S02.E03: Muninn

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

As he is tracked by Mr. World, Shadow makes his way to Cairo, thanks to a ride from Sam Black Crow; Mr. Wednesday slyly gains Laura's help in forging an alliance with a powerful god.

Airing Sunday, March 24, 2019. Please note, STARZ may make this available on it's streaming platform before the broadcast time on Sunday evening.

 

[AimingforYoko]

And Technical Boy, of all people, with some rock-solid meta dialogue, "How the fuck is this an upgrade?"

[peridot]

New Media is definitely not the same character as before!  The tentacles/cable scene was cringe-worthy.  This is the second thing I've seen recently with tentacles going places they shouldn't be going.

I'm glad we've got the scenes between Laura and Odin.  She is consistently all about herself.  I kind of feel bad about Sweeney and his efforts to help her.

[rab01]

Sigh. The show is so drab compared to last season.  It's ok that the plot doesn't make much sense to me because why should I understand gods' motivations but the visuals are so ordinary now and the dialogue with the girl who picked up shadow was so on the nose.

Also, I get that new media would be into tentacle porn (well new as of a decade or two ago) but if I'm siding with technical boy in a scene, the rest of the characters have dropped their level immensely.

[DarkRaichu]

So 2 gay dudes walked into a titties bar to pick up a spear from a pothead...  somebody help me make a joke out of this...

Lol at continuous bad luck of Mad Sweeney..  A leprechaun stuck in a Christian rock band tour bus heading to New Orleans ROFLMAO !!! 

Sorry, but Sam BlackCrow had more chemistry with Shadow Moon in 15 minutes they were on screen together than Laura in the entirety of season 1.

However, I would watch Laura + Sweeney road trip all over the Americas (the whole continents, not just USA) as a spin-off show

With how well Wednesday spelled out what Laura's priority was, I'd rather not have her back with Shadow

Lol new Media looks like a K-Pop idol, which is fitting since those idols are on the rise...
At least this New Media had ambition of her own.  Argus + Media would have been a very powerful pair

Now can we get a new Easter/Spring ??  The story might work better with her involvement

32 minutes ago, peridot said:

This is the second thing I've seen recently with tentacles going places they shouldn't be going.

You my friend, is lucky. I assure you there are more than those 2 occasions...  There are things better left unseen 😜

[WatchrTina]

Huh.  I'm saddened by the lack of commentary here and I'm pretty disappointed in the episode.  I've READ the book and yet I still kept losing the thread of the plot.

I'm glad Odin had Laura sown back together again but why, exactly, did he leave Shadow to crawl out of the train wreckage and find his way the Cairo on his own?  Just a god fucking with someone, I guess.  Or maybe he didn't want Shadow along on the trip to repair & recharge Laura while taking down Argus, but still -- leaving your "man" in the wreckage like that -- damn, that's cold.  Then again, this is the same MoFo who had Laura killed so nothing Wednesday does should surprise me.

So . . . we have team old gods and team new gods both showing up to confront Argus and . . . seriously?  That's what we got?  New Media "plugs" into him, Laura Moon executes him, Technical Boy looks the other way as Laura approaches because apparently he's jealous and suspicious of New Media, and Motherfucking ODIN hides out of sight while all this goes down.  WTF was that?  I found that scene profoundly unsatisfying.  

It's been a long time since I read the book but I do have a vague recollection of enjoying Sam Blackcrow in the book.  But *this* was a complete nothing-burger. She delivers Shadow to Mr. Ibis and Mr Jacquel's funeral parlor and . . . that's it?  What's the point in even naming a character if they play such an insignificant role?  (Maybe I'm misremembering.  Maybe she turns up again in the story.  But based on what we saw tonight, why should we care if she does?)

I definitely do not recall Mad Sweeney going to New Orleans with a Christian rock band. I'm trying to keep an open mind and be okay with deviations from the book but . . . WTF?

Edited March 25, 2019 by WatchrTina

[JayBird23]

Oh no!  I was hoping Gods would pick up here in episode 3.  It was a scattered mess.  I have been defending season 2 until tonight.  I was bored and apathetic.  I really didn't care about it.  The pairing of Wednesday and Laura had a few moments, everything else was yuck.

This show seems lost.  I guess there are different people in charge with each episode, directors and writers.  There will probably be a few good episodes but the continuity of the series is all but lost in season 2.  

