S08.E12: You Give Love A Bad Name

[krbr51]

Ugh.  I would really love to see Kate get angry at Luke.  As soon as she did, he would run.  Guaranteed he can't handle it.  

So let me see if I have this right.  She drinks.  And anytime she drinks...ever, it's a turn-off for him.  But he sleeps with her anyway.  Then, because he is so repulsed with her drinking, whenever it occurred, he runs away.  For multiple hours.  Oh, and nobody is allowed to know.  

But she's the "bad guy" for asking for help.  

During Unfiltered both Pepper and Jasmine looked like they could have punched him.  More than once!!

[Crazy Bird Lady]

2 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

That very last 2-second shot of the Martini Glass Hot Tub with Keith looking at Kristine? Whatever was on his face---lust, love, admiration, gratitude---it was REAL. I think he'll want to stay married!

Yeah, but I think Kristine has decided he's not good enough for her.

We'll see, on D-Day.

[aphroditewitch]

5 minutes ago, ChristmasJones said:

Just throwing this out there --

Is it possible that Kate did get overtly drunk on the honeymoon and put excessive pressure on Luke to have sex?

And since this is a total stranger, it was a major, major turn off to him.

But he didn't want to admit this openly (to experts/etc), and it made him feel highly ambivalent to her, so he just kept acting strange and hot/cold toward her.

Then, despite this, at other times when she came on to him, he gave in because he wanted to have sex (not because of feelings for her), and he knows this is wrong, so he told her not to tell anyone.

I guess my point is..... could there be a tiny kernel of truth about what he is saying?

There is no way for us to know, But going by his own words, if Kate was drunk and he was sober but they still had sex, that was wrong of him because there are legal questions as to whether she could consent to that. The fact that he has repeatedly made her feel bad about their sex life hammers that home. Frankly if Luke was actually concerned about anything in terms of sex, he should have said something. He certainly had no problem going to the producers with his claims about Kate's drinking even if the evidence of her having a drinking problem is questionable. 

[Lily247]

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

Not to be mean, but I can see why Kate is not married.  She has no umpf in her.  A man wants a little challenge, not a door mat.  And Luke is a pompous ass.  Very sickening match.

I dont know, for every personality type thete is a guy who is into that, and not all guys want a fiery spitfire, but many would definitely be happy with a woman as chill, laidback, and easygoing as Kate. Her low self esteem os unfortunate for her though. 

[ChristmasJones]

35 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

There is no way for us to know, But going by his own words, if Kate was drunk and he was sober but they still had sex, that was wrong of him because there are legal questions as to whether she could consent to that. The fact that he has repeatedly made her feel bad about their sex life hammers that home. Frankly if Luke was actually concerned about anything in terms of sex, he should have said something. He certainly had no problem going to the producers with his claims about Kate's drinking even if the evidence of her having a drinking problem is questionable. 

Ok... but those are things he SHOULD have done. 

 Is there a reason we should assume that Luke would do the right/legal/moral thing?  

(not directing this at you personally, just using your comment to make the point).

I guess I am interested in if there is something more nuanced about their relationship than just he is a jerk/she is a nice girl.  I'm genuinely curious about what is causing him to act in the way he does.

As for Kate, I also wonder if one of the reasons she is not more forceful about the whole topic is that maybe she does become an asshole when she drinks. This does happen. People can seem one way and then once they get enough alcohol in them, another side can come out. Some are funny/affectionate/sloppy drunks, and some can get aggressive and mean.

----

This now reminds me of a trip I once took with some college friends, a few years after college. We came back to the hotel after a night of heavy drinking and one of these ladies turned into a demon - screaming and trying to attack us. The other friend and I ended up locked in the bathroom to protect ourselves from her.  I had never seen her act like that before and if you had asked me before that night if she was capable, I would have said you're crazy. 

--

I'm also open to the idea that Kate has always drank a normal amount of alcohol, it has not affected her behavior, and that all references to it are a distortion in Luke's mind.

Edited March 20, 2019 by ChristmasJones

[Retired at last]

But even after they have had sex, then he gets "weird" and leaves the room and has to be alone for whatever reason, so even when they do, it is not affectionate or loving. So, when he feels like being the good guy and tells her he will do it, she gets all happy and then he leaves. I was glad she kind of talked to him, but then when she agreed that he was right, I was furious! I am afraid I am done with her. Her monotone baby voice is so hard to take and she is just so insecure (with good reason), but if he tells her they are fine, then she gets all happy again and thinks she found her soulmate. I just hope that it is Kate who pulls the plug, but we all know it won't be and he will blame it on her drinking and she will take the blame.

I do feel sorry for Jasmine tonight and going forward. He still thinks there is time to take things slow and he said he would love to be in love with her. He just isn't there yet. 

I haven't seen the long preview for next week - it doesn't come on here for another 30 minutes. But, after seeing the edits from even what they have been showing all week, like the conversation in the car, it really doesn't matter.

How many more weeks do we have?

[princelina]

18 minutes ago, ChristmasJones said:

Ok... but those are things he SHOULD have done. 

 Is there a reason we should assume that Luke would do the right/legal/moral thing?  

(not directing this at you personally, just using your comment to make the point).

I guess I am interested in if there is something more nuanced about their relationship than just he is a jerk/she is a nice girl.  I'm genuinely curious about what is causing him to act in the way he does.

As for Kate, I also wonder if one of the reasons she is not more forceful about the whole topic is that maybe she does become an asshole when she drinks. This does happen. People can seem one way and then once they get enough alcohol in them, another side can come out. Some are funny/affectionate/sloppy drunks, and some can get aggressive and mean.

----

This now reminds me of a trip I once took with some college friends, a few years after college. We came back to the hotel after a night of heavy drinking and one of these ladies turned into a demon - screaming and trying to attack us. The other friend and I ended up locked in the bathroom to protect ourselves from her.  I had never seen her act like that before and if you had asked me before that night if she was capable, I would have said you're crazy. 

--

I'm also open to the idea that Kate has always drank a normal amount of alcohol, it has not affected her behavior, and that all references to it are a distortion in Luke's mind.

