Season 5: Speculation

[Haleth]

A couple things from last night's epi have me wondering.  With Gilly and Shireen becoming close will the little princess be whisked away instead of Mance's son by Sam?  (I hope this is so instead of Shireen being sent to the flames.)  Also, bringing up the greyscale must be important.

 

Second, when Qyburn asked for the dwarf's head, I wondered if he's going to use it on the Mountain.  

[Winnief]

A couple things from last night's epi have me wondering.  With Gilly and Shireen becoming close will the little princess be whisked away instead of Mance's son by Sam?  (I hope this is so instead of Shireen being sent to the flames.)  Also, bringing up the greyscale must be important.

 

By the Old Gods and the New I hope you're right...I really, REALLY don't want to see poor Shireen killed by her lunatic mother.  She'd be happier living as a Wildling than a 'princess' anyway.  And they do seem to be setting it up, that Sam and Gilly might be leaving Castle Black at some point...though it probably won't be for Oldtown like in the books.  Maybe Braavos to meet with Arya or perhaps KL to really get some new character interaction.

 

And they wouldn't be going into so much detail about the greyscale unless someone important were about to be infected.  My money's on Jorah, taking the role from JonCon, making it his goal to live just long enough to see Dany take the Iron Throne...but Varys is possible as well.  For that matter there's been some speculation that Tyrion may get greyscale from the inside out, which would be an especially cruel irony since that would eventually rob him of the ability to speak before his death. 

[DigitalCount]

I'm concerned that the show is going to build him up as a "dark" half of Jon, especially if this ultimately leads to Jon facing off against Ramsay

This is actually what I got from the books. I always considered Ramsey to be Jon's evil counterpart, especially when he became the Lord of Winterfell. And given that Jon was headed for the Battle of Snow until Marsh derailed his plans, I think that this is how the book was set up too.

[nksarmi]

Ok I hate how Sansa turned Brie away, but I suspect it happened to set Brie up as Sansa's savior later.  Or at least, if Theon does step up and save Sansa, Brie will then save them both.

[Danny Franks]

Ok I hate how Sansa turned Brie away, but I suspect it happened to set Brie up as Sansa's savior later.  Or at least, if Theon does step up and save Sansa, Brie will then save them both.

 

I suspect Brienne might have just been set up to suffer the fate that those Wildling spear wives suffered, when Ramsay got his hands on them (if he really did, of course). She might save Sansa, and if she does then hopefully it's before Benioff and Weiss abuse her too much, but I don't see her lasting much longer after that. Once Sansa is saved, Brienne becomes kind of redundant.

 

The only good thing I can think of about them both heading north is that they might just have scenes with Jon, at some point. I'd really like to see those. Because Jon and Sansa are siblings who have never shared a word (that we've seen), and it would be really nice to see them reunited as the last remnants of the Stark family that seemed so happy all the way back in the pilot episode. And Jon and Brienne are both so painfully sincere and dutiful, that seeing them interact would be a hoot.

[Maximum Taco]

Second, when Qyburn asked for the dwarf's head, I wondered if he's going to use it on the Mountain.  

 

Yup. right where I went too.

 

This might even be a book detail that I missed. I don't remember Qyburn ever asking for a dwarf's head in the book but it makes too much sense. It doesn't make any sense for Robert Strong/FrankenGregor to be a good fighter if he has no head, but a dwarf's head is an good as any other.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[nksarmi]

I suspect Brienne might have just been set up to suffer the fate that those Wildling spear wives suffered, when Ramsay got his hands on them (if he really did, of course). She might save Sansa, and if she does then hopefully it's before Benioff and Weiss abuse her too much, but I don't see her lasting much longer after that. Once Sansa is saved, Brienne becomes kind of redundant.

 

The only good thing I can think of about them both heading north is that they might just have scenes with Jon, at some point. I'd really like to see those. Because Jon and Sansa are siblings who have never shared a word (that we've seen), and it would be really nice to see them reunited as the last remnants of the Stark family that seemed so happy all the way back in the pilot episode. And Jon and Brienne are both so painfully sincere and dutiful, that seeing them interact would be a hoot.