The hope is that we get through this season and write it off as the forgettable season of Gods.  Then, come back with a winning team for Season 3 and reestablish Gods as a top-rated show.   

I find it hard to believe the rest of this year's episodes could be as bad as tonight.  Gaiman hinted at the second half of season 2 being strong.  I didn't realize he was also saying the first half would suck,  Looking back, now, it's exactly what he was implying. 

Oh well, I'll try again next week but my expectations are much, much lower.  

[Kite]

I was quite lost in this episode. Not really understanding it, I don't know if what I was supposed to understand was good.

Sam was a little too studied for me, seemed like some cis person's idea. The padlock chain necklace, oh dear. I did understand the dialogue here, it seemed fake-profound.

New Media was ...interesting. I liked her latex dress. And her sass. Dialogue wasn't that flash though. Not sure what to think about the tentacle porn, it was, surprisingly, just ...there.

I really like Laura.

Spoiler

Waiting to see Low Key again.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Athena
added spoiler tag

[ElectricBoogaloo]

A frustrated and annoyed Shadow asking Wednesday, "Why? Just tell me why!" at the end was me watching this episode.

[Haleth]

A lot of exposition but not much seemed to happen.  I'm not sure what the point of Argus was other than a god who was playing both sides got killed.  Ok.  I'm not sure why we should care.  New Media is really, really annoying, even more than Tech Boy which I didn't think was possible.  I kept waiting for some reveal about Sam, why she was important.  Nothing.  The only thing that kept my interest was the misadventures of the world's unluckiest leprechaun.  Having him on a burning boat was funny, then being rescued by a busload of Christians.  Hilarity ensues.

I sure hope the show picks up in the second half.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Haha, I hope that Sweeney manages not to completely lose it before the Christian bus gets him to New Orleans. I can imagine that after a few hours on nonstop Jesus rock, he might explode.

[Pallas]

I'd hate to read this script. An artist's vision is sorely missed.

How can time spent with Laura and Odin together be leaden?  Conspiracy allegory: "Some call it (this), some call it (that), some call it 'The Black State'...yet it always appears to be just an empty warehouse..."  Origin story: Young Laura's father, "drunk, as usual," spills booze on her library book; she's too ashamed to return it, and never set foot in a library again. A bookworm turns delinquent.

Finally, some divine wisdom, sowing doubt about her purpose: Laura doesn't love Shadow because she's human. Defined as self-interested. Defined as, She'd rather be alive than dead. And Shadow loved her because she was depressed and because his love felt unrequited. Part savior-complex; part mother-complex. 

TechBoy is a brat who yells at Argus (part Jabba the Hutt, part Baron Harkonnen, susceptible to a gom jabbar); New Media is a K-Pop sexpot who flatters him into Zeusing her, with TechBoy as the Hera. And New God sex is soulless juice! By contrast: last season, in the third episode, Salim met the Jinn. 

Speaking of Salim. Salim and the Jinn meet a trickster god, and the Jinn warns Salim never to look into his eyes. So he doesn't. 

Muninn's self-sacrifice by flying into the drone was a good touch; I'm guessing that the ravens reincarnate, like Betty? And that Sam Black Crow is related, in service to the White Buffalo? 

But if this is the script where McShane declared his own war and began re-writing, I'm with him. With each episode, he does appear to be vamping more and more, trying to distract us and buy time. Only it's not his scene partner who's blowing lines: it's the writers.

[WatchrTina]

6 minutes ago, Pallas said:

if this is the script is where McShane declared his own war and began re-writing, I'm with him.

Wait, what?  Is that the rumor?  I hadn't heard that.

[DarkRaichu]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

A lot of exposition but not much seemed to happen.  I'm not sure what the point of Argus was other than a god who was playing both sides got killed.  Ok.  I'm not sure why we should care.

I thought Argus was the tech behind the "eye in the sky" spy drones that was responsible for locating the old gods in episode 1.  Odin was removing the enemies' eyes.  Although I have no idea why he was hiding and let Laura go in by herself against 2 (potentially 3) opposing gods.

9 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

New Media "plugs" into him

Technically, Argus plugged into her har di har har 😛

Seriously though, now that Odin showed Laura how to get her heart beating, I'd rather see a series in which Laura and Sweeney (maybe plus Salim) just touring the continents to locate and kill old and new gods as sacrifices to keep her "alive".  

