S03.E15: The Waiting Room

[PumpkinPK]

Other than the fact that Kevin is an alcoholic, and alcoholics are sneaky, without Zoe's comment, did Kevin have any behavioral change after getting his water that would have tipped anyone off that he had a drink (like Kate esp) ?

[alexvillage]

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I'm happy it's animatronic, and that people don't exploit their babies for a network drama, but in reality cameras are allowed into ICUs and ORs, etc. and people do let their children be filmed in all sorts of medical/surgical procedures.  Documentaries, TLC, those sorts of shows.  Different purposes than network primetime maybe, but the same nuts and bolts are involved.  We've seen it before and that's how we're able to notice how realistic the plastic preemie looked. 

Yes, cameras for educational purposes, maybe for family, but not for a TV show where they don't know how long it will take to finish, how many takes, how many people they need to be in the NICU for the taping. Documentaries use different lights, the script is not strict. If they did in a documentary way, it would be obvious in the editing, the difference between the scenes. Besides, there are other babies there and the other parents would probably not be allowed to even be there, let alone the requirements to be silent, to not move, etc. Add that to the child labor laws, it would be not only a terrible idea, but also not viable as a scheduling/budget. The baby scene is just a few seconds but a lot of what is filmed is thrown out or cut in the final editing.

Seriously, I have been in a couple of ads filming when I was really young. I was dancing it it was literally 4 seconds in the add. It took me the WHOLE NIGHT to finish taping for the 4 seconds of screen time. Maybe not a fair comparison since I was an amateur but still. One take takes a lot of preparing, light, sound, you get the picture.

[bybrandy]

4 hours ago, PumpkinPK said:

Eta:  Thinking about now, I wonder if I could get a State ID with the name Baby on it?

I doubt it.  I have a friend who was baby girl and she had to declare a name when her father died when she was a teenager so she could get his social security.   

[Crs97]

I knew a man many moons ago who had the legal name R. O.  When he was drafted for Korea, the army wouldn’t accept it even when he showed his birth certificate and all other legal documents. They made him choose names, and he became Robert Owen ___ for all military purposes.

[ams1001]

5 hours ago, PumpkinPK said:

My original Birth Certificate had the name Baby Lastname.  My parents were waiting for an Aerogramme from my grandparents to get my name.  They received it 10 days after I was born, and went back to the hospital to get one with my name on it.  I still have both, which are both signed and dated with my birthdate (which was yesterday).  I had forgotten all about that until your post.

My birth certificate had my first name spelled wrong. It was fixed by sticking it in a typewriter, typing a line of dashes across the incorrect spelling, and typing the correct spelling above it between two asterisks. It wasn't corrected until over a year after I was born (but I don't know if that was on my parents or the state). So for over a year I officially had a boy's name.

[GodsBeloved]

22 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Randall didn't put off college.  He chose to go to Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh instead of Howard in DC.  He gave up going to a HBCU but still got a stellar education. We don't know if he lived on campus or somewhere with Rebecca,  but even if he lived in a dorm he could see Rebecca anyday of the week.

Yeah I wasn’t sure if he put off college for any length of time but he did put off leaving for college as in moving away from home/Pittsburg because of Rebecca and I don’t think she should have allowed that if she did. Though I think she was perfectly fine with Randall staying home/near and giving up going away for college given she said Kate and Kevin abandoned her and Randall didn’t.

Edited March 16, 2019 by GodsBeloved

[GodsBeloved]

16 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

Double post

Edited March 16, 2019 by GodsBeloved

[Katy M]

8 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

If Randall and Beth get divorced, who gets primary custody of the kids?

Beth won't get to be  a dance instructor, and Randall would have to resign from his political position.  That is a lose, lose situation, and that is without factoring in how the divorce would affect the children.

Randall gets custody.  Beth gets a day job and teaches dance night and weekends.  RAndall and the kids move to Philly, Randall puts the kids in daycare with the child support money.  

[buckboard]

On 3/14/2019 at 5:53 AM, Katy M said:

You bleached your hair for the epi?  Did you dye it back to its natural color afterward?  

I'm not being mean.  I love typos when they actually make the sentence mean something else.

 KATY M's post was in reply to TOPANGA, who posted:  I went into this one blond.  

BLOND must be the typo of the week.   I was reading a mystery  novel last night and  the detective reported: "Cause of death: shock, loss of blond."
 

