Supernatural Ending

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, Jakes said:

My early prediction for the end won't be popular on this specific site!  I'll say Castiel's vision from Jack comes true--Jack becomes new God(gets boosted up further thru some supernatural twist) creating the paradise Cas saw as Team Free Will 2.0 defeats Chuck with help of Death, Empty and other allies.  The new God will be one who was raised by Dean, Sam and Cas and so will be much nicer human friendly deity.

The problem with this is, it would mean that all they have gone through since Cas's 'vision' was only to service this ending - Jack as God. All the people Nickifer killed, Sam dying in front of Dean again, Dean sacrificing himself to save Sam and Jack, Mary being killed. All to get to 'paradise' and the teenage  Messiah? No thanks.

I'm still holding out hope they undo Chuck's actions in 14x20 on the whole, have it be a Trickster thing, something, anything, to not have the scenario whereby Jack saves the world play out.

[TheGreenKnight]

I don’t really mind what ending they go for. Whether they die and are in Heaven in the last scene, they die and “rest when they are done” in the Empty, or they drive off into the sunset. Nothing would stop a spinoff or movie from happening, since they can be brought back to life. Whatever happens, Sam and Dean need to be together. Die together, live together, whatever.

On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 9:14 AM, Lemuria said:

I’m voting for the ending for the brothers in Lyra_wing’s “Dust in the Wind.”  

  Hide contents

Two of the new American gods, of the road and the hunt.  And the Impala makes three!

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Oops, I don’t know how that second spoiler tag opened and I can’t seem to get it closed. 

I had a somewhat similar idea. I just finished a series re-watch last week and going through the season with Amara and knowing season 14 ended with Chuck at least appearing to be a “bad” guy, I couldn’t help thinking how much I’d like if Sam and Dean took over the roles of Amara and Chuck respectively at the end of the series, that Chuck and Amara either want to experience what it is to be human (since talking with that old woman made Amara decide not to destroy everything) or perhaps they’re tired and just want to “rest” / die. I only thought of something like that for the ending because, as has been mentioned, characters have died so often on this show and come back + Heaven isn’t what it’s cracked up to be on this show. I think, too, I've read others fanwank in the past about the brothers becoming demigods the way Greek heroes would after all the impressive feats they’ve done, which was the root of the idea for me. The reason it would be satisfying to me is that Chuck walked away from his “job” leaving heaven and humanity to their own devices because he was tired of it. Dean would never walk away. And the reason Amara was attracted to Dean is because she said later that she must’ve unconsciously desired balance and Dean filled the role Chuck once did for her. Of course, Sam would fit the role of the Darkness since his destiny has always been to be the one who causes the Apocalypse / world ending / mass destruction and all that. LOL, poor Sam.

And since I was thinking about this as I watched that season, Amara “killing” Chuck reminded me of that scene (one of the best in the series, imo) not long before Sam breaks the final seal when Dean and Sam fight in the hotel. Come to think of it, Dean’s whole story early on was about keeping Sam from going dark and his overall character is defined by the fact that he defies his appointed fate as Michael's vessel because he loved Sam too much to kill him. Compare that to Chuck who sealed Amara away. And you could go further and compare Dean’s refusal to kill Jack in the 14 finale to how Chuck instead cursed Lucifer with the Mark and then locked him away, too.

If Dean and Sam became the new Chuck and Amara, they could bring back people who’d died. Put Crowley in charge of Hell again, re-create Heaven (a good one instead of a “live inside your little room with happy memories separated from everyone else” thing), make angels who have souls that aren’t assholes, and so on. I 100% doubt this would happen, but I would love it.

[Myrelle]

On 7/6/2019 at 5:06 PM, TheGreenKnight said:

I don’t really mind what ending they go for. Whether they die and are in Heaven in the last scene, they die and “rest when they are done” in the Empty, or they drive off into the sunset. Nothing would stop a spinoff or movie from happening, since they can be brought back to life. Whatever happens, Sam and Dean need to be together. Die together, live together, whatever.

