S02.E10: Blood of Patriots

[ketose]

17 hours ago, Corvino said:

I'm glad other people brought up the episode's not dealing with what happened to the pseudo-daughter. She was fascinating both as a supposedly traumatized mute and then as the secret weapon. I thought she was going to turn out to be Orin's weapon, but I thought it would be by her having developed some Carrie-like destructive powers under Krill mistreatment. Explosive blood! Ha! Anyway, I wanted to know! I spent the two post-pre-treaty scenes yelling at the screen "WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PSEUDO-DAUGHTER?"

I like Welnoc's initial suggestion that she was just sent home to her people. They could assume she was a victim of PTSD (even if he met her after he escaped from the POW camp; she wouldn't have been sitting pretty in Krill territory wherever she was) and cut her some slack for threatening Talla. I was pleased that the Krill commander said they weren't interested in her, which meant they didn't know she was the weapon, which meant our people were free to be nice. If she had any sense, under the changed circumstances she'd claim she was an innocent victim of Orin's obsession, anyway.

The Union isn't really obligated to turn her in since there's no formal extradition treaty.

4 hours ago, tv-talk said:

So why was it that all the scans done by the Orville and the Krills didnt pick up what the daughter was but then Claire knew? Is the idea that the green blood was the give away but scans cant pick it up? If scans cant tell that she is a walking bomb, they need to get some new scanners- the Krill too.

I think it depends on the scan. Since the iodide compound is in the blood plasma, it might take a medical scan to find it.

Also, Nitrogen Iodide is apparently a real thing

[ganesh]

I loved this episode because I've been saying that I wanted Ed to be some sort of mediator with the Krill. 

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Scott Grimes is 47.

What's his diet? Because I thought he was early 30s. 

5 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Yay for Yaphit.  That was a great way to recognize side characters and make the Orville feels like a real ship with real diverse crew.

I thought it was a great detail to add. 

I actually liked that Gordon got to a point where it was 'nope - I'm not doing that.' He didn't even hesitate or waver. 

On 3/7/2019 at 8:18 PM, Superclam said:

Yes, but at one point he sounded exactly like Steve Smith from American Dad.

That's really all I know him from which is why I was so blown away when he sang a couple of weeks ago. 

[Ottis]

This one couldn’t be more telegraphed and predictable if they had written the plot on their foreheads. 

From the moment Orrin said hello in sickbay it was clear this was a “victim is actually a bad guy whose insistent views of the bad guys are a cover for his own actions” plot. And the girl was the weapon, of course, shades of Firefly.

Every time Orrin appeared on screen, everything he said provided more evidence. And of course we had to deal with “the old friend who can’t believe the bad guy is a bad guy.”

They should have made Orrin more psychotic and single minded about revenge on the Krill. Just drop the pretense that he is actually A OK.

I’ll wave away the ridiculousness of the urine sample and other boarding procedures. That alone would have stopped any diplomacy in its tracks. 

And the “you’re jealous” thing was beyond stupid. Who thinks like that? That must be a millennial thing. And then they come back to it? That was just ignorant. Be adults. 

The show also focused on the wrong point. If Orrin didn’t know there was a cease fire, then he didn’t knowingly violate it. No one seemed interested in that little point on the Union side. That would have been a more interesting debate. 

The shuttle set up was obvious too. It would have been cooler for the Krill to rescue Gordon. And of course, Seth, I mean, Ed, is the hero again. 

And damned if they didn’t end up in the bar exactly as predicted when Ed showed up in Gordon’s quarters. Sigh. 

Maybe I have just seen too much science fiction. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Ottis
There is no Seth in we

[tv-talk]

2 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

IIRC she squirmed away whenever the doc tried to scan her.  The doc probably respected the Not!daughter's privacy so much she wouldn't force her to get a proper scan.  This goes back to my point above about the Union being too trusting

Right but Talla said she scanned everyone as thoroughly as possible and detected no threat. Have to assume Krill did same. Meanwhile the daughters blood is so dangerous just a sample can destroy starships on contact with nitrogen...yet the scans cant detect that. Nor the fact she isnt human. Of course part of all these shows is suspension of disbelief but some things are more egregious than others.