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, WatchrTina said:

Wait, what?  Is that the rumor?  I hadn't heard that

From The Hollywood Reporter article cited in the Media thread.  Bonus: features great shot of Wednesday's eyes!  Sacrifice...

[rab01]

8 minutes ago, Pallas said:

From The Hollywood Reporter article cited in the Media thread.  Bonus: features great shot of Wednesday's eyes!  Sacrifice...

Damn, I now remember reading that article before the season started and planned to lower my expectations accordingly but I guess I didn't lower them enough.  What really stands out as sad from that article: (1) Gaiman helped push out Fuller and picked the S2 showrunner who promised to be more faithful to Gaiman's story;  (2) how often do you hear network notes that turn out to be right? (they were worried that S2 was too prosaic and looked cheap); and (3) that the cast hated next week's episode as much as this week's episode. 

[WaltersHair]

I'm out. The plot made no sense, new Media is no  upgrade, and eating bits of week-dead Laura sealed the deal.

No wonder everyone bailed on this.

[Bizabra]

I liked it. I think the show is fine. Still interested. Love not having it all spelled out for me.

[Drogo]

28 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

I thought Argus was the tech behind the "eye in the sky" spy drones that was responsible for locating the old gods in episode 1.  Odin was removing the enemies' eyes.  Although I have no idea why he was hiding and let Laura go in by herself against 2 (potentially 3) opposing gods.

Correctamundo; Mr. World is hanging out in the place that receives all of Argus' tentacle uploads. Argus was reborn in the new world as "surveillance."

As to why Laura made the kill, Wednesday said they couldn't get out of there without each of them making a sacrifice; his was Io, and hers was Argus. 

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I hope that Sweeney manages not to completely lose it before the Christian bus gets him to New Orleans.

This (or that time he was on a flaming boat) might be a good time to use his Travel By Horde frequent-flier miles.

Embarrassed to admit, I don't know what's happening, but... I'm liking Technical Boy more with each passing episode.

*sees Laura sneak in with blade*
Hey guys..?
*remembers tentacle-sex and dislike for both New Media and Argus*
Never mind.

[mammaM]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm out.

I kept having to rewatch scenes because I'd lose interest and go check on a basketball game (March Madness) then forget where I was in AG. That's not a good sign. Last season might have been a bit of a mess, but it was an interesting mess, now I'm just bored. If it picks up at the end of the season maybe I'll go back and binge watch it, until then, I'll wait for Good Omens (fingers crossed) and the Deadwood movie (yay for Ian).

[DarkRaichu]

31 minutes ago, Drogo said:

This (or that time he was on a flaming boat) might be a good time to use his Travel By Horde frequent-flier miles.

That would be a bad idea without his coin (or Laura).  With his current luck he could apparate (HP ftw 😛 ) inside a mountain or something

35 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Embarrassed to admit, I don't know what's happening, but... I'm liking Technical Boy more with each passing episode.

He did not have any choice really.  He knew Mr. World wouldn't have liked Argus+Media union but he could not stop the tentacle pron either.

[nodorothyparker]

I didn't hate this as much as a lot of just seemed to sort of be ... there.

There was a lot of exposition that at times was hard to follow and the performances and visuals aren't always making up for it.  Shadow really isn't a character who can carry a story on his own without one of the big pairings and his adventures with Sam Black Crow ended up feeling mostly like filler.   I did weirdly like New Media as a walking embodiment of everything crass and shallow and often context-free of social media.  Even the tentacle sex didn't really bother me because it was presented as every bit as unappealing as sex usually is online and hey, it's certainly always a click away if you're so inclined.   I generally find Technical Boy one of the more annoying characters on TV right now, but his seeing Laura with the knife and starting to warn them and then "Never mind" was a hoot.

McShane does almost feel like he's making some of this up and putting his own spin on it as he goes along, but his scenes were nice in making the point that for all her insistence to the contrary, Laura can't go back and make things right with Shadow now.   They both fell short in her wanting his love to save her from her crushing depression and inertia and him thinking he was in love with the cute sad girl who needed saving.  For all his crap, I loved Wednesday's line about sleepwalking through her life and now sleepwalking through her death too if she keeps pursuing this path.  Whether she actually believes him or not may be a different story.

I love that Mad Sweeney's luck actually managed to get worse without proximity to Laura and the coin.