I had a somewhat similar idea. I just finished a series re-watch last week and going through the season with Amara and knowing season 14 ended with Chuck at least appearing to be a “bad” guy, I couldn’t help thinking how much I’d like if Sam and Dean took over the roles of Amara and Chuck respectively at the end of the series, that Chuck and Amara either want to experience what it is to be human (since talking with that old woman made Amara decide not to destroy everything) or perhaps they’re tired and just want to “rest” / die. I only thought of something like that for the ending because, as has been mentioned, characters have died so often on this show and come back + Heaven isn’t what it’s cracked up to be on this show. I think, too, I've read others fanwank in the past about the brothers becoming demigods the way Greek heroes would after all the impressive feats they’ve done, which was the root of the idea for me. The reason it would be satisfying to me is that Chuck walked away from his “job” leaving heaven and humanity to their own devices because he was tired of it. Dean would never walk away. And the reason Amara was attracted to Dean is because she said later that she must’ve unconsciously desired balance and Dean filled the role Chuck once did for her. Of course, Sam would fit the role of the Darkness since his destiny has always been to be the one who causes the Apocalypse / world ending / mass destruction and all that. LOL, poor Sam.

And since I was thinking about this as I watched that season, Amara “killing” Chuck reminded me of that scene (one of the best in the series, imo) not long before Sam breaks the final seal when Dean and Sam fight in the hotel. Come to think of it, Dean’s whole story early on was about keeping Sam from going dark and his overall character is defined by the fact that he defies his appointed fate as Michael's vessel because he loved Sam too much to kill him. Compare that to Chuck who sealed Amara away. And you could go further and compare Dean’s refusal to kill Jack in the 14 finale to how Chuck instead cursed Lucifer with the Mark and then locked him away, too.

If Dean and Sam became the new Chuck and Amara, they could bring back people who’d died. Put Crowley in charge of Hell again, re-create Heaven (a good one instead of a “live inside your little room with happy memories separated from everyone else” thing), make angels who have souls that aren’t assholes, and so on. I 100% doubt this would happen, but I would love it.

I'm not one for wanting the brothers to become Gods or even demigods, but I  have to say that this spec is appealing to me anyway for all of the attention to detail and canon that was mentioned, noticed, and remarked on.

So kudos for that and for this imaginative spec that it hatched.

But yeah, I doubt that the present set of writers/showrunners will go this route. 

I'm thinking if the brothers do die, we'll be left with it being a complete mystery as to their fate in the afterlife, because that's the extent of the originality that's present in the current writers' room, AFAIC.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Myrelle
Revision

[trudysmom]

What I would like, so it will likely never happen, is for Billie to kill Chuck.  OG Death told Dean he would one day reap God, so as the new Death, she should/could do it.  Beyond that, nothing that happens to the brothers will make me happy, unless it's driving off into the sunset in Baby.  

[foxfreakinmulder]

On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 2:06 PM, TheGreenKnight said:

If Dean and Sam became the new Chuck and Amara, they could bring back people who’d died. Put Crowley in charge of Hell again, re-create Heaven (a good one instead of a “live inside your little room with happy memories separated from everyone else” thing), make angels who have souls that aren’t assholes, and so on. I 100% doubt this would happen, but I would love it.

Oooh this is good. I would love to see this. Or the tail lights of baby as they drive off into the sunset. But since the writers stinks I'm sure the ending will too.

[TheGreenKnight]

2 hours ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

Oooh this is good. I would love to see this. Or the tail lights of baby as they drive off into the sunset. But since the writers stinks I'm sure the ending will too.

I actually think of it as a sort of combo of the two. Even as the Light and Darkness, I think they would still ramble across the country the way they’ve always done. I see them “running things” in a laidback way that’s in alliance with Rowena, Crowley, Billie, and Castiel. No way they would be sitting on thrones somewhere. :P Castiel/Jack could be a go-between with Heaven and Crowley with Hell. Perhaps all these near-worldending scenarios the brothers have had to put a stop to could be written off as Chuck testing whether they could really handle the "job."

I like to believe that even if the ending isn't great, that it can't be truly awful as long as we have the actors' performances. :)

[ahrtee]

15 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I like to believe that even if the ending isn't great, that it can't be truly awful as long as we have the actors' performances. :)

If you have Lawrence Olivier playing Donald Duck, you may appreciate the performance but it doesn't make a good show.  There's only so much you can do with crap writing.  