[Omeletsmom]

On 3/8/2019 at 5:43 AM, Biggie B said:

I wish there would've been one throw-away line at the end that explained what happened to the "daughter." What did they do with her, especially since she's such a danger?

I figured she blew up because her blood was exposed to an atmosphere made of mostly nitrogen.

[k2p2]

10 hours ago, marinw said:

So why was Dude back in uniform so quickly? Isn't there some sort off debriefing-readjustment protocal to follow?

Thank you! It drives me nuts when someone comes on board with a good story, and they give him the run of the ship and the ship's database. (And not just on the Orville. The same thing happened when Khan showed up on TOS, among other examples.)

I would think that engineering, especially, would have a couple of layers of security to clear, including fingerprint or retina scans.

[Mr. R0b0t]

I feel robbed of a scene where Ed tries to pin a medal on Yahpit.  

[ketose]

1 hour ago, Omeletsmom said:

I figured she blew up because her blood was exposed to an atmosphere made of mostly nitrogen.

So, after reading about the actual chemical combination of iodides and nitrogen, the compound needs to be dry (her blood was still running) and there needs to be a physical impact. Once the nitrogen was purged, the blood plasma had no nitrogen to bind to.

I would think she doesn't want to die without killing some Krill and the Orville probably made her get into a space suit as they marched out through a nitrogen-free ship.

[DarkRaichu]

2 hours ago, tv-talk said:

Right but Talla said she scanned everyone as thoroughly as possible and detected no threat. Have to assume Krill did same. Meanwhile the daughters blood is so dangerous just a sample can destroy starships on contact with nitrogen...yet the scans cant detect that. Nor the fact she isnt human. Of course part of all these shows is suspension of disbelief but some things are more egregious than others.

Talla was just checking for weapons, she was not using whatever medical scanner the doc was using.  Also, Orrin never said the girl was a Krill prisoner like him.  He met the girl AFTER he escaped from Krill's prison. 

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Talla was just checking for weapons

Yes, but for the sake of argument, wasn't her blood a weapon? I mean, doesn't Talla check for stuff that 21st century bomb-sniffing dogs would have found?

[ketose]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes, but for the sake of argument, wasn't her blood a weapon? I mean, doesn't Talla check for stuff that 21st century bomb-sniffing dogs would have found?

The "bomb" is not her blood, but the compound that results when the blood plasma makes contact with Nitrogen. They'd need to have some kind of scanner that detects molecules of iodine and possibly ammonia inside of blood cells. I'd think a medical scan would reveal this, but only one of those powerful Kaylon scans would find it inside of a person at a distance.

[shapeshifter]

32 minutes ago, ketose said:

The "bomb" is not her blood, but the compound that results when the blood plasma makes contact with Nitrogen. They'd need to have some kind of scanner that detects molecules of iodine and possibly ammonia inside of blood cells. I'd think a medical scan would reveal this, but only one of those powerful Kaylon scans would find it inside of a person at a distance.

That makes sense, but as an obsessively Doylist viewer and poster, I can't help imagining 2050 viewers eye-rolling as they watch reruns of this episode in a world where, who knows?, maybe every being's DNA is cataloged and available in the blink of an eye. 
Of course, if this were literally true, perhaps eye-rolling will trigger a red alert. Heh.

[Cobb Salad]

12 hours ago, k2p2 said:

Thank you! It drives me nuts when someone comes on board with a good story, and they give him the run of the ship and the ship's database. (And not just on the Orville. The same thing happened when Khan showed up on TOS, among other examples.)

I would think that engineering, especially, would have a couple of layers of security to clear, including fingerprint or retina scans.

When they showed Orin walking through Engineering like he’s always been on the ship I knew that would be trouble.  Any good ship would probably have areas that are secured within the secured area, like only for those with the role that deals with that stuff.  This is like some parts of a company’s IT area like server rooms that you’d need a badge with certain access, they don’t let just anyone (even IT people) walk in unless it’s part of their job.  

[tv-talk]

Hard to envision the ship's security scanning doesnt even detect what race people coming aboard are, worse still is the fact that humans knew about this race of potential bombs- so much so that they'd intentionally avoided contact with them, yet the scan doesnt detect the threat. If we apply this logic all the way thru, when a shuttle lands in the bay no one knows who is in it until the doors open. Maybe that's how it works but given all the other tech hard to envision basic scanning is so rudimentary. 