[Kirkydee]

10 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't know about that.  I was in the hospital a few weeks ago, and a nurse really went off on a 

I wouldn't equate a nurse going off on a patient to the staff holding their tongue on the Pearsons.  They know Kate is a high risk patient who has gone into preterm labor.  So they know there is a certain amount of leeway they'll give the family.  

[Kirkydee]

Also, about Miguel taking a certain level of disrespect.  I believe tgree may be some level of guilt from Miguel.  Or at least empathy.  I know it works for this show, but how many of us would welcome your dead fathers best friend as your mothers next husband.  No matter if it was 10 weeks, months or years.  Especially when he died when you're 18. Can anyone on here close their eyes and see their mother hugging up on their fathers best friend?  Yes the disrespect after these years should've been checked by Becca.  But Miguel may feel like he's in a lose-lose situation (Remember Randall- "Did Miguel just dad voice me?)

[JudyObscure]

23 hours ago, PumpkinPK said:

For me, the obvious answer to this question came right away.  It is the food that I have eaten daily all my life.  Authentic (not white people restaurant style) rice and legume-based spicy Indian food.  Especially dosai, idly, sambar, coconut chutney.  Also same for pretty much any authentic Asian food.  I have not had much Mexican food (the food his parents raised him on?), but it does not seem affable to ranch.  Ofc, this is about the Pearsons, who probably eat a totally sad white people diet of burgers, fries, pizza, assorted frozen chicken etc.  For "exotic" food, a Chinese dinner with chopsticks and fortune cookies.  Mexican food such as quesadillas and burritos.  I hope Zoe wakened Kevin's palate!

There have been several episodes showing Randall cooking from scratch, making cranberry sauce with 30 ingredients, etc.  I don't think Kevin cooks but he has lived in California for a long time and makes tons of money so he has probably eaten at a few quality restaurants with pretty good cooks in the kitchen.  We did see Zoe in Vietnam trying the local food that Kevin wasn't interested in (and getting sick from it) but that seemed to be just her thing.  My (white)  husband lived in Korea and Thailand for years and never ate eyeballs although he loved the local food and ate it everyday.  I've eaten lots of Mexican food and never tried it with Ranch, but a dollop of sour cream, Ranch's near cousin, goes well with much of it.

I'm white, my son is vegetarian, so we have rice with dinner most nights and while it may not be to your taste, I assure it is authentic.  I guess this culinary expertise that you seem to think is attached to the same gene that determines skin pigment occasionally mutates.

[Dminches]

Madison is Kate's only friend.  The family has witnessed how good Madison has been to Kate.  Didn't Madison manage Kate's baby shower? No one could muster up the decency to include her in the waiting process?   The Pearsons can fight with each other all they want.  That's relatively normal for a family.  Completely dissing on an outsider is what makes them pathetic.

[PumpkinPK]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

There have been several episodes showing Randall cooking from scratch, making cranberry sauce with 30 ingredients, etc.  I don't think Kevin cooks but he has lived in California for a long time and makes tons of money so he has probably eaten at a few quality restaurants with pretty good cooks in the kitchen.  We did see Zoe in Vietnam trying the local food that Kevin wasn't interested in (and getting sick from it) but that seemed to be just her thing.  My (white)  husband lived in Korea and Thailand for years and never ate eyeballs although he loved the local food and ate it everyday.  I've eaten lots of Mexican food and never tried it with Ranch, but a dollop of sour cream, Ranch's near cousin, goes well with much of it.

I'm white, my son is vegetarian, so we have rice with dinner most nights and while it may not be to your taste, I assure it is authentic.  I guess this culinary expertise that you seem to think is attached to the same gene that determines skin pigment occasionally mutates.

Hi Judy,

I enjoy all of you posts across many forums.  I didn't mean for my post to come across as white people only eat a typical American diet.

I have been married into a white family for 20+ years, and this is just a term we use in general conversation.  Amongst my friends, I have heard it frequently.  Perhaps it is regional.

I will not generalize in posts.  To be clear, I do not think all white people only cook and eat a standard American diet.  However, a standard American diet exists.  In my social and professional circle, which is 95% Caucasian, that is what is generally purchased, prepared amd consumed.

[PRgal]

On 3/16/2019 at 7:13 AM, PumpkinPK said:

I never tried ranch dressing (or mayo), just the smell of them makes me gag.