If they like her character well enough and GRRM has not set her up for death, I'd like to see Brie survive and meet up with some Wildling that would appreciate her.  What?  Someone has to have a happy ending in this grim tale right?

[Pete Martell]

This is actually what I got from the books. I always considered Ramsey to be Jon's evil counterpart, especially when he became the Lord of Winterfell. And given that Jon was headed for the Battle of Snow until Marsh derailed his plans, I think that this is how the book was set up too.

 

Was the book as vague over just how bad viewers were supposed to find Ramsay?

[Maximum Taco]

Was the book as vague over just how bad viewers were supposed to find Ramsay?

 

The books paint Ramsay as pretty much the worst guy who has ever lived.

 

The things he does makes actions taken by Joff and the Mad King seem forgivable.

[Pete Martell]

The books paint Ramsay as pretty much the worst guy who has ever lived.

 

The things he does makes actions taken by Joff and the Mad King seem forgivable.

 

That's what I thought, but the show seems much more vague to me. I guess this story with Sansa will clear it up, but after they called her attempted rape in season 2 "ballet-like," or whatever the word was, I don't know.

[DigitalCount]

I may be mistaken, but I think they were talking about how it was executed in such a manner that it was still suspenseful and manic and frightening without having to go to a more explicit place.

[benteen]

Speaking of the Lyanna letter, which does show that the North is still loyal to the Starks, I wonder if we'll get anymore of Stannis's ADWDs events.  Meeting the Mountain Clans, taking back Deepwood Motte from Yara and the Ironborn, which secures the loyalty of House Mormont as well as House Glover.

Since Grey Scale was also brought up pretty heavily in the Shireen and Gilly scene, I wonder if we'll get some version of Tyrion and the stone men as well.

 

I don't like the idea of Brienne ending up like the spearwives did but LOVE the idea of her being the Ghost of Winterfell.  That would be a brilliant merging of storylines.

[Oscirus]

Brienne and Stannis winding up in the same place is an interesting development esp since they made a big deal of having her call him out.

 

I put this in the other thread but I think it goes better here.

 

as per tywin the failed kings:

 

The holy king- Stannis

The just king/queen- Dany

The strong king- Jon would fit here but I don't know if he qualifies since he's not really a king.

[SeanC]

Speaking of the Lyanna letter, which does show that the North is still loyal to the Starks, I wonder if we'll get anymore of Stannis's ADWDs events.  Meeting the Mountain Clans, taking back Deepwood Motte from Yara and the Ironborn, which secures the loyalty of House Mormont as well as House Glover.

The scene with Lyanna establishes that she's the Lady of Bear Island, so that means no adult Mormonts (none have been cast, anyway, that we know of).  Non-Stark noble houses have been nonentities on the show apart from the Boltons and (briefly) the Karstarks, so I'm skeptical about the show changing that, unfortunately.

[Holmbo]

If they like her character well enough and GRRM has not set her up for death, I'd like to see Brie survive and meet up with some Wildling that would appreciate her.  What?  Someone has to have a happy ending in this grim tale right?

Maybe she and Tormund could end up together :)

A lot of speculations occured to me when watching this episode. The first one being that Bronn is clearly a dead man. His marriage to Lollys and lordship of Stokeworth was the only possible future significance for him. Of course the show could just send him rowing like Gendry but why do that when you can use his death to raise the stakes in Dorne or establish some Dornish characters fighting skills.

 

My other thought is that since they spend so much time explaining greyscale that's probably going to be important later. So, since Griff is not likely to appear, Tyrion and Jorah will probably encounter the stone men which means either Tyrion is supposed to eventually die of Greyscale OR Jorah is taking the role of Griff. I don't mean that in any strict sense but if maybe whatever plot purposes Aegon has will be filled by Dany coming back earlier to Westeros and if bringing Greyscale there is one of the plots Jorah might get it and not tell anyone. Of course it could just be that they needed some smaller scenes at the wall and choose to do non-secual exposition.

 

Third thought is that I feel this whole Dany practicing in Meeren is quiet problematic. I think the faith of Meeren will mirror the faith of Dany. If she manage to somehow save the situation she will have learned and might make a good ruler but if she ends up having ruined everything she will never get to rule in Westeros and will probably die fighting the whitewalkers.