[FlickChick]

On 7/7/2019 at 9:28 PM, trudysmom said:

What I would like, so it will likely never happen, is for Billie to kill Chuck.  OG Death told Dean he would one day reap God, so as the new Death, she should/could do it.  Beyond that, nothing that happens to the brothers will make me happy, unless it's driving off into the sunset in Baby.  

There are many who would like your finale scenario. However, I think that any show that has had 13 (and 1/2) seasons of "Carry On My Wayward Son" with the line "there'll" be peace when you are done"as the show's season finale song, should have a show finale that fulfills that line. To me, that means showing the boys finished with hunting, finished with their lives. And then they get their final "peace" in a special place in heaven with family/friends as a reward for protecting the world from demons and monsters. Obviously, just my preferred scenario.

[AwesomO4000]

4 hours ago, FlickChick said:

However, I think that any show that has had 13 (and 1/2) seasons of "Carry On My Wayward Son" with the line "there'll" be peace when you are done"as the show's season finale song, should have a show finale that fulfills that line. To me, that means showing the boys finished with hunting, finished with their lives.

I pretty much agree, which is why my fantasy ending for the series (on the previous page of this topic) pretty much describes a similar kind of scenario.

[trudysmom]

14 hours ago, FlickChick said:

And then they get their final "peace" in a special place in heaven with family/friends as a reward for protecting the world from demons and monsters.

Agreed.  In S5, Dark Side of the Moon, Dean's Heaven was in Baby, driving down a country road.  Granted, Sam's was very different, but maybe in the years since their ideal heavens are nearer the same.  Whatever happens I know 2 things, I very likely won't like it, and I'll never find another show that effects me the way this one has, and for so long.   

[Casseiopeia]

2 hours ago, trudysmom said:

Whatever happens I know 2 things, I very likely won't like it, and I'll never find another show that effects me the way this one has, and for so long.   

Truth!

[Bobcatkitten]

I feel a little bad for the writers. Because the likelihood they will nail this ending is slim. This fandom is so invested and for so long that it can't possibly make everyone happy. I haven't in my head imagined what I think would be a good ending so I am not disappointed. And honestly, depending on how the season goes, I could see it going different ways and I would be fine. 

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I feel a little bad for the writers. Because the likelihood they will nail this ending is slim. This fandom is so invested and for so long that it can't possibly make everyone happy. I haven't in my head imagined what I think would be a good ending so I am not disappointed. And honestly, depending on how the season goes, I could see it going different ways and I would be fine. 

TBH, it's not the ending itself I'm worrying about.  There aren't that many ways to go:  either the boys live or die (or ascend/descend), and there are many options for either.  IA that there's no way to make everyone happy, whichever way they choose.

What I'm worried about is *how* they get there.  They have 20 episodes before the actual End, and I don't want 19 episodes of Jack and/or WS, or even random appearances by "fan favorites" (though how they decide who those are depends, I guess, on availability and who they feel like writing for.)  I want a *good* storyline for the boys; one that leads up to logically and inevitably to whatever the end will be, with the boys as the heroes and the side characters actually stay, well, on the side.    

But with how much they've invested in setting up the Jack/Nickifer/angels/WS stories, I'm horribly afraid that they will be the focus of the vast majority of the eps, with everyone else hovering in the background to give support (or try--ineffectually--to kill them.)  And maybe a few MoWs thrown in for the boys to hunt, to show that the writers still remember they exist.  

No matter how good (or bad) the final scenes are, I (selfishly) want a whole *and coherent* season devoted to the Winchesters, to remind us of the boys we fell in love with way back when.  

Edited July 14, 2019 by ahrtee

[gonzosgirrl]

My initial, gut reaction to the original announcement was to wish/hope for a movie or mini-series down the road, but as I've grown more used to the idea of it ending, I've changed my mind. As much as I will miss Dean Winchester with the heat of the sun, I think I really want a definitive ending. Fifteen years is a long time, a Hollywood lifetime, to invest in a story, in a character, and if Jensen and Jared do plan to continue in the industry, I think it's better to let Dean and Sam 'lay their weary heads to rest' and have some peace. I don't know exactly what that means, but I want to know what their fate is when it's over. No after-the-credits teasers, no Sopranos' style fade to black. A real ending.