For me, the obvious answer to this question came right away.  It is the food that I have eaten daily all my life.  Authentic (not white people restaurant style) rice and legume-based spicy Indian food.  Especially dosai, idly, sambar, coconut chutney.  Also same for pretty much any authentic Asian food.  I have not had much Mexican food (the food his parents raised him on?), but it does not seem affable to ranch.  Ofc, this is about the Pearsons, who probably eat a totally sad white people diet of burgers, fries, pizza, assorted frozen chicken etc.  For "exotic" food, a Chinese dinner with chopsticks and fortune cookies.  Mexican food such as quesadillas and burritos.  I hope Zoe wakened Kevin's palate!

I never liked chocolate either.  We never had it in our home.  I would try it once every couple of years on Halloween.  I tried "adult" dark chocolate a few years ago at someone's insistence, it was so gross.  I can confidently say I will never try it again.

I don't know anything about Eastern European or French foods as they are not suitable for a plant-based diet.  Do those cuisines go with ranch?  

ETA:  I am married to the whitest, most Catholic guy one could ever meet.  He loves ranch dressing and chocolate.  He will put Nutella on anything (eeew).  I don't eat anything packaged, frozen or microwaved.  I cook cuisines from many different cultures.  With the exception of Indian food, he will put ranch on just about every form of potato.

I'd say that's all relative.  I don't like ranch, but I can see how that could possibly enhance some Asian cuisines if you're Jooksing like me. It would work on many savoury dim sums - especially panfried and deep fried items.  I can SEE how ranch could work on, say, green onion pancakes (a Shanghainese/northern Chinese cuisine).  I probably wouldn't put it on rice, but it COULD work.  Mayo is often used in some modern Asian cuisines (Kewpie (spelling?) mayo for Japanese food, for example) and mayo is synonymous to salad dressing for some Hong Kongers.  For South Asian food, I COULD see why some people may want to dip, say, samosas in mayo or ranch.  You may say it isn't proper, but dipping arancini in ranch isn't proper either.  The whole point is to enhance/make better to some people.  And if you hate ranch, you're going to find it gross on EVERYTHING.  I think ranch works LESS well with steamed/boiled dumplings, OR, say, pastas if you're going to stick with European cuisine.  

Substitute ranch with cheese, and you'll have me in the game.  And if you want me to insult/bastardize/appropriate my own culture (Chinese), I guess I can always bring up my cheddar-centred mooncakes!!!  YUMMY!!!!! 

[PumpkinPK]

3 hours ago, PRgal said:

I'd say that's all relative.  I don't like ranch, but I can see how that could possibly enhance some Asian cuisines if you're Jooksing like me. It would work on many savoury dim sums - especially panfried and deep fried items.  I can SEE how ranch could work on, say, green onion pancakes (a Shanghainese/northern Chinese cuisine).  I probably wouldn't put it on rice, but it COULD work.  Mayo is often used in some modern Asian cuisines (Kewpie (spelling?) mayo for Japanese food, for example) and mayo is synonymous to salad dressing for some Hong Kongers.  For South Asian food, I COULD see why some people may want to dip, say, samosas in mayo or ranch.  You may say it isn't proper, but dipping arancini in ranch isn't proper either.  The whole point is to enhance/make better to some people.  And if you hate ranch, you're going to find it gross on EVERYTHING.  I think ranch works LESS well with steamed/boiled dumplings, OR, say, pastas if you're going to stick with European cuisine.  

Substitute ranch with cheese, and you'll have me in the game.  And if you want me to insult/bastardize/appropriate my own culture (Chinese), I guess I can always bring up my cheddar-centred mooncakes!!!  YUMMY!!!!! 

You now, now that you mention it, when I went to the huge Japanese market, I remember seeing a huge mayo section.  I was looking at it for awhile because (like so many things in that market) the bottles were adorable!  Mostly darling super-cute animal character drawings.  But I did wonder, "Why so much mayo?"  

I guess my post came across very poorly and I spoke in too familiar a tone, like I would with friends.  With those I know, it is the beginning of a conversation.  I didn't know it wouldn't be taken that way here.  I don't think anything is improper, and yes of course everything is relative.  I was merely stating my experience.  (Though personally, those yummy irresistible scallion pancakes in ranch horrifies me, lol and no offense intended).

