S05.E16: Failure is an Orphan

[Trini]

Quote

With the meta-human cure ready to use, Barry and Team Flash must figure out a way to subdue Cicada long enough to take it. Killer Frost steps in to help with the plan. Meanwhile, Joe eases back into work, and Nora isn't happy about the way her dad plans to stop Cicada.

Viet Nguyen directed the episode written by Zack Stentz.

Airdate: 3/12/2019

[SimoneS]

Ha. I got it right. Adult Grace! I knew it. Thanks to Nora changing the timeline Adult Grace is now Cicada although I am not sure how she traveled back through time or why she killed Dr. Ambres.

Thawne! It must be him. How else could Grace travel into the past. This must have been his plan all along; to set up Barry's death?

Iris wanting to spend time with Nora just makes me roll my eyes. This is the best they could come up with for her?

Cicada smashing Barry was hilarious. Of course, he then flew away after Killer Frost attacked him. 

CCPD! Great to see the set, Barry's lab, and Joe investigating again. Nice to see Barry and Joe having one of their pep talks.

I really hope that Eric Wallace improves Barry's fugly suit for next season. Someone please tweet this suggestion to him.

Edited March 13, 2019 by SimoneS

[BeautifulFlower]

6 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Ha. I got it right. Adult Grace! I knew it. Thanks to Nora to change the timeline Adult Grace is now Cicada although I am not sure how she traveled back through time or why she killed Dr. Ambres.

Thawne! It must be him. How else could Grace travel into the past. This must have been his plan all along; to set up Barry's death?

Iris wanting to spend time with Nora just makes me roll my eyes. This is the best they could come up with for her?

Cicada smashing Barry was hilarious. Of course, he then flew away after Killer Frost attacked him. 

CCPD! Great to see the set, Barry's lab, and Joe investigating again. Nice to see Barry and Joe having one of their pep talks.

I really hope that Eric Wallace improves Barry's fugly suit for next season. Someone please tweet this suggestion to him.

Why? In this episode, they all thought curing Cicada would be the last thing and Nora would go home. It makes sense Iris wants to spend time with what she thought would be Nora's last day. Remember Nora was cold to iris in the beginning. They've been busy with cicada that they haven't had a lot of time.

[SimoneS]

6 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Why? In this episode, they all thought curing Cicada would be the last thing and Nora would go home. It makes sense Iris wants to spend time with what she thought would be Nora's last day. Remember Nora was cold to iris in the beginning. They've been busy with cicada that they haven't had a lot of time.

Because it would have been cooler for Iris to be investigating with Joe or being Barry's confidant than worrying about spending time Nora. Iris deserves a better story.

Edited March 13, 2019 by SimoneS

[cambridgeguy]

Say, whatever happened to Ralph?  Shouldn't he be around to help fight Cicada? 

[SimoneS]

Chris Klein was more horrible than usual tonight. Seriously, who decided to hire him? He is a terrible actor. 

[ruby24]

I'd sure like to know why Joe and Cecile are allowed to kiss and act like a couple, while Barry and Iris aren't.

I'm fully on board the theory that Grant Gustin doesn't want to touch her at this point. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

6 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Say, whatever happened to Ralph?  Shouldn't he be around to help fight Cicada? 

Backpacking through Tibet  ?  That seems to be this season's euphemism for extended time off from filming.

FutureGrace -- really ?   FFS !  And she's more powerful than OG Cicada. 
Just so we get daughters from the future battling it out.

How come Thawne has access to so much tech -- in prison ?  Tech that can monitor changes in the timeline -- how does that work exactly ?

 

[ketchuplover]

I rewrote  some dialogue...

Flash "Please take the cure"

Cicada "After you"

[mxc90]

Did Nora really have to ask Thawne if she screwed up? And he must be delirious to say No.

Nice of the future prison to give Thawne equipment in this cell.

When Barry iced Acid Master's hands, Nora should have been right behind him to slap the cuffs. She is so absent minded!

Is there a rule to not be called in twice in one day for questioning? 

Why was Dr. Ambres the only one to be killed? Especially, when she cared for Gracie in the hospital. There was no reason for her to spare the rest of them. 

I hope the cure improves Dwyer's/Cicada's speech pattern.

Too early to dedicate a drink to XS. What has she done to earn it?