From what has been said (and they both seem to agree on) Kate drinks and tries to initiate sex.  If he doesn't want it I can see where he'd be annoyed, but there have been no indications that she's an asshole or crazy or abusive or anything like that. (Also, there's that whole story about Luke getting so drunk he was throwing up and didn't make it home!  And he bought her wine as a gift! If it weren't for his constant whining about her drinking I would think they were both just young enough to be in that drinking phase of life).

If it were me - my pride could not handle getting turned down as often as they imply she does; if he's not into her for whatever reason I'm sure it gets annoying to him that she keeps trying to do it.  But she says he acts nice and cuddles and she gets mixed signals.  I've found him to be gross and a jerk since the first episode, but when they were with the others and the guys were cooking dinner he seemed to be relaxed and having fun and for the first time I could see what she means about liking him (since she finds him attractive, which I do not.)

[Soup333]

1 hour ago, ChristmasJones said:

Just throwing this out there --

Is it possible that Kate did get overtly drunk on the honeymoon and put excessive pressure on Luke to have sex?

And since this is a total stranger, it was a major, major turn off to him.

But he didn't want to admit this openly (to experts/etc), and it made him feel highly ambivalent to her, so he just kept acting strange and hot/cold toward her.

Then, despite this, at other times when she came on to him, he gave in because he wanted to have sex (not because of feelings for her), and he knows this is wrong, so he told her not to tell anyone.

I guess my point is..... could there be a tiny kernel of truth about what he is saying?

How do we reconcile his version with hers? According to her he will initiate and then she’ll ask him if he’s going to be okay afterwards. He assures her he will, they have sex and then he isolates himself for hours. This is a repeated pattern. So is Luke initiating sex with a woman too intoxicated to consent? Kate is aware enough to question him but still drunk enough to make him uncomfortable? 

None of this makes sense. 

If Luke felt pressured into drunken sex on the honeymoon that explains that one time. That does not explain him wanting to sleep with her on any occasion after. If he is truly that repulsed by her drinking and how she pressures him when she’s drunk why would he have backed off of his accusation that she has a problem? Why has he continued to give her alcohol? 

I’m sick with the flu and my head’s been feeling like it’s underwater but I wasn’t born yesterday. I don’t believe Luke as far as I could toss his suspenders. 

[LennieBriscoe]

Isn't Kate's being drunk on the honeymoon a hypothetical? 

Besides which,  Luke's comments on Kate's drinking cannot be his ultimate basis for lack of attraction to his bride.  He was turned off at the altar,  and Kate surely wasn't snockered then. 

I'm coming around to the notion that Luke is gay. Here's a man who has a BUSINESS dealing with single women looking for mates,  and he couldn't find a suitable girlfriend! Or maybe he didn't know how to,  how to approach a woman,  how to court her,  how to be romantic and/or seductive---with a female. 

But he thought maybe he should marry,  for whatever personal (and business) reasons. So voila--- MAFS and Instant Bride! No mess, no fuss!

But actually BEING a man married to a woman? In public he can pretend. In private he is "repulsed and feels dead inside" from any intimacy; then hides in isolation after sex, an action that suggests regret and an immediate need to "process" his feelings.

Then, because he IS repulsed (and maybe with himself, in truth),  Luke REACTS in a nasty manner: he tells Kate, in total contradiction to the show's demands, to keep their "love" lives a big secret; gaslights her (brings her wine!); snidely finds fault (with Kate's hygiene, meal decisions, drinking, and clothing choices: you know, daily living!); and ignores her when he has his friends visit.

AJ didn't make any "gay" wisecracks about either Keith or (irony!) Will; just Luke. Snark,  or Sixth Sense?

Edited March 20, 2019 by LennieBriscoe

[STRIDER1]

8 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

I'm so tired of hearing about how AJ doesn't want to eat alone again. 

Oh yeah, you and me both lol 😂

At this point its super annoying beyond annoying

Every time he says that, I just want to throw the remote thru the !#$@%& tv screen

By last count, I'm now on my 18th tv hahaha

[STRIDER1]

On a side note, MAFS sure has gotten super duper cheap this season.

Their budget must have been cut by 75% to have to include all 4 guys and/or gals into every single possible conceivable event.

Events that in previous seasons were held separately for each individual guy/gal or couple.

Joint bachelor parties for all 4 guys, so the show will only have to pay for 1 set of strippers instead of 4 sets of strippers and 4 separate parties/locations

Joint location for the couples mini-moon so that the show only has to pay for 1 house instead of 4 locations/rooms

Right now thats all I can currently think of, off the top of my head but I'm sure that there were so many more other times that they have done this joint scenario thingy this season for no reason other than to just reduce the costs involved as opposed to having the events separate like it used to

[STRIDER1]

On another side note, I may or may not be the only one here but I really really really want this season to just end already. Just start the next season so that we can finally forget about the philly group ! lol

Kate and puke = total disaster and cant watch anymore shenanigans between the 2. its just  insanity on top of more insanity

Will and jasmine = mega boring, so yeah wake me up when he leaves her. zzzzzzzz zzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzz

Keith and Kristine = chronic farting man child going up against a self described queen of her own imagination. their blinking contest will determine who will lose first versus who loses second hahaha

Aj and steph =  cant take anymore his behavior/personality, nor steph's eyebrows. i swear i get hypnotized every time i try not to stare into that void abyss

This season truly sucks IMO so just hurry up and bring on the new group of victims, I mean hopefuls lmao hahaha lol

[Drogo]

I have known a lot of dudes. I have never known a dude who walked away from a vacation in a single family home with 6 other people and felt like he and his wife "had plenty of alone time."

Neither has Kate. 

You're worthless, Luke. 

[Drogo]

This gaslighting pencildick's hat really says OBEY...

Is there anything more punchable than this face/hat combination?

He looks like Fagin from Oliver Twist, if Fagin had a Hollister rewards card and erectile dysfunction. 

[Mazzy]

7 hours ago, ChristmasJones said:

Just throwing this out there --

Is it possible that Kate did get overtly drunk on the honeymoon and put excessive pressure on Luke to have sex?