Thank you for sharing your food culture!  I have a very dear Cantonese friend.  I will have to ask her what her thoughts are about mayo/ranch on her native cuisine (which is so delicious, and not anything like I have seen anywhere but our enormous Chinatown).

[DebbieM4]

On 3/13/2019 at 8:20 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I've spent my fair share of time in waiting rooms, along with other families, awaiting loved ones who are in surgery and it was NOTHING like that. People are considerate, nervous, but, kind. I'm talking serious cardiac waiting rooms where people are having heart transplants and quadruple bypasses, code blues, being called.....and yet no one felt compelled to VERBALLY abuse anyone.  That's how I see it.  The way they treat Miguel is abusive, imo.  And, so is Rebecca for condoning it. Shame on them. 

I've also spent long periods of time in hospital waiting rooms with family- for various reasons, including 2 that were quite serious and resulted in family members not surviving.  And I've never seen anyone behave the way the Pearsons did.  Not us, not any other families.  It was exactly as you said - considerate, nervous, but kind.  Crying sometimes, but no screaming at each other, no dredging up childhood issues from the past, no little side dramas going on.  And always consideration for the other people there.  We tried to make things easier for each other by alternately hugging, distracting, taking a walk, etc.  It never crossed my mind to take over a waiting room and scream at my siblings or feel that someone out of our immediate circle didn't belong there.  Our focus was on the reason we were there, and everything else was pushed aside.  The Pearsons acted like immature, selfish assholes, not in a way that is typical of families in that situation.  And certainly not acceptable or excusable.

On 3/13/2019 at 8:55 PM, buckboard said:

There is a difference between acting perfectly and acting mean and boorishly.  I've spent time in hospital waiting rooms with large numbers of family members -- although we didn't ALL sit there for 48 hours straight.  Some left to eat and sleep and were only a phone call away.  We, like the Pearsons, had no idea how long this would go on or how serious it might be.  Originally, they were just planning on medicating Kate to delay her giving birth. 

 It is NOT true that many, if not most families behave like the Pearsons.  Most families recognize that they are sharing the waiting room with other stressed out families.   Most families don't yell and scream at each other in public.  They might even talk to each other, like Rebecca did when she congratulated the new grandmother.  

Even if the family was in fact "circling the wagons" against strangers during this crisis, Madison was no stranger.  In the past year she spent more time with Kate than any Pearson and in fact had been asked by the mother-to-be to be with her when the baby was born.  
 

Agreed.  I've never seen a family behave like that in a hospital waiting room.  There's actually more consideration for other people in that situation than there is most places.  It's often somewhat of a shared experience with strangers  Unfortunately, I've been in that situation several times, and many times there's a genuine reaching out and bonding.  But even when not, it's certainly not common for a family to take over a waiting room and use it for their own private primal screaming session.

For one thing, hospital staff wouldn't tolerate that kind of disruptive behavior.  And for another, people are generally too worried and too focused on their loved one to care about much else.  Petty stuff (and in that situation everything is pretty much petty stuff), doesn't matter.  I thought most of this episode was boring.  And extremely unrealistic.

[DebbieM4]

On 3/13/2019 at 11:26 PM, Crs97 said:

But would lemon flavor count?  I was thinking more of dipping a lemon slice into chocolate or ranch.  Maybe I don’t fully understand Miguel’s game, but I appreciated the distraction.

 I have a recipe for Chocolate Lemon Slices.  And chocolate-covered lemon peel is delicious!  I think chocolate goes well with all fruit.

On 3/14/2019 at 12:48 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

There’s nothing that indicated to me that Rebecca thinks Kate needs help with the baby because of her size. I think she wanted to be near what may be her last grandchild and then finding out that Kate went into labor so early really pushed Rebecca into wanting to be there to help take care of both her daughter and her preemie grandson. Taking care of a full term newborn is exhausting but Kate will be going back and forth to the hospital every single day for weeks or even months which will be emotionally and physically draining. She is going to need all the support and assistance she can get and Rebecca has no reason not to go to California.

Agreed.  I also don't think it's that unusual for grandparents to move closer to new grandchildren no matter the size of the new mother or the health issues of the baby.  A friend of mine and her husband recently moved from NYC to San Francisco so they can help take care of their perfectly healthy grandson, and it wasn't the first time I've heard of people doing that.   I didn't think twice when Miguel said they were thinking about moving, and I didn't think it had anything at all to do with Kate's size.