[ketose]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

That makes sense, but as an obsessively Doylist viewer and poster, I can't help imagining 2050 viewers eye-rolling as they watch reruns of this episode in a world where, who knows?, maybe every being's DNA is cataloged and available in the blink of an eye. 
Of course, if this were literally true, perhaps eye-rolling will trigger a red alert. Heh.

I'll watch shows where people are alone and can't contact someone and I'll have to remember "Oh, that was before cell phones" and I lived half my life when cell phones were either attached to cars or cost a month's salary. Technology is always a guess. Back to the Future had flying cars, but people were still sending faxes in 2015.

1 hour ago, tv-talk said:

Hard to envision the ship's security scanning doesnt even detect what race people coming aboard are, worse still is the fact that humans knew about this race of potential bombs- so much so that they'd intentionally avoided contact with them, yet the scan doesnt detect the threat. If we apply this logic all the way thru, when a shuttle lands in the bay no one knows who is in it until the doors open. Maybe that's how it works but given all the other tech hard to envision basic scanning is so rudimentary. 

The word "scanning" is hard to define because it's basically trying to quantify the universe with a nondestructive energy "beam" that can somehow sniff out anything. I have more problems with the idea that a humanoid could walk around with highly reactive blood and none of her other biological systems held the same danger.

Even if an Envol wanted to travel to a Union planet, they'd be likely to get themselves killed. It doesn't make sense for them to travel to a planet with a Nitrogen atmosphere unless they were homicidal or suicidal. Someone who studied history or medicine might know about it, but Envols are probably not traveling all over the galaxy. Why scan for it? We don't check people coming into this country for Smallpox or Ebola as a matter of course and those diseases are extremely dangerous.

[tv-talk]

1 hour ago, ketose said:

Why scan for it? We don't check people coming into this country for Smallpox or Ebola as a matter of course and those diseases are extremely dangerous.

If just passing thru a metal detector could scan for Smallpox and Ebola too then yes every person coming into the country would be checked for it. That's the general disconnect with most sci-fi shows and why Suspension of Disbelief is required- the tech clearly available would eliminate so many of the plot points. At least with the gay Moclan you were dealing with an elite engineer who was overwriting systems and trying to fool everyone, a guy who cloaked himself so he couldnt be found. That was good stuff. A little boy wandering off the ship without being noticed? Not so much.

[Ceindreadh]

3 hours ago, tv-talk said:

Hard to envision the ship's security scanning doesnt even detect what race people coming aboard are, worse still is the fact that humans knew about this race of potential bombs- so much so that they'd intentionally avoided contact with them, yet the scan doesnt detect the threat. If we apply this logic all the way thru, when a shuttle lands in the bay no one knows who is in it until the doors open. Maybe that's how it works but given all the other tech hard to envision basic scanning is so rudimentary. 

Perhaps Talla’s ‘boarding protocols’ should be extended to all visitors and not just the ones they want to stall!

i loved the “have you met a Selayan before?” (Thud) “you have now” exchange. 

[ganesh]

We did learn a few weeks ago that the Union is new. As much as I don't like comparing the show to Trek, when TOS first started, the Federation was already quite established, so I think we're invariably looking at this show from that pov. It's not a criticism of anyone. When these kind of issues were raised in S1, there were some of us who speculated that the Union might be newer than we thought. 

So when we're saying 'why didn't they do this or that?' it's simply because they don't know what they don't know. Now, they need to learn from their mistakes, and should be called out when they don't. But making these kinds of mistakes I can roll with to a point. 

That's why I think the show has much much more in common with Babylon 5 than Trek, and I thought that from the first episode. 

[tv-talk]

33 minutes ago, ganesh said:

That's why I think the show has much much more in common with Babylon 5 than Trek

Idk, The Union is a direct copy of the Federation as is all the high-minded ideals behind it and the notion of what humanity had evolved into over the centuries. And that's before you get to part where The Orville is an exploratory vessel whose mission is to seek out new civilizations and species, just like the Enterprise. And on and on and on. In fact I would say McFarlane's intent was  to make a pretty direct homage to Star Trek, and that it'll get more interesting when the show and it's arcs are established to the point he moves beyond that.

