disillusioned Davos somehow hooks up with Sansa, Brienne, Pod, and maybe Theon, and Sansa is the one who orders him to find Bran and Rickon.

What if this is a Trojan horse type situation. They're sending the prince back
with some Dorne representatives to take out Tommen and get the prince on the
iron throne with Myrcella?

 

 

That would make sense and be an easy substitute for Aegon, if that plot's being omitted.

Edited June 8, 2015 by SilverShadow

[Paradigm14]

With that preview tonight, re Ep 10,

I'm wondering if Sansa will somehow take Winterfell. Maybe between Stannis and the Vale troops, Sansa will be the noble left standing with Roose running back to the Dreadfort. Is it possible?

I know they've telegraphed the idea, but it's starting to look like it might happen.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Paradigm14

[nksarmi]

Well shit, they f-ing burned Shirleen.  Ok, now my stance that they owe us is amped up by a factor of 100.  I see pleas in the unsullied thread to please let something good happen to a good character. 

 

I have to say that one of the most frustrating things for me reading the last two books is that I actually felt like it was too much bad to characters I cared about.  I felt like those books ended and it was just like holy shit, when is something good going to happen?

 

I hope the show runners do not follow in the author's footsteps and end this season without a signs of hope.  I feel like at this point they HAVE to do one of two things - give Sansa a victory or resurrect Jon (they just can't leave him for dead) - preferably both.

 

And they definitely owe us the death of a villain - preferably two.  I think Ayra will kill Meryn but I want Roose, Stannis, or Ramsey's to go down this season as well.

[Funzlerks]

I think "Burning Shireen" should become a new thing for shows to do, like Jumping the Shark and Growing a Beard.

Does the show have time for Cersei, at least one Tyrion/Jorah/Daario scene, Arya, Brienne and Pod, Sansa in a look who's a badass now scene, and Jon getting shanked and mostly dying? Maybe Jon gets shanked in the next season's opener? I don't think we will have any resolution on Daenerys's magic carpet ride or the siege on Winterfell.

Though maybe Stannis winning in a great surprise will end the season? I really more than ever see him as someone who will be around when Daenerys the Princess who is bad at ruling but good at tearfully looking at her dragons eventually comes to Westeros.

[benteen]

Cersei being absent and Jon having only a brief and meaningless scene (I know he had half an episode last week) reminds me more than ever that the main characters of his show are lucky if they manage to reach 60 minutes of actual screentime.

[nksarmi]

You know - I thought for sure we'd get Jon being stabbed this season and a possible resurrection, but maybe they will save it for next season.  Stabbing Jon is going to drive unsullied viewers nuts.  I'm sure they believe people will come back to see if he lives, but people drop shows for reasons like this as well - especially if they film it wrong and people think he's dead.

 

I'm here until the end but I probably won't read any more books.  I will just let D&D provide me with a satisfying enough ending and renew my commitment to avoid unfinished series.

 

I wonder if the final scene is one from the books if they could end with Cersei's walk? 

[Umbelina]

I'm beginning to think the White Walkers have it right, and maybe we should root for them?  After all, they let Sam live.  So maybe they do let decent people live, and simply take out the garbage with the rest?

 

Oh and I always disliked Stannis, so while shocking, not really...  Ned would probably still follow him after that since "he is the heir!" and it's his duty.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Umbelina

[WearyTraveler]

I'm beginning to think the White Walkers have it right, and maybe we should root for them?  After all, they let Sam live.  So maybe they do let decent people live, and simply take out the garbage with the rest?

 

Oh and I always disliked Stannis, so while shocking, not really...  Ned would probably still follow him after that since "he is the heir!" and it's his duty.

 

The White Walkers have killed plenty of innocent people, though.  Or at least good people, such as Karsi, just last episode.

 

As for your second point, you really do hate Ned, don't you?  He's not even in the action and he gets brought up.  For the record, Ned refused to support Robert's plan to murder Daenerys, who is older than Shireen (both in the books and on the show), basically telling Robert that there was a line he was not willing to cross, not even for his King.  So, I'd say that no, he wouldn't have supported Stannis after that.

[buckycap]

Speculation tied to pretty much nothing, but

Blood of the dragon cannot be burned? Shireen has Targaryen blood and this, like Dany's dragonbirthing, is a magic ritual.

GRRM has stated several times that Dany surviving the fire was a one time thing. Targaryens routinely die in fires (Rhaenyra during the Dance of Dragons was killed by dragon fire, the Tragedy of Summerhall killed an entire generation of Targaryens by fire, and Targaryens are traditionally cremated after they die).

I don't think the Baratheons being distantly Targaryen is going to save Shireen.

[AshleyN]

Jon's entire arc this season has been building toward the stabbing, I really can't imagine that they'll leave it for next season.

 

Oh and I always disliked Stannis, so while shocking, not really...  Ned would probably still follow him after that since "he is the heir!" and it's his duty.

Ned nearly ended his friendship with Robert, his best friend from childhood who he'd just gone to war with, over the latter's refusal to punish those involved in the deaths of Elia and her children. He straight up quit his post as Hand of the King because he was so disgusted with the plan to have Dany murdered. He committed his single biggest tactical error (and more or less committed treason in the process) because he didn't want to see Cersei's children punished for the crimes of their parents. The fact that he abhorred violence against children under any circumstances will likely turn out to be his single most important character trait. So no, I don't think he'd support Stannis after he had his own child murdered.

Edited June 8, 2015 by AshleyN