[Danny Franks]

 

A lot of speculations occured to me when watching this episode. The first one being that Bronn is clearly a dead man. His marriage to Lollys and lordship of Stokeworth was the only possible future significance for him. Of course the show could just send him rowing like Gendry but why do that when you can use his death to raise the stakes in Dorne or establish some Dornish characters fighting skills.

 

Areo Hotah. Because there's no Arys Oakheart to kill, Hotah will need some other way of demonstrating how badass he is. We know that Bronn is a great fighter, so what better way to establish someone as a threat than having him defeat Bronn? It would also expose Jaime, and that vulnerability would make him even more of an underdog hero.

 

So far, I'm not sold at all on the shortcuts to the Dornish storyline that the writers have taken. What is Doran planning, and how is he going to implement it, without the extra kids he needs to bind the Martells to the Targaryens? Ellaria seems to have none of the ambition of Arianne, nor the intelligence or relative subtlety. The loss of that female heir takes away a lot of Myrcella's importance to the Martells, unless they otherwise make it clear that women can inherit equally to men, there. I was never that interested in the Sand Snakes anyway (the idea of a bunch of badass warrior sisters, each with their own speciality, seems so very much a bad fantasy cliché to me), but it seems like they will either be Ellaria's loyal puppets or dividing up Arianne's storyline between themselves.

[Lady S.]

Areo Hotah. Because there's no Arys Oakheart to kill, Hotah will need some other way of demonstrating how badass he is. We know that Bronn is a great fighter, so what better way to establish someone as a threat than having him defeat Bronn? It would also expose Jaime, and that vulnerability would make him even more of an underdog hero.

 

So far, I'm not sold at all on the shortcuts to the Dornish storyline that the writers have taken. What is Doran planning, and how is he going to implement it, without the extra kids he needs to bind the Martells to the Targaryens? Ellaria seems to have none of the ambition of Arianne, nor the intelligence or relative subtlety. The loss of that female heir takes away a lot of Myrcella's importance to the Martells, unless they otherwise make it clear that women can inherit equally to men, there.

What I heard of Trystane/Myrcella's stroll was him calling her his Queen, and I think he said it more than once. So I predict he's the Queenmaker here and Ellaria has just been reduced to an older Sand Snake, since her dialogue came from Obara, not Arianne. I still don't see why the show needed all three Sand Snakes and only one child for Doran. Two of them are set to go to KL in Winds, but I doubt their individual characters will prove crucial to the plot in an irreplaceable way.

[Holmbo]

I took their inclusion to mean that they indeed will be important to the future story. Not many people left in KL at the current end of the books so it might be hard finding characters to merge their role with. Obara I'm not sure of though. Maybe she will die this season.

[Holmbo]

I just thought of something else. Since Tyrion is already on his way to Meeren could it be that rather than Jorah coming across him on accident and kidnapping him Varys has already made contact with him and proposed that he bring Tyrion to Dany. So he's meeting them in Volantis. Varys might leave saying he has some stuff to take care of and in the end of the season we see him in kingslanding.

[Advance35]

http://www.hypable.com/george-r-r-martin-teases-the-prologue-and-plotlines-of-the-winds-of-winter/

 

Well GRRM did say that the Sand Snakes would play a very large part in TWOW.   I also wasn't surprised they removed Arianne Martell, I assume the bulk of her story in ASOIAF will surround and be involved with Aegon and if he's been removed from the narrative what's the point of her.   I am hoping they keep Myrcella's disfigurement because the Martells are kind of blase about it outside of the frame up of Darkstar.   It's a sign that the other Great Houses are no longer afraid of House Lannister now that Tywin is gone.   Who isn't spoiling to take a piece of them.    Stannis and his Faction, The Tyrells, The Martells, LF/Sansa/Roose/Ramsay, Danerys.   It's a veritable "Who'll do it?" in terms of who will deliver the killing blow to House Lannister.