And since this is a total stranger, it was a major, major turn off to him.

But he didn't want to admit this openly (to experts/etc), and it made him feel highly ambivalent to her, so he just kept acting strange and hot/cold toward her.

Then, despite this, at other times when she came on to him, he gave in because he wanted to have sex (not because of feelings for her), and he knows this is wrong, so he told her not to tell anyone.

I guess my point is..... could there be a tiny kernel of truth about what he is saying?

I was thinking this EXACT same thing! I think people are SO wanting Luke to be the ONLY asshole in the relationship that they miss the actual words these people are saying when the camera is on them.

To me it sounds like what is really happening is that Kate, who said out of her own mouth, on camera, "I try to initiate things" but I get the impression after their car convo that they way Kate "initiates things" is like a high school girl - she is in the mood/wants her needs met (yes people, women like sex too) but she's too immature, mousy, and shy to just say "wanna mess around?" so instead she gets shit-drunk and then hangs on Luke until enough blood has been redirected that he's like 'f-it, at least she's a warm wet hole, and she clearly doesn't care that I don't like her' (so basically his reaction is equally high school boy in nature). But then when it's done he's ashamed because he doesn't like her and maybe, just MAYBE there is some teeny tiny bit of human being inside him that feels wrong and like he's taking advantage (because he is) even though she was hanging all over him. I now think this is why Luke keeps bringing up this fake drinking problem - because Kate IS always drunk and hanging on him to get him to perform fake-intimacy (sex) to make her feel wanted. I think he knows that her drinking isn't the result of a real alcoholic drinking problem, but he DOES always see her drunk and so he can point to that and it relieves his guilt a little about his internal conflict between being a 'bigger man' and going and sleeping on the couch/ignoring her advances vs. giving in and taking the enjoyment of sex being offered.

Also - did everyone jsut see "shock" on Jasmine's face when Kate told her about the sex? Because that wasn't what I read at all!! What I saw was hatefire-level jealousy! I saw instant jealousy that turned to almost just as instant "jealous rage" that she was the only one no one wanted to have sex with.
 

[Mazzy]

6 hours ago, Soup333 said:

How do we reconcile his version with hers? According to her he will initiate and then she’ll ask him if he’s going to be okay afterwards. He assures her he will, they have sex and then he isolates himself for hours. This is a repeated pattern. So is Luke initiating sex with a woman too intoxicated to consent? Kate is aware enough to question him but still drunk enough to make him uncomfortable? 

None of this makes sense. 

If Luke felt pressured into drunken sex on the honeymoon that explains that one time. That does not explain him wanting to sleep with her on any occasion after.

In the car Kate said SHE initiates.

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, ChristmasJones said:

Just throwing this out there --

Is it possible that Kate did get overtly drunk on the honeymoon and put excessive pressure on Luke to have sex?

And since this is a total stranger, it was a major, major turn off to him.

But he didn't want to admit this openly (to experts/etc), and it made him feel highly ambivalent to her, so he just kept acting strange and hot/cold toward her.

Then, despite this, at other times when she came on to him, he gave in because he wanted to have sex (not because of feelings for her), and he knows this is wrong, so he told her not to tell anyone.

I guess my point is..... could there be a tiny kernel of truth about what he is saying?

I might agree with that, but they say there's a kernel of truth in every insult.  Puke's behavior is classic abuser behavior.  They often find one thing to blow way out of proportion and throw it up at their partner to justify their bad behavior whenever the other person questions theirs.  It's a smoke screen to try to deflect attention away from himself.  It's no coincidence that he latched onto something he knew would elude the cameras.  Notice how AJ's bad behavior is chronicled for all to see - It's too hard to hide.  If Kate were really drinking that much I don't doubt that the cameras would have made a "thing" about it.  She may actually be drinking more than usual, but who wouldn't with the stress of being on the show with that abusive asshole?  We have seen that before on this show.  I'm willing to give her that benefit of the doubt because everything in me tells me she does not have a drinking problem outside of this situation - Unlike AJ, whose behavior seems too obviously a big issue with his ability to handle stress in general, and is not just a function of being on the show.

Also, Luke always brings up that one thing - I really doubt that this one thing is the only thing turning him off.  I am sure there is SOME reason he is turned off to her, but the drinking is coming off like an all-too-convenient excuse to drag out whenever he feels pressure to justify himself.  If he wasn't sleeping with her and giving her mixed signals, I might believe him a little more.  But his saying one thing and doing another is making me think what he is saying is a smoke screen to deflect attention from the fact that his own hang ups are the reason for his being turned off.

Plus, if he is so turned off to her, why is he sleeping with her?  Is he just using her?  Ah, so maybe THAT's the reason he doesn't want anyone knowing about it!  He knows he's taking advantage of her and wants to hide it from the world! 

Plus he knows it looks hypocritical.  If he is really repulsed by her why on earth would he be able to look beyond that to have sex with her?  I really doubt he's into "ugly sex", LOL.  He is just FOS and unwilling to admit that his own hang ups are what are the cause of his behavior, NOT anything he is using to conveniently blame on Kate!

[aphroditewitch]

7 hours ago, ChristmasJones said:

Ok... but those are things he SHOULD have done. 

 Is there a reason we should assume that Luke would do the right/legal/moral thing?  

(not directing this at you personally, just using your comment to make the point).

I guess I am interested in if there is something more nuanced about their relationship than just he is a jerk/she is a nice girl.  I'm genuinely curious about what is causing him to act in the way he does.

As for Kate, I also wonder if one of the reasons she is not more forceful about the whole topic is that maybe she does become an asshole when she drinks. This does happen. People can seem one way and then once they get enough alcohol in them, another side can come out. Some are funny/affectionate/sloppy drunks, and some can get aggressive and mean.

I would never expect Luke to do the legal or moral thing, I'm pointing out that he is in the wrong even based on his own words. So for him to fully blame Kate for their uncomfortable sex life doesn't work. 