[DebbieM4]

On 3/14/2019 at 11:34 PM, Dreamboat Annie said:

That's what hospital lobbies are for.  Not waiting rooms. 

I disagree.  This didn't seem to be a private waiting room.  It appeared to be open to anyone.  

We also don't know the situation.  She might not have been on her way out - It seemed to me that she was just going to be there for a short while, needed to make a couple of phone calls, and then would go back to see her grandchild/daughter.  But even if she was headed out, the lobby might have been a long distance away.  In a big hospital, it could be quite a trek.  She might have wanted to sit for a little while.  I don't see anything wrong with that.  I've never been in a hospital that had rules about general waiting rooms such as the one the Pearsons were in.  She just had a new grandchild.  And she sat there.  Not a big deal at all, IMO.  

Edited March 19, 2019 by DebbieM4

[DebbieM4]

On 3/15/2019 at 9:22 PM, buckboard said:

There are dozens of reasons why the grandmother was still in the waiting room.  I don't understand why you think it's bad writing to have someone other than the Pearsons in the waiting room.  I'm surprised there weren't MORE expectant families.

The nurses and doctor had to hold their tongue, so SOMEONE had to be there to react to the Pearson's bad behavior.

 So she could wait for her granddaughter to get some sleep after the delivery before going in to see her.  So she didn't have to drive home and come back in two hours.  So her other children could drive in from Bakersfield and take her home.  Because she was too tired after being up all night to drive herself home.  Because she's from San Francisco and she was visiting her daughter and no one is at her daughter's home right now, so she's staying put until someone goes home.  

Great post!  I was just about to add to my previous post that it was surprising there weren't other non-Pearsons there too.   I didn't see the need for any explanation as to why the Pretzel Lady was there.   It's a waiting room, and it's to be expected that there will be other people sitting there from time to time, and some for quite awhile.

[MamaBird]

On 3/16/2019 at 8:14 AM, PumpkinPK said:

Eta:  Thinking about now, I wonder if I could get a State ID with the name Baby on it?

If you do, you can flash it if anyone ever tries to put you in a corner.

[nkotb]

48 minutes ago, MamaBird said:

If you do, you can flash it if anyone ever tries to put you in a corner.

O...M...G...this is the best response I've ever heard in my life! Miguel should make a new game, insert Dirty Dancing into every conversation. Just try to find a conversation that a Dirty Dancing quote can't improve!

[Dowel Jones]

On 3/16/2019 at 10:27 AM, Crs97 said:

I knew a man many moons ago who had the legal name R. O.

Johnny Cash's birth certificate shows JR Cash, as named by his father Ray.  He adopted Johnny later on, probably for similar reasons as you put.  Or so I've read.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 3/18/2019 at 11:38 PM, DebbieM4 said:

I was just about to add to my previous post that it was surprising there weren't other non-Pearsons there too.   I didn't see the need for any explanation as to why the Pretzel Lady was there.   It's a waiting room, and it's to be expected that there will be other people sitting there from time to time, and some for quite awhile.

I figured the reason that there weren't a lot of other people in the waiting room was that it was 4am and most other people visiting their families had gone home to sleep.

ITA that waiting rooms are for waiting and that's why it's normal to see people sitting there for anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours. I don't need any explanation about why Pretzel Grandma was there after her grandbaby was born. It could have been anything from letting the family have a few minutes alone or the nurse asking all the visitors to clear out for half an hour to the mom taking a nap or trying to breastfeed for the first time.

Or hell, maybe Pretzel Grandma has a family like the Pearsons and just wanted to get away from them for a few minutes. We saw that she was on the phone and then opened a bag of pretzels so maybe she just needed to make a phone call and have a snack. People wander in and out of waiting rooms at all hours for lots of different reasons so I didn't feel the need for the exposition fairy to have Pretzel Grandma explain why she was out in the waiting room. It's a hospital so it's normal and expected that there will be people in the waiting room.