[gonzosgirrl]

8 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

No matter how good (or bad) the final scenes are, I (selfishly) want a whole *and coherent* season devoted to the Winchesters, to remind us of the boys we fell in love with way back when.  

Amen and hallelujah. I got, let's call it scolded (lol) on Twitter for my good/better/best option of the two brothers in the Impala at the end, but as much as a concentrated group of fans were appalled by it, it is the single most 'liked' thing I've ever tweeted. So I don't think we're alone in wanting a Winchester focused season, and for them to be the heroes in their own story. Of course Castiel has a place, and I would not want them to ignore him - but let it be working with the boys. And please, if we must have Jack, let him be the side character he should be, not the hero, not the savior, and please, NOT NEW!GOD.

[FlickChick]

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Amen and hallelujah. I got, let's call it scolded (lol) on Twitter for my good/better/best option of the two brothers in the Impala at the end, but as much as a concentrated group of fans were appalled by it, it is the single most 'liked' thing I've ever tweeted. So I don't think we're alone in wanting a Winchester focused season, and for them to be the heroes in their own story. Of course Castiel has a place, and I would not want them to ignore him - but let it be working with the boys. And please, if we must have Jack, let him be the side character he should be, not the hero, not the savior, and please, NOT NEW!GOD.

1000 times this entire post. I hope that even the Jack!girls realize that this story of the Winchesters existed for 12 seasons before Jack was even introduced. Dean and Sam must be the focus, the heroes, and the writers have to find a way to make them the focus of the entire season. Of course Castiel and Jack will have scenes along with other various characters, but as you mentioned - not the main arc, not the main focus for Jack - we've spent too much time on his story in the two years he's been on the show already. Time for Jack to take a back seat to the two main characters: and their names are Dean and Sam Winchester!

[Wynne88]

As much as I agree that the focus of the last season should be on Sam and Dean, there is still the reality that they only work a few days a week.  It's very hard to maintain a story line that is about people who aren't in 40% (roughly) of the scenes.  If it's about them, but it's Cas and/or Jack doing the actual on-screen stuff, is that going to satisfy people?

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Wynne88 said:

As much as I agree that the focus of the last season should be on Sam and Dean, there is still the reality that they only work a few days a week.  It's very hard to maintain a story line that is about people who aren't in 40% (roughly) of the scenes.  If it's about them, but it's Cas and/or Jack doing the actual on-screen stuff, is that going to satisfy people?

I'm betting that's not the case now that the end is here. 

And honestly, no, that will not satisfy me at all. 

[Casseiopeia]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm betting that's not the case now that the end is here. 

And honestly, no, that will not satisfy me at all. 

I think depending on who is writing the episodes will dictate whether or not the guys participate.  If they can score some of the writers of the past (i.e. Edlund) I am going to guess they will be available.

[Wynne88]

Isn't their availability based on their contract, which I assume is already in place?  Can they work more hours than they are contracted for, if they so choose?  I have no idea how this works.

Don't get me wrong; I would love to see a return to the early days.  But with their families and other commitments, I'm just not sure how realistic that is.  

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

Isn't their availability based on their contract, which I assume is already in place?  Can they work more hours than they are contracted for, if they so choose?  I have no idea how this works.

Don't get me wrong; I would love to see a return to the early days.  But with their families and other commitments, I'm just not sure how realistic that is.  

I can't imagine they want the same schedule and a solid story for the boys.  I would expect that their time will be more on the show since the end is here. I would expect that to have already been in the negotiations for the end of the show.

[Ninamags]

 Those actors wanting more time off to be with their families is such a load of crap. Only when it’s convenient for them to trot out that excuse.  

Apparently more family time includes going to overseas conventions and to the Caribbean and to Cuba and to the Swiss Alps and who knows where else, sans kids, of course. 

I think that  part of the reason the show started going to shit was when they started giving the leads the time off that they wanted.