Edited March 13, 2019 by mxc90

[tennisgurl]

Oh yeah, grown up Grace is the second, even more powerful, Cicada! Totally called it! Its kind of clever for Barry to have talked to Dwyer about legacy, when it looks like his niece will be a legacy character of his super villain alter-ego! She is his legacy I suppose. 

I cracked up at Nora trying to pull together every one of Barry's inspirational speeches and put them together into one big uber speech. I mean, I love that Barry wants to give people a shot to be better people, but it does get a bit ridiculous sometimes. 

Thawne must be behind this, and is using Nora for some evil plan. Why do you trust this guy, Nora? He was literally a Nazi from Planet Nazi!

I liked Iris trying to connect with Nora before she left, but what do I have to do to get Barry and Iris to have a plot together? Or any kind of physical affection? Its like when the wedding happened, they assumed we had gotten our WestAllen fill, and could just move on. Nope!

So is Ralph visiting Wally in Tibet? 

Nice seeing some detective work being done, and we even got a classic Joe and Barry pep talk!

[SimoneS]

I didn't even notice that Ralph was missing. That is what happens when a show has too many cast members with only 60 minutes. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

29 minutes ago, mxc90 said:

Too early to dedicate a drink to XS. What has she done to earn it?

Makes me curious what the foam on a Cicada looks like.

16 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I cracked up at Nora trying to pull together every one of Barry's inspirational speeches and put them together into one big uber speech. I mean, I love that Barry wants to give people a shot to be better people, but it does get a bit ridiculous sometimes. 

Wouldn't be a Flash episode without a pep talk.

[thuganomics85]

Team Flash was lucky that Cicada 2.0. apparently only deemed Dr. Ambrose worthy of death, apparently.  Just like how Team Flash keeps letting the villains escape, the villains equally seem to like sparing them, when they probably could finish everything once and for all.  But I guess we wouldn't have a show then, if everyone did things quickly.

But, hey, the new Cicada is actually Grace from the future, which might be cool.  Especially since she is played by Sarah Carter, who I always enjoy (still remember first seeing her as Alicia Baker on Smallville.)  Especially since Chris Klein is somehow getting worse.  They really failed the casting here, and I think that is the main reason I've been finding this season underwhelming.

On the flip side, Joe's return really has been a plus.  Jesse L. Martin really elevates everything, even when the material isn't all there.

Seriously, where is Ralph?

Glad Cisco was back to his fun self here.

The Iris/Nora stuff was boring and predictable.  Nora would be oblivious to her mom's feelings, Iris makes sad faces, and Nora finally pulls her head out of the sand, and we get some weak mom/daughter bonding.  A waste of both actress' time, unless they actually commit to this relationship.

At this point, who doesn't know Barry's identity?

[SimoneS]

5 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

At this point, who doesn't know Barry's identity?

To be fair, Cicada wouldn't recognize him anyway. It isn't like he is famous like Bruce Wayne.

Edited March 13, 2019 by SimoneS

[tennisgurl]

3 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

To be fair, Cicada wouldn't recognize him anyway. It isn't like he is famous like Bruce Wayne.

Lex Luther, after being body switched with the Flash: "If nothing else, I can at least learn the Flash's secret identity." *Removes Flash's cowl, looking into a mirror* "...I have no idea who this is."

-Justice League Unlimited 

[Whimsy]

14 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

But, hey, the new Cicada is actually Grace from the future, which might be cool.  Especially since she is played by Sarah Carter, who I always enjoy (still remember first seeing her as Alicia Baker on Smallville.)  Especially since Chris Klein is somehow getting worse.  They really failed the casting here, and I think that is the main reason I've been finding this season underwhelming.

Im glad some people are happy about it. Personally, something about this actress bugs the crap out of me. I don’t even know why.  As soon as she took her hood down I groaned inwardly and was immediately annoyed. 

[SimoneS]

I don't think that I have ever seen Sarah Carter in anything or if I have, it wasn't a performance that stands out in my memory.

Thawne seemed so affectionate with Nora when she asked him if she screwed up. It reminded me of how he cared about Barry up to when he tried to murder him. Hopefully, Nora learns her lesson the hard way.

Edited March 13, 2019 by SimoneS

[Maverick]

26 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I don't think that I have ever seen Sarah Carter in anything or if I have, it wasn't a performance that stands out in my memory.

Thawne seemed so affectionate with Nora when she asked him if she screwed up. It reminded me of how he cared about Barry up to when he tried to murder him. Hopefully, Nora learns her lesson the hard way.