[The Mormegil]

The scene with Lyanna establishes that she's the Lady of Bear Island, so that means no adult Mormonts (none have been cast, anyway, that we know of).  Non-Stark noble houses have been nonentities on the show apart from the Boltons and (briefly) the Karstarks, so I'm skeptical about the show changing that, unfortunately.

 

Though never named on screen Maege Mormont appeared during Seaon 1 including Rob's War Council (the scene Cat reaches the camp) and the declaring the King in the North Scene.

 

As she's never seen again after Season 1 it's likely she died during the fighting, then again Great Jon Umber is supposedly still alive and he hasn't been seen since Season 1 either.

Edited April 23, 2015 by The Mormegil

[Hanahope]

I had a thought that if the Citadel plot line is important to the story resolution, maybe the show will give that plot to Arya when her faceless man training is completed (she's a quick study), rather than utilize a more peripheral character like Jaqen.  That would also allow for potential interaction with Sam whether or not they also meet up in Braavos.

[Shanna]

Wasn't there a lady Mormont who died at the red wedding?

That may be why Lyanna is in charge.

[Maximum Taco]

Wasn't there a lady Mormont who died at the red wedding?

That may be why Lyanna is in charge.

 

No confirmation on Maege's status, I don't think she was in that episode.

 

The fact that Lyanna is Lady of Bear Island implies that Maege died, but it could also be that Lyanna is Lady of Bear Island the same way Bran was the Stark in Winterfell. Meaning she's just in charge cause all the other Mormonts are away.

[Eegah]

With Stannis' line pointedly naming Tormund the new leader of the Wildlings, I'm now wondering if it was actually Tormund who switched places with Mance. He'd be far more inclined to do it willingly, and that anguished reaction from the supposed Tormund could easily be Mance watching someone be tortured in his place.

[DigitalCount]

I would be more inclined to assume that the switch occurs on a more meta level. I think Tormund will receive Mance's storyline.

Also, I think this season will be better on rewatch once we don't have to worry about Sansa's fate. I remain confident that they would not give Sansa so many near-misses only to be victimized here in that manner. I could be wrong, but why cross a bridge preemptively when it may never even come?

[ElizaD]

There was a casting call for an older woman who'd be Brienne's ally in "dangerous territory." Could that be the "North remembers" woman in 5x03? But how could Brienne end up interacting with her? As a huge warrior woman, she'd stand out if she entered Winterfell. Shouldn't Roose recognize Brienne? They were both around Robb/Cat in season 2. I guess they could give Brienne a quick line about how she only saw Roose from a distance - the show's done worse things to continuity and logic.

[Unknown poster]

Roose and Brienne had a face to face conversation at Harrenhall. That would be a BIG stretch.

[Constantinople]

There was a casting call for an older woman who'd be Brienne's ally in "dangerous territory." Could that be the "North remembers" woman in 5x03? But how could Brienne end up interacting with her? As a huge warrior woman, she'd stand out if she entered Winterfell. Shouldn't Roose recognize Brienne? They were both around Robb/Cat in season 2. I guess they could give Brienne a quick line about how she only saw Roose from a distance - the show's done worse things to continuity and logic.

No one would recognize Pod, and the maxim about Chekov's sword training suggests he'll put it to use.

Afterwards, Pod will be known as the Master of the Two Swords.

[ElizaD]

I can't believe I forgot about Harrenhal! It's got to be Pod then, with Brienne skulking in the crypts, perhaps.

 

New episode information:

 

Episode #44: “Sons of the Harpy”

        The Faith Militant grow increasingly aggressive. Jaime (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau) and Bronn (Jerome Flynn) head south. Ellaria (Indira Varma) and the Sand Snakes vow vengeance.

Written by Dave Hill; directed by Mark Mylod.

 

        Episode #45: “Kill the Boy”

        Dany (Emilia Clarke) makes a difficult decision in Meereen. Jon (Kit Harington) recruits the help of an unexpected ally. Brienne (Gwendoline Christie) searches for Sansa (Sophie Turner). Theon (Alfie Allen) remains under Ramsay’s (Iwan Rheon) control.

        Written by Bryan Cogman; directed by Jeremy Podeswa.