Well, no shit the J’s have such crap storylines, how can they write more material for them when they only work 3 or 4 days a week???  That’s why those opportunistic losers Collins and the other idiot have been able to see so much more material and story lines and thus more screen time, the actual stars can’t be bothered to do more.

Hopefully they decide that they can make an extreme sacrifice for the good of the show and actually involve themselves with the storylines and more screen time to go with it now that they are at the end. 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Ninamags

[NougatJack]

2 hours ago, Ninamags said:

 Those actors wanting more time off to be with their families is such a load of crap. Only when it’s convenient for them to trot out that excuse.  

Apparently more family time includes going to overseas conventions and to the Caribbean and to Cuba and to the Swiss Alps and who knows where else, sans kids, of course. 

They get paid very well for those conventions. As long as fans pay more than 100 dollars for a foto with Jared or Jensen, which ony takes less than a minute, it´s no wonder that they would rather do the conventions.

[catrox14]

creative writers can write shorter arcs that still focus on Sam and Dean.

They don't take off extra time for the conventions as those happen on weekends. Comic Con is basically required by the network. They may work 4 days a week but they film 12 to 15 hours a day.
 

3 hours ago, Ninamags said:

 Those actors wanting more time off to be with their families is such a load of crap. Only when it’s convenient for them to trot out that excuse.  

Apparently more family time includes going to overseas conventions and to the Caribbean and to Cuba and to the Swiss Alps and who knows where else, sans kids, of course. 

I think that  part of the reason the show started going to shit was when they started giving the leads the time off that they wanted.

Well, no shit the J’s have such crap storylines, how can they write more material for them when they only work 3 or 4 days a week???  That’s why those opportunistic losers Collins and the other idiot have been able to see so much more material and story lines and thus more screen time, the actual stars can’t be bothered to do more. 

Hopefully they decide that they can make an extreme sacrifice for the good of the show and actually involve themselves with the storylines and more screen time to go with it now that they are at the end. 

weekends

[ILoveReading]

IMO, the excuse the show can't be about Sam and Dean becasue they aren't on screen enough is BS, and just show how bad the writers are. 

Alex isn't even in every episode but they can obviously still make the show revolve around Jack for every year. 

Sam and Dean don't need to be on screen for the show to revolve around them.  Example- the AU hunters, they could have wanted Sam and Dean dead feeling like they're responsible for releasing Lucifer and Michael.  Give a couple of them recurring status and show scenes of them plotting things.  

The should be able to compensate for Jared and Jensen working less hours, because they're still in every episode.

[Myrelle]

42 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

IMO, the excuse the show can't be about Sam and Dean becasue they aren't on screen enough is BS, and just show how bad the writers are. 

Alex isn't even in every episode but they can obviously still make the show revolve around Jack for every year

ITA with this. 

[Ninamags]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

creative writers can write shorter arcs that still focus on Sam and Dean.

Yeah, creative writers, which these guys are most definitely not.

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

They don't take off extra time for the conventions as those happen on weekends.

 Right, time that they could ostensibly be spending with their kids but the money is too good to pass up. So I guess they need time off during the week to spend with their families. 🙄

[Casseiopeia]

Just now, Ninamags said:

 Right, time that they could ostensibly be spending with their kids but the money is too good to pass up. 

Yeah bills area a bitch.

[ahrtee]

24 minutes ago, Ninamags said:

 Right, time that they could ostensibly be spending with their kids but the money is too good to pass up. So I guess they need time off during the week to spend with their families. 🙄

Hmm...spending a few weekends traveling to interesting places, hanging out with friends and getting all the appreciation and love from fans (and thus promoting the show), as opposed to sitting in a studio for 15 hours a day waiting to perform a few lines over and over?  What a terrible idea.  

And earning extra money to support the family after the show is over sounds pretty logical to me.  It's not like they're using the money for wine, women and song.  ☺️

Remember that they've given us 14 years of daily grind...would you be able to work 12-15 hours every day for 12 years without finally saying, 'hey, now that I'm nearly 40, can we cut it down a little'?  It's a question of energy as well as family.  You can do a lot (and put up with a lot) more when you're in your 20s than your 40s.