[desertflower]

On 3/13/2019 at 7:29 AM, truebluesmoky said:

The longer I think about it, the madder I get about how Madison was treated and how no one stuck up for her. She’s Kate’s best friend and main support system in LA besides Toby. She knew more about the birth plan than any of the Pearsons and was even SUPPOSED to be there for labor and delivery per said birth plan. It was a big deal for Kate to even make and trust a female friend, so her having done so should have been a clue to the Pearsons that Madison was more than an outlier and was  an integral part of Kate’s support system. I felt bad that she left at all, but I’m glad it gave her the opportunity to bring the Ruth toy. However, once she brought that back to the hospital, she should have dug in her heels and stayed and/or SOMEONE from the family should have told her to stay.

I’m a week behind and just watched this last night. I’m so mad at how they treated her! If my loved one was in the hospital and one of her friends showed up to sit and wait with me I would be deeply touched and grateful for that. It is no small thing to go sit with people who are going through something like that. And she brought some food! Kevin was drunk and stressed so his rude comment can sort of be explained, but I can’t believe that NO ONE stood up and asked her to stay. Even at the end, I thought Miguel might invite her back to see Kate, but no. Ugh. 

[SnarkySheep]

So are we to assume neither of Toby's parents give a crap about the baby?? I know this is the Pearson Hour and all, but at the very least, someone might have mentioned giving them a call...

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, SnarkySheep said:

So are we to assume neither of Toby's parents give a crap about the baby?? I know this is the Pearson Hour and all, but at the very least, someone might have mentioned giving them a call...

Toby asked Miguel to call them.

[SnarkySheep]

16 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Toby asked Miguel to call them.

Thanks, I must have missed that.

[maddie965]

Worst episode ever. Die Randall die.

My heart broke for Rebeca though. Pretty sure they're gonna give her Alzheimer's.

I'm so over this show.

Edited March 22, 2019 by maddie965

[CrystalBlue]

On 3/20/2019 at 7:51 AM, Katy M said:

Toby asked Miguel to call them.

The Damons (Toby's parents) probably don't even know who Miguel is.  Why would they want to hear about their grandchild being born from someone they don't know.  Why couldn't Toby man up for five minutes and call his Mom and Dad with the news and then tell them he'll get back to them later with an update?

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

The Damons (Toby's parents) probably don't even know who Miguel is.  Why would they want to hear about their grandchild being born from someone they don't know.  Why couldn't Toby man up for five minutes and call his Mom and Dad with the news and then tell them he'll get back to them later with an update?

Miguel said he had their number in his phone, so they obviously at least talked at the wedding.

[CrystalBlue]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

Miguel said he had their number in his phone, so they obviously at least talked at the wedding.

I remember now.  I missed that before.  Still, you meet some guy who is married into the Pearson clan at a wedding; not really the family spokesperson.  I know Miguel was just being kind and helpful, as usual.  Miguel gets treated like poo poo sometimes.

[CrystalBlue]

MIGUEL:  Hi, Mr. and Mrs. Damon?  I don't know if you'll remember me, but this is Miguel Rivas, yeah, nobody remembers my last name, but anyway, we met at Kate and Toby's wedding.  I'm calling to let you know that your grandson was just born.  Yeah, it's a boy!  He came prematurely and is in the NICU in an isolette.  I'm sure Toby will find some time later to update you.  Yes, Kate is doing OK.  Congratulations!  You have a grandson named Jack!

[Dowel Jones]

Toby's Mom:  Miguel, is that you?  Are those idiot Pearsons still fighting all the time?  You're the only sane one we have ever met.  Thanks for the news.

[ShadowFacts]

4 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

MIGUEL:  Hi, Mr. and Mrs. Damon?  I don't know if you'll remember me, but this is Miguel Rivas, yeah, nobody remembers my last name, but anyway, we met at Kate and Toby's wedding.  I'm calling to let you know that your grandson was just born.  Yeah, it's a boy!  He came prematurely and is in the NICU in an isolette.  I'm sure Toby will find some time later to update you.  Yes, Kate is doing OK.  Congratulations!  You have a grandson named Jack!

I think he'd actually have to make the awkward call twice because aren't Toby's parents divorced?  Lucky Miguel.

[CrystalBlue]

1 minute ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think he'd actually have to make the awkward call twice because aren't Toby's parents divorced?  Lucky Miguel.