 

        Episode #46: “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken”

        Arya (Maisie Williams) trains. Jorah (Iain Glen) and Tyrion (Peter Dinklage) run into slavers. Trystane (Toby Sebastian) and Myrcella (Nell Tiger Free) make plans. Jaime and Bronn reach their destination. The Sand Snakes attack.

Written by Bryan Cogman; directed by Jeremy Podeswa.

 

        Episode #47: “The Gift”

        Jon prepares for conflict. Sansa tries to talk to Theon. Brienne waits for a sign. Stannis (Stephen Dillane) remains stubborn. Jaime attempts to reconnect with family.

        Written by David Benioff & D.B. Weiss; directed by Miguel Sapochnik.

 

        Episode #48: “Hardhome”

        Arya makes progress in her training. Sansa confronts an old friend. Cersei (Lena Headey) struggles. Jon travels.

        Written by David Benioff & D.B. Weiss; directed by Miguel Sapochnik.

Edited April 27, 2015 by ElizaD

[Tippi]

I am wondering if Brienne will kill Stannis.  I could see it going down like this:  Shireen is sacrificed to supposedly assure victory at Winterfell--either Mel talks Stannis into it (sob!)  or Selyse does it while Stannis is away or otherwise engaged.  This will doom Stannis as a character.  He will get to Winterfell;  I don't know if he will win but Brienne will get her revenge for Renly.  And maybe at that point Davos goes to find Rickon (or maybe Gendry?)

 

I will hate to see this happen because Shireen and Stannis are two of my favorites, but my spidey sense is tingling.

[benteen]

I wonder who the old friend Sansa runs into is.

[Avaleigh]

They wouldn't consider Pod to be an old friend, right? I'm really at a loss on this one. Maybe Theon is no longer Reek? 

 

Episode six sounds really good. 

[benteen]

I suppose Pod but I don't remember the  two having any interaction with each other.  It does say "confront" though so maybe it is Theon?

 

The next three episodes should be interesting as they are written by first-time script writer (for the show) Dave Hill and the other two by Bryan Cogman.  I always look forward to Cogman's scripts. 

Edited April 28, 2015 by benteen

[Maximum Taco]

Jon travels? 

 

Is he going to Hardhome instead of Tormund? If he is what does that mean for the stabbing of Jon Snow "For the Watch" scene?

 

I guess he could just come back, since the show doesn't seem to care much about how long it takes anyone to get anywhere.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[Smug47]

So I dunno if this is in the right place (there are so many topics!) but I saw this link with pictures for the next episode: http://watchersonthewall.com/photos-released-from-game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-5-kill-the-boy/ (nothing too spoilery) and I have some spec that only works with book knowledge:

I think they'll do the stone men storyline with Tyrion and Jorah while Jorah brings him back to Dany. I think Jorah will be the one affected by Greyscale after pulling Tyrion out of the river and will replace much or all of Jon Connington's storyline in the book, minus Aegon obviously.

[Lady S.]

Jon travels? 

 

Is he going to Hardhome instead of Tormund? If he is what does that mean for the stabbing of Jon Snow "For the Watch" scene?

 

I guess he could just come back, since the show doesn't seem to care much about how long it takes anyone to get anywhere.

He's fighting with Tormund in all the promos, so they get back to the Wall for FTW in the finale.

[fantique]

I wonder who the old friend Sansa runs into is.

That was my first question! After tonight's episode, as soon as I saw his cute stupid face: PODRICK!!! DUH!

 

Just had a thought! How cool would it be if Brienne became the ghost of Winterfell!?!?!?!?

Edited May 11, 2015 by fantique

[Holmbo]

So I dunno if this is in the right place (there are so many topics!) but I saw this link with pictures for the next episode: http://watchersonthewall.com/photos-released-from-game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-5-kill-the-boy/ (nothing too spoilery) and I have some spec that only works with book knowledge:

I think they'll do the stone men storyline with Tyrion and Jorah while Jorah brings him back to Dany. I think Jorah will be the one affected by Greyscale after pulling Tyrion out of the river and will replace much or all of Jon Connington's storyline in the book, minus Aegon obviously.