[Bort]

1 hour ago, Ceindreadh said:

i loved the “have you met a Selayan before?” (Thud) “you have now” exchange. 

Me too. From the obviousness that the girl clearly had NOT met a Xelayan before, otherwise she wouldn't have even thought about it, to the blasé look on Talla's face as she had the knife held to her neck.

[marketdoctor]

Quote

Also, Nitrogen Iodide is apparently a real thing

Thanks for sharing that; just like with a lot of science fiction, the more incredible it is, the more based on reality it could be.  (Sometimes distantly based on.)

My only issue is that there are a LOT of plots about lying and betrayal, especially this season.  I hope whatever the writers are going through, it gets better.

[tennisgurl]

Really good episode for Gordon, it was nice to see him actually getting a more dramatic story and get some real development beyond goofy jokes, and Scott Grimes actually did a good job with the story, so kudos to him! I wish he had gotten through to his friend though, it sucks so much that he had to watch his friend commit suicide.

I guess killer robots bring everyone together! I am really looking forward to seeing what it will be like seeing the Krill and the Union working together is like, and also that there are "progressive forces" within the Krill government who are making waves and are pushing for peace, and are gaining power. I love the idea that their society is evolving and there are different political and philosophical forces that are starting to evolve, it makes them as much more interesting species than the usual "all members of this alien race are exactly the same and do all the same things" deal that most shows, including often this one, do.

I admit to seeing most of the episode coming, like Orrin having gone rather insane and trying to end the peace talks before they can start, but I still thought it was quite well done, especially the twist with the daughter. It was a bit cheap to have her as the missing piece, being a new species that we have never heard of and that being the key to the mystery (its like in detective books where the characters have access to information that we dont, so we cant solve the murder) but it didnt hurt the episode that much, it was much more about character than the plot. 

Loved Yaphit getting a medal, he is a very deserving blob alien! I do wonder when we will see more fallout with Issac and the crew after everything that went down, it certainly cant be easy for people to just be used to him again, even if he did save everyone and come around to their side. he seemed to be mostly alone in the crowd shots, so I think we will get more follow up later. 

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

Perhaps Talla’s ‘boarding protocols’ should be extended to all visitors and not just the ones they want to stall!

Hah! I wish that line could have come out of John's mouth.
  
  

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I guess killer robots bring everyone together! I am really looking forward to seeing what it will be like seeing the Krill and the Union working together is like, and also that there are "progressive forces" within the Krill government who are making waves and are pushing for peace, and are gaining power. I love the idea that their society is evolving and there are different political and philosophical forces that are starting to evolve, it makes them as much more interesting species than the usual "all members of this alien race are exactly the same and do all the same things" deal that most shows, including often this one, do.

Perhaps we'll even see a Romeo and Juliet type romance between a Krill and one of the Union races. I can picture them in Victorian wedding garb now. ;>)

[Morrigan2575]

I figured out that the girl was the weapon from the start. However, I figured she would be some super computer genius or something. That she was destroying the ships remotely.

[marinw]

13 hours ago, ganesh said:

We did learn a few weeks ago that the Union is new.

That would explain a lot about the sloppy protocals.

[Affogato]

Do they not make movies? holovids? Or do they just watch planet of the apes? Because the explosive blood alien is made for horror movies. It wasnt a new discovery so why wasnt it generally known? Clare realize zed it right away. 

again it is surprising they spend so much tome with their heads in the past. 

But that is their thing. 

I thought there was some good general tension there at the end. 

[Affogato]

19 hours ago, Cobb Salad said:

When they showed Orin walking through Engineering like he’s always been on the ship I knew that would be trouble.  Any good ship would probably have areas that are secured within the secured area, like only for those with the role that deals with that stuff.  This is like some parts of a company’s IT area like server rooms that you’d need a badge with certain access, they don’t let just anyone (even IT people) walk in unless it’s part of their job.  

I thought he was given the run partially so he could be followed by sispicious security butthat not everyone got the message. That would work, anyway. 