But the main point is that working 4 days a week instead of 5 doesn't mean that they're no longer the focus of the show.  Shooting can be rearranged to fit more into those 4 days without taking away from screen time.   And, as others have pointed out, they're still on screen more than any other character.  It's the writing that's taken the focus away from them, not the fact that they're not there physically.  Half the actual screen time they've had in the last few years has been hand-wringing over someone else, whether Jack or Mary or Cas, or being rescued by others while they sit around looking helpless.  They've become pointless in their own story, even when they're there, so I have no problem with them getting a few breaks or even giving up entirely. 

But I still want the final season to focus on them, NOT the side characters, and it could be done IF the writers and showrunners wanted to.  It's obvious they don't, and that's what makes me furious. 

[Jonesy]

There is nothing in their contracts that say the J's work only 3 to 4 days--they got less episodes and other characters in the show for that.  Both J's have said having more characters in the show is good for Sam and Dean--to have something to bounce off of.  

The show is still about the boys not Jack or Cas--they revolve around the boys not vice versa.  

Edited July 15, 2019 by Jakes

[Ninamags]

41 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Remember that they've given us 14 years of daily grind...would you be able to work 12-15 hours every day for 12 years without finally saying, 'hey, now that I'm nearly 40, can we cut it down a little'? 

But they don't work 12-15 hours a day.  They hurry up and wait for most of  those hours. They aren't picking fields or washing cars for those hours.  Let's not kid ourselves. 

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, Jakes said:

There is nothing in their contracts that say the J's work only 3 to 4 days--they got less episodes and other characters in the show for that.  Both J's have said having more characters in the show is good for Sam and Dean--to have something to bounce off of.  

The show is still about the boys not Jack or Cas--they revolve around the boys not vice versa.  

Taken to the appropriate thread.

[ahrtee]

1 minute ago, Ninamags said:

But they don't work 12-15 hours a day.  They hurry up and wait for most of  those hours. They aren't picking fields or washing cars for those hours.  Let's not kid ourselves. 

I guess you've never spent multiple hours just sitting around waiting for  someone to tell you to do something.  It may not be as physically difficult as picking fields but it's certainly mind numbing.  Even a few times was more than enough for me.   I can't imagine 14 years of it, no matter how good the pay. 

[gonzosgirrl]

8 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I guess you've never spent multiple hours just sitting around waiting for  someone to tell you to do something.  It may not be as physically difficult as picking fields but it's certainly mind numbing.  Even a few times was more than enough for me.   I can't imagine 14 years of it, no matter how good the pay. 

I never got the impression that the hard work was in any way responsible for them asking for more time off. When the story was great, and about them, they were (or seemed) enthusiastic about it - the product was worth the sacrifice (living in Vancouver) and the effort. To do all that and be handed storylines  (or have storylines undermined and/or stolen from you) such as they have under Dabb/Singer, that's tiresome. And that's, in my opinion, why they called it quits.

[ahrtee]

9 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I never got the impression that the hard work was in any way responsible for them asking for more time off.

I wasn't saying that hard work was the reason they asked for more time off.  I was replying to the statement that sitting around waiting to be called for most of a day *isn't* hard work. 😐

ETA:  But I can still understand why they might want to spend less time sitting around the studio and more time outside with family and other business activities after all this time.

Edited July 15, 2019 by ahrtee

[Jonesy]

I know some disagree here--but i'll continue to say the J's quit because 15 years is too long for almost any actor and not because of dislike of where the show is going...imo that is projection from fans who personally don't like where the show is going and project it to the J's.   When I hear one of the J's directly say they quit because of Dabb or the writers then i'll believe it AND not because of some surmising by fans who really don't know them.  I'll only buy it from the J's themselves.

[ahrtee]

23 minutes ago, Jakes said:

I know some disagree here--but i'll continue to say the J's quit because 15 years is too long for almost any actor and not because of dislike of where the show is going...imo that is projection from fans who personally don't like where the show is going and project it to the J's.   When I hear one of the J's directly say they quit because of Dabb or the writers then i'll believe it AND not because of some surmising by fans who really don't know them.  I'll only buy it from the J's themselves.