Forgot that little factoid.  Let's pretend Tobe Babe's parents have gotten back together off screen and they'll be getting remarried anytime now.  😄  That way, if they show up again on the show, it won't be so awkward.  😉

[JinxyDH]

Kevin was so rude and cruel to Madison. I felt so bad for her. The woman is kind, positive, a true friend and very thoughtful. She brought donuts for everyone and Kevin chases her away. 
Also, Toby was a total douche to Miguel for no reason at all. It wasn't funny. It wasn't a joke. It was cruel.
I don't like the way the rest of the "family" just allowed Kevin to chase away Madison. They should have asked her to stay. Kate wanted her there and Madison did nothing wrong to be treated so cruelty by Kevin. Also, the "family" should have stood up for poor Miguel after Toby's needless, insensitive "joke." That was MEAN. When Toby said that "the first person Kate wanted to see is Miguel" Miguel got a look of genuine happiness only to be shot down when Toby said he was "joking." Umm... what's the joke? Beth was also a dick to Miguel for no reason when Miguel was just trying to tell her what Rebecca ate that day. The whole "family" treats Miguel like poop and Rebecca does nothing to support him.
I started off really liking everyone, but now I'm starting to dislike most of them, especially Jack who abandoned his PTSD brother who he refused to even listen to about how the death of the Vietnamese boy was an accident. And he just left him to rot in a leaky trailer and lied to his family for his whole life about Nicky's existence.

[DebbieM4]

10 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

The Damons (Toby's parents) probably don't even know who Miguel is.  Why would they want to hear about their grandchild being born from someone they don't know.  Why couldn't Toby man up for five minutes and call his Mom and Dad with the news and then tell them he'll get back to them later with an update?

Exactly.  That was awful.  It was clearly a throwaway line, but it would have been a lot better if Toby had said, "I'm going to call my parents now", and then left.  Still a throwaway line, but a lot better than having Miguel call.  They have a new grandchild!  And the situation is serious!  Why should they be included so much less than the Pearsons?  (Clearly that was a rhetorical question.)  I thought that was handled very clumsily.

[Katy M]

7 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

Exactly.  That was awful.  It was clearly a throwaway line, but it would have been a lot better if Toby had said, "I'm going to call my parents now", and then left.  Still a throwaway line, but a lot better than having Miguel call.  They have a new grandchild!  And the situation is serious!  Why should they be included so much less than the Pearsons?  (Clearly that was a rhetorical question.)  I thought that was handled very clumsily.

Do we even know if he's spoken to them since the wedding?  he wasn't too happy with them trashing Kate.  And, he seems to have had a very contentioius realationship, at least with his father, for his whole life.  Might not have wanted to deal with them when he was already under so much stress and worry.

[GodsBeloved]

14 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Do we even know if he's spoken to them since the wedding?  he wasn't too happy with them trashing Kate.  And, he seems to have had a very contentioius realationship, at least with his father, for his whole life.  Might not have wanted to deal with them when he was already under so much stress and worry.

I remember at the reception seeing Toby hugging/kissing his dad on the forehead so I don't think he's so put out with him/his parents that he'd rather have Miguel deliver the news of their grandchild.

I could sort of see asking Miguel to deliver the news because his parents might want to ask a lot of questions and he wanted to get back to Kate and Damon Jr because he wasn't in the right frame of mind to be answering possibly endless questions.

I don't have much hope that we'll get to see his parents with the newest Damon so I'll just believe Toby called them later and sent pictures LOL

[DebbieM4]

17 hours ago, Katy M said:

Do we even know if he's spoken to them since the wedding?  he wasn't too happy with them trashing Kate.  And, he seems to have had a very contentioius realationship, at least with his father, for his whole life.  Might not have wanted to deal with them when he was already under so much stress and worry.

We don't know if he has or if he hasn't.  It's basically been a non-story, but I would assume if he was now on bad terms with them, we would have heard at least a comment or two about it.  But either way, I think the way they handled it was clumsy.  He either should have mentioned something about calling his parents (he just called or was just about to), or not mention them at all.  

(I also think it's easy enough to deliver news and then say, "I have to go.  The doctor is here".  Or "They're letting us see the baby now".  Or whatever.  In that type of situation, and even when a baby is born perfectly healthy, it's very easy to keep conversations super-brief.)

[himela]

When Kate said "I want to name him Jack" I was screaming to myself "why the hell do I continue to watch this idiotic and predictable show?".

I don't know. It used to be good but even I can't take emotional conversations for 42 minutes straight.