[Drogo]

3 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

That would be a bad idea without his coin (or Laura).  With his current luck he could apparate (HP ftw 😛 ) inside a mountain or something

It also seemed to take a lot out of him and certainly painful for both.  Still, up against several days on a bus talking about our personal saviors.. sort of a six of one, half-dozen of another situation.  

Just now, nodorothyparker said:

I generally find Technical Boy one of the more annoying characters on TV right now

This is his charm.  The actor's really done a great job getting him there.

[rab01]

47 minutes ago, Drogo said:

As to why Laura made the kill, Wednesday said they couldn't get out of there without each of them making a sacrifice; his was Io, and hers was Argus. 

Isn't that why she burned the library, rather than him?

[DarkRaichu]

3 minutes ago, rab01 said:

Isn't that why she burned the library, rather than him?

That's what I thought too.  Burning library was to get out and killing Argus was to get her heart beating

[Drogo]

4 minutes ago, rab01 said:

Isn't that why she burned the library, rather than him?

I believe they had to just keep making sacrifices until they found the current Argus manifestation- Wednesday convinced Laura that her hand killing Current Argus was what would slow down her rot. 

[Drogo]

Any ideas as to what Wednesday needs that very cool little germinated seedling for?  He doesn't strike me as the gardening type.

[hnygrl]

Man, y'all are making me GLAD I forgot to watch last night! (Imagine that? Totally forgot it was even on. Not a good sign).

Like I said, "homage"  to the book, not "adaptation OF" the book. I think if we look at it that way, we may be able to stomach this season, and Didn't he meet Sam Black Crow on the bus on the way to Lakeview? Or am I crazy? Guess they finally made it to Cairo...

Y'all are making me not want to watch this episode...

[DarkRaichu]

52 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Any ideas as to what Wednesday needs that very cool little germinated seedling for?  He doesn't strike me as the gardening type.

It is Groot ? 😄😄 😄

[Drogo]

Just now, DarkRaichu said:

It is Groot ? 😄😄 😄

[rab01]

53 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Any ideas as to what Wednesday needs that very cool little germinated seedling for?  He doesn't strike me as the gardening type.

I haven't read the book so whenever the plot centers on Wednesday I can only think of Norse equivalents, which could be either a seedling from Yggdrasil or more interestingly a sprig of mistletoe like what killed Baldur.  But since the mythologies always cross on the show, I have no real clue.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

7 hours ago, Drogo said:

Any ideas as to what Wednesday needs that very cool little germinated seedling for?  He doesn't strike me as the gardening type.

He’s going to start his own weed business?

[Dewey Decimate]

I haven't read the book, so maybe my disappointment bar is lower, but I'm still good with this season. I often have only a tendril of a clue as to what exactly is going on, but the acting is generally compelling and the visuals are beautifully arresting.

The dialogue between Shadow and Max felt full of lame philosophical non sequiturs, yikes! I think the actress was good, though, and Shadow... is pretty to observe. Why the hell did Weds leave him at the train wreck? Why did Salim and the Djinn (great sitcom name, btw) have to make the strip club pick-up for him instead of Weds doing it himself? I'm sure the books go into fascinating detail with answers, but until I have the time to read it, I'll just ride the wave and try not to stress too much about not getting it.

I'm good with the Media v2.0, and actually found the tentacle sex appropriate, albeit squicky. That's the first time I loved Technical Boy.

Mad Sweeney's Series of Unfortunate Events was KILLING me!! It's odd, but with each hilarious failure I found him more and more bang-worthy.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Dewey Decimate

[rab01]

Just now, Dewey Decimate said:

I think the actress was good, though, and Shadow... is pretty to observe.  Why the hell did Weds leave him at the train wreck?

Well, Wednesday caused the train wreck thereby preventing Laura and Sweeney from saving him without further injury so I think he wanted Shadow to be busted up and on his own.  I'd guess it's part of Shadow's "journey" to becoming whatever useful thing Wednesday needs him to be.  

[Lemur]

On 3/25/2019 at 12:53 AM, WatchrTina said:

I'm glad Odin had Laura sown back together again but why, exactly, did he leave Shadow to crawl out of the train wreckage and find his way the Cairo on his own?  Just a god fucking with someone, I guess.  Or maybe he didn't want Shadow along on the trip to repair & recharge Laura while taking down Argus, but still -- leaving your "man" in the wreckage like that -- damn, that's cold.  Then again, this is the same MoFo who had Laura killed so nothing Wednesday does should surprise me.