[DarkRaichu]

15 hours ago, ganesh said:

We did learn a few weeks ago that the Union is new.

I think I missed this part.  Did they mention how new? 
We know from this episode that the Union have been in existence for at least 50 years, since the treaty with the Envol happened 50 years ago

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Do they not make movies? holovids? Or do they just watch planet of the apes? Because the explosive blood alien is made for horror movies . . .

I realize having them watch only movies with which we are familiar is for reasons such as audience relatability and the writers' own amusement and time constraints of storytelling, but it also serves to feed my own fanwank/belief that quite possibly in the future there will be no creative motion picture making.

32 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

16 hours ago, ganesh said:

We did learn a few weeks ago that the Union is new.

I think I missed this part

I too only learned of the relatively new Union on this board too. I guess we dozed off or glanced at our crossword puzzles or chewed our snacks loudly or had to mute/shush/answer a family member when it was mentioned? So, yes: How recently did they say the Union was formed?

[Raja]

On 3/9/2019 at 8:33 AM, marinw said:

So why was Dude back in uniform so quickly? Isn't there some sort off debriefing-readjustment protocal to follow?

Back "in" uniform would be standard. In a service like the US Armed Forces with up or out promotion policies he would even be promoted like his average peers were. Like the soldier who left camp and was captured by the Taliban who was a promoted to Sergeant until his Court Martial busted him back down. To just wander the ship with a very loose escort seemed to be their protocol. For now on it might be a bit tighter escort.🤯

I did notice that Lt Gordon seemed to be a practitioner of Kirk fu. He got that double handed back hand hit down like a black belt.

[benteen]

Very good episode.  It definitely reminded me of TNG's "The Wounded" but with their own spin on it and it came out differently.

First off, glad that Yaphit got his medal.  Very well deserved.

Strong episode for Scott Grimes and the Gordon character.  Though showing what he thought was a supposedly traumatized girl Planet of the Apes is probably not the best decision.

I appreciated the situation they put Ed in here, with trying to deal with the Krill while wondering what to do Gordon's friend.  Though the Union has to be the worst organization in the galaxy.

[Bort]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

Strong episode for Scott Grimes and the Gordon character.  Though showing what he thought was a supposedly traumatized girl Planet of the Apes is probably not the best decision.

Also, having supposedly spent her entire life in a Krill prison camp (and as it turned out, not human) and thus unexposed to Earth pop culture, how did Gordon expect her to understand the ending at all?

[Orbert]

I took that scene to be more on the "not serious" side than "serious", since with this show I sometimes have to make that distinction before fully understanding a scene or how to take it.

Basically, it was Gordon being Gordon.  He was spending time with Leyna (or so he thought) but since she's mostly catatonic anyway, he put on a movie that he wanted to watch and didn't think much about how enjoyable or appropriate it would be for her.  I tried to come up with a connection between Planet of the Apes, or maybe just that final scene, and the basic plot of this episode, and came up empty.  I guess that's how I decided that it was just Gordon being Gordon.

[tv-talk]

I think showing Bortus "Rudpolph Red Nosed Reindeer" and the subsequent effect it had was probably best scene in 2 seasons of the show and they were going back to that well...which is a deep one! I do think making girl a pretend mute wasnt best idea, it's always better to have more characters interacting and that scene with Planet of Apes was lost opportunity in that sense.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, kariyaki said:

4 hours ago, benteen said:

Though showing what he thought was a supposedly traumatized girl Planet of the Apes is probably not the best decision.

Also, having supposedly spent her entire life in a Krill prison camp (and as it turned out, not human) and thus unexposed to Earth pop culture, how did Gordon expect her to understand the ending at all?

26 MINUTES AGO, ORBERT SAID:

tried to come up with a connection between Planet of the Apes, or maybe just that final scene, and the basic plot of this episode, and came up empty. I guess that's how I decided that it was just Gordon being Gordon.

That was my take too, but if Orrin had succeeded in destroying the Krill vessel and thereby blowing up the alliance to boot, it would have resulted in the Kaylons wiping out biological life forms, which could be seen as equivalent to the implied nuclear holocaust on Earth in the final scene reveal in Planet of the Apes.  