 Thawne also really cared for Cisco, but that didn't stop him from vibrating his hand through Cisco's heart.

 Sarah Carter was in Shark, along with Danielle Pannabaker.  

 I didn't even realize Ralph was missing either.   

[shantown]

How did Cicada Grace travel back in time? Also how does Nora keep running back and forth in time? Doesn’t anyone wonder where she is? 

[SimoneS]

17 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 Sarah Carter was in Shark, along with Danielle Pannabaker.  

I had to look up up Shark. I could only vaguely remember it. I do remember hearing after that Danielle Panabaker dated repulsive James Woods. Ick.

I hope that Sarah Carter gives a more memorable performance next week.

Edited March 13, 2019 by SimoneS

[Jediknight]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I don't think that I have ever seen Sarah Carter in anything or if I have, it wasn't a performance that stands out in my memory.

She was Alicia in Smallville.  She did a good job, it's just too bad that her character got that horrible payoff.

It's becoming a weekly thing, but seriously Flash, you guys got Chris Klein, while Supergirl got Sam freaking Witwer?  Every week it just becomes a bigger disparity in acting and quality of character (that's due to the actor, Witwer gets more do than stand around).

[SimoneS]

I looked up Alicia, Smallville on YT. I only vaguely remember her. 

The Flash usually has the strongest cast on the CW. Hiring Chris Klein was the ultimate fail. How did they pass on Sam Witwer for this embarrassment? I wonder if we will ever really know whose terrible decision it was to hire Chris Klein. It has to be someone high up in the food chain like Helbing.

Edited March 13, 2019 by SimoneS

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Lex Luther, after being body switched with the Flash: "If nothing else, I can at least learn the Flash's secret identity." *Removes Flash's cowl, looking into a mirror* "...I have no idea who this is."

-Justice League Unlimited 

That was one of my favorite TV superhero moments, for sure.

For a split second, I thought Cicada was going to be Thawne, but it was quickly apparent it was Grace, because it was obviously a woman in the costume.

Speaking of women, I recently read that Jessica Parker Kennedy, the actress who plays Nora, is 34 years old!  I would have sworn that she was about 17 lol!  In fact, I would occasionally feel kind of guilty for thinking she was kind of cute.  I guess it was all right after all.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, shantown said:

How did Cicada Grace travel back in time? Also how does Nora keep running back and forth in time? Doesn’t anyone wonder where she is? 

That's the beauty of time travel. Nora can zip to 2049, chat with Eobard for however long she needs or wants to, and arrive back in 2019 just a minute or so after she left, so nobody in 2019 has any idea that she's even gone anywhere.

[Lantern7]

Hey, everything came to a happy end! Just kidding, Nora might have created a worse menace with Cicada 2.0. She really is Barry's daughter.

Of course Barry would appeal to Cicada by unmasking and dealing with him father-to father. And if you say that Barry isn't technically a dad . . . well, neither is Cicada, though he does have a bit more experience as a guardian. I'm hoping Chris Klein can stop growling now. I mean, he's nowhere near as bad as Diaz over on Arrow, but still . . .

Where's Ralph? He's probably be relieved to find out he missed out on a potential fatal encounter . . . and once he would find out about Killer Shark and Grodd, he'd probably try to kill himself.

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Lex Luthor, after being body switched with the Flash: "If nothing else, I can at least learn the Flash's secret identity." *Removes Flash's cowl, looking into a mirror* "...I have no idea who this is."

"Hey weren't you that guy who murdered the old wheelchair guy?" "That is a long story. I'll set you up with last season's DVDs while you recover."

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Thawne must be behind this, and is using Nora for some evil plan. Why do you trust this guy, Nora? He was literally a Nazi from Planet Nazi!

More like a collaborator. "I get to work with evil types AND fuck with Barry's head? I'm in! Now . . . how exactly did this Oliver Queen become the Fuhrer of this world? Fuck it, I get to be an asshole some more!!" And sadly, that was probably more fun for Eo than working with Damien Dark and Malcolm Merlyn.

51 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

She was Alicia in Smallville.  She did a good job, it's just too bad that her character got that horrible payoff.

??? I got nothin'. I had blocked out a lot of that show before the news about Alison Mack and the cult. Needless to say, that was disappointing.

[Jediknight]

19 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

??? I got nothin'. I had blocked out a lot of that show before the news about Alison Mack and the cult. Needless to say, that was disappointing.