In the words of Wednesday, sometimes the quickest way to get Shadow where he needs to go is the longest way.  Wednesday wanted Shadow alone.  Wednesday has a plan.

So . . . we have team old gods and team new gods both showing up to confront Argus and . . . seriously?  That's what we got?  New Media "plugs" into him, Laura Moon executes him, Technical Boy looks the other way as Laura approaches because apparently he's jealous and suspicious of New Media, and Motherfucking ODIN hides out of sight while all this goes down.  WTF was that?  I found that scene profoundly unsatisfying. 

Wednesday didn't want to be seen.  Technical Boy stood aside because the combination of Media and Surveillance would most likely lead to a new Technical Boy or at the very least, a downgrade in Technical Boy's importance to Mr. World. 

It's been a long time since I read the book but I do have a vague recollection of enjoying Sam Blackcrow in the book.  But *this* was a complete nothing-burger. She delivers Shadow to Mr. Ibis and Mr Jacquel's funeral parlor and . . . that's it?  What's the point in even naming a character if they play such an insignificant role?  (Maybe I'm misremembering.  Maybe she turns up again in the story.  But based on what we saw tonight, why should we care if she does?)

That's all she did at this point in the book as well.  She's introduced.  She caught a ride with Shadow to her sister's.  

I definitely do not recall Mad Sweeney going to New Orleans with a Christian rock band. I'm trying to keep an open mind and be okay with deviations from the book but . . . WTF?

Based on his comments, he's apparently going to visit Baron Samedi which should be ... interesting. The Baron only showed up briefly in the book, so this is new material.

[terrymct]

On 3/25/2019 at 12:53 AM, WatchrTina said:

I'm glad Odin had Laura sown back together again but why, exactly, did he leave Shadow to crawl out of the train wreckage and find his way the Cairo on his own?  Just a god fucking with someone, I guess.  Or maybe he didn't want Shadow along on the trip to repair & recharge Laura while taking down Argus, but still -- leaving your "man" in the wreckage like that -- damn, that's cold.  Then again, this is the same MoFo who had Laura killed so nothing Wednesday does should surprise me.

I think it's because Shadow is supposed to be undergoing a test and transformation.  Enter the series as a broken man with no prospects for pretty much anything.  Learn this new landscape and learn what he's capable of doing or withstanding.

[Miles]

The bad:

The new production team just can't get Bryan Fullers style down and it's really painfull to see them try over and over again.

New Media is a cringe fest and the actress isn't great. Couldn't they at least have gotten Lady Gaga, or if they wanted to go real internet celeb Pewdiepie (I don't particularly like the guy, but at least that would have made sense)?

Mr. world is also just annoying and doesn't seem to have a brain this season.

The good:

At least this episode I wasn't as bored as the last two.

Dead wife with Odin is pretty much as good as Dead wife with the leprechaun, just in a different way, so no complaints here.

Shadow with his new friend was also surprisingly interesting. Would have prefered an extended road trip movie with the two over much of the rest of this season.

Sweeney's extended bad luck is just a ton of fun. Even wwhen he is a little lucky and gets picked up by a rock band in their tour bus, it's a christian rock band. XD

[WatchrTina]

3 hours ago, Dewey Decimate said:

Why the hell did Weds leave him at the train wreck?

3 hours ago, rab01 said:

Well, Wednesday caused the train wreck thereby preventing Laura and Sweeney from saving him without further injury so I think he wanted Shadow to be busted up and on his own.

I have to disagree with part of the assertion above.  I think Wednesday stopped the train to set Shadow free from his captors because he didn't know that Laura and Sweeney were already on the job and moments away from freeing Shadow. They were plan B but he was still pursuing Plan A by sacrificing Betty.  But when he found Laura in the wreckage he decided to quickly hustle her out of there and leave Shadow behind -- knowing that Shadow was now out of his captor's clutches and trusting that he was capable of getting away on his own.  Wednesday needs Shadow on his own for some reason.  He went to the trouble of killing Laura so that Shadow would be unencumbered and available to become his "bodyguard" following his release from prison. He orchestrated that whole "cute meet" between him and Shadow in first class on the plane.  We still don't know why Wednesday is so interested in Shadow but it's clear that Shadow is important to him.  As such, he would not want Shadow to see Laura all busted up -- that might have had unintended consequences with regard to whatever puppet-master Wednesday/Odin is up to.  Of course Shadow has already seen Laura, his dead wife, covered in blood and exhibiting super-strength by stomping the life out of one of his tormentors on the train so he's already pretty traumatized with regard to Laura already.  But seeing her in bits and pieces while still talking is a whole new level of psychological trauma and I think Wednesday didn't want that.   