I don't think either of the Js is going to be pointing fingers specifically right now (they still have to work with Dabb etal and probably don't want a reputation for throwing anyone under the bus.)  But I remember Jensen saying at the 300th ep party (can't remember the exact quote right now and I don't have time to go through all the party videos) when asked how long the show can keep going, something like: "we'll stay as long as the stories are there."  That was November 2018.  By March 2019 they were calling it quits.  That seems to indicate that they didn't think the writing was what they wanted.  

[PAForrest]

40 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I don't think either of the Js is going to be pointing fingers specifically right now (they still have to work with Dabb etal and probably don't want a reputation for throwing anyone under the bus.)  But I remember Jensen saying at the 300th ep party (can't remember the exact quote right now and I don't have time to go through all the party videos) when asked how long the show can keep going, something like: "we'll stay as long as the stories are there."  That was November 2018.  By March 2019 they were calling it quits.  That seems to indicate that they didn't think the writing was what they wanted.  

Plus the fact is that the Js never ever pulled out the #1 on the playbook excuse that "more time with family" was the sole reason they were quitting, when that would have been very easy peasy to do. Instead right after the announcement they were very clear that they felt the "writing was on the wall" and it was time to put "the dog down". In other words, sometime after the 300th episode they decided the stories weren't there anymore.

No, they aren't going to name names and point fingers - they're too professional for that. But once again facts come into play, and it is Dabb and Singer who are currently steering the ship that the Js ultimately decided they finally wanted to disembark from.

I'm sure a variety of reasons played into their decision to call it quits now, and not just one specific thing or person. But the Js didn't shy away from indicating that storytelling was one of those reasons.

[ILoveReading]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

In other words, sometime after the 300th episode they decided the stories weren't there anymore. 

I agree.  

Even at comic con last year, during an interview, Jensen said they have the discussion every year but there had never been a finality to it.  There was still a lot of enthusiasm at the 300th.  I believe it was Jensen who said" no end in sight.  ;"

So unless they were lying or misleading fans, something changed in those few months.  While more time with their families was a factor, I don't think it was the only one. 

There have been comments (like the dog one, and the writing on the wall comment) that make me wonder if they have issues with the writing, but also sometimes its what not being said.  Silence can speak louder than words sometimes

Jensen has all but disappeared on Social Media, and Jared has scaled way back.

Edited July 15, 2019 by ILoveReading

[auntvi]

5 hours ago, PAForrest said:

"writing was on the wall" and it was time to put "the dog down"

I can't remember if the quotes are from Jensen or Jared or both, but that right there sounds like they were unhappy with the show - whether it was the showrunner or the writing.

[Jonesy]

On 7/15/2019 at 1:44 PM, ahrtee said:

I don't think either of the Js is going to be pointing fingers specifically right now (they still have to work with Dabb etal and probably don't want a reputation for throwing anyone under the bus.)  But I remember Jensen saying at the 300th ep party (can't remember the exact quote right now and I don't have time to go through all the party videos) when asked how long the show can keep going, something like: "we'll stay as long as the stories are there."  That was November 2018.  By March 2019 they were calling it quits.  That seems to indicate that they didn't think the writing was what they wanted.  

I get what you are saying--to me though what Jensen said is just actor boiler plate cliche to just to give nothing real away.   I think in the end 15 years was them being generous to fans and crew by even going a few more years than they ideally may have wanted...think this was a long time coming.  IMO going say beyond 11, 12 years was probably detrimental a little for them--but they liked the whole crew and fans so pushed forward a couple extra years.

[gonzosgirrl]

From the TCA's

http://www.givememyremote.com/remote/2019/08/04/the-cw-at-tca-executive-session-live-blog-4/

Quote

9:40 AM: “All I can tell you is Jared, Jensen, Peter Roth…and myself had a very, very long, sad, heartbreaking discussion,” Pedowitz says. “We all came to understand what the guys were going to do. They wanted to go out while it was relevant, they wanted to be with their families, and see what else is out in the world.”

Quote

9:49 AM: Will there be another take on SUPERNATURAL’s spinoff? “I’ve been involved in two spinoffs that didn’t connect,” Pedowitz says. He says there has been no conversations and the show’s “essence and blood is Jared and Jensen.”