She was the meteor meta that could teleport and had an obsession with Clark.  Her first episode she was a full on villain, the next episode she was in she had been released from Belle Reve, her mental issues under control, although she had a bracelet that prevented her from using her powers.  In that episode she reconnected with Clark, and Clark was happy to see that she had been cured, and it turns out her doctor had a thing for her and threatened to lock her back up.  The threats of the villain doctor, and the fact that the town outside of Clark wouldn't even think about forgiving her, caused her to use Red K on Clark so they could get married.  She removed the Red K, because she didn't love Red K Clark, she loved Clark.  Clark got mad, the asshole doctor confronted Clark, and Clark and Alicia defeated Doctor Shithead.  Clark admitted that he does like Alicia, and wants to give it a chance.  In her 3rd episode, everybody except for Clark are still assgoblins to her (because apparently mental illness is something to be shunned), she's framed for attempted murder, even Clark thinks she's guilty, that causes a break in her where she shows Chloe that Clark has powers, and she's then killed.  I remember Omar's description on that episode for the TWoP recap, was simply "This episode was bullshit."

Her first 2 episodes actually did a good job of developing her character, and getting you to feel bad for her, then the 3rd episode came along and screwed it all up.

Sarah Carter can pull off the role of a sympathetic villain that can lose the villain part, the writing for The Flash is just going to have to help her out.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Jediknight

[Brinny]

Joe's back one week and questions Dr. Ambres. Detective West, never leave us again! (For real though, Jesse L. Martin is good now, right? That man is a treasure.)

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Lex Luther, after being body switched with the Flash: "If nothing else, I can at least learn the Flash's secret identity." *Removes Flash's cowl, looking into a mirror* "...I have no idea who this is."

-Justice League Unlimited 

I think about this joke way more often than I should. It's so good. Flash is voiced by Michael Rosenbaum in this one too, yeah?

I'm bummed that during Joe and Barry's talk about working with your spouse, Barry spoke in such general terms. I mean, it was a nice sentiment, but c'mon, dude: amp it up! You're Barry and Iris! You're the gold standard! (I know Barry is a fictional character. I know this a writer issue. I get it. But speaking of writers, wasn't this the episode that Zack Stentz said was supposed to include a dirty Barry/Iris joke? Either it was a) really subtle and I missed it; b) I'm too innocent to cotton on to double entendres; or c) cut from the episode. If it's c), I'm extra bummed.)

Also, I know I was singing Ralph's praises awhile ago, but I kind of don't miss him? Like, I like when he shows up and I think Hartley Sawyer is super adorbs or whatever, but there's a lot of cast right now and I'm okay if he's just reoccurring. Although, they should have a little in-show explanation as to where Ralph is, no? Because it's pretty glaring when a team member isn't there and some meta killing crazy dude with a dagger is roaming the streets. 

On the topic of Cicada: guys, I can't take Chris Klein anymore. Who decided this was a good idea? He's not famous enough for stunt casting. He's not tangentially related to any comic IP. He's not a good actor. Who let this happen? Have the not seen that Mama Mia audition video? I wasn't a fan of the DeVoe storyline last season, but at least the acting was serviceable. This is intolerable. 

5 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Sarah Carter can pull off the role of a sympathetic villain that can lose the villain part, the writing for The Flash is just going to have to help her out.

I agree. I really liked her on Smallville. She was insanely charismatic and generated a lot of chemistry with the cast over, what? A three episode arc? Basically, she's the anti-Chris Klein. Maybe they should have gone in this direction from the beginning?

[Trini]

8 minutes ago, Brinny said:

But speaking of writers, wasn't this the episode that Zack Stentz said was supposed to include a dirty Barry/Iris joke? Either it was a) really subtle and I missed it; b) I'm too innocent to cotton on to double entendres; or c) cut from the episode. If it's c), I'm extra bummed.)

It was cut. But Zack talks about the joke and why it was cut in this Twitter thread:

[Cthulhudrew]

A lot of pomp and circumstance resulting in an identity reveal that was not at all surprising, eh?

(I mean, didn't they basically telegraph it with many anvils in the episode where they traveled into Grace's head?)

On another note, it's so incredible what gravitas Jesse L. Martin brings this show. Especially now that Tom Cavanagh's performance fluctuates as often as Sherloque's accent. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Cthulhudrew

[Cthulhudrew]

3 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Makes me curious what the foam on a Cicada looks like.

It has the same basic shape as the XS lightning bolt, but painfully overblown.