To me the fact that most of the rest of the cast seems to like Kate, which has come across both on the show and on Unfiltered and despise Luke, says a lot about who Kate and Luke are as people. I also feel that if Kate's drinking was as bad as Luke is claiming, there would have been more footage shown by now. We already saw with AJ, the show doesn't hesitate to show people being intoxicated and being a mean drunk. We would have to believe that Kate is somehow drinking too much but also manages to be controlled enough in her drinking to not excessively drink in front of the cameras. That doesn't really make sense though. While there are so-called functional alcoholics in the world, we would have to believe that Kate goes through her work day sober, goes through filming after work sober or only having one or two drinks, then after filming she is cramming in the others but still able to wake up the next morning and be not noticeably hung over and begin that cycle all over again. 

As to why he has decided to be an abusive person, again that is not something we are likely to get an answer on. I doubt that Kate is the first person he has abused. It is just the first time it has been on national television. 

[Crazy Bird Lady]

This.

2 hours ago, STRIDER1 said:

On a side note, MAFS sure has gotten super duper cheap this season.

Their budget must have been cut by 75% to have to include all 4 guys and/or gals into every single possible conceivable event.

Events that in previous seasons were held separately for each individual guy/gal or couple.

Joint bachelor parties for all 4 guys, so the show will only have to pay for 1 set of strippers instead of 4 sets of strippers and 4 separate parties/locations

Joint location for the couples mini-moon so that the show only has to pay for 1 house instead of 4 locations/rooms 

Exactly! That's a big part of what A.J. got so pissed off about. 

(Yeah, I know, A.J. is a hothead, and a mean drunk, and he obviously crossed the line walking in with that bourbon and sarcastically asking why everyone was in 'his' house, then after getting drunk, making crude Puke jokes and even slapping the jerk on the ass.)

But I STILL think A.J. (and Keith) had good reasons to be mad, when they'd been eager for some "alone time" with their wives. (In fact, I *don't* like the fact that Kristine was so OK with it --or that Luke was acting so happy they had no privacy!) 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Soup333]

22 minutes ago, Mazzy said:

In the car Kate said SHE initiates.

Last week she told Dr. Pepper he did. And then it leads to a discussion about how he’s going to act afterwards. 

This week she said she tried to initiate sex during the mini moon and he said there were too many people around - although I bet AJ wasn’t bothered. 

What I gathered from their car conversation is that in Luke’s version of things she is always the one who wants sex and she’s usually drunk. In Kate’s version of things it’s been both of them with some strange behavior from him afterwards. 

Five or six times (if that was even true) really isn’t a lot for honeymooners who’ve been together five weeks. 

[Booger666]

25 minutes ago, Mazzy said:

In the car Kate said SHE initiates.

Kate has said that they cuddle in bed and she initiates because it seems like the natural next step.   She has also said that he initiates and she asks him if he is sure and he says yes, he wants to have sex with her.  Regardless of how it started it seems he leaves the room and ignores her for hours afterwards.  

He said that the honeymoon time she was drunk.  When they got home she was unsure about moving in with him because things were so uncomfortable.  How does he welcome her to the new apartment ... with two bottles of wine.  Makes no damn sense.  If he was really bothered by her drinking and wanted her to stop he wouldn’t be gifting her wine.  He makes bogus claims about her drinking to shut down all discussion about his weird behavior in their sex life.

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, Retired at last said:

But even after they have had sex, then he gets "weird" and leaves the room and has to be alone for whatever reason, so even when they do, it is not affectionate or loving. So, when he feels like being the good guy and tells her he will do it, she gets all happy and then he leaves. I was glad she kind of talked to him, but then when she agreed that he was right, I was furious! 

Yeah, gives her false hope, uses her, withdraws from her, blames her for that, and then she just accepts the blame!  Rinse, repeat!  It angers me because while I would never be as mousy as Kate, he is beating her down with this behavior.  This is how abused women stay with their abusers.  They get hooked on the false hope even if it means it's all taken back.  Then they start to believe they actually deserve the abuse, and they're lucky that they get some crumbs that drop off the table so to speak.  It ultimately makes them unable to defend themselves from the abuse, and they just get sucked back in again for another cycle.

[Drogo]

The thing is, Kate and Luke have both misrepresented their relationship on camera.  Kate and Luke have both lied directly or indirectly to the experts and the other couples and by extension, the audience.  They are both unreliable.  First we were hearing he wouldn't hold her hand or kiss her.  Then we heard they kissed but he felt dead inside.  Then we heard she was an alcoholic but couldn't provide any examples of this.  Then we heard they've been having sex since the honeymoon but she wasn't supposed to talk about it.  Then we heard she's an alcoholic again because she drank two glasses of wine on their honeymoon and then Luke gave her two more, then apparently decided that was a good day to have sex with her for the first time.  Who do I believe?  Not Luke.  

Before he ever saw her take a sip of alcohol, he refused to kiss her at their wedding reception despite her obvious willingness and excitement to do so.  He slept on a couch on their wedding night and made her feel strange and undesirable from their first moments together.  Her wine with dinner is a convenient scapegoat for Luke.  

Most likely story:  Kate told Luke at their first honeymoon dinner that she thought it was odd that he hadn't kissed her yet; he took that as an attack on his manhood, and thought "I'll show her how Not Odd I am!" and slept with her... despite having no intention of ever treating her as a human being worthy of any consideration or respect. 

TL;DR version:  Fuck you, Luke.

[Empress1]

11 hours ago, ShowFan said:

Why are they blurring out Kristine’s cleavage and not Jasmine’s??

Kristine probably had a nipple slip out. 

10 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

Perhaps I'm too much of a hardened NY'r but I cannot stand how mousy Kate is. Say what you need to say to the man like a grown up and quit with the teary eyed dramatics. 

I feel the same way. I just want to shake her sometimes. Get mad! Show some gumption! It would be good for her and I bet $5 it would completely fuck Luke up. I think the only time she showed any is when Luke said he didn't want her to get hurt and she said "I AM hurt." I was proud of her for that. 