So Gordon might have thought that movie was a way to convey to a noncommunicative person what was wrong with Orrin's plan. But, since Leyna likely wouldn't recognize the Statue of Liberty, she would not have gotten the point—and I think Gordon recognized that at the end.

[benteen]

My issue with showing a girl you believe has been mistreated by an alien race Planet of the Apes, where apes view humans as savages and treat them as such, is a bad idea.  Probably would bring back some bad memories.

[Bort]

Yeah, Gordon should've shown her something "feel good," like Toy Story.

[Emma9]

On 3/9/2019 at 8:41 PM, Ottis said:

The show also focused on the wrong point. If Orrin didn’t know there was a cease fire, then he didn’t knowingly violate it. No one seemed interested in that little point on the Union side. That would have been a more interesting debate.

I also thought that at first, particularly as it looked like he was trying to escape back to Union space. I wondered why he didn't confess exactly what they did and how, but hold the line about not knowing about the cease-fire, and he would have had a case for being in the right.

However, if he'd done that, he wouldn't have been able to carry out his plan of grabbing a shuttle and using not-daughter's blood to blow up the Krill ship and the peace deal, which the rest of the episode made clear was his primary goal.

I wouldn't be surprised if he knew about the impending peace all along, and his prior attacks had similar motivation. (Possibly even his escape too - breaking out of a Krill camp had to be incredibly dangerous, and after all these decades, he was only now desperate enough to take the risk.)

On 3/10/2019 at 3:08 PM, Ceindreadh said:

i loved the “have you met a Selayan before?” (Thud) “you have now” exchange. 

Same. I assumed Gordon's mutiny was a sham (I don't like him, and figured I couldn't be lucky enough for the character's run to be over), but I would've objected strenuously to his being able to out-draw Talla if they weren't both acting. However, it was still nice to see her revert to badassness in the subsequent scene.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Emma9

[Affogato]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I too only learned of the relatively new Union on this board too. I guess we dozed off or glanced at our crossword puzzles or chewed our snacks loudly or had to mute/shush/answer a family member when it was mentioned? So, yes: How recently did they say the Union was formed?

I dont think they said how new the Union is — and what would that mean? They are in an active recruitment stage. Is this some terran bonnet bee they are trying to make work? I dont aee mercer talking to any yaphitian admirals. 

[Ottis]

4 hours ago, Emma9 said:

I also thought that at first, particularly as it looked like he was trying to escape back to Union space. I wondered why he didn't confess exactly what they did and how, but hold the line about not knowing about the cease-fire, and he would have had a case for being in the right.

However, if he'd done that, he wouldn't have been able to carry out his plan of grabbing a shuttle and using not-daughter's blood to blow up the Krill ship and the peace deal, which the rest of the episode made clear was his primary goal.

I wouldn't be surprised if he knew about the impending peace all along, and his prior attacks had similar motivation. (Possibly even his escape too - breaking out of a Krill camp had to be incredibly dangerous, and after all these decades, he was only now desperate enough to take the risk.)

Same. I assumed Gordon's mutiny was a sham (I don't like him, and figured I couldn't be lucky enough for the character's run to be over), but I would've objected strenuously to his being able to out-draw Talla if they weren't both acting. However, it was still nice to see her revert to badassness in the subsequent scene.

Oh, I agree that Orrin might have known. My point was that the Union didn’t know if he knew or not, and no one from the Union seemed interested in finding out or in using that info as a bargaining point with the Krill. 

[Ubiquitous]

On 3/11/2019 at 8:07 AM, shapeshifter said:

I realize having them watch only movies with which we are familiar is for reasons such as audience relatability and the writers' own amusement and time constraints of storytelling, but it also serves to feed my own fanwank/belief that quite possibly in the future there will be no creative motion picture making.