[Brinny]

Much obliged @Trini! (FWIW, I still think that joke tonally could have worked, but I don't make a TV show, so what do I know? I also don't know if tonally is the right word there, but I'm very tired. DST is the worst.)

I actually paused to look at the list they'd created to see if the joke was in there (I was thinking it would be along conception lines, but then quickly realized that wouldn't work as this was stuff to do WITH Nora before she left and...oh boy, anyway) and, of note, apparently Barry and Iris wanted to take her skiing, zip lining and camping, do a Star Wars movie marathon (Barry, I'm assuming), go to a Rocky midnight screening (Iris?), play laser tag and...teach her how to drive (because of self-driving cars in the future maybe?)

ALSO, Grandma Esther finally gets a recipe that sounds like something someone would eat! (I've spend an inordinate amount of time trying to determine what her noodle dish is supposed to be. When it was first introduced, I thought it was a joke because no one says what kind of noddles or any other descriptor. Like, I'm assuming it's a casserole of some kind, and I think we've may have actually even glimpsed it, but "noodle dish" is just SO vague that it sounds terribly off-putting.)

[Trini]

So now we have TWO future daughters in the present?? Figured Grace would be the next Cicada, but didn't think we'd be seeing her now - in the present - in this episode! And she's more powerful than Orlin was. Oh boy.

The reveal that the New Cicada was (adult!) Grace wasn't a surprise, but her showing up at STAR Labs was a real twist.

She's not a speedster, so how did she time travel? Can they give the cure to Grace now and stop her from existing? (Though I'm sure New Cicada has a plan to stop them from doing that.)

Obviously things aren't over yet, but I was surprised that they were actually able to give the cure to Orlin/Cicada.

--

BTW, the other metahuman in this episode, Acid Master, is an actual character that appeared in like one comic; but the original wasn't a metahuman.

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

But, hey, the new Cicada is actually Grace from the future, which might be cool.  Especially since she is played by Sarah Carter, who I always enjoy (still remember first seeing her as Alicia Baker on Smallville.) 

Thank you!  I was trying to figure out where I knew her from.  

[Trini]

Can Zack Stentz stay forever? I thought this was a solid episode. The only person who didn't get much to do was Cisco, but even he had some fun lines and got to be in the action scene at the end.

Joe and Cecile got a nice subplot that connected directly to the A-plot; and we got to see them work together.

Loved that we got some more West-Allen family scenes, and an Iris/Nora subplot. Aw, the Jitters scene with them was cute. But I'm still upset that everyone gets a drink except Vibe. Come on!

I thought they(Nora) were making way too big a deal about Barry finding the perfect words to convince Cicada to go along with Team Flash's plan. But it did get us a nice Joe/Barry scene. And both of them were able to help each other with their respective situations. (Please never leave again JLM!)

Also considering that Stentz is a guest writer, I loved all the references to the previous seasons that were made. (It's like he actually watches the show!) So why is it so hard for the regular writers to know what happened before??  And he also remembered that this season's theme is legacy and family.

Even Sherloque got another clue about Nora's shadiness. But why is no one else suspicious of her behavior??  SIGH

One thing I did NOT like was Dr. Ambres getting killed off, right after we finally find out more about her, and she actually helped the Team. (And had given care to both Grace and Orlin.) Not necessary; and she left alive all the other metas that should be on her kill list.

I know we'll never see him again, but Acid Master seems like a perfect candidate for the Cure.

[AnimeMania]

One logical inconsistency on the show. Cicada's power is to stop other Metas from using their Meta powers. Barry says that his "Flash" powers started working again after Cicada was given the cure. Before this, Cecile uses her Meta powers to feel the "rage" in Cicada and excuse herself from the room. Cecile's Meta powers shouldn't have worked since she was standing right next to Barry and his Meta powers didn't work. 

[Jediknight]

44 minutes ago, Brinny said:

do a Star Wars movie marathon (Barry, I'm assuming)

Iris could be down with it.  I'd imagine if it wasn't something that meant a lot to both of them, Cisco would have been invited (he is part of the family).

Gotta mention it again, even in just that interaction at Jitters, Barry and Iris are the most adorable Beeboverse couple.

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Why? In this episode, they all thought curing Cicada would be the last thing and Nora would go home. It makes sense Iris wants to spend time with what she thought would be Nora's last day. Remember Nora was cold to iris in the beginning. They've been busy with cicada that they haven't had a lot of time.