I like that next week her friends say straight up that she looks miserable. She does. When she says Luke checks all her boxes, I don't even think she looks them in the eye when she says it. And ... a man who is repulsed (his words, and according to her he's told her "lots of times" that he's not attracted to her) by you checks your boxes? Really? I don't like Jasmine but I agree with her that your spouse should desire you. Will is not, and will not be, that guy for her, but that doesn't mean she doesn't deserve it.

I agree with whoever said what's the big deal about decision day for the couples who are getting along. Kristine and Keith and Stephanie and AJ are clearly going to stay married, and they should. I think Kristine is a bit more on the fence than Keith is but not so much so that she wants out 8 weeks in. AJ is really unattractive to me, in looks and personality (I thought he was average-looking before and the more his personality came through over the season, especially the last few episodes, the less attractive he became), but Stephanie is attracted to him and she's said straight up that she just wants to be married, so she'll put up with a lot to say she has a husband. And she does seem to like him. He's clearly not going anywhere because he never wants to eat alone again (and I never want to hear about it again, my God).

[Drogo]

9 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

When she says Luke checks all her boxes, I don't even think she looks them in the eye when she says it.

It took a few calls, but I managed to track down Kate's checklist for the perfect man.

[Soup333]

One of the smartest things Kate has done (maybe the only smart thing) is ask Luke for examples of her behavior that he takes issue with. If she was drunk all the time shouldn't he have been able to give several examples?  

She asked for an example this time because he said he'd already figured she'd told about their sex life because she "always" does. And his only explanation is that she told about the repulsed and dead inside comment. He actually expected her not to say anything about that.

All of it just seems like an impossible test for Kate to pass. If she keeps his secrets she suffers his abuse in silence. If she reaches out then he's upset by her betrayal.  

[Gem 10]

9 hours ago, ChristmasJones said:

Just throwing this out there --

Is it possible that Kate did get overtly drunk on the honeymoon and put excessive pressure on Luke to have sex?

And since this is a total stranger, it was a major, major turn off to him.

But he didn't want to admit this openly (to experts/etc), and it made him feel highly ambivalent to her, so he just kept acting strange and hot/cold toward her.

Then, despite this, at other times when she came on to him, he gave in because he wanted to have sex (not because of feelings for her), and he knows this is wrong, so he told her not to tell anyone.

I guess my point is..... could there be a tiny kernel of truth about what he is saying?

I don’t know here.  I still Puke is trying to find himself.  Who dresses like that?  A “Pee Wee Herman” tie ?  What is he 7 ?  I don’t think he likes women.

[aphroditewitch]

I don't think Luke likes anyone. Actually, I'm beginning to think there is a possibility that it is not a question of straight or gay and more that he could be asexual. 

[Yeah No]

More smokescreen from Luke - She initiates, therefore it's not his fault, she drove him to sex.  BS!

Also, if he is buying the wine I call BS.  I don't believe he's not drinking it, either.  If he wasn't drinking and/or was that turned off by her drinking he wouldn't be encouraging the behavior like that.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Yeah No

[Elizzikra]

Quote

LOL, what makes her think he WON'T??

I think that Stephanie attributes a lot of AJ's stress to filming the show and she is trying to convince herself that he will be calmer when that is no longer part of their lives. I like Stephanie a lot but I think she needs to call AJ on his bullshit. When he pulled his tantrum on the minimoon and she just went to bed, I thought she missed an opportunity to say "you really embarrassed me with the way you were acting and I don't want to be married to someone who reacts this way to disappointment."

Thing is - I and I know this is an unpopular opinion - I think they could make this work IF AJ were willing to work on those behaviors. I think he really is falling for Stephanie and I think he would do just about anything for her. That may be enough motivation for him to admit there is a problem (if for no other reason than his behavior makes her unhappy) and start some anger management therapy. I think Stephanie also has some genuine feelings for AJ that could go beyond just wanting to be married. AJ, for all his faults, seems to try pretty hard to be a good partner to her. I think under all the dysfunction, there is some good raw material there. And I say that as someone who really dislikes AJ and would not ever want to be in a room with him for more than about a minute.

I feel really badly for Keith. I think he is absolutely falling for Kristine and I think he, too is trying to learn, grow and be the partner she wants and deserves. Again - unpopular opinion - I don't think Keith is lazy. I think he's working hard at a difficult job to try to improve his lot in life. His wife asked him to start cooking and he did. He did the cooking class and during the minimoon, saw an opportunity to learn more stuff in the kitchen from a guy who likes to cook (hopefully he took exactly NO other lessons from Luke). He set up the surprise for Kristine at the end of the minimoon. Maybe Kristine could "do better" (I like her a lot too) but I think she definitely could do worse than Keith. I hope she gives him a chance to see if there really could be something there.

I think Will and Jasmine have been done since Day One and should call it quits.

I think Luke is an ass. I don't care if Kate is a sloppy, affectionate drunk or if Luke is gay - whatever reason, he is absolutely determined to a) be dishonest with her about his lack of interest in her; b) make any problems in their relationship her fault and c) isolate her from anyone at all who might give her perspective on how poorly he treats her. As a happily married woman who spent over 40 years single, I say this with authority: It is so much better to be alone than with the wrong person. I hope Kate runs as far and as fast as she can in the opposite direction from Luke. I don't give a damn what he wants or what happens to him. I don't care how many boxes he checks for her. He's unkind and he's an ass.

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She initiates, therefore it's not his fault, she drove him to sex.  BS!

Also, if he is buying the wine I call BS.  I don't believe he's not drinking it, either.  If he wasn't drinking and/or was that turned off by her drinking he wouldn't be encouraging the behavior like that.

We saw him buy beer and drink it on the minimoon and he didn't deny it when Kate called him out for getting drunk and puking one night during their marriage.

This is a perfect example of him gaslighting her. In the tell-all he was blathering on about how he knows that sex "is important to Kate" so that's why he does it. Poor little Luke - he wants to wait and take things slow but he does the deed because he's trying to make his drunk demanding wife happy. Bullshit.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Elizzikra

[LuvMyShows]

2 hours ago, Drogo said:

He looks like Fagin from Oliver Twist, if Fagin had a Hollister rewards card and erectile dysfunction. 