That reminds me of one of the worst eps of Babylon Five, in which a famous comedian team Rebo & Zootie (played by Penn and Teller) and it was... painful. Everyone talked about how funny they are but when they arrived,  it just fall flat on its face b/c all we saw was their catchphrase and everyone laughing their arses off. 🤷‍♂️

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Ubiquitous said:

That reminds me of one of the worst eps of Babylon Five, in which a famous comedian team Rebo & Zootie (played by Penn and Teller) and it was... painful. Everyone talked about how funny they are but when they arrived,  it just fall flat on its face b/c all we saw was their catchphrase and everyone laughing their arses off. 🤷‍♂️

I liked the bit where they say something to Delenn and she cracks up. It is explained that minbari humour is based on (personal enlightenment?) , different than human humor. I liked the episode. I think the writer described it as looking like the three stooges— you either think it is hilarious or wtf. Something foreign to you should be puzzling and fall flat. People have to work a bit to understand old fashioned humor. 

[ganesh]

The point of that episode wasn't necessarily the comedians per se, though Londo loved them too. 

[Ubiquitous]

2 hours ago, Affogato said:

I liked the bit where they say something to Delenn and she cracks up. It is explained that minbari humour is based on (personal enlightenment?) , different than human humor. I liked the episode. I think the writer described it as looking like the three stooges— you either think it is hilarious or wtf. Something foreign to you should be puzzling and fall flat. People have to work a bit to understand old fashioned humor. 

We never saw their act. It'd be like everyone laughing hysterically after a skinny guy everyone said was hilarious said "Bazinga!". 

[The Kings Foot]

On 3/11/2019 at 12:42 AM, shapeshifter said:

Hah! I wish that line could have come out of John's mouth.
  
  

Perhaps we'll even see a Romeo and Juliet type romance between a Krill and one of the Union races. I can picture them in Victorian wedding garb now. ;>)

You do recall how Romeo and Juliet ended ?

[The Kings Foot]

6 hours ago, Ubiquitous said:

That reminds me of one of the worst eps of Babylon Five, in which a famous comedian team Rebo & Zootie (played by Penn and Teller) and it was... painful. Everyone talked about how funny they are but when they arrived,  it just fall flat on its face b/c all we saw was their catchphrase and everyone laughing their arses off. 🤷‍♂️

The point wasnt for us (the viewer) to judge if they were funny or not , it was to see the various aliens reactions.

[Bort]

Please go ahead and take the comparisons discussion to the more appropriate topic. 

[Emma9]

On 3/11/2019 at 8:32 PM, Ottis said:

Oh, I agree that Orrin might have known. My point was that the Union didn’t know if he knew or not, and no one from the Union seemed interested in finding out or in using that info as a bargaining point with the Krill. 

The trouble was, if the Union believed and supported Orrin's statement that he didn't attack the Krill ships at all, I don't know if tacking on a "...but he would have been justified in doing so even if he did" would have strengthened their position.

Maybe it would have. But that thread being dropped from the plot made sense to me once Orrin's plans were revealed.

[Catfi9ht]

I agree with others that there were some continuity gaps like not addressing Isaac's almost mutiny. This show doesn't seem to do serial well (which may be intentional) but I really enjoy each episode.

I really liked this episode. Exploding blood was a novel idea wrapped in a good old fashioned mystery episode and I always enjoy watching those unfold.

There are lots of good characters this show, but I think Gordon's my favorite. He's funny, a damned good pilot, is a tad mischievous, and has a good heart.

Mackenzie Astin goes from relaxed to intense very well a la the "peace is a mistake" scene. Not alot of actors have the charisma to pull both off.

I'm glad the trap laid by Gordon was obvious and there wasn't the will he/won't he trope.

Just like Cobra Kai is a fan's love letter to Karate Kid, The Orville continues to be a completely enjoyable love letter to Star Trek.

[RobertDeSneero]

On 3/8/2019 at 8:20 AM, Emma9 said:

Also, I wonder how exactly the blood-canisters-as-torpedoes thing worked. In order to react with the nitrogen atmosphere inside the ships, they would have had to first breach their hulls. Even if the Krill were caught off-guard and didn't have their shields up, the canisters would have had to be strong enough to punch through the ships themselves without breaking while still outside and in vacuum (where the blood would presumably be harmless), but then somehow break open once they're inside.

The shuttle doesn't have torpedo launchers, as was pointed out.  The plan was probably to surrender, allow themselves to be brought on board, and open the canisters inside or to use them to blow up the shuttle sufficiently close to a Krill ship.

The logical fate for the fake daughter is that she was handed over to the Krill as a criminal who conspired to attack them.