Edited August 4, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[SueB]

Nice that Pedowitz makes it clear it was J2's decision:
 

Quote

9:40 AM: “All I can tell you is Jared, Jensen, Peter Roth…and myself had a very, very long, sad, heartbreaking discussion,” Pedowitz says. “We all came to understand what the guys were going to do. They wanted to go out while it was relevant, they wanted to be with their families, and see what else is out in the world.”

jokes:
 

Quote

CW Prez Mark Pedowitz says if we can convince the #Supernatural crew to come back, he's open to them staying on the network. :) #TCA19 #CW #SPN

on spinoff:

Quote

9:49 AM: Will there be another take on SUPERNATURAL’s spinoff? “I’ve been involved in two spinoffs that didn’t connect,” Pedowitz says. He says there has been no conversations and the show’s “essence and blood is Jared and Jensen.”

[gonzosgirrl]

Nice to see that he knows and appreciates that Jensen and Jared are the heart and soul of the show.

[Aeryn13]

10 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Nice to see that he knows and appreciates that Jensen and Jared are the heart and soul of the show.

In one of the press room interviews from SDCC, Dabb was also asked about another spin-off attempt and he all but said as verbatim that the network doesn`t want one (from him). I chuckled. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, Aeryn13 said:

In one of the press room interviews from SDCC, Dabb was also asked about another spin-off attempt and he all but said as verbatim that the network doesn`t want one (from him). I chuckled. 

I hope he get that kind of answer about everything, going forward. Yes, I'm a bitter woman.

[Aeryn13]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I hope he get that kind of answer about everything, going forward. Yes, I'm a bitter woman.

Three CW shows I watch will end now next Season and I`m nervous/fretful of all the endings. And my fave character in either one hasn`t always been treated the best but I still have some modicum of faith in 2 out of 3 doing at least an ending that is respectful to the characters. And neither of those two is SPN.  😞

[PAForrest]

16 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Nice to see that he knows and appreciates that Jensen and Jared are the heart and soul of the show.

Yeah, I always got the impression that Pedowitz was really never on board with a spin-off, which seems very clear now, because in his opinion there isn't a show without the Js/Winchesters. Plus he's seen the results from Dabb and Berens, so there's that.

I just wish he was a little more hands-on with Dabb and Singer as to the final season being one that focuses on the brothers without whom there was never a show.

He confirms it was always the Js decision, but I don't believe I've ever seen anyone say otherwise. They were upfront from the first announcement that it was their decision.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, PAForrest said:

Yeah, I always got the impression that Pedowitz was really never on board with a spin-off, which seems very clear now, because in his opinion there isn't a show without the Js/Winchesters. Plus he's seen the results from Dabb and Berens, so there's that.

I just wish he was a little more hands-on with Dabb and Singer as to the final season being one that focuses on the brothers without whom there was never a show.

He confirms it was always the Js decision, but I don't believe I've ever seen anyone say otherwise. They were upfront from the first announcement that it was their decision.

If he cares about future revenue from their streaming platforms, he'll (hopefully) make sure they don't end it in a way that will ensure (some) fans never want to re-watch it again.

[ILoveReading]

18 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

Yeah, I always got the impression that Pedowitz was really never on board with a spin-off, which seems very clear now, because in his opinion there isn't a show without the Js/Winchesters. Plus he's seen the results from Dabb and Berens, so there's that. 

I just wish he was a little more hands-on with Dabb and Singer as to the final season being one that focuses on the brothers without whom there was never a show.

He confirms it was always the Js decision, but I don't believe I've ever seen anyone say otherwise. They were upfront from the first announcement that it was their decision.

His reception of Wayward was lukewarm at best.  I think it was something like, Kathryn is a rising star and Donna is funny. 

If watching Guest star natural these last 3 seasons is what watching a spinoff would be like, I wouldn't have tuned in.

http://www.givememyremote.com/remote/2019/08/04/supernatural-finale-special-arrow-the-cw/

It looks like they are giving SPN a tribute ep like they gave Jane the Virgin