Hysterical description!  And luv me some Oliver Twist references...I was in Oliver! in high school...good times, good times.

29 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

All of it just seems like an impossible test for Kate to pass. If she keeps his secrets she suffers his abuse in silence. If she reaches out then he's upset by her betrayal.  

The problem is that by not speaking up about it at the time (e.g, disagreeing up front with the request to keep a secret) and by not standing up for her right to discuss their business with other people (they are, after all, on a show that is being filmed), she is giving tacit agreement with his way of doing things.

11 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

Oh great, Luke is doing his bad acting on Unfiltered again. 

Since it looks like Humble Opinion is out for now, can someone else do a recap?

9 hours ago, Yeah No said:

She keeps telling the camera she's worried that after decision day he'll continue to act out when under stress.  I was like, "Gee, Stephanie, YA THINK?"  

She also was talking with one of the girls, and was speculating about whether he'd do better once the cameras were gone, and the stress was gone, and I thought to myself, "Honey, if it isn't the stress of the cameras, it will be the stress of the shower caddy, or from you going away and he has to eat BY HIMSELF for one meal, or from you trying to make a suggestion while he's driving."  And that's because the stress is not just genuinely in the situation itself (like the cameras), but in AJ's thought processing.

[Lusterleaf]

3 hours ago, STRIDER1 said:

On another side note, I may or may not be the only one here but I really really really want this season to just end already. Just start the next season so that we can finally forget about the philly group ! lol

Kate and puke = total disaster and cant watch anymore shenanigans between the 2. its just  insanity on top of more insanity

Will and jasmine = mega boring, so yeah wake me up when he leaves her. zzzzzzzz zzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzz

Keith and Kristine = chronic farting man child going up against a self described queen of her own imagination. their blinking contest will determine who will lose first versus who loses second hahaha

Aj and steph =  cant take anymore his behavior/personality, nor steph's eyebrows. i swear i get hypnotized every time i try not to stare into that void abyss

This season truly sucks IMO so just hurry up and bring on the new group of victims, I mean hopefuls lmao hahaha lol

Yes. Perfectly said and agree with every point! At this point just waiting for this train wreck of a season to end...

[Crazy Bird Lady]

Yes! to most of this:

16 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

I think that Stephanie attributes a lot of AJ's stress to filming the show and she is trying to convince herself that he will be calmer when that is no longer part of their lives. I like Stephanie a lot but I think she needs to call AJ on his bullshit. When he pulled his tantrum on the minimoon and she just went to bed, I thought she missed an opportunity to say "you really embarrassed me with the way you were acting and I don't want to be married to someone who reacts this way to disappointment."

Thing is - I and I know this is an unpopular opinion - I think they could make this work IF AJ were willing to work on those behaviors. I think he really is falling for Stephanie and I think he would do just about anything for her. That may be enough motivation for him to admit there is a problem (if for no other reason than his behavior makes her unhappy) and start some anger management therapy. I think Stephanie also has some genuine feelings for AJ that could go beyond just wanting to be married. AJ, for all his faults, seems to try pretty hard to be a good partner to her. I think under all the dysfunction, there is some good raw material there. 

Me, too:

Quote

I feel really badly for Keith. I think he is absolutely falling for Kristine and I think he, too is trying to learn, grow and be the partner she wants and deserves. Again - unpopular opinion - I don't think Keith is lazy. I think he's working hard at a difficult job to try to improve his lot in life. His wife asked him to start cooking and he did. He did the cooking class and during the minimoon, saw an opportunity to learn more stuff in the kitchen from a guy who likes to cook ([!!]). He set up the surprise for Kristine at the end of the minimoon. Maybe Kristine could "do better" (I like her a lot too) but I think she definitely could do worse than Keith [!!]. I hope she gives him a chance...

This! :

Quote

It is so much better to be alone than with the wrong person. I hope Kate runs as far and as fast as she can in the opposite direction from Luke. He's an ass. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Empress1]

6 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

Thing is - I and I know this is an unpopular opinion - I think they could make this work IF AJ were willing to work on those behaviors. I think he really is falling for Stephanie and I think he would do just about anything for her. That may be enough motivation for him to admit there is a problem (if for no other reason than his behavior makes her unhappy) and start some anger management therapy. I think Stephanie also has some genuine feelings for AJ that could go beyond just wanting to be married. AJ, for all his faults, seems to try pretty hard to be a good partner to her. I think under all the dysfunction, there is some good raw material there. And I say that as someone who really dislikes AJ and would not ever want to be in a room with him for more than about a minute.

I feel really badly for Keith. I think he is absolutely falling for Kristine and I think he, too is trying to learn, grow and be the partner she wants and deserves. Again - unpopular opinion - I don't think Keith is lazy. I think he's working hard at a difficult job to try to improve his lot in life. His wife asked him to start cooking and he did. He did the cooking class and during the minimoon, saw an opportunity to learn more stuff in the kitchen from a guy who likes to cook (hopefully he took exactly NO other lessons from Luke). He set up the surprise for Kristine at the end of the minimoon. Maybe Kristine could "do better" (I like her a lot too) but I think she definitely could do worse than Keith. I hope she gives him a chance to see if there really could be something there.

I think Will and Jasmine have been done since Day One and should call it quits.

I agree with all this. I think it was a wrap for Will when Jasmine pulled the "70/30 on bills and that's a compromise" thing, and things only declined with the "you grew up in poverty, ew" and "you won't make any money coaching" stuff. I don't blame Will for not being into Jasmine - why would you want to be with someone who looks down on you and doesn't support what you want to do?

I don't think Keith is lazy either. Working and going to school at the same time is hard (I've done it), and when asked to step up in the kitchen, he did. Kristine did say she dated a wealthy guy who took care of her but he also didn't treat her well, and I don't think she'd have that issue with Keith.