Well predicted ;)

I also thought this likely but I would have expected it to be revealed much later. I wonder if this makes Jorah more likely to survive the season if he's supposed to bring greyscale to westeros. If he doesn't die in the books he might even be cured in the show.

[Maximum Taco]

That was my first question! After tonight's episode, as soon as I saw his cute stupid face: PODRICK!!! DUH!

 

Just had a thought! How cool would it be if Brienne became the ghost of Winterfell!?!?!?!?

 

Brienne might be a bit too large to be the Ghost in Winterfell.

 

"Who's killing people!? Perhaps it's that impossibly large woman who recently arrived!"

 

I'm actually hoping it's Theon. It was unlikely in the books, cause he was much more physically destroyed, but Show!Theon could do it.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[Avaleigh]

I would like for it to be Theon too so fingers crossed. I'd be surprised if Brienne would agree that Pod is ready for something like that.

[Smug47]

Well predicted ;)

I also thought this likely but I would have expected it to be revealed much later. I wonder if this makes Jorah more likely to survive the season if he's supposed to bring greyscale to westeros. If he doesn't die in the books he might even be cured in the show.

I didn't even think about it until I saw the picture of Tyrion on the boat, so I'm not too far ahead of the curve! I'm actually enjoying the third party storylines being given to main characters; it streamlines the story a lot and it's nice to have some surprises in store!

[Avaleigh]

I'm hoping they do something with him similar to what they did with Dany and the hatching of the dragons: he rises from the dead because he's meant to do that without anyone's help.  I'm hoping that's the case in the books too and think there's some set-up for it.  In her chapters Melissandre intuits that Jon is important, but she can't quite see why.  It would be awesome if she sees Jon rise for himself, and then she'll realize that he's AA.  Mel going off with Stannis on the show gives me hope that this is how it's going to happen in the books.

Melisandre possibly not being there for Jon's resurrection is really throwing me. I suppose there's always the possibility that she could return to the Wall in time but I'm not sure if that would work even as often as travel time is disregarded on this show. 

 

Part of me was wondering if Jon's body wouldn't be burned by the wildlings or the members of the NW and that this would cause some magical reaction but I feel like there are components that are missing to make it a situation that is similar to what happened with Daenerys and the dragons. Shouldn't something/someone be on the pyre with Jon? If it's Shireen (and I don't think she'll be killed personally) or even Maester Aemon then doesn't that suggest Mel's involvement?

 

Dany had Drogo's corpse, MMD, and the eggs in addition to going into the flames while she was alive. Surely there has to be more to it than Jon getting stabbed and then somehow finding a way to have himself resurrected. Even with Ghost's help I feel like he'd need some human assistance even if the people involved had no idea that they were assisting a resurrection. 

 

Now that I'm thinking about it, Targaryens are/were known for burning their dead. so obviously the fire alone isn't going to bring Jon back to life, there has to be some other element. I even considered Coldhands factoring in somehow but remembered that he hasn't been introduced to the show. Maybe Aemon will be of assistance? How though? It's the people who are associated with the Lord of Light who are known to bring people back from the dead. And they're already playing up the Jon/Mel dynamic. 

 

I don't know I feel like Mel has to be apart of Jon's resurrection somehow. Maybe she won't have to be present to help? I'm super curious about this. 

[Lady S.]

Brienne might be a bit too large to be the Ghost in Winterfell.

 

"Who's killing people!? Perhaps it's that impossibly large woman who recently arrived!"

 

I'm actually hoping it's Theon. It was unlikely in the books, cause he was much more physically destroyed, but Show!Theon could do it.

There's also the fact that Roose has met Brienne at Harrenhal, so putting up a hood as a disguise would be even dumber for her than it was Tyrion, though tv Brienne is often dumb.

[nksarmi]

Melisandre possibly not being there for Jon's resurrection is really throwing me. I suppose there's always the possibility that she could return to the Wall in time but I'm not sure if that would work even as often as travel time is disregarded on this show. 