I don't think Wednesday wanted Shadow to be busted up.  On the contrary he went to the trouble of rescuing him (he just did it an indifferent-god-like, catastrophic way.)  But I do agree that he wants Shadow on his own.  As such, upon discovering Laura in the wreckage he decided keeping Laura and Shadow apart was more important than giving newly-freed Shadow a lift.

Bottom line, Wednesday is kind of a dick.

Edited March 26, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Drogo]

Just now, WatchrTina said:

I don't think Wednesday wanted Shadow to be busted up.  On the contrary he went to the trouble of rescuing him (he just did it an indifferent-god-like, catastrophic way.)  But I do agree that he wants Shadow on his own.  As such, upon discovering Laura in the wreckage he decided keeping Laura and Shadow apart was more important than giving newly-freed Shadow a lift.

Bottom line, Wednesday is kind of a dick.

"Am I the only one with any faith in Shadow?  "Sometimes the shortest way for Shadow to get where he needs to go is also the longest way." (paraphrasing)

More than anyone else, Wednesday needs Shadow to believe in Shadow.  I think Wednesday knows Shadow's capable of more than he gives himself credit for.  Very Perseus-y.

[tennisgurl]

On 3/25/2019 at 9:39 AM, Drogo said:

*sees Laura sneak in with blade*
Hey guys..?
*remembers tentacle-sex and dislike for both New Media and Argus*
Never mind.

That was hilarious, one of the highlights of the episode. 

I've actually liked the season so far just fine (although I do see what critics are complaining about), but this one was where I saw some real cracks appearing. While there were a lot of individual scenes and moments I like, such as the scenes with Laura and Wednesday at ARGUS seeing various former places he has lived, including the Library at Alexandria and the myth of Io, those felt very season one to me, and I liked the introduction of Sam Black Crow and Shadow asking if she was human (I mean after all this, thats a valid question) and I am at least cautiously interested in New Media. They clearly have to make something else work now that Gillian Anderson is gone, so much like a lot of issues in this season, you can see them trying to make the best out of a bad situation. And I like the continuing adventures of Salim and his Jinn boyfriend. 

Mad Sweenys string of bad luck is hilarious, poor guy. Even his hair has become increasingly sad. 

The rest though, just seemed like padding, more going through the motions of American Gods, but without the styalism that helped make some of the padding of season one work. You can see the show trying to mimic the style of season one at times, and sometimes it works, and sometimes it really doesent. 

[JayBird23]

In case you were wondering:  Rotten Tomatoes Ratings for the first three episodes of Season Two.

House on the Rock 89%

The Beguiling Man 78%

Muninn 63%

This makes sense to me.  The dialogue in Ep. 3 Muninn was so poor not even Al Pacino could have made it work.

This series will rebound next year in Season Three.  You learn by your mistakes and AG is really learning a lot here in Season 2.  We will try again next week, I'm sure Gaiman will try to get things on track.  

[rab01]

5 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I have to disagree with part of the assertion above.  I think Wednesday stopped the train to set Shadow free from his captors because he didn't know that Laura and Sweeney were already on the job and moments away from freeing Shadow. They were plan B but he was still pursuing Plan A by sacrificing Betty.  But when he found Laura in the wreckage he decided to quickly hustle her out of there and leave Shadow behind -- knowing that Shadow was now out of his captor's clutches and trusting that he was capable of getting away on his own.  Wednesday needs Shadow on his own for some reason.  He went to the trouble of killing Laura so that Shadow would be unencumbered and available to become his "bodyguard" following his release from prison. He orchestrated that whole "cute meet" between him and Shadow in first class on the plane.  We still don't know why Wednesday is so interested in Shadow but it's clear that Shadow is important to him.  As such, he would not want Shadow to see Laura all busted up -- that might have had unintended consequences with regard to whatever puppet-master Wednesday/Odin is up to.  Of course Shadow has already seen Laura, his dead wife, covered in blood and exhibiting super-strength by stomping the life out of one of his tormentors on the train so he's already pretty traumatized with regard to Laura already.  But seeing her in bits and pieces while still talking is a whole new level of psychological trauma and I think Wednesday didn't want that.   