2 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

She also was talking with one of the girls, and was speculating about whether he'd do better once the cameras were gone, and the stress was gone, and I thought to myself, "Honey, if it isn't the stress of the cameras, it will be the stress of the shower caddy, or from you going away and he has to eat BY HIMSELF for one meal, or from you trying to make a suggestion while he's driving."  And that's because the stress is not just genuinely in the situation itself (like the cameras), but in AJ's thought processing.

Stephanie said herself that life gets stressful. I don't doubt that filming the show is stressful (I'd hate it), but eventually someone is going to lose a job or a parent will get sick or they'll buy a house or have a kid (stress around good life events is still stress), and he's going to react the same way because that's how he reacts to stress. That's what she's signing up for, unless she speaks up and he agrees to look at different ways of managing his stress and anger.

[VAMom]

I think Will is depressed.  Sleeping all the time is a definite sign and Jasmine talked about him being sad.  This time is stressful and maybe threw him down a hole where he really can’t cope.

[psychoticstate]

10 hours ago, ChristmasJones said:

Just throwing this out there --

Is it possible that Kate did get overtly drunk on the honeymoon and put excessive pressure on Luke to have sex?

And since this is a total stranger, it was a major, major turn off to him.

But he didn't want to admit this openly (to experts/etc), and it made him feel highly ambivalent to her, so he just kept acting strange and hot/cold toward her.

Then, despite this, at other times when she came on to him, he gave in because he wanted to have sex (not because of feelings for her), and he knows this is wrong, so he told her not to tell anyone.

I guess my point is..... could there be a tiny kernel of truth about what he is saying?

@ChristmasJones, I wondered if Kate got "blackout drunk" on the honeymoon, had sex with Luke and then didn't remember a thing the next morning?  Maybe that turned him off?  

Either way, while I still think Luke is a POS, it did concern me that when he mentioned her getting blackout drunk, she didn't respond.   That makes me think she is indeed getting blackout drunk, which is very worrisome.  Was she doing that pre-marriage or is this a symptom of being in this marriage? 

I feel for Jasmine and Will (at least today) because I see both sides.  Jasmine wants to be physically intimate with Will because he's her husband.  Will, despite being married to Jasmine, wants to get to know each other better before getting physical.  Both are right.  I do think they like each other; they do butt heads on the intimacy issue and financial roles but otherwise, seem okay together.  Strangely, either decision - - staying together or splitting up - - would be appropriate.

I think Keith and Kristine and A.J. and Stephanie should stay together on D-Day.   Doesn't mean they should stay together forever, or will, but at this point, there is nothing that should make them think they should call an end to it pronto.   While I do think that A.J. is easily testy and moody, that is probably exacerbated by the cameras and crew being present.   Stay together and see how he is for a few weeks/months.  The only reason I could conceive at this point for Keith and Kristine not to stay together would be the issue over children - - Kristine obviously is not looking to have kids in the very near future.  If she's willing to deal with his schooling for the next few years, I think they're a solid match.  He's clearly infatuated with her (if he's not ready to say "love" yet) and he has gone outside of his comfort zone for her to cook.    

12 minutes ago, VAMom said:

I think Will is depressed.  Sleeping all the time is a definite sign and Jasmine talked about him being sad.  This time is stressful and maybe threw him down a hole where he really can’t cope.

He's also a self-professed introvert, who is married to more of an extrovert and (right now at least) surrounded by a film crew.  I did understand his need to take a nap while on the mini-moon, with 3 other couples in what looked to be a relatively small house.

[Soup333]

6 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

@ChristmasJones, I wondered if Kate got "blackout drunk" on the honeymoon, had sex with Luke and then didn't remember a thing the next morning?  Maybe that turned him off?  

Either way, while I still think Luke is a POS, it did concern me that when he mentioned her getting blackout drunk, she didn't respond.   That makes me think she is indeed getting blackout drunk, which is very worrisome.  Was she doing that pre-marriage or is this a symptom of being in this marriage? 

Interesting theory since people have been saying the reason he was turned off in the first place is that she didn't remember meeting him at the dating event he hosted.

But...if Kate is getting blackout drunk, why is Luke still having sex with her? I just don't see how he's *that* turned off and disgusted but yet is still able to sleep with her. And why later would he be actively convincing her to have sex with him? It just doesn't make sense.

[spunky]

So according to Luke and Kate's argument, Luke doesn't want to sleep with her because she is mostly drunk. Kate you can't force someone to want you, and being drunk doesn't help. My sympathy is completely gone at this point. Jasmine unlike Kate is starting to accept that her marriage is most likely over. Keith and Kristine continue to be cute. AJ strikes me as the stalker type, who will make your life hell when you leave him. Stephanie better hire some armed guards once she leaves AJ.

Is it me or does Luke always seem more interested in Jasmine whenever they're in a group setting or on unfiltered?

Edited March 20, 2019 by spunky
Typo

[Empress1]

4 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

[Will is] also a self-professed introvert, who is married to more of an extrovert and (right now at least) surrounded by a film crew.  I did understand his need to take a nap while on the mini-moon, with 3 other couples in what looked to be a relatively small house.

Yep. Since he's a self-described introvert, I thought the same thing. Odds are good he feels most comfortable around small groups of people he knows well, which is not this group (even though he does seem to like the other couples - there were some moments where he was shown to be genuinely laughing and having a good time). He's got to be "on" and having fairly serious conversations all the time, which is probably draining. All of them describe filming as stressful.

[Gem 10]

29 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I agree with all this. I think it was a wrap for Will when Jasmine pulled the "70/30 on bills and that's a compromise" thing, and things only declined with the "you grew up in poverty, ew" and "you won't make any money coaching" stuff. I don't blame Will for not being into Jasmine - why would you want to be with someone who looks down on you and doesn't support what you want to do?

I don't think Keith is lazy either. Working and going to school at the same time is hard (I've done it), and when asked to step up in the kitchen, he did. Kristine did say she dated a wealthy guy who took care of her but he also didn't treat her well, and I don't think she'd have that issue with Keith.