I know originally Nora said she was sticking around to fix what she'd changed but I thought that was just part of her excuse since her real reason for being there was to keep Barry from vanishing.  So I'm confused as to why she acted like this would change everything and she could go home.  

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

The Iris/Nora stuff was boring and predictable.  Nora would be oblivious to her mom's feelings, Iris makes sad faces, and Nora finally pulls her head out of the sand, and we get some weak mom/daughter bonding.  A waste of both actress' time, unless they actually commit to this relationship.

At this point, who doesn't know Barry's identity?

I didn't get that Nora was oblivious to what Iris wanted just really thought then was so not the time.  And it really wasn't if Barry stopping Cicada was a time sensitive last chance thing.  Later when Nora talked to Iris, it seemed like she'd changed her mind about what mattered most, not that she'd been clueless before.  

I think I am sympathetic also to Nora's more nonchalant viewpoint because sure, Iris isn't going to have the same kind of relationship with Nora when time is flowing normally but most moms don't get to pal around with their kids while they are the same age.  Iris getting in the way of stopping Cicada seemed to me like her priorities were off.  Iris might really want those experiences, but they are a bonus, not something that should be prioritized.   

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

Hey, everything came to a happy end! Just kidding, Nora might have created a worse menace with Cicada 2.0. She really is Barry's daughter.

Of course Barry would appeal to Cicada by unmasking and dealing with him father-to father. And if you say that Barry isn't technically a dad . . . well, neither is Cicada, though he does have a bit more experience as a guardian. I'm hoping Chris Klein can stop growling now. I mean, he's nowhere near as bad as Diaz over on Arrow, but still . . .

Unless stuff for the Crossover is already happening and those big bads brought Cicada 2.0 over either through time or from another earth.  I know Thawn first comes to mind but how does this help him in any way?  

Nothing can be as bad as mush mouth Diaz.  Imagine if Team Flash let Cicada escape at the end of the season and the show decided to hire back Chris Klein for next season as well.  Feel my pain!

49 minutes ago, Trini said:

It was cut. But Zack talks about the joke and why it was cut in this Twitter thread:

I think they got it wrong cutting both the Dad joke and the later party.  It would be jarring but it's SUPPOSED to be jarring that Nora works with Thawn who hates her dad while she's also having happy family time with her parents.  At this point, anything to highlight the disparity of her actions only makes when they find out about her work with Thawn more dramatic.  

[Trini]

Forgot to mention - I actually laughed when Barry showed Cicada his face, because of course he did! But I have to give him some props for being able to restrain himself for so long, though.

A bigger problem is that New Cicada* knows that most of the people at STAR Labs are metahumans, and are top priority targets.

*(Future Cicada? Grace Cicada? Cicadette?)

[VCRTracking]

The new Cicada already looks better to me than the old one. No more unintentionally funny permafrown and "Kubrick stare".

I remember Sarah Carter's character Alicia on Smallville mostly of how she reminded me of Emily Valentine, Brandon Walsh's "crazy ex" on Beverly Hills 90210 but got better later.

18 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think they got it wrong cutting both the Dad joke and the later party.  It would be jarring but it's SUPPOSED to be jarring that Nora works with Thawn who hates her dad while she's also having happy family time with her parents.  At this point, anything to highlight the disparity of her actions only makes when they find out about her work with Thawn more dramatic.  

I agree.  I can also picture Barry saying "We've been practicing!" with a grin, Iris being appalled and Nora's like "Ew gross, Dad!"

I wish Iris had mentioned how she never got to spend time talking with her mom when she was an adult.

[Brinny]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

Forgot to mention - I actually laughed when Barry showed Cicada his face, because of course he did! But I have to give him some props for being able to restrain himself for so long, though.

A bigger problem is that New Cicada* knows that most of the people at STAR Labs are metahumans, and are top priority targets.

*(Future Cicada? Grace Cicada? Cicadette?)

I think it needs to be a name smoosh. Gracada. 

8 hours ago, Jediknight said:

Iris could be down with it.  I'd imagine if it wasn't something that meant a lot to both of them, Cisco would have been invited (he is part of the family).

Gotta mention it again, even in just that interaction at Jitters, Barry and Iris are the most adorable Beeboverse couple.