 

Part of me was wondering if Jon's body wouldn't be burned by the wildlings or the members of the NW and that this would cause some magical reaction but I feel like there are components that are missing to make it a situation that is similar to what happened with Daenerys and the dragons. Shouldn't something/someone be on the pyre with Jon? If it's Shireen (and I don't think she'll be killed personally) or even Maester Aemon then doesn't that suggest Mel's involvement?

 

Dany had Drogo's corpse, MMD, and the eggs in addition to going into the flames while she was alive. Surely there has to be more to it than Jon getting stabbed and then somehow finding a way to have himself resurrected. Even with Ghost's help I feel like he'd need some human assistance even if the people involved had no idea that they were assisting a resurrection. 

 

Now that I'm thinking about it, Targaryens are/were known for burning their dead. so obviously the fire alone isn't going to bring Jon back to life, there has to be some other element. I even considered Coldhands factoring in somehow but remembered that he hasn't been introduced to the show. Maybe Aemon will be of assistance? How though? It's the people who are associated with the Lord of Light who are known to bring people back from the dead. And they're already playing up the Jon/Mel dynamic. 

 

I don't know I feel like Mel has to be apart of Jon's resurrection somehow. Maybe she won't have to be present to help? I'm super curious about this. 

Because Mel is at the wall in the books and even warns Jon that this is coming, I just assumed she would resurrect him.  I honestly thought when the show had her run into the Brotherhood of Banners and learned that it had indeed been done, I thought that was the show runners foreshadowing what she would do to save Jon.

 

However, now I wonder if Bran and the Children of the Forest and forces of the North save Jon.  He might be half Targ, but he has the blood of the First Men in him and he is a warg.  Right now I think his Stark blood runs stronger and that might be what saves him. 

[benteen]

I like the idea that Bran will save Jon but who is to say.  The idea of them burning Jon's body and him rising from the dead is a cool one and would be pretty much the official confirmation of Jon's Targaryen genes.

 

It really doesn't look like we're going to get the Pink Letter.  The book was building up a bastard throwdown between Jon and Ramsay.

[Maximum Taco]

I like the idea that Bran will save Jon but who is to say.  The idea of them burning Jon's body and him rising from the dead is a cool one and would be pretty much the official confirmation of Jon's Targaryen genes.

 

It really doesn't look like we're going to get the Pink Letter.  The book was building up a bastard throwdown between Jon and Ramsay.

 

Why would fire resurrect Jon?

 

He burned just like any normal person when he fought the wight to save Mormont.

[Avaleigh]

Why would fire resurrect Jon?

 

He burned just like any normal person when he fought the wight to save Mormont.

I think the idea is that it could be a one time magical event that is similar to what happened with Dany but I feel like there are still some missing pieces. 

[Maximum Taco]

I think the idea is that it could be a one time magical event that is similar to what happened with Dany but I feel like there are still some missing pieces. 

 

These one time magical events are getting to be very common.

[WearyTraveler]

I agree that burning alone would not do it, but I also think that Melissandre doing it would not be impactful/special enough.  As I posted in the episode thread:

 

The way the resurrections work in the books wouldn't make a Jon resurrection special enough to warrant him AA status.  If Thoros can bring Beric back to life, why isn't Beric considered a possibility for AA? Or anybody else brought back to life by a fire priest / priestess? 

Given AA role and the importance attributed to him, particularly by the worshipers of the burning heart, I think Jon's resurrection needs to be much more spectacular, in order for the characters (and the readers and TV viewers) to grasp its significance.  It can't just be another run of the mill fire priestess resurrection.

 

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It just occurred to me that dragon glass might just do it.  Ghost led Jon to the dragon glass, then Jon gave Sam the dagger with which Sam was able to slay a WW, and we've just got a reminder of all of that in the recent conversation between Stannis and Sam, with Stannis wondering why dragon glass would kill a WW and Sam saying that the Children of the Forest used it to hunt.

 

Sam still has that dagger.  What if he places it in Jon's funeral pyre? What if he also then blows the horn that Jon found with the dragon glass and gave to him?  The magical elements of dragon glass have been established on the show and in the books.  And the show included the discovery of the items in the same fashion it happened in the books.  

 

If this is so, then Ghost persistently led Jon to discover his own salvation.  I kind of dig that.