Stephanie said herself that life gets stressful. I don't doubt that filming the show is stressful (I'd hate it), but eventually someone is going to lose a job or a parent will get sick or they'll buy a house or have a kid (stress around good life events is still stress), and he's going to react the same way because that's how he reacts to stress. That's what she's signing up for, unless she speaks up and he agrees to look at different ways of managing his stress and anger.

She wants a child so much.  She doesn’t want to start over.  I think she will stay with him hoping he will change.  He is what he is and doubt he will change, ever.  It’s up to her.  Good luck to Stephanie.

[Yeah No]

47 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

This is a perfect example of him gaslighting her. In the tell-all he was blathering on about how he knows that sex "is important to Kate" so that's why he does it. Poor little Luke - he wants to wait and take things slow but he does the deed because he's trying to make his drunk demanding wife happy. Bullshit.

Forgive me for saying this, but I think Puke is a really bad example of his generation.  He's like everything I hate about hipsters rolled into one person with none of the upsides.  He's almost a stereotype of himself.  Of course, not taking responsibility for anything and attempting to make every messed up thing they do someone else's fault is part of that stereotype.  And sadly, he fits it all too well.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Puke is a really bad example of his generation

He's just a bad example of people, generally.

[Retired at last]

I still think that all 4 will stay together on D Day. Why not? They get money and don't have to live together until the reunion - all they have to do is walk around with their wedding rings on and maybe see each other a few times. I don't know how much longer they can drag out these last 3 days until D-day, but I am thinking that next week is not the D Day show. At least we don't have any more Unfiltered shows. I just started watching this show last season, but I seem to remember that the people who were on the panel were the ones who were discussed so they could answer/explain, etc. I don't like it when they show scenes with people who aren't there and ask the rest to discuss the situation. That doesn't feel ethical, especially with Dr. Pepper there giving her "expert" opinion. Not that anything on this show is ethical, but, it bothers me.

[Yeah No]

16 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

He's just a bad example of people, generally.

Of course!  But I have known so many hipsters that are similar to Puke in so many ways....Sorry, that's a rant of mine.

[Yeah No]

I think Kate is infatuated with the hipster image she sees in Puke, which is really a fantasy, not reality.  And she is blind to the awful reality that is him.

[Ohwell]

I'll say one thing positive about AJ:  I understood his frustration in that fitness center.  I work out in my home, but I hate fucking fitness centers.  Clearly, that's just not his thing and maybe he'd do other things to keep in shape.  However, he could have handled things better without acting like a two year old and storming out.   But, of course, that's his MO.  If they do stay together, Stephanie should just go alone and let him do his thing by himself.

[gonecrackers]

After this episode, I feel badly for both Will and Jasmine. I think both were very hopeful but are now disappointed, & I can't blame them. Will sleeping a lot at the mini-moon might have been introvert stuff (I would've slept or hid the whole time), but Jasmine says he sleeps a lot, in general, so he's probably checked out & sleeping his way to D-Day (or whenever they decide to split).

I know people do like Kristine, but I feel she's acting all the "queen" she thinks she is, as if she can do better than Keith. Well, if so  she could've found her own dude w/o the show's 'help'. I also don't believe Keith is lazy. No one who works FT & goes to school, finds time to get married, learn to cook, & generally take the time to please his new stranger bride is lazy. She needs to stop complaining so much, especially about his abs because she could work on her own - & I'm not usually petty; I'm just sick of her saying he should have a 6 pack because that's what SHE likes. He likes a taller woman with a larger butt, but he's accepted & thrown himself into trying to please his "fun size" wife, so she can stuff it.

Edited March 20, 2019 by gonecrackers

[Soup333]

3 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I'll say one thing positive about AJ:  I understood his frustration in that fitness center.  I work out in my home, but I hate fucking fitness centers.  Clearly, that's just not his thing and maybe he'd do other things to keep in shape.  However, he could have handled things better without acting like a two year old and storming out.   But, of course, that's his MO.  If they do stay together, Stephanie should just go alone and let him do his thing by himself.

I agree that those type of gyms/workouts are not everyone’s cup of tea. AJ’s admittedly not the best shape, he’s unfamiliar with the routine, there’s other people there, the dreaded cameras - it was uncomfortable. But he handles everything like a child. Had a tantrum and left when he could have just mucked through it and told Stephanie it was a one and done OR he could have left without pitching a fit and saying “fuck this shit.” 

And It looks like she ran after him which is just ugh. For the rest of her life she’ll be appeasing his moods. I couldn’t. 

[Yeah No]

Just now, gonecrackers said:

After this episode, I feel badly for both Will and Jasmine. I think they were both very hopeful but are now disappointed, & I can't blame them. Will checking out to sleep at the mini-moon might have been introvert stuff (I would've slept or hid the whole time), but Jasmine says he sleeps a lot, in general, so he's probably checked out & sleeping his way to D-Day (or whenever they decide to split).

I think both Will and Jasmine may be a little clueless about relationships.  Neither one of them shows that much self or other awareness, nor are they being realistic about where things have been very obviously NOT going in their relationship, or I would have expected one of them to address this in their talking heads.  Them both saying they are hopeful about their future together is unbelievable given how obvious it is to the world that they're just not clicking and going nowhere.  What are they waiting for, a miracle?  Or are they just not admitting to the world that they've both given up and are waiting for it all to be over?

[Neurochick]

13 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Not to be mean, but I can see why Kate is not married.  She has no umpf in her.  A man wants a little challenge, not a door mat.  And Luke is a pompous ass.  Very sickening match.

They need to get divorced.

I was confused.  Kate told Dr. Pepper that Luke initiated the sex, but didn't she tell Jasmine that she initiated it?  It sounded like she was telling Jasmine something different.  

I don't know if Kate has a drinking problem, my senses tell me she does, which makes Luke even more horrible because Luke should have gone to the experts privately and told them so, then asked for a divorce.  Right now, he's using Kate's drinking against her which is wrong.  

I like Keith because I feel that he's willing to change.  He knows he's been pampered by the women in his family and he does want to grow up and change.  I think Kristine may think she can do better, but when you think about it  she might not be able to do better.

I read this book, and he does have a point.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Neurochick