I don't think Wednesday wanted Shadow to be busted up.  On the contrary he went to the trouble of rescuing him (he just did it an indifferent-god-like, catastrophic way.)  But I do agree that he wants Shadow on his own.  As such, upon discovering Laura in the wreckage he decided keeping Laura and Shadow apart was more important than giving newly-freed Shadow a lift.

Bottom line, Wednesday is kind of a dick.

I don't know how much (if at all) we disagree.  I didn't mean that he wanted Shadow permanently injured, just ... stressed ... to further him along the path to becoming whatever god or demigod he's supposed to be.  I haven't read the book so I really don't know why Shadow is important to Odin but it's clear that Shadow is not an ordinary human and Odin needs something from him that Shadow is currently *incapable* of doing.  Odin's been putting him through boot camp throughout the series and getting to Cairo on his own is part of that training.

That said, in Norse mythology Odin is known as both deceitful and "all-seeing" so I find it hard to believe that he knew exactly where the train and Shadow were but didn't know that Laura and his servant, Sweeney, were also on the train.  

In addition, we know that Odin killed Laura, was angry last season when she turned up during his big reveal to Shadow, and that he was trying to put a wedge between Laura and Shadow in this episode so I think it's important to Odin that Shadow and Laura are not attached to each other.  I think he more didn't want Shadow to see Laura's attempt to rescue him, than the extent of her injuries.

Bottom-line, I agree that Odin is kind of a dick.  I wonder whether, despite being charming, personable, and the protagonist, he's really the villain of the story.

[Nashville]

My own personal guess RE Wednesday’s treatment of Shadow...?

• At the beginning of the series, Shadow repeatedly proclaimed he did not believe in anything.
• By the S1 finale, Shadow has done a near-180; he now states he believes in “everything”.  Can’t say as I blame him, as Kristin Chenoweth has pretty much the same effect upon me - but...
• I say “near-180”, because Shadow’s conversion from atheist/agnostic to “true believer” is not yet 100% complete.  Shadow does not yet believe in himself - and for reasons as yet unknown, Wednesday desperately needs Shadow to obtain that belief.

So: given this context, I’m wondering if ALL Shadow’s travails (prison, the hanging/beatings, the train, his mother’s death, etc.) aren’t all one great big collective “tough love” exercise, designed for Shadow to learn his own capabilities.

That, or the buildup to one HELLUVA significant final sacrifice.

On 3/25/2019 at 9:13 AM, DarkRaichu said:

I thought Argus was the tech behind the "eye in the sky" spy drones that was responsible for locating the old gods in episode 1. 

Argus was; like Bilquis, TK seduced Argus into adopting New Technology to simplify Argus’s mission on earth.

On 3/25/2019 at 9:13 AM, DarkRaichu said:

Odin was removing the enemies' eyes. 

Always an effective strategy in war. 😉

On 3/25/2019 at 9:13 AM, DarkRaichu said:

Although I have no idea why he was hiding and let Laura go in by herself against 2 (potentially 3) opposing gods.

IHMO Wednesday doesn’t like Laura AT ALL; part of Wednesday’s current mission is to mold Shadow to a particular end, and I suspect Wednesday views Laura’s untimely competitions  for Shadow’s attention and loyalty as an unwelcome distraction.

It is quite possible that Wednesday cannot personally take direct action against Laura, though, as her current incarnation is a direct result of an act of Shadow’s free will (flipping Sweeney’s lucky coin onto Laura’s grave) - but that doesn’t mean Wednesday can’t nudge Laura into situations where somebody else might conceivably contribute to her (re-) demise.  And I doubt Wednesday would lose too much sleep over the prospect.

On 3/25/2019 at 9:13 AM, DarkRaichu said:

Technically, Argus plugged into her har di har har 😛

From the reactions of both parties concerned, I’d guess it was a bi connection.

...as in bidirectional, you filthy-minded apes.  ;>

[Lemur]

20 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I have to disagree with part of the assertion above.  I think Wednesday stopped the train to set Shadow free from his captors because he didn't know that Laura and Sweeney were already on the job and moments away from freeing Shadow. They were plan B but he was still pursuing Plan A by sacrificing Betty.