I’m sure Iris would be down too, but I would bet that it would have been Barry’s suggestion as she does seem adorably clueless about 70s and 80s sci-fi nerd culture (mixing up Star Trek and Star Wars, thinking Marty McFly was from Terminator), which led to two of my favourite confused Barry headshakes as Iris stood there looking so proud of her inaccurate geek knowledge.

They really are a cute couple. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Brinny

[Brinny]

3 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I can also picture Barry saying "We've been practicing!" with a grin, Iris being appalled and Nora's like "Ew gross, Dad!"

I wish Iris had mentioned how she never got to spend time talking with her mom when she was an adult.

Right? Such a great joke. *le sigh* 

Also good point about Iris. 

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

*(Future Cicada? Grace Cicada? Cicadette?)

Lady Cicada or Lady Cicady or Ciclady 

[mxc90]

9 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Makes me curious what the foam on a Cicada looks like.

My creation: there will be no foam to match his dull personality.

[SimoneS]

I still don't understand why no one on Team Flash seems concerned about the changes that Nora's presence has been making to the timeline. It is one of the weakness of this season. I really hope Nora is gone by the season finale. 

Usually I love Jessica Parker Kennedy's performances, but I thought she was not good last night. Maybe even the cast is tired of the season and just trying to get through it at this point.

5 hours ago, Trini said:

Can Zack Stentz stay forever? I thought this was a solid episode. The only person who didn't get much to do was Cisco, but even he had some fun lines and got to be in the action scene at the end.

I don't get the love for Stentz. Even at my most generous, I would rate last night's episode as average. If Grace hadn't show up at the end, the episode would be rated even lower. 

[cambridgeguy]

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

To be fair, Cicada wouldn't recognize him anyway. It isn't like he is famous like Bruce Wayne. 

Maybe not, depending on how much coverage the Devoe trial got but Cicada does know about Iris and had the smarts to google her.  A quick search would probably bring up a photo of the two of them together.

[SimoneS]

I have a real issue with Grace brutally mercilessly killing Dr. Ambres who had been treating her since she was injured. 

I think that Thawne must be involved in Grace time travelling to the past. How else would Grace know how to time travel? And the timing, just before she was going to be given the cure, is no coincidence. This must be part of Thawne's plan to free himself and hurt Barry in the process, but it is impossible to see how this will play out.

Edited March 13, 2019 by SimoneS

[ottoDbusdriver]

21 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I still don't understand why no one on Team Flash seems concerned about the changes that Nora's presence has been making to the timeline. It is one of the weakness of this season. I really hope Nora is gone by the season finale. 

I'm starting to hope that Nora will time change herself out of existence, so that this season never occurred. </sarcasm>

The bigger question is -- the longer Nora stays in the present, shouldn't the future change every time she travels back and forth to visit Thawne ? Because Nora is causing significant disruptions in the timeline.  Initially small changes, but as she stays longer the changes in the future get more abrupt.  I'd like to see Nora go to the future to visit Thawne, and Thawne ask who she is.
 

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

The bigger question is -- the longer Nora stays in the present, shouldn't the future change every time she travels back and forth to visit Thawne ? Because Nora is causing significant disruptions in the timeline.  Initially small changes, but as she stays longer the changes in the future get more abrupt.  I'd like to see Nora go to the future to visit Thawne, and Thawne ask who she is.

Nora is definitely changing the future. Not that Team Flash seems to care. However, she is sending Thawne data constantly which allows him to monitor what she is doing and manipulate the past so she isn't likely to change anything that impacts him negatively. I still don't understand why Nora thinks that Thawne could or wants to stop Cicada. We will find out soon enough.

Ever since we found out that Nora has been working Thawne, I have been convinced that she will erase herself out of existence or die trying to stop Thawne from killing Barry. I will stick with those predictions. The show wants us to be empathetic towards Nora, but the way this story has been written, she just comes off as a fool who deserves what she is about to get.

I am going to chalk up the technology in Thawne's cell along with Nora dashing in and out at will to Iron Heights' notoriously lax security.

Edited March 13, 2019 by SimoneS

[adora721]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

Can they give the cure to Grace now and stop her from existing?

Nope; they need her consent. However, she's a minor at this point, so her uncle Orlin would have to consent. Even though the team knows Orlin consented, there's no written consent record, and Dr. Ambres is dead, so she can't vouch for Orlin's consent either.

So, Team Flash will just allow another serial murderer to go on killing because of lack of consent. Funny how the police don't ask perps for consent to tase or shoot them when deemed necessary to stop them.

Edited March 13, 2019 by adora721