Disagree.  He explicitly sent them after Shadow from the diner.  

 But when he found Laura in the wreckage he decided to quickly hustle her out of there and leave Shadow behind -- knowing that Shadow was now out of his captor's clutches and trusting that he was capable of getting away on his own.  Wednesday

needs Shadow on his own for some reason.  He went to the trouble of killing Laura so that Shadow would be unencumbered and available to become his "bodyguard" following his release from prison. He orchestrated that whole "cute meet" between him and Shadow in first class on the plane. 

Or ... he had to further weaken Laura so that she would kill Argus to recharge the horde coin, thus putting her in Wednesday's debt. 

Bottom line, Wednesday is kind of a dick.

Absolutely agree.  100%.

[hnygrl]

Finally saw this one. Ended up watching it 3 times. I liked it. A lot. There was a lot of good stuff in here. 

One thing is becoming crystal clear though:

Wednesday is a dick. I'm beginning to hate that guy.

[basil]

Quote

"Any ideas as to what Wednesday needs that very cool little germinated seedling for?  He doesn't strike me as the gardening type."

Wednesday sent the Ifrit out to get a spear. My guess is it has something to do with that.

[hnygrl]

Uh...Mr. WEDNESDAY didn't receive the seedling, the DJINN did. Ifrit exclusively gave it to the DJINN. He said something like "Leave me" before he handed the seedling to the Djinn. The DJINN. It must have some powers that he can use or something. I honestly don't think the seedling goes to Wednesday.

[Morrigan2575]

On 4/3/2019 at 4:29 PM, hnygrl said:

Uh...Mr. WEDNESDAY didn't receive the seedling, the DJINN did. Ifrit exclusively gave it to the DJINN. He said something like "Leave me" before he handed the seedling to the Djinn. The DJINN. It must have some powers that he can use or something. I honestly don't think the seedling goes to Wednesday.

But Death (sorry, he will always be Death from Supernatural to me) said that "he" would need this as well.  I'm assuming that the seedling is important to Wednesday's plan, even if Wednesday doesn't know it yet.

[ombre]

Easily my other least favorite ep.  On rewatch I literally skipped the New Gods scenes.  They're just...  Feh.  It's an interesting thing... I don't know about y'all, but the *ideas* that the New Gods are based on are endlessly fascinating to me - I will happily read articles about how tech, etc are changing our world, but take those ideas and put them in this story/these characters?  It's not that they're villains and I'm revolted by their villain-ity, I'm just... utterly uninterested.

So.  Old Gods et al.  I may have thought this was an underwhelming ep in terms of *how* the story came out, but at least there was a point A and point B for most of the big characters.  Wednesday gave Laura some real truth to chew on, even if her rotting guts can't digest it.  Shadow got to stumble around trying on Wednesday's conning habits.  Wednesday... really screwed Shadow, let him exist for some time in a really broken state.  Spoiler tagging just to be extra careful, since I have seen through Ep 7. 

Spoiler

For me, this is the start of Wednesday's season-long slide from screwy uncle to next door to the devil.  My rewatch has been in part because I wanted to see exactly where and how that happened.  This one seems pretty important for that shift.  I can justify it as oh, he's helping Shadow grow and find his own strength but... I mean... there's "not spotting your absent-minded friend lunch money because they forgot their sandwich for the fifth time this week" tough love and then there's "abandoning him in the woods after his torture session" tough love...

I like how Wednesday and Argus get their own parallel - who needs an all-eyes panopticon when you've got birds eeeeverywhere?

[Nashville]

On 4/27/2019 at 7:16 PM, ombre said:

  Hide contents

For me, this is the start of Wednesday's season-long slide from screwy uncle to next door to the devil.  

IMHO...

Spoiler

Wednesday himself didn’t “slide” in any way; he was always a lying, backstabbing con artist shitburger.  What “slid” was our perception of Wednesday, as more of his true nature is revealed over time.  

And although I haven’t read the book yet, I can’t help but wonder if the author’s (and the director’s) slow reveal of Wednesday’s true nature is meant to simulate for the reader/viewer the experience of those characters who get roped in by Wednesday’s initial deceptions - and the evolution of their horror as the character they initially considered an Eccentric Rich Uncle archetype slowly morphs into an Evil Uncle Ernie who “fiddles about” with their lives for his own personal benefit.